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Ryan Gottfredson | Successful Mindsets

265: Ryan Gottfredson: I shifted from my negative mindsets

Ryan Gottfredson Show Notes Page Ryan Gottfredson came to appreciate his deep learning about mindsets because it’s much more fulfilling and rewarding than learning about them due to being in crisis. Now he’s spreading the word about mindsets to help enlighten others. Ryan was raised in North Ogden, Utah, nestled on the bench of one …

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Mary Lippitt | Situational Mindsets

253: Mary Lippitt: Target what matters when it matters

Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early years were spent in New Haven, CT; Lincoln, NE; Schenectady NY; Arlington VA; Paris, France; and Bethesda MD.  As the daughter of a minister, she moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed.

As an adult, Mary has lived in Buffalo, NY, Bartlesville, OK, Miami Fl, Bethesda MD (again), and now in Tampa Bay, Fl. And over the years, she worked for county government, an international electronics firm, and as director of a university’s master of human resources program.

These divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way we develop our leaders. We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual; their personal style, traits, and competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked.  Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues.  In Mary’s book, Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When It Matters, she offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration, that produce results.

Mary founded Enterprise Management Limited in 1984 and has served public, private, and non-profit clients interested in boosting critical thinking, the bottom line, and engagement. In the US, she has partnered with Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, SAIC, the US Department of Energy, and the US Marine Corps.  She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France, and Kuwait.

The role Mary enjoys the most is being a grandmother to her two grandsons, and she apologies to her daughter for making this statement. But grandparenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent.

Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her many travel adventures.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @marylippitt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet 

“You could deliver results and still care about people.” Click to Tweet 

“Kindness and results are not exclusive to each other; you could do both.” Click to Tweet  

“The success rate of change is dismal because the change agents don’t listen.” Click to Tweet  

“A mindset is a temporary point of view; it is not genetic or a personal style.” Click to Tweet  

“When I focus, I can achieve something.” Click to Tweet  

“If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions.” Click to Tweet  

“Change is probable, pervasive, problematic, and promising.” Click to Tweet  

“Change is where we’re going to have new opportunities, but we may not like the process of having to go through that change.” Click to Tweet  

“By the time I’m being forced I have fewer options. As long as I’m proactive I have more to choose from.” Click to Tweet  

“Leadership today is about asking the right questions, it’s not about having all the right answers.” Click to Tweet  

“No one has all the right answers, the world is too complex.” Click to Tweet  

“The focal point is important because that creates the common ground.” Click to Tweet  

“I realized, when you think differently from me you help me.” Click to Tweet  

“Instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, what can I learn.” Click to Tweet  

“I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realize no one does.” Click to Tweet  

“Our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow.” Click to Tweet  

Hump to Get Over

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Advice for others

Learn to be able to say you do not know.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

I like to follow new ideas that sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goals.

Best Leadership Advice

Listen, persevere, and respect others.

Secret to Success

I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions.

Best tools in business or life

I use a situational mindset checklist.

Recommended Reading

Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When it Matters

Thinking, Fast and Slow

The Art Of War

Contacting Mary Lippitt

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marylippitt/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/marylippitt

Website: https://enterprisemgt.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

253 Mary Lippitt episode

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have somebody on the show who is really going to give us some greater understandings and frameworks on how to be significantly more effective. Dr Mary lipids early years were spent in new Haven, Connecticut, Lincoln, Nebraska, Schenectady, New York, Arlington, Virginia, Paris, France in Bethesda, Maryland as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

nd as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:07)

We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual, their personal style or their traits and their competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked. Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues in Mary’s book, situational mindsets targeting what matters when it matters. She offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration that produces results. Mary founded enterprise management limited in 1984 and has served public, private and nonprofit clients interested in boosting critical thinking and bottom line and engagement in the U S she has partnered with bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, S a I see the us department of energy and the U S Marine Corps. She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France and Kuwait. The role Mary enjoys the most is bringing a grandmother to her grandsons and she apologizes to her daughter for making the statement, but grand Parenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent. Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her travel excursions, Mary lipid. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? Thank you. I’m really glad you’re here and I’m really excited to talk about this particular topic. But I think before we get into that, I think it’s extremely important for you to explain who is Kate Hollander?

 

Mary Lippitt: (02:33)

Kate Hollander is the new head of sales at a printing company in Denver. And she walks into a situation where her staff really would prefer that she would not be there because they would wanted her job. The sales are declining rapidly. There are silos between the organizations in the, uh, between, uh, sales production and she, the owner is a micromanager. So she has a lot or plate from the get go. And the story talks about how she’s resolves this by delivering results, but also at the same time by making sure that people are engaged and respect it. What I’m trying to show in this story of Kate is that you could deliver results and still care about people. You know, kindness and results are not exclusive to each other. You can do both. And that this is what Kate shows people how to deliver results, but to work well together

 

Jim Rembach: (03:38)

well, and to give this even more justice. What you did is really set a very important setting and how Kate actually goes about her work when you talk about her being a medic. So if you could explain that a little bit, I think that’s a really good foundational elements to kind of help give people some understanding and context when we get into this discussion about these situational mindsets.

 

Mary Lippitt: (04:02)

Okay. Kate had been in sales before for a medical device manufacturer, but after nine 11, she chose to serve in the military and serve as a medic. So she’s coming off of tours in the middle East and she’s accepted a job in an industry that she is not familiar with. And so she knows about sales, but her recent experience is really in middle East and being a medic rather than a sales person. So there’s a lot of discounting her, uh, stereotypes about, you know, what can she do for us and you know, she’s younger than we are and all sorts of other aspects. Cloud, uh, the initial impression of her, uh, what really happens is that there is actually the restaurant next to her, the printing business, there’s an explosion. And then they see her in action and they realize a couple of things. Not only is she very decisive, but she also, no one knows when to step back.

 

Mary Lippitt: (05:08)

She handles the triage effectively. She directs people clearly and with respect, no panic. But when the emergency medical people arrive, she knows to step back. So this is not someone who is really out to, to, to, to look like on the hero. Uh, she works well with others and people realize, well she goes have some skills, maybe she doesn’t know a lot about printing yet. And the, she has to balance a reality that the owner of the business is pushing her go, go, go, go. And she recognizes that the sales have been going down for a while. So it isn’t just a motivational thing. There really are some other aspects. So she uses her honeymoon period just to sit back and do some analysis of what it is that’s really happening. And in that process she recognizes that, that her staff is using a transactional approach, just get the sale and move on.

 

Mary Lippitt: (06:11)

And she knows that customer service, uh, as you would know, well, requires a lot more than that. And she talks to the team and helps them come up with a ability to tailor their interactions with their potential clients to make sure that they have a solid sale and one that survives the actual first, um, order to deliver additional orders. And, and this is really resisted at first because after all, she doesn’t know the printing business and, you know, why should we change? We would be doing it this way for so long. And so she actually takes a step back and instead of trying to, um, demand, um, compliance, she actually works with her staff. She goes on sales calls with them, she doesn’t try to upstage them and she shows very early, they sh that she is trying to help them because she’s identified what their major problems are within the organization and she tackles those right away to gain some early wins to build the confidence that she really is going to be someone that helps them.

 

Mary Lippitt: (07:21)

So there’s a lot going on that she’s trying to juggle. And I should mention that she got this job because the vice-president charge of operations for title’s vice president of sales was someone she worked with in the military. So he was her advocate and the owner was a little reluctant to hire. She didn’t have the Printy experience. And again, he was hit the deck running nose down to the grindstone kind of guy. And, and so this, um, strong recommendation is, is the reason that she got the job, but the welcome was a little bit lukewarm.

 

Jim Rembach: (07:56)

Well, but you also talk about that and everything that you described there and the competing forces associated with this. So there’s, you know, the situations of threat from outside, um, you know, all the marketplace, you know, pressures, you talk about the internal culture, uh, you talk about, you know, uh, people trying to silo, you know, uh, protect, I mean, all of these different factors that I think everybody can relate to in so many different ways. And, and so then you start explaining this whole really how you navigate all of this and how Kate navigates all this. And that is in the situational mindset model. So if you could talk about the, the six components or elements of the situational mindset model because of if you just take them by word, um, you could potentially be misled and I think you need to explain them a little bit.

 

Mary Lippitt: (08:43)

Okay. There, there are six mindsets. Let me just preface my comments by people say, Oh, there’s gotta be more than that. I will remind people that there are three primary colors and we get lots cubes. There are seven musical notes, so we get lots of melodies. So having six is not as outrageous as it may seem. So let me identify the six. The first is I call inventing. It is a focus on what are the new products we should consider, uh, what are the new technologies that we can apply? What are the synergies that we can create internally or externally? So this is a focus on making sure that you are offering the products that are state of the art. And we do know that, you know, certain companies really go out of their way to make sure that they are state of the art, you know, whether it’s an Apple or or whatever organization it is.

 

Mary Lippitt: (09:38)

Having that reputation really is a discriminating factor for many customers. So that’s the first one. The second one is very customer oriented, calling it the catalyzing mindset. And in this mindset we’re looking at who our key customers, how can we increase our customer base, how can retain our customers, how can we provide them with customer service? What are the emerging customer needs? So both the first two are very external to the organization. They’re looking at technology and new ideas. They’re looking at the customer, which is obviously external. And those are really what I would call the entrepreneurial stages, the small business getting started. And then there’s a shift from the external point of view to looking at the organization. And I know you’re very familiar with the fact that organizations can grow rapidly, but sometimes there’s a lot of chaos in that growth. And so the third mindset is called the developing mindset.

 

Mary Lippitt: (10:41)

And it takes a look at how should we be organized? Should we be functional matrix, geographic product, whatever. But it’s also establishing, you know, what are our policies? What’s our pay policy, what’s our, uh, our policy on promotions. It’s taking a look at what are the systems that we need? How is information going to flow? What are the decision making practices we have? So it’s what I’ll call a macro orientation to how we function. And this is the orientation that says let’s take a look at our goals and make sure that we’re doing the right thing rather than just doing things right. So that’s the third one. The fourth one is also internal look, but it’s more of a micro look. Then the infrastructure develop a mindset. We call that the performing mindset. And in this mindset, what we take a look at are things like process improvement, a quality improvement, workflow analysis, facility layout improvement, um, return on investment, meeting the budget, uh, vendor management, supply chain management, all of the, the, the adjustments, the tweaking, the polishing of a work flow.

 

Mary Lippitt: (11:57)

And of course, you know, that is where we get the efficiency. So this is a very efficiency but quality oriented mindset. So the, the fifth mindset is still internal, but it’s taking look at the people is taking a look. What is a talent we have? Do they have the right competencies? How do we retain them? Do we have good collaboration? Do we have engagement? Do we have a succession plan? Do we have an agile culture? Are we change ready? Uh, are we proud of ourselves or do we set, have a sense of commitment and loyalty. All of the without broadly call the people and culture aspects. And, and again, some people tend to discount this area and I would just like to remind people that Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So this although may not have the pazazz of a customer sale, uh, if you don’t keep your sales people, if you don’t have the right compensation system for them, if they’re not proud of your product, they will stay with you.

 

Mary Lippitt: (13:03)

And you call that the protecting mindset. Why protecting? Because it’s protecting what we’ve achieved in terms of our product, our customers, our infrastructure and our processes. So it’s protecting all that we’ve built so far. And this is a very proud, you know, stage. And in that every one of these stages has many advantages, but many also disadvantages. And what can happen with protecting is that I’m so proud of what I’ve got. I won’t change. You know, we’ve, we’ve perfected everything, don’t mess with success. And the sixth and final mindset is taking a look at the trends that we need to adjust to. It’s called the challenging mindset because it’s challenging what we’ve already established. And this is taking a look at new initiatives, new business opportunities that we may have. It takes a look at maybe new business models. And again, just talking about the printing industry for a second.

 

Mary Lippitt: (14:04)

You know, there was a time when people would say, no one, no one will ever buy a book without being able to go to a store, open the book and look at, you know, but nobody will buy the book. Um, and I will say that Amazon has such, uh, show them how false that assumption was. So the challenging mindset looks at business models changing the strategy, adapting the strategy. It also takes a look at what of some potential new partnerships that we should go after. What are the kinds of alliances we should make? You know, it’s taking a look at positioning the organization for the future. There’s a lovely quote from Mark Twain that, you know, if you’re on the right track, that’s great, but you just stay there, you’re going to get run over. And the challenging mindset is going to tell you this is, you know, an opportunity to continue to grow.

 

Mary Lippitt: (14:56)

We don’t have to throw the baby out with the bath water. What we really can do is take what we’ve done well expanded, prepare us. We have to be an organization that sustains itself. So those are the six. And again, three of them are internally focused. The developing, the performing and the protecting. And three of them are really externally focused. The challenging, which is looking at the trends, you know, what does the demographic difference mean for us? Uh, what does it mean? You know, that the interest rates are lower than we had anticipated. All those things have to be considered. So the challenging, the inventing and the catalyzing mindset look more externally. And what’s really interesting is most change agents are looking at challenging, inventing and catalyzing. And we know that the success rate of change is dismal. And that’s because the change agents get so excited about their idea that they don’t listen to the other mindsets that people have. And again, a mindset is a temporary point of view. It is not genetic, it is not a personal style. It say I’m going to do what I think is most important. And um, historically we had something called faster, cheaper and better and we would say, you know, do it faster and then it will obviously be cheaper. No, not necessarily. So this framework in the largest, that faster, cheaper, better into a more comprehensive analysis.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:25)

No, but I think you bring up a really interesting point, right? So it’s, I have these six elements and as you were explaining them, I started thinking about all these different subsets. So I’m like, okay, I’m an organization and it was all as you, if you, if you still even thinking about that from a champion perspective, they can’t focus on everything. It’s just not possible. The whole, you know, multitasking myth is, is quite true. While we have to do a lot of things, uh, it doesn’t mean that we can focus on a lot of things. So when you start talking about choosing and choosing, which mindset, how do you go about doing that?

 

Mary Lippitt: (16:57)

Well, the first thing is you have to do a comprehensive analysis of your situation. And the term, the title of the book is talking about mindset, which is a present orientation. What’s, what am I facing now? But instead of having it be your mindset about myself and my own capabilities, it’s doing an awareness of the actual situation that I’m confronting. And so I would love to do six things simultaneously, but, but I know that I can’t text and drive, so I have to become aware of my limitations. And that’s not a bad thing because when I focus, I can achieve something. If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions. I haven’t really analyzed everything and I’ll come across as someone who is a chameleon. First she wants this, then she wants that kind of thing. So we have to make choices.

 

Mary Lippitt: (17:50)

But those choices are not permanent. I think people resisted a choice because they thought, okay, this is gonna be a five year plan or a 10 year plan and what we have now is the speed of change is coming so fast that we could do one priority to time complete it and move on to another. There was a lovely story about the fact that if you’re driving a car, you adjust your position, your hands, your eyes, every nine seconds and you know, this is the rate of change and change is probable, pervasive, problematic and promising. So you know, the change is where we’re going to have new opportunities that we may not like the process of having to go through that change, but we’re going to have to to be successful.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:40)

Well, and I think as you said that there’s one thing for me that I think is kind of stands out as that I would rather be proactive and rather it be voluntary than be forced.

 

Mary Lippitt: (18:49)

Yes. Because by the time I’m being forced, I have fewer options as long as I’m proactive, I have more to choose from.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:57)

Yeah. That’s funny that you say that. My daughter right now is a, uh, in high school and she’s a junior and I’m like, you need to start looking at schools. I said, because if you don’t do that, because she’s also an athlete, I said, you know, you have to start creating relationships that you surely should have already been building. If you want a roster spot, you know that it’s all about relationships these days. I mean, they, yes, they look at the athleticism and you know, athletic abilities, but they also want to make sure they’re finding the right cultural fit. It’s become so darn important. You’re, you’re going to be left with whatever the scraps are if you don’t get moving.

 

Mary Lippitt: (19:31)

And one of the things she should be considering is getting tapes of her in action. I mean, there are things that she could do now to help her, you know, identify the coaches that she might want to send information to, you know, and maybe even look at those where she can get on the roster and maybe also look at those where she could get a scholarship. So, I mean it looks like it’s far off to just somebody, but, but there are things we can do now to position ourselves well for the future.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:58)

That’s right. And that’s just exactly what we’re talking about as far as, you know, really being able to, okay, now I understand this framework, uh, and then I need to go about the choosing process, but I need to master this. I mean, because I need to be proactive with it. I cannot be reactive. I’m going to lose choices and options. I’m going to be the one being disrupted instead of being the disruptor. And so I have to master it. So now it’s a master. You talk about really two key key elements. There’s probably more if they are, please explain them. But you talk about focal points and guiding questions. Explain them.

 

Mary Lippitt: (20:30)

Well, I think I w w I would say is the guided questions are helping us identify all the information first. Because what happens is the, sometimes we have an idea but we don’t really test it out. Is this really the best option I have? So the questions become a checklist to make sure I’ve collected the data from everyone. And again, one of my assumptions is that leadership today is about asking the right questions. It’s not about having all the right answers cause no one has all the right answers. The world is too complex. So getting the questions surfaces the data so then I can evaluate it and set my priority or the focal point. But then I can also communicate that focal point by explaining exactly why this is the most important thing to tackle at this point in time.

 

Jim Rembach: (21:21)

Well I think the importance here too is that, okay, so I need to learn this framework. I need to have stir start working on mastering this framework because I do have to decide faster and I can’t just decide based off of what I’ve known or even what others are doing. Because if I look at these situations, um, there, there’s that unique DNA that starts actually revealing itself and that’s what I have to work with.

 

Mary Lippitt: (21:45)

Correct. I think the only thing I would say is that the, I have to keep reminding people that a mindset is a very temporary thing. So just to say it, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s fun following what the current priority or issue is, but it isn’t a permanent label of what I will always choose. Uh, you mentioned that I lived in Buffalo, New York and it’s in a, in a hurricane over in Florida or blizzard in Buffalo, New York. You don’t care what the background, whether somebody graduated from, uh, you know, in engineering or someone graduated in art. If they can help you get out of the storm, you say, thank you. So the focal point is important because that creates the common ground that creates the teamwork that makes things happen. And it could be a very temporary thing. I mean I can, if I’m in a blizzard and I, I can’t even open my car door cause it’s frozen and somebody tells me how to do it, you know, I’m thankful but I’ve learned it, I’ll move on. So I’m talking about a mindset is a very, very temporary assessment of what is most important to do. But that temporary assessment is going to help me set the priority, which means I can focus and achieve the results.

 

Jim Rembach: (23:05)

Yeah. We have to have that built in agility. Right. Okay. So you all off, you know, through our, our discussion here, um, used many different co quotes and those are absolutely focal points. You know, they point us in the right direction and we really, you know, look at those on the fast leader show and share them a lot. So is there one or two they’re all riddled throughout your book? You’ve mentioned a few, but it’s are kind of one or two that stand out for you as focal points.

 

Mary Lippitt: (23:31)

Well, I think there’s one from Ben Franklin. I like that. Just something like, Oh, if you stop, if you don’t think creatively you, it’s like giving up your, your, your future, your life. I it thinking is critical to our life and it gets a bad name, particularly the term critical thinking. Cause it sounds like I have to be a cynic or I have to be, you know, poking somebody in, putting up shortfalls. But really critical thinking, you know, it could be as subtle as, would you want me to investigate this aspect of this? You know, and people say yes. So you can be very comprehensive in your analysis without being, you know, a naysayer or a problem child kind of thing.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:19)

Now it’s interesting that you say that. I mean a lot of people may say, well it’s just semantics but it’s semantics are critically important. I’m sorry. I think give us context and they give us understanding. It’s like we’ve built a fide so many different words in our society that, you know, if we would have used them just a hundred years ago would have had a totally different, you know, context. I mean, I often refer to the one of ignorant and if you look it up, it just says innocent, unknowing. But yet if anything is labeled as ignorant, it is vilified. And that’s just, that’s just unfortunate. Now when we start talking about these, these transformations, these transitions, these learnings and all that stuff, I mean we talk about getting over the hump on the show. Um, and those personal stories of when we had those experiences can be so helpful for others. I just was telling my daughter the other day, I said, even though you may not want to hear my stories, you know, if you actually work to listen, seeing that we’re very similar in the way that we go about thinking, maybe you’ll gain some insight for yourself, you know, choose a better path. Of course she doesn’t want to hear that from dad. But, um, is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

Mary Lippitt: (25:26)

Yes. Um, early in my career I thought rational analysis would always win the day. And I was trying to influence up, uh, the chain of command and I got rejected and I couldn’t believe it. I was dumbfounded. And it wasn’t until I got a task I was, we had a, this was a large organization, we had about 30,000 employees and I got tasked with writing the head executives monthly column to the employees. So I got to sit down and talk with him. And we saw things very differently as what was a priority and how we analyzed it was very different. Now if you’re writing the top executive, you got to adjust your thinking to his point of view. Obviously extra. I write something, he’s going to review it, he’s going to edit it. He would rather not have to edit it heavily. So I hadn’t, I had to start opening my own mind.

 

Mary Lippitt: (26:32)

I have to tell you, I was convinced sometimes that I had more answers than I really had and I thought I saw things more clearly than I really did. Um, there’s, there’s a comment, you know, what you see is not all there is. And I, that was my opening to begin to recognize I didn’t see everything and all the facts that I thought I had had many gaps but I’d never had collected them. So that exercise of writing for him really showed me how differently people fought. And again, we tend in our society to say, if you think differently from me, you’re wrong. And, um, what I realized was when you think differently from me, you helped me. You helped me, I benefit from these differences. And so instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, you know, what can I learn? How do they see reality?

 

Mary Lippitt: (27:31)

What am I missing? And you know, there’s lots of stories about, you know, witnesses to car accidents and you know, everybody saw the same accident but they recall different things. That’s what we have to recognize in our organizations. People are going to focus on different things. Some will get the right, so we’ll get the wrong, but we’ve got at least collect them before we can evaluate them. And that was how I started to realize there really was, um, great wisdom that I was missing. And so I really learned the importance of asking more questions rather than asking just a couple of, you know, jumping into my conclusions, which I was fairly sure I was right. Um, I mean this is basically the confirmation bias. I collected the information that supported my point of view. And sometimes I remind people that at one point in time bankers said you could give a 95% mortgage because home prices never go down more than 5%. That was a false assumption. And so I’m beginning to become maybe is more humble because I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realized that no one does. And so this is why we need to work together. And so I think we could work together to produce results. But we also, when we work together, we show respect for another person. We showed that we value them and we therefore engage them and we get the kind of collaboration and teamwork that makes our jobs very satisfying.

 

Jim Rembach: (29:03)

Well, the only way that it does that though, Mary, is because if we have, you know, very useful frameworks because otherwise all of that diversity and different perspectives are going to not enable us to move forward. And that’s why I’m really glad that you’ve actually shared these situational mindset models and everything else that goes with it. So when I start looking at that and looking at the, you know, where you’ve been in the work that you’ve done in the work that you’re still yet to do, when I start thinking about some of the goals you have, um, I’d like to hear one, what is one goal that you have?

 

Mary Lippitt: (29:37)

I would like to expand our definition of leadership to include making sure that we balance the short and the longterm and the ability to gain active support from others. I think that our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow and I value everything we’ve done in the past. Um, just it, my uncle Ronald lipid with Kurt Loland did the very first leadership study in 1938 it was called the Lou and liquid white study and they came up with laissez Faire leadership and all that. And I really think everything that we’ve done in leadership has been fantastic, uh, whether it’s group dynamics, whether it’s emotional intelligence, whether it’s style, whatever else. But I think we’ve left out our situational ability to, to deliver, uh, the best for the organization. So I really would like to expand how we look at leadership

 

Jim Rembach: (30:43)

and this world of customer centric transformation. And you know, I’m a digital transformation and all of that. This type of leadership is really bottled to not just the success of an organization, but the existence of an organization and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com for slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay Mary, the hump day. Hold on as a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to be as give us robust yet rapid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Mary rib lipid. Are you ready to hoedown all right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Mary Lippitt: (31:55)

I like to so much to look at new ideas, but sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goal so I can become distracted and I need to re remember it again. What is my priority today?

 

Jim Rembach: (32:14)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:18)

Listen, persevere and respect others.

 

Jim Rembach: (32:24)

What do you believe is one of your secrets that helps you contribute to your success?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:29)

I think I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions.

 

Jim Rembach: (32:33)

And what is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:38)

I a situational mindset checklist. It’s a basically reminding me what questions I need to ask and those questions can be tailored to the level of the organization or the type of industry. So that really helps me. And I know that some people discount the, the, the importance of a checklist, but I’ll say lawyers, doctors, pilots and Santa Claus. You checklist

 

Jim Rembach: (33:04)

and what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to situational mindsets on your show notes page as well.

 

Mary Lippitt: (33:14)

Well, I think the Daniel Kahneman’s thinking fast and slow is absolutely fantastic book. And I also will give a shout out to the art of war, my son zoo many, many years ago, which again talked about the importance of learning the lay of the ground. And that’s what I’m talking about with situationals concepts.

 

Jim Rembach: (33:34)

Okay. Fast, literally. And you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/mary lipid. Okay, Mary, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have no back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Mary Lippitt: (33:57)

I would take back the ability to say I do not know. And the that leads to my willingness, um, to ask the questions and again, engage people and make a better decision. I really, I think for a while thought I do not know, was demeaning of me when I now realize it is showing the fact that I understand the complexity of this world.

 

Jim Rembach: (34:24)

Mary, I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the fast leader Legion how they can connect with you?

 

Mary Lippitt: (34:30)

Uh, they can connect with me at Mary, at situational mindsets.com or www, situational mindsets.com

 

Jim Rembach: (34:39)

Mary lipid, thank you for sharing and knowledge and wisdom. Fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

[/expand]

Lee Colan | The Power of Positive Coaching

230: Lee Colan: A coaching opportunity for me

Lee Colan Show Notes Page

Lee Colan didn’t shut up. He thought he was a good listener, but a friend shared with him after a meeting that he didn’t really hear what people had to say. That’s when Lee realized he had to work on his skillset and his mindset. Now he shares this insight in helping others be more positive coaches.

Lee was born in Franklin Square, New York a suburban community on Long Island.  When he was seven, his family like many families at that time migrated to the southern tip of Long Island known as Fort Lauderdale, Florida.  There he developed a love for sports, particularly football and basketball. Later he would come to more fully appreciate the discipline and lessons gleaned from participating in team sports.

Lee was blessed with a stable, unconditionally loving family. He was the youngest of three children with a sister three years older and a brother 15 years older…. so Lee was clearly a late in life surprise for his parents!

Lee’s parents were part of the Greatest Generation, so hard work, education and caring for others were core values. His mother was a book keeper and his father was a commercial artist, so Lee inherited equal parts of analytical and creative skills. He also had five educators in his extended family which infused Lee with a desire to train and educate even if not in a traditional school classroom.

Lee held various corporate leadership roles with American Airlines, Sandoz (Novartis) and FoxMeyer (McKesson). He was a consultant with two premier firms: Booz, Allen & Hamilton and Mercer earlier in his career. His last corporate post was as Vice President for Physician Reliance Network, one of the fastest growing NASDAQ companies at the time.

He co-founded The L Group, Inc., a management consulting firm focused on leadership, in 1999. His business partner for the past 20 years and co-author of the last six books is also his wife of 32 years.

In addition to serving his clients, writing and speaking, Lee also serves on the Board of Directors for Pacific Seafood Group, the largest fully integrated seafood company in North America. He is a former director for Aztec Systems who was ultimately sold to a private equity firm. He also served on the Advisory Board for ASSET InterTech.

Lee views his business as his ministry, so he regularly gifts his time to numerous individuals who are in life or career transition and also to agencies who need a clear focus or just a pair of hands. Some of those agencies include The United Way, North Texas Food Bank and Grace Bridge.

Lee lives in the Dallas area with his wife, Julie. They have three children – one works in advertising like his grandfather and lives in New York and two of them currently attend Wake Forest University. Their three kids have co-authored a book titled, Please Listen Up, Parents:  12 Secrets YORU Kids Want YOU to Know.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @leecolan to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“The most complex challenges leaders have can be boiled down to simple truths that are both timely and timeless.” Click to Tweet

“At its core, coaching is bringing out in someone what they didn’t see themselves.” Click to Tweet

“Business leaders are just finding out what athletes have known for years, that a coach helps elevate your performance.” Click to Tweet

“If you’re helping people get the best out of themselves, you’re probably a pretty darn good coach.” Click to Tweet

“Leading people hasn’t really changed much in a 100 years.” Click to Tweet

“If you really love people, you could be a great coach.” Click to Tweet

“If you explain expectations you get alignment.” Click to Tweet

“If you ask questions you get engagement.” Click to Tweet

“If you involve your team you get ownership.” Click to Tweet

“Being a coach is a central role of a leader.” Click to Tweet

“A positive coaching mindset, times positive coaching habits, results in winning results and relationship.” Click to Tweet

“You can’t have all results and not relationships.” Click to Tweet

“The bookends of success are initiative and closure.” Click to Tweet

“The bookends of coaching success are explaining and appreciating.” Click to Tweet

“We need to proactively address stuff when it’s a mole hill.” Click to Tweet

“As a leader we have to know that it’s our own discomfort needs to be subordinated to what’s in the best interest of my team.” Click to Tweet

“You never what to put your own creditability at risk because that’s the main thing you have as a leader and coach.” Click to Tweet

“If you don’t have integrity, no one’s following you.” Click to Tweet

“We have to be more specific then we really need to be, upfront.” Click to Tweet

“A friend is someone who is willing to tell you what you really don’t want to hear.” Click to Tweet

“Once I change my mindset the behavior easily follows.” Click to Tweet

“When you think about organizational change there’s three levels, mindset, skillset, then toolset.” Click to Tweet

“Awareness of personal impact it key.” Click to Tweet

“You don’t have to know everything; you can be resourceful.” Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Lee Colan didn’t shut up. He thought he was a good listener, but a friend shared with him after a meeting that he didn’t really hear what people had to say. That’s when Lee realized he had to work on his skillset and his mindset. Now he shares this insight in helping others be more positive coaches.

Advice for others

Have faith to know that everything works out okay.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

My mindset of feeling that I was a better writer about leadership than I was a leader myself.

Best Leadership Advice

You don’t have to know everything; you can be resourceful.

Secret to Success

Turning strategy or concepts into specific actionable things.

Best tools in business or life

The three W’s. What has to happen, who’s responsible, by when.

Recommended Reading

The Power of Positive Coaching: The Mindset and Habits to Inspire Winning Results and Relationships

The Prophet (A Penguin Classics Hardcover)

Contacting Lee Colan

Website: https://www.thelgroup.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/leecolan

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leecolan/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

230: Lee Colan: A coaching opportunity for me

 

Intro:     Welcome to the fast leader podcast where we uncover the leadership life hacks that help you to experience breakout performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host customer and employee engagement expert & certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rimbach. 

Call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen so go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path e-book now.

 

Okay, Fast Leader legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to help us cut the cotton, in other words we’re going to get rid of the fluff. Lee Colan was born in Franklin Square, New York a suburban community on Long Island. When he was 7 his family, like many families at the time, migrated to the suburban or southern tip of Long Island known as Fort Lauderdale, Florida. There he developed the love for sports particularly football and basketball. Later he would come to more fully appreciate the discipline and lessons gleaned from participating in team sports. Lee was blessed with a stable unconditionally loving family. He was the youngest of three children with a sister three years older and her brother 15 years older so Lee was clearly a late in life surprise for his parents. 

These parents were part of the greatest generation so hard work education and caring for others were core values. His mother was a bookkeeper and his father was a commercial artist so Lee inherited equal parts of analytical and creative skills. He also had five educators in his extended family which infused Lee with a desire to learn and educate and train even if not in a traditional school classroom. Lee held various corporate leadership roles with American Airlines, Sandoz which also known Novartis and Fox Meyer which is now McKesson and he was a consultant with two premier firms Booz Allen Hamilton and Mercer earlier in his career. 

His latest corporate post was as a vice president for Physician Reliance Network, one of the growing Nasdaq companies at that time. He co-founded the L Group and a management consulting firm focused on leadership in 1999. His business partner for the past 20 years and co-author of his last six books is also his wife of 32 years. In addition, to serving his clients,  writing and speaking, Lee also serves on the board of directors for Pacific Seafood group the largest fully integrated seafood company in North America. 

He is a former director for Aztec systems who was ultimately sold to a private equity firm. He also served on the advisory board for Asset Intertek. Lee views his business as his ministry so he regularly gifts his time to numerous individuals who are in life or career transition and also to agencies who need a clear focus or just a pair of hands. Some of those agencies include the United Way, North Texas Food Bank and Grace Bridge. Lee lives in the Dallas area with his wife Julie. They have three children, one works in advertising, like his grandfather and lives in New York and two of them currently attended Wake Forest University, which is also the alma mater of my wife and 45 minutes from where I live, and their three kids. He co-authored a book titled, Please Listen Up Parents: 12 Secrets Your Kids Want You To Know.  Lee Colan, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Lee Colan:     Always ready Jim, you got it. 

Jim Rembach:    I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? 

Lee Colan:     Yeah, we just like to encourage and equip leaders at every level. It’s really about simple tools we believe the most complex talented leaders have can be boiled down to simple truths that are both timely and timeless. I’m a pretty feeble-minded simple-minded guy so I just like to look at challenges our clients are having and figure out simple ways to kind of help them get over the hump. And so whether it’s just a tool that we’ll be talking about later or just an idea or a concept we love equipping them with those tools but then also encouraging them along the way and that goes for business but also our personal life that’s kind of my mission in life just kind of lifts people up. 

Jim Rembach:    I really appreciate your recent volume and you’ve written several books but and I haven’t had the opportunity because I’ve just been introduced to you, which I’m so excited, of the others. But we’re talking about the power of positive coaching. For me as I was going through your book there were so many things that just hit me so hard. You and I had some off mic conversations about some other tools that people have been exposed to that are quite popular in regards to coaching that are just so confusing where I’m not going to name those because we don’t want to point people to those. I love the guy I love the way you guys laid out the different aspects associated with positive coaching. I’m just going to go ahead and read those we’re going to talk about those a little bit. So we talked about, inspiring coaches explained expectations, inspiring coaches asked questions, inspiring coaches involve team members, inspiring coaches measure results, and inspiring coaches appreciate people. 

Lee Colan:     Now before we get into that, you and I had also talked about the differences and what coaching really is. A lot of times people go through a particular experience and they get an idea of what coaching is and from what I’ve experienced most of time it’s wrong. So what is coaching versus other things? Well I would say at its core, because we could probably have a debate about what people different definition, and its core it’s bringing out in someone what they didn’t see themselves. Helping them perform at levels that they didn’t think they could perform at in a sustainable way not cracking a whip. It’s bringing awareness to that person it’s bringing encouragement and tools to that person it’s drawing out in them knowledge and insights maybe they didn’t think they had. Really we wrote this book to help leaders elevate their coaching game. The truth is business leaders are just finding out what athletes have known for years that a coach helps elevate your performance. In the business world we’ve gone to this paradigm shift of a coaching used to be a scarlet A 25 years ago, oh these is our coach, it was remedial to now it’s a badge of honor. People like—hey, how come I don’t have a coach? The reality is very few organizations can afford the resource of manager and a coach. So we just wrote this book to equip leaders with a tool set so they could elevate their coaching game and build the coaching culture inside the organization and do it in their way. We give them the basic fundamentals and tools but I think it’s really about how you authentically express that. I try not to get caught up in saying, the coach is this so you have to do this or a coach should or shouldn’t do that. If you’re helping the people get the best out of themselves you’ve probably put it on a good coach.

Jim Rembach:    In addition to that and I’d like to add one of the things as far as really getting connection and understanding in what we’re talking about here is you explain for example what an Olympic coach goes through. You think about an Olympian, they’re essentially practicing 99 percent of the time for (7:32 inaudible) percent of performance. If we look at all that goes into that and that effort for them to be able to master their sport and the working world we flipped that paradigm. And that created a significant problem when you start looking at the skills that are required in the workforce what is being trained in our traditional education systems and so companies are kind of stuck in this huge hole of what I need people to do for us to be successful in the modern workplace versus everything that we’ve done traditionally. I think coaching is really the thing that will bridge and close that gap so more and more organizations do need coaching they do need more coaches they do need this—and I think you’ve created a different system so I think that’s what rolls into us talking to about the positive coaching habits. Walk us through those a little. 

Lee Colan:     Again it’s the positive coaching habits. We try to use the research over the past decade that’s been evolving in the area of positive psychology, and again my backgrounds in industrial organizational psychology, so we try to understand—if you’re a leader if you’re a good psychologist if you understand people understand the human dynamic understand how their bodies work our chemistry works when I feel appreciated what happens to my body? We’re creatures of pleasure so I get these endorphins going that feels good I want to do more of that. So if you just understand some basic dynamics about how people work, the truth is leading people hasn’t really changed much in a hundred years. I say that people is going to get, ohh, they get all up in arms—no, globalization mixed generations in the workforce and more technology, that’s all the swirling whirlwind we try to take people to the core of the storm where it’s stable. The fundamentals if you understand people and you understand how they work—honestly, to be a great coach if you really love people because you have to invest in people you can be a great coach. And so we try to take those dynamics and boil them down to these five simple steps that you rattled of, explain, ask, involve, measure and appreciate. And if you do those as a habit every day you’ll get the outcome. So if you explain expectations you get alignment. If you ask questions you get engagement. If you involve your team you get ownership. 

So what we see happening is people get busy going, I can’t squeeze this I don’t have time to  explain I don’t want to ask questions because I know the answers I’ll appreciate them later. We call that salt and pepper coaching. We do a little bit here a little bit there. It’s a choice you can choose these five habits I just rattled off. If you choose those you get the outcome and the outcomes are alignment, engagement, commitment, accountability, ownership, those kind of things. But if you choose not to, because I’m too busy or it’s just not I don’t see that as part of my job, well then you’re going to get the opposite you’re going to get misalignment you’re going to get disengagement you’re going to get blaming. We believe that being a coach is a central role of a leader so if you’re really serious about it you need to take these five habits seriously and if you own them you’re going to get these things on the other side of the equation those positive outputs which most leaders, I would imagine all leaders, want that. So it’s really a choice we talked about just a choice. If you want these positive outputs these are the inputs you have to have is a leader.

Jim Rembach:    And part of those positive outputs—and you talk about there’s a book called The Art of the Start and your coaching journey in the process is that—you and I have this off mic and for me I’m a huge believer of mindset and you talked about previous interviews that resonates with people and Dr. Carol Dweck’s work on mindset it’s vitally important to this component. If you can just kind of hit on that for a brief moment but I will dig a little bit deeper into the whole expectations piece. Because what I see is that there are so many holes and so many opportunities that we can actually leverage if we just do a better job of patient settings, tell us a little bit about that. 

Lee Colan:     Agreed. I’ll just do a 30-second rewind on mindset then we’ll jump into expectations. So our formula that outlines this whole book is that a positive coaching mindset times positive coaching habits results in winning results in relationship. It’s that two-sided wake that every leader leaves of results and relationships. You can’t have all results and not relationship so you can’t have the reverse either. But it starts with your mindset, and like any interaction if I have going this thing with Jim he’s a real pain, I’m going to get out of that relationship what that mindsets going to dictate. So we have to have a positive coaching mindset and it’s based on four levels of awareness. We have to know our thoughts our purpose our values and our emotions. If we have a deep understanding of those we could bring the best version of ourselves to serve the person that we’re coaching in the best way into that interaction. 

If our minds is all negative and messed up and unclear we’re not going to really be able to employ the coaching habits in the best possible or the best impact. So it’s really clear upfront to have that mindset. But as you jump into the habits and the first one is explained and the last one is appreciate—we always talk about the bookends of success are initiative enclosure. You initiate things and you can begin the closure. I believe the bookends of coaching success are the same the first and the last ones explaining and appreciating. Not that the others are not important but we find, we talked about this off mic, 80% of our coaching issues when we work with a client is because they didn’t align on expectations and clarify the expectations up front and you pay for that later. It’s the ultimate pay me now or pay me later leadership proposition defining the expectations up front. People said, I don’t have time we’re too busy, he should know what to do. I’m like, Tony, I don’t care if you have high paid MBA’s you need to be clear up front that’s not micromanaging it’s just aligning on expectations up front take five minutes to do it now you save hours later. Cheat on it now you invest hours later. 

Jim Rembach:    Initially you had said, pay me now or pay me later. And then you said a little bit differently because you’re talking about the magnitude of the pay me later, it’s a multiplicative issue here. Okay, I could spend the dollar now, I’m going to spend ten thousand—it is that huge of a difference often.

Lee Colan:     Absolutely, absolutely. It’s what we call from molehills to mountains. You don’t address an issue now or don’t clarify expectations now and it would take a few minutes to do it and you wait till later now we’ve got an issue now it’s going to take me a day. And we wait till later now it’s weeks in conversations with HR and this it’s a pain in the neck. So we need to proactively address stuff when it’s a molehill and it’s easy to kind of sweep things under the rug. Stephen Covey has a great quote in his book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People from years ago that says, unaddressed emotions don’t go away they just rear their heads and uglier ways. And are corollary to that is that, unaddressed performance issues don’t go away they just rear their heads and uglier ways. So if you just kind of bury your head in the sand, everyone do a little visual in this, put your head in the sand, what’s sticking up? It’s not a very attractive view for anybody. We have to be able to be bold enough. 

As a leader we have to know that our own discomfort needs to be subordinated to what’s in the best interest of my team. Because if someone’s not performing and I’m not addressing it their colleagues even get frustrated with that employee at first but after a while they’re going to say, well it’s going to shift to the leader and go, you know what? He or she’s allowing that. Usually if not the leaders realize their own credibility’s at risk then they say, oh, I better jump on that. And we would say, you never want to put your own credibility at risk because that’s the main thing that you have as a leader and a coach and if you don’t have your own credibility and integrity that you do what you say you’re going to do, if you don’t have integrity no one’s following you. And guess what? If no one’s following you you’re not really leading. So we just really think that inspiring coaches they subordinate their own discomfort, no one loves to have tough conversations with people but they understand that for the benefit of the team, and for that person I’m serving them best to have that conversation I’m not really serving him even though it feels better now maybe to avoid it I’m not really serving them or the team to do that.

Jim Rembach:    For me I often get the opportunity to come down to reality through coaching middle school baseball. I had a great one of these examples to be able to share yesterday, I was going through a pitching instructions session with one of my kids and so I had the opportunity to ask him I said, you like playing? He goes, oh, I loved them. I said, okay, so what are some of your goals? He says, well, I would like to be able to become a college baseball player and then maybe someday make it in the pros. For me I didn’t want to tell him that .001 percent of all high school players, if you play high school, have a chance to even make it to the major leagues so let’s not go there. And so I want to talk to him about the things that he needs to be able to do in order to put himself in a position for success. So I said, okay, great, how much work are you doing outside the practice? Then I said, one of the important components of being able to be an elite athlete is nutrition. So how do you actually make six-pack abs? And he goes, doing a lot of sit-ups. And I said, no. You have to do that but six pack abs aren’t made in the kitchen what you’re (17:00 inaudible) in is fuel. And so this kid is overweight and (17:07 inaudible) So I said, okay, so what are you doing from a nutrition perspective to be that elite athlete that can make it into high school and they even has a high school ball play and even has a chance to make me in a college play, and then maybe someday set them out for success as a pro and he’s not. And he goes, chips. Okay, let’s come down from a coaching perspective as setting expectations as also them coming into realization that they have to do things and put in and say, I can’t do that for you as a coach. 

Lee Colan:     We boil it down again very simple minded like three w’s, what, who and when. So whether you’re leaving someone in a quick conversation in the hallway or actually talking and having specific coaching conversation with them it’s—what are you going to do by when? And then what am I going to do by when? So what, who and when, very simple just kind of align on expectations. We’ve got to do that with every meeting with our clients we always have a kind of a 3W forum we come away with. What I carried around is a mental template even as I’m talking to someone. It’s amazing when you’re interacting with someone, just you and I I’m bringing all my expectations and experiences and assumptions to the table to this conversation and you’re doing the same. So what are the chances if we have to do something that we’re just going to say something real quick and we’re going to be aligned exactly on that? Slim and not, right?

It’s just a good habit of saying, okay, let’s just make sure we sync up on it. Thirty seconds, all right Jimmy you’re going to do this by then okay and I’m going to do this by then that was five seconds not even 30 seconds to prevent us from kind of getting off-track later on and that doesn’t feel good for either party. When you’re coaching someone if someone’s kind of off track and they’re not doing what you expected, and I was telling a client, it’d be helpful if your team could read your mind maybe a little scary but helpful. But that’s not how the world is. So we have to be really more specific than we think we need to be up front. That is not micromanaging it’s just being very specific right expectations. The way they get there can be the wrong way they get all the autonomy to do that. But aligning on the expectations it’s ultimately the pay me now or pay me later. 

Jim Rembach:    Because I also find to me that I have to come back, it’s like, you said this, has your thought changed? Has your desire changed? Or is it the same? 

Lee Colan:     It’s okay for it to change but we always kind of checking in on stuff. So really in terms of coaching others, coaching your kids, little league, someone in the community you’re doing volunteer work, your team, whoever it might really spending that time upfront aligning on expectations, boy, you make your life a lot easier moving forward on that.

Jim Rembach:    Ultimately what that gets to—in the book you talk about the circle of consequences. One of the things that I kind of have a cringe factor on is that consequences and that word has received such a negative context in our society. But the fact this is that consequences comes in all forms and formats. We have positive consequences, negative consequences and neutral consequences, so tell us little about your circle of consequences. 

Lee Colan:     I mentioned the three W, what who and when, so circle of consequences is kind of the fourth w it’s the why. You give someone a new project or a new process you need to walk them through this circle and say, okay, this is your performance how does this performance going to affect our team? How does that ultimate thinking affect our organization? And what impact does it have on our customers? And then has it affect our shareholders whether it’s private or public? And then it comes right back to you at the top of the circle, how is that affect your opportunities? Your ability to grow? Your exposure? Your promotions? All that stuff in the business. It’s self-serving but it’s ultimately the question people always have. You ask me to do this like, what’s in it for me? So as a leader we need to be overt about that that’s fine. Okay, let’s talk about it. Jim, here’s this new project here’s this new opportunity here’s this new challenge let’s talk about let’s make sure you understand the impact of the bigger picture how it’s going to impact your team the organization our shareholders and then right back to you. 

Again that’s another 30-second conversation but now I’ve got my why answered and now I feel like, okay, I’ve got the bigger picture I’m just not a robot going to do this because my boss said so. I have a chance to buy into it I see the impact it’s going to have I’m much more motivated that way and I buy into it better that way. That few second conversation of closing the loop with people from their personal performance right back to their personal impact how it’s going to impact them can be very powerful. And of course it’s not a one-way thing it’s a dialogue like you talk about. Okay, how is this going to affect our team? What does that mean? That kind of thing. Again a few minutes upfront investment gets you much more discretionary effort on the back end of that conversation.

Jim Rembach:    To me as I was going through I also started thinking about something that a lot of people mentioned today and they talked about fit, right fit, that I lack sacrifice, potential skills and experiences in order to find the right fit because it’s ** for organization. I think we always have to go through that fit test, I know throughout my life certain things have changed, I’ve learned a little bit more about certain values I’ve ejected some added some I’ve deepen some and those things happen as mean mature and so I always have to find myself going through a fit check for things that I’m spending my efforts on. I think sometimes coming to that mutual realization to where somebody says, well, I don’t fit or I no longer fit. If you’re an objective is significantly more positive it’s negative.

Lee Colan:     Ultimately, yes absolutely. This book is focused on coaching but on our other books on leadership we absolutely talk about selections like your biggest leverage point as a leader. Getting the right getting the right people filtering the right out if they don’t fit. That process is an ongoing one not just like, oh, I’ll hire them, it’s great, maybe it’s two or three years into their career and maybe it isn’t fitting the role of the rim maybe it’s not right for them things in their life have changed things in the organization has changed, I’ve changed, so I think it’s appropriate and relevant conversation along the way for sure.

Jim Rembach:    I think another thing is that you have in here something and I asked you about the source of it and you’re like, oh, that’s evolved and it’s tapped it to me I think it’s so important for everybody to understand them it’s called pyramid of learning. So when we talk about the pyramid of learning we have to really take that into consideration when we start talking about helping people to develop their potential, tell us a little bit about that.

Lee Colan:     Absolutely. This falls under the involved coaching habit to involve your team. The pyramid of learning is really about how well we retain things. If you think about from the top of the pyramid if I just read something—Jim, you just send me a—here’s this new procedure read it and we got to start implementing it tomorrow. The chances of me retaining and actually implementing that effectively is about 10 percent. So if we read something our retention is fairly low. If we read and hear something now at about 20 percent. If we read, hear, and say something we’re about 30 percent, so it goes all the way down the pyramid. If we actually say and do something in other words we demonstrate the skill that’s about 90 percent retention. 

The point is as we coach we get in this busy world we were tap on this leadership treadmill we’re busy, busy moving one thing or the other. We might handoff this policy, hey, Jack go do this, hey, sue go do that and we hand something and we think we’re coaching we’re giving them stuff but what happens is we get ourselves caught in what’s called re-coaching because they get it they don’t do it and next week you say, hey I gave you that policy last week why don’t you implement it. Well, I’ve got a million other things. It’s not about their intelligence it’s like they just don’t get that. One extra minute instead of me saying, hey, Jim can we start implementing this policy? I said, Jim read this policy and after lunch I’m going to come back to you and tell me what you think about it and how you might implement it. 

Now you’ve had a chance to read it, integrate it into your thinking, think about how you’re going to implement it and then express that. I’ve pushed from 10 percent at the top of the learning pyramid in just a few minutes. I really have to meet with you after lunch now we’re way down at the bottom of the learning pyramid probably 70 80 percent. That small investment of time to involve the person in the coaching process enables them to feel better about it. They’re actually be able to implement it effectively and people want it they want to master or something they want to feel good about it. Certainly as a coach selfishly I want my people to master things and I don’t have to deal with this again. So spend two extra minutes and I can get it right the first time. So it’s important to understand that learning pyramid and think about—and when I talked about read, read, say, say and do all of that I’m talking about that from the coach ease perspective not from the coach’s perspective. 

When you think about your coaching think about a scenario you might have had where was the person I was coaching on that learning pyramid? Was I just giving him something to read? Was I well telling them something in which case they’re just hearing it? So, there’s always a great and very quick and efficient opportunities to push further down the learning pyramid so that we can boost the coaching effectiveness.

Jim Rembach:    Without a doubt. Going through and having all these life experiences and writing these books and going through these activities and all of that you’ve learned a lot along the way to get to the point to where you are now. And I’m sure there’s times where you’ve had to get over the hump yourself as you’ve learned something from it. Can you share some stories with us? 

Lee Colan:     A coaching opportunity for me—I used to think I was a really good listener until I had someone who are really trusted and a friend, and I always say a friend is someone who’s willing to tell you what you really don’t want to hear but they tell it to you to build you up not to break you down, so this friend of mine said, you know what Lee? I know you generally a good listener one on one in that meeting? You couldn’t shut up. You really didn’t call—I don’t think you really heard what people had to say. And you know what that was part of? No only, I needed to work on my skill set but it was part of my mindset because I went in with a certain mindset like I knew the solution and I wasn’t really willing to hear it I had this filter going. Okay, here’s what I think and everything else just bounced off. So it was really a lesson to me more about just my mindset being open to things. If our mindset is at the right place, remember the four levels of awareness know your thoughts, your purpose, your values, and your emotions, I really work on that a lot I feel like we can align our mindset in the right place we’re much more effective kind of a skills and our approaches. 

Just kind of drew me back to—I’ve got to know that I don’t have it all right I’ve got to be open and really listen. Once I change my mindset the behavior easily followed that was easy. I find that a lot with our clients we work with them on skills and stuff. When you think about organizational change there are three levels there’s mindset, skillset and then toolset. Many times books and coaches and stuff focus on, here’s a new skill here’s a new tool. And that’s great but you got to get the mindset right because you’re swimming upstream all day long if you have the wrong mindset even with the right set of tools and skills.

Jim Rembach:    I think we kind of have come full circle on the mindset thing, the mindset thing can help with the resiliency piece there’s just so many different components. One of the things that I talk about is the ecosystem impact, kind of alluded it to as well. But it’s like, hey, I start with me and then it can affect my colleagues in fact my peers it can affect my direct reports it can affect those people above me my team department my company the customer and then ultimately getting down to the industry and then maybe even affecting the world. And I think that’s so critically important to know that we all really are part of something bigger than ourselves it’s just a matter of whether or not we have visibility to it.

Lee Colan:     That’s right and so awareness of personal impact is key and that’s why the circle of consequences is important to let people understand that this is not in a vacuum and there’s a ripple effect with everything that. All of us do every day I just don’t think leaders and coaches are as often enough explicit about what that looks like so people can really see it. 

Jim Rembach:    Most definitely. Okay, so when we start talking about—you’ve written tons of books you and I talked about some of those other things that are out there that are more popular than some of the work that you’re doing but all of that causes us to want to make a bigger dent in the universe, circle of influence. When I start thinking about some of your goals what’s one of them? 

Lee Colan:     Personally I’d like to push myself physically and I’d like to run a half marathon in the next year. So I always even tell my kids it’s great to push yourself physically once in a while. I’m not like some extreme athlete or anything, do know why?  It’s not about the body it’s about the mindset and the preparation and the discipline and kind of the grit to be able to get through that it’s always great to kind of test yourself once in a while to know what you’re made of, so that’s one thing. On the business side, it’s really just about continuing to try to put good out into the world to help people elevate their game personally and professionally. And that’s keeping things simple. Again I’m a pretty simple minded guy. 

I know all the research and the complexity of the science planet but my goal is to get through the complexity to the other side of it to simplicity where people could digest it and apply it. That’s really been all of our books our firmware very much a how-to consulting firm. So we just continue to try to come up identify challenges leaders have and find simple ways that they could say, hey, I could get my head around that. Whether it’s engagement or execution or accountability or coaching every leader agrees, I need to do that. They agree to the what? But they get tangled up in the how to. Because they’re like, whoa, what do I have to do I can see it’s all look so complex? I don’t think there are too many challenges in the world particularly from a leadership perspective or sales or service perspective where it’s that complex. There are always one two or three little steps we could take to kind of move forward. That’s our goal to continue to kind of find simple solutions to address complex challenges so people can elevate themselves and their teams. 

Jim Rembach:    And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor: 

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with their colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better. 

 

Alright here we go Fast Leader legion, it’s time for the Hump day Hoedown. Okay Lee, the Hump day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Lee Colan, are you ready to hoedown?

Lee Colan:     I am ready, go for it. 

Jim Rembach:    What is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Lee Colan:     I would say my mindset of feeling that I’m not a better writer about leadership that I am a leader myself. And I feel like I’ve been a leader for the past 20 years and I need to kind of work on that mindset to say, I could do this. I think my mindset in a lot of areas of my life is still somewhat—you always have to work on it. It’s like cleaning your house you don’t clean it once and then it’s clean forever you always have to be working on your mindset and that’s an ongoing challenge for me. 

Jim Rembach:    What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Lee Colan:     Best leadership advice I ever got was that you don’t have to know everything. You could be resourceful. And old professor said, Lee the key to success is not to be able to know everything is to be able to plug up your ignorance within 24 hours. So it’s a lesson to me about being resourceful. With all the resources we have now it’s really more like four hours but I don’t burden myself of having the know everything but I do challenge myself to be resourceful to be able to get answers and solutions and relationships quickly.

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your secrets that you believe leads to your success?

Lee Colan:     I believe turning strategy or concepts into specific actionable things. Strategy is great but if people can’t act on it, it just goes nowhere. I’m very good about boiling things into three I’m always think in three, step one step two step three, it helps me move forward and I think it helps our clients move forward.

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Lee Colan:     I think one of the best tools we alluded to it’s the three W’s. Everything I do I have a project, I always have a 3W, what has to happen? Who’s responsible? By when?  It’s ultimately a project planning tool but it’s really an accountability tool. It helps me it helps our clients.

Jim Rembach:    What would be one book that you recommend to our Legion, it could be from any genre, and of course we’re going to put a link to, The Power of Positive Coaching, on your show notes page as well. 

Lee Colan:     Thank you for that, thank you for that. A book that is near and dear to my soul is The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran. Years ago—it just got each chapter like on love on marriage on whatever various on success various topics. He’s a poet, very deep writer and it’s very simple, it’s profound and simple and that’s kind of writing that I like. Give me one paragraph a couple sentences and it hits me in the heart, that says a lot, The Prophet.

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/lee colan. Okay, Lee this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25. You can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take it all you can only choose one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Lee Colan:     Okay, I would take deep in faith that I have now back with me to know that everything always works out okay. When you’re 25 you’re making lots of decisions and it seems for it kind of crazy and the fact is if I know now about leaning on my faith, I happened to be a Christians I’m not espousing for anybody but that is my faith. I believe in Jesus as my Savior. And so if I had that faith then or that knowledge of it then and been through some of the trials and ups and downs now I think this would have been a little steadier a little smoother and maybe handle things a little bit differently. So my deep in faith, that’s one thing I would take back with me.

Jim Rembach:    Lee, it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you? 

Sure. It’s the thelgroup.com, if they want to subscribe or just tips and tools, they could just text the word leadership to 444 999. They just text the word leadership to 444 999

Lee Colan:     Lee Colan thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

END OF AUDIO

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Ajit Nawalkha Live Big | Mindvalley | Evercoach

208: Ajit Nawalkha: I believe I can live big

Ajit Nawalkha Show Notes Page

Ajit Nawalkha used to have a constant dialogue of self-doubt. Coming from a background that was not very abundant, Ajit fought social comparison and feelings that he was not good enough. But over time with constant re-programming, he’s been able to have more dialogue of “I can” and to help others LIVE BIG.

Ajit Nawalkha was born in Jaipur, Rajasthan – India. He grew up in a home with 23 other family members under one roof. Clearly, in such conditions space and money were limited. Early in life, he decided that he wanted a bigger life.

So, he learned that if he was to “make it in life” the choice laid between 3 options: a career of a lawyer, a doctor or of an engineer. Trying to follow the traditional path, Ajit opted for the latest… Only to be standing in front of his family a few years later, announcing that he has chosen a path of an entrepreneur instead.

Online education was at its early stages, Facebook had just come out, believing there were any money or success in that field felt rather as an insanity. Despite family concerns, he dropped his engineering study to pursue a career in business. He started as a non-profit intern in Mindvalley – the same company where one day he would become a CEO.

Joining the company, he felt like he was finally surrounded by people who understood him and spoke his language. Finally, having found his natural environment, Ajit started growing at exponential rate. He quickly moved from a non-profit intern to a department head and then to CEO of the company. That seemed like a dream-come-true.

Ajit had also started his career as an entrepreneur and business investor. He started working with business owners, teachers, and healers, helping them to grow their business. Suddenly the position of the CEO did not seem like the top of his career. Ajit felt his passion and purpose revolved around helping coaches, authors, speakers, and entrepreneurs create a positive impact in the greater world.

So, having achieved what seemed like a pick of the business career before 30, he was starting fresh once again. His company Evercoach was born. Evercoach is a virtual hub for coaches. Ajit’s life was transformed by smart, gifted coaches and mentors, and this motivated him to become a coach himself. His mission is to empower dedicated educators, coaches and teachers to facilitate positive change in the world.

Ajit formulated his own leadership approach. Confronting traditional business education, he advocates for “leader of none” approach, believing you are only as brilliant as people that follow you.

Over the past decade he has helped build training and coaching companies to inspire the coming generation, transform entrepreneurs to live on purpose, while enjoying their lives while increasing profits.

Ajit currently lives in Los Angeles, California and loves to explore the world, learn different cuisines, write, and spending time with his wife Neeta and his son.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to #ajitnawalkha to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet  

“As a leader you’re not just a role model, you need to create other role models.” – Click to Tweet  

“You just being good at your job doesn’t make you a really good leader.” – Click to Tweet  

“Just getting assigned as a leader, while you’re just great at your job, is actually very wrong in context of the stress that it creates for the person.” – Click to Tweet  

“The leader themselves have to first figure themselves out before they step into the role of helping other people.” – Click to Tweet  

“The biggest role of a leader is not to do their job, but to help other people to do their job.” – Click to Tweet  

“Good leaders, you’ll love them for not doing anything.” – Click to Tweet  

“Leaders are supposed to not actually do the job.” – Click to Tweet  

“People who progress in life are people who work on themselves.” – Click to Tweet  

“All humans are working with humans in some capacity.” – Click to Tweet  

“The greater you understand yourself, the greater you understand your capabilities, the greater you understand the outside world.” – Click to Tweet  

“Your inner dialogue is way-way-way deep; it’s uncomfortable, but it’s important.” – Click to Tweet  

“We are all perfect in our own unique way.” – Click to Tweet  

“We are all a set of values and beliefs.” – Click to Tweet  

“The same set of beliefs that may serve you at point in life, does not serve you at a different point in life.” – Click to Tweet  

“Most of our values and beliefs are not nature, they’re nurture.” – Click to Tweet  

“One of the biggest reasons you may not make progress is because your values and beliefs are conflicting to your progress.” – Click to Tweet  

“The most amazing thing about finding yourself is that everything becomes easy.” – Click to Tweet  

“If you want to make progress in your career, know yourself more.” – Click to Tweet  

Hump to Get Over

Ajit Nawalkha used to have a constant dialogue of self-doubt. Coming from a background that was not very abundant, Ajit fought social comparison and feelings that he was not good enough. But over time with constant re-programming, he’s been able to have more dialogue of “I can” and to help others LIVE BIG.

Advice for others

Know that you’ll be okay. Don’t operate from fear and scarcity.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

More learning.

Best Leadership Advice

Care for people, people matter.

Secret to Success

I don’t operate from ego.

Best tools in business or life

Organization, a lot of tech tools.

Recommended Reading

Live Big: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Passion, Practicality, and Purpose

Contacting Ajit Nawalkha

Website: https://www.ajitnawalkha.com/

Website: http://www.livebigthebook.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajitnawalkha

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

 

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

208: Ajit Nawalkha: I believe I can live big

 

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

Call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen so go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path e-book now.

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay Fast Leader Legion today I’m excited because on the show today I have somebody who is going to tell us and help us with a core tenet on what it takes to be an effective leader. Ajit Nawalkha, was born and raised in Jaipur Rajasthan, India. He grew up in a home with 23 other family members under one roof. Clearly in such condition space and money were limited. Early in life he decided that he wanted a bigger life. So he learned that if he was to make it in life the choice laid between three options a career of a lawyer, a doctor, or an engineer. Trying all the traditional path, Ajit, opted for the latest only to be standing in front of his family a few years later announcing that he has chosen a path of an entrepreneur. Online education was at its early stages. Facebook had just come out and believing there were any money or success in that field felt rather as an insanity. Despite family concerns he dropped his engineering study to pursue a career in business. He started as a non-profit intern in Mine Valley, the same company where he one day would become a CEO.

 

Joining the company he felt like he was finally surrounded by people who understood him and spoke his language. Finally having found his natural environment, Ajit, started growing at exponential rate. He quickly moved from a non-profit intern to a department head and then to CEO of the company, that seemed like a dream come true. Ajit had also started his career as an entrepreneur and business investor. He started working with business owners, teachers, healers, helping them to grow their business. Suddenly the position of CEO did not seem like the top of his career. Ajit felt his passion and purpose revolved around helping coaches, authors, speakers, and entrepreneurs create a positive impact in the greater world. So having achieved what seemed like a pic of the business career before 30 he was starting fresh once again. His company, Ever Coach, was born. Ever Coach, is a virtual hub for coaches. Ajit life was transformed by smart, gifted coaches, and mentors and this motivated him to become a coach himself. 

 

His mission is to empower dedicated educator, coaches and teachers to facilitate positive change in the world. Ajit formulated his own leadership approach confronting traditional business education/ He advocates for leader of none approach. Believing you are only as brilliant as the people that follow you. Over the past decade he has helped build training and coaching companies to inspire the coming generation transform entrepreneurs to live on purpose while enjoying their lives while increasing profits. Ajit currently lives in Los Angeles, California and loves to explore the world, learn different cuisines, and write and spending time with his wife Nita and his son. Ajit Nawalkha, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     I’m absolutely excited to be here Jim. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Well I’m glad you’re here. I’ve actually been following you for a number of years so I’m really excited that you’re here. I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     My current passion apart from family of course that’s my primary driver, at this point is just to take care of the family and really spend time with them. But at the same time what I’m passionate about is to be able to create positive change in the world. I do that by building businesses or helping businesses around different types of education sector and different type of education that are around adult development, not just child development. But also by writing books, by writing articles, creating videos that inspire, motivate and help people take action towards creating greater reality for themselves. I’m a researcher in that context. I research, I test, I find different idea, I build them together and I try to create greater philosophies that can help humanity move forward. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Yeah, and I really like I mean I like—like I’ve been following you for a couple years and talking about that whole exploring and testing and talking about adult learning. One of the things that you and I had the opportunity to chat before we got on the interview was this whole concept of—for me trying to develop that existing frontline leader in customer care environments and how oftentimes they’re just given and bestowed the responsibility with not a whole lot of opportunity to develop themselves. But yet they are given the responsibility to develop others. What’s the problem with that? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Well there’s a lot of problems to that. It happened with me also early on in my career where, like you said I was an intern in the company Mind Valley which I’m also a co-founder of. But when I was an intern in the company what had happened was the person that was supposed to lead me had been recently demoted because of some internal challenges in their performance. And because of that I was kind of made the leader of the team. But I didn’t know anything about how online marketing works, how business works. I was learning it but—I was a 24 year old kid I didn’t really know what to do. And at that point what had happened was because of that responsibility I know I built some really bad habits as a leader. As much as you can get this responsibility if you don’t have the right training it becomes a bit of a challenge. Because as a leader you’re not really playing only the role of being a role model but you’re also being somebody who needs to create the role models. You need to be able to inspire the team to be able to take action. You’re just being good at your job doesn’t make you a really good leader it just makes you really good at your job. 

 

Maybe you can train people on it, maybe. But that also is a whole different skill a whole different gamut of area that you need to kind of consider and work towards. So just getting assigned to become a leader while you’re just great at your job is actually very wrong in context of the stress that it creates for the person that takes those leadership roles. Because that is why also we see so much conflict internally in the team it’s because the leader themselves have to first figure themselves out before they are stepping into the role of saying, oh, I can help other people. One of the biggest roles of a leader is not really to do their job but actually to help other people do their job. And that’s really the role of a leader in a way. 

 

Jim Rembach:     As you started talking I started thinking about some of the studies that I have reviewed. One of them talking about, the glass ceiling when you hit a certain point. Meaning that your technical skills and abilities will get you so far and for a lot of people in organizations that will get them to a senior level role. But in order for them to get into that next level where they’re actually leading the people who are in those roles it kind of flips. Your technical skill while it’s important and having that know-how is there but you now have to be one who leads and, oh by the way, I have this technical benefit. 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Exactly. Think about it like this, as you move up the ranks—for all the listeners that are thinking about taking a leadership role or have taken a leadership role, look at your leaders job role see how much of your leaders job is to not actually do what technically needs to be done. You might think, oh they don’t do anything they just sit around and don’t know anything, but that is actually their job to actually sit around. It’s not that they’re not doing anything what they’re doing is exactly getting you to do your job in an effective powerful way. Good leaders, you will love them for not doing anything. The bad leaders are the ones where you go, oh they’re not doing anything I’m the one who does all the work. The other one who does all the work, yes, because you are not leading the team yet. Leaders are supposed to not actually do the job. Because if that would be the case, it will all be based on technical know-how. And technical know-how has a limit. 

 

After a point there is no greater technical know-how there’s a greater experience which basically tells you what mistakes you don’t need to do but it’s not new technical know-how. If you know a language encoded in the particular language everybody knows that language it’s all about the quality of the skill that they might have. But a leader of the team not just leader in superiority in the technical know-how but leader of the team is usually the person or should be the person that actually knows how to inspire the team, how to coach the team, actually knows what the team should be doing in times of stress and in times of concern. So there are more people who rile people up and bring them together to create a team to create an atmosphere of high performance. Not necessarily people who are the greatest technical advanced human being in the team that’s not what they are there for.

 

On this particular study you don’t put an age on it they’ve said when people kind of hit their mid-40s and. Oftentimes we hear about this midlife crisis, mid-career crisis, and I dare to suspect that a lot of it happens at that time where you get this technical skill and ability not being able to take you to the next level and you get this stagnation that occurs because you haven’t been coached on how to lead all along the way. That’s one of the greatest things that are missing in the corporate environment right now. People are moving up the ranks without actually being trained for it, without being coached for it. That’s why they start to struggle the moment they go up and they start to get into conflicts. 

 

Jim Rembach:     So when you start looking at—talking about the diversity of the coaches that you’ve had the opportunity to work with, and you start putting in the context of that people moving to that next level of responsibility. I’m also a firm believer that growth doesn’t mean dis-movement doesn’t mean upward, growth happens this way as well. You’re talking about impacting the world and humanity it isn’t necessarily that I’m at the top and being able to coat down on humanity in order to be able to teach but I have to be you amongst them within it, so I see growth in different ways. 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Absolutely. 

 

Jim Rembach:     But when you start talking about being able to get people to effectively move in that direction and looking all the diversity of coaches, where do you find the most success? What type of discipline or what type of area?

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     In coaching or even in training or just as human beings what I’ve found is the more people start to work on themselves. It’s a very diverse field working on themselves. It’s not an easy play. It’s probably one of the most complicated things to do and most ignored thing to do. And that’s the dialogue of our education system. In education system it’s all about technical. It’s all about what’s the technical thing that you need to learn. It’s all about the strategies. It’s the things that we can make sense of, it’s what we teach in school. You can make sense of—you’ll write this or this is the Newton’s law, this is whatever law and those laws make sense so we can teach it and so we work on that and that’s what we teach. But what we do is we train the kids to learn only the technical things. And they feel that the progress in life associated to their technical growth. What we know for sure at this point and this is not just me saying it here but like you quoted a study that you read there are multiple studies that had been done which shows that people who progress in life are people who work on themselves. 

 

There’s a reason why readers are leaders. Those lines are not just hypothetical these are studies that have been done again and again these are questions that have been asked to leaders again and again—top entrepreneurs, top celebrities, top professionals again and again and again. The single biggest attitude that these individuals tend to have is they constantly focus on their personal growth. And as they grow personally they tend to grow academically they tend to grow spiritually they tend to grow career-wise they tend to grow in dimensions that otherwise they didn’t even know they had the bandwidth to be able to grow. Because after all humans are working with humans in some capacity. 

 

Even if you’re working with a software code you’re kind of working to replicate a human nature in some way. The task that human beings do that’s kind of you’re trying to replicate. So you have an understanding of human beings. You have an understanding of emotions. Greater you understand yourself, greater you understand your capabilities greater you understand the outside world. And that’s one of the biggest skills that you can have as a professional, as an entrepreneur for you to be able to go, hey, what is the inner dialogue that I can work on? It’s hard, it’s not easy it looks easy because we always touch the surface and we can say, oh, I know my inner dialogue but that’s not your inner dialogue most of the time it’s a reflection of society that you see on the surface. 

 

Your inner dialogue is way, way, way deep and it’s uncomfortable but it’s important as more and more of that you do. And which is what you do for example Jim, like you help people really figure that dialogue out when you’re coaching them, you’re training them on leadership. Leadership training is personal development that is personal development. People think it’s something different, it’s not it’s the same. You’re talking about communication. You’re talking about understanding of the human being that is personal development. 

 

Jim Rembach:    That is so true. And even when you were talking I started thinking about something that I saw where Jack Ma, the founder of Alibaba, was talking about how our education system is seriously flawed with what you were referring to where we were teaching them how to do this stuff and all this technical stuff when we should actually having even more of the arts even more of the creative side. As he was saying with the way that we’re going a lot of that technical stuff is going to be machine stuff anyway. 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Yeah, because that’s what humanity is. Human humanity is always making that progress. We want to make things easier. The reason why we want things easier is because we want to actually be more creative. We want to be more in follow we want to be more in our bodies we want to be more in the nature so it seemed like for the longest time we wanted to do more but we actually want to do less as human beings. It’s not that we want to sit around and get bored it’s we want to do less of things that we don’t like that’s what I really mean. We don’t want to sit on the desk all day long nobody enjoys that. I have not met one person who says, I love that I don’t get to interact with anyone. Even introverts are not like that. Introverts are like, yep, I will like my desk but I can read a book I can do this I can do that I don’t have to look at my computer all day. Nobody likes that absolutely no one.

 

Jim Rembach:    To me as you were talking I’m like, okay, the world’s coming back around to you Ajit. We need to learn how to be even better humans and then we have been. 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Yeah, absolutely. And we are great humans it’s just that because of all the social noise, it’s called a social comparison theory it’s been research by I think Stanford, where they talk about that we as human beings have start to compare ourselves relative to other people. We have always been like that but now it’s magnified thanks to social media because we’re looking at other people’s lives at all times. So what we do is we draw comparatives and we look at our life in context to somebody else’s life. Instead of looking at our life in context of our life which should be the way because we are a different unique DNA versus anybody else. So why compare to a different DNA when our DNA is completely different, that is the challenge right now that we face as humanity. We are all perfect in our own unique way. It may seem imperfect in comparison but direct comparison to ourselves we are usually very perfect human beings. If we make progress towards what our greatest strengths are and work a little bit on weaknesses as well we would create great progress for our reality. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I can only imagine that with all of the coaches that you’ve worked with and all these different disciplines, even your work at Mind Valley, you’ve been inspired in so many different ways. Like I said it’s one reason why I follow you because of your inspirational message. On the show we like sharing quotes and I’m sure you probably have tons that you love to share. But is there one or two that you can actually share with us?

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     There quite a few like you said. And I usually misquoted so think of it as a paraphrase and usually I don’t really necessarily try to remember who said it because what I love is the essence of things. I think the essence is what is important not necessarily the quote itself. The first essence that I love is, if you think you can if you think you can you’re always right. So basically the decision of you saying, can you do something or can’t you do something? Because it’s not can or can’t that’s not what you’re really evaluating you’re evaluating is your intention to want to do it or not want to do it because you’re always right. If you say you can’t do something it’s because your intention is to not be able to do it. But if you say you can do some that’s your intention. So you play your intention and that will always be right in the larger context of the outcome that you create. 

 

Another one that I love is, you don’t solve a problem by solving the problem you solve a problem by creating a new reality.  Usually people think that, oh, there’s a problem let’s fix the problem. But usually the problem originates from a very different reality that we have in our life. It’s either embodied in us in our ecosystem in our systems in a company and usually tackling the problem is a very temporary solution. Sometimes you need to do that temporary solution but most of the times you actually need to create a new reality that is not in alignment with the old reality that you had that is creating the problems. Does that make sense? 

 

Jim Rembach:      It doesn’t make sense. And it also makes sense in in a business perspective from a customer experience perspective. I think too many times companies focus on and try fixing the problem that a customer may have when they really need to be figuring out a brand new reality for that customer. 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Yeah, brand new reality for that customer. Brand new reality for their company if there’s a repeated problem. That has become a problem it’s probably because there’s something flawed in the company. There’s some process flaw there’s some product flaw there’s some systems flaw there’s some human flaw there is some flaw but you will only be able to figure that flaw out by creating a new reality you won’t be able to figure the flaw any other way. 

 

Jim Rembach:      That’s very true. Okay, so now  looking at where you’ve come from where you are and also even where you’re headed I know there’s humps that you’ve had to get over and we learn from those. Talking about coaching and reflecting upon self and stuff, one of the ways that we do that if we can’t come back on our own history is we have to learn about others. So is there a story that you can share where we can learn?

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Well I think the biggest hump that has happened and tends to come back sometimes even as I go through life is my constant dialogue of self-doubt. Not constant but used to be a constant dialogue of self-doubt and I think that’s a common thing that happens. It is a reflection of not only social- comparison but also of my background. Because I come from not a very abundant background I always doubted if I’m good enough if I’m actually going to be successful. I was a little bit overweight so I didn’t think I was pretty enough or good-looking enough and so on and so forth so I think those were some of the big hurdles that I’ve gotten passed over time. Like constant reprogramming,  constant reprogramming, and really being able to believe in myself and really being able to say that I can be what I—it’s the same quote that I said, you can or you can’t you’re always right to be able to have more dialogues of I can and I believe I have more capabilities than I imagined. If I constantly work towards it and I constantly evaluate it and learn around it I will be able to get past it. 

 

Jim Rembach:    As you were saying that I picked up on something that I find going back to that whole concept of fixing the system versus creating a new reality and that was your word reprogramming. I think too many times we do that self-reflection we try fixing something about ourselves when in fact we should be trying to do the reprogramming of ourselves. When you talk about reprogramming, what does that really mean? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Well reprogramming means we are all a set of beliefs. If you really think about us as human beings we are a set of values and beliefs that’s what we are really like emotionally and spiritually. We have a certain values and we want to live by those values we are either fighting for those values or we are living those values and we have certain beliefs. Now these values and beliefs, values are mostly intrinsic which means that’s your nature like that’s just how you were born that’s your DNA most of the time. Some values are built over time as well. Some of your core, core, core values is just what gives you joy and pleasure and that is a whole different conversation to really find those values, and I’m not going to go there, but to understand that you have values and you have beliefs and that you live by and that’s why you follow a political party that’s why you follow a particular religion that’s why you follow a particular authority figure whatever that is because you have a set of values you have a set of beliefs. Now these set of values and beliefs serve you and sometimes they don’t serve you. The same set of values and same set of beliefs that may serve you at a point in life does not serve you at a different point of life. It’s just how life is. 

 

What happens is you have to be able to constant revisit what these values and beliefs are and if they’re serving you or they’re not serving you. If they’re not serving you because most of our values and beliefs are not nature they’re nurture which means you’ve learned from the world as you progress from your childhood to your adulthood in your job in your relationship. You have created these values because this is a protective mechanism for you something that gives you a stand gives you some kind of protection from the outside world. Like for example, if you believe money is the root of all evil which is a popular belief in a lot of religion if that’s a value or a belief that you operate from that will not serve you in making money because you think it’s the root of all evil. So if that value is one of your core values that belief is one of your core beliefs, guess why you are not going to be able to make progress in your career? Because you would think you will get richer. And as you’ll get richer, you become evil especially if you have a negative connotation to evil too, which everybody does. But at the same point and time, money is not equal to evil, evil people with money is evil. Money is not the root of evil. You can replace that value you can replace that value by saying, money is a magnifier. Meaning, if you’re a good person money will only show more people that you are even better person, which is actually the belief that

I have. Money is a magnifier if I’m a good person. If I have more money all you will see is more good which is why more good people should become rich.  But if you’re a bad person well more people will think you’re bad and that’s okay too, that’s just what it is. If I have a belief that money is a magnifier I’m a good person I don’t mind being rich, I will pursue in a direction of making more money. Now this is of course one of the examples that I’m saying, beliefs and values are spread and sprinkled over all our life and we just have to constantly evaluate and say, hey, is this value serving me? Is this belief serving me? Or is it not? Because one of the biggest reasons you may not make progress is because your values and your beliefs are conflicting to your progress. 

 

Jim Rembach:     I think that’s a very valid point. I think a lot of times once we find—I think that’s where people find discomfort with where they are in a place or career. Like you’re talking about I haven’t quite gotten a grasp on myself and then when I do finally get that I realize what that doesn’t align with who I’m working for no wonder why I can’t stand being here. 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Yeah. That’s true if that’s the case, if you find more and more about yourself. But, hey, listen a lot of people might say, should I not find myself? Because if I find myself I might want to quit my job. The most amazing thing about finding yourself is everything becomes easy. If you feel like you need a job and you need to make this much revenue or this much money while you’re at the job and so forth, it actually becomes easier once yourself for you to be able to create that. As much as it will look hard right now, because you’ll be like, oh, what happens if I’m out of my job or if I’m out of my boss? You want to be out of your job or you might not like your boss. If I am not in alignment with my boss, what will happen? You will find a way to become your own boss. Or you will find a way to replace the boss. You’ll find a way because you are so in tune with yourself. Remember, in your job when you see the confident people, when you see the people confident but not assholes, so you got to be careful, they’re confident people and then they’re assholes. They look the same often but they’re not the same. 

 

Confident people are confident people and sometimes some people who are just not in alignment or assholes also look like confident people. If you look at the confident people, people that you look at and you go, hey, that’s an awesome person that’s a great gal that’s a great guy I love this person and I love their confidence, that’s a confident person most of the time. if you love those people those people are also the people that are full embodiment of their values that’s why they are so confident. Because they’re going, alright, I know exactly who I am I know what I can deliver and I know how to deliver it. So they don’t have a problem progressing in their career, they never have a problem progressing in their career. Look at the confident people they don’t have a problem the reason’s because they are in alignment with themselves. One of the things that you can take away today is if you want to be clearer about your career and if you want to make progress your career, know thyself know yourself more and that will help you. 

 

Jim Rembach:     That’s fantastic. We had talked earlier—you’re starting a family, the work that you’ve been doing and that you’re still yet to do I know you’ve got a lot of goals, but what would be just one of them? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     My common vision for myself and my family, once our son grows up you’ll see if his values is the same but me and my wife definitely align on this, is to help move the needle. Help move the line. Help create a positive shift towards humanity. Move that needle a little bit more. And that’s really the intention that we show up at every single day. Our values that we know as core to both me and my wife is service and love. We want to operate all this from a place of love and we all always operate from a place of service to be able to help humanity to be able to help our friends to be able to help our families and that’s really the place that we operate from. And because of that every goal, every vision, of ourselves is always in alignment with that. If we can make progress towards a positive greater world that’s what we want to do more of. 

 

Jim Rembach:     And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. 

 

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award-winning solution is guaranteed to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with their colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better. 

 

Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion it’s time for the Hump day Hoedown. Okay, Ajit, the Hump day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Ajit Nawalkha, are you ready to hoedown? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     I am absolutely ready. Let’s do it. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Alright. So what do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     I take more learning. 

 

Jim Rembach:     What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Care for people. People matter. 

 

Jim Rembach:     What is one of your secrets that you believe helps you do better in life and in work?

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     I don’t operate from ego. I am an ego-less man. I have less ego. 

 

Jim Rembach:     What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Organization, lots of tools, lots of tech tools. 

 

Jim Rembach:     What would be one book that you’d recommend to our legion, it could be from any genre? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Well right now I recommend my book, Live Big, it’s coming out now. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Okay, Fast Leader legion you can find links to that and another bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/ajit nawalkha, and just do Ajit, you’ll be able to find it. Okay, Ajit, this is my last Hump day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity go back to the age 25. And you could take all the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     I think the piece of knowledge that I will take back with me will be the knowing that I’ll be okay. I think I operated a lot from fear and scarcity when I was younger. I think I could do better if I just knew that I’ll be okay and everything will be fine. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Ajit, thanks for being with us today. How can the Fast Leader Legion connect with you? 

 

Ajit Nawalkha:     Well, get the book. As you get the book you will see various ways to interact with me. You can get the book at livebigthebook.com. As you go there you’ll get a get a copy of the book as you get the copy of the book you’ll find a secret link in there which allows you to be able to get a free program with us and also be able to interact with me directly. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Ajit Nawalkha, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion, honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links, from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already. Head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO 

 

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Doug Sandler - Nice Guys Finish First

173: Doug Sandler: I had no system and that’s the problem

Doug Sandler Show Notes Page

Doug Sandler was hired to be a DJ at a party hundreds of miles from his home. He was feeling on top of his game but within 15-minutes of the four-hour event, he realized why he was really hired sight unseen. He also realized that everything he had done in his career to that point was just about being lucky.

Doug Sandler grew up in Baltimore Maryland with his older brother David, his parents split when he was 2 years old.

He remembers growing up and loving life as a little kid…even though they had no money, they laughed and enjoyed life. His mom has been a huge inspiration in his life. Although he was not close personally with his dad, he was a strong influence in my business life. His life was cut short in his mid-60’s and he still follows the advice that he thinks his dad would be providing even to this day.

Doug has always had a love for the the service aspect of any job. From food service in college to the mortgage business when out of college, real estate, DJ, podcaster, author, blogger, speaker.

Doug Sandler is an entrepreneur and industry leader. His book, Nice Guys Finish First is a #1 ranked Amazon Best Seller.  As a podcast host of The Nice Guys on Business, Doug has interviewed Gary Vaynerchuk, Arianna Huffington from HuffPost, Dan Harris from Good Morning America, Ron Klain, White House Chief of Staff and dozens of celebs. Doug is a nationally recognized speaker, writer, and founder of TurnKey Podcast Company, providing podcast production, editing and launch services.

The legacy Doug wants to leave behind is that nice guys finish first.

He currently lives in the Washington, DC area with his wife Danielle and 2 kids Adam and Rachel.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @djdoug to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet 

“You do have the right, when you are working for another organization to follow what you love.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet

“You can still have a wonderful life working for someone else.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“You can be a nice guy, you can be vulnerable, you can be empathetic and show gratitude without being a doormat.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“Those tapes that are going off in your head telling you once you’re down to stay down, you’ve got to erase those tapes.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“You’ve got to put yourself in a position to win every time.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“It’s not the circumstances that life is going to deliver to you, it’s how you handle the circumstances in your life.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“We’re all dealing with the exact same scenarios, we are all given the same opportunities.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“It’s just a matter of how we respond to the circumstance we are dealt in our life.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“You can say ‘no’ and be a nice guy.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“The negativity is certainly exposed a lot more often than ever now because of social media.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“People give themselves a mental enema almost every day on social media and share the crap that’s going on in their life.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“The good in the world is shared a lot more now.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“That person in customer service now represents the entire brand to the person they’re dealing with.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“Even as a nice guy, I still have negativity in my life.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“Social media and technology make it so easy for us to complain.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“Instead of being so negative and critical of everyone, I challenge you to find something they’re doing right and compliment them.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“When the negative thing happens you’ve just have to remember all of that positivity that’s come back.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“Don’t let that negative action put you in a period of stinkin’ thinkin’.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“So, what do you do to differentiate yourself, it’s all going to be in the service and support.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“Instead of letting life happen to me, you have to make life happen to you.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“Always stay in action, don’t let life happen to you.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

“You’ve got to staying in your zone of genius.” -Doug Sandler Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Doug Sandler was hired to be a DJ at a party hundreds of miles from his home. He was feeling on top of his game but within 15-minutes of the four-hour event, he realized why he was really hired sight unseen. He also realized that everything he had done in his career to that point was just about being lucky.

Advice for others

Keep moving.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Staying in the grove. Stay in your zone of genius.

Best Leadership Advice

Fail fast, and it’s okay to fail.

Secret to Success

Just return your phone calls.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

The microphone.

Recommended Reading

Nice Guys Finish First

Who Moved My Cheese?: An Amazing Way to Deal with Change in Your Work and in Your Life

Contacting Doug Sandler

website: http://www.dougsandler.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/djdoug

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/doug-sandler-1a346649/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

Empathy Mapping

 

Show Transcript: 

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

173: Doug Sandler: I had no system and that’s the problem

 

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

Call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen so go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path e-book now.

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader legion, today I’m excited because I get the opportunity to really have a good discussion about something that’s kind of been bothering me for a long time about being nice but not too nice. Doug Sandler grew up in Baltimore, Maryland with his older brother David. His parents split when he was two years old but Doug remembers growing up and loving life as a little kid even though they had no money they laughed and enjoyed life. His mom has been a huge inspiration in his life. Although he was not personally close to his dad he was a strong influence in his business life. His father was cut short in his mid-60s and he still follows that advice that he thinks his dad would be providing even to this day. 

 

Doug has always had a love for the service aspect of any job from food service in college to the mortgage business when he went out college real, estate, DJ, podcaster, author, blogger and speaker. Doug Sandler is an entrepreneur and an industry leader. His book, Nice Guys Finished First, is a number one ranked Amazon bestseller and has a podcast host of the Nice Guys on Business. Doug has interviewed Gary Vaynerchuk, Arianna Huffington from HuffPost, Dan Harris from Good Morning America, Ron Klain Wine House Chief of Staff and dozens of celebrities. Doug is a nationally recognized speaker, writer and founder of TurnKey Podcast Company providing podcast production, editing and launch services. The legacy Doug wants to leave behind is that nice guys finish first. 

 

He currently lives in the Washington DC area with his wife Danielle and two kids Adam and Rachel. Doug Sandler are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Doug Sandler:   Oh, yeah, let’s do it hump day is here. Come on Jim, let’s do it.

 

Jim Rembach:   I’m glad you’re here. 

 

Doug Sandler:   I’ve never heard a 1,500 word bio read in 32 seconds, so nicely done.

 

Jim Rembach:   I appreciate that. Now what people don’t know is I probably messed it up three or four times and I’m editing it so you hear it clean.

 

Doug Sandler:   Those of you in Jim’s community that are listening to this at one and a half or two X speed, slow it down.

 

Jim Rembach:   I’ll tell you we’re going to have a good time today. Now, I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better.

 

Doug Sandler:   I love the podcasting space. This new media space has been great after reinventing my career probably a handful of years ago I discovered this space and fall in love with it and there’s no better way to make money than from your pajamas. So, I do love it for that reason. 

 

Jim Rembach:   That’s a really interesting point. You and I had the opportunity to talk off mic and we talked about the prior life and how you kind of—I think many of us we should be more aware and mindful and kind of follow the money. A lot of my listeners are actually within organizations and sometimes they have to follow the money for others. But even from an individual perspective and the whole “nice guys” concept for me. When and when you start thinking about—oh! gosh, being too nice and that tipping point to where you become someone who gets walked on. I’ve always kind of struggled with that like how much is too much nice? 

 

Doug Sandler:   Yeah, Can I comment on something that you said just a moment ago first and then I’ll get into how much nice is too much nice. What you said was, a lot of people follow the money and I do agree with that people do follow. Even when they work for organizations they follow other people’s money, I guess, but what I would say is step back because you do have the right when you are working for another organization to follow still what you love. Follow what you love follow the thing that you’re passionate about and that doesn’t mean that you have to be your own person and be an entrepreneur and take all the risk. You can still have a wonderful life working for someone else within their organization. Certainly I’m not conflicting with what you’re saying but I wanted to add a yes and you can still follow what you love to do even when you work for someone else. There’s plenty of people that do that whether it’s an architecture engineer or professionalism or whatever it is that they’re doing.

 

Jim Rembach:   Yeah, I’m glad that you added that. As a matter of fact Laurie Bocklund, on the last episode, actually just talked about that yes and that she learned in her improv class.

 

Doug Sandler:   Oh, yeah, it’s the greatest. And I do feel like instead of saying but the yes end is an easy way to go. I never took improv but a lot of my friends have been through the comedy route so for me it’s very interesting to hear the yes and—and it does make you feel a little bit better when you hear, yeah and let me add this instead of, but, but, and the buts always stopped me dead in my tracks.

 

Jim Rembach:   Well, that’s an interesting point. Okay, so, we’re talking about nice and too nice but I would dare to say if you are nice you’re definitely using the yes end instead of but.

 

Doug Sandler:   Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think that now it becomes my habit not the yes end because I don’t know why those words even came in my head, I don’t think I’ve used those word for weeks or months the yes end. But let me answer the other question which is really cool, I think that as we discuss Nice Guys Finish First, it wasn’t just a book that I wrote but it’d the anti-nice guys finish last mentality. It really is you can be a nice guy you can be vulnerable you can be empathetic and show gratitude and do all of those things that I would consider being nice without being a doormat. It doesn’t mean that you’re a pushover at all it means you understand even more firmly the ground and you’re the security of the ground that you’re standing on allowing yourself to be vulnerable but still be a leader still be strong and not be stepped on.

 

Jim Rembach:   Well, that’s really interesting. As you were talking I started thinking and the word that popped in my head was values. And talking about that firm ground and knowing where you need to stand and that values component because I know for me I feel like I am a nice guy but then I’ve also let certain environments change my demeanor so it wasn’t so nice because I kind of lost sight of what my values were and got caught up in the moments. And of course, as I got older I could reflect and be able to identify those but when I was in it I didn’t necessarily do it all that well. So, how can somebody make sure that they’re always grounded well?

 

Doug Sandler:   I think you just have to understand where you are and who you are. As long as you’re comfortable with you scan those tapes that are going off in your head that tell you to once you’re down to stay down you’ve got to erase those tapes. You’ve got to put yourself in a position to win every time. You’ve got to put yourself in a position it’s not the circumstances that life is going to deliver to you, it’s how you handle the circumstances in your life that’s going to make all the difference in the world. We’re all dealing with the same exact scenarios we all are given the same the same opportunities out there. If you don’t think that you are you’re not putting yourself in a position. A lot of people say, well you’ve been lucky you’ve been able to reinvent your career and look how fast it’s going to—it hasn’t gone fast in my mind it’s so slow it feels like an overnight success in 30 years it takes you a long time to get there. Sure, I could have turned around based upon the circumstances that have happened in my life. My dad passing away in his mid-60s and I’m not having that leadership role in my life any longer. My mom becoming ill at some point everybody in my family around me having cancer and devastation I could look at that and say, my gosh there is so much, I don’t know if your show is explicit but if it’s not there’s so much poop in this world. And I look at that and say, with all this poop around there’s got to be a pony in here somewhere. And I think it’s just a matter of how we respond to the circumstances that are dealt in our life. Part of it is understanding that you can say no, be a nice guy, still say no say it gently say it with empathy say it with compassion and conviction and still have a friend on the other side of that no because they respect where you are because you’ve consistently taken action the same way throughout your entire life. And that really is what the true definition of nice to me. Consistent attitude, consistent behavior and it’s all positive.

 

Jim Rembach:   Thanks for sharing that. I also started thinking talking about that environmental component and proximity and all of those things that we have really to contend with in today’s world. I was talking to somebody the other day and I was like well I’ve actually worked out of a home office with the jobs that I’ve had in order to pass 17 years I’ve been in a home office and so sometimes the whole proximity component not being around certain people and having that negative thing constantly being on your shoulder and pressure to perform and all these things it’s kind of hard to slough those things off and really remain positive. So, when you start thinking about especially in the environment that we are today and thinking about the nice guys philosophy, values and all of that, do you think it’s declining or it’s actually growing?

 

Doug Sandler:   Well, I think because technology is so prevalent nowadays we see so much more than we have ever seen. So, I would love to be able to say I think negativity or positivity or whatever it is I can put a number on it and say it’s more prevalent now. I would tell you that the negativity is certainly exposed a lot more often than ever now because of social media. You have a problem with an organization or a leader within an organization you’re going to see it oftentimes directly on social media it give themselves a mental enema almost every day on social media and share all of the crap that’s going on in their life good bad or indifferent I’m not sure. From other perspective I think that the good in the world is shown a lot more now based upon the way that social media and the technology is out there. When a small act is rewarded or gratitude is shown through social media that’s good as well. I think that nowadays the lead-in towards being nice is definitely stronger now than it’s ever been because people realize how exposed their message and their brand is to the public. It’s so easy to get onto the computer and bash a company or say great things about them. So companies are very aware that it’s no longer Nike let’s say it’s that person in service that is dealing with Nike they now represent the entire Nike brand to that person that they’re dealing with. You better believe that there’s got to be some instructions given to that person in service and support how they have to handle or what they should be doing and how their customer service should be to that one customer.

 

Jim Rembach:   That’s interesting that you say that. For me I try to refrain—and you see it a lot in this industry that I work in which is customer care customer experience where a lot of the influencers, I won’t say a lot, some of the influencers in in the industry and experts in the industry, that word kind of has shaky ground in itself, like to videotape and then therefore on their own social platforms push out the bad experience they had at a restaurant or an airline or a retailer I try not to do that. And even when people ask me to contribute to certain things and they’re like, hey, tell us about your worst experience. And ‘m like, umm I kind of cringe when I want to do that because there’s just so much of that negativity. I would choose to rather focus in on the opportunity that exists. If we have all these things that are going on that are so negative and not customer centric and focused and what about the things that are and how do we actually get to that point? Let’s ditch the bad and focus on the good.

 

Doug Sandler:   Yeah, I mean I would like to say that I’ve never said a negative word on social media but that wouldn’t be the reality. Even as a nice guy I still have negativity that happens in my life and again I want to expose that to those that are close to me if they ask me my opinion on a particular product or I have an issue. On my show all the time and I have 600 episodes of the Nice Guys on business podcast under my belt. We’ve done plenty of negative, hey, listen this happened on this airline or this happened with this brand and we like to see how they respond. You give them an opportunity we invite people on our show all the time we invite people to respond to us on social media all the time. Some big brands tended or choose to ignore it and some big brands—I like to see where people sit because I’m in the world of customer service. For me I love putting somebody to the test and having them pass the test I’ll give them accolades if they pass the test. But I’ll also give them negative words if they don’t pass the test aren’t I important as a customer? Why? Why would my they want to ignore me I’m just a guy that has a product or service that has a—they’ve presented their product or service I have a problem with it, let’s hear what they have to say I’m curious I always curious.

 

Jim Rembach:   As you were talking I started thinking as far as the process by which you go and actually share that feedback. I remember there’s one time where I was sitting next to a guy on a flight he was just enraged the fact that he wasn’t able to be in first class and not only was he not in first class he was at the very, very back of the plane right against the bathroom, needless to say he couldn’t recline his seat and he had noise the entire trip, but I booked my flight late and it’s what I expected. He was just nasty and I’m like, do you think that would ever get you moved up?

 

Doug Sandler:   Yeah, there’s got to be that limit in your head that says, I think this is fair based upon the circumstance how much of this is me just wanting to run my mouth because I feel like I’m being anonymous in my bashing and how much of this is—if that CEO was sitting in front of me would I be okay having that conversation? The test that I run through is I’d love to have a conversation I’d love to invite that person on my show so that they could actually share why it happened this way and how we can try to resolve this from happening again. I don’t know I think it’s a very challenging thing I think that social media and technology makes it so easy for us to complain. On the other side of it, Jim, it makes it so easy for us to be able to say positive things too and we do much more of that than we do of bashing on our show. For me personally I do the same thing I love being able to share great news and great information as well.

 

Jim Rembach:   I think really that’s the key we just need to outdo what the norm is and the norm is that most people complain especially when it comes to customer service and customer experience than they do praise. Someone was talking to the other day about a letter that they received and I was actually kind of shocked and I’m like, people still do that they wrote a letter? I’m like, how old was that person? Sure enough it was someone who is of older age who was more familiar with the writing process. Every once in a while I think we do have to pull out the pen or even a pencil whatever it is and just write a note.

 

Doug Sandler:   We call it catching people in the act of doing something right. And if we can do that a little bit more often I think that you’ll have a lot—that’s all a part of that—if there’s a philosophy behind what nice is it’s showing gratitude and compassion and empathy and showing the gratitude instead of being so negative and being so critical of everyone I challenge you those that are in Jim’s community listening to this right now, when you stop listening to this episode at your office or whoever it is that you talk to next find something that they’re doing right and complement them. It’s so easy to do and it makes—it’s almost like it’s a selfish act because it makes you feel almost better than it makes them feel as well. I always want people to feel better about themselves after having had met me than before they got in my company. 

 

Jim Rembach:   I’m glad you said that. For me I think one of the best pieces of feedback that I received the other day was a video call that I had with somebody and when the call was over with and between their laughing they said I really appreciate because every time I talk to you helped me see things more clearly and it removed the worry that I have off my shoulder. To me that was the best feedback I think I could have ever received. 

 

Doug Sandler:   That’s great, yeah, that’s great. That shows that you’re in the right zone and when something negative happens to a nice guy like you or like me or like many of the tens of thousands millions of nice guys that are out there when the negative thing happens you just have to remember all of that positivity that’s come back and don’t let that negative action put you in a period of stinking thinking just stay your course and keep that nice attitude it’s all about consistency and that’s what people expect from you. 

 

Jim Rembach:   I believe it. Okay, so what we we’re talking about here we’re talking about the nice talking about really improving our emotional intelligence skills and when we want to do that as an organization but that that path a lot of times we need to have beacons of light and one of the things that we look at on the show as a beacon of light are quotes.  Is there a quote or two that you can share?

 

Doug Sandler:   Sure. I don’t remember I think it might have been Henry—I can’t remember who said this, whether you think you can or you can’t you’re right. I’m trying to remember who it was that said that. It’s so true all of the things that we want to accomplish in life whether it’s personal or professional if you think that you can—maybe it was Dale Carnegie, I can’t remember. If you put your head in the right position and you think that you can do it you absolutely will be able to do it. If you’re negative about it and you don’t think that you can do it the same task you’re not going to be able to accomplish it.

 

Jim Rembach:   As you were talking I started thinking about my—and I’ve mentioned him before, my oldest son,  is that he’s more motivated by fear and so a lot of the things that will come out of his mouth are negative and that’s what happens when you kind of got have that fear wiring. I keep telling him I’m like, whatever comes out of your mouth is what you are. He’s like, what do you mean? I said, well, if you talk about negative things you become negative. I said, if you talk about other people in a bad way you become that. Whatever comes out of— he says, that’s just dumb. And I said you’re reinforcing through your head whatever you’re going to end up feeling. And sooner or later maybe it’ll click for him.

 

Doug Sandler:   The quote was a Henry Ford quote, I quickly looked it up and it is a Henry Ford quote. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Good job, the beauty of the Internet at your fingertips. I am reading your bio and you talked about the pivoting you talked about all of those things. To get to where you are today I’m sure there was a lot of humps that you had to get over, can you share a story with us so that we can hopefully get over our own?

 

Doug Sandler:   Sure absolutely. There’s a couple that come to mind and one of them which was really the creation of many of the conscious thought of this nice guys system that I’ve created over the last 30 plus years but really instituted within the last handful of years. I spent the last 30 years as a as a DJ. This this family hired me sight unseen to fly down from D.C. down to New Orleans to do their son’s celebration. I can recall very vividly getting down there they paid my bill they carted me from everywhere my ego was so in the way right now because I felt like they really were engaging my services. Within 50 minutes of this four hour event I remember setting up and they took me to the venue and the guest was like 75 or so adults and fifty or so I would call them kids but they weren’t any kids I’ve ever seen before they were more like monsters. So within 15 minutes of this four hour event they had managed to suck the helium out of every balloon threw pea soup on the walls they were drinking at the bar at 13 years old they lit toilet paper on fire in the bathrooms and this is all within 1/16th of the of the event 15 minutes into this four hour event. And I did what I thought any self-respecting entertainer or DJ would do at the time I put my head down and focused on my job and I started playing music. And of course I was playing music basically to a rowdy room of kids that would not respond no matter what I did. 

 

What I discovered during that pivotal moment in my life was had I actually invested a little bit of time and energy and resources in this client I would have discovered that this was not only the 49th of 50 events of these kids had been to that year through there, let’s call it the bar mitzvah circuit, but no matter what I did they wouldn’t respond positively and my feeling was why were they doing this to me? So, I invested no time, energy, resources in this client they had gone to so many events they didn’t hire me because they thought I was a good entertainer they hired me because I was so far geographically out of their area that there was no way that I possibly would have ever heard of these kids. And so you completely take a shift and you say why didn’t I just ask some important questions? Well, somebody might say, well, why didn’t they tell you? They don’t know what to tell me and what not to tell me I was the professional. So that’s the invest component of my program and actually inspired them to take action come up with a plan A and plan B in case this particular—I knew enough to know that that potentially could happen but it didn’t arm them with any plans. And then I had actually executed a plan I mean I wanted to execute some of those kids but I had actually executed a plan I would have carried out these plans perfectly. For me everything that I did in my in my career so far I was just getting lucky until I created this invest, inspire, and execute system I’d never realized that there was actually a system I could have put in place for that.

 

Jim Rembach:   I love that story that’s pretty good. They actually have to go outside of their geographic region, right?

 

Doug Sandler:   Right. Totally right.

 

Jim Rembach:   Listening to that I kind of started thinking that, well, part of that is just wisdom. You have to go through the experience in order to know that you needed to come up with the system so that it didn’t happen again. 

 

Doug Sandler:   Well, yeah, or you’re a guy that’s smart enough as I wasn’t at the time, and yes probably things going on all around me right now to know that I should be plugging into a system I had no system and that’s the problem. There was no consistent effort there was no phone calls there was no returns of voicemails there was it was like I would just do whatever I thought I wanted to do in order to get the next job I was so focused on the transaction and not focused on the relationship that it wasn’t good.

 

Jim Rembach:   That kind of—is where a lot of organizations start in addition to that they continue to do that way and then they ultimately become one of those organizations that becomes affected because somebody disrupted them.

 

Doug Sandler:   When your services begin to be a commodity because all you’re doing is going through the same action that everybody else is going through and the proof in the pudding for that business, for my entertainment my DJ business, is that I outlasted. I was 30 years into the business I’ve just recently within the last handful of years reinvented myself and what’s so great about it is that the majority of my competition or guys in their 20s and 30s–I’m 15 or 20 years older than them and five to ten times more expensive than many of those guys that are in maybe three to ten times expensive more than many of those guys that are in my market. I know it is not coincidence it’s understanding what customer service means it’s understanding how to invest that time and energy and your client and resources in your client understanding how to execute a plan. It’s not about playing music at a four-hour event it’s the year and a half that leads up to that event where you can build a relationship that’s the critical component of that business. 

 

Jim Rembach:   That’s interesting you to say that, I started thinking about differentiation you can choose how to differentiate because the fact is you need to do that how you are going to go about doing that. If you differentiate by product that’s a risky proposition these days. When you start talking about the fact that anybody can come and knock you out anywhere around the globe to me the smart choice is to differentiate on the entire experience component.

 

Doug Sandler:   Well, you have to. When you have two people that you’re never going to compare exactly apples to apples especially in the entertainment world if you have a commodity, a light bulb is a light bulb, so what do you do to differentiate yourself from someone that wants to buy from you? It’s all going to be in the service and the support. In my particular case, yeah, we still have to be able to do a great job on event day but the challenge is most people think it is about job day it’s about the celebration. Let me give you an example, two years before an event I’ve met with a guy and his wife and they’re designing this wonderful celebration. The host name is Jim and all the way through the process I’m calling the guy Jim and I know it’s Jim, and I know it I own that name. I get to event day and I’m introducing them and I say, welcome to the stage John, okay, so I’ve screwed that up.  On Monday morning, my agent is not going to get a call that says, he didn’t even know my freakin’ name. Because it was an honest mistake and we got it and I built a relationship. Now let’s take a slightly different track, I don’t call this guy and I’ll talk to Jim I don’t know anything about Jim on event day I just show up and I’m about to do Jim and Jan’s job. They’re about to be introduced and I say welcome to the stage John. On Monday morning my agent is going to get a phone call saying, you didn’t even take the time to learn my name. Okay, honest error, honest thing happened same exact end result except the different relationship was built on the first scenario as opposed to the second scenario. I’m going to swim through that first scenario, I’m going to sing on that second scenario.

 

Jim Rembach:   That’s true. You’ve got to invest in it, right? When I start thinking about where you’ve come and where you are I would suspect that even with a lot of the organizations that you’re working with a lot of individuals that you’re focusing in on, the family, you’ve got a lot of  things that you can look at from a goal perspective. If there was one that you had to choose from what would it be?

 

Doug Sandler:   I would say one of the goals is set goals. I think one of the critical opponents of this reinvention that I went through in 2013 when I discovered that I was not going to be a DJ until I was in my 70s and I couldn’t imagine spending my time doing the cha-cha slide in the cupid shuffle at 65   years old on the dance floor I needed to set a goal and I needed to take action. Instead of letting life happen to me you have to make life happen to you I set not only a practical goal of where I’m heading with my life but I set out a plan. This is what I wanted to do and it’s a jumbled mess along the way looking back but still this whole reinvention has been wonderful. So, I would say put yourself in a position where you do set some goals for where you want to go. Examine the goals frequently readjust if you need to and keep moving forward but always stay in action and just don’t let life happen to you because if it does it’s never going to take you in the path that you wanted to. 

 

Jim Rembach:   That’s so true. And the Fast Leader legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotion. So move onward and upward faster by gaining significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey and personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you’ll learn how to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improve customer loyalty and reduce your cost to operate. Get over your emotional hump now by going to empathymapping.com to learn more. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Alright, here we go Fast Leader legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Michael, the Hump day hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Doug Sandler, are you ready to hoedown? 

 

Doug Sandler:   Okay, let’s go. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today? 

 

Doug Sandler:   Staying in the groove. You just got to stay in your zone of genius. Once you start slipping out of that you become less effective much less productive and you slow yourself down. So stay in your zone of genius.

 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? 

 

Doug Sandler:   Fail fast. It’s okay to fail. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Doug Sandler:   This is an easy one, just return your phone calls it’s amazing how many people don’t return their phone calls.

 

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Doug Sandler:   Let’s see, I’m going to say the microphone. Because I’m in a podcast environment so I would say that tool I could not deal without. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners and it could be from any genre, and of course, we’re going to put a link to, Nice Guys Finished First on your show notes page as well. 

 

Doug Sandler:   Thanks Jim, I always promote this book because I think it’s so wonderful with its parable, the way that it’s written, Who Moved my Cheese, by Spencer Johnson. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/dougsandler. Okay, Doug, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity go back to the age of 25. And you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

 

Doug Sandler:   I’d say that it would be more of a piece of advice it’s, keep moving. You want   to keep moving you can’t stay still nothing ever stays the same you’re constantly evolving and as long as you keep moving make decisions never have a doubt about the decisions you made just keep moving forward that would be any advice that I would give myself at 25. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Doug it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you?

 

Doug Sandler:   The best way to reach me is just through my website which is dougsandler.com. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Doug Sandler, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Jim Rembach:   Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO 

 

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