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214: Cheryl Strauss Einhorn: Where I am may not be where somebody else is

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn Notes Page

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn grew up trying to investigate and get to know her father to develop a deeper relationship. This led her to develop the AREA Method that gives people a systematic approach to solving big problems leveraging perspective-taking and investigation.

Cheryl was born in Baltimore, MD but mostly lived in a suburb outside of Boston along with her sister who is 14 months younger. Both of her parents are doctors and her mother was one of the first women in her medical school. Her dad was in a then-new field of medicine called Nuclear Medicine and developed several new medical tests that are today commonplace. As a result, he spent a lot of time working – both in and out of the house. This led Cheryl to try to find a way to draw him out. She began by asking him many questions that would lead to another, and so on. She taught herself how to ‘interview’ him to find out what he was thinking about. It was so successful that she not only has a close relationship with her father, but it also likely led her to pursue investigative journalism.

Cheryl has worked as a journalist for two decades now writing for publications including Barron’s, the New York Times, Foreign Policy Magazine and more. She was also live on-air for many years as an analyst for CNBC and worked as an associate TV producer at Inside Edition. It was during her early journalism work that Cheryl developed her AREA Method to help her – and now others – to solve complex problems. She was searching for a way to make big decisions better – with greater empathy and understanding for the other stakeholders involved in her stories and her decisions.

AREA, which is an acronym for Cheryl’s decision-making steps, is the only system to uniquely control for and counteract bias, focus on the incentives of others and expand knowledge while improving judgment.

After years of successful implementation of AREA, Cheryl distilled her system into her best-selling book Problem Solved, A Powerful System for Making Complex Decisions with Confidence and Conviction, with a foreword by Tony Blair, who is no stranger to complex problem solving as the former UK Prime Minister.

AREA is currently being used successfully across broad domains ranging from low-income high schools, to multi-national companies like Goldman Sachs, to government agencies including the State Department and graduate schools such as Columbia Business School.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @cheryleinhorn to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“Our brains set mental shortcuts, simply because otherwise we’d have decision fatigue.” – Click to Tweet

“We need well-worn pathways, assumptions, judgments and biases, but they don’t go away when we’re solving for complex problems.” – Click to Tweet

“In today’s world we all have information overflow.” – Click to Tweet

“Perspective-taking allows you to walk in somebody else’s footsteps and push yourself out of your own perspective.” – Click to Tweet

“In order to invest in an uncertain future that is valuable to you, you need to have time for thoughtful reflection.” – Click to Tweet

“You need to know when to slow down and what to do when you slow down.” – Click to Tweet

“If you come into complex problem solving and assume it should go very rapidly, you’re not really investing in yourself and the relationships you’re engaging in.” – Click to Tweet

“You’d rather get to a decision that has a good outcome for you, than get to a decision quickly.” – Click to Tweet

“Relationships is what gives us our quality of life.” – Click to Tweet

“We’re all inconsistent decision makers.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn grew up trying to investigate and get to know her father to develop a deeper relationship. This led her to develop the AREA Method that gives people a systematic approach to solving big problems leveraging perspective-taking and investigation.

Advice for others

Put things in context and don’t granularize.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

Using the cheetah pause even more.

Best Leadership Advice

Be here now. Really be present. So that you can really connect with people.

Secret to Success

General joy for the day.

Best tools in business or life

The art of the question.

Recommended Reading

Problem Solved: A Powerful System for Making Complex Decisions with Confidence and Conviction

The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance

Contacting Cheryl Strauss Einhorn

Website: https://www.areamethod.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/cheryleinhorn

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheryl-strauss-einhorn-57353823/

Resources and Show Mentions

The Future Project

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

 

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

214: Cheryl Strauss Einhorn: Where I am may not be where somebody else is

 

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

Call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen so go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path e-book now.

 

Okay Fast Leader Legion, today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to help us make big decisions significantly better. Sheryl Strauss Einhorn was born in Baltimore, Maryland but mostly lived in a suburb outside of Boston along with her sister who is 14 months younger. Both of her parents are doctors and her mother was one of the first women in her medical school. Her dad was, then in new field of medicine called nuclear medicine and developed several new medical tests that are today commonplace. As a result he spent a lot of time working both in and out of the house, this led Cheryl to try to find a new way to draw him out. She began by asking him one question that would lead to another and so on. She taught herself how to interview him to find what he was thinking about. It was so successful that she not only has a close relationship with her father but is also like it also likely led her to pursue investigative journalism. 

 

Cheryl has worked as a journalist for two decades now writing for publications including Barrons, The New York Times, Foreign Policy Magazine and more. She was live on air for many years as an analyst for CNBC and worked and worked as an associate TV producer at Inside Edition. It was during her early journalism work that Sheryl developed an area method to help her and now others to solve complex problems. She was searching for a way to make big decisions better with greater empathy and understanding for the other stakeholders involved in her stories and her decisions. A.R.E.A. which is an acronym for Cheryl’s decision-making steps is the only system to uniquely control and counteract bias focus on the incentives of others and expand knowledge while improving judgment. After years of successful implementation of A.R.E.A. Sheryl distilled her system into her best-selling book, Problem Solved: A Powerful System for Making Complex Decisions with Confidence and Conviction. 

 

With a foreword by Tony Blair, who is no stranger to complex problem solving as the former UK Prime Minister, A.R.E.A.’s currently being used successfully across broad domains ranging from low-income schools to multinational companies like, Goldman Sachs to government agencies including the State Department and graduate schools such as Columbia Business School. Sheryl Straus Einhorn, are you ready to help us get over the hump? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:        Absolutely. Thanks for having me here today Jim.

 

Jim Rembach:       I’m glad you’re here. I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better. 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:          Certainly.  I’ve been just so fortunate for the work that I’ve been able to do with A.R.E.A. that I would say my passion really has been to see how A.R.E.A. is able to help individuals, nonprofits, schools and more to be able to have greater confidence and conviction in not only their own problem solving but also use a system that can really strengthen the important relationships in their life by focusing on the other stakeholders involved in their decisions. 

 

Jim Rembach:    When you start talking about decision making and within the book you talk about, there are really only a few absolutes and there’s tons of gray area, and the A.R.E.A. method is a way to navigate the gray areas and avoid those mental shortcuts that enable us to make small decisions easily but may impair our judgment when making big decisions. And so when I started thinking about the decisions that we have to go through making and how many times we stumble, it’s almost like gosh, I wonder if we get such an—like cruise control or in a systematic way that we’re just taking information making decisions that we don’t really recognize what it’s a big decision that we need to use something different to be able to solve for. 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     Well, I think that’s a good insight. Researchers tell us that we make about 40,000 decisions in any given day. So, that’s everything from what side of the bed to get up on in the morning to what kind of a late night snack how big a late-night snack and how close to bedtime should we have that. And so our brains have set up these mental shortcuts simply because otherwise we’d have decision fatigue. Picture yourself walking into your local supermarket standing in the cereal aisle if you didn’t know what color box or roughly where it was in the store you’d be overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices because the average supermarket also has about 35,000 different items in it. So what happens is we need these well-worn pathways these assumptions judgments these biases but they don’t go away when we’re solving for complex problems. And so what happens is we end up using well-worn pathways that may not serve us when we’re solving for complex problems. And so what A.R.E.A. tries to do is to find a way to pry open some cognitive space to really allow for new information and new insight when we want to solve big decisions. 

 

Jim Rembach:    It’s really interesting that you say that because a while back I was looking at some things associated with brain research and oftentimes researchers try to categorize certain parts of our brain for certain activities. One of the things they were talking about is like decision making where our brain gets accessed and some research has just come out not too long ago that basically says our entire brain lights up when it tries searching—our archives on how to go about making a particular decision. For me I kind of see you saying that, well if our brain is lighting up and not able to find a particular pathway that we need something like A.R.E.A. in order to help move forward otherwise we just are going to be stuck and frozen. 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     I think that it’s not only that our brain looks for what have we done in the past regardless of whether or not it has necessarily worked out for us, which is problematic. But the other thing is that in today’s world we all have information overflow. And so when we’re faced with a complex problem one of the most off-putting and frustrating parts of the process is, where do you start? How do you decide where you’re going to look for information?  Are those kinds of information sources credible? And so on. And so A.R.E.A. tackles that as well. What A.R.E.A. says is instead of how are you going to solve your complex problem, it says don’t worry about that. Invert the question and instead ask yourself something that many people find far more empowering. Which is, what do you have to have happen in the outcome of your decision to know that it has succeeded for you personally? So now without even knowing how you’re going to solve it you probably are able to identify what needs to happen in the outcome for you to know that it has succeeded and from there you can derive what I call your critical concepts which are the one two or three things that need to happen in that outcome for you to solve for that vision of success. So now you no longer have an open-ended research problem instead you have something that is targeted and focused on what you deem needs to happen for the decision to have a successful outcome for you.

 

Jim Rembach:    Well, I think it probably fair at this point before we go further to talk about what the A.R.E.A.  method actually stands for and throughout the book you have something called cheetah sheets and cheetah notes and messages and we’ll talk about that in a second because I think that in itself is a powerful mental model, but you talk about you know as far as A.R.E.A  being the theory and the idea and what the acronym oh it stands for is absolute understanding your target relative research related sources, exploration broaden your perspective, and there’s also another e in there which is exploitation which is challenged, assumptions and then an analysis which is reduce uncertainty and make your decision. Now you talked about being able to create and evolve this method over the course of time. What kind of started you down this path in order to figure about, oh wait a minute, I needed to cheat a moment maybe this is the time for you to explain cheat a moment and then we need to do something different here.

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     My background as you pointed out as an investigative journalism, and I spent a decade as an editor and columnist at the business magazine Barrons and while I was there I ended up specializing in what you might consider calling the, bearish company’s story. Those are stories that take a skeptical look at a company’s finances or at their strategy. Now when these stories would come out a lot of times there’d be a big share price reaction. Sometimes the stock exchanges would halt the stock sometimes regulators would get involved. One time a CEO went to jail for 10 years, a couple of companies went out of business, and as this happened the story really weighed heavily on me and what I realized is it’s not just somebody as investment portfolio it could be their retirement account it could be your ability if you work at one of these companies to show up in the morning or if you are a customer of the products and services that these kind of companies have that also would be impacted. And so I just started to think about how could I have greater confidence and conviction in my own decision making and given that I had a very nice middle middle-class background outside of Boston, as you also mentioned that’s also a limited background, and so how could I better confront my own mental shortcuts. At the time new research was coming out how we all had these heuristic these sort of shortcuts that tend to impede our ability to see new information as we were talking about. And so I just thought this idea of the beginner’s mind that’s hubris, I can’t look at a data set and just say I’m going to be objective now and be objective. And so instead I thought, you know what, given my background in research what about the idea of putting together a research process. Could I basically invert that and instead of saying I’m going to be objective just acknowledge I’m a flawed thinker and set up a construct that would allow me to work with and works through ambiguity so that I could better focus on the incentives and motives of the sources who are giving me their stories and have an opportunity to control for and counteract some of my own mental shortcuts so that I could, as you explained before expand my knowledge while improving my judgment. And so that’s really how I came up with A.R.E A.R.E.A it was an attempt to do a more ethical job at Barron’s and have greater confidence and conviction than my own decision making. 

 

Jim Rembach:    When you started talking about being able to apply this I don’t suspect that you had a nice little system together and then Boom! you had success. How long did it take for you to actually know and refine and iterate and know that you had something that could be repeatable and leveraged by others? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     For me the linchpin moment was recognizing that I wanted a perspective-taking system. The reason why perspective-taking is so powerful is it gives you a beautiful two-for-one. As you walk in somebody else’s footsteps you not only better understand their incentives and motives but you also push yourself out of your own perspective which gives you an ability to sort of better confront your own assumptions and judgments. And so the thing that I recognized that really was the game changer was this idea of separating out our sources and that’s why you have absolute and then the next concentric circle of information is relative and then the twin engines of creativity the E which is exploration and exploitation and then the final A, analysis. And so for me understanding that this separation of sources could allow me to better able to sass out incentives and motives and confront my biases, that was the moment that I realized that I was onto something that I wanted to continually refine, iterate. And then when I was invited to teach at Columbia University first at the Graduate School of Journalism and now the Business School where I’ve been for the last decade or so, I noticed it didn’t matter who tried the system it worked for students at the journalism school that have any business or financial background students at the business school who didn’t know anything about interviewing with this powerful combination of the perspective-taking and this ability to understand how to talk to other people to understand their frame of reference really seem to help people to better problem-solve and to strengthen their relationships. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, so when I start thinking about the effect and impact—okay, you kind of had some a given lab sitting right there with all of the students, have you been able to leverage it back into the investigative journalism arena?

 

Cheryl Strauss:    I certainly use it in my own stories. Actually I talk about in the book in the exploration chapter one of the big investigative pieces that I did for foreign policy magazine and ProPublica which was a story about the World Bank. I go through how I think about applying those different steps when I discussed that story and of course I’ve now been very fortunate to use it at different companies and also with nonprofits and in some low-income schools. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I can think the whole perspective taking piece while we can recognize that that is important that we often have an issue with speed. Meaning that going through and trying to solve big problems it takes significantly more prep work and effort and all of that investigative piece you’re talking about, however, I need to move on this. So, how can people especially in a business environment make sure that they’re not shortchanging and shortcutting the framework and compromising themselves? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     I would say two things, we are in an environment where we constantly feel this need for speed. Our technology works so quickly for us and we’ve sort of really learned that things should come rapidly to us. But in order to invest in an uncertain future that is valuable to you need to be able to have time for thoughtful reflection and you need to know when to slow down and what to do when you slow down and those pauses really refresh. So you end up getting your work to better work for you. If you come into complex problem-solving and you just assume that it should go very rapidly you’re not really making an investment in yourself and in the relationships that you’re engaging. I do think that while something like A.R.E.A.  is meant to be repeatable and flexible and you should be able to use it in the way that you want so you may apply all of it or you may only apply some steps at any one given time because we’re all resource bound this idea that you want to take the time to learn the system so it can be an operating system for you is an investment in your ability to do exactly that. And as you mentioned before I build in what I call cheetah pauses, so why the cheetah? The Cheetah’s prodigious hunting skill is not its ability to accelerate like a racecar it’s actually that it decelerates by up to nine miles an hour in a single stride. In hunting that’s far more valuable than the acceleration because that deceleration that is where you get agility flexibility and maneuverability those are all the things that you really want in a quality research and decision-making system for you. So as you’re going through the area mapping I continually have suggestions for where to take a cheetah pause and when I suggest that even more importantly I have a cheetah sheet which tells you, okay, so what? What do you want to do now? And it provides you with either where to look for sources of information that may be useful for where you are in the process or what kind of analysis might you want to apply to the information that you’ve gathered.

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, so when I’m thinking about the area method and who can best leverage this for me I started moving and gravitating towards people who are actually in that strategic planning, strategic decision-making part of an organization. I mean do you find that others and operations can actually leverage this as well? Or is it pretty much just in that strategic realm area?

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     The really nice thing is it can be for every type of person it doesn’t matter. One of the things that’s been so interesting since the book has come out is the different types of places that have asked me for instance to give talks to their employers or to their customers everything from meditation and wellness organizations to groups that are helping people re-enter the workforce to startup companies to Fortune 500 companies it doesn’t matter where you work or what you are doing the A.R.E.A. method is there to help you with both personal and professional decisions. Actually this week I launched a podcast for the first time where I am interviewing people who are using the A.R.E A method. What are you using it for? How are you using it? What works and what doesn’t? And the person who I interviewed for this first podcast he used it for his honeymoon. Who would ever think that you would take an analytic decision-making system and apply it to something as romantic as a honeymoon? And what was so fun about the interview and you can access it at my website which is areamethod.com is that he said it’s exactly the kind of problem you want to apply it to. 

 

Here you have a vacation that has much greater import than any vacation you’ve taken before. You’re starting a new family. You’re also probably likely to spend more than you’ve spent on other vacations. You’re also spending it at a time where you’re making a lot of other big money decisions because you’re planning a wedding at the same time. In addition while of course you just want to assume that it’s going to be relaxing and fun there’s actually the planning fallacy that gets in the way of this idea that the vacation should just be perfect on its own. And so putting in this up one time to think about, well, what kind of honeymoon did they want? How would they know it succeeded for them? Identifying their critical concepts was not only a fascinating interview but turned out to be something that for them was an incredibly successful usage for A.R.E.A. but of course, I never could have imagined.

 

Jim Rembach:    Well I can definitely see how that honeymoon decision was probably bigger than any business decision he could ever make that would actually affect your life forever and beyond wouldn’t it? When we start talking about making some of these decisions and really learning from them failing from them all those things that are important to us from that growth perspective is that oftentimes we have to look towards quotes in order to help direct us. And so is there a quote or two that you like that you can share?

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     Sure there’s a Voltaire quote that I love, which is, judge a man by his questions rather than his answers. I think that’s essentially showing up for other people and the perspective taking and the ability to ask other people where they are and why they are where they are and what evidence they’re using to formulate their stance or their reasoning is something that can really help to bring us together and to holistically solve our problems when we’re involving other stakeholders in our decisions. 

 

Jim Rembach:    One of the things I liked about the A.R.E.A.  method is that oftentimes with our decision making it’s iterative, we have that gray matter that we need to navigate. You actually talked about the steps actually building upon one another and radiating out and providing as a feedback loop. So, when you start looking at the area method and the speed and decision-making and we talked about speed being important does that feedback loop process actually assist with shortening? Have you proven that shortens the decision making timeline and cycle? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     it certainly can but the idea is that not all investigations are linear nor should they be so at times you need to be driven back into **all of the process. That’s really part of the beauty of A.R.E.A.  is this concept of, can I make my mistakes before I make them? You can’t do that all the time but sometimes you can. The exercises that are in the area e part, exploitation, help you with that because it forces you to confront your own assumptions and judgments with evidence. I find for my students, for companies, or individuals, or nonprofits that I work with it’s often those exercises in exploitation their drive people back into **your parts of the process. Because you’d rather get to a decision that has a good outcome for you then get to a decision quickly. 

 

Jim Rembach:    That’s a good point. Now one of the things that we will look at is times where others have had mistakes, you talked about me making a mistake before I make it or avoiding one is also important, and so that’s why we share on the show. Is there a time where you’ve had to get over the hump something you’ve learned where we maybe not make that same mistake?

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     One of the things that you mentioned in my bio is just sort of critical to how I’ve developed as a person. That was this idea that—my father who was such an important person—we traveled around the world following him and sitting at some of his speeches that he gave and going into the hospital with him on vacations or on weekends many times trying to figure out who he was as a person and recognizing that when somebody’s busy up here doesn’t mean that you want to just let the situation be. The onus is on us to try to figure out how to create that safe space for other people to enter it so that we really can build relationships which is what gives us our quality of life. This idea that something so simple, this idea of the question was just a something that was transformational in my life. For a long time he would not make it home for dinner or not be available even when he was at home and figuring out that I didn’t want to give up and that relationships are integral to our quality of life. And this idea that how do you asks something so somebody can enter into it? This idea of open versus closed questions. The fact that there are knowledge questions versus information questions versus opinion questions versus feeling questions and that you want to use these at different times with different people because otherwise we come into a situation we assume we know what’s going on. I don’t know if this has happened to you but this has happened to me many times, I’ll come home from an evening or an event or an episode that has occurred and when I confer with the person who I was with we’ve had entirely different experiences. And so understanding that where I am may not be where somebody else is and constantly having that opportunity to check in because I can ask a question, that allows me hopefully to really not only prevent misunderstandings which can be very detrimental to us emotionally as well as in our work life and so on, is something that I think is just available to everybody who wants to give it a try and I think that’s really nice. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I think it is, I’m looking forward to you especially with two teenagers and soon to have a third I think I need to really step back and have more Cheetah moments for sure but then also have this framework so that I can actually remove some of the emotional aspects and the frustrations and stuff just dealing with those kids who don’t have a whole lot of prefrontal cortex development yet, within their judgement. 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     So somebody who has three kids and two of them have come through most of the teenage years and one who’s still there it’s not removing emotion it’s this idea of working with emotion. Because the emotion is often what sets up these mental biases too. We stopped being able to process and our brain goes to something that we’ve done before or gives us an example that may not work and the fascinating thing about teenagers is who they are one minute is not who they are the next minute. We’re not quite as frenetic as they are even though we’re all inconsistent decision-makers ourselves. But this idea about working with and working through the ambiguity and giving yourself the opportunity to really look at it from their perspective is something that I think can really help because parenting is the toughest job in the world.

 

Jim Rembach:    Most definitely. As the saying goes you really can’t understand it until you’ve actually done it. When I start looking at the things that you have associated with the book, the teaching, all the work that you’re doing I’m sure you have a goal or two that you’d like to accomplish. But when you start thinking about just one of them what would one of your goals be that you can share?

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     Well, one of the very exciting things that’s come out of the publication of this book was that a national nonprofit called the future project approached me and said I love this and the number one ask for help that we get from high school principals is how to help teenagers make these decisions better. And so he asked me if I would put together a boot camp and see what would it look like to teach decision-making to high school students? And so on a rainy Sunday about a year ago I put together a boot camp for high school students from Newark, Brooklyn and Manhattan to learn part of the A.R.E.A.  method. When I thought about how did teenagers learn? They spend a lot of time on their phone or on their electronic devices. And so I developed a digital module, think of it like a web-based app that they can use on their phone or on a computer or a tablet that can give them an opportunity to develop some of the skills for A.R.E.A. And so last year I developed then a couple digital modules because that boot camp was so successful and three hundred students in nine high schools in five states actually use the prototype modules and that was very successful so this year I’ve actually set it up as a company that I’m calling, Decisive, and I’ve been building more of these blended digital experiences that students can use but interestingly I’ve also been using the modules in the corporate world, in my talks at conferences and at companies. And so a big goal for me is to really try to see what’s going to happen as

I continue to develop the modules now that I’m doing an expanded pilot that will launch in early 2019 in high schools and I’m using it for some businesses, what is this tend to give people in terms of their own professional development in terms of their ability to build a better culture for where they work or where they are interacting? How is this really giving them some of the skills to have greater confidence and conviction in their own decision-making? 

 

And the Fast Leader legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. 

 

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Jim Rembach:     Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion it’s time to do the Hump day Hoedown. Okay, the Hump day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. We’ll ask you several questions but your job is to give us robust and rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Cheryl Strauss Einhorn, are you ready to hoedown? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     I’m try. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     Using the cheetah pause even more. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What do you think is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     The art of the question. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     I think it’s to be here now. This idea of really being present in the situation that you’re in so that you can have an opportunity to really connect with people. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What do you believe is one of your secrets that helps you lead in business or life? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     I think it’s my general joy for the day. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What would be one book that you’d recommend to our legion, it could be from any genre of course we’ll put a link to your book on the show notes page as well. 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     One of my favorite books is, The art of Learning by Josh Waitzkin where he sort of breaks down this art of learning into what he calls smaller circles. I think this idea about taking a problem and breaking it down is something that I really like and I use an A.R.E.A.  I read the book not long ago and really recommend it. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader Legion, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Cheryl Straus Einhorn. Okay, Cheryl, this is my last hump day hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25, and you’ve been given the chance to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     I would take the cheetah pause. I think when you’re in your twenties it’s hard to recognize the moment that you’re in. You’re moving quickly and you’re also don’t ** what’s going on around you, say that for other people but certainly I feel that way myself. If I could go back in time and say Cheryl put things in context and don’t granulize that’s the environment that I would give myself. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Cheryl, it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

 

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:     Certainly. First thank you so much for this opportunity I’ve really enjoyed it. I would hope that people will reach out to me at my website which is areamethod.com. And you can also contact me directly through that site and I look forward to hearing your feedback to help you make big decisions better. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Cheryl Strauss Einhorn, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast

Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today for recaps links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

 

END OF AUDIO 

 

 

136: Keith Pearce: That’s probably where I grew up the most

Keith Pearce Show Notes Page

Keith Pearce was a young manager working for a company that was in decline while living in Europe. He was given the corporate script to read as he told employees they no longer had a job. He practiced his speech and then he had to look people in the eye. That’s when his plan required a change.

Keith was born in Colorado Springs, CO the son of a career Air Force officer – and raised with the dual identities of a southerner from his father’s roots in North Central Florida and a New England identity from his mother’s roots in Boston.  The youngest of 3, the values of family first, serving others, supporting those less fortunate and hard work were consistent themes of the Pearce household.  This showed up in the form of weekend chores, a home environment run with military discipline, and sports and work participation from very early ages.  At 13, Keith had his first job bussing tables at Perkins Restaurant.  He’s lived in eleven different states and two different countries from his upbringing and career.

For over twenty years Keith Pearce has pursued a passion for customer service and technology — working in multiple facets of the service industry to help companies realize the benefits of great service. At Siemens, he worked in sales and marketing to grow the market for its call center solutions. At start-up SpeechWorks, he helped create the initial market for speech recognition software, working in business consulting and marketing. While at contact center software leader Genesys, Keith ran EMEA marketing from Paris, France before leading the company’s solution and corporate marketing functions.

In his current role as Vice President of Product Marketing at Salesforce, he continues to pursue his passion for the service industry, and the service trailblazers who work in it, by emphasizing the opportunity for business leaders to connect with their customers in a whole new way — while creating awareness for the company’s leading Service Cloud solution. He is a frequent speaker, blogger and commentator on how technology is changing the way companies and their customers communicate.

Keith holds degrees from the University of Florida and Georgetown University.  He lives in Moraga, CA with his wife, a kindergarten teacher, and two boys, ages 13 and 16.  The legacy he is proud to leave behind is consistent with what he enjoyed from his early upbringing: serve others, leaves things better than you found them, be kind, show compassion, be a global citizen and, more than anything, stay humble.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @Pistolprce to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“There’s various ways people can serve; we’re working in customer service.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet

“The fundamental thing in business is serve customers.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“Bells and whistles can only appease for so long.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“For a company to differentiate itself, it isn’t by bells and whistles.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“It’s very hard to beat a great and consistent customer experience.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“Get into a relationship thinking about long-term value for both.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“Products are customized with services and elevated to experiences.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“How do you communicate change in different terms than your own narrative?” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“Sometimes there’s no good way to deliver bad news.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“We fall into patterns as people and look up, and something tragic happens.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“You’re serving people, not a machine or computer.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“You get closer to having it figured out by taking someone else’s perspective.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“Everyone has something they do better than you.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

“The more you think you’ve got it all figured out, the more trouble you’re in.” -Keith Pearce Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Keith Pearce was a young manager working for a company that was in decline while living in Europe. He was given the corporate script to read as he told employees they no longer had a job. He practiced his speech and then he had to look people in the eye. That’s when his plan required a change.

Advice for others

Wait to talk and learn others points of views.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

More self-awareness.

Best Leadership Advice

Work hard.

Secret to Success

Work hard.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

Listening.

Recommended Reading

Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln

Contacting Keith Pearce

email: pistolprce [at] yahoo.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Pistolprce

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithpearce/

Resources and Show Mentions

10 Steps to a Better agent Career Path

Increase Employee Engagement and Workplace Culture

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

 

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

136: Keith Pearce: That’s probably where I grew up the most

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

Jim Rembach:   Welcome Fast Leader legion. Today’s episode was actually recorded on location at call center weekend Las Vegas. We’re at the Mirage Hotel and had an opportunity to do it in front of a live audience at the event. I hope you enjoy this interview. And now on to the interview with Keith Pearce. 

 

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Okay, Fast Leader legion today I am really excited because I have somebody on the show today who can give us a global perspective of what is like to work in the contact center customer experience space. Keith Pearce was born in Colorado Springs, Colorado. A son of a career Air Force officer and raised with dual identities of a southerner from his father’s roots in North Central Florida and a New England identity from his mother’s roots in Boston.  The youngest of 3, the values of family first, serving others, supporting those less fortunate and hard work were consistent themes of the Pearce household.  This showed up in the form of weekend chores, a home environment run with military discipline, and sports and work participation from very early ages.  At 13, Keith had his first job bussing tables at Perkins Restaurant.  He’s lived in eleven different states and two different countries from his upbringing and career. 

 

For over twenty years Keith Pearce has pursued a passion for customer service and technology — working in multiple facets of the service industry to help companies realize the benefits of great service. At Siemens, he worked in sales and marketing to grow the market for its call center solutions. At start-up, SpeechWorks, he helped create the initial market for speech recognition software, working in business consulting and marketing. While at contact center software leader Genesys, Keith ran EMEA marketing from Paris, France before leading the company’s solution and corporate marketing functions.

In his current role as Vice President of Product Marketing at Salesforce, he continues to pursue his passion for the service industry, and the service trailblazers who work in it, by emphasizing the opportunity for business leaders to connect with their customers in a whole new way — while creating awareness for the company’s leading Service Cloud solution. He is a frequent speaker, blogger and commentator on how technology is changing the way companies and their customers communicate. Keith holds degrees from the University of Florida and Georgetown University.  He lives in Moraga, CA with his wife, a kindergarten teacher, and two boys, ages 13 and 16.  The legacy he is proud to leave behind is consistent with what he enjoyed from his early upbringing: serve others, leave things better than you found them, be kind, show compassion, be a global citizen and, more than anything, stay humble. Keith Pearce, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Keith Pearce:   I am. I’m ready to try this, thank you.

Jim Rembach:  I appreciate it your being here. Now, I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better.

Keith Pearce:   I’m very passionate about this area of customer service, customer experience. I didn’t choose this career deliberately to go into. And as you read my father came from military background up to the ends of my family but there are various ways that you can serve whether it’s support in government in the military or working in this industry, customer service. And for me I just get a lot of pride at helping people it makes us feel good. We help people solve problem speed that—customer service department, retail department anywhere you interact with the customers for me that’s sort of the innate and just what I love to do.

Jim Rembach:  Thanks for sharing that. You bring up a really interesting point because oftentimes people are almost ashamed to say that they work in the contact center industry. But based on what you were just saying and even your family upbringing it’s actually a quite noble profession. 

Keith Pearce:   I think it’s extremely noble. I think it’s kind of interesting with all the pride and innovation to see the companies all of this strategy, all the smart CEO’s the fundamental thing some of the stalwarts in business start as Henry Ford’s and Walden on and on it’s just to serve customers. And that ethos I think we got away from when we rushed to kind of launch new products and you price promotions and things like that sensing how it keeps them around. When they started customer service customer experience did that at one time as a differentiator for business. A lot of people did very well felt the industries innovated with that sort of (5:00 inaudible) what they did.

Jim Rembach:  I can only imagine too looking at your background and experience in that when you start talking about products and solutions many years ago it used to be the whole features and benefit things this are our bells and our whistles and when you start looking at the buyer of today, are they still looking for the bells and whistles? Or are they looking for something different? 

Keith Pearce:   I think they’re looking for the experience, the whole experience and they realize the bells and whistles are—they can only last so long and then sort of piece what they’re looking for. The thing that’s consistently sustainable for company to differentiate itself aren’t bells and whistles—they’ll have the same look for an iPhone since the iPhone watches. If they want a competitive interest rate another bank will have it just literally within days sometimes within hours that’s where technology works best they’re able to do that but it’s very hard to be the great consistent customer experience and if you can deliver on that that differentiate in long term. 

Jim Rembach:   So there used to be unless we’ve heard—when you’re starting about domestic and international you have that global experience and exposure with what you do, what big differences do you see globally when you start talking about the experience and the service piece? 

Keith Pearce:   It’s interesting having lived in Europe for almost third of my life and travel a lot there is a change in the dynamic between the company where provider and customer outside the working area context. In some places you have to take all of the wall—so that being a good customer and not just having when can expectations are going to be serve the same way you’re served in U in  parts of your Europe for example. Some of that speaks to their culture and the heritage and frankly but—we went to a shop in France people are tripping over themselves to serve you, why? In their society you’re in their home and they’re very proud of what they have. So the greeting that you make to the shopkeeper to acknowledge you’re in their home is really important it diffuses some of the tension a lot of Americans receive when they make bad sounds from the French. And I just know new flat with French If you know how to get service there the best customer experiences and moments I’ve ever had. In France right, and most of the (7:20 inaudible) have a very different view and opinion of that, they’re arrogant, they’re snobs, you’re in their home, you’re in their country if you make some basic efforts to show that you appreciate their things what they’re providing the return you get is just incredible. 

Jim Rembach:  For me, I’m certified in emotional intelligence and the whole employee engagement piece and the leadership is important component and when you start thinking about a client-vendor relationship I’ve heard where you think about the EMEA market specifically there’s a whole different way that business is done that is absolutely more heavy on the relationship than we experience here tell us more about that?

Keith Pearce:   I think back to the culture and the heritage I think that general statement but you know Americans are—maybe our geography, we’re engage in shorter relationship it seems like just want to move from one to another quickly. In Europe, my experience is they have eager relationships for longer amount of time because it’s harder to really make a relationship and then have one that is more sustained. And I think that’s the way they view customer relationship as well once you have a customer that’s like a member of the family you treat them with all the dignity sickled with that all the respect, courtesy and openness. Whereas in the American side at least in perspective it’s more of what are you trying to get out of a relationship? What are you finding? And often those conditions are I think it’s just fin the meaning in a relationship and next to sustainable. 

Jim Rembach:  So when you start thinking about overall value on both sides of the purchase, whether it’s the client’s side and the actual vendor side and the relationship being such an important component. When you start thinking about the differences globally, what can we learn here in the States that others are doing in order to help us get more value out of the relationship that we have with our vendors? 

Keith Pearce:   Yeah, I think it’s probably the move from sort of transactional—what can I sell you now? How can I move to the other—you don’t have to look very far in the last couple of months to see what kind of trouble like can be things in you name it. Companies like Uber reputations they have where they’re going to exploit the customer somehow and that might not be overt initially that might be something you have to dig for but that kind of bad behavior just kind of has a way of coming on the roost just like. So, I think if you begin a relationship thinking about long term value of creation for both in that how do I transact? How do I sell you the next thing till I’ve really deliver for what I set? How do I perform my promise as a vendor for a client? For me those are the kind of relationship customers are looking for today what they’re willing to pay more for. It doesn’t only show up on the Balance Sheet on the first quarter or the second quarter in the first year than long term. It’s interesting if (10:27 inaudible)their business model hasn’t change in a long time, put customers first do everything you can to serve the customer, probably read the books about the things they do it’s just old fashioned ethos. It’s moving into the digital, yes, but people still hang on premium for goods there and probably stay because of that service and that relationship.

Jim Rembach:  If you’re going to give somebody some advice who was looking for a solution and they have a mindset like, hey, I’m going to look and have everybody just kind of compete and bid against each other, who would you tell that type of person? 

Keith Pearce:   I think it depends on the industry that you’re in but I just don’t think you’re setting yourself up for long term value of creation or gain if you do that, If you’re engaged in that kind of transaction. It depends on the industry but if you’re trying to sell a commodity then maybe that makes sense. As long as (11:20 inaudible) it doesn’t matter where they comes from that’s being (11:23 inaudible). Try to sell something that’s got value and background and has a service background. We’re in an experience economy where goods and products are customized and services and I think they’re elevated to experiences. That doesn’t translate across every industry but in main stream industry is where the goods are very hard to distinguish from each other this is so easy to replicate it but it’s the overall experience (11:49 inaudible).

Jim Rembach:  So when you start thinking about when you came onboard with Salesforce you inherited quite (11:56 inaudible) and so when you look at all of the things that you had in front of you what was the thing that you actually addressed first?

Keith Pearce:   We’re still addressing it’s the awareness that Salesforce has a service solution. Salesforce by our name we’re synonymous with sales. And the company starts 17 years ago as a cloud base provider, an Internet service for sales persons. Our sales people maintain our contact list within our forecast, grow the pipeline identify leads in that system. That suppose something is challenge whenever there’s opportunity because it’s not a name in the name and we do service and we’re not going to change the name of the service force right away. So that’s the biggest challenge how do you take a company that’s known for Salesforce automation, that does great things around marketing and elevate this great service  solution that we have that not enough people of those bounds are using. 

Jim Rembach:  Oftentimes, they talk about the disconnect between sales and service in organization a situations where—this is just an example, sales roll a promise and then services unable to deliver and the marketing messages is very convoluting. So when you start thinking about your relationship with your sales organization, how do you create a tighter bond and bridge to let you have more success?

Keith Pearce:   Yeah, it’s now in Australia but it is it’s all about customer success. What we’re selling is a subscription it’s not like a subscription of a magazine. If the customers like they can cancel the subscription so that business model requires you to make customers successful for their own. So, that for me is part of real compelling nature of foul economics but also putting customers at the center breaking out that wall. There’s a paragon we’ve talked about earlier, I don’t have the name of the company that was selling accounts to customer they didn’t know I have, why? Because it worked and the shareholders wanted to see more cross central activity, you know exactly what we’re talking about and it’s time we need to know. So short term gain, yeah, they knock down the stock price? Yeah, did that make some people a couple more hundred million dollars (13:56 inaudible)? Sure (13:59 inaudible) and a bunch of sold accounts to customer if they didn’t know they had one they didn’t know they want. So, their transformation is hard with learn in line with sales and service where it’s not about what did I sell it’s like how can I provide value in a relationship and how do we grow that together at the time. 

Jim Rembach:   So when you start thinking about your role within Salesforce as an organization and what you’re trying to do as service cloud and you look at the competitive landscape, which like you were saying is kind of hard to tell your solution providers from one to the next, what about Salesforce from a culture-perspective and a relationship-perspective sets you apart from the rest?

Keith Pearce:   It’s the ethos of customer success. When you come to our bench, yes, there’s the grandstanding every company does having their evangelist talking about where the technology is going, we do that great, but everything we deal is constant the customer talking about how to use it. So we go and qualify the little amount about having a customer sort of bouncing for it and talking about how they’re using it how it’s saving the money or how investment and that’s I think a reflection of that model of customer’s success. You don’t have that if you don’t have this ethos of make every customer successful. And you don’t have to come to work every day thinking about how we’re going to make customer satisfied. We hear that a lot that and that clings on a different meaning when someone will turn you off like that.

Jim Rembach:   So when we start talking about this industry that we’re in, when we start talking about the buy- sell the vendor relationship climate all those things there’s a lot of passion with that. One of the things we look at on the show are quotes because a lot of times they can kind of give us the energy, is there a quote that you can share?

Keith Pearce:   Yeah, it’s interesting you ask that because I didn’t workshop living in the side that the workshop session it falls on Tuesday, the day we’re together now. I use this quote from Socrates of ancient Greece which is—the secret of change is to focus all of your energy not on fighting the old but on building the new. That’s one that have meaning to me on my personal level, business relationship level where we talked about before but also in the context of where the system is going and change. If you think about change in those terms I’d say a long time ago and still just down until today. 

Jim Rembach:   Definitely it carries on for and will forever till the ends of days as they say. I started looking at your background a look at the companies that you work with the moving around you had a whole lot of experiences for certain but you’ve also had probably a lot of humps to get over. Is there one that you could share with us?

Keith Pearce:   Yeah. I think about when I was in Europe and I was working for a company that was in decline and was clear to everyone. And so that isn’t always a pretty environment to walk and do every day when you know you got to make tough decisions. At a fairly young age where I have to make tough decisions about who’s going to be on the team moving forward and who wasn’t? The way people embrace change or don’t can create challenges from end at such fairly young man at that time. That learning from how you communicate change and put them in context for people in different terms than what is your own (17:24 inaudible) You want to practice you’re own speech and this is going to be the best case for everyone is that it doesn’t always translate, it’s doesn’t always flow over say that sort of step out of your shoes and think of that from other people’s perspective helps me pack it down. And sometimes there is no way to deliver good news but now I think seeing change from other people’s perspective than your own. You get the script from the company to read and yet when you’re looking somebody in the eye you have to tell them this stuff as exactly as it was that’s when you can grow up and that’s when you really get humbled about change.

Jim Rembach:   So when you start thinking about those times are really, like you said they are really challenging, but can you think about one of those interactions that kind of stands out with you that you could share with us?

Keith Pearce:   Yeah, I think part of the downsizing and having to tell people they don’t have a job anymore. In European context there’s a different, there’s an informant from my—sense versus this decision the company has made there’s not so much from recognition with that. So, I think in going through that and having to have those conversations with people and helping people understand how their talents and skills quite outside of where they were already. I went from—I’m going to start with this script and everything else will be great to really help and understand if a person will when everyone I was talking to how this would impact them and how their skills will be used in another places and ways. And it just getting beyond the whole (19:03 inaudible) and having human conversations and human interactions and taken off the blinders if you will and looking people in the eye and having emotional intelligence. That’s where I grieve the most beside understanding self-awareness it isn’t about me it’s about them, so how do I put myself in that point.

Jim Rembach:   I think you bring up an interesting point because I know for me I haven’t had those conversations before knowing that I was probably one of those that was going to be affected as well.  When you start thinking about making that separation and also deviating from the script in order to get real inhuman, how do you know when to do that? 

Keith Pearce:   I think for me it was just framed around what do people really want to do? It’s interesting people will follow patterns. We look up something tragic happens, a job lost is a tragic event it was like a death. Having a conversation around—is this what you decide yourself to do when you’re growing up? Is this what you really want to do? It’s interesting because you have some transform analysis of people where they realize, you know what I’ve got no (20:19 inaudible) I got no pattern the passions not there never really was it was there and it’s gone. So where is the passion? In all of those things that made people feel fulfilled and happy and gratified I found a line to what their passionate about doing. Sometimes you can make it really good living like that or sometimes you have to make a lifestyle change those are some of the conversations that I went through. And probably some of the proudest things that I’ve done because humans and the people’s reaction always been where I—is most passionate about as far right now in this industry is observe people not observe machine or computer. When you can be instrumental on how can somebody find that true and event that maybe didn’t plan for and then you can see them just grow and foster and (21:11 inaudible) that’s great and got a lot of pride (21:15 inaudible) 

Jim Rembach:   For me as a parent of three kids I can also connect that to home as well. I like to see that type of growth and people spread their wings and being able to exceed their own expectation and help them do that and find myself doing the same thing for my kids. So when you start looking at all of the things that you have on your plate, of course make sure that this brand as far as the service cloud get its identity that you’re trying to get it to have, and them also family, you got the boys, wife, I know you have to travel in ton trying do what you’re doing, what’s one of your goals? 

Keith Pearce:   My primary goal is to be a good father, be a good son, be a good husband and a brother because I have brother and sister and uncle and try to live my life as a model to the people that need me for support. Everyone has different stage in life where they’re dealing with different things. By now I’m dealing with my parents getting elderly. All our lives they’ve been who we turn to where this people that are in my age back in—probably right there, that they were your support and it’s an interesting thing and that changes in you become support to them. So that’s one of my goals, how do I do that and maintain the balance I need to give the most to my immediate family as well and to my job as well. Well as everyone is here my wife and my family it’s not a long time been it’s patterned how we work and how to be a useful person. 

Jim Rembach:   And the And the Fast Leader legion wishes you the very best. Now let’s hear a quick word from our sponsor: 

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Alright here we go Fast Leader legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Keith, our Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to move us onward and upward faster. Keith Peirce, are you ready to hoedown? 

 

Keith Pearce:   Let’s do it. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Alright. What do think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Keith Pearce:   More self-awareness.

 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? 

 

Keith Pearce:   Work hard. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success? 

Keith Pearce:   Also work hard. 

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Keith Pearce:   Listening. 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book, and it would be from any genre that you’d recommend to our legion?

Keith Pearce:   Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin.

 

Jim Rembach:  Okay, Fast Leader listeners you could find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Keith Pearce. Okay, Keith, this is my last hump day hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Keith Pearce:   I think it would be learning to listen instead of waiting to talk and learning to understand the point of view before we express our own.

 

Jim Rembach:   Why, why did you learn that one? 

 

Keith Pearce:   I think when you’re at that age you think you got it all figured out. I’ve got kids, believe me, it’s not just 25, one who’s 16 he said he had all figured it out and we’re all the same way when we were that age. But the irony is you get closer to having it figure it out by taking someone else’s perspective and letting them from your own. That was the book that I’ve read, Team of Rivals with Abraham Lincoln’s cabinet. Can you imagine today the President’s cabinet are diverse? And I mean diverse in the  sense that we think about today but in terms of party affiliation, religious beliefs I can go on and on completely mix that and everyone said you’re crazy. But the genius of Lincoln was he said, I could take something from each one of you and (25:51 inaudible) in context that’s so warm, can you imagine? So that for me is—the more experience I get and the older I get the more I realize everyone has something they do better than you. And the more you can cut if off (26:48 inaudible) in the more trouble you’re in.  

 

Jim Rembach:  Keith, it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you?

 

Keith Pearce:   Sure, they can connect with me on LinkedIn, Keith Pearce, Twitter@pistolprce

 

Jim Rembach:  Keith Pearce, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the fast leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

 

END OF AUDIO