JT McCormick Show Notes Page

JT McCormick didn’t have a great place to grow up. He was surrounded by poor role models and was given every reason to give up. Despite almost every odd stacked against him and nothing to bolster his success, he found a pathway out that very few explore. Now, his organization is known for delivering an exceptional customer experience and being a great place to work and JT shares his story to inspire others how to get there.

JT McCormick shouldn’t have succeeded. He was born the mixed-race son of a drug-dealing pimp father and an orphaned, single mother on welfare. He was raised in the slums of Dayton, Ohio, suffered incredible abuse and racism, and had multiple stints in the juvenile justice system. He barely graduated high school and has no college degree.

But succeed he did.

Starting by scrubbing toilets, JT hustled and worked his way into better opportunities, eventually finding incredible success in the banking and mortgage industry. He was on top of the world.

And then the mortgage industry fell apart. He lost his job, and literally all of his money. He had to borrow from his friends to make rent. He was nearly back to where he started: with nothing.

But this time, he had something that he did not have growing up in the slums of Dayton: the knowledge of what it takes to succeed. JT used this setback combined with what he learned as the springboard for him to reach even bigger heights.

He worked his way from being the lowest paid employee to the President of Headspring Software, which he helped grow to a multimillion-dollar, 100-plus person company that was repeatedly ranked as one of the best places to work in all of Texas.

Currently, JT is the President and CEO of Scribe Media, a publishing company that helps you write, publish and market your book. The company has worked with more than 1,000 authors and Entrepreneur Magazine recently ranked Scribe as having the Top Company Culture in America.

JT is the author of “I Got There: How I Overcame Racism, Poverty, and Abuse to Achieve the American Dream” where he talks of poverty, starting with his career cleaning toilets and eventually becoming the President of multiple companies.

He has mentored at-risk youth in the juvenile justice system, as well as youth in low economic communities. JT’s work has been featured on CNBC, Entrepreneur, Forbes, Inc, and many others. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his wife, Megan, and their four children, Ava, age 5, Jaxon, age 4, Elle age 2, and Jace, 5 months.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @realjtmccormick to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“It doesn’t matter where you fall on the economic ladder, you don’t know what you don’t know.” – Click to Tweet

“You don’t want people to be satisfied, you want people to be fulfilled.” – Click to Tweet

“Attention to detail is a basic thing that will help you be successful.” – Click to Tweet

“The frontline encounters, interactions, and lessons that we provide for each other in the workplace are the things that will help us become a great company.” – Click to Tweet

“The things that you do over and over are the things that help you grow as a company and as a person.” – Click to Tweet

“You can’t change the past, but you can change how you view the story. Choose to take the positives from the harsh lessons that you went through.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s up to you as an individual to change your mindset.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s never one thing. It’s consistency. It’s day in, day out.” – Click to Tweet

“How you treat people is how they will also treat people externally.” – Click to Tweet

“People. Process. Profits. You find great people, you can build great process, you can make great profits.” – Click to Tweet

“Don’t let someone else define for you what success looks like.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s not work-life balance. It’s just life.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s not about failing. You can make mistakes, but the key is to learn, grow, and not repeat those mistakes.” – Click to Tweet

“You only fail if you stop trying.” – Click to Tweet

“Capitalism is not a bad thing. You can do more with money to give back to others than you can being broke.” – Click to Tweet

“What did you do for others to help improve their lives, to teach, to share, to help grow?” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

JT McCormick didn’t have a great place to grow up. He was surrounded by poor role models and was given every reason to give up. Despite almost every odd stacked against him and nothing to bolster his success, he found a pathway out that very few explore. Now, his organization is known for delivering an exceptional customer experience and being a great place to work and JT shares his story to inspire others how to get there.

Advice for others

Surround yourself with people far smarter than yourself.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Myself.

Best Leadership Advice

Don’t be afraid to say, “I don’t know.” Never be the smartest person in the room.

Secret to Success

I’ll ask questions, and I’m not embarrassed about it.

Best tools in business or life

Surrounding myself with great people that are far smarter than myself.

Recommended Reading

I Got There: How a Mixed-Race Kid Overcame Racism, Poverty, and Abuse to Arrive at the American Dream

Think and Grow Rich: The Landmark Bestseller Now Revised and Updated for the 21st Century (Think and Grow Rich Series)

American Icon: Alan Mulally and the Fight to Save Ford Motor Company

Contacting JT McCormick

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jtmccormick/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/scribejt

Twitter: https://twitter.com/realjtmccormick

Website: https://jtmccormick.com/

Resources

Scribe Media

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

Unedited Transcript

Jim Rembach (00:00):

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s really gonna bring some emphasis to the human centric leadership that we talk about on the fast leader show. JT McCormick shouldn’t have succeeded. He was born in a mixed race and son of a drug dealing pimp, father and an orphan single mother on welfare. He was raised in the slums of Dayton, Ohio, suffered incredible abuse and racism and had multiple stents in the juvenile justice system. He barely graduated high school and has no college degree but succeeded. He did starting by scrubbing toilets, JT hustled and worked his way into better opportunities. Eventually finding incredible success in the banking and mortgage industry. He was on top of the world and then the mortgage mortgage industry fell apart. He lost his job and literally all of his money he had to borrow from his friends to make rent.

Jim Rembach (00:53):

He was nearly back to where he started with nothing but this time he had something that he didn’t have growing up in the slums of Dayton and that was the knowledge of what it takes to succeed. JT used his setback combined with what he learned as the springboard for him to reach even bigger Heights. He worked his way from beginning or from being the lowest paid employee to the president of Headspring software, which he helped grow to a multimillion dollar a hundred plus person company that was repeatedly ranked as one of the best places to work in all of Texas. Currently JT is the president and CEO of scribe media, a publishing company that helps you write, publish, and market your book. The company has worked with more than 1000 authors and entrepreneur magazine recently ranked scribe as having the top company culture in America. J T is the author of I Got There: How to Overcome Racism, Poverty, and Abuse to Achieve the American Dream where he talks of poverty starting from his career, cleaning toilets, and eventually becoming the president of multiple companies.

Jim Rembach (02:01):

He has mentioned or he has mentored at risk youth in the juvenile justice system as well as youth and low economic communities. J T J T’s work has been featured on CNBC, entrepreneurial entrepreneur, Forbes, inc and many others. He lives in Austin, Texas. With his wife, Megan, and their four children, Ava Jackson, Ellie, Jace, and he’s here to help us get over the home. My man, Jim, how are you sir? I’m doing fantastic. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better.

JT McCormick (02:40):

Wow. My current passion, man, I, I, my wife, my life comes down to, I call it my pillars, five pillars in life,

JT McCormick (02:48):

God,

JT McCormick (02:49):

health, family, business and investing. So if it doesn’t fall within those five pillars, I don’t do it. I love golf. I love to go out and play it and play around a golf. But it takes about four and a half hours to play around a golf. I much rather have that time to spend with my children. So until I can put all my children in golf lessons, I, we’re, we’re not playing golf right now. So I strict my, my passion are those five pillars and that, and that’s what I, I stick to. I love football, but unless Tom Brady’s going to send me part of this $20 million contract, I really don’t care. So I focused on my pillars and if it falls outside of those, I don’t do it.

Jim Rembach (03:30):

You know, I, I think thank you for sharing that. Uh, you know, and talking about those five pillars and the focus and the execution is something you talk about in the book. And for me, I, I have to say that having the book and getting an opportunity to really understand some of the things that you’ve experienced in life and how we have talked about how that gets incorporated into the culture of your business is vitally important. But you start the book talking about mentoring, you know, young men, 15, 17 years old and talking about this speech that you gave in this juvenile correctional facility. And, and for me, I think it’s really important for us to talk about how that parlays into what we find in the workplace today, as well as how it impacts the customer in the customer experience. So if you could give us a little bit of insight into that and how you feel that that’s translated into your business.

JT McCormick (04:24):

Yeah. W as far as the, the mentoring and the speech, how that transfer, you know, [inaudible] I, I said this to a group of CEOs one time, there are about 250 CEOs in a room and I started off my keynote speech and I said, okay, how many people in the room know how to perform brain surgery? Any neuro surgeons in the room? Of course nobody raises their hand. I said, how many people in the room can launch and build a rocket? Any aerospace engineers? No one raises their hand. And I then I followed it up with, see, we don’t know what we don’t know. Unfortunately, the communities of where I come from, there was a lot that we didn’t know. You know there’s, how am I supposed to know that I can be a barista when there’s no Starbucks in the communities where, where I’m from?

JT McCormick (05:12):

How am I supposed to know what organic food is when there’s no whole foods in the communities in which I come from? So what my point being is even when people are entering into the workplace for the first time, there’s many things that you don’t know. And we take for granted that people are supposed to know these things. So when I mentor the high risk youth and I go in the first thing I said, okay, today we’re going to work on shaking hands. 60% of these kids, they put their fist up and they want to give you a fist pound. They don’t even know how to shake hands. And the ones that do, they give you the lip shake you, they look down at the ground. But [inaudible] it’s a travesty in a shared, this is a factual statistic. 40% of all high school students, regardless of where you fall on the economic ladder, 40% of all graduating high school students will never go to college yet.

JT McCormick (06:06):

And still we send you out into society with the expectation that you’re going to be a productive member of society and we don’t even teach you how to shake hands. So [inaudible] such as, excuse my language, such an ass backwards thing that we’re still teaching you what Columbus day is when we know damn sure he didn’t discover America, but we don’t even teach you what attention to detail is. We don’t teach you high interest loans. We don’t teach you to how to to shake a hand. We don’t show you a certified financial planner that you can go become one without ever needing to go to college. So you know, D doesn’t matter where you fall on the economic ladder, you don’t know what you don’t know.

Jim Rembach (06:49):

I love that you bring that up because it’s funny that when we start talking about customer experience, we start talking about customer service service and, and even when you start talking about, you know, some of those kids that do go on to college, a lot of them don’t even make it, they drop out. Right? So we had this large percentage of folks that we are expecting to deliver a Ritz Carlton experience who don’t even know what the heck a Ritz Carlton is.

JT McCormick (07:13):

Exactly, exactly. You know, and I’m going to pause there if you don’t mind Jim, you brought up customer service, customer experience. Here’s what I, what I think is just mind blowing to me. We have all heard this. We strive for customer satisfaction. I think JD powers even calls our customers satisfaction survey. I find the term customer satisfaction to be deplorable. Who the hell wants to be satisfactory? I if someone says, how would ask my wife, Hey, how’s GT as a husband, I don’t want her to say he satisfactory. If someone sits into my kids, Hey, how’s your dad? Oh he’s the satisfactory dad. No. So I, I find the whole term of customer satisfaction to just be asked to mine. It should be customer fulfillment. You know, how, how fulfilled are, are your customers, how fulfilled are the, we call them a tribe. Others would say employees or team members. I don’t ever want you to be satisfied. I want you to be fulfilled in your career once you did enjoy the work that you do. I want our customers, our authors to be fulfilled in working with us. So customer satisfaction is just a ridiculous way to look at that. That’s what we’re striving for. Satisfactory. That’s, that just doesn’t make sense to me.

Jim Rembach (08:33):

Well [inaudible] okay. So when you start talking about that not making sense, what also doesn’t make sense is that we can continue to try to improve the performance and lead people who are actually delivering that experience. So there’s a lot of people in, in our society who are, are, have grown up, you know, with some of the unfortunate circumstances that you grew up with. Right? You know, half siblings, um, you know, uh, illegal things flying around left and right. Um, but luckily you found an uncle Bobby who was a mentor to you. All of us need a mentor and somebody to help do what you’re talking about, guide us. And more and more people who are in that leader role, especially frontline leaders, have to really start focusing in on improving their skills and abilities to lead those people. And knowing that we’re going to have to do some pretty basic things like teaching people how to shake hands.

JT McCormick (09:27):

Right? Right. [inaudible] you know, we do master classes here at the company with, with scribe. We’ll do masterclasses on how to write an effective email, how to communicate or the phone. And those are very important skillsets because many people have not been taught those things. I, I’m incredibly fortunate that I’m surrounded by people. So, so our company, we’ve got 50 people now. I am the only person in the company that doesn’t have a college degree and 75% of our tribe members have master’s degrees, have some type of, you know, additional education that we’ve got people who have gone to Harvard and so on and so forth. And I’ve asked the, each one of them, where did you learn attention to detail? None of them learned it in college. So it’s one of those things that it’s such a basic thing that will help you be successful that we don’t teach. So you nailed it. Those frontline encounters in interactions, in lessons that we can provide for each other in the workplace. That’s what helps you be a great company. And it’s never, I say this to people all the time, it’s never one thing. It’s a series of things that you have to do over and over and be repetitive, consistent. It just, it sounds mundane, but those are the things that help you grow as a company and as a person.

Jim Rembach (10:53):

Well, and as well as you know, as you know, thinking about this and going through the book and learning about your life experience and also how that connects with what we’ve been talking about is we have to build the ability for people to deliver the Topal tough love. Like your uncle Bobby, right? Um, so the, the having the uncle Bobby’s in our world, having the people who could not pity us, you know, but help guide us as vitally important. So how are you bringing that into scribe?

JT McCormick (11:22):

You know, for me, one, I take my past, I don’t, I made a decision a long time ago that I wasn’t going to be a victim of my past. You know, my dad was a pimp and had 23 children and, and yes, I was sexually abused in sexually molested by one of my dad’s prostitutes. But I made the decision not to be a victim. I can’t change the past, but I can change how I viewed the story. And what I mean by that is I choose to take the positives from those harsh lessons that I went through through the chaos that I went through. One of my favorite, this lesson has served me so great throughout my career and I do bring this into our culture and our company. When I was a kid, I was eight years old, Jim, as eight years old, my dad had me one weekend.

JT McCormick (12:10):

Yeah, we’re walking through the grocery store and I’m a in. A little girl walks past me. She goes to school with me and she says, hi Javan my real name’s Giovan. I didn’t say anything. I put my head down and I was shy. My dad smacked me in the back of the head. I fall to the ground, my nose starts bleeding. He snatches me up and then he’s got me pinned up against the frozen food door and he’s like two inches from my face and he says, I don’t care who it is. You say hello and show respect and be kind to everyone. Jim to this day I say hello, show respect and I am kind to everyone and that was such a valuable lesson and where I take it a step further is I’m actually more kind two service industry individuals, housekeeping at a hotel. The person that’s taking your ticket at the movie theater, because rarely do people even take the time to say hello to those individuals. The the restroom attended at the airport. I’ll say thank you. Restroom looks nice. Thank you. I appreciate it. You know, I’m my stir to those individuals than I am any founder of a company, any CEO, that those people have enough, uh, individuals kissing up to them. But we’ll just overlook housekeeping and not say hello. And sometimes you can make a person stay with a simple hello and a thank you.

Jim Rembach (13:35):

You know what you say that I think that’s also a character reveal. Uh, I’m, you know, there’s a couple of people who I’ve had some business dealings with that are in the customer experience industry who dared to tell me stories where they didn’t do that and we’re quite proud of it. And I’m like, you know what? We’re not a right fit. You know, I had to exit, you know, and, and sometimes I didn’t do it fast enough to be honest with you. Um, but talking about knowing where I stand in my five pillar, you know, your five pillars and things like that, for me as I’ve gotten older, it’s knowing that Hey, there are certain things that I need to take a stand for and you know what? I need to be okay of the consequences as a result of that. And you know, making sure that everybody is treated in that way and that I’m not the one, I’m not saying I’m perfect, have I, you know, done wrong. Absolutely. I mean, is it intended intended? Absolutely not. But I think it’s an important character reveal. And that’s something that we can also look for when we’re bringing, you know, try, you know, tribe members in.

JT McCormick (14:31):

Yeah. So, you know, here’s, here’s one Jim. This one always, I laugh about this. I don’t understand it. All of us in business have probably gone to a lunch or dinner that cost $150 $250. Hell, some of us have spent $500 on a lunch or dinner, a business dinner and, but we’ll, we’ll just stay with two 50 now. What? No watches gym. We’ll spend $250 on a business lunch. We leave a 20% tip. That’s 50 bucks. We’re paying 50 bucks to the person who took our order. And if you’re at a place that costs $250 for lunch, I promise you the person who took your order is probably not the person who brought your food out. It’s usually a different person. They’ll come out and put it all on the table and then the person that took your order will come in and say, how is everything?

JT McCormick (15:15):

How’s it look? So we’ll leave $50 Tim, for that person that took her order. But here’s what’s amazing to me. We won’t leave $3 $5 for housekeeping at a hotel that, that these individuals cleaned the toilets that we sit on. God knows what takes place in some of those beds. We don’t even leave $3 $5 to housekeeping who are making 10 12 maybe $15 at best. And if we took the time, believe $3 $5 tip, that $5 tip may take an individual’s child out for ice cream. You know, gas right now here in Texas is about $2 a gallon. That five bucks may get put two gallons in the tank to get that person to work the next day. And they cleaned the toilets that we sit on, but we’ll be 50 bucks for a person that took our order at a restaurant. I do not understand that.

Jim Rembach (16:11):

Okay. So I think hopefully you just changed the societal norm because many of us probably don’t even think about that. Um, and I do also know that there are certain things from a cultural perspective, you know, where you don’t tip it all right if you go to, if you travel globally. Um, and so some things that in our society we do and other places they don’t. However, I think one of the things that’s critically important is for us to become more aware. I think that’s really kind of the message that I get from you is that we need to be more aware of our impact and our effect and how that can affect, you know, impact other people’s lives. So thank you for sharing that. [inaudible]

JT McCormick (16:48):

packed our fact it, you know, I, I really, I really appreciate that term you just said, uh, aware. You know, we, we as a culture, we as a society, what we’re humans for one, so, so we tend to be selfish because we’re humans. It happens. But when things go wrong or you’re having a tough day or traffic’s bad, we tend to be frustrated where we’re, we’re upset, more angry. And I say this to people all the time. It’s up to you as an individual to change your mindset. And I, I’ve been on this big kick lately, I call it the one mile radius. If you’re frustrated, you’re angry, you’re pissed off, whatever it is, go stand outside your office, go stand outside your house. And within a one mile radius, there’s somebody that will trade places with you in a heartbeat. And so I, I look at that as well.

JT McCormick (17:38):

It’s up to us as individuals to keep things in perspective regardless, regardless of where you fall politically. I don’t care if you’re Democrat, I don’t care if you’re Republican. Put that to the side. The of the matter is there’s a single mom right now with two kids walking 1100 miles from Honduras to try to get into this country and create an opportunity. Well, my worst day of being sexually molested or my worst day of going hungry, I have never had to face that, so I keep it in perspective that I say to myself, okay, there’s someone trying to get into this country to create an opportunity. Dammit, I was born here. I’ve got a head start, so I keep things in perspective.

Jim Rembach (18:19):

I think that’s a great point. I mean for those that have actually been no birth here or are here now, we have opportunities that others just never have. When you talk about four pathways for people who are less fortunate and how they see their way to be able to get out. Okay. You took the fourth

JT McCormick (18:35):

I took the fourth. No one told me about it. I, I stumbled upon it. But yes, where I’m from, there were three avenues. Rapper, athlete or drug dealer. No one told me about business entrepreneurship. I mean, Jim, if someone would have said entrepreneur to me at age 15 I literally would have thought you were speaking a foreign language and no one told us or, or tells the, the those communities of where I come from about that fourth option. And Jim, let me, let me say this as well. This is very important to me. So we, we, like you said, I’m mixed race. My father’s black, my mother’s white. But when I see low economic communities, unfortunately most people hear that and they think black community, they think Latino community, people tend to forget there’s West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi that are full of low income, white communities, broke, does not discriminate.

JT McCormick (19:34):

Poor is not racist. So you know, you don’t know what you don’t know regardless of what color you may be or what race you may be. So unfortunately from those communities of which I come from, no one knows of these other options. No one knows that they can be a pharmaceutical rep. I got, what is that? No, people have no clue. So I’m big on it. If I could, the sweeping change I would make within our educational system is I would add a class your freshman year and it would be called show and tell and not like for my, my six year old where she brings her favorite toy. She shows you, she tells you about it. Know your freshman year. Show me how to shake hands. Tell me why it’s important. Show me a financial advisor. Tell me how I can become one. Show me attention to detail.

JT McCormick (20:25):

Tell me why it’s important. So on and so forth. And especially for inner city kids or low economic kids because there’s so many things we just don’t know. You and I were talking before we came on. How am I supposed to know that I can be a barista when I don’t even know what the hell you know, there’s a Starbucks in the community. How am I supposed to know what organic food is when there’s no whole in the community? So you know, how am I supposed to know I can be a bank teller when the only thing in my community is a damn payday loan place. So it’s you don’t know what you don’t know. And unfortunately, like I said, in those lower economic communities, there just a lot of things that we did, we don’t know.

Jim Rembach (21:05):

Yeah. And you know, as you’re talking, I’m starting to even think about going back to the whole, you know, five star experience. I mean, there’s a lot of people and there’s very few people who’ve had that experience. I mean across all different types of economic spectrums. Of course, the lower ones, but there’s middle ones who’ve never done that either. And we’re expecting them to do that. So therefore, when I even think about scribe, you know, winning and being recognized as the best place to work, how does that happen and how do you maintain it and sustain it?

JT McCormick (21:36):

Yeah. Again, it’s never one thing. It’s consistency. It’s the way we approach everything. So I’ll give you a few. You heard me talk about customer satisfaction so that, that’s one right off the bat. We never want people to be satisfied. We want you to be fulfilled. We want to go that extra mile. What’s that look like? A lot of the things that we talk about internally. A great example, no one works for me. People work with me. I’m no one’s boss. I’m no more important to the organization than everyone else within the culture. Here’s another big thing. You hear this in corporate America a lot. They say they want to attract and retain the best talent. I don’t want to retain anyone that sounds like we’re, we’re going back to the slavery days where I’m going to retain you. So the way I look at this is we want to offer and provide, we want to offer you a great career, a great place to work, and we want to provide you a career that if you so choose, you can retire from scribe, you can grow your career here, you can learn.

JT McCormick (22:40):

So all of these little pieces make a difference in how you were approach the, the, the culture. And like I said, a a big one. Here’s, here’s another big one. Uh, I refuse to say human capital. That’s just, that’s just horrible. Sounds like we’re, uh, you know, trafficking people and we are very conscious of how we approach it. We don’t train people. We teach coach and mentor, you know, you train your body, you train horses, you train a dog. But we teach coach and mentor. So it’s, it’s a holistic way of how we approach our, our culture, how we do business, how we interact with individuals. But it’s never one thing. I get so many people said, well, J T give me one thing that you guys do. It’s not one thing. It’s, it’s consistency. It’s day in, day out. It’s being willing to call out each other on a culture principle or violation of one of those principles and values. And then number one, uh, of, of all of it is we always put people first.

Jim Rembach (23:43):

Okay. So as I’m sitting here and, and unfortunately we still have this continued argument where people say, I don’t understand where it translates directly into revenues. I don’t understand where it translates directly into profitability. I mean, it’s an intangible. And for me, I call hogwash on that. But for you, for somebody who’s sitting in the top seat, what have you seen that translate into from a organizational health, wealth and prosperity perspective?

JT McCormick (24:10):

So for first and foremost, how you treat, treat people in my opinion, is how they will also treat people externally. So if we treat our tribe members well, then they’re going to treat our authors, our customers well, in addition to how they’re being treated. If you treat someone horribly, that’s going to reflect externally too to your customers. Someone’s going to have a a bad day because you’re treating the bat and it’s going to reflect on a phone call and interaction, whatever the case may be. So I truly believe in, in putting people first, I operate in a very simple, uh, cause there’s not a lot of academic gifts going on up here. So I keep it very simple. I call it the three PS. People process profits. You find great people, you can build great process, you can make great profits. So many companies put those out of order. I’ve had people challenge me and they’ll say, Oh JT, you know, processes first. My argument is you can have a flawless process. You put bad people in it, they will wreck your process. Give me great people. We can build great process. It will equal great profits that I keep it that simple. I don’t make business complicated.

Jim Rembach (25:32):

Well I think that’s an important point. Be honest with you. Um, I think it’s, we can’t, we have a tendency to overcomplicate.

JT McCormick (25:38):

Totally, totally. And, and we have a tendency as humans, individuals, especially in our society now, we want to automate everything we want to. Everything’s got a process. We have totally left out the people relationship factor in this. Most people, the default is to send an email, send a text, no, the default for us pick up the phone. And if you can, let’s do it in person. There’s nothing that’s ever going to beat an in person conversation. There’s nothing that’s going to be a phone conversation. But we default to, to email it and, and it’s, it’s interesting, we help people write their books, but I’ll argue with anyone when you receive an email words on a screen or words on the screen, there’s no inflection point. There’s no, there’s no care. There’s no dialogue. I can’t have a conversation with you. If I see your words on the screen, I can’t respond in, share my thoughts with you, then I’ve got to respond to an email, then I got to wait for you. Whereas I could have put all of that to bed on a three to five minute phone call and built a relationship as well.

Jim Rembach (26:53):

Yeah. I’m glad that you say that. You know, talk, cause you and I have