Paul Larsen

096: Paul Larsen: I became very alone overnight

 Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience, break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

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Jim Rembach:     Okay, Fast Leader Legion today I’m excited to have the guest that we have on the show today because he has a system that I think can help us all. Paul Larsen flew in to his northern California home in the early 60’s being raised in the Bay Area communities of Hayward and Livermore. The youngest of four spirited children Paul’s the son of an airline pilot and a very creative homemaker and talented artist. Instilled that an early age to the value of education and learning, Paul consistently found himself in teacher roles no matter if his job was flipping hamburgers, selling shoes or bagging groceries. If seeing that friends, family, colleagues and strangers always sought him out for advice, counsel and coaching. It was this intuitive talent that led Paul to his various successful corporate roles such as leading human resources and learning and development for teens at Charles Schwab, Bristol-Myers Squibb, and Adobe Technologies. 

However it was not until later in life in 2009 that Paul truly found his voice on a warm day in June. Paul was sitting on a church pew with the sun streaming through the stained-glass windows he was listening intently to people as they each extolled virtues of a man that had recently passed away, that man was Paul’s father. Alf N. Larsen Jr. each person got up to the microphone and talked about the positive impact that Alf had in their life as a colleague, friend, family member and Army Air Corps, fighter pilot of World War II. It was during this lab test that Paul had one of his biggest epiphanies of his life. What will people be staying at my memorial service? What will my legacy be? What impact do I have on other people, my communities & the world? What impact do I want to have? Calling this his final mentoring moment from his father, Paul set out to find his true voice and realize the potential he knew was still hiding within him. 

Saying goodbye to the traditional corporate roles, Paul created his core message around find your voice as a leader by discovering your values, creating your outcomes, exercising your influence, demonstrating your courage in community and communicating your overall expression for positive impact, This is what his parents had always modeled he was putting it into practice to share with the world. Paul now works at his true calling as an established executive coach helping leaders find their voice and is the author of the book “Find Your Voice as a Leader.” 

When not traveling the globe he lives in San Francisco, California with his partner of 25 years Steve and relishes his relationships with his seven nieces and nephews and his 25 great-nieces and nephews. While always living by his motto, Life is too short not to find your voice, so what are you waiting for, Paul Larson are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Paul Larsen:  I am ready Jim to help us all get over the hump. 

Jim Rembach:     I appreciate that. So, I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion so that we can get to know you even better. 

Paul Larsen:  Yeah. My current passion is working with leaders in any capacity in life. You don’t have to have the title to be a leader. So get out and lead, find your true calling, find your voice, take a stand as you just so eloquently put in terms of my story, life is too short for us not to find our voice, so get out and lead and that’s really what I work on.  My experience has been in the corporate world so I really work in leaders because a lot of times corporations do a job of trying to stifle creativity, stifled communication and they do that because of the bureaucracy, because of momentum they need to have around their business but what it does is creates leaders who are all the same, who norm all the same. And what I want to do is I work with leaders individually so they create their unique voice, that unique value, that unique set of DNA to make them stand up and have an impact for the people in their community. 

Jim Rembach:     I appreciate your energy and your passion for this because definitely contagious and for me I want to get on the edge of my seat. Now, we had the opportunity to talk earlier and there’s several things that stood out to me and there’s a couple that I’d like to focus on. You had said that the reality is for all of us is that our legacy is currently being authored. And if we stop and think about the author of our own legacy, who is it really? 

Paul Larsen:  You know Jim that’s correct. Conventional wisdom would say that the author of our legacy is someone else. If you look at folks and you look at leaders and you look at people in the community many times the legacy is being written by people other than the individual. When I work with leaders one of the very first questions I asked, I’ll always ask, what’s your legacy? What’s the legacy you’re leaving? And the look I get is beyond that chicken and beef look, or what are you going to have for a drink, it’s like—wooh! I’ve never thought of that. I think my legacy is this. And what I want people to do is really have an anchor, author who they are as a leader, author who you are as a community and not let it be authored by other people. Certainly, in today’s world we live in a society we are bombarded with all the media, we are bombarded with likes and tweets and postings and so forth that can certainly shape people’s viewpoints but you have an absolute accountability to establish who you are especially in a leadership role and especially the impact you want to leave. 

There’s always the old adage I remember when growing up, there’s always an old adage I remember my grandmother and my aunt, who are of course older at that time, reading the obituaries and I’m thinking to myself, why are you reading obituaries it just sounds depressing? It just sound like, gosh! You just want to see who has passed or who dies, but if you really think about it the obituary is an archive record of the legacy of that person. And many times that obituary that is printed online or in the paper is not even written by the individual who it’s about. So I use that as a lesson because it’s not about writing our obituary but it is crafting a legacy because no matter when you’re gone, and when I say gone I don’t necessarily mean gone from the world I mean gone from the meeting, gone from the room, gone from that organization that legacy stays there. So, you better have an accountability, you better take the steps to establish that legacy that you want and author it yourself. 

Jim Rembach:     So many things are running through my head as you shared that, and thank you for doing that, is that even last night when I’m driving home with my 11-year-old son from baseball practice, and one of the things that my wife and I always try to focus on with our children is their effort, and he was not putting together a very good effort last night. And so I asked him the question I said, “What do you want people to think about you when they hear your name?” 

Paul Larsen:  Beautiful.

Jim Rembach:     And he goes, he stop for a moment he goes, “Good.” And I’m like, “What do you mean?” What do you mean by good? You want them to think good, good about what? And so I tried to get him to talk and think about that and then I tied it back around to his behavior. I said, “So, do you think people think good about you when you sat down in that field and didn’t want to participate?” Do you think people felt good about you when everybody else is running and you are dragging your feet? So, when you talk about having people think good about you, what do you have to do in order for that to happen?

Paul Larsen:  Yeah. Jim that is a brilliant example on so many levels. Number one, you touched on the questions that we should always think. You touched on the definitions that go beyond just good, just go beyond to say, “Well, I think I want to be used thought of as good or okay or a nice person, what does that mean? But more brilliantly and what you just described is that it was 11-year-old son that you were talking to and talking with. And if you really think about this, if we took the responsibility in today’s community and we had discussions like that with our children, with our students, with people who are up-and-coming in life, and up-and-coming through our academic process, think the difference that will have long-term I have no doubt, not even knowing your son and knowing the relationship but I have no doubt that will stick with your son and that will carry forward as he progresses to 12, 13, 14 and into later in life and he will remember that and be very deliberate with his actions and that legacy. The brilliancy of that I just applaud you on that. 

Jim Rembach:     I appreciate that and I can tell you it came from a lot of hard knocks and that’s why there’s fall and loss on top of my head and I know that I’ll probably having to have this conversation repeatedly for many years and probably until—maybe I get my I don’t want to say satisfaction because I don’t but when he’s sitting in the pew and the light is shining in his eyes, hopefully he’ll have his moment. Now, one of the things I also too I think is really important because you and I had chat about this a little bit is that, I want him to be able to know and understand his values as he progresses throughout his life. And we talked about that finding your voice in that first step, to me I think is one of the most critical ones is having people to identify their own values.

I was conducting a workshop with about 50 or 60 leaders where we we’re doing some values identification and I asked folks, as we’re like three quarters away through the workshop, I said, how many of you have ever done anything like this before? And maybe three people raised their hands. And the only reason they had done that is because those folks were part of the corporate environment that went through this discovery process. 

Paul Larsen:  Right. Right.

Jim Rembach:     But when you talk about values most people, I don’t think really know what they are. 

Paul Larsen:  Right. You’re absolutely right Jim. And if you really thing about it without really knowing who we are without knowing what our values are, how to we know where we’re going? How do we know the decisions that were making are going to be the best decisions whether it’s for today, next week, next year, for ourselves, our family, our friends, whatever that might be, and really understanding our values, our core DNA that is everything around how we judge, it’s everything around the actions we take, it’s everything around the purpose that we have, it’s how we behave. So to your point around the folks that are really looking at sort of like, (11:28 inaudible) what do I value? One of the first things I ask when I enter into a coaching partnership, certainly, when I ask the user, what do you value? And how do you know you value that? And the reason I ask the second piece which is the kind of the ROI or the return on investment of your values because many times when I ask leaders to your point around the corporate world, I’ll ask leaders like, “What do you value? All of a sudden start to get a list of values that are cock tip on their wall because they’re the corporate values or the corporate mission which are great and those are wonderful and we all have had experience with those and companies need that as a compass but more importantly I want that leader to understand what is their compass. 

So I’ll get that superficial response first, which is, well, I value teamwork, I value open door, I have an open door policy, I value open communication. Like, really? Then why is door close every time I come in here? Why is it when I ask your team members they say you’re completely unapproachable and you’re never available? So the behavior does not match what you’re actually saying. And a lot of times, not all the time, but a lot of times when I dig deeper through discussions, through assessments whatever that might be, truly the values come out, it’s like no I don’t really value that. I actually value a different type of style or I have a different motivation and that’s all good. This is not judgement on what’s a good value and what’s a bad value but leaders in organizations get to a point where they think they need to value X or they need to value Y because if I really value A or B that’s not good for this organization or that’s not good for what people will think of me or like me for. And thus we get wrapped up in that so people just kind up to your point they don’t do the work on values and then they wonder why they’re like a ship that just kind of drifting, kind of rudderless. And then they wake-up seven years later it’s like, “How did I get in this company where I don’t like what I’m doing? How is my life like this? It’s because it didn’t start with that core sets of beliefs and really identifying what those are and then living those out with your behavior, your impact and again it goes back to creating that legacy. 

Jim Rembach:     You know, oftentimes we hear a lot of differences about generations, multiple generations and workforce and we talk about bloomers, Xers,  it just goes on and on and on. However when you start thinking about values a lot of times value seemed to be something that’s inherited and passed throughout family generations and things along those lines. When you start talking about values and working with different folks, what do you see are some of the interesting dynamics of it?

Paul Larsen:  I work with millennials, I work with the Gen Y’s, I work with the Gen X’s, I work with the Baby boomers and to be honest with you sometimes I’m so confused I don’t even know what’s what except what you said was key. Many times when I’m working with let’s say, let’s take the millennials who had come up and they certainly have a brand, right? We hear that all the time that’s the workforce of the hour right now. How do you manage millennials? And how do engage millennials and all that stuff? But they actually come up, and I think it’s because of just the communities had been raised in the parents and or the mentors or the guides they’ve had, they come up with the true set of who they are and what their values are. And many times those values that the millennials are espousing, of course not everybody, but many of them in leadership positions are contrary to the values of let’s say the Gen Xer’s or the baby boomers or the older generations of which, by the way I’m part of so I own that, and hence we get all this kind of contradiction or we get this gaps that come in around—the millennials are XYZ because they don’t share XYABC over here, in other words, the values are in contradiction when in fact the values are just different and the values are identified early on.   

The Gen Xer’s have certainly have a value of working hard and really being committed and persevering. The millennials have a value of really looking at where can I do the best work? What does that look like? And if I’m not doing engagement here, I’m not making an impact I’m going to go somewhere else, so they get the reputation of they’re just flighty, they cross over, they go from company to company when in fact, when they’re at those organizations they’re working as hard, at least my experience has been, they’re working as hard as the Gen Xer’s. And this isn’t about one generation is better than the other but there are certainly brands and there are certainly value judgements that are made because of the way that they live and the way that that behavior then is espouse by the values. And I think if you really think about today’s work and you think about where we are as a society, where we are as a community, our global community, those of us in the United States values are at the forefront of all conversations. But yet even though they’re at the forefront of all conversations and they drive conversations, do we really know what our values are?

Jim Rembach:     Is there a quote or two that kind of stands out for you that you can share?

Paul Larsen:  Yeah, there’s one I have Jim, I use it. It’s not as probably eloquent as a lot of other quotes that we see now all over social media that come out. And especially in today’s climate in our society, the political climate as well, and it’s about, “Hey leader it’s not about like ability, it’s about.” Find your voice, get out and lead or get out of the way. There are enough leaders in today’s world that will hide in the shadows or hide at the coattails of someone else, it’s like then get out of my way I’ve got better things to do, I want to get out and lead and make a difference. I would much rather have in my career and I think about all the leaders I’ve interacted with both from a team member, both as a peer, and certainly now as a coach, I would much rather have a leader in front of me who I may not agree with but I certainly understand where they’re coming from. I certainly understand their opinions. I certainly understand their decisions they make their values. I may not agree with them at all and I may even judge that, that’s okay, I know where they coming from versus somebody who sits there and shakes their head and does the bubble head leadership and you never know what they’re thinking, you never know what their thoughts are, you never know what their decisions will be until they zing you and they zing you in a way that it would be a blind site. And we have so much of that in today’s world where people are for whatever reasons resistant, hesitant, afraid, intimidated to actually speak up and really take a stand  especially as a leader.

Jim Rembach:     That’s true and I don’t know what’s it’s going to take in order to get over fear, I mean really then, just individuals doing it. And it comes back to—you had mentioned about the epiphany that you had sitting in the church pew and to get to that point, to get past that point, to do all of these things, to stand up, to find your voice, you have to get over a lot of humps to do that, that’s for sure. Is there a time that you’ve had to get over the hump but it helped you find your voice that you can share?

Paul Larsen:  In my very, very first job as a manager. I was promoted into a manager role and I’ve got to tell you—it was a software company it was it was decades ago, and when I got that promotion I wasn’t even up for the promotion. I was just kind of cap on the shoulder, so man, my ego just went—my head must have been like big head, it was just expanded. And I’m sitting there like, wow! I’m going to be a manager and going to have 15 people,  nowadays I would probably run screaming with 15 people without any kind of leadership strength or bench strength or succession management but at that time it was like, 15 people and of course where did I go? Right to power? Right to ego? Right to all those things you’re not supposed to go but will make your head implode. 

But where I went also was that popularity piece, so, this was really key for me, Jim this was such an “aha” moment. It was a software company we’re in a big business park I got a nice big office, I was like, Wow! Look at the size of this table, how many chairs I get, look at all these stuff. All of a sudden now I was really alone. I became very alone over night because all of a sudden with the ego, the power trip, the whole bit—I was not a great popular or influential manager. I became the manager of my peers and who I thought were my friends and overnight I became absolutely a pariah. I became that pariah leader, that pariah manager, like, what happened to Paul? And I was looking at myself like, I haven’t changed. I haven’t done anything different, I’m not manager I can control this, I control your work. So, I remember it was a Thursday night, and to this day, it was a Thursday night, it was 6:30, I was in the office the light were kind of dim and it was raining outside and the whole group of folks that I’d managed, again this 15 folks I been pretty close to, had all gone out for dinner for a birthday party and I was not invited. And I sat there feeling sorry for myself in that little office as it got progressively darker outside and I sat there just like the victim. And I remember just sitting there thinking, “Oh, woe was me, just woe, woe, woe was me and I am like, what happened? And then in an instant I’m sitting there like, what’s going on? Who is this? Who is this person sitting in this chair thinking this? Cause I’d always been, sort of like somebody that was always looking for kind of the next, next and kind of growing, and kind of like –looking the kind of like expand sort of my skills and comfort zone and everything my parents had done such a wonderful job with me. And I’m sitting there feeling so sorry for myself and I’m like, this is not who I am. 

Now, at that time, to be honest with you, I would love to say I have the strategy and the force out to like, oh! I want to build my legacy. I’d (21:57 inaudible)get through Friday, which was the next day but I said I got to change, I have to change something. I’ve got to change my mindset if I want to be successful in this role I’ve got to change my thinking. And I went right outside and my boss’s door was open, she was still in and I said, “Hey, can I grab a minute with you?” and I said, “I don’t know what to do.” And right there in that moment I kind of show he vulnerability if you will and I kind of open myself up which up to that point do not happen. And she says, “Yes” she goes, “I was kind of wondering how long did it was going to take for you to come in here? And I said, “You—what do you mean?” she said “Your struggling” and she goes, “They don’t want anything to do with you? And you are creating, you’re just digging a hole” and she goes, “I was just kind of wondering at some point, I knew something would hit you and I was wondering if today would be that day given what was going on.” Cause she knew as well we weren’t that huge of a company and sure enough she goes, “as soon as you became manager, you became the topic of dinner conversation at their tables every night, you became the manager. You took on a different role that Paul the friend, Paul the fun guy, Paul the humorous, Paul the nice colleague, you became the manager and that build something very, very, different. This is before we—again this is early 90’s, it was way before we talk about brand as a leader and all those things, but they’re definitely that was such a moment for me, Jim in terms of like, what do I do? And she goes, “You can figure it out.” She goes, “I want you to go back and fix it, and I’m not going to tell you.” She was a great coach and again it was an introduction it was like, “figure some staff out because you got it in you because I’ve seen it that’s why you’re in the role you’re at. And you have to kind of go through this to come out on the other side otherwise I’m just telling you and you’re not going to learn anything.” And of course, it was a struggle it took some time and then I had to really kind of very purposeful with what I wanted out of my role as a manager and the impact I wanted to have with this folks. I’m not by any stretch of imagination, I’m not going to say things changed overnight, I’m not going to say, “Oh, I just became this—I still had the triggers in my mind as we do as folks. As Marshall Goldsmith love to say, “What are your triggers? What triggers you?” 

And at that time I had a lot of triggers they’re going off all the time. But I took the time, I was very methodical I built new relationships with these colleagues I had one by one. And they were new relationships because I was in a new role. And that was such an epiphany for me to say, “Wow! This is so different, I’m not going to say that it was something I necessarily just engendered with or was happy about because it really foster a lot of hard work but that became the core and foundation of who I am today.

Jim Rembach:     Thanks for sharing that story. The advice that she gave, well, that is the coach response is still painful because you’re looking for answers. 

Paul Larsen:  You have no idea. I didn’t walk out of there kind of kicking out and walking lighter, I walk out of there like, Wow! Now what? But it was a food for thought and it was just that little spark of awareness that we all look for, right? And sometimes we get in so many aspects in our life. Like maybe your 11-year-old son got when you ask what’s good, definite good.  It’s that little spark of awareness that came up that I didn’t drill deeper on. And you’re absolutely right, I was sitting there like, why are you not given me a checklist of what I should be doing? Why are you not doing that right now? And what it also then taught for me was, “Oh, that’s how I want to be as a manager.” So, I don’t want to necessarily always direct people. You know, situation as we all know, there’s different situational leadership scenarios but that’s what I wanted to subscribe to be at some point. So, yeah, it was a great, very visceral reaction.

Jim Rembach:     So I know you got a lot of things going on, the release of your book. But what are some of your goals?

Paul Larsen:  One of my goals—it’s always been—I think I’ve always been somebody who has really prided himself on being a multitasker. The more I can multitask, the more successful I am. So, all the roles I had in the corporate world, I can do this, this, I can be a generalist, I can be specialist, I can be generalist and specialist in the same minute. I can do everything and I do it really, really good. And so I really, really work hard, Jim on multitasking. And you look at today’s world now, we live in a multitasking environment we have so many ways to multitask. So, I have now flip that, I have become so much more deliberate with my actions, with my thoughts, with my purpose, and with my message that even when I had the epiphany in my mentoring moment with my dad about six years ago, seven years ago, I still approached it from my multitasking environment. I can now like, okay, I’m going to do coaching, I’m going to this, this, I’m going to touch everybody, it’s like—I have now funneled it down, I take deep breaths, I create a mindset in myself where it’s like I want to be much more deliberate with everything that I do so that I have that maximum impact that I want that I desire. Because for me the multitasking is not a success ratio anymore. It really is being very deliberate with my message hence the first outcome of that, in which I’m celebrating and I so appreciate this ability to engage with you, is the book. It really forced me to just say I have a message, I have craft, I have something I want to share, may not agree with everybody people may not like it that’s okay I have something I want to share that was my first step in being very deliberate and committed. So that’s actually what I’m working on.

Jim Rembach:     And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. 

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Jim Rembach:     Alright Fast Leader Legion, now it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Paul, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us onward and upward faster. Paul Larsen are you ready to hoedown?

Paul Larsen:  Absolutely. I am ready to hoedown. 

Jim Rembach:     Alright. So, what do you think is holding you back from being even better leader today?

Paul Larsen:  Jumping to a conclusions too fast.

Jim Rembach:     What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Paul Larsen:  Hire smart people and then get out of their way.

Jim Rembach:     What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Paul Larsen:  Stepping out of my comfort zone on a continual basis.

Jim Rembach:     What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Paul Larsen:  An egg timer. 

Jim Rembach:     What would be one book, and it could be from any genre, that you’d recommend to our legion? 

Paul Larsen:  Absolutely, Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin.

Jim Rembach:     Okay Fast Leader listeners, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today show by going to fastleader.net/Paul Larsen. Okay, Paul this my last something about question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything you can only choose one, so what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

Paul Larsen:  Absolutely. I can even remember 25, but if I went back to 25, Jim, it would be ability to be self-aware. The ability to be self-aware because that starts everything. That ability to have that self-awareness establishes who you are, establishes that ability to self-monitor and self-regulate. Establishes the ability to deal with any type of environment. So that one skill, that one attribute to be able to be self-aware would be absolutely, especially, taking that back to my aged of 25 I would take that in a heartbeat.

Jim Rembach:     Paul it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Paul Larsen:  Absolutely, Jim. I’ve got a website at www.paulnlarsen.com

Jim Rembach:     Paul Larsen, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

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