Unedited Transcript

Jim Rembach (00:00):

Okay, fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who takes something that is extremely complex and has a whole lot of insight around it and makes it hopefully easier to navigate, especially for those new and emerging leaders, Peter economy, as a best selling business writer who has helped create more than 100 books. The son of an air force officer Peter was born at Hamilton air force base across the golden gate bridge from San Francisco. And he moved with his family back and forth across the country, every four or five years as a result, he was raised in Northern California, Southern California, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, graduating from high school dead center in the middle of Georgia. His father was a project manager for the YouTube and [inaudible] spy planes for many years. His mother’s family roots in the United States go back to the Mayflower.

Jim Rembach (00:54):

And one of his ancestors is Richard Warren. One of the signers of the Mayflower compact while uncertain, why he fell into the vocation of writing. It may have had something to do with his father’s example and perhaps his DNA. He was a seven time winner of the freedoms foundation. George Washington honor metal for essays. He wrote about freedom and the American spirit. He was also a great speaker, which Peter is not after graduating from college in Northern California. He was hired by the department of Navy as a purchasing agent at the Washington Navy yard in Washington, D C there, he mostly bought office supplies and he also bought scuba gear for the Naval Naval diving school, uh, orthodontics supplies for the Naval Academy, a swimming pool cover for camp David, China dishes and crystal glassware for the vice president’s home at the Naval observatory. After a couple of years there, he left for a position negotiating contracts for the defense nuclear agency in Alexandria, Virginia.

Jim Rembach (01:54):

His orientation for that job involve traveling to the Nevada test site to tour still radioactive nuclear bomb testing areas and crawling through a tunnel to within a hundred or so feet from where a nuclear bomb had been detonated the week before eventually he left government service to work for a software developer, which is where he became a manager. He worked as a manager in charge of administration and facilities for several years before becoming a full time writer 20 years ago, founding his own company. And the process Peter’s current release is wait, I’m the boss, the essential guide for new managers to succeed from day one. Peter currently lives in the San Diego area with his wife, Jan of 32 years, and they have three children, Peter Skylar and Jackson, all grown up and on their own Peter economy. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? I sure am. Jim, thanks so much great to be here today. Well, I’m glad you’re here now, given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? It really is writing. I mean, loved to

Peter Economy (03:00):

write and I love collaborating with other people. I mean, that’s what I typically do is I I’m, I’m mostly a ghost writer and I just love meeting new people, getting to know what they know and getting to know them. They’re just amazing people. They see, you know, C level executives, consultants, technology, gurus, all these different

Jim Rembach (03:19):

well. And when I think about that, I mean the stories and the insights and the information that you’ve come across as quite extensive. I also I’m aware that a lot of people who write, uh, are even more so well-read. Um, and so when I start thinking about this particular topic and literally the hundreds of thousands of volumes that are associated with it, um, I find it very intriguing that you would choose and go and write this particular book and go through that path. Really what drove that?

Peter Economy (03:50):

Well, it’s just a personal passion of mine that I want managers to be good managers. I mean, I personally, when I was back in the business world myself, I had my share of bad managers and it’s something that I think everyone has experienced. Um, when you’re in business, when you’re working in a company or even a nonprofit, any other kind of organization, you’re going to encounter bad bosses. And I just thought, it’d be great to have a book that could help people be great bosses instead of bad bosses, because so few people actually get trained in how to lead, how to manage people.

Jim Rembach (04:23):

Well, I will talk about that, but in the book you had mentioned that this book is about how to be a good boss, uh, and, and potentially an effective and perhaps even great manager and leader. And so when you start thinking about that and all the experiences that you have, I start understanding and thinking about perspectives, because here’s what I mean by that. When people say boss, something comes to their mind when people say manager, something comes to their mind when people say leader something yet different comes to their mind. So give us your perspectives on those.

Peter Economy (04:56):

Yeah, well, I think in a lot of people’s minds, boss has a negative connotation. I mean, you talk about your boss and it’s sort of a negative thing, but, um, manager is kind of a neutral thing. Leader is a great thing. I mean, it’s interesting, there’s this kind of this, this, um, um, you know, spectrum from boss to manager to leader and leader is supposed to be the top thing. It’s supposed to be the top thing to aspire to. Um, but most people typically, you know, that are managers you’ve got to manage. I mean, you’ve got to learn how to manage. You’ve got to operate an organization, you’ve got to make things happen and you’ve got to be a good leader at the same time. I mean, you can’t just say I’m going to be a manager, not a leader. I’m going to be a leader, not a manager. You really have to do it all. And that’s what this book talks about. I mean, we talk about being a great leader. We also talk about how to be a manager and get things done, a great manager as well.

Jim Rembach (05:45):

Well, and I also, you know, for me when we’re talking about that whole developmental piece and, and I think it’s easy or easier to be a manager because I have systems around me that I now need to follow, but being a leader, oftentimes, you know, that complexity of humanity makes it quite difficult. But you talk about, um, after a couple of studies you referenced is that when managers receive leadership development, if received at all, um, you know, that it can come quite later after they’ve been put into the position of the role, you know, a DDI has a study that says it’s a few years after they placed. And there one study shows it’s like 10 years after they get on the role. But why do you think there is such a neglect associated with leadership development?

Peter Economy (06:29):

Yeah, it’s interesting. Cause I, I believe that the largest companies, you know, you look at your fortune 500 companies. Most of those companies have real great leadership programs in place. I mean, they know the importance of cultivating leaders, of growing leaders, um, identifying people in the organization who will become leaders potentially in their organization. And they have leadership tracks, these big companies, but it’s a smaller companies. These ones, the small businesses that really neglected the small to medium sized businesses. And I think it’s just because there’s other priorities for mostly smaller and medium sized businesses are fighting fires all the time. They’re just trying to stay afloat. They’re trying to gain new customers. They’re trying to grow the revenue. They’re trying to make, you know, get some profit out of here. So leadership training and a lot of training just overall gets set aside. And the training is often the first thing they go when there’s any kind of fiscal problem. I mean, I’ve got friends who are professional speakers and they were the first thing to be cut when there was financial trouble. Um, back in 2008, when we went through that big recession. And then now I’m in the current situation where the economy is kind of getting it in the chin. Um, all this training is getting cut. It’s the first thing to be cut. So a lot of companies just ignore it or they just have other, other priorities and then they just don’t get around to it.

Jim Rembach (07:45):

Well, and when I start thinking about it in the world that I, uh, am, I guess, responsible for, you know, um, and what I, we’re working, talking about customer experience and contact center, I started thinking about the potential impact that this neglect actually has on the customers. How do you see that coming out?

Peter Economy (08:02):

Yeah, ultimately, um, you know, when, when people aren’t happy when your people aren’t happy when your employees are, are, are not satisfied when they feel they don’t have a voice when they don’t, they don’t think their, their, their managers care about what they do, um, that bleeds over to your customers. I mean, they’re going to be on the, you know, talk about a call center. I mean, people can tell when there is someone on the line with them, who’s happy, who’s satisfied. Who’s excited about being at work. Who’s enthusiastic about their job. I mean, I I’ve, I’ve hung up on people and on call center, people who just, I could tell they were a downer. I didn’t want to talk to them. So I hung up and try it again. Cause I knew I’d get somebody else. So hopefully someone with a better attitude. Um, so when you’ve got a bad boss, when, when someone’s working for a manager, who’s not doing the job well, that bleeds over into the customer real, real quick.

Jim Rembach (08:59):

Well, you mentioned, um, one of the key downfalls is in becoming a new boss is the communication component, setting expectations and all of that. And many of us have different, well, either a default model that obviously isn’t working because the studies that you reveal shows that, um, but you introduce a new model, uh, which I really liked. And that is the model that Adam Creek, who is a Canadian, a rowing gold medal champion and the 2008 Beijing games. And he has a model that he calls clear to help set goals. So those, the clear goals are collaborative, limited emotional appreciable, and refinable. So how does this model really affect and impact and benefit the leader of today?

Peter Economy (09:49):

Well, what it, what it speaks to is that we’re in a new world today of business. Um, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, it was much more of a top down kind of a atmosphere. Um, you know, leaders, managers told people what to do for the most part. You know, you sort of said, um, I want you to go here. Here’s how I want you to do it. Now go, uh, I think, you know, today it’s much more of a collaborative process, which is what the C and that, that clear goals talks about a collaborative process, where you really work together. Um, employees, managers, you’re part of a team and, and, and you work together to achieve your goals. You don’t just boss people around. You don’t just say, do this. Here’s how high you want you to jump in. Here’s how I want you to jump. Um, you actually say it, you set the goal and then you, you allow people, you enable them, you provide them with what they need to find their way there themselves find the best path. And often your frontline employees know exactly what needs to be done. Probably a better than a lot of managers do because they’re there with their they’re in the trenches with the customers all the time. And, and that’s what this clear goal speaks to us. I think, a new way of doing business in a new way of working with your people.

Jim Rembach (11:01):

Well, and so the other one, just to kind of give the comparison, because many have heard of smart goals, it has been around for a long while, and that’s the specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and time bound. But the clear goals when I started looking at being, especially for a brand new leader, um, I start seeing also this, addressing some of the barriers that you talk about, um, and challenges that they often face, uh, when they come to being a new leader. And I’m going to read some of these that you actually list. So you talk about recruiting and retaining the best employees, dealing with employee problems, working through discipline and termination, tearing down organizational roadblocks, encouraging employees to experiment and take risks, managing a diverse workforce, and then handling, uh, office politics. But I have to ask myself, especially if I’m thinking about a new leader, they really can’t be doing well at all of those things. I mean, so how do they move forward? How do they prevent failure? Because man, look at all these things I have to contend with.

Peter Economy (12:03):

Right? Well, I think, you know, you do the best you can and you educate yourself in each of these areas. Um, you know, obviously when you are in a situation where you have to fire an employee, for example, um, you may have never done that before. Um, you know, I think one of the best things I can suggest for any, any new manager is to find a mentor, find a good mentor. So for example, most managers, I believe new managers just learn on the job just by watching other managers, how they, how they, how they work. And you’re lucky if you’ve got a good manager to model after you’re unlucky, if you’ve got a bad manager to model after, and we’ve all had good and bad, I’ve had good and bad, I’m sure you have too. And I was fortunate to have a good manager to model myself after.

Peter Economy (12:51):

So I think I learned some good habits, but I think the first thing that any new managers should do is find a good mentor. And then, and then, so when you, when you do have to do something like fire an employee, I mean, obviously you can read a book like mine and, and, and I, I lay out exactly what you should do, but also, you know, talk to your mentor and walk through it with them and get that more personal. Here’s what I did. Here’s how I handle that. When I have to fire someone, I go through these steps, I try to help them. You know, I provide them with more training if I need to, I try to, you know, support them if I can. Um, but eventually if I do have to fire them, here’s what I do. So I think you have to just kind of take it up a bite at a time. You can’t, you can’t be great at everything all at once. It’s just not possible. He can’t read a book. Even my book become great all at once. It’s not going to happen. You have to do it at a bite at a time and kind of, you know, do the best. You can find a mentor and learn lessons along the way and just learn, get better.

Jim Rembach (13:48):

Well, I mean, for me, I even found myself, um, you know, having the opportunity to go through the book and kind of, you know, even learning new things. Cause you ha you, I mean, being a writer you’re referencing and sourcing, you know, a lot of, uh, facts that often times don’t come out, you know, and, and become, you know, generalized and socialized and all of that. Uh, so I think that was very immensely valuable and I appreciate that. Um, but when I start thinking about, you know, all of this in the book, when I start thinking about those barriers that we mentioned, I also start thinking about the conditions and, you know, we had talked about the whole COVID-19 and lockdown and I mean, how has that changed? What you would have, or let me ask you this, how, what would you put in the book now, because of all this that isn’t in there.

Peter Economy (14:39):

Right. I think the most important thing, you know, when you’re in a situation where you’re in a crisis and we talked about how, and we’re talking about how more employees are working remotely now. So that’s something I didn’t really cover. I don’t think in any particular detail, which I wish I had now, because it would be a really critical part of the book, you know, here more and more people. My wife, um, you know, she works at a local university and they sent everybody home. Uh, they said, you’re going to work from home now. And they’re doing meetings on zoom. As we’re doing this call, we’re doing it on zoom. Uh, they’re working remotely. So how does her manager manage her now? How does her manager manage the team remotely? And that’s something that I think, um, if I could put that in the book, I would have put more of that in the book.

Peter Economy (15:25):

And I think the answer is, is you’ve got to communicate more. I think ma many managers don’t communicate enough as it is. And that’s something I’ve hammered on for years is that managers need to communicate and communicate more, communicate better, communicate in as many different ways as possible. So in a situation where you’re working remotely, you’ve got more employees working remotely, you should be finding all kinds of way to communicate with them, keeping everybody up to date, keeping the team together, keeping it feeling like you’re all still working together. I mean, at least a weekly, uh, zoom meeting, uh, you know, video conference weekly with the team. They sure everybody, everybody knows everybody’s still out there. What, what is everybody doing? What, you know, just keeping that team spirit alive. It’s so critical

Jim Rembach (16:11):

today. So when you’re talking and you’re saying that I started also thinking about, um, how, how would I, it’s not just the communication component, but I start thinking about all of these other elements. So when I start thinking about, you know, the dealing with the employee problems, right. Um, you know, do I have a different approach than I would have not given this scenario?

Peter Economy (16:39):

I think that everything’s changed. So yeah, I think that the fundamentals are still the same. I mean, the rules are still the same. You still like it. If you’ve got a problem employee, you still deal with that in much the same way, but it’s, it is more difficult. There is a barrier now when you don’t have that employee in the office with you, when that employee is kind of could be hiding out, you know, behind, you know, in their, in their home, you don’t know what they’re doing day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute, you don’t see them. And, and the simple truth is even when they’re in your office, you don’t necessarily see them either. You may be squirreled away in your office most of the time. And yeah, you see that they’re there, you see that their cars in the parking lot, you don’t really know what they’re doing minute to minute, but I think the fundamentals are still the same, but you have to be more proactive. You have to really be more on the ball as a manager to keep tabs with your people and what they’re doing, you have to set more, um, you know, check-ins more goals, more, more milestones that they’ve got to achieve. And, and you’ve got, they’ve gotta be more visible, I think even more visible than they were before, um, when you’re working together in an office.

Jim Rembach (17:47):

So when I started looking, um, the, the, the book, the book and the results that you have, and the studies that are associated with this particular topic, you know, you, like I said, you you’re a writer, so you resource better, you know, your reference better than someone who doesn’t write as often as you. And when I think about all these different studies that are associated with, you know, leadership and management and all those things that you cited, is there a particular study that kind of stands out to you as the most impactful?

Peter Economy (18:21):

Well, there’s one that LinkedIn did, LinkedIn learning dead. Um, I think it was a couple of years ago, 2018, where they surveyed a bunch of managers to find out, you know, what is the, they asked this question, what’s the single most frustrating trait that’s that your manager has basically asked that question. So what frustrates you most? And this is, you know, a particular interest because, um, you know, Gallup has found that the number one reason why people leave an organization is because of a bad boss. If they’ve got a bad boss, that’s the number one reason why people leave. So, you know, you want to know, you know, what is frustrating people with their managers? And the number one item that they found was that managers having expectations that aren’t clear. So we talked about that way. We had a hit on that a little bit earlier, but you know, when, when you’re mad, when you don’t know what your manager is really expecting of you, when, when, when you think, you know what they want of you, when you’ve got goals, when you got standards, you know, you’ve got a performance appraisal, and then the manager is doing something else they’re, they’re telling you that you didn’t achieve what they wanted you to achieve, or they’re not happy with what you’re doing.

Peter Economy (19:30):

Well, what do you mean? You’re not happy I’m doing what you told me I should be doing well, no, I really meant this. I really meant you should be doing something else. Well, you didn’t tell me that. So that’s the number one thing that LinkedIn learning found out is, is the, is, is, is the most frustrating thing for, for employees. So that’s one study. I found there’s other things that they found to their, uh, other traits to, um, you know, for example, micromanaging being aloof and not involved and not fostering, uh, uh, employee professional development. But, um, but number one was that unclear expectations.

Jim Rembach (20:06):

So when I start thinking about, you know, the things that you have in this book in regards to those, you know, barriers, things that I need to learn, um, it’s not a job for the faint of heart, Bonnie. And I think a lot of times people will want to have a position of power and authority for reasons that are not, you know, internally, you know, gratifying, important, you know, and won’t, you know, keep them engaged with it. How can someone look at this body of work and the research that you’re saying and say, you know what, I really that’s, I don’t really want to do that. It’s not, for me.

Peter Economy (20:44):

I think that’s a great point because you’re many people become managers only because a, it pays more, you know, it’s, it’s it, it’s, it’s the, it’s the career progression in most organizations to get paid more. You eventually have to become a manager. So most people sign on to becoming a manager, whether they really think they would like it or not. And many people end up becoming managers and they really shouldn’t be managers. I mean, they either, they’re not suited to it. They’re not interested in it. Um, they’re just not, it’s not what they should be doing. They should be a specialist, you know, instead of pulling us, you’re your best sales person and turning them into the sales manager, which may not be what they want to do. They may just enjoy being a sales manager or a sales person out on the floor, you know, selling that may be what turns them on and what they’re best at.

Peter Economy (21:31):

So I think that, you know, anyone who’s, who’s potentially getting thrown into a new management position needs to look hard and long it relevant. If that’s something they really want to do, would they be better suited to not being a manager? And, and that’s a great, a great point. You know, when I became a manager, I may really should have just stuck with not being a manager. And I knew that when I was a manager, many times, I didn’t really particularly care for the job. I mean, I, all of a sudden I felt I was responsible for the performance of all my people. And at one point I had almost 500 people working for me and I was personally responsible for the results. And that was a lot of pressure. And I couldn’t particularly, I mean, I had people all across the country and about 40 different locations and I didn’t know what they were doing minute to minute, there was just no way I could tell. So it’s a, it’s a tough position to be in and a lot of responsibility and sure. You may get paid more, but think long and hard about whether that’s really the thing that you’re most suited to.

Jim Rembach (22:26):

Well, and you had talked about cause you, and I think share this similar passion of wanting to develop these young, young people. Actually, I shouldn’t even say that because even when you’re starting to talk about development, looking at the studies on some people actually get a leadership development they’re in her forties. Right?

Peter Economy (22:43):

Exactly. Yeah. They don’t get it until they’re in their forties.

Jim Rembach (22:45):

Exactly. It’s amazing. Um, but so when I start thinking about, you know, all of that, we have a passion for that development. Um, and I know for me, because I study it and I interview, um, amazing folks like yourself as I get exposed to a lot of insights and information. And one of the things that I like to share, and I like to learn about are the favorite quotes that people have, those are quote or two that you like, that you can share?

Peter Economy (23:07):

Well, I think my favorite quote is probably, you know, um, you know, you basically just, you, you create your own future and I’m not sure what the quote is. It’s I used to love this thing though. Basically, you know, you create what the future is for you. And this is so true that, um, you know, we create our own future. It’s not somebody else. You can always look, you know, blame, blame your future on somebody else, your present circumstances on someone else. But it’s something we create. We have the power, we, you know, we have the ability to change our future. And every minute we can, we change the track trajectory of our lives. So I mean, that quote, that embodies that. And I can’t remember the exact quote right now, but that’s basically it. I mean, you create your own future, so, so create it, do it, you know, make your future and know that you have the power to change the future.

Jim Rembach (24:02):

Yeah. I think the action based element is critically important. So talking about action there’s some times when we take actions and we learn and, you know, we have humps that we have to get over that hopefully put us in a better direction and we like to share those stories so that others can learn from them. Is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

Peter Economy (24:20):

Yeah, well, certainly, um, there was, there was that position that I had when I did become a manager of, of 400 plus people, almost 500 people. And it was, it was pretty daunting at first. It was pretty, pretty hard to get my arms around it first because I had previously managed a group of maybe 12 people. And, and that was pretty smooth. That was fine. I mean, I had regular staff meetings. I knew what everybody was doing. They were all in my building. They’re all in one, you know, one office area. So that was pretty easy to take, you know, to, to do as far as being a manager. But all of a sudden when I had, you know, over 400 people, almost 500 people scattered across the country, that was really daunting. And that was a big hump for me to get over. But what I realized was that I had key managers, um, that were in between me and those four or 500 people.

Peter Economy (25:11):

I had these key people that were working for me that could really, I could rely on, I could trust to take care of those details. I didn’t need to know to know what every single person was doing. And those 400 plus people, as long as my key people, you know, three or four people who are my deputies, essentially, as long as I, as long as they were taking care of business, I could rely on them to get the job done. So it was a matter of trust. It was delegation, which I think a lot of managers are not so good at doing delegating. A lot of managers want to do it all themselves. And that was that second thing in the LinkedIn learning survey from 2018 was micromanagement, a lot of managers micromanage and still a debt instead of delegating. And once I learned to delegate and that I could trust these deputies who are working for me, that made my job so much easier, because then I knew that we were going to be okay, that I got over that hump. And, and, and my job as a, as a manager became much easier then.

Jim Rembach (26:14):

Well, I think for me what you said that a lot of that has to do with, you know, building of the confidence, you know, as well in the role to be able to say, and release and relinquish, uh, you know, that, that type of decision making to other people, uh, that delicate gate, you know, to like the whole delegating piece is something when you’re, when you’re new, that is just one of the most difficult things to do,

Peter Economy (26:35):

right? Yeah. I mean, you’ve been an expert, you know, before you become a manager, you’re an expert in something. So again, you could be an expert in the sales, you know, call centers. You can be an expert in whatever it is you do. I was an expert in negotiating contracts. That’s what my background was. Um, but all of a sudden you’re put into a different position and, and you’re in charge of other people. So it’s, it’s a really kind of a scary thing. For many people you’re feel like you’re on, on thin ice because all of a sudden, you’re not in charge. You’re not just doing what you’re an expert in doing anymore. You’re doing more and being put in a different role and entirely different role.

Jim Rembach (27:12):

Most definitely. Okay. So over a hundred books, you know, some of those have your own name on them. Some have other people’s names on them. Uh, I, when I think about all of that, uh, I start thinking about some, you know, goals that you may have. Is there a goal or two that you can share?

Peter Economy (27:28):

Well, my personal goals are to just continue to do really fun projects with really interesting people. I mean, that’s my personal goal and that’s what I’m constantly seeking out and looking for. And, and they, they typically find me. I’ve just, I’ve done so many books and I’ve, I’ve, I’ve worked with so many different people and editors and publishers and literary agents. And then just my clients that they keep sending me their, their colleagues, their friends are, you know, people that they work with. And, and, and it’s just that. So that’s my personal goal is to continue to do these kinds of projects, where I get to meet super interesting people and work with them and learn what they do and learn from them. And it just makes my life such a joy to do these, these kinds of projects and these kinds of books

Jim Rembach (28:19):

and the fast leader, Legion wishes you the very best. Now, before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

Ad (28:26):

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Jim Rembach (29:16):

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received,

Peter Economy (29:20):

empower your people, trust your people, let them do what they know how to do best.

Jim Rembach (29:25):

What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Peter Economy (29:30):

I work really hard. I work all the time. What’s a vacation. What’s that.

Jim Rembach (29:35):

And what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Peter Economy (29:40):

Just knowing what people, you know, being, being empathetic to people, um, being a human

Jim Rembach (29:46):

and what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion and it could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to wait on the boss on your show notes page as well.

Peter Economy (29:55):

Good to great Jim Collins. That was a great book and it still is.

Jim Rembach (29:59):

Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that. And other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/peter economy. Okay. Peter, this is my last Humpty. Hold on question. Imagine you’ve begin. Been given the opportunity to go back to the age 25, and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You don’t take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why

Peter Economy (30:23):

everything is going to be okay? Um, I think, you know, when you’re at that age 25, you don’t know what the future is going to bring, but it’s, it’s all gonna work out.

Jim Rembach (30:31):

Peter. I had funds with you today can continue please share at the fast leader Legion, how they can connect with you.

Peter Economy (30:36):

Uh, my website, Peter economy.com. That’s the best place to find me in what I’m doing.

Jim Rembach (30:41):

Peter economy. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader, Legion honors you, and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.