Tamara Ghandour Show Notes Page

Tamara Ghandour was faced with a business challenge that needed the perspective of others. Focused on the outcome, Tamara was unable to generate a lot of ideas from the team members. She instead focused on rewarding the behavior of giving ideas, no matter how ridiculous the ideas were, and was able to come up with more innovative solutions.

Tamara was born in Ramat Gan, Israel, and moved to Berkely, California, when she was five. Tamara and her family moved every four years, so she grew up all over the Bay Area. She is very close with her younger sister, by four years, Naomi and her parents Adi and Anna. Yes, they still take family vacations together and talk on the phone almost daily.

As a child, Tamara was always questioning and breaking the rules. In school, if the teacher told the class that they had to always write their name on the top right of the paper, she would put it on the left. Long lines are just a reason to find another way in the door. Her parents still joke about the fact that Tamara knows there are rules out there but doesn’t believe they apply to her. That innate questioning of the rules has is part of the reason she is successful because she almost always finds an alternate way around the obstacles she faces and doesn’t buy into the bureaucracy that slows innovation and progress.

Tamara started her career in New York City in advertising on the infamous Madison avenue. From there, she went into brand strategy and innovation, where she built new products and services for Fortune 500 companies ranging from Procter and Gamble to IBM. After giving people innovative ideas for almost 20 years, Tamara realized the real impact isn’t in giving innovation but in unlocking innovation inside them. That is why she founded LaunchStreet and the Innovation Quotient Edge Assessment, pioneering a human-centered innovation method.

She’s a keynote speaker, podcaster, and author of Innovation is Everybody’s Business: How to Ignite, Scale, and Sustain Innovation for Competitive Edge. Tamara’s goal and legacy is to change the narrative around innovation from being siloed to the select, magical few to it being for everyone. Her mission is to unleash ONE MILLION plus innovators into the world, solving our biggest challenges, unearthing opportunities, and elevating happiness globally.

Tamara lives in Denver, Colorado, with her two crazy and amazing boys, Liam and Ari, and her 100lb Mastiff named Zoey.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @LaunchStreet to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“We all have the structures of innovation in our brain, and the structures for intelligence and innovation are not the same.” – Click to Tweet

“Being innovative is universal, we all do it.” – Click to Tweet

“People-first innovation scales, ignites, and sustains innovation.” – Click to Tweet

“If you understand how people innovate, the culture and the process will come out naturally.” – Click to Tweet

“Ideas that come from a birds of a feather tend to die. Ideas that come from diversity of thinking tend to thrive.” – Click to Tweet

“One of the worst things we can do in innovation is have one thing we have to fall in love with.” – Click to Tweet

“If we give ourselves a little bit of permission, we’ll get to an incredible amount of quantity of ideas.” – Click to Tweet

“Innovation first, judging later.” – Click to Tweet

“If you want innovation, you got to figure out the behaviors that are going to get you there. The outcomes are going to happen no matter what.” – Click to Tweet

“Figure out who you are and do it on purpose.” – Click to Tweet

“Innovation is survival. We don’t have a choice.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Tamara was faced with a business challenge that needed the perspective of others. Focused on the outcome, Tamara was unable to generate a lot of ideas from the team members. She instead focused on rewarding the behavior of giving ideas, no matter how ridiculous the ideas were, and was able to come up with more innovative solutions.

Advice for others

Be confident and be willing to take more risk.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

Mental energy and staying focused.

Best Leadership Advice

Tap the power of the diversity on your team. Don’t try to make them be like you.

Secret to Success

I don’t strictly follow the rules.

Best tools in business or life

Basecamp. It helps us stay connected and organized.

Recommended Reading

Innovation is Everybody’s Business: How to Ignite, Scale, and Sustain Innovation for Competitive Edge

The Big Leap: Conquer Your Hidden Fear and Take Life to the Next Level

Contacting Tamara Ghandour

Twitter: https://twitter.com/LaunchStreet

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/innovationtamaraghandour/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EverydayInnovatorsLaunchStreet/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/everyday_innovators

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/LaunchStreetTV

Website: https://www.gotolaunchstreet.com/

Resources

IQE Assessment: https://www.gotolaunchstreet.com/innovation-training-programs/whats-your-innovation-type/

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

Unedited Transcript

Jim Rembach (00:00):

Okay fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who is really gonna give us some tactical capabilities into doing something that we all need to do, especially now more than ever. Tamara Ghandour was born in Remont GaN Israel and moved to Berkeley, California when she was five tomorrow and her family moved every four years. So she grew up all over the Bay area. She is very close to her younger sister by four years. Naomi and her parents, ADI and Ana. Yes. They still take family vacations together and talk on the phone almost daily as a child. Tomorrow was always questioning and breaking the rules in school. If the teacher told her, uh, in the class that she always had to write her name at the right side of the top of the paper, she, she’d put it on the left. Long lines are just a reason to find another way in the door.

Jim Rembach (00:50):

Her parents still joke about the fact that tomorrow knows there are rules out there, but doesn’t believe they applied to her. That in a questioning of the rules is part of the reason she is successful because she almost always finds an alternate alternate way around the obstacles she faces and doesn’t buy into the bureaucracy that slows innovation and progress. Tamara started her career in New York city in advertising on the infinite miss Madison Avenue. From there, she went into brand strategy and innovation where she built new products and services for fortune 500 companies ranging from Proctor and gamble to IBM after giving people innovative ideas for almost 20 years tomorrow. Realize the real impact isn’t in giving innovation, but in unlocking innovation inside them. That is why she founded launch streak and the innovation quotient quotion edge assessment, pioneering a human centered innovation method. She’s a keynote speaker, podcaster, and author of innovation is everybody’s business. How to ignite, scale, and sustain innovation for competitive edge. Tomorrow’s goal and legacy is to change the narrative around innovation from being siloed to the select magical few to it being for everyone. For mission is to unleash 1 million plus innovators into the world. Solving our biggest challenges, unearthing opportunities and elevating happiness globally. Tomorrow lives in Denver, Colorado with our two crazy and amazing boys, Liam and Ari and her hundred pound Mastiffs Zoe, Tamara Ghandour. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Tamara Ghandour (02:22):

I am so ready. Today is the perfect day to be having this conversation.

Jim Rembach (02:26):

Oh, it’s definitely now I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you talk with your current passion is so that we can get to know you even [inaudible]

Tamara Ghandour (02:34):

even better. Yeah. Well, do you want a personal or professional or both? Both. Okay. So I’ll give you the personal first cause it’s in the background, whether I like it or not, cause we’re all working from home right now and my little nook is by my other area. But, um, I have a huge passion for fitness, not just because I’m one of those crazy fit nuts. I love CrossFit. I love Peloton. Not some of my back, but I’m also, because it helps keep me sane and keeps the energy going and gives me, I think helps me have the energy I need to do all the things I want to do. Um, and that kind of leads to my next passion, my big passion in the work, which is really unlocking human potential. So we all have this ability to innovate, but we have been trained out of, or taught not to innovate, that it’s not for us in our work, in research over dozens of years has shown the opposite to be true. Um, so I’m really passionate about getting out there and helping people realize that potential.

Jim Rembach (03:31):

Well, and with that you talk about a lot of myths and this information about creative thinking, which is really that foundational element, innovation and innovation in our society. Um, and a lot of people will say, well, I’m just not creative. Right? And we know that’s just not true. Yes. But if you could please share the fast leader Legion, some of the common myths that we must bust.

Tamara Ghandour (03:52):

Yeah. So I call them the traps of certainty because they’re the things that we have bought into but are actually completely, not only untrue, but they have a detrimental side effect and that they sabotage our own ability to innovate as individuals, as leaders and as teams. So the first one is, and you kind of alluded to it, it’s for certain people and Jim, you know that guy, right? It’s the guy with the blue streak in his hair and the funky glasses and like he’s the innovative one, but not me. I just do my job or you know, look at software all day. And that’s totally untrue. And I think in doing that, we limit our own ability because we abdicate that to somebody else. So that’s the first one. The second one is it’s for certain times only and that time is usually a 3:00 PM brainstorm with a scented marker and a blank easel pad.

Tamara Ghandour (04:41):

And if you’ve been in those meetings and someone warms you up without a horrible question of like, if you could have dinner with anyone living or dead, who would it be? And then you’re supposed to launch into ideas, right? And the reality is like that’s great to get together, but the best innovation happens when we’re actually doing the work and our sleeves are rolled up and we’re in it. It’s actually not in the conference room. And don’t get me wrong, I love scented markers. There’s so much fun. I love them at every workshop that we do. But that’s not the only time innovation happens. Um, the third one is that it’s for certain segments, meaning

Tamara Ghandour (05:12):

it’s the R and D team, the marketing team, right? Cause they’re the ones who have permission to innovate, but not for the rest of us. And the forest myth is it’s certain outcomes, meaning it’s like it has to be the latest and greatest disruptive technology and breakthrough thing to be considered innovative or innovation. And I will tell you that time and time again, what I am constantly in awe of is the clients who I work with who are none of the above, right? They’re not the innovation team. They are not putting out something like wildly disruptive into the marketplace. But the innovation they created, what they unlock in themselves is way more powerful and has just as much impact on business. So when you think about those traps, traps of certainty, I think they matter because number one, we, we squelch our own ability to innovate. And number two, we then accidentally set up cultures that don’t allow others to innovate. So if we’re, whether we’re frontline staff or leaders, we accidentally create this environment that actually doesn’t support us

Jim Rembach (06:15):

well. And so ultimately what you’re talking about here, and this goes back to what I was reading in your bio, is that all of us have the opportunity and we need to be very intentional, intentional about improving our IQ E so please share with us what IQ is and what that entails.

Tamara Ghandour (06:32):

Yeah. And can I give you a little bit of science? So it kind of, it makes sense of how it all works together. So over 25 years we dug into the neuroscience, behavioral psychology, like all of that behind it, as well as our work and experience to understand how we as humans innovate. Um, and it started for a lot of reasons. And interestingly enough, one, one of the reasons is because someone came up to me after a conference where I was speaking and said, God, tomorrow, that’s all great. What you share that Southwest airlines does this and Google does that, right? But what am I supposed to do with that? And in my head I’m thinking, well, you’re innovative, right? So that’s what you do. But it was in that moment that I realized, Oh, wait a minute, we need a test and assessment that helps us actually see how we innovate in real life.

Tamara Ghandour (07:16):

So I used to believe like everybody else that, you know, in order to be innovative, you had to step outside your comfort zone and dare to be fearless, right? That’s what made you innovative. And I used to think it was like this left or right brain thing. So either I was, you know, in the zone and being innovative and that was a cool task, or I was doing my to do list, but the two shall not meet. Um, and what research came to help me understand was that I was totally wrong. So basically the awesome part is we all have the structures of innovation in our brain. And in fact, the structures for intelligence and innovation are not the same. And that’s awesome for people like me who are not book smart because one doesn’t rely on the other. So intelligence is super highways in your brain and novation is loose side roads across your brain.

Tamara Ghandour (08:04):

And the beauty is we all have it. But as you alluded to in the intro, a lot of us have been trained out of using it and the brain actually works like a muscle while it’s not technically one. So the more you use it, the more intentional you are, the stronger it gets. So the real difference between someone who’s innovative and wouldn’t consider themselves innovative isn’t truly if they’re innovative or not. It is how much they’re using it. So what we came to realize in all this research is that it’s not, if it’s how it being innovative as universal, we all do it. However, how we do it is unique to each of us. And there’s actually nine styles of innovation and we call them triggers actually because they unlock and activate that part in your brain. And all of us have this unique, really cool combination of power triggers to power triggers and a dormant trigger and our two power triggers.

Tamara Ghandour (08:52):

If we tap into that intentionally, that’s wellspring of innovation. That’s where we provide tremendous value and have a stronger voice in the world. That’s where we find those innovative solutions. And I think what’s really exciting about that finding in that research is a, we can all do it, right? All of us have it. We just got to figure out which ones are right for us. So we’re actually doing it in a way that works for us and when we unlock it, we can apply it to anything. So we don’t need to wait for the 3:00 PM brainstorm or that super sticky challenge. You can apply that innovative mindset to everything.

Jim Rembach (09:26):

Well, and as you’re talking, I started thinking about and why we’re, why we’re talking about this, the need that at all levels, like even say it’s everybody’s business at all levels frontline, all the way up to the top is that all of us need to improve our skills and abilities in this. And there’s, you’re creating that culture is an important part like you had talked about, but really being very intentional about the overall skill development and, and building, you know, those side roads, paving those side roads to have everybody use them. But you know, you often talk about, um, you know, really how all of these work in concert with one another. Uh, because oftentimes I say, okay, if we’re talking about collaborative, experimental, fluid, futuristic, imaginative, inquisitive, and instinctual risk taking and tweaker which are the nine, um, I’ll say, Hey, which ones are most important? But really you talk about a wheel of embrace innovation. So explain that.

Tamara Ghandour (10:20):

Yeah. So let me back up for one second before we get to the wheel and then I’ll explain all of that. So, um, let me just say, cause you made a really important point when you said that it’s about the skill development. Like you know, the culture matters, but actually it started with the skill. So what we’ve seen, I think you’ve seen in your work too from our kind of pre-conversation is that people first innovation is how you actually scale, ignite and sustain innovation. Um, we get a lot of calls from clients who say, uh, so we had just spent a lot of time and money implementing the latest innovation process tool, right? Fill in the blank. Whatever it is, doesn’t even matter which one it is and they’re good. It’s not that they’re not good, but by the time they call me, they’re frustrated because their people aren’t doing it and they’re not doing it for two reasons.

Tamara Ghandour (11:02):

One is square peg, round hole. That process may or may not work for them or they haven’t found the tool in the process. It does. But the other thing is if your people don’t believe that they’re innovative, why are they going to use your innovative tool is just initiative fatigue. It’s like another process. I have to follow. And when we do these innovation audits, we find that with teams in the front lines who go, well, they mandated this, we do this new process and now I’m like, I’ve got another box to check. Are you kidding me? Like is that what you find too? It’s so frustrating.

Jim Rembach (11:32):

Most definitely because, well, that’s the whole, I mean, when we, when we, there’s been all lot of research as far as change and when what changed works and, and, and anytime it’s, you know, that top down like you’re talking about, I mean, you’re doomed.

Tamara Ghandour (11:46):

So doomed. And you know, the, the reality is we, we should be investing in the skills of our people, the culture in the process. If you understand how your people innovate and more importantly, they understand it, the culture of the process will actually come out of it more naturally. Um, and I think the key is right. So I’m an experiential risk takers, so we’re tell us, kind of move over to the wheel. So that’s my two power triggers and my dorm. It is collaborative. So what that means for me is the way I innovate the risk taker in me. I innovate in the uncomfortable. I need to leap and be in that place. And when I am, I thrive. Like not everybody does. But for me that leaping really works right? I am really good at being in that unknown place and because of that I tend to drive bold innovation.

Tamara Ghandour (12:31):

I tend to be able to move forward when other people get stuck. The experiential innovator in me is all about innovation in motion. So I have to get it out of my head and onto paper. The reason that matters to go to the wheel is if I understand that about me and Jimmy, you understand that you actually are an instinctual tweaker. So you’re all about connecting dots and new and different ways and kind of circuitous patterns and the tweakers all about editing and evolving. We actually together create stronger innovation for a couple reasons. One is you and I know how to leverage each other. I understand you. You understand me? So I’m not thinking, and I’ve made this mistake by the way. I’m not thinking, why isn’t Jim just fricking leap and do it? Like why doesn’t he just get on it? Well, cause that’s not how you innovate.

Tamara Ghandour (13:18):

So you’re going to do it in different ways. And I’m like, why is he always mentioning these random stories and connecting them to what we’re talking about? Well that’s because that’s how you innovate. So when I look at teams, what I try to understand is do they have a somewhat balanced wheel of all the different, different styles of innovators? Because when you do, you create incredibly strong thinking. You tap the power of the diversity of thinking. The reality is ideas that come from a birds of a feather tend to die, right? Ideas have come from diversity of thinking tend to thrive. But it comes, when you think about that, it’s not just checking off the boxes of who you have. It goes back to exactly what you were talking about, which is understanding your people and how they do their best and how they contribute.

Jim Rembach (14:01):

You know, as you’re talking, I start thinking about that child. I mean, think about it from this perspective. Um, is that that young child that is not captured, uh, the vocabulary yet, they know what they want but they can’t verbalize it. And so for me, when I start thinking about these skills and all of what you’re talking about, I think one of our frustrations with the ability to creative athlete and really think and innovate is that we’re unable to, to understand this in scope as well as stress. You know, how do we apply it? And so therefore it just comes out as frustration just to keep it.

Tamara Ghandour (14:43):

And when they do it differently, we don’t recognize it as innovation. That’s the other, and I have without a doubt in my early years fallen into that when they didn’t present it to me in or do it in a way that I, I recognize as innovation in my brain. I get even more frustrated. Cause I’m like, well, why don’t you just do it the way this is how I would do it. Um, and what our research and what all this, the IQ we understanding that really helps us realize is how to recognize that and have that it’s a common language. Right. And a communication that you can have. Um, and, and I think, you know, you had mentioned earlier, I’m going to take a little bit of a tangent. I think it relates about like, change is hard a lot in our book and innovations, everybody’s business, we dedicate a lot of time to understanding our primal brain and our reticular activating system because it really is important to not just understand that your team innovate, but understand us ourselves and why sometimes we have this innovative tool. We also sometimes resisted on the subconscious level and don’t even realize,

Jim Rembach (15:44):

yeah, so what we can for me and we see that into when we flip it into it’s, it’s not that I, you know, uh, won’t do it. I see. I can’t do it. Tempted. Yeah. Very different. Okay. So when you, you know, when you start talking about, um, you know, there’s actually multiple paths and pathways and viewpoints that we need to take or when we innovate. And you talk about five, uh, me first of all, this framework that you have, this system that you have, the IQ, he, I, I mean to me I think it brings this so much closer to reality for everybody. You know, you talk about everybody’s business, you have the ability to make that happen. And I really appreciate your work. I want to make sure I get that out. Um, but you talk about these five things that we have to look at. If you could please talk about those and why that’s important.

Tamara Ghandour (16:35):

So, and let me preface this by with a story and tell you that, um, this is an exercise I often do with clients and I have a client. Uh, there’s a visual that goes with it. And I had a client that emailed me, I don’t know, three months later, excuse me, and said, I just want you to let you let you know tomorrow. I kept that PowerPoint slide where you had the visual, this exercise on the wall of my office. Oh my God. Excuse me. I have this visual on the, on my wall in my office because I just want to always be reminded to look more than one way. So the challenge we face and we’ve all been there, is we want to solve a problem. We want to find an opportunity, whatever it is, and we take one path, right? One lane. The reality is that leads to one answer.

Tamara Ghandour (17:18):

And I think I know you’re really big on that kind of divergent thinking and then bringing it back. That’s what this allows us to do. So let me talk a little bit about them. Um, and one of them’s actually surprising, which I love. So there’s like, let’s use an example. Um, let’s use a bottle of water as our example. So we’ve got a problem. We need, we need to, um, create new products for this bottle of water to be in the marketplace. So the first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to improve that bottle of water, right? What could we do to make it better? Um, maybe it is self controlled temperature or maybe it has a no spill lid, right? Like something that’s just an incremental improvement. So we’re going to get all that captured. Then we’re going to move to create meaning.

Tamara Ghandour (18:02):

What else could we do with that bottle of water if it wasn’t for drinking? What else could we do? Uh, we could water plants, we could use it as a prism through the window and the sun comes in. I’m making this up as I go. So some of them might sound a little weird, but you get the point, right? So now we’ve got improved ideas. We’ve got create ideas. Now we’re going to go to transform. Meaning what else could be a bottle of water if you didn’t have your structure? What else could do that? A wine bottle could act as that. I’m a spoon. I’m like, so now you’re bringing those ideas and then we’re going to, where am I? I’m on. We’re on on the fifth one, right? Yes. Um, Oh, disrupt. So wild. Yeah. So that’s like, what is the wildest, craziest possible thing you could do with this bottle of water?

Tamara Ghandour (18:48):

Right? Um, it could have, uh, it could have some kind of thing in it where you turn it upside down. It never, ever, ever spills. Like it is the safest bottle out there. It can go to space. It’s got space, dust inside of it. It’s amazing. The last one, and this is the one that surprises people is make it worse. And here’s why. So let’s say we made a ball of water worse. Well, what would we do? The water would be dirty, right? Like if something that we couldn’t drink, it would have toxins in it. Um, it would have holes in the bottom, but then you say, okay, well now that it’s worse, what would I do with it? Oh, that would be an amazing waterfall structure. I could use that to water my plants. I could actually grow strawberries with a drip system in my yard.

Tamara Ghandour (19:29):

So that is kind of a wild example across. But the point of all that is is now I’m not just down one lane, but I’ve gone down five different lanes and I’ve got a wealth of ideas. And what we find with clients is when they do this, it allows them to then pull the best of the best. So one of the worst things we can do in innovation when we’re trying to come up with some new solution idea and whether that’s for internal workflow or a product or service is have one thing that we have to fall in love with, right? We want 50, we want a hundred, we want quantity first and then quality. The beauty is now I’m like, all right, I’m going to take a piece of this, I’m going to take a little bit of this, no spill, a little bit of this tighter cap over here and a little bit of this, um, water changing colors over here, put them together and have an even better idea.

Tamara Ghandour (20:12):

So I’ve seen it time and time again. And on top of that, the last thing I’ll say about it is as you can probably already guess, the improve exercise really gets the tweakers out because they’re like, Oh, I know how to do that. The disrupt the people who are imaginative, who planned the gaps, it really resonates with them. So not only you’re going down multiple paths but you’re tapping all the different types of people in the room or yourself too. So this is the thing where you talk about even in positive psychology, they talk about being able to be matched up with unlikely pairs to be be able to

Jim Rembach (20:47):

bring out those different perspectives and you have to do it in an environment that’s safe. That’s part of the culture. And I don’t want to go down that path. I mean, because I think your foundational elements that we’re talking about here are more important. Those other things can be communicated by anybody who’s doing the type of work you’re doing. I mean, I think what you have is so unique and you talked about the whole divergent and convergent thinking thing and those who’ve actually been on listen to the fast leader Legion, um, uh, that they’ve heard me talk about that a lot. But I, I like the way that you put it because you, I mean it’s just really simple layman’s terms. It’s that you have to separate the activities of creation and innovation from the analysis. And that’s to me, I think you and I had talked before we got on the show and I think that’s where 99% of failure happens. It’s right there.

Tamara Ghandour (21:35):

Totally. Yeah, it’s right at. So here’s what happens. We try to judge as we try to innovate and the minute we do that, we shut ourselves down. Right? We’re not giving ourselves permission. It sounds too crazy. That little primal lizard brain on your shoulder, you know, speaks up and is like, don’t do it. That’s not a good idea. There’s a reason that’s never been done. Right. So I call mine Bernard, by the way. I like to name him because then I can talk to him. And be like, get away Bernard. Not today, but, but that’s what happens. So here’s the deal. Our brain actually, and I talked to some neuroscientists about this, our brain cannot innovate and analyze or judge at the same time and wa yeah, it’s impossible. And that’s why we end up with this kind of BS, incremental results when we try to innovate.

Tamara Ghandour (22:23):

But here’s the thing, it’s actually really easy to get over this hurdle. So let me just share one simple way that you could do by yourself with a team in 10 minutes, in five hours. It is so easy. All you have to do, say to yourself or the group, Hey guys, let’s say we have an hour. Hey guys, we’re going to spend 40 minutes being wild and free. We’re just, we’re going to innovate. I’m not saying we’re getting rid of our realities that we face, but we’re just gonna. Anything goes, no judgment. We’re getting it all out there. Then we’re going to spend the last 20 minutes analyzing, voting, assessing, and figuring it out. It does two things. One is it puts people at ease, right? Gives them permission to be more innovative, but it also shuts down the primal brain, which is over there wanting to judge and keep you safe and shut you down because that little Bernard on my shoulder goes, Oh, okay, we’re going to get to that.

Tamara Ghandour (23:11):

I’m not going to worry now. I’m not going to judge too much now. I’ll worry about that. It’ll the last 20 minutes. So it gives us an incredible permission. But it’s fascinating to me because you’ll hear it all the time, right? I’m sure you see it. People go, well, what if we did this? Nevermind. That’s actually, now that I say that out loud, it’s horrible and you’re thinking, well, hold on. There’s a nugget there. Like let’s, it may not be the right idea and not every idea is the right idea, but let’s explore that. But people get shut themselves down. It’s incredible. And I used to do it too, like I get it, but I think the research shows that if we just give ourselves a little bit of permission, we’ll get to an incredible amount of quantity. There was this really interesting study I recently read about, about a photography class.

Tamara Ghandour (23:49):

Have you seen this? So it’s really cool. So the professor, um, split the class in half, half the class got graded on quantity, like just number of photos submitted, the other half got graded on quality, the perfect photo. So as you can imagine, the group that was given, the quantity came, came up with the most brilliant photos actually got higher grades than the ones that were super worried about the right photo, right? Cause they were analyzing and judging all the time where this group was free to experiment and play and test. So quantity first, innovation first, judging later, you know, talking about game of fire and game gamification of this whole process. You even talk about, you know, playing around with words, having word games. Tell us a little bit about that. So this is why I’d say one of our, um, our communities and everyday innovators as we call them, cause for us, right, it’s everyday people like you and me.

Tamara Ghandour (24:43):

It’s not just the Steve jobs. In fact, I’ll just tell you in the book, we don’t even talk about Steve jobs. Elon Musk, like I referenced them to say that I’m not talking about them and that’s it because they’re amazing. They’re genius, but they’re not us. I want us to have innovation. So here’s the beauty of word games and it it’s the same. Um, it has the same kind of philosophy as the look always. We were just talking about here’s what happens. So Jim, give me a, give me a challenge to solve. Like just give me a question like how do I whatever, like something you, our listeners would be thinking about how do I move to remote, how do I move from, okay, something we are all thinking about right now and hopefully we can have a chance to talk about innovation and crisis because we are all on lockdown in the middle level.

Tamara Ghandour (25:29):

I’m, I’m, how do I move to remote? So great question. Here’s the thing though, if that’s the only question we try to answer again, we’re going to go down one path and answer it one way. So I like to play Madlibs with the questions I asked and I like to answer all the questions. So instead of how do I move to remote, I might say, how do I leverage remote? That takes me to a whole different path of thinking, right? Again, it opens up that lens to give you more ideas and more thinking. How do I minimize remote? Like you can flip it in a lot of different ways. What we find is that when we do that right, we expand our thinking so much. I mean we always start, um, a little narrow and that’s okay, right? That’s human nature. And then we go expanding span.

Tamara Ghandour (26:18):

And I think it is unrealistic to think that we’re going to suddenly leap into the disruptive solution, right? We’ve got to start here and work our way out and that’s okay. Um, but playing word games, simple Madlibs can give you whole new ways of thinking about things and all you have to do is change one, maybe two words in a sentence. And you get there because you know, the thing I always found frustrating is innovation experts would say, you know, your, your solutions are only good as your questions. And I was in the audience like, well what questions am I supposed to ask? Like how am I su