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Steve Pacinelli | Rehumanize Your Business

236: Steve Pacinelli: It’s the beginning of rehumanizing business

Steve Pacinelli Show Notes Page

Steve Pacinelli was in a rut for the first several years in his career. Then he began to work with a leader that showed him that is was possible to get “the numbers” and do it in a more compassionate, kind and friendly way. His career really started to skyrocket when he learned to care more about people and less about the numbers.

Stephen Pacinelli (Steve) grew up in southeastern Pennsylvania with his Mom, Dad and two older sisters, Jennifer and Aimee. Jennifer, 9 years his senior, acted like another Mother figure for Steve. The relationship dynamic was less of an annoying sibling relationship and more of a mentor relationship. She would take Steve everywhere she went, and he loved spending time with her.

However, Aimee, 4 years his senior, fit the bill for good ol’ sibling strife…. in a good way. She taught Steve how to handle conflict in a mutually beneficial way which suited him well later on in life. Aimee was born in Korea and adopted by our family. One of the things that Steve remembers most from his childhood is the constant teasing she would receive for being different in a predominately white neighborhood. There were some important early lessons that Steve picked up on about people, their fears, compassion (or lack-there-of), and kindness.

From an early age, Steve was a salesperson, a marketer. He also had a love for magic and being on stage performing. This required constant trips into Philadelphia to the only magic shop, about 40 miles away, to hone his craft. Negotiating, marketing, and selling was key in getting his parents or sisters to make the trek, then spend hours at the store while he learned new tricks and bought new props.

Almost every job Steve had, from his teenage years straight through to adulthood, were sales jobs – sneakers, knives, cars, long-term care and finally software. Sales is similar to performing magic. You need a compelling story. You need to make someone believe something that they probably didn’t at the outset of the interaction. It needs to be mutually beneficial for both parties. It should be fun. Magic and sales require time devoted to the craft. Proper setup and preparation are crucial to a smooth process. Finally, you need to be in front of the right audience or it won’t be beneficial for either side.

Contrary to some beliefs, sales can be done in a kind, empathetic, and fearless manner. Those are also the qualities that he wants his kids to embody in anything they do. That’s what he wants to pass on to Grant, Owen, and Sophia, his three curious, silly, and loving children. Grant and Owen and 8-year-old identical twins and Sophia is 5. He resides in Downingtown, Pa with his amazing wife, Gretchen. He’s extremely proud of the little life they built out of love and happiness.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @stevepacinelli of @bombbomb to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet 

“Any interaction that ends with a “yes” or a “no” is a sale.” Click to Tweet

“We are conditioned to communicate face-to-face.” Click to Tweet  

“When the messenger is removed from the message the thrust behind the message is also removed.” Click to Tweet  

“If you are dealing with someone and any type of emotion, positive or negative is involved, that is a perfect opportunity for sending them a video.” Click to Tweet 

“Negative news or bad information or an apology is done so much better through video.” Click to Tweet  

“It’s scientifically proven that bad news takes longer to process.” Click to Tweet  

“Almost every person communicates better face-to-face because you’ve been doing it from the moment you were born.” Click to Tweet  

“Your imperfections are your perfections.” Click to Tweet  

“You are the differentiator and video is a mechanism that gets you face-to-face with more people, more often.” Click to Tweet  

“If you don’t have a great message video isn’t going to help you.” Click to Tweet

“The human brain has a need for completion.” Click to Tweet  

“Show people that you care first and listen, shut up.” Click to Tweet  

“The more curious people are the more motivated they are.” Click to Tweet  

Hump to Get Over

Steve Pacinelli was in a rut for the first several years in his career. Then he began to work with a leader that showed him that is was possible to get “the numbers” and do it in a more compassionate, kind and friendly way. His career really started to skyrocket when he learned to care more about people and less about the numbers.

Advice for others

Overcome your fears and push through.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

I need to spend more time on developing my leadership skills.

Best Leadership Advice

Show people that you care first and listen, shut up.

Secret to Success

I have a curiosity that drives my passion.

Best tools in business or life

Zoom

Recommended Reading

Rehumanize Your Business: How Personal Videos Accelerate Sales and Improve Customer Experience

Pre-Suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence and Persuade

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Revised Edition

Thinking, Fast and Slow

Contacting Steve Pacinelli

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenpacinelli/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/stevepacinelli

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/steve.pacinelli

Resources and Show Mentions

Marketer as Philosopher

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

 

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

236: Steve Pacinelli: It’s the beginning of rehumanizing business

 

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader podcast where we uncover the leadership life hacks that help you to experience breakout performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host customer and employee engagement expert & certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach. 

 

Call Center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills and the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen. So go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path e-book now.

 

Okay Fast Leader legion, today is going to be a fantastic episode because we’re going to get in to some things that are actually going to question what you’ve been doing in order to be able to connect with people from a customer experience perspective sales and service perspective. 

Steve Pacinelli grew up in southeastern Pennsylvania with his mom, dad and two older sisters Jennifer and Amy. Jennifer, nine years of senior acted like another mother figure for Steve the relationship dynamic was less than an annoying sibling relationship and more of a mentor relationship. She would take Steve everywhere she went and he loves spending time with her. However, Amy four years his senior fit the bill for good old sibling strife, but in a good way. She taught Steve how to handle conflict in a mutually beneficial way which suited him well later in life. 

 

Amy was born in Korea and adopted by his family. One of the things that Steve remembers most from his childhood is the constant teasing she would receive for being different in a predominantly white neighborhood. There were some more important early lessons there that Steve picked up about people, their fears, compassion or the lack thereof, and kindness. From an early age Steve was a salesperson of Ana marketer. He also had a love for magic and being on stage performing. This required constant trips into Philadelphia to the only magic shop which is about 40 miles away to hone his craft. Negotiating, marketing, and selling was key in getting his parents or sisters to make the trek then spending hours at the store while he learned new tricks and bought new props.

 

Almost every job Steve had from his teenage years straight through to adulthood were sales jobs. He had sneakers, knives, cars, long-term care, and finally software. Sales is similar to performing magic you need a compelling story you need to make someone believe something that they probably didn’t at the outset of the interaction and it needs to be mutually beneficial for both parties and it should be fun. Steve is the chief marketing officer at BombBomb and co-author of Rehumanize Your Business: How Personal Videos Accelerate Sales and Improve Customer Experience. Steve believes that contrary to some beliefs sales can be done in a kind empathetic and fearless manner those are also the qualities that he wants his kids to embody in anything they do. That’s what he wants to pass on to Grant, Owen and Sophia, his three curious, silly, and loving children. Grant and Owen are eight-year-old identical twins and Sophia is five. He resides in Downington, Pennsylvania with his amazing wife Gretchen and he’s extremely proud of the little life they built out of love and happiness. Steve Pacinelli are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

I’m ready, Jim, thank you for having me on the show. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I’m glad you’re here and I’m looking forward to this conversation in so many different ways. I’ve given my Legion a little about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   My current passion has been my passion for a while is video and communication through video. Because before I came to BombBomb, I was actually a customer for four years exploring the topic using it with my sales team communicating more effectively with video all the way back to 2011. And so we were trying to figure out how to convert these online leads at the time. We had the sales team and we had a road show to 48 city, we had a 48 city tour, and we’re like, how can we supplement our road show? Well, let’s do online leads and we weren’t converting any of those leads. I started using video and sending out videos and not just videos demoing the products we were selling but videos introducing our sales people and connecting them as real people and making sure that the online lead was a real person—showing them our sales person was a real person and then facilitating that sale. Over the next four years I had such a passion for video that BombBomb, like wait a second, you need to come work for us let’s join forces here.  Ever since then my passion has been video communication and the psychology behind video communication and why it works and how long the video should be and the types of words that you should use. Because it’s different from telephone communication it’s different from email communication and it’s different from face-to-face communication.

 

Steve Pacinelli:   There’s so many things that you talk about and as you explain that I would love to go into but I think now we get into a workshop. I want to hit it a high level and really stop for those people that are saying, well, I’m not in sales because I can tell you that when you have an opportunity to read this book and also listen to these things that we’re talking about this is not about sales and it’s not about service it’s really about all of it which ultimately leads to relationships and I think that’s the key that we need to focus in on here.

 

Jim Rembach:    Any interaction, I took this from Chris Vos’s I was listening to one of his podcasts this week, I don’t know if you if you read his book about negotiation, any interaction that ends with a yes or a no is a sale. If there’s a yes or no you’re convincing somebody. Whether you’re speaking to an employee, a manager, a colleague, a potential client, or just a relationship anything that ends with yes or no it has an element of sales involved and videos can help you in all those scenarios especially with your employees. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Also we’re talking about it being a more globalized world. We have dispersed workforces, even when I see it in in the contact center world that I spent so much time in, you have many customer care and support operations, internal sales operations, that nobody is in any type of unified single location they’re all over the darn place.

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Right. And we’re zooming right now we’re on zoom, I can see you. I worked remotely at every job I’ve ever held since I graduated college which has been 20 years now on every single job and it’s been easier to work remotely in the past eight years ten years than it’s ever been. I’m the CMO of BombBomb and BombBomb’s in Colorado Springs and I’m in Philadelphia. 

 

Jim Rembach:    That‘s a great point. One of the things in the book to me that I just really was sucked in to the data that you were revealing and the realities associated with the millennia of human brain training, can you share with others what that really means?

 

Steve Pacinelli:   We’ve been speaking for about 100, depending on who you believe, for about 150,000 years. We’ve been writing for about 5,000 years. Most people have been reading because most people couldn’t read for the majority of humankind for about 500 years. And so when you look at that the way that we communicate we are conditioned to communicate face to face. We’ve been doing that so much longer than reading something in a book for that matter but especially reading something on a screen or on a phone. And someone decided 25 years ago that—and here’s the next day this is probably the most important date out of all those because it’s the most recent, but 20 to 25 years ago someone decided that our most important business communication was going to be relegated to the text on your screen and it’s going to be sent through email or it’s going to be sent through text messaging which removes the most important part of any message which is the messenger. 

 

When the messenger is now removed from the message the thrust the meaning the emotion behind the message is also removed and that’s really been the biggest turning point. And so we’ve been communicating that way ever since and we’re missing out on tonality we’re missing out on cadence and rhythm of speech we’re missing out on body language we’re missing out in just the way that you show that you’re paying attention with somebody or to somebody by looking them in the eye and there’s so much natural and rich communication that’s been removed in the past 25 years.

 

Jim Rembach:    That actually causes me to really stop and think about something that I’ve been working on here recently, I had shared this with you off mic. I’m currently doing virtual summits as well and what we’re doing is flipping, the typical concept of an event and in converting it into a learning system. Oftentimes when we go to any type of conferences or events it’s like a one-and-done, hey, I went there I attended a particular education class and I’m done and boom I can’t do anything with it anymore.

 

Steve Pacinelli:   And now I’m not going to implement anything I learned. 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Exactly right. And I also too—talking about hectic schedules people can’t get out and do those things but I don’t get into that real deeply. So I have the contact center virtual summit and we have the CX success summit, which is about customer experience more to enterprise level. I do load much like we’re doing here an interview format with these experts talking about these subjects and topics and I get just as much feedback on me as an interviewer and a moderator as the subject matter topic itself. And I have found that to be quite amazing but it leads right into what you’re talking about.

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s funny another Matthew Brodsky who was conducting some research for Harvard on video communication for us and we gave him I think, 500, these numbers were accurate, about five hundred customers and he was tracking all the video communication. One of the most interesting elements about video communication wasn’t just the way that the recipient felt about the sender because you think, oh, I’m going to send Jim I’m going to send you a video and I’m going to wave and say hi and introduce myself, if you were  a new leader a new employee or something but it’s the way that the sender it changed the feelings that even the sender had about the recipient. When someone shows vulnerability and when people get on camera like this they get scared they get a bit nervous and when you’re vulnerable with someone else it connects you to that other person and it’s actually a two-way street. So as you’re interviewing and as you’re doing these virtual interviews the relationship is being built on both sides.

 

Jim Rembach:    I think that’s an extremely important point that we all need to really think about when we start talking about—really in the book you say outsmarting our mental shortcuts. So you talked about the dual theory of the mind, what is that exactly? 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, a great book, and it breaks the mind down into two parts and he calls it the system one and system two. System one is the emotional side of your brain. It’s that gut feeling that you get when you meet someone and within like a second you’re like, oh, yeah I like that person. But you don’t know why right it’s the part of your brain that you don’t have access to he calls it also the primitive or other people also call it the primitive part of the brain. And then you have system two, that’s the analytical side of your brain. The side of your brain that is thinking everything that you’re thinking right now you know your thoughts and the part that you have control over. System 1 and system 2 together most people think that system 2 makes the decisions, it’s the analytical part of your brain. I was about to say buying decisions but again it’s not just for sales not just for buying it’s making decisions but system 2 is a slave to system 1. Because it always starts off somewhere on a level and you always start off with a feeling and then system 2 comes in and adjusts from that initial level. And so the only way for system 1 to be active—so if I send you an email, Jim, and I type it out and let’s say it’s an interdepartmental email or I’m conveying some new information or scary information to my employees and I type out that email only system 2 is engaged for that recipient so they’re not feeling anything they don’t have a place to start on that scale they have no emotion to go off of. So what ends up is however that recipient is feeling, and this is why messages can be interpreted in so many different ways, because if that message went out to 15 people in that department and John had a fight with his wife this morning Susie had problems with the kids getting out the door and then Mary had an amazing day they are starting that conversation they are reading it and the analytical part of the brain with whatever they’re feeling at the time and that’s where that conversation starts for them.

 

Now the difference is by sending it through video you can start with that system 2 or the system 1 in place and get that emotion across and they can see if you’re happy, if you’re excited, if you feel confident, in delivering that news it could be bad news but are you confident and do they see it in your eyes and now you can deliver that message with the intended emotion behind it and you’re not leaving it up to the recipient to decide how you’re feeling. If you ever had an email misconstrued, which everybody has, then you know how it can work.

 

Jim Rembach:    Absolutely. In the book you talk about several different case studies associated with everything that you’re talking about here and it gets also into the science and you mentioned at a moment ago as far as length this that and the other you even mentioned something about the different types of communication style like highly transactional that is going to be left in neo left for text and short messaging and things like that. What I’m getting into things that require that complexity component that connection component that relationship component if I want referrals if I want customer retention if I want a better customer experience I really need to be incorporating all of this video and face based communication.  I say face because that comes in a lot of different forms and formats into our (15:13 inaudible)

 

Steve Pacinelli:   I love how you put that I don’t think we put that into the book, face based in communication. We always say face to face but that sounds better wish I would have had that in there. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Let me copy right there real quick before you. And so we’re sitting here and saying is this right for me and in Chapter four you talk about the six signs this new approach is for you and your business. Could you kind of just run through those a little bit because for me I think that’s also important for us to talk about so that people don’t have a misperception about this.  

 

Steve Pacinelli:     I’ll go through in my opinion what are the most important ones. If you are, and they’re two which could which could go either way, if you are dealing with someone and any type of emotion whether positive or negative emotion is involved that is a perfect opportunity for sending them a video. Because again, and for the last example that we just gave, you can start off that conversation at the emotional level that that is required for that particular conversation. If you’re trying to build trust if you’re trying to build rapport with someone –so for example, if your sales team does have a brand new lead that comes through the door then rather than just typing up a text response show them that you care hit the record button send them a twenty second video does wonders for supplementing the text information that you were already going to send out. Hey, Jim, thank you so much for checking out the website I just want to let you know that I’m a real person I’m here to help if you have any questions I can handle any questions that you have in the meantime check out blah, blah, blah, blah below and you send that message out. 

 

When someone’s deciding to work with the company or not they need to know if they can trust that company if the values aligned with that company and they can only do that through the people at the company. And so if you had a chance to get face-to-face with someone earlier and more often would you do it and that’s really the value of video. And so trust, rapport, anytime emotion is involve like I mentioned and if you want to get into a really good one negative news or bad information or an apology is done so much better through video than over the phone through email or in person. Do you want to touch upon this now or keep–? 

 

Jim Rembach:    Oh, please do it. 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   This is one of the most interesting ones. Negative information or bad news is more psychologically compelling than good news. I’ll give you a scenario here Jim where I’m sure you’ve experienced this before where you gave someone some bad news and one of two things happened they either sat there in silence and they’re trying to process and they’re thinking and you’re like, what do you think? What do you think? And you need an answer and they’re not providing an answer. Or it’s the exact opposite end of the spectrum and what happens? They go off the handle, what’s going on? I can’t believe this. And it’s because they don’t have time to process that information scientifically proven that bad news takes longer to process. One of the things that we talked about in the book and then we talked about in our presentations as well is when you have bad news to give you want to give someone that time you want to give them the luxury of the time to process without providing an answer so they can process it emotionally then process it analytically as well and process it rationally. If you send a video, here would be a great example, we have a lot of real estate clients so I’ll just use a real estate example, if a real estate agent has to tell their client that they think they should have a price reduction to their home not the best news ever they would send a video first and they would say, hey, Jim, start off with a little personal note, hey I just wanted to let  due to this that and this I am going to recommend that we lower the price to your home to this because of—being one of most powerful words in the English language, because of this this and this. I’m in a meeting or I’ll be in a meeting here this afternoon but I want to have a chance to talk with you about this, I’ll give you a call later on this afternoon.

 

Now what that does is you provided all the necessary informational points, you did it in a kind and empathetic manner through video which you can’t do through text and they weren’t required to give a decision or even respond, people don’t know how to respond right off the bat. If you have bad news to give and you follow that format and then you follow up with a phone call or an in-person meeting after you’re going to find that that phone call or in-person meeting is going to be infinitely better because they had a chance to truly understand the real reasons for your request and that can be giving bad information to an employee or anyone within your company.

 

Jim Rembach:    And to bolster that even further the same thing applies when we start talking about an escalation scenario in a customer care or customer support environment. If a customer’s upset and you need to escalate a call the person who that gets escalated to, whether they’re in a managerial position or just a recovery team, should not be trying to  get details about the situation right then and there because of the emotion just inflame it further. It’s a better practice to say, let me get some information, let me do some research, let me find out about that and get back to you because it allows for that diffusion to occur.

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Your goal there is to show them that your, one, listening and two you understand. They’re not necessarily looking for that immediate response.  Am I being heard? Obama, we have a saying, be seen be heard be understood and that’s what video allows you to do seen heard and understood and all human beings want to be understood. 

 

Jim Rembach:    That’s a great point. So then you talk about as well customer experience, so get into that a little bit because it’s so important for us the Fast Leader show.

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Throughout the entire customer experience lifecycle from where you start off, you don’t have a relationship with that person and it’s a lead and then you do have a relationship with that person it may be they signed up for your service or your product, following up regularly, and this is one of the top 10 times video beats text, at important moments of that relationship they have with that customer may be the day that they signed up. Sometimes I get an email every once in a while it’s like, hey, you’ve been with us for a year but most of the time that email is just like, hey, you’re being billed again and that’s the congratulations you’ve been with us for another year it’s here comes the bill. There’s scenarios where, again it doesn’t have to be long it doesn’t have to take a ton of time a 15-second video at that point in time when the bill—hey, your upcoming annual bill is coming up I just wanted to say Jim that we loved having you as a customer it seems like you’re getting massive value from our system we hope you absolutely love it. Just 15 seconds going out will make a massive difference. And then you were talking about if anyone has issues or problems, we have a cool Zendesk integration too which allows people to send videos out of that system which is pretty neat and time to resolution when video is used in certain scenarios is reduced by 70%. So you send a video and you’re reducing the amount of time and you’re reducing the amount of threads within the back-and-forth within that conversation as well. Video is not only about you and me looking at each other face to face but it’s about conveying information more effectively too and screen recording videos in that sense are immensely powerful.

 

Now it’s beneficial if the person can still see you in the bottom corner or if there’s a square or a box depending on whatever system you might be using to record your videos and then they can see your screen but if someone’s phoning in and they have an issue with your system or they don’t know how to do something showing them with a quick video on the screen and allowing them to see who’s teaching them is a powerful component too. The personal moments, the birthdays, the anniversaries, other great times to send personal videos where everyone’s just writing HPD on Facebook it’s like, great thanks for spending so much time wishing me happy birthday, a 15-second happy birthday video. We have clients that they only use video, Mark and Laura Anderson would be one of them, they’re out of Minnesota, their primary use of videos to send happy birthday messages and they sent over 4,000 of them. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Wow! 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   And they you benefit from that and that’s customer experience that is they’re sending it to their leads or sending it to their past clients or sending it to their prospects whenever they get a birthday that’s what they do and they make that connection and people are reminded why they like them.

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, when you start thinking about some of the barriers I think you bump into one of the biggest barriers in our society that is linked to a major phobia and fear and that is public speaking, talking about, oh, my gosh I’m on video, you can hear me and see me and I look this that and the other and that whole critical aspect and so therefore I’m not doing that. 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   So we communicate every person no matter who you—maybe I’ll give a point one percent on this, but almost every person no matter who you are communicate better face-to-face because you’ve been doing it from the moment that you were born. Babies can read faces and that’s also part of the book, babies can respond to faces and interactions. You did that at a very early age you did that every single day of your life you haven’t been writing business communication every single day of your life you are better at face to face communication. Once you know that there is a 99.9% chance that you are better at face-to-face communication then you know that this would be the right route to take now you just need to alleviate the fear in taking that route. There’s a number of things that you can do one. One of my favorite tips is if you’re just—actually before I give that let me back up for a moment—a lot of people when they think of video they think of marketing videos. They think of a green screen and drone or high-end digital SLR cameras and scripts and I am horrible at memorizing scripts I’m horrible at memorizing stuff in general. And I’m not good when I have a DSLR in front of me and I need to repeat verbatim word for word what the script that I carefully thought of and wrote out I’m awful at that and I get I still get nervous when I have to record marketing videos but the type of video that we’re talking about here, these are relationship videos. One, the level of fear is greatly reduced because you’re only speaking to one person it’s not designed for thousands and thousands of people that hit your website. Two, chances are you already know what you want to say because if you were there with that person face-to-face you would know what to say. If the new lead came in you would know what to say if it’s a client experience process you would know what to say if you want to congratulate someone on a promotion or a raise you know what to say so you don’t have to have a script. We do recommend that if you do forget like me, and I am kind of forgetful, it’s okay in the beginning your videos to write down like put down three bullet points or four write down the bullet points here. 

 

And then in the beginning your video say, oh hey Jim, there’s just three things and you point right to the bullet points and you put it back down. What this does is this gives you the okay and also notifies the recipient that when you’re looking down and away there’s a reason for that. Because if you don’t do that and I’m talking to you like this Jim, I’m not making any kind of connection because I’m reading the page. But if I’m looking at you and I say, yeah, and then the first thing that I want to talk to you about and you look back up it makes it natural it makes it normal. One, the style of video should be easier so it’s more approachable even for someone that’s afraid of being on camera. Two, if you’re still afraid of being on camera and you’re not comfortable with 15 30 second messages there’s some things that you can do directly before you record. One of them is to sit and just close your eyes and think about something that makes you happy. I know this sounds weird but it works and we do this in our training classes we have people send us a 30-second video on why they love doing what they do live during a training class we watch those videos and then we have them redo it and for 30 seconds before they do it they think about something that they’re grateful for they think about something that they’re happy about their family their kids etc., and then rerecord that video. The second video it’s not like two times better it’s like seven times better it is infinitely different because that’s when the emotion comes across and that’s all you’re trying to do. Mike, one of my favorite stories is my wife I she didn’t want to send video she was just like the listeners out there the watcher said she that don’t want to send video and I’m like, honey you’re married to the CMO of BombBomb, you need to use video it would be embarrassing. So she’s like alright. 

 

She sells skincare products and she was emailing someone in Westchester, Pennsylvania with a video and she had all the products in her hand and she dropped them during the video. And so she pops out of the frame and you can’t see her in the frame anymore she looks at me and I’m like, you keep going, just keep going. And she pops back into the frame and she’s like, oh my god, I’m so klutzy. She didn’t want to send the video at the end I click the send buttons, it went out and she got a call in 15 minutes. It was Susan and Susan was like, oh my god, never talked to Susan before ever this was only digital communication, she was like oh my god I love you I am so klutzy too this one time. And now Susan is actually one of her good friends and it all stemmed from your imperfections are your perfections embrace your mistakes embrace your stutters in a short one-to-one video you don’t want that in a marketing video. But if you make a mistake and stumble over your words that’s what endears you to other people. If they’re not going to think you’re not competent if you smile and you show that you’re real person you’re like, oh sorry about that, and you just keep on going because that’s what you do in real life and that’s what they’re trying to connect with.

 

Jim Rembach:    Well, I think the important point too to notice that if some people are put off by that you don’t want to try to do business with them anyway.

Steve Pacinelli:   Right, yeah, that’s a great observation Jim.

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, now you started talking about—and we’ve talked many times throughout this about the emotion component. You talked about getting your mind right and mindset right and hold appreciation and then doing your video. One of the things that we look at on the show in order to help get our minds right, focus in on some positives, are quotes, is there a quote or two that you like that you can share?

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Oh geez, as I just previously mentioned I am horrible with memorization of pretty much anything. But let me think—there’s so many quotes in this book and I remember all the main thrusts but one of my favorite books of all time is, Marketer as Philosopher by Flint McLaughlin and it’s under the radar kind of book. He didn’t produce it to sell a ton of copies because it’s 50 dollars or I might even be 60, it’s leather-bound like old-school like leather like you smell it it’s an experience and you feel it and the entire book is filled with quotes. I remember all the thrusts but I don’t remember the exact words there but it is definitely top three if not my favorite book of all time. It doesn’t really give you anything tactical it just gives you the broad view of marketing and connecting with people and it’s absolutely amazing. So if you want to find some amazing quotes go there. 

 

Jim Rembach:    That will work, and we’ll do that and we’ll also put that as a link on your show notes page. Okay, so needless to say when we start talking about this learning journey that you’ve gone through and you talked about it. I started here and got to here and now I’m working for the company right and along with that and as well as in life there’s humps that we have to get over in order to find our better direction and make some better decisions. Is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share? 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Yeah. I worked for a lot of different people in different environments and I wouldn’t say that the first people that I worked with and worked for were bad because they weren’t as leaders as mentors. I was shaped by kind of like a hardened business mentality because that was a salesperson everything’s about that number, there’s no touchy feely emotions that is how I grew up more or less. It wasn’t until that I met Max Pigman who mentored me. He’s an amazing salesperson he’s an amazing speaker he’s an amazing motivator he’s amazing a leader and he showed me that that you can drive and get to the numbers at the same time but you can do it in a more compassionate and kind and friendly way and he just exudes kindness. That was my first experience with that and that was a hump for me because I feel that my leadership style changed immensely and for the better after my relationship with him. He was a national speaker for realtor.com and I was the assistant national speaker and then when he left I became the national speaker and everything that he taught me there. That is when my career really started to skyrocket when I started caring more about people and less about the numbers because the numbers were the byproduct of caring about the people. And so I would say I was in a rut for the first 10 years or maybe 8 to 9 years in my career. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I kind of had that hard knock and once or twice as well and I could totally connect with that and I’m sure a lot of people can connect with. There’s a lot of studies talking about our impacts around our environment and the fact is that if we’re talking about engagement 70% of that variance engagement is because of the relationship they have with our direct supervisor or leader and so needless to say all of our behavior is definitely influenced by that as well. But when we start talking about influencing behavior when we start talking about doing things a little bit differently when you start talking about re-humanizing where are we now and where is this actually headed?

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Where are we now? We’re still in that in the early phases. I still go to sales conferences business conferences and video is still the new hot thing and a lot of it is still video for marketing purposes and that is not what we talked about in the book, we do a little bit 5%, but it’s video for relationship purposes. To that is still brand new and it’s still growing and people are still getting comfortable. Zoom has helped with that all the social media channels it’s funny that the younger generation and the Millennials they’re used to communicating through video through all the different social media networks and we find that they take to it pretty quickly. They’re comfortable popping on a camera and recording a 45 second message because they’ve been doing in their Instagram stories and everywhere else. So the wave is swelling right now on video communication and people are like, oh, well when we get saturated with video then videos not going to work anymore and that what’s really insane that’s where I would disagree. Video isn’t the differentiator at all. Now it still is because not enough people are doing it so just the fact that you’re doing it makes it the differentiator.  Just like a telephone when everyone had a telephone, telephones were fairly new or email marketing or something like that and now everyone’s email marketing it’s how well that you do it, and so video not being the differentiator you are and all video does it’s just the mechanism to get you face-to-face with more people more often. Now in the future could there be other ways of doing that and VR and virtual reality and other methods, sure, but where I think the future is going is refining video communication. 

 

When people sign up if they if they do sign up for BombBomb, I’ll see these four minute videos and they’re not structured correctly the messaging isn’t clear if you don’t have a great message video isn’t going to help you maybe they could connect with you a bit more. Absolutely that’s that whole emotional element but all those components need to be in line you need to have a strong message you need to connect with people emotionally you need to make sure that the video isn’t too long. If you send a five-minute video of just you talking to a new league they’re not going to watch that video. If you don’t open it the correct way, one quick tip one of the best ways I like to open my videos is, hey, Jim three quick things for this video. The reason for that is the same reason why you read and see blog posts everywhere that say the seven things because the human brain has a need for completion. And so they’ll go and they’ll look at one two three four five six seven, if you say three things and you listen to two it’s hard for you not to hear that third thing. And so little things like that it’s the refinement of our video communication and the feedback that people are going to get from whatever system that they decide to use, hey, you should send this style video, hey, you should do this in the beginning, hey, make sure you put your CTA at the head call this person now because they watched your video twice or they watched it in their entirety or they only watch 15 seconds of your video send this for a follow-up video and if that AI and that intelligence that’s going to start to come in based off of the actions and the responses from the videos that you’re creating.

 

Jim Rembach:    I appreciate you open up the door here and leading the way. And the Fast Leader legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor:

 

An even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award-winning solution is guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Alright, here we go Fast Leader legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Steve, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Steve Pacinelli, are you ready to hoedown? 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   I think so but my Enneagram score tells me that I’m not good at fast responses but let’s do it because I’m ready for a challenge.

 

Jim Rembach:    You’ll be fine. What is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Time. One of the things that I noticed in going through my annual review is we’re supposed to be spending 10% of our time on education company hour time. Now I spend more than that off hours but I definitely don’t spend 10% and I think investing into leadership skills and quality I need to do more of that.

 

Jim Rembach:    Along that lines, what is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Steve Pacinelli:   I’d have to go back to Max Pigmen, my previous example, and it’s show people that you care first and listen. Shut up. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success? 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   I have a curiosity about most things and that curiosity drives my passion. If I have a curiosity about video and how it works or curiosity about people. I find that the more curious people are the more motivated they are.

 

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Best tools…? I would say, Zoom, because I am remote. I could say BombBomb the easiest choice but I want to say Zoom because I’m remote and it’s a video communication platform it allows me to connect with all my leaders on the marketing team with other people throughout the company and that is the secret weapon. Don’t send a long email, call them up for three minutes on Zoom and convey it more clearly. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is one book that you’d recommend to our legion, it could be from any genre, of course we’re going to put a link to Marketer’s Philosopher and Re-humanize Your Business on your show notes page well.

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Let me let me choose a different one here and I think I’ll go with Influence by Robert Cialdini. I love psychology I love everything about psychology Daniel Kahneman would be up there too. And Thinking Fast and Slow and then Pre-Suasion by Robert Shelby.

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay Fast Leader Legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/StevePacinelli. Okay, Steve, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question. Imagine you were given the opportunity go back to the age of 25. And you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take it all you can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Oh, man, that’s a fun one. So what skill or knowledge…? Yeah, I think I’d go with, I don’t know if this is a skill, but motivation should just do it. There’s so many things that I hesitated on that I didn’t do that would have been successful if I wasn’t scared, so I guess it’s overcome your fears it just pushed through your fears. If I could convince myself at 25 to push through all the fears that I have I would be so much further along.

 

Jim Rembach:    Steve, it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you? 

 

Steve Pacinelli:   Absolutely and thank you for having me Jim. People can connect with me at bombbomb.com, of course. If you’re interested in checking out how video can help you communicate more effectively and get face-to-face more often. They can reach me online on LinkedIn at Steven Pacenelli or even Facebook or Twitter it’s Steve Pacinelli. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Steve Pacinelli, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO

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Kory Angelin | Sellout with a great experience

215: Kory Angelin: Experience is how you sellout of your products

Kory Angelin Notes Page

Kory Angelin was like many kids with parents that divorce. But unlike others key values were instilled in him that led to excelling in sales by emphasizing the customer experience. From fitness to finance, Kory teaches organizations to sellout out what they sell.

Kory was raised in Long Island, NY, along with his 3 other siblings, Kara, Keith and Kyle. He was the youngest one which led to always being competitive.

His father was a business man, accountant and graduated college in 3 years.  His Mother was a teacher for over 40 years and dedicated her life to helping others.  It was at this time where Kory learned the skills of hard work and dedication.

At a young age Kory could always be found competing in anything he participated in…i.e. school, sports and even trivial pursuit at home with his family.

Kory is known for having a range of skills that transfer to any industry including communication, accountability, execution and the ability to motivate others.  He believes that people don’t buy what you do but rather why you do it. It’s in that motto that Kory believes a salesperson must convey to their customer. A customer should not only focus on what you have to sell but rather why you want to buy it in the first place.

Kory is an Award-Winning Trainer and 2-time published author with over 25 years in the fitness industry. His most recent book is entitled #Sellout: How a Great Experience Can Help You #SELLOUT of Your Product. He has worked for some of the top fitness brands in the world teaching brand experience. His industry experience includes partnering with NIKE to launch their SPARQ Brand, worked with a variety of athletes from the NFL and NBA and has been featured in “Sports Illustrated”, “USA TODAY”, “Training & Conditioning” and “STACK” Magazines for his work in the fitness industry.  Kory has been an on-air host on QVC and is a sought-after motivational speaker.

Kory currently resides in Farmingdale, NY a village in Long Island with his wife Dawn and his son Kameron, who is a spitting-image of Kory – God bless him.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @koryfit to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“Two principles make or break someone, accountability and consistency.” – Click to Tweet

“What makes a differentiator in any industry or any brand is that they focus on the experience.” – Click to Tweet

“Whether you’re in sales or not, you’re really in sales.” – Click to Tweet

“Convincing is trying to sell; we’re all sales people at some level.” – Click to Tweet

“When not at work, athletes’ practice, almost everyone else that is in a job never really practices.” – Click to Tweet

“If you don’t believe in what you’re selling, you’re not going to be successful at selling it.” – Click to Tweet

“People will pay for something as long as they understand the value.” – Click to Tweet

“Sales is not an evil word.” – Click to Tweet

“Sales is a great thing as long as they have the right messengers.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Kory Angelin was like many kids with parents that divorce. But unlike others key values were instilled in him that led to excelling in sales by emphasizing the customer experience. From fitness to finance, Kory teaches organizations to sellout out what they sell.

Advice for others

Learn about more business and finance.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

The bandwidth to reach more companies outside of the fitness industry.

Best Leadership Advice

People don’t buy what you do they buy why you do it.

Secret to Success

More empathy goes a long way and much farther when someone says not to a sale.

Best tools in business or life

Asking a great open-ended question in any customer experience that allows the customer to speak longer.

Recommended Reading

sellout: How a Great Experience Can Help You #sellout of Your Product

Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action

Contacting Kory Angelin

Website: https://koryangelin.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/koryfit

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kory-angelin-21510aa3/

Resources and Show Mentions

The Future Project

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

 

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

215: Kory Angelin: Experience is how you sellout of your products

 

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

Call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen so go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path e-book now.

 

Okay Fast Leader legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s really going to help us get down to the essence and the most important thing in regards to us selling out. Kory Anglin was raised in Long Island, New York along with his three siblings Cara, Keith and Kyle. He was the youngest one which led always to being competitive. His father was a businessman and accountant and graduated college in three years. His mother was a teacher for 40 years and dedicated her life to helping others. It was at this time where Kory learned the skills of hard work and dedication. At a young age Kory could always be found competing in anything he participated in, school, sports, and even Trivial Pursuit at home with his family. Kory is known for having a range of skills that transfer to any industry including communication, accountability, execution and the ability to motivate others. 

 

He believes that people don’t buy what you do but rather why you do it. It’s in that motto that Kory believes a salesperson must convey to their customer. A customer should not only focus in on what you have to sell rather why you want to buy it and why in the first place.  Kory is an award-winning trainer and two-time publisher author with over 25 years in the fitness industry. His most recent book is entitled, Sellout: How a great experience can help you sell out of your product. He has worked for some of the top fitness brands in the world teaching brand experience. His industry experience includes partnering with Nike to launch their spark brand, worked with a variety of athletes from the NFL and NBA and has been featured in Sports Illustrated, USA Today, Training and Conditioning and STACK magazines for his work in the fitness industry. 

 

Kory has been an on-air host on QVC and as a sought-after motivational speaker. Kory currently resides in Farmingdale a village in Long Island with his wife Dawn and his son Cameron who is a spitting image of Kory–God bless him. Kory Anglin, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Kory Angelin:     I am so pumped up. I need to hire you wherever I do a speaking appearance you’re going to intro me. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I’d be glad to do that. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Kory Angelin:     I like myself, I believe that I just love helping others. It’s kind of cliché but when you’re in an industry that’s personable your entire life. I have interactions with people every day especially in the health and fitness field it really teaches you the power of what you can do and how you could change someone’s life every single day. 

 

Jim Rembach:    As you were talking I started also thinking about just kind of for me, being an old guy, just this year 50 this year, I workout four times a week and I start looking at different places where you can go and work out everything from the YMCA, private places to some of the chains and some of those places it’s kind of like that restaurant that you always see in your town it’s like it’s been 10 different things there must be a death nail. And so some of these Fitness places I’m like, how do some of them go through the January swell and the February flop when it comes to memberships and people exercising it’s like a very dynamic industry. So how do people differentiate in that industry, because I think it’s a huge learning opportunity for many years? 

 

Kory Angelin:     Great question. There are two principles I learned in business early on that makes or breaks someone. Whether it means coming to a gym or being successful as an (4:23 inaudible) indoor whatever industry you’re in and it’s accountability but more importantly its consistency. Yes you can go to the gym every single day in January because of course you have a New Year’s resolution that you want to get in shape but ultimately it doesn’t work if you don’t come in February. So that means planning on what you’re going to do to reach your goal. In my case it’s always been reaching some sort of health and fitness goal. It’s interesting because people say all the time, why do you write a book about sales you’re in the fitness industry? And I go, the fitness industry is one of the best industries to look at where you’re looking at a great salesperson, we don’t have something we can sell. In other words if I go to a watch salesman they could put a watch on me. I could feel the watch I could see the watch, but really what we’re selling is a dream. 

 

The reason why I became a great salesperson was just by chance because I learn the skills to build a great experience and then in return most people would buy something from me whether it was a personal training package or nutritional products or whatever the case may be. That’s really where I learned that skill set from. 

 

Jim Rembach:    As you were talking I even started thinking about how many financial institutions are doing the same thing whether it’s banking, insurance, investment banking, I mean they’re all trying to sell that that dream. And so when you start looking at the particular elements, you hit some of them, but when you start talking about experience you talked about accountability, how is that really a differentiator from one to the other?

 

Kory Angelin:     As you just said that I just thought of a great commercial I just saw to prove a point. I now back up for a second—many years ago I saw a study in a magazine it was called club industry magazine and they had a study done and the study was the top three reasons why someone joins a gym, it’s really the top three reasons why people buy stuff, but we’re going to relate it to a gym. Number one was customer experience. Number two was cleanliness. And number three was price. Most people however try to sell something based on price they’ll even use the words, we’re running a great sale today right or we just had Black Friday or Cyber Monday and these are typical days of the year where people go, oh, it’s Cyber Monday there must be great sales in other words thinking about the price. But what you’ll find is that great brands, to be a differentiator from other brands—let’s look at Apple, Disney, Starbucks, what they do differently to differentiate themselves from everyone else is they focus not on the money aspect. In fact, have you ever seen Apple run a sale? Never. They never run a sale. And the reason is because it’s because they’ve already built value. If you talk about Starbucks I’ll tell you the differentiator in Starbucks. Every single day no matter what state I’m in New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Maryland, Florida or Colorado, California I buy a cup of coffee from Starbucks twice a day. I don’t even like the coffee but do you know why I go to Starbucks twice a day? Because of the experience. If you look at that experience—you walk in first thing you see—what do you think the first thing you see in a Starbucks? What do you see the people doing?

 

Jim Rembach:    I don’t know.

 

Kory Angelin:     They’re sitting down and you’ll see them on their laptops they’re doing work they’re doing term papers some people go on dates and they meet at Starbucks some people do job interviews at Starbucks. So I noticed that first I noticed that you can get stuff done in your life at a coffee shop. I then get online and I see the people I’m back in the counter they’re actually working. I never see someone back of the counter texting someone on their cellphone they’re working. We even call them baristas, what a great name, baristas. And then we even speak Italian in Starbucks and I never take an Italian but you will see Kory Angelin online in Starbucks saying something like this, venti macchiato, that’s pretty powerful. And I go to Starbucks not for the taste of the coffee but for the experience. So what makes a differentiator in any industry or any brand is that they focus on that experience. 

 

The second thing I was going to tell you what you reminded me of there’s a commercial on right now for Capital One Bank. A bank right, right? What they decided to do, and you might have even seen this, is they built a Capital One cafe now. When you go to into a Capital One Bank it’s a café. And you know why they did that? To build a better experience. How powerful that is? It’s pretty powerful because I’m even remembering it right now, and I don’t even bank there. That’s how powerful a great experience can be a differentiator from everyone else. 

 

Jim Rembach:    For me when you when you’re talking and I’m starting to look at the marketplace and many of the conversations that I’ve had it it’s almost to me like sales is no longer sales, sales is experience expert. You talk about barista, I think we’re seeing this whole shift take place and now that goes into an issue that you actually mentioned in your book where you’re saying how so many people just aren’t really equipped or have the skills to really do selling. 

 

Kory Angelin:     Yeah, you know what’s real funny but you’ll appreciate since I’m from New York, whenever I do is speaking appearance the actual opening line I use I say, everyone in this room sucks in sales. And I say kiddingly of course, right? But the reason why I say that is they really do, if you think about it. And it’s not their fault, it’s because we don’t go to school to learn how to sell. I always tell a famous story, I majored in sports medicine at no point in my life in college did I walk into my anatomy and physiology class and the professor turns to us and says, today class we’re going to learn how to sell,  that never happened. Really where most of us learn how to sell is just through trial and error and most of the time it’s error because we don’t have that skill set. But what I find is that when I sit in front of a group and I give them a skill set I put tools in their tool belts to help them learn how to build a great experience how to ask great questions it really does make them better at sales. And what I find is that there are two types of salespeople, you have great salespeople and then you have everyone else.

 

Jim Rembach:     Okay as you were talking I started thinking about a couple different dynamics associated with that and how that number of people who are sucking at sales is probably increasing at an ever increasing rate. We talked about the loss of empathy, we talked about the rise of incivility in society and in the workplace and all these factors that the whole selfie generation and all these people younger people getting into the workplace that they haven’t really learned some of the emotional intelligence skills in order to be able to make that experiential connection with a lot of the people who they’re trying to get to buy or sell out their product. So when you start looking at those core elements and finding people who you can equip, what do you see down the road or is that being more difficult? 

 

Kory Angelin:     I am ready to do push-ups I am so pumped up that you just said that. There are two things to what you just said, there’s asking for the sale—they haven’t said no yet, and then there’s what if they say no you just hit the nail on the head. When you ask great questions—prior to you right about before you ask for the sale there’s something you need to do there are actual questions that you can do to activate a customer’s emotional part of the brain. I’ll give you a quick example, what’s your fitness goal, Jim? What’s your fitness goal, for real? 

 

Jim Rembach:    My fitness goal is to, I would dare to say have overall body strength, build stability. 

 

Kory Angelin:     Okay great. Here’s an example of a great question a salesperson would ask you to tap into the emotional part of the brain. How would it feel if you were able to achieve that goal? How would you feel?

 

Jim Rembach:    It would be a peace of mind…

 

Kory Angelin:     Good, stop right there. Do you see what I mean? Like right now you go into, wow, okay, and you start thinking about, and the middle part of the brain is the part that does that, the more times I can do that the more you’re going to trust me because I’m making you more emotionally adaptable to what I’m selling. The second part of that is which you actually hit the nail on the head was, what if you say no? The biggest skill set a sales person lacks when someone says no to a sale is empath. The first thing you do if someone says, I want to think about it, I want to talk to my spouse, I want to shop around, whatever the most common objections are is they need to come back with I totally understand, that should be the first phrase out of any sales person’s mouth but we lack that that’s the part we lack. So to your point those are two key principles right there to when you’re taking someone through a sales experience. 

 

Jim Rembach:    And as we’re talking and I’m thinking I’m like, with this are really have become core fundamental and foundational skills regardless of what you do. I mean it isn’t a scenario where you only need these skills and tactics because you’re a person who is accountable or selling. It is, hey, I need to get my colleagues to buy into my ideas I need to, heck, get my friends to try to do this vacation that we’re going to do together instead of that one because I like it or to do these things. All these core fundamental elements of selling and persuasion and influence and all of that is something that we all need to learn regardless of where we are. 

 

Kory Angelin:     We actually do it. We sell all the time which is laughable because I always tell people whether you’re in sales or not you really are in sales. Have you ever tried to get your spouse to go see a favorite movie of yours? Or get your friend to your point maybe to go to your favorite restaurant? And we’re selling them on an idea. We don’t know we’re doing that we’re trying to convince them but convincing is trying to sell. It’s funny in a way because we’re all salespeople at some level. And then that also transfers into an actual industry that you might be in what you’re really doing that on a daily basis. 

 

Jim Rembach:    It’s kind of funny I started thinking about my youngest son, he’s 10 years old but he’s created this really expert level a knowledge in regards to world geography, and I mean he’s just one of those things that’s focused in on and he was given a globe for his birthday and he just studied the globe part of that is I think kind of comes from you being one of the youngest and that whole competitive piece, he’s trying to keep up with his older siblings, but when he meets people he starts spewing all of his knowledge about geography and stuff try to gain acceptance. I’m trying to teach him, son okay, and he’s very empathetic he really is. I said, you need to lead with the empathy component not with the component of what your prowess and knowledge and skill is in world geography. Focus in on the other person and I’m trying to make sure that he does that. When I think about the education process that all of us go through we don’t learn that stuff. 

 

Kory Angelin:     No, not at all. 

 

Jim Rembach:    About the anatomy class, so how could we change some of this?

 

Kory Angelin:     We have to practice. We have to lean on podcasts and interviews and YouTube and read, who knows that people do that anymore unless it’s digital. But yeah, what I find funny when I get in front of a group of people and I’m teaching them sales philosophy is that you have to be like an athlete. Athletes who I’ve sat in front of and worked with professional athletes many of them in my career they practice. Even though they’re making millions of dollars when they don’t play a game they practice and yet almost everyone else that’s in a job never really practices. Some of these skills whether it’s asking great questions that activate the emotional part of the brain, or how to overcome objections, it’s great if you get in front of a guy like you or me and we can teach you the skill set but if you don’t practice it you’re not going to be better at it. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I think that’s a great point. We all need a coach we all need to practice. I get the opportunity to do that almost every single week by the guests that I have on the show, I love learning from you so thank you very much. But when we’re talking about all of these, the practice and the effort and all of that we need our motivators and one of the things that we look at on the show or quotes to help us with that. Is there a quote or two that you like you can share? 

 

Kory Angelin:     Absolutely. My favorite quote is by Simon Sinek, pretty famous leader in the industry and in business and he always says and talks about people don’t buy what you do they buy why you do it, so that’s the quote. What that really means is the goal should not be for a person to sell something to someone because of something that they have. If they sell something to someone because they believe in what you believe if you don’t believe in what you’re selling you’re not going to be successful at selling it. So a salesperson at a gym needs to believe in the gym of the membership that they’re selling. If they don’t even work out in that gym it’s hard for them to sell a membership at that gym and the same goes for a car salesman or whatever. 

 

An interesting thing I always like to say when I’m shopping for a car, I just got a Ford truck about a year ago, I asked a dealer what kind of car do you drive? Wouldn’t be great if he goes, I drive a Ford. But many times that’s not the case, so yeah you have to believe in what you’re selling. So I believe that’s one of the ways to do that. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I think that’s a great point as well it kind of gives you that idea of whether or not you can trust that person.

 

Kory Angelin:     Absolutely. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I think that’s a huge component in being able to influence and all that. But I would dare to say that for you I know the whole competitive component—being a younger sibling, you had a dad obviously who was really focused in on goals—graduating in three years and your mom helping others it’s a fantastic dynamic to grow up in but I’m sure it wasn’t all bliss you had humps you had to get over.

 

Kory Angelin:     Sure. The first hump was going back 20 30 years ago. I grew up until I was about 12 and then my parents divorced. It was a great divorce if that’s such a thing because really you would think they were still married so I was fortunate in that. But my older siblings who were much older than me really didn’t experience that because they were in college at that point and it obviously it had an effect on them. I remember as you bring up my father, a motivating factor, every time I played a sport specifically soccer he would offer me $3 for every time I scored. If you were to ask any of my siblings or me, what was my motivating factor growing up? It was money. So, as you were talking about that—but yeah, those are very common hardships, divorce or whatever in most people’s lives probably more people’s lives in less people’s lives nowadays. But from that point on one of the things I give my parents credit for is they always put the kids first, which is I think is a great life principle to go by, they still believe in dedication, communication, accountability all of those key principles. If you really think about it transcends to any industry not just family but those transcends even more to business specifically. I think that’s why I overcame some hardships and brought it to where I am today.

 

Jim Rembach:    I appreciate your sharing that. I have to ask because one of the things—we’re talking a lot about finding that emotional connection as a motivator and things like that and having the opportunity to interview so many different folks throughout the years is that—I hear that money should not be your motivator so while as a kid money can be really enticing however it doesn’t cause you to persevere and overcome. In other words, I don’t necessarily focus in on a process of becoming a better soccer player that I have to work on my foot trails I have to work on my—a lot of crazy things that I have to work on my conditioning and this and that in order to be able to get to the money, it’s that I just want the money. I would dare to say you’ve had to make that shift at some point, when did that happen?

 

Kory Angelin:     Sure, wow great point. Because if you really break down what I just said in a specific instance on a soccer field I can’t score and get that money unless I beat that other kid to the ball. So that man in my head I learned early on that I need to be faster, if I want more money I need to be faster. Well how do you be faster? You got a train every day. What do you do when you train every day? You have to do speed and agility drills. It’s no coincidence I became a speed and agility coach early on as a trainer that’s really my passion when it comes to fitness. There are things that you have to do we call it the cause and effect. Like you can’t reach the result unless—I always say look at your goal first or look at what result you want to have, great, but then there are steps you have to take so work backwards from that. If you want to lose 20 pounds that’s going to take 20 weeks. We need to focus on, okay, let’s work backwards and figure out how we get and then that really lays out a plan for you to your end result which is getting paid more, scoring a goal, or whatever the case may be. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I think that’s perfect and I think for me, right now I’m caught up into certain areas of discipline learning about human behavior and human dynamics a lot of decision-making and one of the places that I’m at right now is this whole self-discipline component of how do you create that because having and trying develop and help and support three growing adults is that man the whole self-discipline thing is tough it’s very tough. And so because they’re always talking and seeing the shiny object in the goal and they’re like, I want it, I want it, I want it. Whoa, whoa, back up back up let’s work backwards and I don’t want to do that because no, no I want it now. So I think that whole youth and wisdom thing don’t go together and so I’m trying to hopefully get that into them before they get too old and then they look back and they’re like, I wish I woulda coulda shoulda, but it’s not easy. So when

you start talking about working with organizations and helping them grow their business, how much are you having to have them take that step back to say, okay, let’s ground ourselves and really work the process or figure out the process?

 

Kory Angelin:     It’s very interesting. Some are really open to that and then some are just, let’s look at the bottom line here. Let’s run a sale we’re behind on even the number or whatever it is for the year but it is coming around and usually what happens is when I get in front of someone, or someone like me who’s this passionate about customer experiences I am, it’s much easier to turn that around. I recently talked to a food company that was looking to do something with me on social media. I felt myself pitching to them what I can do to scale their business. In my head though I’m passionate about really what I can do for them and it really was about tweaking their brand forgetting the price. Listen, people will pay for something as long as they understand the value, Hence, why I have a thousand dollar phone, an iPhone X, hence why I spend two thousand fifty cents on the coffee I don’t even like, hence, why I spend $175 to go to Disney for one day, people will pay. So when I get in front of someone and I explained to them that piece of it it’s a lot easier for them to agree to that and tweak the way they think. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I would dare to say with—talking about your job, talking about parenting, talking about the books, talking about the speaking and the consulting that you have a whole lot of potential targets as goals but if you were to say one of them, what is one of your goal you can share? 

 

Kory Angelin:     Great question. Just one? Wow. Okay, really I want companies or in any industry to understand that sales is not an evil word. There are companies that I know that they used to call their salespeople sales advisers and then now they call them something else because they’re afraid of the word. I hope that more companies take the message that sales is a great thing as long as they have the right messengers. And then if we can put more time and effort into the education of onboarding salespeople that would be my goal for–any company or individual. 

 

Jim Rembach:    And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with their colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better. 

 

Okay, Fast Leader legion, it’s time for the Hump day Hoedown. Okay Kory, the Hump day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Kory Angelin, are you ready to hoedown?

 

Kory Angelin:     I am pumped up. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Kory Angelin:     The bandwidth to reach more companies outside the fitness industry. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Kory Angelin:     People don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it, that famous quote I said before. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Kory Angelin:     More empathy goes a long way much farther than it would if you were not open to that when someone says no to a sell. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Kory Angelin:     Asking a great open-ended question in any customer experience so it allows the customer to speak longer. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What would be one book that you’d recommend to our legion, it can be from any genre, and of course we’ll put a link to, sell out on your show notes page as well. 

 

Kory Angelin:     Start with the Why, by Simon Sinek.

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader legion you can find links to that and other bonus information by going to Kory’s show notes page and that could be found at fastleader.net/Kory Angelin. Okay, Kory, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take all the knowledge and skills that you have and take them back with you but you can’t take it, actually you can just use one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Kory Angelin:     Great question. Man, I will tell you, at 25 years old I would have learned more about business and finance than I care to at the time, having to do it all over again, a little bit more knowledge in other industries rather than be pigeonholed into whatever I was doing at the time expanding that knowledge base would have been a lot better for me.

 

Jim Rembach:    Kory it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you? 

 

Kory Angelin:     Sure, koryangelin.com or @koryfit and be part of my Instagram family. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Kory Angelin, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO 

[/expand]

 

Jill Konrath Selling to Big Companies, Snap Selling, More Sales Less Time

138: Jill Konrath: I’m over the hill, I lost my mojo

Jill Konrath Show Notes Page

Jill Konrath was working with two big companies, consulting on product launches. Within three months, both of the companies eliminated outside consultants, due to pressure from Wall Street. Jill lost 95% of her work and after six months waiting for the work to return, Jill needed to get new clients. But Jill was unable to book any appointments. She lost faith in herself, lost her value proposition, and then she finally realized something that helped her to get over the hump.

Jill was born and raised in Minneapolis, Minnesota. She was the oldest of four kids, and she was always expected to set a good example.

In her spare time, she loved fishing, reading, searching for hard-to-find items (agates, 4-leaf clovers) and solving puzzles of all types. During high school and college, she worked as a waitress—and loved getting tips.

Her first job was as a teacher, but Jill quickly got bored. After four years, she came up with an idea to start her own company. But before launching her new endeavor, she realized she needed to learn how to sell first.

Hired by Xerox as a salesperson, Jill quickly excelled. She loved the constant challenges as well as being able to impact her income through working hard and working smart. After a few years, she moved into technology sales … then finally started her own business as a consultant specializing in new product launches, ensuing she was always solving a new puzzle—and getting paid well to do it!

Today Jill is an international keynote speaker with nearly 1.3 million LinkedIn followers. She’s also the bestselling author of four books. Each tackles an emerging sales challenge, requiring her to search for new ideas and test new approaches.

Selling to Big Companies deals with setting up meetings with corporate decision makers who never answer phones or respond to emails. SNAP Selling tackles strategies for getting crazy-busy buyers to move off the status quo. Agile Selling focuses on helping reps in new sales positions get up to speed as soon as possible.

Her most recent, More Sales Less Time, is filled with ideas to help overwhelmed sellers bring in more revenue while working fewer hours.

According to Jill, her books are her gift to the world, her two kids are her most precious legacy and her cat keeps her company on a daily basis. She still lives in the Minneapolis area and is always on the lookout for new, challenging puzzles to solve.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @jillkonrath to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“People are exhausted and not bringing their best selves to life or work.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet

“I’m struggling with the same issues I tackle.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“You have to put a protection around yourself so you can be the person you want to be.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“If we’re getting caught up in distraction, we’re just a fragment of what we could be.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“All of us are trying to influence people to accept our ideas.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“In reality, the best sales people make you feel good about yourself.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“People don’t want to learn new ways and go through the pain of being incompetent again.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“Every leader is constantly selling change.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“We’re all selling change.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“Until you get your distractions under control it’s really hard to do anything else.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“Our life right now is built on distraction.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“Everybody is taking much longer to do what needs to get done.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“When you live in an online world, you have to learn how to live in it.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“We’re living in an environment that just pulls us out.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“It’s just a crime that our brains are being lost in this.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“We are a species of animal that is designed for distraction.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“There’s more of you than you know.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

“Fighting habits is hard, it’s about learning a new way.” -Jill Konrath Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Jill Konrath was working with two big companies, consulting on product launches. Within three months, both of the companies eliminated outside consultants, due to pressure from Wall Street. Jill lost 95% of her work and after six months waiting for the work to return, Jill needed to get new clients. But Jill was unable to book any appointments. She lost faith in herself, lost her value proposition, and then she finally realized something that helped her to get over the hump.

Advice for others

Mindset is more important than a piece of knowledge.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

I currently dealing with some personal issues that are holding me where I am.

Best Leadership Advice

You’re going to be awfully surprised that other people don’t work as hard as you do.

Secret to Success

That I turn all problems into challenges.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

My voice.

Recommended Reading

More Sales, Less Time: Surprisingly Simple Strategies for Today’s Crazy-Busy Sellers

The Highest Goal: The Secret That Sustains You in Every Moment

Contacting Jill Konrath

website: https://www.jillkonrath.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillkonrath/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jillkonrath

Resources and Show Mentions

Time Master Manifesto

Increase Employee Engagement and Workplace Culture

Empathy Mapping

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

138: Jill Konrath: I’m over the hill, I lost my mojo

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast. Where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

Need a powerful and entertaining way to ignite your next conference, retreat or team-building session? My keynote don’t include magic but they do have the power to help your attendees take a leap forward by putting emotional intelligence into their employee-engagement, customer-engagement and customer-centric leadership practices. So bring the infotainment creativity the Fast Leader show to your next event and I’ll your attendees get over the hump now. Go to beyondmorale.com/speaking to learn more. 

Okay, Fast Leader legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who I’ve admired her work and her for a long time. Jill Konrath was born and raised in Minneapolis, Minnesota. She was the oldest of four kids and she was always expected to set a good example to her younger siblings, Tiny, Text and Seth. In her spare time she love fishing, reading, searching for hard-to-find items like agates and four-leaf clovers and solving puzzles all the time. During high school and college she worked as a waitress and loved getting tips. Her first job was as a teacher but Jill quickly got bored. After four years she came up with an idea to start her own company but before launching her new endeavor she realized she needed to learn how to sell first. Hired by Xerox as a salesperson, Jill quickly excelled. She loved the constant challenges as well as being able to impact her income through working hard and working smart.

After a few years, she moved into technology sales then finally started her own business as a consultant specializing in new product launches ensuing she was always solving a new puzzle and getting paid well to do it. Today Jill is an international keynote speaker with nearly 1/3 million LinkedIn followers. She’s also the best-selling author of four books each tackles an emerging sales challenge requiring her to search for new ideas and test new approaches. Selling to big companies deals with setting up meetings with corporate decision-makers who never answer phones or respond to emails. Snap selling tackle strategies for getting crazy busy buyers to move off the status quo, agile selling focuses on helping reps and new sales positions get up to speed as soon as possible and her most recent more sales less time is filled with ideas to help overwhelm sellers bring in more revenue while working fewer hours.

According to Jill her books are her gift to the world. Her two kids are her most precious legacy and her cat keeps her company on a daily basis. Jill still lives in the Minneapolis area and is always on the lookout for new challenging puzzles to solve. Jill Konrath, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Jill Konrath:   I’m ready to help.

Jim Rembach:    I appreciate you being here. I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we get to know you even better.

Jill Konrath:   My current passion is to remove the distraction that we’re all facing that’s pulling us away from our time and taking all of our time but also I think it’s really impacting our quality of thinking and our ability to be the best person that we can be. I found it was an issue that I was facing I tackled it and study for a couple years and I think it’s huge because so many people are just working their tails off and they’re getting up in the morning and jumping into email and they’re going straight through the day and at o’clock they shut down and the last thing they do is check email and they’re exhausted and they’re not bringing them best offs to their lives or to their work.

Jim Rembach:   You know I think that’s a great point. I have the opportunity to follow you and I’ve been in your list and get your content and information and pull down a lot of checklists and it’s really added a lot of value to my thinking but I see a lot of your work is really kind of set in—the practical you kind of point out the obvious that causes us to go—I knew that but I’m not doing that.

Jill Konrath:   Yes, yes. I really feel in some ways sort of like a boring person because it’s not like I’m coming up with this new theories or anything but I observe problems and I go—well, what are we going to do about this this is really an issue. And then I just set myself on—of course, in studying what it takes and experimentation and it really isn’t rocket science it’s really common sense when you come right down to it. But you’re right I’m struggling with the same issues that I tackle so its uncommon sense I guess I would say. 

Jim Rembach:   I think that’s a great point because a lot of times we talk about common sense not being common and definitely a lot of the things that are covered in more sales less time it’s like—okay, I just need to do a better job and this is what the book is all about creating some type of structure and plan in order to be able to get moving forward. And one of the things that I really loved that you put together that’s in the book, and we’re going to put a link in the show notes page for people to get this is Your Time Master Manifesto. And I really wanted to take—and it hit me so much and for me it’s one of those things if I didn’t tattoo it on my body I’m definitely going to have it on my desk because it’s going to help me with conditioning and that is I create my life rather than let life just happen to me. I value my time it’s all I have when it’s gone I’ll never get it back. I wake up each day refreshed ready to start my work joyfully. I begin my day with what matters most. I’m clear on my priorities. I think about what I’m doing and why (5:29 inaudible) business is craziness I work in block of time this gets me in the flow. I embrace tools that help me get more done or protect me from myself. I schedule my entire day in my calendar and adjust as needed. I create fun challenges to get me started and achieve my goals. I constantly experiment finding better ways to do every aspect of my job. I treat myself to fun energy renewing breaks throughout the day. I prevent distractions by sitting quietly till they pass. I don’t do everything I delegate or say no. I reflect at the end of each day and I accept my responsibility for creating the life I want it’s up to me. I love that.

Jill Konrath:   Thank you, thank you. It wasn’t what I started out with when I wrote the book that was not how it was living my life. I was living at the mercy of everything else that was happening in my life and doing my best to serve every master and every master it would be anybody who sent me an email sometimes. 

Jim Rembach:   I think that’s too easy especially for someone who is a caring type of individual who wants to help and even like you said about your books that your gift back to the world. That type of personality and focus it’s just so difficult to say no. 

Jill Konrath:   It’s hard to say no and it’s about providing good service and wanting to make people feel like they’re working with somebody who takes care of them and who interested in them. It’s just about being a good servant leader and doing things right. You have to learn how to put a protection around yourself so you can really be the kind of person that you want to be otherwise you get so lost in the mess that you’re not bringing your best self to table and that really bothers me and not bring my best self to the table. It should bother everybody because we’re all a gift to the world. I said in my books– we are all a gift to the world and we all have certain things that we do that contribute to the workplace, that contribute to families, that contribute to our greater community. And if we’re getting caught up and distractions that are pulling us here and there we’re not bringing any of our best self to anything and we’re just a fragment of what we could be.

I think you probably just explained why we have so much issue with depression and opioid addiction and things like that is because people are not getting that sense of fulfillment because of all of those things.

Jill Konrath:   The craziness that we’re experiencing and the push that we’re under in our whole society to do more a and more and more faster-faster-faster is actually exacerbating the problem because it makes us do behaviors that actually don’t help us to accomplish the goals that we’re really trying to accomplish.

I think it’s a great point. There’s so many statistics associated with people who like just give up   vacation time because they’re so busy doing work that they don’t feel like they could step away we’ve had this many years of this whole thinking of lean and what I think I say is that if you you’re always focused on doing more with less in fact you are going to do less because you have so much more to do.

Jill Konrath:   Yeah, that’s exactly true that is exactly true, that is exactly true. 

You just get locked up.

Jill Konrath:   Yes.

One of the things we talked about off mic and you had asked about some of the people who are Fast Leader show listeners and I had mentioned about a lot of them are actually folks working with organizations. When you start thinking about it, really everybody is in sales we are trying to get people’s attention, we still have our job that we’re supposed to be doing and a task and responsibilities associated with that but in order to move forward and really make impact we’ve got to get other people to buy in or buy what were actually selling. And so I think the whole sales concept is really a universal concept. Do you actually see that being different or do you ascribe to that?

Jill Konrath:   No I totally agree with that. All of us are trying to influence other people to accept our ideas or to try something new that would change from the status quo. Most people would not like to call it sales because they are ascribe the selling term to a manipulative, greedy, slimy, used car salesperson who wants to get them out of a lot with the biggest Commission check they can make  and they don’t care about you. That’s what people see they don’t understand that in reality the best salespeople make you feel really good about yourself and they really help you accomplish what you’re trying to accomplish and they oftentimes bring new ideas insights and information that you would never thought of that make you go, oh my god, this is really what we should be doing that would really help. And that’s what everybody who’s like a leader thinks if that’s what they’re doing so they don’t realize that is what’s selling us about it it’s curves were  doing it well, if you’re doing it. But everybody has to buy into their ideas and I think that’s the term that’s used in a corporate environment.

Jim Rembach:   Well, definitely. I mean if you want to call it persuasion or influenced in order to make you feel better internally go right ahead.

Jill Konrath:   Yeah. 

Jim Rembach:   But it’s still something that you try to get people to actually buy and accept and give up something in exchange for which is either their time or the resources it’s maybe not a monetary sale but it’s still in essence some type of give-and-take. 

Jill Konrath:   Right. If a company’s implementing a new strategy and trying to go a certain way I mean you immediately get resistance to because now people don’t want to have to learn new ways. They don’t want to have to go through the pain of being incompetent again as they have to figure things out they like the way it is. Every leader is constantly selling change and that’s really what it boils down to we’re all we’re all selling change. Whether you’re asking people to change their behaviors to get more done or to change their behaviors by doing things the new way or to bring in a new colleague and make that person feel at home I mean there’s so many different things but it’s all about selling why change is necessary and what value it will bring to the person who decides to change. 

Jim Rembach:      Certainly. And one of the things that I also liked about the book is that you have tons of resources, apps, other articles and information, the depth of research that you go through in order to be able to put together your books is quite impressive and goes back to that whole piece of—yes, it may be practical but there’s so much information that you pull in from different sources in order to validate it. But when you when you start thinking about the tips and the  tactics and all of those helpful resources and you’ve had a lot of links within your book in order to be able to people to get those, what’s the thing that people are actually downloading and wanting more of? 

Jill Konrath:   Wow, I don’t know. I think anything related to preventing distraction is what people are commenting most about. And I really believe that that is the starting point and until you can get your distractions under control it’s really hard to do anything else that will help you achieve more. Our life right now is built on distraction and we’re so attuned to checking our email like every time a message comes in and we’ve got all these alerts that constantly are pulling us here whether it’s announcing who’s ahead in the latest golf game or breaking news out of Washington and what’s happening right now. We’ve got all these alerts, buzzes pop-ups that are constantly at us in and until we can get a hold of that everybody is feeling fragmented in their thinking and everybody is taking much longer to do what needs to get done. Most people are so unaware of how this distraction is literally the root cause of the crazy business that they’re feeling. People are looking at things like Sane Box a lot of people have tried sane box since I mentioned it and unrolled at me couple apps, freedom is an app that people use. Freedom is an apps, only just explain some of these apps, sane box and unroll.me help you get control of your inbox and help you like sane box will take my emails and separate them. I get to make the decision as they come. 

Is this something I want in my main inbox or is just something I can read later like it’s from a vendor I do business with? Or it’s a newsletter that I find interesting but don’t have to read right now and it’s not essential and shouldn’t be interrupting my day versus here are the things that are crucial and I should be interrupting my day because this is what I’m following up on, so something like that is really important to people. Freedom is a protection app and it literally stops you from going online. It’s like you put a block on your computer or any of your devices, your cell phone, and you say, I want to prevent myself from going online even for 60 minutes or 90 minutes or two and a half hours. When I go online I get sucked into everything else and it interrupts my thinking and I can’t do the critical thinking that I need or the strategic thinking that I need to really come up with a good solution to my challenge. People are really interested in how to protect their time, and I strongly suggest using technology, they are there to help us too not just distract us. When you live in an online world the first thing you have to do is learn how to live in it because nobody taught us how. The iPhone is only been out for ten years and all this big problems are really things that have emerged in the last ten years since we’ve had the ability to pick up our cell phone at any time and any moment. 

Jim Rembach:   It’s interesting that you say that. One of the jokes that I always bring up about people thinking crazy things about society is that you know what? None of this stuff really happened until cable TV. 

Jill Konrath:   Interesting, yeah. 

Jim Rembach:   We never worried about the person who was doing something to some kids across the country or this one time incident that is such an outlier it hasn’t really happened in 100 years and now we start worrying about that all the time. They slice in the media and everybody wants to be covered we didn’t have that we were just—I guess in ignorant bliss prior to—

Jill Konrath:   That’s really true. It’s so funny like, I go online to—what’s the weather’s going to be like? I’m traveling someplace, what’s the weather like? Or even just what’s it like here in Minneapolis? And I go on the weather app and boom I’m sucked into the sinkhole in Florida or sucked into—you’ll never believe what this fisherman did. I watched a big shark circling a boat the other day and it’s like, Jiminy Crickets, what am I doing here I just wanted to see what the temperature was going to be like today? But we’re just living in an environment that just pulls us out and once we start getting pulled out we just go down a rabbit hole and it’s one thing after another and a half an hour can disappear. To me what’s even worse about that half hour disappearing is that the time it takes us to get back to where we were and to get our thinking back in it. And then they say it’s take 10 to 20 times the length of the interruption to get your head back to where it was and so you really think of the costliness of this distractions. It’s easily an hour to a day that evaporates and then we have to work later and longer to do it and the quality of our thinking is less. We are less strategic, we come up with fewer ideas we come up with worse solutions to our problems. To me that’s just a crime that that our brains are being lost in this and the best ideas that we can come up with are just gone too. 

Jim Rembach:   We just had some bad habits and your tool helps hopefully correct some of those bad habits and sometimes we have to put on blockers on ourselves because just can’t do it. Just like what you say we get sucked in and we can’t control. And you now what? There’s people who are experts that’s causing it to happen and we’re just allowing it. 

Jill Konrath:   Yes, yes. There’s people—that is their job to distract us and we are a species of animal who is designed for distraction because we actually have a part of our brain that’s supposed to look around and go—is there anything out there I should be aware of that’s new that might come and jump at me and eat me up? Literally, when we go online our amygdala this part of the brain jumps to the forefront of our brain and says, hey guys I got it. And it literally takes over from our executive function then what part of our brain that we think it should be running the show but the amygdala takes over, Oh God, new stuff, new stuff. And then the brain releases dopamine which is a feel-good hormone and goes, good job, good job. We got more of it and so we get hooked in this dopamine addiction, because it’s highly addictive, and it feels so good. And then we recreate the interruptions even when we get offline we interrupt ourselves because we are so used to being interrupted. What we have to do is to learn to live with the technology in a way that we haven’t before because we’ve never had to deal with this.

Jim Rembach:   Absolutely. We’re talking about here—being able to focus, change our own behaviors, get set in the right direction it is just associating connecting with a whole lot of emotion and one of the things that we look at on the show in order to get some better direction are quotes. Is there a quote or two that you can share?

Jill Konrath:   I can give you a call I can give you a game and I do talk about it in the book. One of the things I discovered was that me Jill Konrath is highly addictive to these things and I’m interested and curious and so for me to work in a distraction-free environment—I love distractions. I literally found that I was policing myself all the time to avoid that and I didn’t have the willpower to keep up the policing all the time it was just like constant effort to be really good with my time because it required so much change. One of the things I found and this was really ridiculous but I did decide to try to create a game to keep me plain and I created an avatar in the game that I was going to play with. The avatar I called the time master. And so I walk into my office and I was trying to be really good, but the game I set up was just a disaster it wasn’t fun and required tracking and it was worse than it started with. But when I came in as the avatar, the time master, I literally started behaving differently.

And to me that was a fascinating thing that’s simply by acting as if I was this wise time master, literally I’d stand up straighter as I walked into my office, I have a my time master poster that I created, I’d stand up straighter when I walked in I’d stare at that little sign and I got the time master and I’d sit down and I’d start behaving differently. So, it wasn’t a slogan it was literally changing my persona and saying I’m not going to be Jill today because Jill gets hooked on all these things but the time master knows how to run the day effectively. And that’s really true the time master did. So, what happened over time is that the time master slowly started seeping into my bones and the more I acted like the time master the more I realized why I really do have control and I really can take this thing and I really can set up my data to be different and the time master became who I went to run my days and then I became the time master.

Jim Rembach:   I think that’s a great story and thanks for sharing because we oftentimes don’t put enough credibility in the power of what we can do when we just change our mindset.

Jill Konrath:   Yes it was. It was fascinating to me that simply by saying I’m not going to act as Jill because poor Jill she’s incapable of managing her day effectively all she does is want to go read email and then get sucked in but by simply being the time master it changed the whole dynamic that I felt as I was operating during the day it released the pressure it allowed me to just be who I am and it was really effective. Most people don’t realize that there’s more of you than you know. You get hooked into a simple routine but you need to do is find some way to break the routine and do it easily and not constantly be fighting the habits that you’ve assumed. A fighting habits is so hard I mean anybody who’s ever dieted, which I have, knows that fighting habits is hard. It’s about learning a new way of eating and being a food master and a healthy eater and seeing yourself as that and that changes everything. We are capable of more than we know we’re really capable more than we know how. 

Jim Rembach:   Definitely. A lot of times we have to go through lessons in life in order to be able to figure those out and those are humps that we have to get over. Talking about being a young girl and having those puzzles and then wanting to help others and becoming a teacher and realizing that it wasn’t for you. There’s a lot of humps that we have to get over in order to be where we are today, is there a time where you’ve had to get over the hump that you could share? 

Jill Konrath:   I’ll just share the one that kind of sent me in the trajectory I am in today, okay. While back I was a consultant in the Minneapolis area. I was working with a number of the large corporations in town and the product launches which we talked about earlier and I had actually gotten myself  down to I was working with only two big companies that were within a 20 minute drive of my house. It was really nice and I was working in multiple business units of those corporations. What happened within a three-month period both of those companies came under pressure from Wall Street at the exact same time and eliminated all outside consultants and I had five months of work booked out ahead of me with these companies it’s 95% of my work and gone it  was literally gone overnight. 

And so I had to go back and into reinvention, actually they said it was going to come back, it took me a while and I thought it would be coming back. Then after about six months I went, oh my god, I can’t wait for them to come back I need revenue coming in the door right now what am I going to do? And then I didn’t know and I went through a crisis of faith in terms of who am I and what do I bring to the world and I was lost and I had no value proposition then I finally got myself focused again and went to market and nobody answered their phone and all calls rolled the voicemail I went, what the heck just happened I used to be good at studying up medians and now—. And then I thought, oh my god, I’m over the hill  I’ve lost my mojo and then I finally started talking to people about it and I realized that I wasn’t the only human being going through this experience. The experience was universal and virtually every entrepreneur, small business owner I was talking to was having the same problem. My sales friends were having the same issue and then suddenly I discovered that it was like this universal problem that everybody was facing. And once I was able to detach myself from it and realize it wasn’t just me then it became a problem I wanted to solve. 

And so I spent literally a full year researching what did it take to get corporate decision-makers to answer their phones return my calls respond to my emails. And then after I figure out how to do it for myself, again I was a teacher, and so now I want to say, well I don’t want everybody have to go through this horrible learning curve that I just went through how can I create a methodology that everybody can use. So, then I created my methodology then I had to extract myself and create a broader methodology that would appeal to and work with a variety of businesses. Once I did that then I wrote the book selling to big companies and then I started doing training and speaking on the topic and that was just the first step in moving from being a nice quiet consultant to being a very visible person in the greater sales field.

Jim Rembach:   You did it you’ve done a very good job with that. I know you have a lot of things going on you’ve have this new book of course and I’m sure because of someone who likes to continue to teach and learn and solve puzzles there’s more to come along. But when you start looking at all of these things, what’s one of your goals?

Jill Konrath:   Right now? My goal…my goal right now is very specific it’s to help other people with this issue of time. it’s like—to me a book is a baby I birthed this baby and I need to raise this child that I have and raising this child means letting people know and helping them understand that they can change their life that it doesn’t have to be this crazy high-stress life that we’re doing. So, for the next couple years my focused goal is to work with people and help people understand they can take back control and they can do more while working less, so, that’s a very specific goal right now. Long term, I don’t know where I’m going I kind of always wait for the next challenge to capture me and I don’t know what it is right now I just know that it won’t come until I raise my child a little bit. I know that sounds weird but that’s what it’s always happens it’s like I got take this out and share it with the world because this is stuff that I spent a lot of time learning researching figuring out and it changes smile it’s changed my life it’s changed a lot of people’s lif and so I need to share it. 

Jim Rembach:   And the Fast Leader legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick work from our sponsor: 

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Alright, here we go Fast Leader listeners it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Jill, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to move us onward and upward faster. Keith Peirce, are you ready to hoedown? 

Jill Konrath:   Oh, sure. 

Jim Rembach:   What think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Jill Konrath:   Wow! The truth. The truth my husband passed away recently and both my elderly parents are sick and so I’m kind of dealing with some personal issues that are holding me where I am and keeping me from moving in new directions. 

Jim Rembach:   My deepest sympathies on the loss of your husband. 

Jill Konrath:   Thank you. 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? 

Jill Konrath:   The best leadership advice…I remember the first leadership advice I ever received was when my—I was being promoted into a sales management role and my boss said to me, Jill you’re going to be awfully surprised that other people don’t work as hard as you do. It was like, whoa I had no idea I thought everybody was as motivated and driven as I was and I discovered quickly that it wasn’t the case. Then I had to learn how to work with people to motivate them and to get them to be challenged and not get down and to step into new areas into trying new things. 

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success? 

Jill Konrath:   Oh, one of my secrets…that I turn all problems into challenges. 

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Jill Konrath:   My voice. 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book, and it would be from any genre that you recommend to our listeners, and of course, lists or now of course we’re going to put a link to “More Sales Less Time” on your show notes page. 

Jill Konrath:   The book that that impacted me a lot was a book called Your Highest Goal. It says that whenever you do anything identify what your highest goal is before you do it because it will change how you tackle the challenge and it had a profound impact on what I’m doing for the last 12 years. 

Jim Rembach:  Okay, Fast Leader Legion you could find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Jill Konrath. Okay, Jill, this is my last hump day hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Jill Konrath:   I think what I take back is my mindset more than anything. The mindset of—and I just kind of  mentioned it earlier that rather than letting myself get down about anything that everything is a challenge and to not be afraid if I haven’t figured it out it’s just temporary, I just haven’t figured it out yet, and I think the mindset is more important than a piece of knowledge.

Jim Rembach:  Jill, it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you?

Jill Konrath:   They can connect with me via my website at JillKonrath.com where they can follow me on LinkedIn which is probably the easiest way and please tell people that my last name starts with a K. 

Jim Rembach:  Jill, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the fast leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

END OF AUDIO

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090: Bob Burg: I resisted change and it set me back

Bob Burg Show Notes

Bob Burg is not a technical person by nature. He even built a business that did not depend on technology. Despite several people warning him that he needed to learn technology, he got complacent, even cocky and his business suffered for several years. Listen to Bob tell how he was left behind and how he got over the hump.

Bob was born and raised in Massachusetts but as he says he got to sunny South Florida as fast as he could.

His dream was to be third baseman for the Boston Red Sox except for one thing any semblance for talent.

So Bob became a sportscaster in radio then in television then he got into sales and never looked back and then he moved to the stage.

Bob Burg, coauthor of the international bestseller, The Go-Giver and a much sought-after speaker at sales and leadership conferences, is committed to inspiring the entrepreneurial spirit in us all. He shows that companies both large and small that conduct their businesses “The Go-Giver Way” are not only of much greater value to their customers; they are also significantly more functional, and profitable, as well.

Bob is an advocate, supporter and defender of the Free Enterprise system, believing that the amount of money one makes is directly proportional to how many people they serve.

Bob says his life is pretty much his business and vice versa. He’s not married and has no kids. But he is a voracious reader, baseball fan, an unapologetic animal fanatic, and serves on the Board of Trustees of Furry Friends Adoption & Clinic in his town of Jupiter, Florida.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @BobBurg and get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“People do things for their reasons, not our reasons.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet

“People are going to do things because they believe it’s going to bring them closer to happiness.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Nobody’s going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“People are not going to buy from you because you need the money.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“People are not going to buy from you because you’re a nice person.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“People buy from you only because they believe they are better off by doing so.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Great leadership is never about the leader.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Great influence is never about the influencer.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Great salesmanship is never about the sales person.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Money is simply an echo of value.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Money is the thunder to value’s lightening.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Sometimes our truth and the truth are the same, but often there’re not.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“As human beings, we all see the world from our own unique individual viewpoints.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Our belief system is our unconscious operating system.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Our basic belief system is set in stone by the time we are toddlers.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“As human beings, we think that everyone sees the world the same way.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“We tend to believe that what we value is what everyone else values.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Sales is discovering what the other person wants, needs, or desires and helping them to get it.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Everyone ultimately seeks happiness.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“First ask, will it serve.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“People will do business with and refer business to people they know, like and trust.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Leadership is never about the technology, it’s always about the people.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

“Get around leaders that are great leaders and learn from them.” -Bob Burg Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Bob Burg is not a technical person by nature. He even built a business that did not depend on technology. Despite several people warning him that he needed to learn technology, he got complacent, even cocky and his business suffered for several years. Listen to Bob tell how he was left behind and how he got over the hump.

Advice for others

Sales is always about the other person and their beliefs and values.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Myself. I would be what’s holding me back.

Best Leadership Advice Received

Get around leaders who are great leaders and learn from them and keep reading about it.

Secret to Success

A sense of empathy for others. I can easily relate to wat others are feeling and communicate that.

Best tools that helps in business or Life

Having such a genuine caring for those that I lead.

Recommended Reading

The Secret of Selling Anything

Contacting Bob

Website: www.thegogiver.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobburg

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BobBurg

Resources

Sample chapter of The Go-Giver

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

090: Bob Burg: I resisted change and it set me back

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience, break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

Need a powerful and entertaining way to ignite your next conference, retreat or team-building session? My keynotes don’t include magic but they do have the power to help your attendees take a leap forward by putting emotional intelligence into their employee- engagement, customer-engagement and customer-centric leadership practices. So bring the infotainment creativity the Fast Leader show to your next event and I’ll help your attendees get over the hump now. Go to beyondmorale.com/speaking to learn more. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader Legion during episode 80, which was an episode packed with a lot of nuggets and of wisdom with Paul Maskell, Paul recommended our guest today’s book the Go Giver as one of his recommended books to read. Bob Burg was born and raised in Massachusetts but as soon as he could he got down to sunny South Florida. His dream was to be third baseman for the Boston Red Sox except for one thing, any semblance of talent. So, Bob became a sportscaster in radio then in television and then he got into sales and never look back and then he also moved on to the stage. Bob Burg co-author of the international bestseller the Go Giver and a much sought after speaker at sales and leadership conferences.

 

He is committed to inspiring the entrepreneurial spirit in all of us. He shows that companies both large and small that conduct their business the ‘go giver’ way are not only of much greater value to their customers they are also significantly more functional and profitable as well. Bob is an advocate and supporter and defender of the free enterprise system believing that the amount of money one makes is directly proportional to how many people they serve. Bob says his life is pretty much his business and vice versa. He is not married and has no kids but he is a voracious reader, baseball fan, and unapologetic animal fanatic and serves on the Board of Trustees of Furry Friends Adoption and Clinic and his hometown of Jupiter, Florida. Bob Burg, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Bob Burg:     Sure I am Jim it’s great to be with you. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Thanks Bob I appreciate that. I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Bob Burg:     Current passion is that we put together a Go Get Sales Academy where instead  me going out now and speaking to your major companies groups, organizations as I always have, I still continue too but not as much, at 58 I want to get off the road more than being on it. But there are groups of 12 people that we go very deep into their business and help them to become a lot more confident, communicated their value and just have a lot more—business it’s a lot more fun a lot less stressful and a lot more profitable. So that’s really our passion right now in the part of the business we’re really geared to. 

 

Jim Rembach:    There’s a couple of things that stood out as I was reviewing the book. You had mentioned something about the ‘go giver’ being congruent and even honors human nature, what does that mean?

 

Bob Burg:     Oh! It’s such a great question. One of my favorite book and I’m sure you’ve read and I’m sure our bookshelves are very similar actually, but one of my favorite of all time of course was Dale Carnegie’s, How to Win Friends and Influence People, just an amazing classic. And one the statements in there of all the many amazing statements he made I thought was the basic premise of the entire book mentor and that’s where he said, ‘ultimately people do things for their reasons not our reasons’ and that is human nature. People are going to do things because they believe that it’s going to bring them closer to happiness than doing something else, okay.  I often say when I speak at a sales conference, nobody’s going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet. They’re not going to buy from you because you need the money. They’re not even going to buy from you because you’re a really nice person who has a great product and you think they should have it. They’re going to buy from you only because they believe that they are better off by doing so than by not doing so.  

 

So in the go giver philosophy which is basically the shift in your focus from getting to giving, and when we say giving in this context Jim we simply mean constantly and consistently providing value to others, we understand that it’s not about us, great leadership is never about the leader great influences never about the influencer and great salesmanship is never about the salesperson, it’s always about the other person focusing on them bringing value to them and that’s why John David Mann my awesome co-author and I often say that, money is simply an echo of value, if the thunder if you will to values lightning which means the focus must be on pleasing the other person understanding again they’re going to do what they feel is in their best interest.

 

Jim Rembach:     Thanks for sharing that. There’s something that stood out to me when you started talking about that even a value component. I think so many times that we potentially inside of us value certain things and then we find it difficult to believe when others don’t value the same thing. 

 

Bob Burg:     You are so right on the mark. It’s all about belief systems. What is a belief? A belief can be defined as a subjective truth. In other words, it’s the truth as we understand the truth to be it doesn’t mean it’s about truth that means it’s a true or it means our truth. Sometimes our truth and that truth are the same but often they’re not and the reason why is because as human beings we all see the world from our own unique individual viewpoints, it’s based on our belief systems which we could also say is our unconscious operating system. Belief system is a combination of upbringing, environments, schooling, news media, television shows, movies, popular culture, cultural mores, everything that comes into our light but as you know our basic belief system is pretty much set in stone by the time were little more than toddlers and everything that comes into our life after that is basically added onto that foundational premise. And as human beings unconsciously viewing the world in a certain way we also think that everyone else sees the world the same way, how could be any different? It’s all we know. This is why you hear people say things like, Oh, everyone loves that, or nobody would like that,  or if you’ve ever heard someone say, maybe you’ve said it I know I have far too often, oh, I would never treat someone like that. Now we wouldn’t it becomes not part of our belief system but that’s not true for others. And so what happens is as a salespeople we tend to believe that or as leaders inspiring the team of others, we tend to believe that what we valued is what everyone else values. It’s like the person who was trying to sell me a copying machine. And he came in and all he was talking about was the price. 

 

Now you know I had I just moved from a big office into my home office, this maybe seven or eight years ago great move I’m so glad I did it, but I remember my office manager use to have to do this thing with the copying machine that she had to fill in this information and send it in to them every month, if you know me you know that this is not something I’m going to do in a million years, so my question to him and he had a sales assistant with him who wasn’t saying anything and I asked, “Well, would I have to fill in that information?” I really don’t want to do that it’s not something—he just kept coming back with price. He wasn’t asking me question about what I wanted, he was telling me about the great price. And of course you know, hey, there were people who buy just on price not many, okay, usually it’s not a price question a value situation but some people are status buyers, some people are—I’m a convenience buyer in other words I’m lazy but he never took the time to ask and I was just about to politely end the interview when finally his assistant couldn’t hold back any longer and she said, “Mr. Burg, if we could put into the agreement that you’ll never have to check the—whatever that’s there, would you buy it?” And I said, “Absolutely, I’ll do it right now.” And they made the sale. What he didn’t realize that his trainee did it wasn’t about him and what he found to be of value it was about me the customer and what I found to be of value. One quick thing, this is why I define sales as simply discovering what the other person wants, needs or desires and helping them to get it. 

 

Jim Rembach:    You know Bob, to me you’re talking about something that is somewhat universal from the perspective of it doesn’t matter if we were referring to needing to make a register ringer or wanting to make a register ring or have a deposit put into your particular account from a sale, this things apply even when we’re starting to talk about working cross functionally within an organization. When we started talking about being part of a group and talking about moving things forward and change initiatives and all of those things, it applies universally.

 

Bob Burg:     Right. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Everybody wants to do this. 

 

Bob Burg:     Alright, alright. Well, here’s a thing, one of my old heroes, the late Harry Brown use to say, Everyone seeks happiness, and then he said now, aside from that one thing you cannot use the word to everyone or anyone or no one, only that other than that one thing everyone’s different but everyone ultimately seeks happiness. And that’s why the go giver methodology if you will, is congruent with human nature. Because it’s honoring the fact that that person is going to make decisions based on their own values, which is how it should be.

 

Jim Rembach:    Now you also mentioned something about a good or a question being a bad first question. Now I know that we do that a lot, just meaning as people, we often just jump to a question that at oftentimes maybe, and even if they ask or should be fifth or sixth down the line, what is good first question to you?

 

Bob Burg:     Well in the story, I think you’re referring to when Joe the protegé was talking about making a killing or something making a lot of money and that’s the number one thing to ask, will it make money? And Pindar the main mentor said, “Well, ask him if something will make money isn’t a bad question it’s a great question it’s just a bad first question. First ask, will it serve? The statement asked first will it serve is meant twofold, one is it something that’s a good thing. Alright, is it a good thing towards the advancement of light? Is it something that will help people, that’s not always a good first question? The second thing is, is there a market for it? Is it something people will want? You can have greatest invention in the world but if no one wants it then you’re going to have an expensive hobby you’re not going to have a business. 

 

And what happens is when someone says, ‘but I need to make money’ ‘Oh, yeah, of course part of business is making money, a lot of money, that’s wonderful. You provide a service, you provide value you make a lot of money. But asking if it will make money as a first question is sort of like driving down a highway at high speed while looking in the in the rearview mirror, it’s the wrong question to ask first because it doesn’t serve if it doesn’t have value to the marketplace that people understand and embrace you’re not going to make money. 

 

Jim Rembach:    That’s for true. Talking about wrong direction and getting on the right direction a lot of times we use quotes on the show in order to help us find that right point to be headed on to and path to follow. Is there a quote or two that stands out for you that helps you on the right path? 

 

Bob Burg:     Well, there’s a quote I’ve been saying since I first started in business and it’s been I guess the underlying premise of everything that I’ve taught I guess as a speaker and an author and that is: All things being equal, people will do business with, and refer business to, those people they know, like and trust. And I think that when we can keep that quote in mind whenever we’re about to embark in a new relationship, whether business or personal what have you, we’re going to stay on the right track because it we’ve got to know it’s about the people. You look at technology and you look at new leaders coming into the fold and they’ve got this wonderful technology at hand but what they’ve got to understand is that even with the best technology in the world leadership is never about the technology it’s always about the people, the technology is simply a tool. 

 

Geoff Colvin wrote a fantastic book called ‘People are Underrated’ and  what his premise was in this book that is technology continues to advanced, which it will, and will continue to do so many things not only better than humans can do it but the humans can’t even do it’s still going to be the key qualities of a leader is still going to be empathy, gratitude, team building collaboration all those human things is so important and as long as we remember that then we never put the technology first we let the technology be the servant not the master.

 

Jim Rembach:    That’s a good point. Now I know along the lines even when you started talking about moving and finally realizing your dream to be third baseman of the boss in Regs, I suppose it’s going to happen, we have a lot of humps to get over in life, is there a time where you’ve got to get over the hump and it really made you a better person that you can share?

 

Bob Burg:     Numerous times both personally and in business. I learned a very important lesson in the mid-to-late 90’s, this is when the technology revolution is really taking place. We didn’t have social media yet but we were really starting to have a very technology based form of humanity happening and I’m not a technical person, by nature I’m not, and so it’s scares me. I have a very successful business at that time that did not depend on technology other than e-mails I really did not need to use technology at all. And I got complacence and I knew and I was told by people who knew that you’re going to have to learn some of these stuff, you’re going to have to at least be familiar with it be comfortable, and you know what? I got a little cocky and was feeling a little too much like I had things together and it really set me back. It’s interesting in the field of personal development, which you’re in and I’m in and many people listening to this are in as teachers, as students, we’re all students, we have our own form of political correctness, if you will, certain things that are said and just accept it as dogma and one of them is that, ‘I love change even if it’s uncomfortable I still love it because it helps me grow.’ 

 

You know something Jim, I hate change. I like things the way they are. And yet I knew I needed to change and I resisted and I didn’t do it and it really set my business back. And over a couple of years I got really, really left behind and I had to, regroup and rebuild my business. And eventually I did and that was fine and now I’ve got a great team around me and they know technology and now I really enjoy the technology part, not the—yeah, I couldn’t program a thing but the usability of it. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I know for all of us sometimes we get stuck in that habit of things going well and oftentimes it’s the outside that causes us to disrupt ourselves and that’s the part that’s painful I think of change is waiting to that point to occur but it happens, it does. So, you talked about doing the online learning in order to be able to, maybe not, hit the airwaves as much as you have been, and you have—talking about working on the Board of Trustees, and still a baseball fan which—hey, hey, me too—what are some your goals beyond that?

 

Bob Burg:     We are also, aside from our Go-Giver Sales Academy, we’re building a team of certified Go-Giver speakers and coaches. So, we have them in several countries now and it’s a growing team and basically they have buy the rights to be able to teach all the Go-Giver properties. I always say with quotation marks around it, my intellectual property, because it’s very hard for me tell them that I would have intellectual property, if you knew we’re going to school you know why. So, building that is just fun, I’m fond of work, I don’t I don’t have a lot of hobbies. I do love baseball and a couple times a year I’ll get down to Miami to catch a Miami Marlins game and I watch them on TV when I can but you know, I’m a voracious reader I absolutely, absolutely love reading. I love learning it just fascinates me but really my life is my work I do love it and that tends to be what consumes me in a very good way. 

 

Jim Rembach:     And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. 

 

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotions. So move onward and upward faster by getting significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey and personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you learn to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improve customer loyalty and reduce your cost to opera. Get over your emotional hump now by going to empathymapping.com to learn more.

 

Jim Rembach:     Alright here we go Fast Leader Legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Bob, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster.  Bob Burg are you ready to hoedown?

 

Bob Burg:     I am ready, I will do my best. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Alright. So what do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Bob Burg:     Oh! You would have to ask me something I can’t answer that fast. Myself, I would be what’s holding me back. 

 

Jim Rembach:     What is best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Bob Burg:     Oh! Get around leaders who are great leaders and learn from them and keep them keep reading about it.

 

Jim Rembach:     What is one of your best secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Bob Burg:     I don’t know if it’s a secret as something that I feel I have a lot of and that is a sense of empathy for others. I can I can very easily relate to what others feel and communicate that. 

 

Jim Rembach:     What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Bob Burg:     One of my best tools…? Is that a physical tool or like online or just a quality?

 

Jim Rembach:     Whatever comes to mind. 

 

Bob Burg:     I would say it’s having just such a genuine caring about those people I lead and I think that comes through.

 

Jim Rembach:     What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners and it could be from any genre? 

 

Bob Burg:     The Secret of Selling Anything by Harry Browne, written in the 60’s as a manuscript, published posthumously it is the best book I’ve ever read on understanding human nature and connecting that with selling. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Okay Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information, which would include a link to Bob’s first chapter of the Go-Giver on the show notes page at fastleader.net/Bog Burg. Okay, Bob, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

 

Bob Burg:     It would be the knowledge that I don’t know anywhere near as much as I think I know and I would take back the quote, I would paraphrase the quote by Mark Twain and say: “What could get me into trouble is not what I don’t know but what I think I know that just ain’t so.”

 

Jim Rembach:     Bob, it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

 

Bob Burg:     Sure Jim, and it was a pleasure to spend time with you, I’m honored to be on your program. The best place to reach me is just the gogiver.com everything is pretty much there right on the site.

 

Jim Rembach:     Bob Burg, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO 

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084: Brian Sullivan: They all had their political agendas

Brian Sullivan Show Notes

Brian Sullivan worked for an organization that would bring together an executive committee to make decisions on business they wanted to pursue. Because of all of their political agendas, the system wasn’t serving the company or customers very well. That’s when Brian pioneered a more customer-centric approach to sales that helped them to win better deals and avoid pursuing the bad deals.

Brian was born in Baltimore, Maryland with two older brothers and an older sister. He grew up playing lacrosse, tending bars, waiting tables and eventually he received his undergraduate degree and his MBA in Marketing from Loyola University Maryland.

He began his professional career with Xerox Corp., where he learned a great deal about needs-based selling and client focus in an energized, team selling environment. After moving on from Xerox, he began his 30-year career with Cap Gemini in a sales role but soon moved on to leadership and management positions serving clients and growing business with this Paris-based global consulting firm.

While at Cap Gemini, Brian became familiar with the Sandler Selling System and joined Sandler in 2012 to develop Sandler Enterprise Selling, the subject of the book he co-authored with CEO, Dave Mattson, Sandler Enterprise Selling – Winning, Growing and Retaining Major Accounts. Brian is currently the Vice-President of Sandler Enterprise Selling and responsible for the program’s operation worldwide.

Brian is a lifelong runner that lives in Phoenix, Maryland with his wife Cyndi. They are the parents of three daughters and the grandparents of Quinn and Max.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to Brian Sullivan and get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet 

“Selling is really about having a clear understanding of the needs of the people you deal with.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet

“Clearly understand the needs of people you’re with so you know how to help them.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Understand the needs of the people on your team so you can marshal them effectively.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“A decision to move forward or to stop moving forward; both are gifts.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Make early exists or early acceleration.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“You don’t have unlimited resources to help you win a deal.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Understanding the level of risk you’re facing will give you the gift of exiting the process.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“It’s really about having a solid process to help you make decisions.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Go after business based on what’s best for the client.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Don’t confuse sales and delivery.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Bring the delivery folks into the decision early on.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Do what you’ll say you’ll do.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Have a mindset of responsiveness for the people that you serve.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“We all better be making mistakes.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“You win or you learn.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

“Be flexible and willing to stray from the plan.” -Brian Sullivan Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Brian Sullivan worked for an organization that would bring together an executive committee to make decisions on business they wanted to pursue. Because of all of their political agendas, the system wasn’t serving the company or customers very well. That’s when Brian pioneered a more customer-centric approach to sales that helped them to win better deals and avoid pursuing the bad deals.

Advice for others

Make early exists or early acceleration using a system to help guide you.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

The challenge of keeping pace with technology and social media.

Best Leadership Advice Received

Do what you’ll say you’ll do.

Secret to Success

It’s having a service mentality and a mindset of responsiveness for the people that I serve.

Best tools that helps in business or Life

I have two of them; there’re my ears.

Recommended Reading

Sandler Enterprise Selling:  Winning, Growing, and Retaining Major Accounts

Black Box Thinking: Why Most People Never Learn from Their Mistakes–But Some Do

Contacting Brian

email: brian.sullivan [at] sandler.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-sullivan-8a33593

Resources

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

084: Brian Sullivan: They all had their political agendas

 Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

Need a powerful and entertaining way to ignite your next conference, retreat or team-building session? My keynotes don’t include magic but they do have the power to help your attendees take a leap forward by putting emotional intelligence into their employee- engagement, customer-engagement and customer-centric leadership practices. So bring the infotainment creativity the Fast Leader show to your next event and I’ll help your attendees get over the hump now. Go to beyondmorale.com/speaking to learn more. 

 

Okay Fast Leader legion today we’re going to have a great show because our guest has insights to some of the skills that all of us needs today. Brian Sullivan was born in Baltimore, Maryland with two older brothers and an older sister. He grew up playing across tending bars, waiting tables and eventually he received his undergraduate degree and his MBA in marketing from Loyola University Maryland. He began his professional career with Xerox Corporation where he learned a great deal about needs-based selling and client focus and an energized team selling environment. After moving from Xerox, he began his 30 year career with Cap Gemini in a sales role but soon moved on to leadership and management position serving clients and growing businesses with this Paris-based global consulting firm. While at Cap Gemini, Brian became familiar with the Sandler selling system and join Sandler in 2012 to develop the Sandler Enterprise selling, the subject of the book he co-authored with CEO Dave Mattson, Sandler Enterprise Selling – Winning, Growing and Retaining Major Accounts.

Brian is currently the Vice-President of Sandler Enterprise Selling is responsible for the program’s operation worldwide. Brian is a lifelong runner that lives in Phoenix, Maryland with his wife Cindy and they are the proud parents of three daughters and the grandparents of Quinn and Max. Brian Sullivan are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Brian Sullivan:    Ready to go Jim. Well done couldn’t have said that better myself.

Jim Rembach:    Thanks I appreciate that.  I’ve given listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Brian Sullivan:    Yeah.  My passion is really involved with what I do from the Sandler Enterprise, Selling Standpoint, we rolled out this program eighteen months ago and my role is to support the Sandler network of franchisees all over the world and helping them deliver this program and delight their clients. 

Jim Rembach:    You and I had the opportunity to chat a little bit before and even though you’re talking about the work and what you’re doing it seemed to me like one of your major passion comes down to helping others. You talked about where your career was launched and you’d mentioned something about waiting tables and tending bar and doing all that and how that was just a major passion and really got you into enjoying what you’re doing today, how did you find your way so quickly?

Brian Sullivan:    It’s a great question Jim. I believe strongly in the service mentality about what you do from a life standpoint and also from the selling standpoint. And if you think about it, selling is really about having a clear understanding of the needs of the people that you deal with so that you can earn the right to either help them or understand clearly that you can help them, that’s really what selling is all about. And if you think about it, it’s not a bad way to live your life clearly understanding the needs of people you’re with, so that you know how to help them one way or the other. That’s what I strongly believe in, the service mentality of selling. And as you know so many people have view of selling as being the giving, the pushing, the pitching, that’s really, really not what’s it’s all about. 

Jim Rembach:    One of the reasons I want to have you on the show is—first of all, myself I’ve been exposed to the Sandler Selling system for many years but looking at the six strategies and the 13 tools that are associated with enterprise process it started me down a path of thinking about how really today when you start looking at any initiative of significance is that people have to do a job two ways. First of all if I’m selling a solution for those initiatives, yes, the outside piece and doing all that’s important but also internally the selling has become more challenging with more stakeholders involved and it isn’t something that you could easily just go into have your business case and pitch for it, it requires much more than that.

Brian Sullivan:    Yeah. You mentioned the internal piece—we tend to view enterprise selling as really working internally and externally. From an external standpoint clearly you’re selling into large complex organizations that bring unique challenges such extended sales cycles and really sophisticated competitors and wide, diversified networks but with that comes the challenge and the opportunity if you will of marshaling all of the resources in your organization to address those very challenges. Truthfully that can call on all your sales skills, all of your of abilities, as I’ve mentioned before, to understand the needs of the people on your team so that you can marshal them effectively to serve your clients. 

Jim Rembach:    Men that’s a really keyword that you’ve just laid out a couple of times and that’s that marshaling piece. And if you started looking at folks, put about inside and outside selling, when you start thinking about that marshaling process, what does that mean?

Brian Sullivan:    If you think about it, if you’re ultimate objective in an organization—when business serve clients then you need to make certain that your aligning all of the assets within your organization, people typically figuring the physical assets but the human assets as well, aligning all of those assets can to map to the clients whose business you’re trying to win. I mentioned before that typically in selling into enterprise organizations you’re dealing with the wide diversified network as opposed to simple selling if you will where quite often you can be sitting across the desk from the owner of the company in selling into large complex organizations you’re dealing with a network of buyers that bring functions from legal, from accounting, from finance, it’s your responsibility and again to use that word to marshal the assets of your organization to align to those people in the buyer network, to map if you will docs with docs. If you think about it Jim—have you ever seen a situation where a sales rep is trying to deal with an attorney from a buying organization, they absolutely don’t speak the same language. But if you map it so that an attorney from your organization is dealing with someone from the buying team the conversation becomes so much more streamlined it’s no longer about clauses and semicolons quite often it’s about where you went to school or who you knew in law school. 

Jim Rembach:    That’s a great point, it goes back to that personal connection piece. Now I do know from myself throughout my professional career even when it came to the face-to-face retail sale to some of the complex selling that I have to do now, is that it requires a level of resilience and boldness. You have to be able to keep moving forward to do some of that marshaling and all of that and patience, oh my goodness, of all of those things come into play. And one of the things we look to on the show is quotes because a lot of times they help give us those reminders of those things to help us keep moving forward, is are quote or two that you can share with us?

Brian Sullivan:    Yeah.  That’s a great point. The concept in this enterprise world of moving forward as you say a decision to move forward or decision to stop moving forward both of those are guess. So what I like to talk about is you need to be able to make early exits or early acceleration. When you’re selling into major organizations, when you’re dealing with enterprise accounts the investment that you make is phenomenal. We talked earlier about the physical assets and human assets that you’re using in going after a major account, under any condition the asset are scarce,  you don’t have unlimited resources to help you with the deal. The sooner you can determine whether or not this is a deal you should be pursuing that’s the most important decision you can make. Just as I’ve mentioned earlier an interpersonal communication understanding if you could help someone or you can that’s giving a gift to that person you’re giving a gift to yourself in pursuing enterprise organizations by being able to qualify as quickly as you can whether you should be there or not.

Jim Rembach:    That’s a great point. Gosh, when I started thinking about those words and what you’re explaining is that—how does one get to the point to where they can build either the skills, and I have to say they’re really skills cause it’s a little bit more than just an intuition. How do they build the skills in order to be able to know when to accelerate or get out? Because we always run that risk, of especially in a sales environment, or even in that internal environment where it’s contingent on us making some impact, positive impact of course, and focusing where we can but we also have the fear of pulling out too soon it’s like the whole stock market thing people don’t buy on the high or sell on the high side they wait, “Hey, it’s going to go higher cause I don’t want to lose out on any potential return” and when it drops they don’t sell them either so it’s like they’re stuck with something that they can’t do anything with. How do you know when to go or when to try to grow it?

Brian Sullivan:    Again that’s really significant point. As just often the case, it helps to have a process to follow, Jim. A little example we have Sandler trainer in Austin, Texas and he was meeting with the president of a firm in Austin and the president of the firm told him she said, Every time I make  decision to go after a piece of business it cost me $40,000, win or lose if cost me $40,000.” She said, “If you can help me determine that the deals I go after are the ones I’m most likely to win and also to define in a pursuit I can understand whether I should exit or put my foot on the accelerator I’m really interested. And so what we shared with that client was a   process that we use which evaluates a number of business issues tied to a deal so you can make a determination as to whether your stable or whether you have risk that you need to mitigate. And if you have risk you need to mitigate then you need to take actions to reduce those risks and when you’re finished doing that process with a number different business issues then you’ve got it staring you in the face. If you decide to move forward, when you do have significant risk that’s a calculated decision that you make and you may still make that decision but quite often understanding a level of risk you’re facing will give you the gift of being able to exit the process and then go find an opportunity that you should be applying all the scarce assets to pursue an opportunity that you much more likely to win. So it’s really that having a solid process Jim to help you make those decisions.

Jim Rembach:    Gosh, you know as you were talking, thanks for sharing that, I started even thinking about an internal person whose an expert in their career. Because when I find oftentimes is there’s some people who are stuck in organizations that are highly skilled and nothing can move forward and probably because they don’t have that framework to be able to say, “You know what, it’s time for me to go because I need to be able to give value to some other organization that wants me to do that otherwise I’m going to get frustrated and burned out and then I get burned out in my spot instead going and trying to continue to grow, thanks for sharing that. 

Okay, we chat a little bit about you working with Cap Gemini, with you moving with Sandler and even before that but we know in order for us to grow and get to the point of really solidifying our knowing that we are built to serve takes a bump we have to get over humps and many other humps in life, is there a time where you can remember where you’ve had to get over a hump and it really made a difference for you and your life and career?

Brian Sullivan:    Let me take you in time if I may for just a minute Jim. As you mentioned I started Xerox when I got out of school and interestingly enough you also mentioned that I waited tables and wife is integrated throughout and just want to share that I actually got the job at Xerox from waiting tables. I was waiting tables down at the beach summer between my junior and senior year, waited on a guy from Xerox who asked me to send in my resume. When I got it together I did and that’s ultimately how I ended up getting a job at Xerox. The balls always in play as it were and that was really how I got started in selling. So, at Xerox it was an incredibly collaborative and communicative environment and we were schooled to use all of the assets of the organization to make decisions. And one way that we built that premise is—there was a story, there was a Xerox story that was based on the 914 copier. I don’t know if you know about the 914 copier, but Xerox 914 was the first plain paper copier ever developed and it was built by a bunch of brilliant engineers who took plain paper copying to the point where it could go to market. Before it was a very small company at that point, Xerox took the 914 to market, first machine ever to print on plain paper so it happened that potential to revolutionize an industry. But it sold for $30,000, which was a lot of money in 1959, and it weighed 650 pounds and it took up a footprint of over 20 ft.². So, it was groundbreaking as the technology was and is effective as Xerox selling team was, very few companies, very customers bought the 914. 

So, Xerox undertook an internal cross functional brainstorming exercise and they brought people from throughout the organization, people from manufacturing, finance, accounting and legal in other words they didn’t just say this is a sales problem they marshal all of the elements of the organization together to come up with a new idea, and they did. They came up with the really bold and risky plan that rather than selling 914 they were going to lease them to customers and they were going to lease them at a really economical entry point of $99 per month. And with this economical entry plan they made a huge bet on human nature because they bet that customers were going to get away from copying on to chemically treated paper and dealing with messy inks and that having the opportunity to copy on plain paper would be huge for customers and it was a big, big bet and it worked out really well because for the $99 customers received 2000 copies and for every copy over 2000, Xerox charge an additional cost. After the first six months, after they got a ton of these 914 out in offices the average copies generated by a customer over 20,000 per month. Xerox’s corporate revenues double in one year and a few short years later they were a billion dollar company all based on internal communication and collaboration driving a really great team idea, so that stuck with me, that was something that stuck with me and I carried it with me when I left Xerox. 

Jim Rembach:    That’s a phenomenal story. When you start thinking about all of the people that came together, and also in Xerox I had to imagine this team of engineers that you had to convince as well that could be rather challenging. 

Brian Sullivan:    Oh, no, no question. As you know corporate human nature being what it is the decision typically is, hey, we’ve got a sales problem, let’s change the VP of sales or let’s get a bunch of new sales guys. The Xerox had the thinking, the foresight to be able to say, let’s get everybody together and come up with a really good idea. And who could ever imagined that a pricing shift would produce what actually Forbes magazine would later call the most successful product in the history of the United States regarding ROI all based on really collaborative thinking. And you know, that leads with me today Jim, I remember when I moved on the Cap we had a process where we would make decisions about huge deal that we went after by bringing together an executive committee, bunch of high-level people in the company who all have their political agendas and they would make decisions as to whether to go after a certain piece of business. But I really pioneered bringing the people from the trenches bringing our delivery folks together the folks really had a pragmatic handle on what we’re going to do for the client I marshaled them together to drive the decisions as to whether to go after a piece of business based not on political agendas but based on what was best for the client.

Jim Rembach:    Now there’s no way that was an easy task. Who did you have the most difficulty with when trying to do that? 

Well, that’s a great point. Really folks who had built the executive committee concept and regardless of the fact that virtually—I mean a lot of people were thinking it didn’t work any longer but for the folks who had built it they didn’t want to change. But  after a few success stories, the first few success stories getting involved big wins for us but they involve big deal that we decided not to pursue because we got some really solid input from the delivery team as to what the issues might be in a deal. They often hear people talk about don’t confuse sales and delivery, right? And it’s kind of a really classic failure line because you go sell something and then you ask the delivery team to deliver something that can’t be solved next thing you know you got a deal that’s killing your year. So, by bringing the delivery folks into the decision early on we were able to do deals that were the right deals that would satisfy clients and in the end drive revenue and profitability at the same time.

Jim Rembach:    Yeah, I know. Listening to you talk—for me it’s really one of the reasons why I’ve continued and became certified in emotional intelligence because when you start talking about serving, selling, rapport building, relationship building, its emotional intelligence it’s not the product it’s not your thingy, it’s not what you do, it’s how you engage and interact and how you project it’s all of those things associated with your emotional intelligence that are proven over and over. So, we talked about that you’re trying to grow the enterprise selling business and of course you’ve got a couple of grandkids,  which is awesome, but if you start to look at all the things that you have going on, what are some your goals?

Brian Sullivan:    From a Sandler standpoint my goal is to grow the business so that we can serve clients worldwide. At this point we’re not translated in all the languages we need to and that’s our plan but we’re 127 selling business operations in 12 countries in 18 months of existence which is really exciting but more than anything we’re doing great things in serving clients and arming them with some skills, like the skills I talked about before Jim, the ability to make educated go no go decisions about opportunities that you’re trying to pursue as an organization what we do is we arm our clients with those skills.  So my charter, my challenge, my goal, is to be able to deliver that to Sandler clients all over the world, so that’s from a business standpoint. 

From a personal standpoint, I’m a very, very headed guy and my focus is to serve my family, help our kids grow their families and do anything I can to be there for our kids and grandkids. 

Jim Rembach:    And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotions. So move onward and upward faster by getting significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you learn how to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improve customer loyalty and reduce your cost to operate. Get over your emotional hump now by going to the empathymapping.com to learn more.

Jim Rembach:    Alright Fast Leader listeners it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Brian, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Brian Sullivan, are you ready to hoedown?

Brian Sullivan:    Yes sir.

Jim Rembach:    Alright. So, what do you think is holding you back from being even better leader today?

Brian Sullivan:    Certainly the challenge to keep pace with technology, social media, data and all the rest. I do a relatively good job of it but truthfully I need to be better.

Jim Rembach:    What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Brian Sullivan:    There’s no question about that. We had a CEO at Cap named Jeff and his guidance always was—do what you say you’ll do.

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Brian Sullivan:  It’s a service mentality and within that it’s a mindset of responsiveness for the people that you serve. 

Jim Rembach:    What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Brian Sullivan:    I have two of them, and they’re my ears. 

Jim Rembach:    What would be one book, and it could be from any genre, that you’d recommend to our listeners?

Brian Sullivan:    I’m actually reading it right now and it’s awesome, Black box Thinking by Matthew Syed, the ability to learn from mistakes, we all make them we all better be making them but it’s the old you win or you learn, so it’s how to take a mistake and have it make you more effective in the future.

Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Brian Sullivan. Okay, Brian this is my last Hump Day question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything you could only choose one. So, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

So I love this, this is the letter to me, right? It would be to be flexible, be willing to stray from the plan take a chance.

Jim Rembach:    Brian it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Brian Sullivan:    I’d be delighted to chat with anyone. I could be reached on email at brian.sullivan@sandler.com. Connect with me on LinkedIn, we have a Sandler Enterprise selling group on LinkedIn which we love to have everyone join, so I look forward to hearing from everyone. 

Jim Rembach:    Brian Sullivan, thank you for sharing and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot! 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

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