047: Warren Kennaugh: It took far much more time and effort

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

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Today I am so excited because I have the chance to have somebody on the show that I really enjoy. He’s someone who I look up to, I actually bounce ideas off of, a deep thinker as well as a great sense of humor and a good overall being and I don’t get to see him very much because he lives happily all around the world. Warren Kannaugh was born and raised in Sydney, Australia, one of two boys and as a youth he loved pulling things apart. His first degree was in Mechanical Engineering where he specialized in the construction and repair of heavy earth moving equipment. Having the need for more people contact which is very un-engineer like he secured a sales position in the banking and finance industry where he successfully rose through the ranks over nine years. Just when he was positioned to lead the banks first-ever national coaching practice the organization restructured and Warren sought as his opportunity to strike out on his own.

Since that fateful day in 1996, he’s built his own consultancy firm focusing in on the human behavior of the peak performance. Warren has worked with over 70 blue-chip, large corporations, and advised over 300 senior managers and elite teams. Warren’s expertise is in the area of developing high-performance which is seeing him take interim positions as Head of Sales Effectiveness for a major bank and the Director of Coaching and Facilitation for Melbourne Business School. In 2006, Warren was asked to work with the Australia Rugby Union in preparing the team for the rugby World Cup for the 2007 and 2011 campaigns. His success on the project has since had him working at the highest levels in World Rugby, World Cricket, VGA golf, Rugby League and preparing the Australian Equestrian team for the real Olympics.

Warren’s work enables an individual or team to easily identify the dynamics which limit their success, which permits behavioral changes allowing them to achieve their goals. Warren currently lives in Sydney with his wife and daughter and has a passion of old-style film photography and is madly working away on his second book. Warren Kannaugh are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Warren Kannaugh:         Absolutely, Jim, great to be here today. Great to be with your Hump Day. 

Jim Rembach:      I’ve given our legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you better?

Warren Kannaugh:     Yeah, I look very much so. I absolutely had a passion for many years about what makes people tick, I supposed it’s the engineering element from which I come from. If you understand how a building is built or a bridge is built then it is predictable how things are going to paint out as far as structure goes and how do people get results. There must be ways, there must be patterns, and there must be parts at least resistance that people actually go through to get similar results about the success and failure. So that’s for my passion for my work perspective. No surprise of course I bring to other areas of my personal life where you mentioned the black and white photography, the art of taking  a great photo, the art of developing a great print, and many hours in the dark room whiling time away. Some diversity in approach but very much as we look at it, similar constants underneath that similar foundation in my interest. 

Jim Rembach:     When you started talking about the whole moving from the engineering piece and the very mechanical piece to the human behavior piece, you start having a big separation in, I guess you’d say the accuracy or the confidence levels of what you get as an outcome of whatever you engineer. So, if I am an engineer I know that if I have certain inputs and if I construct those in a certain way I’m going to get some pretty defined outputs that doesn’t happens with humans.

Warren Kannaugh:     The input that we know with humans are more predictable with thoughts. I heard a great quote the other day from a psychologist. The quote basically went, “The more there is complexity the easier it is to say the patterns” If we stand back and look at the building from ground level, it’s a whole lot of complexities as the building goes up 30 levels and so, however if we look at the diagram we will actually say there’s a fairly consistent approach to which level and how building’s built. Very, very similar with human behavior, if you follow me around and watch me complete task, I would have my four or five default patterns of which I would go about it before I give up, before I have a break or give up. In surmise, Jim, I think there is no doubt this quote said about complexity but role say quite predictable. 

Jim Rembach:     That’s a really interesting point that you bring up and so when you start thinking about what all of us have to contend with today and that we have so many things to do and only a finite amount of time to do them, however, we are working in some very similar patterns in the way that we go about our work, what needs to take place in order for us to really thrive? 

Warren Kannaugh:     Great question, great question. I think there’s three simple things that we need to do to really thrive. The first thing is to work at what default skills are we good at? Sometimes that types of walls for us to bump it around to work out. Sometimes it takes that much time because 10 or 20 years to work at exactly what we’re kind of good at. So if I can give you an example,  if you’re a sales person, say, you’re in sales and distribution you love people contact, you’re ambitious, you’re goal-driven, you want to make a difference, you want to be recognized, you work hard on the back, it’s quite different set of skills if you’re an accountant. Will you be want to be disciplined, will you want to be rigorous where you probably want more time to yourself, then you can be down to the introversion, extraversion. 

First thing is we need to know, the things that on default we’re good at, what skills or industry did I best fit in? What role did I best fit in? There’s no point to find a whole file of people contact who already know, makes you [6:30 inaudible] or not speak to anyone at that part we go and sign that one to be  but to be [6:33 inaudible]so, I think that’s the first thing. The second thing we need to know when I’ve got a bit of ballpark here is about what role I’m going to actually best perform in, that’s default AC for me , it’s then look for the environment that supports the same values and beliefs that I do. 

Quite often we can actually see someone who excels in one organization move to another organization and not apply their excellence and skill. And they haven’t lose this skill, on Friday afternoon when they’re hard performer they didn’t lose the skills over the weekend to Monday where they’re not feeling comfortable and not producing their best. Now, in that case we see a lot of organizations who look at engagement which absolutely critically important, but if I don’t fit—if I don’t fit with my manager, if my values and my beliefs and my motives don’t fit with the organization then no amount of apples in the [7:23 inaudible] membership is going to change it, you will not get peak performance out of me because I just don’t feel comfortable. 

And the third thing around that is I need to understand enough about myself to know when I’m under stress and pressure to what extent and what behaviors I’m going to over apply and potentially ruin my reputation. So, got the three things, the skills and the talent I’ve got which role does that actually best fit? Secondly, when I’m clear on the role I need to be really have the vision around by an organization that believe the same things that I believe, and ideally my direct manager, we’ve got on quite along but we have the same beliefs. And thirdly, am I smart enough to actually know when I’m under stress and pressure the things I overplay so I don’t end up looking I threw them ruining my reputation. 

Jim Rembach:     Listen to you talk while we were initially referring to the simplicity piece it got complex pretty fast [Laugh] and so it was like, “Oh, wooh wait a minute, we have a lot more variables that I thought here. When your start thinking about a lot of these things it does take a lot of effort, even if we can get the simplistic we have to go through the effort. And we need energy, focus like your term of purpose, values all of the things. And one of the things that we look on the Fast Leader show are quotes because they can help supply us with a lot of that and help us hopefully find some grounding, some energies so that we can move forward. Is there a quote or two that stands out for you that you can share?

Warren Kannaugh:     Yes. There’s certainly one that’s in my mind and it’s a great reflection for me. And it was one of my previous bosses said to me, “Greatness is achieved by never being totally satisfied with the status quo”. So, there’s always distinction about what else can be done, what else can be done, what else can be done, looking at, how can we move things forward, how can be better. I just think that’s a wonderful quote about not resting on laurels about—not accepting how things are. Of course, if you take that quote and put it on steroids and it’s a problem cause you’re never happy with anything but it’s just try it on the balance about being in a constant state of discontent to enable things to move forward and checking yourself and reflecting. 

Jim Rembach:     I think that’s a great point, they talked about several different studies associated with strengths can rapidly become weaknesses when they’re on hyper drive or steroids then you have to definitely balance and embed them to where that doesn’t happen, such a great point. 

Warren Kannaugh:     I think you’re so right. I’m originally working with a gentleman, Gary is outgoing, really the center of attention, what you describe as great leadership qualities. However, in state of stress and pressure he over [inaudible 10:24] those stage which undermines his reputation, which draws too much attention to himself, which makes it about ‘him’ not about the team. So, I think you’re exactly right, there’s such a fine line between—these are great absolutely leadership traits but in another context they don’t work. 

Jim Rembach:     That’s a great point. There’s a lot of factors that can affect that. Talking about your transition from being an engineer, working on heavy machinery and working with people and working with a lot of teams in sports as well as well as corporate—you yourself had gone through a big transition and with that we’ve had humps that we have to get over when anybody experiences that? Is there a time that you can remember of a hump that you had to get over that kind helped you get set in a better direction, can share that with us?

Warren Kannaugh:     Yeah, very much so. I would say the hump that I need to get over—you know, I went to my own consultancy, it was a very big deal. There as uncertainty about whether it was going to work. I wasn’t totally unhappy in a corporate environment but it was an opportunity for me to do more of what I wanted to do, I had some of that in the corporate world but there’s opportunity for me to do more. So I had questions about whether it was going to work, whether if I badly dissimulators, whether if I struck it on my own that I could feel the sustainable practice, so there was some real question that actually challenged at that point in time. 

I wasn’t unhappy working in a corporate environment but doing more of what I want really matter to me. It wasn’t enough to just to do it every now and then I want to make my life  about it and understanding how it work and not everyone wants to know that and so it’s about finding people who have an interest in that himself that I can work with. The challenges about starting my own business to time, and to get and to be without my men to men kind of reputation. It took far much more time and effort than I actually thought. And I been blessed at the moment to have the stuff that I love and I think after that—nine, ten years I think I can comfortably say I probably want to go back to banking and finance. 

Jim Rembach:     Let’s hope not because you’re doing some really good work that’s for sure. There’s a couple of things that stood out as you were sharing that story, and thanks for sharing it. You talked about that uncertainty piece, how were you able to deal with that uncertainty piece and get over that hump because a lot of times people hit that part and then they just go back because there’s security in that, so how did you push past? 

Warren Kannaugh:     I suppose in some ways I was a bit naive about the effort that would be required, so that was absolutely a blessing, to be honest with you. I set some goals around things that I needed to do at 3, 6 and 12 month period. And I loved to say, I shopped a lot in on the goals, I actually made it over the line. And by that time I’d gone from the fear of concern to more so about—I know it’s not where I need to be but I’m enjoying this more. So there was interesting changes and current shift for me is I went along that and that gave me enough to push through. It would have been easy to say, “Listen I made enough to buy a Maserati and a small island in the first 12 months and that was [14:01 inaudible] market. It wasn’t the case I made enough to get by. And I actually kind of said, “Would I swoop out money and certainty and predictability to go back and do stuff than in doing this much? And that was interesting [14:19 inaudible] now I want to do this. I can keep going at this and if I start develop a bit, there’s going to be why in front but for my own satisfaction, funny actually from where I was. 

I said to my wife about eight months ago I said, “I think I’m getting more comfortable with the uncertainty, more comfortable with un-comfortability.” It never disappears. I strike out a new project and I face the same questions about myself that I face when I struck out first time. So,   the irony is I don’t get too far away from my own hump but I get to know it better and I’m slightly better at managing it better. I wouldn’t suggest that Harvard come and do place and I will manage it, but I think I get a little bit better at managing it, Jim. 

Jim Rembach:    No, I think it’s a great point is that in itself and our decision-making process and the humps that we run into there’s habits in that. So, it’s best for us to figure out a habit by which we get over it because once we get over that first time needless to say, the second time it becomes easier.

Warren Kannaugh:    Without going back to the engineering analogy too much but the hump who live for one on the building is probably is the similar hump on all [15:34 inaudible]. And so, I come to accept the things that push me to uncertainty in there, in small things also do it in large thing, in some way this unfamiliarity and the uncertainty, if that makes sense. 

Jim Rembach:     It definitely does. We’ve talked on and off for quite a while, and we had the opportunity of meeting here in the workshop on influence and persuasion and I’m still glad that we’ve been able to keep in touch. But if you were to think about all of the things that you have on your plate, and I know there’s several including younger daughter coming-of-age, if you were look at everything you have on your plate what would you say are some of the goals that want to reach soon?

Warren Kannaugh:    They are really great questions. Obviously from the family perspective, with the coming of age, I’d like to see her transition nicely into, I should say, from junior school into high school, that’s what’s important. With some personal projects, I’m working on relating to the house that we live in we have a big renovation project starting there. I just finished one book and will start on the second and will start the third in the new year, so, I’m passionate about—see if I can get my message out to people, just be on people that I connect with. And really to some degree just to continue to do the work that I love to do. I will do the work with the sports people, I will continue to do the work with [17:11 inaudible] people and also balance that with my photography. Not quite any plans at the moments to do the practice on the moon, I want to do anything like that but I suppose to make small adjustments, the stuff that I’ve actually kind of got in place at the moment. It’s interesting for me, I tend not to have big goals, I tend to follow my nose and make adjustments as I kind of get along more from the perspective of where wouldn’t I be interesting to do that. And then I go out and see if that’s possible, and see that’s available and see if I can make that work, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t but it’s more an inquiring mind, I suppose, it actually gets me into thing because it can be found, because I like to do it, and because it might add some value. 

Jim Rembach:     And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick work from our sponsor. 

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Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion it’s time for the—Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Warren the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Warren Kannaugh are you ready to hoedown?

Warren Kannaugh:    I sure am, Jim, let’s go. 

Jim Rembach:    What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Warren Kannaugh:    The challenge for me to do the things differently from what I normally would. The same thing that I ask people to do is to look outside my own paradigm and look at other ways to do the thing I things that you do. 

Jim Rembach:    What is the best leadership advice you have received?

Warren Kannaugh:    Couple of years ago I did some work with the finest photographer by the name of Ralph Gibson and Ralph said to me, “Unless you take on a really big project you’ll never know what you’re capable of.”

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Warren Kannaugh:    You must follow your own path. Take advice and listen, but make your own decisions. 

Jim Rembach:    What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Warren Kannaugh:    A strong team around me that gives me a frank and honest and not always comfortable feedback. 

Jim Rembach:    What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners, besides one of your own?

Warren Kannaugh:    Thank you, Jim. Thank you. I want to pick     moment is a book called Team Genius it’s about inside   how team’s thinking

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader listeners, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Warren Kannaugh. Okay, Warren this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything you could only choose one, what’s skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Warren Kannaugh:    Jim, without a doubt what I would take back with me is to actually gain a really strong understanding of what I’m good at and where I fit. That would just make things a whole lot of easy, which saves a whole lot of bumping around and a whole lot of things of me trying things that didn’t work. So, if I could type back 25 years to kind of work at what I’m good at and fairly close to now and stick to my meeting, that would be really kind of **

Jim Rembach:    Warren it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Warren Kannaugh:    Yes, Jim. They can connect with me on the website warrenkannaugh.com I look forward to hearing thoughts and being challenge by questions and insights from your fast leader listeners. 

Jim Rembach:    Warren Kannaugh thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

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