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Eric Kish - The Everyday Turnaround

177: Eric Kish: They gave me 90 days to crash and burn

Eric Kish Show Notes Page

Eric Kish was placed in an oil refinery to turn it around. Overloaded with debt and crippled by equipment that had failed inspection, Eric thought he had no option but to go bankrupt. That’s when in desperation, Eric’s work to make a major cultural shift paid off and it fueled a historic turnaround.

Eric was born and raised in communist Romania in the early ‘60s and 70’s.

His father, a former Romanian Navy officer trained by the soviets as a rocket scientist, married Eric’s mother while at the Navy Academy in Baku, Azerbaijan, a republic of the Soviet Union at that time.

He grew up surrounded by engineering science and military stories as his father became a pioneer of the Power Electronics industry in the 70’s.

His father eventually defected to the United States in the mid-80s’ and immediately after, Eric emigrated to Israel with his mother and sister.

Soon after, Eric joined the Israeli Defense Forces, serving in its Armored Corps. After completion of his active service tour, he started his career as an Electrical Engineer in the Israeli Defense industry, while continuing to serve in the Israeli Defense Forces reserves.

Eric is best known for his turnaround CEO career, transforming 12 companies across 3 continents in 22 years, two of them taken from millions to billions in revenue.

He began his first turnaround in 1999, taking private a bankrupt oil refinery at a $7m market cap and taking it public again 3 years later at a $450 million market cap. That turnaround was followed by 6 additional acquisitions/turnarounds that created the largest oil company in South Eastern Europe. The company was acquired in 2008 for $3.8Bn.

After transitioning the company to new owners, Eric decided to return to school. He enrolled in MIT’s Sloan School of Business executive certificate program and while at MIT he was accepted by Stanford Business School in their Master’s in Business program which he graduated from in 2012.

In 2013 he joined the US Association of Interim Executives and as part of their Rapid Executive Deployment team lead a number of additional turnarounds

In 2016 Eric decided to write his first book, Everyday Turnaround – The Art and Science of Daily Business Transformation. He was soon asked to create a workshop based on the methodology introduced by the book and to become a regular speaker for Vistage CEO peer groups.

The workshop introduces The Business Navigation Framework, a practical framework to create highly adaptable and scalable organizations.

Eric is currently CEO of FastCAP systems, a fast-growing developer of Carbon Nanotubes based Composite Materials poised to disrupt large segments in the electronics components market.

Throughout his life and career Eric lived and worked in 11 countries and speaks fluently 6 languages.

Eric currently lives in Boulder, Colorado with his wife and daughter, Alina and Maya.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @KishEric to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet  

“With increased speed and uncertainty in our lives, the future belongs to the quickly adaptable.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet  

“The role of a turnaround leader is to change mental models.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“Whatever feels like friction is what keeps your business from scaling and adapting.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“Surface pain, make it measurable and focus your organization on systematically removing everyday friction.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“Intention is something that you have in the back of your mind, when you make everyday decisions.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“If you have people playing in behavioral comfort zones, they will be happier, more motivated and highly energized.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“If you’re naturally in a place of comfort in your behavior, you will spend much less energy to deliver the same goods.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“Organizations are living things.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“If I’ve communicated my intent and prepared them for battle, they will make the right decisions without me.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“A leader has to inspire confidence.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“To put everybody’s mind to work you need to free their initiative.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“My role as a leader is to support you in experimenting to find the right solution.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“Life is like surfing, you have to wait for the right wave to ride it on.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“With money everybody knows how to do it, show me you can do it without asking for more money.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

“Use creativity and execution discipline to solve a problem instead of just throwing money at it.” -Eric Kish Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Eric Kish was placed in an oil refinery to turn it around. Overloaded with debt and crippled by equipment that had failed inspection, Eric thought he had no option but to go bankrupt. That’s when in desperation, Eric’s work to make a major cultural shift paid off and it fueled a historic turnaround.

Advice for others

Understand behavioral drives.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Patience.

Best Leadership Advice

With money, everybody knows how to do it. Show me you can do it without asking for more money.

Secret to Success

Get out of the way of my own organization.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

Behavioral science. I use predictive index that helps me to understand behavioral drives and predict behavior of the people I lead.

Recommended Reading

Everyday Turnaround: The Art and Science of Daily Business Transformation

Adapt: Why Success Always Starts with Failure

Contacting Eric Kish

website: www.everydayturnaround.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erickish/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/KishEric

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript: 

177: Eric Kish: They gave me 90 days to crash and burn

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

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Jim Rembach: Okay Fast Leader legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today that really is going to help with many organizations and their issues associated with doing something different. Eric Kish was born and raised in communist Romania in the early 60’s and 70’s. His father a Romanian navy officer trained by the Soviets as a rocket scientist married Eric’s mother while at a Navy Academy in Baku, Azerbaijan, a republic of the Soviet Union at that time. He grew up surrounded by engineering, science and military stories as his father became a pioneer of power electronics industry in the 1970s. His father eventually defected to the United States in the mid-80 and immediately after Eric immigrated to Israel with his mother and sister. Soon after Eric joined the Israeli Defense Forces serving in its armed corp. After completion of his active service tour he started his career as an electrical engineer in the Israeli Defense industry while continuing to serve in the Israeli Defense Forces Reserves.

Eric is best known for his turn around CEO career transforming 12 companies across three continents in 22 years two of them taken from millions to billions in revenue. He began his first turnaround in 1999 taking private a bankrupt oil refinery at a seven million dollar market cap and taking it public again three years later at a 450 million dollar market cap. That turnaround was followed by six additional acquisitions and turnarounds that created the largest oil company in Southeastern Europe the company was acquired in 2008 for $3.8 billion.

After transitioning the company and new owners, Eric decided to return to school. He enrolled at MIT Sloan School of Business executive certificate program and while at MIT he was accepted by Stanford Business School in their masters in business program which he graduated from in 2012. In 2013, he joined the US Association of interim executives and as part of their rapid executive deployment team led a number of additional turnarounds. In 2016, Eric decided to write his first book, Everyday Turnaround the Art and Science of Daily Business Transformation. He was soon asked to create a workshop based on the methodology introduced by the book and to become a regular speaker for Vistage CEO, peer groups. The workshop introduces the business navigation framework a practical framework to create highly adaptable and scalable organizations.

Eric is currently CEO of FastCap systems a fast-growing developer of carbon nanotubes based composite materials poised to disrupt large segments in the electronics components market. Throughout his life and career Eric lived in worked in 11 countries and speaks fluently six languages. Eric currently lives in Boulder, Colorado with his wife and daughter Alena and Maya. Eric Kish, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Eric Kish: Absolutely.

Jim Rembach: I’m glad you’re here. I’m really excited for our discussion because we had the opportunity to have a little bit of dialogue prior to going on the interview and I think we’re going to really have some fun. Now, I’ve given our legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Eric Kish: Sure. My current passion is studying the adaptability in human organizations. In my 20 years of turning around businesses I realized that more often than not the reason for their distress situation is the inability to quickly adapt to changes in their business environment. I believe that with increased speed and uncertainty in our lives the future belongs to the quickly adaptable.

Jim Rembach: When you say that I can easily in my mind and whatever I’m thinking in my lens and filter I could think that, oh, well you’re talking about upgrading systems and technologies and processes but that’s not really what you’re talking about, isn’t it?

Eric Kish: No, absolutely not. It’s all about people and people’s minds, what I call mental models. So, the role of a turnaround leader is to change mental models and for some magical reason things fall into place almost by themselves if you do the right job.

Jim Rembach: So when you say the “mental models”, what are we really talking about? Because in the book—for example you refer to a couple different things associated with friction and having friction meetings and being able to address certain aspects of friction.

Eric Kish: Friction is something that happens in any organization. Friction I define as anything that feels weird or feels like it’s not going smooth. It can be anything. It can be from lack of money to like we don’t know how to communicate well over email, doesn’t matter whatever it feels like friction is what keeps your business from scaling and adapting. You have to recognize that and you have to find the root causes of that and systematically remove friction. Having the right mental models first of all is to discover that you have friction. To understand what’s the root cause of that friction and to come with creative plans and actions to remove the friction, that’s what I mean by mental models.

Jim Rembach: Okay, and now when you start talking about friction and for me when I looked at it oftentimes when you go in a doctor’s office they talk about what is your pain level?

Eric Kish: Okay, so actually I measure, I measure everything I do and I think everything is measurable and if you cannot measure it you cannot improve it. I define the friction as something that—it’s like a pain feeling and then we design the scale one to five that describes your pain level. When you go to your doctor actually they have a pain level scale they ask you on a scale of 1-5 how do you feel? And we set the same and we described exactly what it means to be at a certain level of pain. And then we have on TV’s, in in my company at least, on TVs we see the graph of pain going up or going down meaning we are doing a good job in removing friction.

Jim Rembach: One of the things that I also liked about is you took it to another level and looked at what was the expected resolution time on these different levels of pain. And you’ve really made it very clear, so that it’s okay, if we recognize that we’re having a tolerable or distressful or a severe situation, what are we going to do about that? And what do we expect to resolve it?

Eric Kish: If it’s level 5 it has to be done today, like now. And we actually have what is called an emergency Channel, when somebody posts what we call a bug in the system that is level 5 pain everybody knows it they receive a text message so all the organization is immediately focused on that particular issue. If you’re at level one the expectation of solving that or removing the friction is like 90 days, so these are the two extremes when you pick the pain level we already know what it is expected in terms of timeline to fix that problem and remove the friction. And you basically surface pain make it measurable and you have your organization focused on removing systematically everyday friction.

Jim Rembach: So that gets into, I guess the framework talking about the everyday turnaround. It’s set up in four different quadrants, share with us what those are.

Eric Kish: Sure. So the first one is strategic intent. I believe that everybody at every level of organization should have the same understanding of where we’re heading. You should have the same answer to the question, who is buying from us and why? You should have the same understanding of why are we different. And also you should have a very good understanding of what do we need to do to deliver on our value proposition. And these things don’t happen naturally. It’s the leadership job to make sure that systematically you communicate what I call strategic intent. When I say intent, intention is something that you should have in the back of your mind when you take everyday decisions. Which means that if I did my job well as a leader I can take a vacation of one month with no reception and I can trust my people to take decisions in line of my intention because I did a good job communicating it. This is very similar to what we are taught in the Army, in the Army we’re taught that we are going to be given the commander’s intent and the commander will not tell us how to do the job how to deliver the mission they will just give us their intent. Obviously before that they trained you well enough to find the right tools and methods to deliver on the intent.

Jim Rembach: So then you have to actually go into the organizational design aspects of it.

Eric Kish: Sure. So now the second discipline is what I call behavioral fit. Behavioral fit is finding—what do you need in your organization in terms of behavioral profiles? What is the behavioral profile of a role that you’re trying to put in that organization? And then match people with that role. Because if you have people playing in behavioral comfort zones they will be happier, more motivated, highly energized, and that’s exactly what you’re looking for in the bad times because that’s when you can stretch your organization. If you are naturally in a place of comfort in your behavior you will spend much less energy to deliver the same goods.

Jim Rembach: So then that gets into the people aspects of the model.

Eric Kish: That’s the people aspect of the model. Then the next one it’s called tactical readiness. Tactical readiness is habits it’s basically habits of your organization to be adaptable. These habits need to enable a couple of things, one is situational awareness the second one is create opportunities to adapt and third is create opportunities to learn. Many people talk today about fail fast, fail cheap, that’s the best learning method you can ever have. Especially when you’re going into an unexplored territories what you want to do is you want to fail fast and fail cheap. But you have to create the organizational rituals that capture the knowledge out of these experiments and that’s what I call tactical readiness.

Jim Rembach: And one of the things that you talk about in the book is that this particular model isn’t necessarily for a startup per se. However, with the way the things are so rapidly at change whether it’s competitive landscape or whether it’s technologies or whether it’s consumer or customer expectations or even of employee expectations it seems to me like they would go from that startup phase to this every day turnaround framework quite rapidly.

Eric Kish: Oh, absolutely. Organizations are living animals. They’re living things and you keep inflection points very fast. You’re a five people organization is very familiar everybody sits in the same office etcetera all of a sudden you have sales coming through the door and you need to grow to 20 all of a sudden friction goes up exponentially so you already hit your first inflection point then you need to put manufacturing in place the next inflection point. Again friction does not grow in a linear manner it grows like—I use usually the metaphor of the sound barrier up to the sound barrier you can fly with normal planes and the friction will go up linearly. All of a sudden when you approach the sound barrier friction goes almost vertically up and it puts so much pressure on the frame that it breaks the frame therefore you have to redesign completely the frame. This is what I’m talking about when you’re up in inflection point you have to be able to adapt and learn from it very fast because once you’re going up you’ll crash.

Jim Rembach: Actually going through and listen to you talk looking at the book looking at the model you talk about the culture all of that is that it seems to me that you can also have a situation where somebody especially at a higher position or level of authority is the one who’s actually adding most of the friction to the organization.

Eric Kish: Absolutely. And what you want to do—I test myself if I do a good job by taking vacations and I forbid everybody or anybody to contact me. By the way, they have the keys of the business when I leave they can take decisions of millions of dollars but I know that if I did my job well if I communicated my intent and if I prepare them for battle they will take the right decisions without me. One of the key things I say—preparing is one thing but the second thing that is not so obvious is when to get out of the way of your own organization and when should you recognize that now these guys can play without you and you should do more strategic stuff than micromanage.

Jim Rembach: Most definitely. Well, talking about the friction, the transformation, the turnaround all of those things it is just loaded with emotion. One of the things that we look at on the show are quotes to help kind of drive us and push us in a better direction. Is there a quote or two that you can share that you like?

Eric Kish: Yeah. Well, sure and it comes from my past as a tank commander. I served in the Israeli Defense Forces in the armored corps and I read a lot of military history but one of my favorite quotes is, “Don’t fight the battle if you don’t gain anything by winning it” and that’s from Irvin Rommel the world war II German Tanks Commander. So I pick my battles very carefully.

Eric Kish: When you’re talking about that I have to go back to the whole friction thing it seems like from a friction perspective especially when you’re going through a tumultuous time people could easily say that everything is friction everything is severe I’m trying to fight every single battle. How do you prevent people from doing that? Well, first of all you force them to rank. Remember my ten levels? You’re forced to say what is my pain level? The moment you’re starting to mentally think about the problem you’re now realizing that maybe it’s not so important and other things are more important. My job is to support the high value friction removal rather than low value friction removal and that’s where I put my efforts. I cannot fight more than one or two battles at a time it’s just humanly impossible and an organization cannot fight on three in two fronts history showed that this doesn’t work.

Jim Rembach: That’s a very good point. I often see that even in a start-up scenario especially when resources are strapped in transitions all of those are extremes where the anxiety and all of that is very high is that people don’t go back to say, okay let’s fortify our defenses and try to mount an offense by focusing in on just one or two things instead of five.

Eric Kish: Yeah, and one of the things that the leader has to do is he has to inspire confidence. So, things fall apart all the time around you startups you never know what’s tomorrow you’re like living between heaven and hell every day and you have to make the difference between what matters and what’s not. In my military training we had something like, if you’re not sure then attack if you don’t know exactly which one is the most important, then your first reaction should be to go on your own attack. Pick one thing and go forward with it and for some magical reason the universe will start conspiring for you, let’s put it this way. But you simply cannot fight many battles and people cannot understand too many battles then it will become like today this is important tomorrow this is important. They need to have an overall goal which is what I call the strategic intent, our intent is to do this.

I am running now a company and half of them are PhDs, half of them IT, very, very smart people, but they’ve never ran a company before and my role is to teach them how this works. It is very interesting how we have these discussions about what is our overall goal? And they say, well to create the greatest material in the world. And I say, well I don’t think so I think our goal is high-value exit because this is what our investors are looking for. So let’s start from how do we create value for shareholders which by the way you are part of that because it’s a start-up? And then we will figure out what needs to be done to get a high valuation at exit. This kind of shifts their minds and they understand now it’s not only about the science it’s about how do you value the science? How do you make somebody come and have three bidders at the table feeding on the company and raising the value of the company?

Jim Rembach: That’s a very good point because if it was just on doing what their first intent was that’s when you stay in school and just teach.

Eric Kish: Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Jim Rembach: So looking at—you’re growing up, and your childhood and your father defecting your immigration your mother and your sister and starting your CEO career at an early age and all of these transitions and maneuvers and I’m sure you had a lot of humps to get over. Is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

Eric Kish: I do. Actually one of my biggest successes was turning around the refinery—a bankrupt refinery back in 2001. With private equity money I took private refinery at $7 million market gap. Now, I have to just remind you that the new refinery is about a billion dollars but the reason the market cap was seven million dollars because the refinery was loaded with debt, no inventory and by the way the market conditions were very bad. Refining businesses everywhere we’re losing money left and right and refineries were closing one after the other so nobody wanted to invest in this industry. But then the assets were cheap crazy people like us who thought that they can turn around something bought assets at the very low valuation. I was sent there, I was 36 years old I had very little experience in the oil business, by the way. Needless to say that the level of skepticism in the company when I arrived was very, very high. They basically gave me like 90 days to crash and burn and I realized very fast that knowing how to refine oil is not my job there are enough people in the refinery who know how to do that. So my intent was to make money.

Remember the exit? What I thought that my main job was I entered in an organization that was formerly state-owned, kind of top-down micromanaged, I’m talking about 4,000 people here, so it was not a small company. And then I realized that we will only be able to get out of this mess if we will put everybody’s minds to work. And to put everybody’s minds to work you have to free their initiative so there was a major cultural shift in nine months. And then the test moment happened, nine months into my job we had to stop because all the permits in the refinery were expiring and we had to do a revamp on all the installations. About ten days into this revamp I’m getting a call that my biggest most important installation, which is something that extracts sulfur out of gasoline, basically exploded under water pressure testing. So, we’re going there looking at this 20 stories power very, very high unit with a huge crack in it and I’m basically lost I have no idea what to do. Two days of agonizing meetings we realized that a new one would take about a year and a half to put up and about maybe 3 4 million dollars we looked for secondhand ones but nobody wanted to sell them to us because they wouldn’t guarantee the steel so basically I was like, okay, we’re going bankrupt I have no option here this was like my biggest installation.

And then I remember to this day Monday morning I come to the office and I see an engineer in front of my office an engineer from maintenance. And he says, boss I think I have an idea but I have good news and bad news. Well, okay, give me the good news first. He says, I think I found a tower with a steel that we need in a refinery that is being cut for scrap metal on the other side of the country. I said great, why don’t we go and see it. He says, yeah, that’s where the bad news comes in the scrap metal was bought by gypsies which control the scrap metal trade in the region and you have to negotiate with a tribal leader which is called Bowie Basha. And I’m like, okay, I’ll do anything I’m so desperate. So I fly there I go to the basic rituals we drink together we smoke together we talk about our lives together and then eventually he says, I think you came here to buy that power so I want $200,000 for it, people expect to in that region to negotiate everything so you cannot go with the sticker price. So I say no, no, no this is way too expensive, remember the new one cost like 3 million dollars?

We start to negotiate and then at some point he says, I understand you look like a very serious guy I understand you don’t like the price but what if I give you two of them for $250,000? And I’m like, whoa two of them would be like quadrupling my desulphurization capacity which was unheard of in the entire region. Long story short, I paid the guy cash, $250,000. We rush these things into the refinery three months later one of them it’s up goes perfectly in production two months later the second one is up. And long story short we become the best refinery in the region and we IPO at 450 million dollars three years later. So now I’m telling people that actually a bunch of gypsies and one smart engineer saved my career. But the lesson that I learned is that there is so much knowledge in a company that you go in and you just have to release their minds make them be able to speak up and make sure that they will be listened that’s a major cultural shift. And boy, what ideas these guys come with? They basically do the job for you.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s a really good point, that’s a great story. When you started talking about the timeline and you’re talking about you’re actually not generating any revenue at the time and then you had 90 days before that was installed and so—how we’re you guys able to actually stay focused and actually take care of the people who are working there. Because for me—you don’t have any money you’re already broke, how did that happen?

Eric Kish: Well you see that’s where the leader has to show confidence. You cannot show that you’re not confident in the future. You don’t have to see you know you have the solution. You have to say, guys it’s never as bad as it looks like, never as bad as it looks like let’s come in and let’s put our minds together and find whatever solution whatever crazy solution you have. My role as a leader is to support you in experimenting to find the right solution. So have the courage to come forward and you will be supported and rewarded, so that’s my role.

And in the 90 days we actually had to go back to our employees and say we have to cut 30% of your wages overnight and we had an instant strike by the way that was my first strike well I had like a thousand people in my courtyard shouting at me and I had two weeks of negotiations to convince them that we need to survive and we cannot survive without their help and they need to make sacrifices so they can save their jobs and they did that and then they were very well rewarded later on because most of them were also shareholders.

Jim Rembach: Very good. When I start thinking about that learning at such an early age and how it has carried forward to what you’re doing now to writing the book and helping so many other organizations with something that I feel is growing at an ever-increasing rate. What I mean by that is more and more organizations have not transitioned and they’re getting to the point to where it’s getting to be crisis levels and their pain as being more severe so I think but fortunately for you there’s a lot of need in what you’re actually teaching right.

Eric Kish: Oh yes, and that’s why I was kind of swept into this. The book I wrote because I felt the need to write it but once I wrote the book I got so many requests for speaking engagements or workshops I was just blown away how sensitive this issue is now in these days where the future is so uncertain and things move so fast around you.

Jim Rembach: So, when you start thinking about all of these things that you have going on and we talked a moment ago about your having a lot of travel and just going all over the place and working with a lot of organizations, but if you had one goal just one what would it be?

Eric Kish: Well, I’m currently running my twelfth turnaround it’s very rewarding but I believe it’s my last one I’m 54 years old I believe now it’s my time to teach. I found out that I like to teach so that’s why I wrote my first book and I entered the speaker circuit. So my goal is to develop a practical body of knowledge that can be used in any company willing to survive and thrive in these turbulent times that’s my goal.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

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Jim Rembach: Alright, here we go Fast Leader legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Eric, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Eric Kish, are you ready to hoedown?

Eric Kish: Yes I am.

Jim Rembach: Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Eric Kish: Well mostly patience. I’m a very patient person and over the years I learned that life is like surfing you have to wait for the right wave to ride it on right. So patience is what I work every day on.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Eric Kish: This is the advice I got from the guy who hired me to do my first turnaround. He said, with money everybody knows how to do it show me you can do it without asking for more money. In other words use creativity and execution discipline to solve a problem instead of just throwing money at it.

Jim Rembach: What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Eric Kish: Well I preach in practice development of organizational adaptability and once I’m done with it the secret is to get out of the way of my own organization.

Jim Rembach: What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Eric Kish: The best tool I ever learned and unfortunately I didn’t learn it at the business school is behavioral science. I use specifically a tool called predictive index and that helps me to understand behavioral drives and predict behavior of the people I live.

Jim Rembach: What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners and it could be from any genre, of course, we’re going to put, Everyday Turnaround, on your show notes page as well.

Eric Kish: Thank you. The book I warmly recommend is called, Adapt Why Success Always Starts with Failure by Tim Harford.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/EricKish. Okay Erick this is my last Hump day hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Eric Kish: I would absolutely choose the skill of understanding behavioral drives. It’s a science and should be part of every leader’s education from the very beginning. Unfortunately it took me about 10 years to realize that.

Jim Rembach: Eric it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you?

Eric Kish: Sure. I have a website called everydayturnaround.com and my book is also available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all the usual places.

Jim Rembach: Eric Kish, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

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