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146: Steven Stein: I can fade out a bit

Steven Stein Show Notes Page

Steven Stein started a small business with his wife. He was responsible for doing many of the jobs necessary to grow the company. But to grow, Steven had to learn a valuable lesson. He did and today they employ more than 170 people throughout the world and he’s become a leading expert on psychological assessments and emotional intelligence.

Dr. Steven Stein was born and raised in Toronto, Canada. He grew up in a middle class, intact family with his older brother Howard.

Growing up, Steven’s father was the owner of a local pub/bar where he had to manage all kinds of characters, large and small, drunk and sober. Steven was always impressed by how his father, a short, bald guy, was able, using words, to manage the most unruly of characters. He treated everyone fairly and people seemed to appreciate that. Many difficult situations were diffused. This piqued Steven’s interest in psychology. This experience, along with watching the Bob Newhart Show, led him to a career in psychology.

Steven started out as a regular clinical psychologist working with difficult adolescents in a major mental health center. But he found that many of the tough kids he dealt with didn’t like being psychologically tested as part of their treatment. Around that time, 2 other Steve’s in California invented something called a microcomputer at a place called Apple. Dr. Steve wanted to see if putting the psych tests on one of these new computers would make a difference. It did and the rest is history. Dr. Steve decided to set up a company and publish psych tests on computer and in the old-fashioned way.

The tools his company has developed has helped millions of kids and adults get proper treatment for ADHD, autism, and other child disorders. His company has helped hundreds of thousands of offenders get appropriate levels of service in the justice system. His workplace tools, such as the Emotional Quotient Inventory 2.0, has helped millions of people at work improve their performance, learn about their strengths and weaknesses, and become better leaders.

Dr. Stein is the author of 5 books and his latest release is The EQ Leader Instilling Passion, Creating Shared Goals, and Building Meaningful Organizations through Emotional Intelligence.

He currently lives in Toronto, Canada with his wife Rodeen. He also has two daughters and two wonderful grandchildren.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @DrStevenStein to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“What’s the problem in the world today that we can’t get the kinds of leaders we want?” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“Some people mis-equate leadership, they think it’s power.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“We have to start off by being self-aware.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“It’s all about practicing, you’ve got to be out in the real world.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“If people see through you, you’re not going to be an effective leader.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“High performing leaders want to help others succeed.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“You have to be willing to take risks and try new things.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“We have to connect at a quicker pace than ever before.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“You’ve got to look at how you’re approaching the people around you.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“It’s hard to grow if you need to be in control of everything.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“Get the right people, in the right place, at the right time, and nurture them.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“Listen, listen, and listen some more.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

“Really understand yourself and what your needs and strengths are.” -Steven Stein Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Advice for others

Really understand your needs, strengths and weaknesses are.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

I don’t have enough time to do the things I want to do.

Best Leadership Advice

Listen, listen, and listen some more.

Secret to Success

I’ve learned to be patient and listen to other people.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

My ability to listen to other people and feedback what I think makes sense with what I’ve learned and experienced back to them.

Contacting Steven Stein

Website: http://www.stevenstein.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drstevenstein/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrStevenStein

Resources and Show Mentions

Developing a Better Place to Work

Increase Employee Engagement and Workplace Culture

Empathy Mapping

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

Show Transcript:

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

146: Steven Stein: I can fade out a bit

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader podcast where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotions. So move onward and upward faster by gaining significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey and personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you’ll learn how to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improve customer loyalty and reduce your cost to operate. Get over your emotional hump now by going to empathymapping.com to learn more.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader Legion, today I’m so excited because I actually have one of my mentors on the show today and believe it or not he wasn’t even aware of it. Steven Stein was born and raised in Toronto, Canada. Steven grew up in a middle-class intact family with his older brother Howard. Growing up Stephen’s father was the owner of a local bar where he had to manage all kinds of characters large and small, drunk and sober. Steven was always impressed by his father, a short bald guy, was able using words to manage the most unruly of characters. He treated everyone fairly and people seemed to appreciate that many difficult situations were diffused, this piqued Steven’s interest in psychology. This experience along with watching the Bob Newhart show led him to a career in psychology. Stephen started out as a regular clinical psychologist working with difficult adolescents in a major mental health center but he found that many of the tough kids he dealt with didn’t like being psychologically tested as part of their treatment. Around that time two other STI’s in California invented something called the micro-computer at a place called Apple. Dr. Steve wanted to see if putting the psyche tests on one of these new computers would make a difference and it did and the rest is history.

Dr. Steve decided to set up a company and publish psych tests on a computer and in the old-fashioned way. The tools his company has developed has helped millions of kids and adults get proper treatment for ADHD, autism and other child disorders. This company has helped hundreds of thousands of offenders get appropriate levels of service in the justice system. His workplace tools such as the emotional quotient inventory 2.0 has helped millions of people at work improved their performance, learn about their strengths and weaknesses and become better leaders. He is the author of five books including his latest being the, EQ leader. Dr. Stein currently lives with wife Rodeen in Toronto, Canada and he has two daughters and two wonderful grandchildren. Dr. Stephen Stein, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Dr. Steven Stein: I’m ready to help you get over the hump Jim.

Jim Rembach: I’m glad you’re here. I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Dr. Steven Stein: Well one of my current passions as you probably know is the whole leadership enterprise. For the last couple of years I’ve really been focused on trying to understand leadership, what makes a good leader, what makes a bad leader and what’s the problem in the world today that we can’t get the kinds of leaders that we want.

Jim Rembach: I think you bring up a really good point, why can’t we get this. One of the reasons, I’ve shared this on other episodes that I myself became certified in emotional intelligence through your company, MHS, and it is because of the wealth of empirical evidence associated into the things that help people to become more emotionally intelligent and then therefore become a better leader. The data is all over the place and it’s pretty concrete we shouldn’t even be debating this anymore as far as what helps people to become a better leader but yet we struggled like crazy. Why is that?

Dr. Steven Stein: It’s hard to understand I guess some people misequate leadership they think it’s power or they think it’s prestige. All kind of narcissistic reasons behind why they want to become leaders and unfortunately there are enough people who get sucked in by that and follow those people or at least get those people into positions of power. Then we look around us and say, oh my god what happened?

Jim Rembach: When we start thinking about the societal influences and when we start thinking about the pressures and the things that we know about how all of that can actually impact our IQ when we’re trying to focus on something or we’re under great pressure our IQ drops. Well, we know our EQ is probably going to drop along with it if we don’t have the right behaviors and practices in place. One thing I do like about your tool is that, hey I can at least identify where I have opportunities to get better and learn more. But still doesn’t it come down to practicing?

Dr. Steven Stein: Absolutely. You’re quite right the first step is really understanding. We often go into training or different kinds of development programs just starting from anywhere but the fact is we all have a certain amount of each of these variables or factors that we measured emotional intelligence. We have to start off by being self-aware we have to know what our own strengths and weaknesses are once we come to that we have a good understanding of where we stand then you’re absolutely right it’s all about practicing. It’s not the kind of thing you just read a book or get a lecture in school about you’ve got to go out and do you got to behave you got to try empathizing you got to try developing your interpersonal skills you got to be out in the real world doing these things.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s a good point. There was, I guess, a roundtable discussion and I was part of a group and people started talking about the things that they were doing in order to make themselves more aware and try to be more mindful but when I started hearing about all these things for me it’s like, okay, every single thing that people were talking about was really at arm’s length. Okay, I watch videos, I read books but to me it really has to be experiential I have to touch it, I have to smell it and I have to really be next to it instead of seeing it from far away.

Dr. Steven Stein: Absolutely, it’s all about that direct experience. When we were kids that’s all we knew, right? When we would play sports, where I came from we played hockey and maybe baseball and when we had an altercation or some kind of issue we had to get out there and sort it out person to person in front of each other and that’s how we learn how to deal with people and manage other people, that doesn’t happen as much today with kids.

Jim Rembach: That’s a really good point. For me growing up in south side Chicago the way that we often settle things at that young age because we couldn’t necessarily communicate effectively was with our

Fists and today it’s like, no they’re not allowed to fight. But I think for me I know many, many times where I would get into an altercation I’d get my nose bloodied or my lips split or I’d do it to somebody else and the next day we’re out having a great time together.

Dr. Steven Stein: And you knew it was something you didn’t want to do again. Once you experience that you say, well wait a minute, are there ways we can avoid this? Or are there alternative we can get along? And it’s a learning experience.

Jim Rembach: When I started looking at the book, your latest book, EQ Leader, for me of course, I’m aware of the 15 components associated with the EQI 2.0 model, I think you were kind of really trying to make that that jump to the next level as far as applying it. And you talked about four pillars of VI that people really need to cultivate and try to improve, what are those?

Dr. Steven Stein: So the four pillars we learn from, and it’s basically research-based, looking at thousands of leaders around the world, so this is pretty international work that we’ve done, so the four pillars the first one we call authenticity which means you have to be believable, you have to be honest, you have to be truthful. If people see through you if they think you’re faking it or putting them on you’re not going to be an effective leader you’re eliminated right off the bat. The second thing we found that differentiated the really high-performing leaders was their ability to coach to help others. They really want other people who work with them to succeed they’re not out to show that they’re powerful or important they’re there to help others and they see that everyone’s success is part of their success. So, the ability to coach making sure people have what they need in terms of the physical skills and the other skills. The third area we call, insight. Insight is really the ability to have establish a purpose, like why are we here? Why are we doing the work that we’re doing? And your ability to communicate that purpose in a meaningful way so that everybody gets on board and everybody knows what we stand for and in some way we’re bettering the world. The fourth and final one that differentiated the really high-performing leaders was innovation. You have to be willing to take risks you, you have to be willing to try new things to sort of get out of the box. Those leaders were the ones who are outstanding in terms of their ability to perform and engage people who work with them.

Jim Rembach: When I start looking at these four pillars I started thinking about having individuals as part of an organization and creating a more emotionally intelligent organization because it can’t just be about me, even if I’m the only one working on it everybody has to do this in concert with one another otherwise we’re not making any beautiful music if you want to say it that way.

Dr. Steven Stein: Absolutely, good example.

Jim Rembach: Then when I also start thinking about the rapid pace of change and the way things are just flipping over so quickly and the risks associated with that, how much more has emotional intelligence become important to an organization than it was say 15 20 years ago when things weren’t changing as quickly?

Dr. Steven Stein: It’s extremely important because we have to connect at a quicker pace as well and have to evaluate—are you with me or you’re not going to be with me? We have to have that ability to connect with people, evaluate those people and decide what your next step is and use to have more time to do that because I knew you were going to stay with the company for x amount of time and I have a lot of time to decide whether you’re going to make it or not but that isn’t the way it works.

Jim Rembach: For you when you mentioned something about the international type of a view of this and potentially impact and effect that it can have but oftentimes we do hear a little bit about cultures and the way that they may take risks where it’s important for them to see and have the understanding of what others are doing before they actually take a particular initiative. How are the variances actually playing out from a global perspective more so than just within my own area say, North America?

Dr. Steven Stein: This is a fair bit of global variability in some of these factors, risk taking is one that’s really interesting for example. When I was in China people really resonate into that they’re now getting to the point where they’re being more explorative willing to take risks and try new things. When I was in Dubai and Qatar it was the total opposite people said to me, wait a minute don’t talk to us about risk in trying we don’t believe in trying new things we wait for other people to try it and we wait until they fail. Not as much in Dubai is much more risk-taking than Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for example where they were pretty averse to taking risks and trying anything different or new in the audience that I met with there. But you do see this variation around the world and one of the things we documented in the book is some of these cultural variations on some of these factors around the world to be aware of them really helps you work in those cultures.

Jim Rembach: Okay, we talked about a difference between awareness and practical application. If I’m someone, let’s just say from North America, how am I going to be a more effective leader in a global organization? This is more important than it ever has been before especially the people that I hang around with who are in customer care and customer experience and they’re looking at that from a global perspective and I need to get everybody as part of the organization to help become more customer centric. What are some of the things that I need to do differently more so than just be aware of?

Dr. Steven Stein: Okay, so one of the things—well, we have to start with awareness. One of the things you have to be aware of is that there are certain things that are consistent throughout its cultures and there are certain things that are culturally specific. There are three things in organizations that traverse the world that that every organization has to have. First one is decision making. We have to make a decision and we have to carry it out doesn’t matter what culture you’re from that’s part of the organization. The second one has to do with interpersonal skills. You’ve got to be with me you got to be on my side whether you’re in China, South America or everywhere we’re not together it’s not going to work. The third one is a level of motivation—that we really want to get this done we want to succeed. Those three things, those three factors are universal in every country we’ve looked at what varies is the way in which you carry that out. Let’s say you and I want to get something done, we have to get whatever it is—it’s to serve the customer we have to be whatever. How are going to do that? One of your boss I could be assertive with you. How assertive? If I’m going to be. If I’m from Mexico, I’m going to be really assertive I’m going to yell at you really get you to do it. If I’m from Malaysia, I’m not going to be quite as brash about it I’ve going to be moderate how I’m going to get you to do this. I’m going to be nice to you first sort of work up with you and then get you to carry out the behaviors. So what we’ve documented is while the prime factors are pretty basic across the world the way in which you carry them out differs. Assertiveness differs country by country and we’ve documented the level of some assertiveness among business people in countries around the world. Being sensitive to that helps you tune like you mentioned, an orchestra before, helps you tune the way that you will get things done within that organization.

Jim Rembach: That’s priceless information right there. One of the things that I always talk to people about that are trying to affect and impact change whether it’s up or down or sideways in the organization is I tell them and said, you know what you need to actually start putting together a dossier on individuals and knowing how you need to go about do those things in order to get things done. Some people I can be more assertive with then I can push others I can’t do that with you have to be the adaptive one and not expect them the ones to adapt to you.

Dr. Steven Stein: Right. There are organizations I visited, one very large organization in Mexico for example, where they actually had the person’s EQI profile their three strengths and three challenges on their personnel file so when they work with that person did their performance reviews exactly what you’re saying they knew how to approach that individual and they knew the areas they were working on the challenges they had whether it was being more self-aware know how you are when you affect other people whether they’re not being assertive enough, whatever it was they were able to relate on that level with each employee.

Jim Rembach: That’s priceless. Another thing that’s priceless especially on the Fast Leaders show is some of the quotes that some of our guests bring to the table because they help point us in the right direction and made me help us a little bit more mindful and give us more energy. I know with your wealth and experience you probably have literally thousands that you’ve come across. Is there one or two that kind of stands out for you that you can share?

Dr. Steven Stein: What are two quotes? Boy, I haven’t think of that. There’s the, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The main things I believe in business is fairness. You get back what you give and I think that’s kind of an important aspect of it. As leaders, many leaders wonder why people aren’t engaged. Or why this doesn’t happen? Or things aren’t happening the way they want to? Well, you got to look at yourself you’ve got to be inward bound and looking at how you are approaching the people around you to me that’s a big important aspect of leadership and something you can maybe quote on a leadership. You get what you give in terms of your ability to reach others.

Jim Rembach: That’s one of the things I share with my kids all the time especially when they’re being nasty, I’m like, do you want to be loved and feel it? Then quit being nasty because you got to give love to get it. Okay, when I start thinking about what you’ve been able to do with MHS and I started thinking about having to get over a whole lot of different humps as well as—just from a personal perspective we have to go over them too, but they kind of help us be where we are today because now they teach us a lot. Is there a story that you can share when you’ve had to get over the hump?

Dr. Steven Stein: We had over many humps. MHS I guess 36 years old at this point. And we started in our basement, my wife and I, doing this kind of as a hobby but we set it up as a company. And it continue to grow and the kind of humps you get some of the usual humps in terms of financing, finding customers and skill but I think one of the humps as evolve and we’ve evolved, and we now employ 170 people I’m told by my HR people, so we’ve evolved pretty good, we have offices in Europe and the US and Canada we’ve expanded a lot but to evolve is to understand where you are as a leader and what your role is as a leader. Many entrepreneurs people who start companies have a difficult time letting go they like to control they like to be in charge of everything and I find that it’s hard to grow or be successful if you’re that kind of a leader. What was important for me as a leader is to learn how to let go of certain areas and to learn how to generally hire people who are smarter than me to do things. If you’ve met some of my senior staff you’d know exactly what I’m talking about. I said this—we’re in a meeting of CEO’s one of the CEO groups that I had some of my senior people there and I did an introduction or whatever but then had them present and by the end of it all these CEO’s came up to me says, yeah I see what you mean you got some really smart people working for you. I said, that’s right and I can kind of fade out a bit. So that’s kind of one of the big humps in terms of making a business grow and making it successful—to really get the right people in the right place at the right time and nurture those people.

Jim Rembach: Well, I know when I started thinking about emotional intelligence and I’ve been carrying this banner for a couple years now and actually when I stop and think about it I was carrying it a lot longer just didn’t have the certification of MHS behind me and so I still talking about what we were talking about a moment ago—yes, there’s a lot of work to do, yes we keep wanting better leaders and there’s a huge opportunity there but when I start thinking about all the goals and all the things that you have on your plate along with that one, what’s one of them?

Dr. Steven Stein: One of my big goal is to see emotional intelligence integrated in so many areas of our life. Lately I’ve been doing a lot of work in the area of entertainment and I’m about to do some work in the sports world so those are two areas that I personally want to get involved in use of emotional intelligence. But I also want to see it in the mainstream areas that we started with which is in the corporate world, leadership, all those kinds of things. You have a lot of people working in those areas right now and for me I’m having a lot of fun in sports and entertainment.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that improves the empathy and emotional intelligence skills in everyone. It provides a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement and provides integrated activities that will improve the leadership and collaboration skills in everyone. This award-winning solution is guaranteed to create motivated, productive and higher performing employees that have great working relationships with their colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit beyondmorale.com/better.

Jim Rembach: Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion, it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Steven, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster, Dr. Steven Stein are you ready to hoedown?

Dr. Steven Stein: I’m ready to hoedown.

Jim Rembach: Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Dr. Steven Stein: I’m being held back because I don’t have enough time to do all the things I want to do.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Dr. Steven Stein: Best leadership advice I’ve received is to listen, listen and then listen some more.

Jim Rembach: What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Dr. Steven Stein: I’ve learned to be patient and to listen to other people and to use the information that I believe.

Jim Rembach: What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Dr. Steven Stein: Oh, my—again to listen to other people and feedback what I think makes sense in terms of what I’ve learned in my experience to them.

Jim Rembach: What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners, it could be from any genre, and of course we’ll put a link on your show notes page to the EQ Leader

Dr. Steven Stein: Other than the EQ edge one of the books I have always loved was, From Good to Great by Jim Collins.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Steven Stein. Okay, Dr. Stein, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Dr. Steven Stein: Well, the skill—if emotional intelligence is one skill excellent I would take but that’s multiple skills and I had to pick from those skills, which one would I take? That is such a hard question, probably the self-awareness one to really understand myself and what my needs are what my strengths and weaknesses are if I understood that when I was25 I probably would have developed a lot more quickly in the areas that I needed to develop.

Jim Rembach: Dr. Stein, it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Dr. Steven Stein: Sure absolutely Jim, it’s been great to be with you, they could find me at drstevenstein.com or at the mhs.com website.

Jim Rembach: Dr. Steven Stein thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

END OF AUDIO

[/expand]

Jeff McManus - Growing Weeders into Leaders

145: Jeff McManus: I had to start thinking what they wanted

Jeff McManus Show Notes Page

Jeff McManus started a new job in a new town and was trying to understand and learn everything. One night while driving home after his night class, Jeff wrecked his car after falling asleep at the wheel. In the hospital, he realized things needed to change. That’s when Jeff came to realize that he must totally shift his thinking. That’s when he enabled himself to move onward and upward faster.

Jeff was born and raised in the suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia, in Douglasville, Georgia. He was the youngest of 3. His older brother Craig McManus own his own landscaping company in Douglasville, Ga. And his sister, Janet Russell flies with Delta, now for over 30 years.

Jeff’s Dad always gave his siblings and him the opportunity to work, especially on Saturdays. There were no such things as playing little league sports. They worked and learned the value of being honest, dependable and the pride of ownership. Many times, the work involved landscaping, driving tractors and doing things outside. After growing up doing this work, Jeff had no desire to do landscaping. But college and Dr. Ponder at Auburn University Horticulture Department showed him there were other occupations that suited him while using his experience and knowledge.

After Auburn, Jeff was employed by a large landscape contractor in Florida and worked at the Grand Cypress Resort Property in Orlando. There he learned to have an eye for detail and became a student of how to grow tropical plants and motivate people. He was recruited to work in N. Miami at the beautiful Turnberry Isle Resort in landscaping and work there for 11 years. It was at Turnberry he had become a better leader of himself and others. In 2000 he came to work at Ole Miss, a.k.a the University of Mississippi. Today he serves as the Dir. Of Landscape, Airport and Golf Services.

Every day is about giving back and growing. Jeff likes to grow plants, grow people and grow ideas. Investing in growing leaders is a strong calling in his life. And is the author of Growing Weeders Into Leaders: Leadership Lessons from the Ground Up.

Jeff lives in Oxford, Mississippi and is married to Suzanne McManus for 23 years. They have 4 sons, Samuel, Nathan, Joshua and Mark. 3 in college and one in the 11th grade.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @JeffMcManus to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“Get people to think beyond a menial task to something more meaningful.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“If you don’t love what you do, let’s find what you do love.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“Don’t think about everyday as a Monday.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“Goals have got to be something you can put your hands around.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“You’re tending to the garden of people.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“Growing the culture was more important than the results.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“Investing in our people is like preventative maintenance.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“There’s a lot of pride and ownership that comes from developing people’s mindset.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“When you find your passion, that’s where I want to be.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

“Become a student of learning, you’ll be able to equip yourself.” -Jeff McManus Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Advice for others

Become a student of learning. Learn, listen and grow.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Mental barriers.

Best Leadership Advice

Take an inventory, work your inventory.

Secret to Success

Investing in others.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

Reading others

Contacting Jeff McManus

Website: http://jeffmcmanusspeaking.com/

email: jeff [at] jeffmcmanus.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-mcmanus/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JeffMcManus

Resources and Show Mentions

Developing a Better Place to Work

Increase Employee Engagement and Workplace Culture

Empathy Mapping

Show Transcript:

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

145: Jeff McManus: I had to start thinking what they wanted

Intro Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader Legion, today I’m excited because I get the opportunity to talk to somebody who really understands the patience and the care that’s required in order to develop stronger leaders.

Jeff McManus was born and raised in the suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia in Douglasville, Georgia. He was the youngest of three. His older brother Craig owns his own landscaping company in Douglasville, Georgia and his sister Jeanette Russell flies with Delta now for over 30 years. Just dad always gave his siblings and him the opportunity to work especially on Saturdays there were no such things as playing Little League sports they worked and learned the value of being honest, dependable and the pride of ownership many times the work involved landscaping, driving tractors and doing things outside. After growing up doing this work, Jeff had no desire to do landscaping but college and Dr. Ponder at Auburn University Horticulture Dept. showed him there were other occupations that suited him while using his experience and knowledge. After Auburn, Jeff was employed by a large landscape contractor in Florida and worked at the Grand Cyprus Resort property in Orlando where he learned to have an eye for detail and become a student of how to grow tropical plants and motivate people.

He was recruited to work in North Miami at the beautiful Turnberry Owl Resort in landscaping and worked there for almost 11 years. It was at Turnberry he became a better leader of himself and others. In 2000 he came to work at Ole Miss the University of Mississippi. Today he serves as the director of landscape, airport and golf services. Every day is about getting back and growing, Jeff likes to grow plants, grow people and grow ideas. Investing and growing leaders is a strong calling in his life. Jeff currently lives in Oxford Mississippi and is married to Suzanne for 23 years. They have four sons Samuel, Nathan, Joshua and Mark, three in college and one in the 11th grade. Jeff McManus, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Jeff McManus: Whoo-hoo, I’m ready.

Jim Rembach: I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Jeff McManus: Well, I love to grow things. I love growing plants but I’ll really love growing people who grow plants and I love to grow ideas. I love to see people go beyond the barriers that they have already set in their mind and think of their own limitations.

Jim Rembach: I had the opportunity to look through your new book, Growing Weeders Into Lleaders—Leadership Lessons from the Ground Level and I really enjoyed one time when you were talking about a situation where you had met up with the Chancellor of Ole Miss and that was Dr. Robert Khayat. And you talked about a question that you had asked him about vision and getting people to go along with it and he gave you four basic steps that you need to follow. You said, know who you are know who you want to be get buy-in from everyone and allow for honest and open feedback and disagreement at any time. And he also added something about setting goals and he said, don’t set small goals and don’t get caught up in feeling sorry for yourself and so many people do. So, obviously that’s made a huge impact on you. But when you start thinking about actually having Weeders and turning them into leaders, how does all that fit?

Jeff McManus: Well, it’s the mindset of what are we here for? And it’s to get people to think beyond just a menial task of maybe trimming shrubs or whatever the task is in anybody’s occupation it ties to something bigger and more meaningful. My job as a leader is to connect those dots to help them see the bigger picture to realize they have purpose and to grow that passion for what they’re doing and so that they’re tremendously effective and do that with excellence. So, I like to remind people especially when I work in here is if you don’t love what you do let’s find what you do love so that you can enjoy every day and not dread Mondays. Don’t think about every day is a Monday and oh my goodness I’ve only got 30 years until I can retire and enjoy what you’re doing, that’s the whole mindset of getting people, maybe over the hump mentally, they really love what they’re doing.

Jim Rembach: As you were saying that I started thinking about maybe situations where people get goals or the thought of goals quite confused because the way that you explained it was quite different than I think the way that most people kind of execute on goals. I was reading a story talking about female leaders versus male leaders and they were talking specifically about goal-setting. And they were saying how men often have a tendency to create goals that are just too far out there. People talk about—challenge people and give them a stretch goal. And they were saying that, men kind of push things so far that it becomes a situation where it undermines their ability to get people to move forward or like there is no way we’re going to get there. They say females are a little bit more realistic in their goal-setting and that often times they have people that they could carry along with them to a much greater rate and faster degree and they get more accomplished because they are unrealistic with their goal-setting.

Jeff McManus: That’s true. We have some goals inside that we’re trying to accomplish. We have daily goals that we’re trying to do and seasonal goals, monthly goals all here in our organization but goals have got to be something you can put your hands around something you can see something you can put a checkmark by but that vision, that vision may not ever fully come about. And so what our vision statement is cultivating greatness and what we’re doing is creating this beautiful campus so that when students come they know this where they want to be they want to grow here they want to develop here and then they’re going to go on and cure cancer they’re going to on and change the world they’re going to make this place better. We’re cultivating, growing it so that they can launch so to speak off this pad and do great things and we’re a small part of that. That’s the bigger vision of what we do.

Jim Rembach: There was also one thing that I read in the book to me that was just kind of totally hit home. It talked about how a pecan tree takes six to eight years for it to actually bear its fruit or the nut and you have to really think about that when you’re wanting to develop and grow your people. I think the really important point that hits home is that this isn’t something where I’m dealing with annuals, is it?

Jeff McManus: No. I mean this is something you’re going to deal with for the long term it’s nurturing, it’s watering and it’s growing t’s just like growing plants and you got to do that with people and ideas. You’re always working it you’re tending the garden of people, you’re tending the garden of ideas and you’re really adding to that. If you’re not the one out there tending to it then things are going to get lost, weeds are going to take over and nature’s going to reclaim itself to chaos and it’s going to have an intentional plan.

Jim Rembach: When I start thinking about taking the weeders and growing them into leaders, I also started thinking about a lot of folks that you may have that you’re trying to nurture and thinking about it from a long-term perspective and you’re putting all your efforts and attempts in but they’re just a person who maybe doesn’t have a “can’t do” issue but they have definitely a “won’t do” issue. Sometimes you just want to yank that weed out and just discard it. How do you prevent not yanking them too soon and also knowing what that weeds never going to be able to lead?

Jeff McManus: I liked how you put that. You just can’t yank it out. Sometimes what we found is if you really want to grow good grass that is weed free you got to focus on growing the grass not the weeds. So you fertilize, you water, and you give it plenty of sunlight, grass will eventually choke out the weeds, the good healthy grass. It’s funny how that happens with humans too. As we started changing our culture and really started focusing on growing each other we wanted people to be successful we would give them knowledge, we would give them opportunities to be leaders, we would give them opportunities to be accountable, things that just grew them well they got healthier they got stronger. Some of the folks that maybe you would identify and thinking of as a weed some of them left on their own because they felt more comfortable in another setting which was good for them but it was amazing how many people that you might think were weeds really were good healthy grass but they just needed some encouragement and they changed over they came back over to see the positive culture. It’s kind of those guys who sit on the fence and are just watching to see who’s going to influence them. If I wasn’t proactively watering and fertilizing then the weeds just took over and that those people tended to go that way. So, I found that growing the culture was much more important than the results I was getting.

Jim Rembach: I can start thinking about your business and it being and having that long-term view as well as how that absolutely fits in developing people and creating a culture it doesn’t happen fast it’s not an annual thing, right? Although you do have to pay attention to it annually it isn’t something that’s just going to be done within a single growing season. When I start thinking about many other types of organizations and industries and things like that time is not and is not their luxury. They have the pressure of competition, they have the pressure of making certain numbers in order to keep things flowing or meet the needs of maybe shareholders or internal constituents or even external constituents, how does a leader in those types environments make sure that they keep the right mindset and play for the long term? Because too many times they’re just focused in on the minute by minute and even second by second?

Jeff McManus: You’re right on Jim, you’re right on with your remarks. What you find is leaders like Jack Welch who talked about the team that has the best employees usually wins. And so how do you get the best employees? You’ve got to invest in them. Just like taking care of the your equipment you can either service it, change the oil, sharpen the blades or you can just run it to death and it’s going to stop and you’re going to have to do something that’s going to cost you a whole lot more. So, we look at investing in our people is like preventive maintenance and it even takes them to a higher level. We’ve seen people outgrow these positions because we’ve invested in them and we really want them to be successful. If they can do more than what they’re doing here we want them to do we wanted to continue to grow. We’ve had people take other jobs and other areas, we’ve had them become managers and leaders of other departments. We feel like we’re an incubator to grow people’s greatness inside of them don’t let this job handcuff you if you’re created to do something else. But if you love this and this is where your passion and we want you to be the very best at it we want you to be the expert where people are coming to you and asking you about their plans asking you how you grow these things and they see themselves and all of a sudden is—Wow! I am the plant expert out here these are my plants and they take that ownership and that pride, it’s just a totally different mindset versus this is just a job.

Jim Rembach: For me when I lived in Memphis, not too far from where you are, when my wife and I first got married we lived on a corner house we actually were the second owners of a house we purchased it out of a state and it had quite an extensive amount of landscaping and so for me I put a big effort into trying to maintain it and also make it even better and I can tell you that so many people would just stop me as I was outside and give me compliments about how the yard looked. And you know what? The amount of gratification, satisfaction all the things that go along with building a stronger well-being was something that—it was hard for me describe. I can only imagine that your folks how that can also make a huge impact on you being able to build an even stronger culture.

Jeff McManus: What you just said Jim is right on and this is what I teach to other businesses. When I’m working with them is creating that pride of ownership no matter what it is if you’re creating widgets be the best widget creator. We’re fortunate in landscaping just like in your yard everybody sees the results, sometimes when you’re working in a county not everybody can see your results just a few people but you get that gratification, we’re fortunate we can get that and people see the logo on the shirt that may have our department name on it or whatever we get treated like a rock star at the local grocery store like, oh, my you work there—because it does have a great reputation well that’s that pride of ownership. I don’t care where you work if you work at the Ritz Carlton it’s like it’s known for that service of, ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen, and that, it’s my pleasure. To me that’s a great, great mark of what of an employee should be and how they should be engaged in their workplace. So, there’s a lot of pride a lot of ownership and that comes with developing people’s mindset.

Jim Rembach: When we start talking about pride and ownership being able to build that strong culture, a lot of it is rooted in quotes because they’re help us focus quickly and maybe readjust. Is there a quote or two that you can share?

Jeff McManus: Well, as you know Jim in my book that’s full of quotes, I’m a quote collector. I’m just thinking of one here, one of my favorite ones for me personally reminds me to keep being persistent. It’s from Napoleon Hill who wrote Thinking and Grow Rich. He wrote one of the most common causes of failure is the habit of quitting when one is overtaken by temporary defeat, So many times I’ve wanted to stop and that quote has kept me going it’s like this is the only temporary keep pushing, keep going and you will see the success. I remember when we were frustrated with the drama here the negativity in our department it’s like, oh my goodness, and I realized I had to change I had to start planning something positive in growing after ten years of being here took me that long to start really planting positive seeds, so don’t stop. That quote—temporary defeat, temporary defeat just keep persisting, I’m glad I.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s a great message to send. That’s one of the downsides of being mindful and living in the moment is that—it’s temporary, right?

Jeff McManus: That’s right.

Jim Rembach: You talked about this transition, you talk about you being able to deepen your roots and grow others and to do that there’s a lot of humps that we have to get over in order for that to happen. Is there a time where you’ve had to get over the hump where we can all learn to grow better?

Jeff McManus: Well, I think when I was in Miami working at the resort. I had just gone down there, I was 25 years old and I was the youngest person on the crew. It was a union and most of the guys had not been supervised in the last two or three years so they were pretty much just doing what they felt was right. Some of the guys weren’t really into the work they would clock in and go home come back and clock out and I mean just a lot of craziness and I was trying to get it all figured out and it was a really low point in my life. I was trying to learn the plant names, I was trying to learn to speak Spanish, I was trying to speak Creole, I was trying to—all these things learn the culture, I was just at my wit’s end. I had over hire, I hired more people to come work because I hadn’t done a good job on my due diligence on how many people we needed. Several of our contracts had fired us, our contractors had fired us because we up the rates because we hired more people and which caused me to have to lay off a lot of people. That was hard I’d lay off about 20 people and I realized I was affecting lives, I was affecting families the breadwinners I was laying them off and that was emotionally very, very hard it was probably one of the worst days of my life or days in my life. One night I was coming home from a night class, I was taking night classes at the local community college learning my plants of that area in South Florida, and I fell asleep at the wheel totaled out my car I ended up in the hospital. I ended up being fine just minor things it could have been a lot worse fortunately I had my seat belt on. I remember laying in that bed going there’s just got to be a better—I’m burning the candle on both ends. I’m going after it as much as I can I’m doing as hard as I can and I just pretty much at my wit’s end. I was broken, I was a broken person just trying to figure out how to do this. And the teachings of my dad and mom came back and that was of Zig Ziglar saying, you can get everything in life you want if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want. And I had to totally shift my thinking, shift my thinking and to start thinking, what is it that these people want? And so instead of me thinking about what I wanted I had to start thinking what they wanted and it totally changed me in how I started approaching it and started building collaboration with our team instead of me always working against our team.

Jim Rembach: Thanks for sharing that story and glad you survived that and it wasn’t something that prevented you from doing all the great work that you’ve done. When I start looking at the work that you’re doing, in the industry and what you’re doing you start talking about rock stars, you’re becoming a rock star with what you’ve doing the accomplishment that you’ve made. You’ve been doing a lot of public speaking, you’ve written a book, you have four sons that I’m sure are contributing and helping others grow too, your wife, you’ve got a lot of things going on. If you’re to talk about a goal, what would be one of them?

Jeff McManus: Well Jim, let me just put that in perspective. Every Tuesday I get to roll the garbage down to the edge of the curb and I get to roll the garbage can back on Tuesday night, so let’s keep that in perspective so thank you for your kind words. When you find your passion which is helping others and growing others that’s where I want to be in that spot working at a university, what a better place than to help grow others. And so I get to do that not only internally but externally so that’s been a fun launch for me as to get to do this with other companies as well—teaching them how to grow their people.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award winning solutions guarantee to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better.

Jim Rembach: Alright, here we go Fast Leader legion, it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Jeff, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Jeff McManus, are you ready to hoedown?

Jeff McManus: I’m ready to hoedown.

Jim Rembach: Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Jeff McManus: Mental barriers.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Jeff McManus: Take an inventory, work your inventory.

Jim Rembach: What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Jeff McManus: Investing in others.

Jim Rembach: What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Jeff McManus: Reading books.

Jim Rembach: What would be one book, and it could be from any genre, that you’d recommend to our listeners and of course we’ll put a link to Growing Weeders into Leaders, on your show notes page as well.

Jeff McManus: Becoming a Person of Influence, John Maxwell. Okay, Fast Leader Legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/JeffMcManus.

Jim Rembach: Okay Jeff, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. So, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Jeff McManus: Become a student of learning. Just learn, just grow, just continually to grow because every challenge you run into if you will learn, listen, and grow, read about it, listen to others you’ll be able to equip yourself and will be able to sustain whatever challenges you have.

Jim Rembach: Jeff it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with a Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Jeff McManus: Absolutely, it’s been my pleasure, jeffmcmanusspeaking.com, have all my social media there that’s where I’m doing my blogs, would love to connect with your listeners.

Jim Rembach: Jeff McManus, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

END OF AUDIO.

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118: Dov Baron: I needed to fall and get smashed to pieces

Dov Baron Show Notes

Dov Baron was at the top of his career. After a long speaking tour he took a few days off and decided to go hiking with a friend. Instead of hiking, they decided to go free climbing. At 120 feet Dov reached for a rock that dislodged a bigger rock which knocked him down and sent him crashing to the bottom. But it wasn’t the fall that changed his life. Listen to Dov and learn how to move onward and upward faster.

Dov was born in the UK. He is the eldest of nine children. His mother and father divorced when he was 7 years old so some are half siblings. Growing up – while other kids were watching cartoons, Dov describes himself as a weird kid. He was fascinated by documentaries, politics, and what made people do what they do.

Dov has always been an entrepreneur (started his own business at 15). But being entrepreneurial was born of his inability to follow rules that didn’t make sense or were outdated to me as a high creative, high stimulus individual.

Dov is currently the President of Authentic Paragon Alliance, a strategic leadership consulting firm. He is a bestselling author of several books. His latest book is Fiercely Loyal; How High Performing Companies Develop and Retain Top Talent.

Dov Baron has been speaking internationally for over 30 years, he’s the man with a finger on the pulse of the evolving world of NextGen leadership. One of Inc. Magazine’s Top 100 Leadership Speakers to hire, Dov Baron is a master storyteller! Considered by many as the leading authority on Authentic Leadership, and the founder of Full Monty Leadership and The Authentic Speaker Academy for Leadership. Outside of his speaking and training Dov works with multi-disciplinary leaders and executive teams to build the bonds that create organizational cultures that become Fiercely Loyal.

He also writes for and has been featured in many industry magazines including being featured on CNN, CBS Small Business Pulse, SHRM, Yahoo Finance, Boston Globe, Business in Vancouver, USA today, CEO, Entrepreneur and many more.

Dov currently lives in Vancouver with his beautiful wife – his queen, Renuka and has 3 children: a daughter age 40, and two sons ages 29 and 30. He also is blessed with four grandkids.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @TheDovBaron to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“Most people that get to a leadership position have some wrong wiring.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“A lot of leaders tend to see things as – my way is the only way.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“What you’ve already got is magnificent, now let’s polish that.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“Your rough edges were there to protect you but may be no longer necessary.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“If you don’t work on emotional intelligence skills you’re going to fall flat on your face.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“We’ve been trained that vulnerability is a weakness. It’s actually the most powerful strength you can have.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“When you reveal it all, it actually bonds people to you.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“A trusted friend has seen who you are beneath the mask.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“The number one challenge facing organizations is the ability to keep people loyal.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“If people don’t feel an emotional bond to you they’re going to take off.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“You have to invest in order to get gains.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“People want the payout without doing the investment.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“The root of any business is your people.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“When we invest in them, they will invest in engagement in the company.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“Active global engagement is only at 13%.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“Move your employee engagement numbers up because it can make you go bankrupt.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“You can’t be vulnerable if you’re not safe.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“Emotional safety is needed for innovation to take place.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“If millennials don’t feel connected to you as a human being, they will walk away.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“If you want to get to the top, you will need the soft skills.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“Hard skills may get you there, but soft skills will keep you at the top.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“There is a voice within you; it’s telling you what your purpose is.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“What I’m doing is not about the direct impact in the moment, it’s the ripple effect.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

“You’ve got to live your purpose even if you don’t see the results immediately.” -Dov Baron Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Advice for others

Listen to that little whisper inside of you telling you what your purpose is.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Stepping further into courage.

Best Leadership Advice Received

Who’s on your team?

Secret to Success

Compassion

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

The willingness to see the greatness in others.

Contacting Dov

Website: http://fullmontyleadership.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dovbaron/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheDovBaron

Resources and Show Mentions

Show Transcript:

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

118: Dov Baron: I needed to fall and get smashed to pieces

Intro Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience, break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

Need a powerful and entertaining way to ignite your next conference, retreat or team-building session? My keynote don’t include magic but they do have the power to help your attendees take a leap forward by putting emotional intelligence into their employee engagement, customer engagement and customer centric leadership practices. So bring the infotainment creativity the Fast Leader show to your next event and I’ll help your attendees get over the hump now. Go to beyondmorale.com/speaking to learn more.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader Legion, today I’m excited because I have one of those folks that is just very dynamic, great speaker, great thought leader and you’re going to have fun. Dov Baron was born in the UK. He is the eldest of nine children. His mother and father divorced when he was seven years old so some of his siblings are half-siblings. But growing up while other kids were watching cartoons, Dov describes himself as being a weird kid. He was fascinated by documentaries, politics and what made people do the things that they. Dov has always been an entrepreneur started his own business at the age of Dov, But being entrepreneurial was born of his inability to follow rules that didn’t make sense or were outdated to him as a high creative, high stimulus, individual. Dov is currently the President of Authentic Paragon Alliance, a strategic leadership consulting firm. He is a best-selling author of several books. His latest book is Fiercely Loyal, how high-performing companies develop and retain top talent.

Dov has been speaking internationally for over 30 years. Outside of his speaking and training Dov works with multidisciplinary leaders and executive teams to build the bonds that create organizational cultures that become fiercely loyal. He also writes for and has been published in many industry magazines including being featured on CNN, CBS small business pulse, Yahoo Finance, Boston Globe, USA Today, CEO, entrepreneur and many more.

Dov currently lives in Vancouver with his beautiful wife his queen, Renuka and has three children a daughter age 40 and two sons, ages 29 and 30. He’s also blessed to have four grandkids. Dov are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Dov Baron : I am ready. Let’s do that hump.

Jim Rembach: Alright now I’ve given our Legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we get to know you even better?

Dov Baron : My passion is as always leadership. But the specifics of that leadership is giving—if you really want to look at what’s going to make the great leaders of today and tomorrow it is actually the sub-skills the very thing that we push towards the side is the thing we need to bring back. And so we’re very focused on and passionate about is bringing leaders to connect with their own purpose and then having the emotional intelligence to lead with purpose so they create fierce loyalty about between the people around them and all of their team members and their customers.

Jim Rembach: Thanks for sharing that. I’m certified in emotional intelligence myself and I’ve been following this track and trying to become more aware and be better at being that one that does the connection and creates the rapport as a better awareness of self but let me tell you, growing up with three brothers in an area in Chicago that’s kind of rough I had some tendencies and behaviors that you weren’t necessarily high in emotional intelligence. I didn’t develop those early it didn’t come till later in life. So how do you actually help leaders that have had some early hardwiring in the wrong direction kind of redo themselves?

Dov Baron : It’s a great question Jim and the answer to it is actually right back to what you just said. In my experience most of the people who get to a leadership position have had some of wrong wiring. The positive side of it is that it’s created a drive in them that’s allowed them to move into a leadership position but they’ve got some rough edges around that and a lot of leaders tend to see things as this is the way, it’s the only way, it’s my way, and if you don’t do it my way it won’t work. Today’s leaders can’t do that anymore you can’t lead millennials who are now 38% of the workforce in that way/ So, one of the things that we do is we say, what you’ve already got is magnificent now let’s polish that let’s polish the diamond and bring forward the other skills that are waiting underneath because those rough edges is there to protect you they were appropriate at one point in time but they may no longer be necessary.

Jim Rembach: Thanks for putting it the way that you did it makes total sense. We also talked about folks when you think about career progression they will hit a ceiling if they don’t exercise this different area within there within their potential skill sets if it hasn’t been developed in order to get into that next level and it typically happens about, you know your mid-40. So your technical skill and ability and knowledge of the particular business that you’re in or the job that you’re doing will help you get to a position of authority but you’re going to get smacked in the head if you don’t now switch and actually become better at those emotional intelligence skills.

Dov Baron : Absolutely right Jim. Of course if you’re going to be good at what you do then you have to be technically good at what you do there’s no doubt about that you’ve got to have the skill set to do it. But at some point in time you’re going to have to interact with others and if you’re going to lead you’re going to have to lead others. And if you don’t have the emotional intelligence skill set, if you’ve not worked on understanding how to have compassion and empathy and communication skills if you’ve not worked on some of those things, if you don’t have self-awareness and you don’t have awareness of others you’re going to fall very flat your face very quickly.

Jim Rembach: So, for me one of the things that attracted me to you initially without even getting any exposure to your particular work was this whole concept of Full Monty leadership. To me I don’t know if you have the copyright infringement or anything on that area but I think to me it’s just totally brilliant to put it into that context. How did you come up with that and share with people what it is?

Dov Baron : I’d love to share that. Actually it came out it in a conversation with one of my mentors. We were talking about a marketing guy working for me who constantly struggled with how to best say what it is that I do. This mentor and I was having a chat and we were talking about the movie Full Monty and if you’ve seen the movie you know it’s about a bunch of financially struggling northern English guys who decide to compete with the Chippendales who are these young hot guys. And so these guys are also going to take their clothes up because they figure, well a lot of people show up give money. Well of course they’re in awful shape and they don’t look great they can’t dance so nobody showing up. So they’re looking for this queen of differentiation that will make them stand out. And what is the point of differentiation? Well they take everything off they go Full Monty which is a British term, they go Full Monty they take it all off. And when we were discussing the point of differentiation in the work that I do with leaders is showing them the value the impact of vulnerability, how powerful that is for bonding people to you. That vulnerabilities we’ve been trained to believe that it’s a weakness but it’s actually the most powerful strength you can have. And that when you reveal it all, again you do so with the sermon but when you reveal it all it actually bonds people to you rather than pushing them away from you. And I get that it’s an extremely scary thought for many old school leaders.

Let me give you a little way to play with this for a moment so you can grasp it. I want you for a moment to think about somebody who is a trusted friend, somebody who is a really loyal trusted friend on one side, put them in your mind on one side and on the other side of your mind let somebody else you’ve known equal amount of time are just an acquaintance. What is the difference between those two people? You can’t say its time anymore because you’ve known them as long as each other. So what is the difference? And the answer is that a trusted friend has seen beneath the covers. You have revealed to them who you are beneath the mask. You’ve stripped away and reveal the weaknesses, the struggles, the challenges and they’ve done the same with you. And that’s what has actually created the bond between you. That is what you want with your leadership team. That’s what you want with the people that you are leading and guiding is you want to do that because today more than ever the number one challenge facing major organizations and small business alike is the ability to keep people loyal to them. If they don’t feel an emotional bond to you they’re going to take off pretty damn fast.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s a great point. I was actually having a conversation with somebody the other day about employee engagement and she was wearing the badge of lean operation on her chest like it was something great but yet we’re talking about an employee engagement problem and the way that she was wearing that badge is when I started talking to her about some of the activities that I was referring to in order to help them improve engagement. She says, well is that going to require them to take time to do that? I’m like, “well yes.” And she says, “but we’re in lean operation” and I’m like, “and you have an employee engagement problem, if you don’t give your people the opportunity to interact and engage become vulnerable share those things you’re never going to overcome your engagement problem.

Dov Baron : It’s very interesting isn’t it? Because you’ve just pointed out the great paradox which is we want a lean mean operation that it’s not high cost and we want employee engagement. And I got news for you, it’s a simple rule of Finance, you have to invest in order to get gains. And what people want in many organizations is they want to get a payout without doing the investment and the root of any business, I don’t care what business you’re in it’s not relevant just take a look the root of any business is your people.

For decades we’ve said, my most important asset is my people, yet you don’t treat them that way as a leader this is so often the case. We need to step back and recognize that our people are our greatest asset and we need to invest in that asset because when we invest in them they will invest in engagement with the company. And remember disengagement are around 73% and what does that mean it mean? It means actually that active full engagement is actually globally only at 13%. That means that 13 out of a 100 people who work for you are actively engaged with your company the rest are either disengaged or actively disengaged which means poisoning people against your company. You better move those numbers up because it can make you go bankrupt.

Jim Rembach: And I think too it puts in a context to where what we’re talking about a moment ago is that in order for the Full Monty and people get to the point to where they do the Full Monty it doesn’t happen quickly so you know you have to create the mood and the environment for them to get vulnerable and be able to share and make those connections and that’s an investment too.

Dov Baron : Well you know you just said that is really important it’s a progression and what does that mean? We have a model that we show it’s a (11:45 inaudible) model. And one of the central pieces around there is something called safety, this is the boundary that holds things together you can’t be vulnerable if you’re not safe. We all understand in order for you to succeed in business today you have to be incredibly innovative. You’re now seeing on everybody’s mission statement, we strive to innovate blah, blah, blah, but you know what? If you don’t create an environment for innovation, it won’t take place. What is an environment for innovation? It’s safety, its emotional safety. I’m going to know that I’m not going to get dumped on because you don’t like my idea. I got to know that it’s emotionally safe for me to show up and make a mistake. I got to know that it’s allowable for me to show my humanity and that you’ll show me yours as a result and that creates an environment, that creates innovation, growth and engagement.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s so true and I don’t think people really see how those are interrelated and interconnected and that if you want greater innovation you have to allow your people to be able to connect with one another. Because we all know—I don’t care it’s beyond intuitive we all know that when we work in collaboration and in concert with one the output is significantly greater than when we are working by ourselves.

Dov Baron : You got it.

Jim Rembach: So, how do we get to that point? It is the vulnerability piece. It is the no discovery piece. It is the safety of being able to fail piece it’s all those particular components.

Dov Baron : And we got to be willing to embrace that. And again I understand that it’s difficult for somebody who is a baby boomer even a gen X’er, Millennials though as I said they are 38% of the workforce, you’ve got to understand that’s what they want. So, whether you’re comfortable with it or not, I’m sorry I don’t mean to be rude, but nobody cares it’s not even relevant. If you want to be in business and if you want to lead you’ve got to learn to get comfortable with this. Because Millennials have the greatest bullshit meter in the world and if they don’t feel connected to you as a human being, they feel like you’re all about your title they will walk away.

When I entered into the workforce I was asked, what do I want to do? That was a 20 to 40-year question. When Millennials enter the workforce, when they’re thinking about their career it’s a 4-year question ten times less, four years, they’re looking to change careers. If you can’t keep them in your company you’re not getting the ROI on the training and development and you’re going to spend between 1.5 and 2 times the annual salary of every individual on their training and development. What does that mean? It means if you don’t keep them for 1.5 to 2 years you don’t have any ROI. So, the part of the work that we risk is getting the people to stay for four years doubles your investment. And if you can bond them to you they will also become evangelical and that’s what you want, you want your people to become evangelical so they’ll bring other good people into the company as well. So you’ve always got these great pool of high talent, top talent people working with you, working for you and becoming evangelical for what it is that you do because they believe in you the leader because they get to know you the human being.

Jim Rembach: Yeah, and I think what you just did right there is put in a very tangible metric upon emotions. And a lot of people will say that, “well, that’s all the soft stuff there’s no hard figures and my reply to that is that it’s because you don’t know how to calculate it.”

Dov Baron : You know what Jim that’s a great point. So, a big piece of our work, central basin in this model, the central pin is purpose. And people go, “Well you know that’s really nice concept. I really actually quite like it but I just don’t see how it will impact my business.” So, as an example we’re talking about looking at the numbers and looking at the matrix, let’s think about a book you’re probably familiar with it which is called, Good to Great. Good to Great is a book that was written by Jim Collins and his partner back in ’94, not last week not last year ’94 and they were particularly fascinated by this idea that what is it that takes a company to be top in the Fortune 500? How do they get that? In that research what they discovered was that 83% of the companies that make it to Fortune 500 drop off into irrelevance within 15 years. They were fascinated by what is it? What’s the difference? What is it that gets the company knowing that it just got to the top but to stay there when others fall away. And guess what? They found that the companies that made it to the top and stayed there for multiple generations were all valued based, purpose driven organizations. What does that mean? They were all focused on the soft skills. So when you’re looking at the matrix, the measurement of that, that’s something you really want to pay attention to. If you want to get to the top you will need the soft skills. Like you said earlier at some point in time you’re going to hit the wall because your hard skills won’t be enough.

Jim Rembach: It just going to happen it’s inevitable. One of the things when we’re starting to talk about all of this is that it could be filled with a lot of emotion and inspiration. And we look at quotes on the Fast Leader show to help us move onward and upward faster, is there a quote or two that you can share?

Dov Baron : There’s a ton of quotes, if it’s okay I’d actually like to share one of mine because I think it just brings this home and what we’re saying. I don’t want to sound egoically but it’s not meant that way and it’s just this, “Hard skills may get you there but it’s the soft skills that will keep you at the top and make sure that when you get to the top you’re not there alone.” And I think that that’s something that I just want to drill into every leader’s brain. You’ve got to do that. Branson said, I can’t remember the exact quote but Branson said, “The companies of the future that are going to outshine and outdo their competitors are the purpose driven organizations.”

Jim Rembach: And without a doubt. You’re talking about that younger generation they’re looking for purpose first not pay.

Dov Baron : Well, we as baby boomers look at that next generation. We think that we want to give them a rise, give them more money, give them a corner office, they don’t give a crap about those things what they care about is meaningful work. What is meaningful work? Working for a company who is purpose –driven so that they can align their purpose where it’s meaningful, that matters.

Jim Rembach: Absolutely. You and I have had the opportunity to chat previously and we’re kindred spirits in a lot of ways as I jokingly say, I think we’re brothers from another mother. And so like me I’m sure you’ve had a lot of humps to get over, is there time that you can share with us when you’ve had to get over the hump and it made a difference for you?

Dov Baron : Hump? Now that would be a gross understatement. Jim, 1990 I was at the top of my career. I’ve been speaking for six years at that point in time and in June, 1990 I came back from a speaking, so I was pretty exhausted. My speaking managers told me that she’d given me four days off and I went up to a place called Whistler, which many of you might be familiar with it was home of the Winter Olympics in 2010. My buddy and I went up there it had been a really wet spring but it was a gorgeous day. We spent that late morning and early afternoon sunbathing by the lake and in the afternoon decided we were going to go for hike to a place called Brandywine Falls, which is this majestic place it’s amazing, glacial water rushes off the glacier down this twisting river and then plummets off the edge of a 200-foot drop cliff onto the boulders below, it’s stunning. We hike down the bottom, being a bit of a lunatic as I was a bit of an adrenaline junkie, I challenge my buddy to go behind the waterfall to hiking face the spray 70-miles an hour get behind that we did it. I came on the other side I felt like I was Superman, I could do absolutely anything. And so I challenge my buddy, I said, “Why don’t we—you said a hike, let’s free climb. Now some of your listeners may be familiar with mountain climbing, it involves ropes and safety harnesses and all kinds of those kinds of good stuff and some people think it’s crazy, well, maybe not. Free climbing on the other hand is climbing without any of that stuff but at least you have the right shoes and the right clothing and chalk.

If you want to take that into the go from the moderately insane to the fully completely nuts, you could try to free climb in wet clothing and wet shoes, that’s what we began to do. For those of you watching, listening you probably have lived in a high-rise or gone to a high-rise and you may have come to the 6th floor. Imagine yourself walking out onto the balcony of 6th floor and there’s no railing looking over the edge, if you’ve got problem with heights your legs might get a little bit wobbly, if you don’t have problem with heights you think it’s okay but you wouldn’t want to land from that. So now let’s take it from 6th to 7 to 8 to 10 to 12 foot stories up, 120 feet looking over that edge that’s the height I was at as I reach for a rock that dislodged the bigger rock and knock me down sending me hurtling to the boulders below and smashed me to pieces. Khalil Gibran, one of my favorite poets and philosophers said, “Your pain is the cracking of the shell of your understanding.” And on that day my understanding got shattered and that send me backwards in every possible way you can imagine. From being at the top of my career to nothing, to being literally shattered to pieces. So, yeah, there was a little bit of a hump.

Jim Rembach: Dov, the question is how did you survive and then what is survival even look like in those first few months?

Dov Baron : You know it’s interesting because there are two dominant questions. Every time I tell the story there’s always two questions that comes up in one form another. One is, what was it like to fall? I don’t know. Because as I reach for a rock 120 feet it dislodge a bigger rock and knocked me unconscious, may have saved my life. Second question is, people say, what did you learn? Or how did it change you? Some version of that question seems to be universal because we all get it at a deep level that there’s something we know that if you have a life-threatening event something about you changes you’re brought back to something. That recovery physically was brutal as you can imagine but emotionally it was far tougher because I looked okay, about ten reconstructive surgeries, I looked okay probably within five, six, seven months but the emotional recovery was far longer it was brutal. And all the time I remember, I’m a tough kid from the ghetto I’m a leader so I’m not going to show anybody. I’ve got a bull this whole idea of never showing any vulnerability so I hide all that. You ask me, how are you doing? I’m great, I’m coming back.

There is no back, you can’t come back you have to recreate. It was about 18 months that I fell on the floor in a heat and I found myself in the fetal position, bawling feeling devastated, feeling like I’ve lost everything at a soulful level and it brought me back to that place. And I would challenge each of you to remember this there is a voice within you it is very often a whisper but it’s telling you what your purpose is. It has your question and that thing you’re doing is right and makes logical sense but there’s something underneath that goes, you know what you’re a little bit off this just a tweak you’ve got a turn and it’s the call to your greatness. And that I needed to fall and get smashed to pieces to actually shut the heck up and listen, that’s what it did for me that was the turning point of my life. Not the fall, 18 months later in listening.

Jim Rembach: I’m glad you’re able to get your way up and out of that because you’ve definitely made a significant impact and I think just you sharing that story and the way that you shared and the way that you drew us in is a reason why you survived.

Dov Baron : Thank you so much. Thank you.

Jim Rembach: I know you got a lot of things going on, grand kids, travel, of course your work and I know you’re still quite active from an athletic perspective you still like to do things as far as taxing your personal body. But what are some your goals?

Dov Baron : My goals in a grand sense or in the little sense? In the little sense, we’ve got things that we’re releasing like we’ve got a new leadership course coming out, our goal is to get out there and to get a certain number of people to go through that and experience it. Of course, those kinds of goals. But my goal is always the same which is around my purpose. My purpose is to facilitate the purpose of others to allow them to bring up forward so they can really have rich, successful, and fulfilling lives having impact on others. I give you the goal as it came to me in clarity. Many years ago, for many years I owned a personal development company seminar company, and at the end of these five-day events which were 16 hours long people were very gracious they’d thank me.

And we would say thank you and I would always answer with one simple question, for what? Because people like to be general and I want to make them specific because that allows them to get it. This one lady stood in front of me she said, “I want to thank you” and I said, “For what?” She took a pause, and I said, “Okay,” and she said, “For my grandchildren.” And I said, “For your grandchildren? That’s interesting, what do you mean? Your grandchildren are not here” she goes, “No, my daughter is here and you’ve changed my relationship with her and she’s pregnant and you will inevitably by virtue of what I’ve learned changed the relationship with my grandchild.” And it was at that moment that I got what I’m doing and what I’m doing is not about the direct impact in the moment but the ripple effect. So as you listen to this, I hope that you’ve been shifted in some way and brought closer to your own purpose and as a result of that that will impact the lives of the people you lead and your family and that is my goal.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

An even better place to work is an easiest solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better.

Jim Rembach: All right, here we go Fast Leader Legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Dov, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster, Dov Baron, are you ready to go hoedown?

Dov Baron : I’m ready.

Jim Rembach: What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Dov Baron : What’s holding me back personally? Just stepping further into courage. It’s all about courage, even more courage.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Dov Baron : Tony Robbins said to me, “Who’s on your team? I said, I don’t know what that means? And he really explained to me that I needed a team and he was damn right.

Jim Rembach: What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Dov Baron : One of my secrets without doubt is compassion.

Jim Rembach: What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Dov Baron : The willingness to see the greatness in others.

Jim Rembach: What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners, and it could be from any genre and of course we’ll put a link to your book on the show notes page?

Dov Baron : Thank you for (28:08 inaudible) which is mine, but the book I would recommend is the one we spoke about which is of course Good to Great by Jim Collins.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going too fastleader.net/dovbaron. Okay Dov, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one, so what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Dov Baron : I would take back the knowledge that it’s not always about the direct impact it’s about noises have to be forced, that ripple effect. Because the reason why is because I would often get deflated and I would lose my juice when I wouldn’t get the impact right away what I would actually get was—maybe even some negativity and I began to realize that the real shift is not always right in that moment but the people who went out to say thank you that’s wonderful but there are people who left the room whose names I will never know whose lives got changed and that’s what’s important. That was whatever to remind myself, it’s what would give me the foundation to stay. You’ve got to live your purpose even if you don’t see the results immediately.

Jim Rembach: Dov, it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share it the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Dov Baron : Thank you my friend, I sincerely appreciate that. You can connect with me in all kinds of ways, Twitter @TheDovBaron, Facebook DovBaron Leadership and of course LinkedIn. You can also go to our main site which is fullmontyleadership.com and you can also find me on iTunes-Dov Baron Leadership loyalty tips—in you YouTube and a whole bunch of other places.

Jim Rembach: Dov Baron, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

Thank you for joining me on the fast leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers, and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

END OF AUDIO

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117: Ron Carucci: I don’t know if I’m helpable or beyond help

Ron Carucci Show Notes

Ron Carucci was at a place in his career where he was very discouraged and scared. He never thought he would be able to build a brand new set of muscles at a very seasoned part of his career. But that’s when he got a dose of his own medicine. Listen to how he got over the hump so you can move onward and upward faster too.

Ron was born in NY, the youngest of five in a classic New York Italian family.

Ron has been fortunate to be in a field he loves and is passionate about for the last 30 years. Although his career began in the arts as an actor and singer in New York and toured around the world, he was blessed to discover relatively early that just “telling” stories wasn’t going to sustain his interest; but helping others change their stories and write new chapters of stories was thrilling and he’s never looked back.

Ron is co-founder and managing partner at Navalent, working with CEOs and executives pursuing transformational change for their organizations, leaders, and industries.

He has a thirty year track record helping some of the world’s most influential executives tackle challenges of strategy, organization and leadership. From start-ups to Fortune 10’s, non-profits to heads-of-state, turn-arounds to new markets and strategies, overhauling leadership and culture to re-designing for growth, He has worked in more than 25 countries on 4 continents.

He is the best-selling author of 8 books, including the recent Amazon #1 Rising to Power. He is a regular contributor to the Harvard Business Review, where his work on leadership was named one of the management ideas that mattered most in 2016.

He is also a regular contributor to Forbes. His work’s been featured in Fortune, CEO Magazine, Inc., BusinessInsider, MSNBC, Business Week, Smart Business, and Thought Leaders.

Ron currently lives in the Seattle area with his wife Barbara and two amazing kids, Matthew and Rebecca, who are growing up and finding ways to make the world a better place.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @RonCarucci to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“What’s our part in making the world a better place?” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Take four walls and a roof, fill it with people and it’s going to be ugly.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Human beings when united in a force for good are inspiringly beautiful.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“People are darkly dysfunctional when under led and left to their own devices.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“When you unify and coalesce people into an endeavor they all want to share.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“We all have that inner struggle of me and we.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“When my need for me combats your need for we, we got a little problem.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Company cultures are predisposed to be collaborative or individualistic.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“We have both innate desires to distinguish ourselves and community.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“People who are introverted suffer in very collaborative environments.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“People who are extroverted don’t want to work on their own.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“There are four reoccurring patterns among leaders that distinguish themselves.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“The most value of an organization is at the seams.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Exceptional executives balance intuition and instinct with data and voice.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Exceptional executives know how to narrow priorities to a vital few.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“The unnecessary excess of caution we apply when considering precedent is wasted.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Asking for help is a great thing.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Change is hard enough as it is, but without help I don’t know how you do it.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“We’re made to be in relationship.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“It’s not about what you do to or for people, it’s what you do with them.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“The only transformational experience we have in life is in relationship.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“The idea of self-improvement is an oxymoron.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Connection and relationship was one of the things that made people fail fastest.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“What used to be the pinnacle of employment is now the employer of last resort.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“I want to redeem organizations.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Organizations can do things with reach that other mechanisms can’t.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“All of the time you had angst over what people thought of you was wasted.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

“Folks that are obsessed about what people think about them, rest assured they’re not.” -Ron Carucci Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Advice for others

Don’t worry about what other people think about, you. Because they’re not.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Figuring out how to bring cohesion and connection to a virtual firm.

Best Leadership Advice Received

Leadership is a relationship. It’s about what you do with people, not to them or for them.

Secret to Success

I think it’s important to get people laughing. My clients never wonder how much I care about them. They know that I put their success first.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

The fact that I spend my life being a human being outside of my work.

Contacting Ron

Website: http://www.navalent.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/navalent/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/RonCarucci

Resources and Show Mentions

Dorie Clark: coming 6/21/17 to the Fast Leader Show

Show Transcript:

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

117: Ron Carucci: I don’t know if I’m helpable or beyond help

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader Legion, today I’m excited because the person who we have on the show today is actually have a profound discovery to share. Ron Carucci was born in New York the youngest of five and a classic New York Italian family. Ron has been fortunate to be in a field that he loves and his passion about for the last years. Although his career began in the arts as an actor and singer in New York and toured around the world he was blessed to discover relatively early that just telling stories wasn’t going to sustain his interest but helping others change their stories and write new chapters of stories was thrilling and he’s never looked back. Ron is co-founder and managing partner at Navalent working with CEOs and executives pursuing transformational change for their organization leaders and industries.

He has a 30 year track record helping some of the world’s most influential executives tackling challenges of strategy, organization and leadership. From startups to fortune tens, non-profits to heads of state, turnarounds to new markets and strategies, overhauling leadership and culture to redesign for growth, he has worked in more than 25 countries and on four continents. He is the best-selling author of eight books including the recent Amazon number one, “Rising to Power”. He’s a regular contributor to the Harvard Business Review where his work on leadership was named one of the management ideas that mattered most in 2016. He’s a regular contributor to Forbes, his work has been featured in Fortune CEO magazine, Inc , Business Insider, MSNBC, Businessweek, Smart Business and Taught Leaders. Ron currently lives in the Seattle area with his wife Barbara and two amazing kids Matthew and Rebecca who are growing up and finding ways to make the world a better place. Ron Carruci, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Ron Carruci : Hey, Jim it’s great to be with you. Let’s get over it.

Jim Rembach: All right. Now I’ve given our legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Ron Carruci : Yeah, sure. So I have a very good fortune of getting to wake up every day and think about what’s our part in making the world a better place? By partnering with our leaders and organizations who are on some very auspicious journey. They’re trying to enter the world with clean energy they’re trying to bring new products and services to market, they’re trying to cure cancer. They’re trying to do all kinds and noble things between them and that dream is the thing called an organization full of things called human beings. And sometimes those things are as compatible as you might want them to be and so we get the joy of coming alongside them and untimely match spaghetti ball and figuring out how to help them get to the place they have set out to get to.

Jim Rembach: It’s funny the way you explain that because just a moment ago I completed an interview with somebody who started as an astrophysicist who’s now got in to leadership development stuff. And I said, “You know the joke is that when things seemed simple we all say that, well hey it’s not rocket science, but actually when you start thinking about dealing with humans it’s significantly more complex than rocket science.

Ron Carruci : It is, it’s far more complex. I’ve always said to my clients you take four walls and a roof throw it up to the people it’s going to be ugly. I began my career, I began my graduate studies in clinical psych, and quick l realize I have no desire to see what people’s individual craft I just didn’t have the patience for it, I didn’t have fortitude for it. So, I went into org psych only to quickly discover they bring it all to work with them anyway now I just get it mess.

Jim Rembach: It is so true. For whatever reason we have this you know misconception that when people come to work all of a sudden their behavior and their baggage gets left at the door and they become this different individual.

Ron Carruci : No they bring their baggage with them and some of them bring their porters with them to come to work. There is a flip side which is what keeps me engaged in the work they’re human beings when united again in some greater force for good they’re inspiringly beautiful. They’re darkly dysfunctional when they’re under LED and left to their own devices, we all are, we’re not the exception. But when you can unify them and coalesce them into an endeavor they all want to share and they can get past that inner struggle, we all have that inner struggle of me, we. I want to be an individual, I want to be part of a community. And when my need for me combats your needs for we got a little problem but if we can get people past we help leaders figure out how to do the dance of that beautiful things happen but it’s not second nature. It is not second nature.

Jim Rembach: And based on what you were just saying too, one of the things that I try to you convey to folks is that you also can’t expect those things to occur in the superficial. Meaning that if you expect people say and you say, “Hey, guess what? You’re now colleagues and that they’re going to actually act like colleagues you need to really recheck yourself.

Ron Carruci : Despite that people do it all the time. I’ve watched companies merge. We certainly watched some massive global powerhouse by a bunch of little companies and put them together into a platform and say great, now you’re a company. From under what rock did you crawl? And these are no doubt smart people, they bought the right companies best in breed companies put them together and do the right things for the right reasons so strategically it was thoughtful they just thought the self-evident brilliance of the move would rule the day and common sense will just take over and it’ll work itself out. Boy, it’s astounding how many people think all that stuff will just work itself out, I don’t know why you would think that. Based on what evidence would you say, ‘sure, bunch of human beings—so they’ve met before now you’re a team, now you’re a company, now you’re these, call me if you have any questions. You just have to scratch your head.

Jim Rembach: You definitely do. And you said something to me that kind of resonate as well the whole me-we thing. In that if you were to stop and think about would you subject other people to those conditions your answer would be, ‘yeah, if I have to do it I’m going to do it.’ But if you were to ask yourself do I want to be subjected to that? Your answer would be the definitive, ‘heck, no.’

Ron Carruci : Nope, nope, it’s good for you not good for me. You move people around in an organizations and their cultures are predisposed—great example here in Seattle, Microsoft, highly, individualistic to an extreme they’re winning and hired people. Suddenly now they have platforms and products with collaborations required. We were there for three years you couldn’t get them to collaborate with a gun to their head. First of all it’s hardwired, it’s genetic that we have innate desire to distinguish ourselves and stick out. We have innate desires for intimacy and community and connection. Some people have more of one than the other but we have both. But if you have an orientation and organization of one toward the other the one you don’t predisposed to both are going to suffer.

And so people who are introverted who naturally like to work by themselves suffer in a very collaborative environments. People who are extroverted don’t want to work on their own but they annoy people when they walk into their office and say, ‘hey, got a minute?’ No, I don’t. So, you have to allow your organization design, your governance, your strategy, all of it has to accommodate enough opportunity for people to distinguish themselves, enough opportunity for people to connect. But to your point, it’s great point Jim, if you try and get people to fake it or you fake your intention to have that work people see through that in four minutes. And people’s BS parameters—I always ask fine leader people when I speak, how many of you feel like you have phenomenal BS parameters? Like within three seconds yours is fibrillating you just know it. People, go hands up. Then I ask, how come you feel like other people’s bs parameters aren’t as good as yours when you’re doing it? But people are so certain they’re buying my smoke, it just baffles me.

Jim Rembach: Okay, so how do we get over this hump? You and I also had the opportunity to have a great conversation off mic and we were referring to people getting, putting in positions of power that quite frankly they’re just not ready for and we slough it off and we just discount and say, Oops! That’s a Peter Principle they got promoted to incompetency. And we just essentially squashing and killing a lot of potential stars, we’re snuffing them out before they have a chance to actually glow. How do we move past this?

Ron Carruci : Great question, Jim. So, the great news is in our research for rising to power which was ten years of information we comb through. We didn’t just find all the land mines, all the reasons why leaders are flaming out spectacularly on their ascent, we also found the reasons why those that are thriving and succeeding are doing so. And we were very proud to watch those ideas get embraced very humbled by Harvard Business reviews honors last year for that idea. We were kind of caught off guard about the response to it but we found in all of the research and data four consistently recurring patterns among the leaders that distinguish themselves. In fact, my research department was ready to shoot me because the way I made them do different regression analyses on the data not because I wasn’t sure what it said, I said I didn’t like what it said. And these four patterns, you had to do all four well. And I thought, “Well I don’t want to say that sounds like you have to be Jesus.” Well can I say, that’s not fair to say that but is three out of four okay? What if they do two great, one okay and one they’re going to work on, is that make them—the bar was very clear below doing all for exceptionally you were a beat you on the beating and there was no way around it so we had to say it.

But the fourth thing, the great news is and I’d share with you listeners they’re learnable. And I think the response from the HBR community on this was so resented because people resonated they recognized that yes the great leaders that I would follow anywhere do those four things and they were these, first was context. These leaders could read tea leaves they knew the context they knew how their business has made money. It’s astounding, Jim how many companies I walk into and I asked people, how do you make your money? What’s your strategy? And they don’t know they give me goals, and mission statements and financial plans and quotas but they can’t finally tell me how they compete. These leaders could read context they could also read tea leaves inside they didn’t bring stuff from their past and try and slap it on this current environment like a formula they really could adapt. They realized that their job was to allow the addition to change them as much as they seemed to change it. Second, was breath, these were leaders who could go from being first chair to orchestra conductor. They knew how all the pieces put together they knew that the most value of an organization is at the seams it’s not any one function. So they group in finance, they group in marketing, a group on sales they didn’t play to their strengths they broaden their view and looked across the organization and stitched it together into a cohesive whole. And how they made decisions and how they resolve conflict and have a set priorities reflected a full understanding of the business not just part of it. The third was decision-making, in short we call it choice. These leaders who weren’t afraid to make hard calls. They weren’t afraid to get the right data. They could balance intuition and instinct with data and voice. They knew whose voices and how much of their voice to coalesce into the right choices. They weren’t awfully directive, they weren’t overly domineering, they weren’t overly consensus driven so they paralyze the place they really know how to construct great choices and they had a narrow priorities to a vital few they didn’t say yes to everybody and they didn’t only say yes to their pet projects. And the last was not surprisingly, connection.

These are the people that had relationships of deep intimacy and trust, up, sideways and down, direct reports, peers and bosses, these are the people every company has them everybody wants to work for them. Everybody adores them. They’re smart, they’re enjoyable, they can’t wait to be in the presence it’s those people. But turns out breaths, context, choice and connection they get all four well they’re all learnable. The time to learn them is not when you get your first VP job the time to start learning those things is at the very beginning of your career. And the great news is if you look back on these successful leaders’ exemplars careers they began building those muscles way, way back.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s really important to note is that—as you were talking–thanks for sharing that, is that I started thinking as well about the finance, so I have a finance background I went to college and I got double major in finance, real estate and I ended up in customer care and customer service, and leadership so that’s kind of how I evolved, but in finance they talk about when you save early at your young age by the time you hit retirement you’re going to have significantly more than if you doubled your time that you are investing in and started late. So it’s that early development.

Ron Carruci : Yes, it’s true.

Jim Rembach: Getting them when—all those synapses aren’t becoming a little bit more stale and hardwired and start developing those things that really makes a difference.

Ron Carruci : And now the great news is, Jim, two things, one now we know what they are. We have 10 years of research that say, these are the thing, these are the muscles you’re got (13:58 inaudible). Yes, they’re big muscles and they’re intimidating but if you wait till you already recognized you haven’t got them, just start building them, you’re behind the eight ball. The second thing is to use your great phrase we’ve all been—in 20 years I’ve called the Peter Principle, you know when that happens? I turn to HR and the hiring manager and say, “This your fault, this is entirely on you?” It isn’t that they didn’t know the job or that they didn’t adapt. Sure, but you put them there. If you invited them to take on a role, in our research it was scary 69% of our sample said they were not prepared for the jobs that are given and more than 50% of them said their companies didn’t do anything to prepare them, how is that okay? HR people should be hanging their head in shame to understand that you’re doing this to people and it’s your responsibility and you have billions of dollars of budget you’re spending on this, why isn’t it working? There’s no excuse for it.

Jim Rembach: Yeah, and we even shared off mic the amount of destruction something like that actually makes, of course, upon the individual, the organization, all the families that are involved.

Ron Carruci : We’re back to the point before about—we put people in a room and say be a team and we wonder why it doesn’t work. Why would you take somebody even who is promising and talented and smart in the role they’re in, put them in a bigger, broader role and say, good luck you’re great here, she’ll be great there and then wonder why they flame out.

Jim Rembach: Exactly.

Ron Carruci : It’s illogical and yet we do it regularly it’s really astounding.

Jim Rembach: Well I can only imagine that when you start talking about your background in starting in theater and just your color and the way that you are so quick-witted just in our discussion. I could spend all day talking with you. But I know that you’re an inspiration maker but you’re also got to be an inspiration seeker. And we look at quotes on the Fast Leader show in order to help us with inspiration, is there one or two that you can share with us?

Ron Carruci : A woman who’s been my mentor and dear friend for -something years came alongside me early in my career and has been there ever since and she told me early on, and I think she got this advice from her mom, she’s in her mid-seventies she’s still teaching PhD students consulting around the world, teaching executives, going strong, brilliant woman but she said to me, nothing is irrevocable except death. And the permission that gave me to say the fear, the tapes in our head, the anxieties that stop us from trying new things or from what people are going to think, the permission if that gives you to say you get two hours you two hours. You can say I’m sorry. The unnecessary excess of caution we apply when considering precedent is so wasted and that mantra has liberated me to make some very hard choices and some very risky and scary choices but to great ends.

Jim Rembach: Well I think what you were just also explaining right there reads perfectly into what one of the things that we talk about is getting over humps. It’s the undo or unjust block that we put upon ourselves often prevents us from moving to the next level. And we have to come through a lot of learnings in order to come to different conclusions and those are humps that we got over and mistakes that we made. Is there a story that you can share where you’ve gotten over the hump?

Ron Carruci : Oh! My gosh, and it’s fairly recent. About, maybe year and a half ago. I was at a place very discouraged, a place in my career where I thought, gosh! We had worked with some clients that that we’re not enjoyable, I love my clients but when they’re sociopath I don’t love them. And there are some clients I don’t—we’re small boutique firm we’re not for everybody—and we’re gone a couple of years where perhaps we took on clients I didn’t feel good match for me. And I was discouraged. Gosh, I’ve done all the things I thought I should do, to be a thought leader to be a guru dump and notoriety wasn’t my aim but it was just sort of have influence and have impact with the people that I thought I could have it with and I thought I’d done everything I could to attract those kinds of leaders and I wasn’t working. I didn’t understand why after this point in my career was it’s so hard to connect with the clients I wanted the most to connect with. So, I hired a coach. At a very discouraged and scared place I stalked somebody, in fact she’s going to be a guest on your show in a couple weeks, Dorie Clark.

Jim Rembach: Oh, yes.

Ron Carruci : And I stalked her for a little while and connected with her and finally on LinkedIn I said, “Hey, Ms. Clark I think I have a client for you and I said, “It’s me.” Jim, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I had read her material. I liked her thoughts she was obviously shopped, had incredible endorsements and she seemed like, I don’t know if I’m helpable, I’m beyond help, I just made detours too many turns too far back that this was not correctable. But I said, “Here’s what I want to do. And so she sharp, wise, insightful and said, “So, I’m clear your goal would be to attract higher quality clients that you’re a match for with less—and so she got it. So, she went under the diagnostic work, did her magic work, came back with the feedback report and I’m sitting there thinking, “Wow, this is what it’s like to be on the other side of me” this is me taking my own medicine now and it’s not easy.

And so you read this data report and you gulp and you start sweating and it’s both depressing and it’s like, yap I knew that and well I hadn’t thought of that before and oh, my gosh and then you said okay let’s get on with the plan. And it turns out—first of all, the things that I was doing is not the things I should have been doing I wasn’t anywhere the things I should have been doing. So to your point before but we have to show the world who we are, she said, if you’re a goal for you and your firm was to be the best kept secret in consulting you’ve done great. She said, but you’re spending all of your time talking to people who know you. There’s nobody—she said that, I couldn’t have actually—to find you was difficult—she did offer digital pathways and she said you’re needed to phase out, really do a major pivot and talk to people to the clients you want in ways they need to hear it who have no idea who you are now. I’m like, that sounds like a great theory, how do you do that? I mean I really had no idea. And then she started telling me the ideas she had on my—I can’t—that’s not—no—I thought she was nuts. I thought—she said, just trust me. And at every given point in the process she has pushed me to do things. And at this point in my career it’s not like I’m afraid of stuff it’s just like now it’s a practical thing, I’m too old or I passed that or I don’t know if I can do but just a lot of angst about—or just thinking that the ideas would, not dumb but like not applicable to me.

But she’s gracious, and said, just trust me just do it or stop whining just do it. And I tell you Jim we just begun our second year of work together and I think it’s just getting good. But the notion of having to learn a whole new set of muscles at a very seasoned part of your career it can be done. And if you had told me a year ago, a year from now you’ll have written 58 articles for HPR and Forbes you have been on 25—I’m like, what pills did you take? Cause I want some of them. But I would have—absolutely said, this is no way any of the— if you would have said, here’s the kinds of people you’re going to interview for your column, here’s the kind of new relationships you’re going to form these kinds of people, I would have said you’re absolutely a psychopath. And yet here we are and I’m thinking, can we just consolidate those winds and she said, no we’re getting warmed up.

So, the major lesson there, ask help. Like asking for help is a great thing there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell I could have done any– first of all I wouldn’t even known to do it and it’s gone extremely well and I was able to take skills that I have and applied them to new context. But without the guide of somebody who knew what to do, I would have been wandering around aimlessly in the wilderness even more discouraged than I was when I called her. And so I’m like, wow, I hope people for this delighted when they call me for my help. I feel having asked for the expertise of somebody that I didn’t have and just get some guidance and some support along the line, change is hard enough as it is but without help I don’t know how you do it.

Jim Rembach: Thanks for sharing that story, Ron. I keep telling myself the same type of thing and often find that I put a roadblocks for myself. I’ve been trying to do a better job of seeking the wisdom of others. I always say that the good Lord actually made our eyes point.

Ron Carruci : I think the good Lord made our faces so we couldn’t see them because we’re making the others, we’re made to be in relationship. It’s not about what you do to or for other people it’s what you do with them. And we are intended that the only transformational experience we have in life is in relationship. There’s no change of merit that ever happens of any kind that is in the context of a relationship and you can’t do it yourself. The idea of self-improvement is an oxymoron it doesn’t happen that way and so you have to have help.

Jim Rembach: So, you’ve heard here at the Fast Leader Legion, Ron Carucci just brought down a multi-trillion dollar industry of self-help.

Ron Carruci : Well, let’s get realized about that industry. Those people are looking to sell their help, so by virtue of the fact that you’re reading a book means you’re not doing it yourself. The question is are words on a page going to do it? And they’re not. Because anything you put into practice, anything you put into play someone else has to be touched by it and if they don’t know you’re doing it and then you’re not changing anything.

Jim Rembach: That’s a great point. And I think absolutely that parlays into what we’ve just been talking about as far as the leaders developing their folks and it’s all about being in relationship and being more effective at those things. And even the four things that you found, you can also drill all those back down to relationship components and drivers, trust, all those things.

Ron Carruci : We tell people about those dimensions in the research. They’re not four things, they’re one. You can’t one do breaths with our relationship you can’t do context without decision-making they all require each other. But we did say each of them are one-fourth of one thing. But we did say this, we did notice that when people failed connection, relationship was one of the things that made them fail fastest. You could fake context and breaths before people figure it out, especially if you are in an environment that didn’t value those things. Or you could fake choice if you were around the decision makers. Like connection, especially with peers and direct reports, if one of those was amiss it was like it was like putting gas on a fire it was an accelerant to a demise.

Jim Rembach: Awesome. I know you’ve got a lot of things going on. You talk about the coaching and—thanks for sharing that and showing the vulnerability so that we can all get over our own hump—the work that you’re doing with your firm. All of these things continue to grow your platform being on the Fast Leader show, what’s one of your goals?

Ron Carruci : I would say, and this is part of my coaching awareness—we’re in a season now Jim–we’re in a political season maybe you’ve noticed a few things going on out there –we’re in a season where organizations, as we talked about before their dysfunctional they’re being vilified, obesity, human rights, atrocities, what used to be the pinnacle of employment is now their employer of last resort. People want to be entrepreneurs, working the geek economy, they want to be freelancers everybody wants to go on their own nobody wants to be part of an organization anymore because it’s been this “do the five thing.” Well, it’s companies of help, it’s not like people made this stuff up, thanks Wells Fargo, but in my heart of hearts I still know companies are good. They can do things, they can change the world, they can have impact they can innovate in ways individuals can’t. Actually about the entrepreneurs is they’re all saying, “I want to be thought, I’m part of something greater than myself.” And I’m thinking, “How are going to do that by yourself?” Or like three of you? So I thought it’s an odd desire that “we” thing but maybe you can do a “we” thing for me, it didn’t work.

But I don’t disrespect the aversion, I get it but I think we’re throwing babies out in the bath waters. But now if you presume that our new administration is what it is, if you assume that regulations are going to be quelled a little bit organizations will be turned loose but to do what? And my hope is it’s not to do more crap, I hope. So if I had to say to you, if I had a platform right now of what I do, I want to redeem organizations. I want to reframe how we see them and demonstrate because a lot of great ones out there are doing it. There are great organizations out there with trusting reputations, very socially responsible, very community-minded, treating their people really well, and doing good work in their fields, they’re there. We don’t care about those whole lot but they’re there. And so for me, I’m in a season where I’ve spent my whole life organizing human endeavor and being fascinated by that and studying that improving that and I feel like the one mechanism in the world we have that organizes human endeavor in ways that can be magnificent unlike a football team or a local church committee, which are all great. Organizations can do things can reach that other mechanisms can’t and I feel like I want to turn some heads back and say, maybe they’re not all horrible, maybe entrepreneuring isn’t for everybody. Maybe we should look again, especially by the ones who are doing magnificent things and studied them and see how we emulate them.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick work from our sponsor.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader Legion, now it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Ron, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses they’re going to help us move onward and upward faster. Ron Carucci, are you ready to hoedown?

Ron Carruci : Let’s go hoedown.

Jim Rembach: Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Ron Carruci : I’m still—wherever I work at a virtual firm and leading in a virtual firm takes a lot of work and figuring out what are the creative ways to bring cohesion in connection to a virtual firm, still figuring that out.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Ron Carruci : Leadership is a relationship. It’s about what you do with people not to them or for them.

Jim Rembach: What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Ron Carruci : I have a sense of humor, probably notice that, and I think it’s important that we get people laughing. And to my leaders, my clients never wonder how much I care about them. I put their success first and I have to say some really hard things to them but they always know underneath that I’m really committed to their success.

Jim Rembach: What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Ron Carruci : The fact that I don’t spend my whole life doing it. I do have other parts of my life where I volunteer and have community and have friendships and I spend my life being a human being outside my work.

Jim Rembach: What is one book you’d recommend to our listeners, they could be from any genre, of course we’ll put a link to Rising To Power on our show notes page.

Ron Carruci : Thank you for that. One of my favorite all-time books by Max de Pree called Leadership Jazz, it’s an old timeless text but I just love it. It’s a metaphor of leadership as a jazz musician about the riffing and the innovation that comes from improvisational music. It’s a timeless text that every leader should read.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Ron Carucci. Okay Ron, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. So, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Ron Carruci : I bet it will be fun to go back and see how many of your guests answer the question the same way but I’m going to say at this this, all of the time you angst it over how much or what other people thought of you was wasted because they weren’t thinking about you at all. If we made choices in life free of the projection of judgment of other people, free of the assumption of the ridicule, of the mockery or the hesitancy of what other people thought, it’s a license to be a jerk and be inconsiderate but the guard we put on ourselves because of the judgment and evaluation of others, and organizations put these in place performance or reviews whatever, gosh, the choices I would have made differently, the courage I would have had, the joy I would have not the oppression of—oh, we’re going to break—I would say, gosh, all the folks who are so obsessed of what people are thinking of them, rest assured they’re not thinking about you at all, don’t worry about it.

Jim Rembach: Ron, it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Ron Carruci : You can find me at www.navelant.com. You can find me on Twitter @roncarucci. You can find me on LinkedIn and all those places have individual connections to me so I look forward to hearing from you.

Jim Rembach: Ron Carucci, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

END OF AUDIO

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116: Joshua Spodek: I had to force my friends to read it

Joshua Spodek Show Notes

Joshua Spodek wrote a book and his friends said it sucked and was difficult to read. So he turned it all around and rewrote it. Every time he received feedback no matter how terrible it was there was always something to learn. He finally realize his approach needed to change and it was much more effective. What Joshua learned will help you to move onward and upward faster.

Joshua’s first passion for science and math forced him to overcome the social and emotional challenges of his geekiness that got him picked on growing up and going to public school.

Despite no one in his family knowing anything about integrals or electrons, Joshua majored in physics and eventually get a PhD in astrophysics, helping build an x-ray observational satellite and studying under a Nobel Prize winner.

He loved the subject, and still does, but found research life wasn’t for him. He felt trapped by his education instead of enabled by it.

His escape—co-founding a company based on an invention—became his next passion. He invented a device to put on subway tunnel walls that would show animations to riders moving between stations. After its Atlanta debut, his company installed in New York, then Hong Kong, Tokyo, Europe, and Central America.

The challenges of 9/11 and the early 2000s recession led to the investors to squeeze him out of the company he co-founded.

So he went to business school, where he discovered his third, and greatest, passion, which he is still acting on today. He learned that people could learn about leadership and entrepreneurship—that you didn’t have to be born with special abilities. Unlike science, where learning just made you smarter, learning about these fields improved relationships, well-being, teamwork, and more.

For over a decade, since business school, Joshua has pursued his passion of teaching them. He found that how he teaches is as important as what.

Joshua teaches and coaches leadership and entrepreneurship at New York University, Columbia University, and independently through SpodekAcademy.com. And is the author of Leadership Step by Step: Become the Person Others Follow.

Students from undergraduates to c-suite professionals and entrepreneurs who have sold businesses describe his courses as teaching things critically valuable for their careers that they never thought they could learn in a structured way, while improving their relationships and well-being. They also describe them as fun.

Joshua has lived in Manhattan’s Greenwich Village for over 17 years. His daily habits include posting to his blog, JoshuaSpodek.com and burpees (over 2,900 days, 85,000 burpees, and counting).

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @spodek to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“What I teach is part of the picture, how I teach is a big piece of it.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“You don’t have to be born a leader to lead.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“If you want to overcome challenges a leader faces, you have to do things.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“Leadership is about connecting with people at an emotional level.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“If you work with emotions and motivations you’ll be more effective.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“If you use authority it tends to cause people to push back.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“The time when you use authority is when you don’t have anything better.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“Who are the people and what will motivate them.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“Learning from a text book gets you started, but then you need to practice.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“You have to solve the problem ahead of you to get to the next one.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“You’re never done.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“It would have been much more helpful to lead them to think for themselves.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“Empathy and compassion are skills that we can learn.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“You have to realize where you are and be the best you can at that moment.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“Business is about relationship.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

“Have something you do every day that is healthy, challenging, and active.” -Joshua Spodek Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Advice for others

Practice and exercises help you to become a better leader.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

I’ve a lot to learn and I’ve come very far.

Best Leadership Advice Received

It’s all about the relationship. Business is about relationship.

Secret to Success

Having habits that I do every day that create discipline and diligence.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

To be able to practice effective exercises and build skills.

Contacting Joshua

Website: http://joshuaspodek.com/

Website: http://spodekacademy.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuaspodek/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/spodek

Resources and Show Mentions

Most Likely to Succeed – A national campaign to inspire – and empower – communities across the country to revolutionize their schools for the 21st Century.

Show Transcript:

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

116: Joshua Spodek: I had to force my friends to read it

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader Legion, today I’m excited because the guest that I have on the show today shocked me. Joshua Spodek’s first passion for science and math forced him to overcome the social and emotional challenges of his geek-ness that got him picked on growing up and going to public school. Despite no one in his family knowing anything about integrals or electrons Joshua majored in physics and eventually got a PhD in Astrophysics helping build an x-ray, observational satellite, and studying under a Nobel Prize winner. He loved the subject and still does but found research life wasn’t for him, he felt trapped by his education instead of enabled by it. His escape co-founding a company based on an innovation became his next passion. The challenges of—in the early recession let the investors to squeeze him out of the company he co-founded so he went to business school where he discovered his third and greatest passion which he is still acting on today. He learned that people could learn about leadership and entrepreneurship that you didn’t have to be born with special abilities. Unlike science where learning just made you smarter, learning about these fields improved relationships, well-being, teamwork and more.

For over a decade since business school Joshua has pursued his passion of teaching them he found that how he teaches is as important as what. Joshua teaches and coaches leadership and entrepreneurship at New York University, Columbia University and independently through

spodekacademy.com. And as the author of Leadership Step-by-Step become the person that others follow students from undergraduates to C-Suites, professionals and entrepreneurs who have solve businesses described his courses and teaching things critically valuable to their careers that they never thought they could learn in a structured way while improving their relationships and well-being they also describe them as them as fun.

Joshua has lived in Manhattan’s Greenwich Village for over years. His daily habits include posting to his blog, joshuaspodek.com and Burpees over, 2,900 days, 85,000 burpees and counting. Joshua Spodek are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Joshua Spodek: Yes. Oh! My god, I just turned half my life all at once. I just laughed, I cried, I was proud, I was ashamed, I was humiliated, that was just my whole life—half my life before my eyes.

Jim Rembach: I think as I say, I think they get people medication for that.

Joshua Spodek: Yeah, it was a very intense retelling—I said, Oh! My god. Yeah, so it’s great and I was like. Oh, my god I can’t believe that happened. Oh, that was great, Oh, I can’t believe that happened. Yes, I’m ready.

Jim Rembach: I’ve given our Legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Joshua Spodek: Yes. By far my biggest passion is I teach and I coach leadership and entrepreneurship but it’s important to get across that what I teach is part of the picture it’s how I teach is a big piece of it. In business school I learned—that’s what they taught in their classes in leadership and entrepreneurship that taught me that you don’t have to be born a leader. Up until then I thought—you look at Martin Luther King, I can’t speak like that I can’t do what he did but then I learned that you could. What they taught me through case study and lecture and reading psychology papers and what I learned is that if you want to teach that stuff, do you want to overcome social and emotional challenges in order to face the social and emotional challenges that a leader faces, you have to do things. And so my passion is not just—if you think that I teach like someone who lectures, that’s not it. It’s very important that I give you exercises that force you to do things in your life that matter to you and you face these challenges and overcome them. Sorry for the long answer.

Jim Rembach: Well no that isn’t the long answer. For me I find it very intriguing because for example when you start thinking about—looking at your initial foray into education and career I mean the old joke is about things being complex or not being simple and when the things are simple and we say that, hey it’s not rocket science because we think rocket science is so darn complex. Some of the things that you were doing with the astrophysics, to me that that just seems extremely complex. It reminds me of a conversation that a friend of mine had who actually was or is a Phd in Human Behavior was having a conversation with a teacher who is a rocket scientist and she said, “, my work is significantly harder than yours and he kind of laughs” and he goes “but I’m a rocket scientist, right? And so she told him she goes. “Well, for your work if I’m talking about a rocket I have so much thrust I have so much gravitational pull I’m pointing the rocket in a certain direction and I know within a high degree of certainty that thing’s going to land right over there.” And he goes, “Yeah, that’s right. She goes, “You try to do that with people.” It gets so complex. So, I think when you start thinking about where you came from and where you are now even though it seems like you went from complex to simple I think you went the other direction.

Joshua Spodek: Oh, man. If you put an electron in a magnetic field it will do the same thing every time that’s repeatability and physics and the pursuit is to find the simplicity underneath everything. People on the other hand, people do not do the same thing every time it’s different every time it’s a totally different direction and that was a big thing that hampered me at the beginning. In fact, one of my big challenges when I started in the business world when I left and started my first company I was CEO so I was running the company but I didn’t think of it this way then. But looking back I looked at people like there are physical objects like they were tools. And I would say, do this and I didn’t understand why they wouldn’t want to do it and it really held me back because leadership to me is about connecting with people on an emotional level and being able to motivate them through their emotions. If you just think of emotions it’s like some weird thing which is how I looked at it, they were too complex for me I didn’t get it. So, that was—yeah, I agree there’s a lot more simplicity in physics and math people from the outside don’t see it that way but the inside I agree.

Jim Rembach: And then the other thing is when I started looking at—and in previewing your book I expected, knowing that you came from the world of physics and things like that, that I was going to get this really complex, detailed book structure and what I found was just the opposite. Your book is broken down into four units and the units are: understanding yourself, leading yourself, understanding others and then leading others, I’m like boom mic drop that’s—if you can do those things you’re good to go.

Joshua Spodek: Yeah. Look, I got to (inaudible 7:40) that was a long time ago, that was in the year 2000, so almost two decades ago and in the meantime I realized that what was holding me back was holding a lot of people back and the same process of what’s going on here? How can I understand it? How can I communicate it to others? I applied that to leadership. When I say leadership a lot of people think, a guy in a suit or damn this images. And also when people think entrepreneurship they think shark tank and my courses are anything but that and really what leadership is about for me it’s not telling people what to do. I want to really distinguish between having authority and leading people. A big piece of what bought my staff out was that—I had a lot of clients that come to me and a lot of them would complain about their bosses. I’m sure people listen to this that had problems that their boss is really difficult to deal with and a lot of their visions of leadership, their beliefs and their mental models about leadership were that if I have authority over someone I can tell them what to do and if I don’t I accept what it’s telling me and if I’m a boss I just have to take it.

To enable my clients to leave their bosses I had to find tools that would work for them and this is for me as well and what you have access to is you have access to people’s emotion. If don’t care if you’re if trying to motivate someone who’s above you in a hierarchy below you and hierarchy, parallel or outside the hierarchy, if it’s a client or some of you trying to work with or if it’s a husband or wife or kid, they have emotions, they have motivations and if you work with those emotions and motivations you’re going to be able to motivate them a lot more effectively than if you just use authority. If you use authority that tend to get people to push back it tends to provoke resistance. So, yeah, I spent a long time trying to get what’s going on with people’s emotions and motivations underneath besides trying to motivate people through external incentives like offering the bonuses or threatening them with demotions or something like that. And it turns out, generally, you can lead people more effectively this way.

Jim Rembach: You can. I would also say that there’s a right place, right time, for a lot of different things and circumstances they talk about situational leadership. And when you start talking about authority it’s not that you should totally lose your authority it’s just that you want to use it at the appropriate time where it’s going to allow and enable the greatest effect. Because even when you start talking about the different generations in the workplace and things like that is that a lot of folks you essentially have to call them out and say, “Hey, look this is what’s expected and I’ve tried to connect with you and get you to do those things but this is what you have to do.” That has to be very authoritative in nature but you don’t want to definitely do it from the get going on the start, but authority does have its place.

Joshua Spodek: Yeah. I won’t disagree with that. You did two things there, you spoke with authority but you also spoke very clearly and directly. The clear indirect is excellent. To me the time when you use authority is when you don’t have anything better. And there definitely times, if it’s a time crunch and three people each has a different way of doing it and the person has authority, that’s an appropriate time, I agree—you say, “Look, we don’t have time to discuss this we have to get this done or we’re going to lose this client and I may be wrong I may be right but we have to pick one way of doing it I’m the authority so let’s do it this way.” Like that’s an example I think, it’s appropriate, I would agree. But I would then make sure after what I’d circled back and say look I’m not sure if there’s a right way I’m not sure if it was wrong way but let’s revisit this and see what we can learn from it. If I step on any toes that I make any mistakes because it’s dangerous. If you can do something better this is like a tautology, if you do something better do the better thing.

Jim Rembach: Well, I think what you just explained right there is a really good point and a lot of that does come down to practice. And knowing when to be to essentially pull the right thing out of the tool kit at the right time and you’re going to fail with that too. When you start talking about the tools and the mechanisms and things like that, have you been able to help folks identify when to pull the right tool at the right time?

Joshua Spodek: Yeah. And one of the big thing is, how do you know what the right tool is? One of the major things that comes out of my practice is listening to others and paying attention and being aware of them. Generally, it’s going to be a mix of what the task is at hand and also who the people are. A lot of people look for when is the right time to do this? When is the right time to do that? And I think it’s not that you look at the external circumstances although they factored in but also who are the people and what will motivate them. The more you get to know people ahead of time, spend time with them understanding what they need and what works for them what doesn’t work for them when it’s not a crisis or when you have luxury of time things like that and that will tell you what is appropriate at the time when you need it.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s a great point that you bring up because I think everybody from a time crunch perspective doesn’t have the luxury to be able to sit and have dialogue and sometimes you do just have to make a decision and move forward. I think where most people have problems is that actually in making a decision and moving forward is that’s where they stop and so how do you get how do people get past the fear and pass the roadblock so that they can actually execute more? Because when you start thinking about innovation, creativity, when you start talking about being able to accomplish something, you have to execute. And they talk about how that’s the one of the problems that we have in our world today is that people—they may take the time to strategize, they may take the time to plan and do all that but when it comes to the actual execution point that tipping point that’s where they fall down.

Joshua Spodek: Well there’s a lot of factor in here. I made a little note here when you’re in crisis situation, when things are difficult my model there is the measure of a great quarterback. This is one leader it’s not the only place where people live but the measure of a great quarterback is not just how he runs plays, does he run the play perfectly? It’s what does he do when the play falls apart, that’s when the really great quarterback shine. Anyone can pilot a boat when the weather is calm and the seas are calm and you got a light breeze, it’s what you do you when the wind is going all over the place and the waves are really high and there’s white water all over the place. And I think that the way to develop your skills for those areas—I mean, the only way is through experience. Learning from a textbook that’ll get you started but then you have to practice and practice and practice. And I think the more variety of situations you see with the more variety of people that’s how you develop these things. My practice is—it’s difficult if you just throw someone into wolves right off the bat and start them on this big, big, big challenges the way to get to the really hard stuff is first you practice with the easy stuff. You run simple play or if you’re learning to play an instrument you start with scales and you put them in front of a small group of people and then you build and build and build more and more challenges.

And so you talked about this four units in my book and each of those units is broken down into several different exercises. And the first exercise in the book is really easy it’s not that hard anyone can do it, it doesn’t involve other people. The next one builds on that it’s a little bit more challenging and after you do a bunch more you’re on to a really advanced stuff that if you started there it would be probably overwhelming and difficult but because the one before was just a little bit less challenging than that this one’s you can handle. And the same in any leadership situation, what I didn’t get in school was that kind of practice they just said, “Here’s what you do and here are the principles but not how to put them in practice.

Jim Rembach: We can sit here and we can read volumes and it could take an entire lifetime but it doesn’t mean that our behavior and what we do is going to have an effect or an impact. But when you start talking about leadership then there’s a whole lot of inspiration that is associated with it because it is so full of emotion. And on the show we look at quotes to help us really focus and stir up and get those emotions going. Is there a quote or two that you can share that you like?

Joshua Spodek: Yeah, there’s two quotes. One is pretty long and when I was looking it up on my computer I have this file of quotes and I make my file quotes smaller and smaller because I like to get—the better ones just keep floating to the top. And so I’m going to go to—the one that I was originally going to go with, I just love this quote. It was a wanted help wanted ad for an expedition, I hope you’ve heard it and it says, “Men wanted for hazardous journey. Small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, and safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success.” Could you imagine seeing that in a newspaper wanted, like a classified ad?

Jim Rembach: So, yeah, that actually has to do with the pole expedition.

Jim Rembach: Yeah. That particular ad from what I understand actually had thousands of responses.

Joshua Spodek: It also reminds me of a movie that was a great movie, a movie with great lessons to learn about entrepreneurship was the Martian with Matt Damon a little while ago. One of the things I loved about that movie is there’s all these problems that he faced. And every single problem led to success but then another problem came up, success then another problem came up, success then another problem came up, success then another problem came up and you couldn’t plan for the third problem when you’re working on the first one, you just have to deal with what’s there at the time. The movie was a really cool science-fiction but I think that the lesson, you have to solve a problem ahead of you and you have to solve it and if you solve it you can get to the next problem and if you solve that when you get to the next problem but you’re never done.

Jim Rembach: When you start talking about being able to take things forward and take them to the next level and be able to improve our skills and abilities we have humps that we have to get over. And there’s learnings and a whole slew of wisdom if we choose to pay attention to it and leverage it they will set us off in a better direction. Is there a hump where you had to get over that you can share that sets you in a better direction?

Joshua Spodek: Yeah. I haven’t thought about this in a long time until now. My book is just coming out so I’m thinking back of how the book began and this was before I met my agent, my editor before anyone was helping me. In fact, before I did all—you mentioned in the introduction I’ve written a lot and so when I hadn’t really written that much and I had—all the IDS in my book I was like, I want to write this book and I just wrote out a book and I gave it to a couple friends to read and they came back and they didn’t—like after a month they hadn’t read it. After another month they hadn’t read it. After another month they hadn’t read it and I have to force my friends to read it. And they come back after and they’re like Josh, “Your book sucks. It was really painful to read.” And they said, “Now when I got to the end of it I really sense some really good ideas in there but I really did not like reading this book. It was really daunting, it was not pleasant.”

So I went back and I thought, all right, I’m ending with the good stuff I guess I have to turn all the way around and start with the good stuff and figure out how to rewrite this book. And so when I rewrote it somehow transformed from a book into a presentation. I thought, oh I’m going to make this into a course, I’ll teach. So I invited some friends over, one at a time, and I would go through this presentation, I don’t know who creates presentations in their spare time, but you can see how this would lead to becoming a professor and people come over and like they would stop me in the middle and be like, I can’t take anymore this. And they push back on the parts that I thought were the most interesting, this is really not going anywhere this is really difficult. I knew that there was really important stuff in there and I was just getting all the stuff that was like people pushing back and pushing back and not liking it.

But every time that they gave me a feedback no matter how terrible they said it was there was always something to learn from it. In fact, one of the friends—we begin to fight and I was really angry at him. He and his girlfriend they’re over here and I was telling him –like I was trying to present to them and they were telling me that most important stuff was like worthless and I got so angry and then it took a long time before I realized I was really pushing stuff on people that it would have been much more helpful for me just to leave them to think for themselves and let them come to their own conclusion that is to give them less and let them discover more. That’s how I change from being someone who is telling them what to do instead of trying to give the answers I realize it’s going to be much effective to give them an experience that would let them create their own answers for themselves, it’s a kind of abstract what I’m saying here.

Jim Rembach: Well, it isn’t for me because I think what you were explaining in regards to the lecture and being able to give information and telling them what they need to know that is what a professor does, they bestow information upon people. It’s a very different approach to actually draw people in and being able to build that suspense, build that intrigue, build that curiosity, build that wonder and get people to essentially—instead of you pulling them they’re actually grabbing the rope and just trying to get closer and closer towards you that’s a totally different shift and dynamic that you went through the activities and exercises to be able to learn. So, what happened?

Joshua Spodek: If I can jump ahead to an epiphany that I had. I was visiting a friend’s school. A friend of mine is a founding principal of a school in Philadelphia and I went to visit it because the fourth class, they started the first year there was ninth grade and by the time those ninth graders graduated Barack Obama came to speak to the graduating class Bill Gates had already spoken there, this is incredible so, I went to go visit the school. I’m talking to him and he says, “Do you want a tour? And I go, “Yeah” and he just stopped some random kids walking by who was a tenth grader—some 15 year old kid shows me around the school, I had an MBA by this point, and this 15 year old kid had leadership skills in many ways on par with MBA’s that I knew. But the MBA’s took leadership courses and the 15 year old did not. And I was like, “What’s going on here?” I would ask the student, how does the school run in this way” and students say, “Well the teachers do this, the principal is—how’s the kid notice? And that’s when I realized that what you’re talking about the difference between lecturing and pull the people and give them an environment for them to discover things for themselves and that’s what that school was built on and I felt like I went back to the drawing board I’d decades of learning one way. And I just saw a different way from the outside at first and I kept going back to his school because there is a conference every winter of how this people who teach in this type of community. And I learned from them and I have to back to the drawing board. It was really scary and painful and you have to be humble, because I’m a university professor and I’m learning from grade school teachers. If you look at authority I did not know how it’s supposed to be, it should go not that way. But if you look at who is effective and who was not effective they were effective and I was not, I need to back to the drawing board and learn from them.

Jim Rembach: I think that’s a great story and a lot of nuggets of wisdom that we can pull from that. So when you start thinking about—you got the book, you’ve got all your burpees and a lot of things going on, what’s one of your goal?

Joshua Spodek: Oh, man. I believe that empathy and compassion and initiative creating meaning, creating value, creating passion I view those things not as traits that people are either born with or not but it’s skill that you can learn. And what I hope, one of my hope’s in my book is that it turn those things into a widely held view that they are skills that you can learn like learning to ride a bicycle. That anyone in the world they want to become more empathic more compassionate but they want to have more initiative but they want to be able to create passion to the people around them that they say, Oh, I just do a bunch of exercises Josh’s book is a good place but it’s not the only place. Just imagine the world where everybody is a bit more compassionate to everybody else because they know how to become that way.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor:

Jim Rembach: All right here we go Fast Leader Legion, it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Joshua, the Hump Day Hoedown, is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Joshua Spodek are you ready to hoedown?

Joshua Spodek: I’m ready to hoedown.

Jim Rembach: Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Joshua Spodek: I don’t believe that I’m the best leader in the world. I don’t believe that I’m the best leader that I can possibly be in the future but for where I am now I believe that I’m the best I can be. I’ve a lot to learn but I’ve come very far. And so I think that you have to realize where you are and be the best you can be at that moment.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Joshua Spodek: In the most difficult times the professor of mine who became on the board he just always said, “It’s all about the relationships.” And every time I just always learned that over and over again. It’s the relationship that you have they help you when you’re in trouble, they help you when things aren’t going well, business is about relationship.”

Jim Rembach: What was one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Joshua Spodek: It’s becoming less my secret all the time but the structure, the burpees, the writing every day, having habits that I do every day creating that structure and I don’t fail with doing those and that could be discipline and diligence and anybody can do it. Have daily exercises, have something that you do that is challenging, healthy, active.

Jim Rembach: What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Joshua Spodek: It’s hard for me not to say all the stuff that’s in my book. It’s the reason I made the book is to put those tools out there. And so to be able to practice effective exercises that develop skills and I put I put everything I had in there.

Jim Rembach: What would be one book and it could be from any genre, of course we’ll put a link to yours on there on the show knows page, but what would be another book that you’d recommend to our listeners?

Joshua Spodek: Alright can I mention two?

Jim Rembach: Sure.

Joshua Spodek: Okay. Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, is a book on negotiation and is the book that changed business for me from getting ahead and like winning at all costs to being nonzero-sum and winning together different people. And then the other one is Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, which is to me tells you what you are capable of what every human being is capable of and he was just was able to succeed and create life himself so much better than what his circumstances would allow and that tells all of us what we were able to do.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Joshua Spodek. Okay, Joshua this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything you can only choose one, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Joshua Spodek: Definitely the ability to take risks by putting faith and having confidence in my own ability to resolve situations. I was in graduate school at the time in physics and I felt so trapped. I felt if I tried to do something different I might fail and then I would be lost. And going off and trying something new is exactly what got me out of what the feeling so trap. I call the entrepreneurship it was really taking a risk and having confidence. Whatever came my way I’d be able to handle it and I just didn’t know how then, and it’s probably the biggest resource that I’ve had sinned.

Jim Rembach: Joshua, it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Joshua Spodek: Yeah. My personal blog is @joshuaspodek.com and that’s where I write about my view on the world from a leadership perspective. And then my professional site spodekacademy.com is where my courses are available and that’s the more professional side. On Twitter @spodek and my last name Spodek is pretty rare so if you want to find out more about me you just search on me you’ll find lots of articles and things like. And then on the two sites there’s also forms that you can contact me. I look forward to hearing from anybody, I’m happy to answer question.

Jim Rembach: Joshua Spodek, than you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

END OF AUDIO

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072: Susan Fowler: This is a chance for me to live my values

Susan Fowler Show Notes

Susan Fowler has a career that requires a lot of travel. But travel had become a pain in the neck and getting through security raised Susan’s tension and stress. Then Susan realized she had an opportunity to live her values. Listen to her story of how she aligned with her values so it can help you to move onward and upward faster.

Susan was born and raised in Enid, Oklahoma and Raised in Denver, Colorado as the oldest of four children.

Susan discovered the power of teaching at an early age when her sister, Terri, was born with spina bifida, paralyzed from the waist down and retarded from water on the brain. Doctors explained that if Terri lived, she would never have the mentality beyond that of a 3 year old.

Terri did live and Susan couldn’t help but notice a spark in her sister’s bright blue eyes. Defying the doctors’ diagnoses, Susan used rather innovative techniques, to teach her sister to read and write. Terri became the first handicapped child integrated into the Colorado school system. Doctors asked her parents: How did Terri learn to read and write? Their answer: Our 12-year-old daughter, Susan.

Susan has never stopped teaching—or leaning. Her motto is “I teach what I most need to learn.” She is the lead developer of product lines taught globally to tens of thousands of people through the Ken Blanchard Companies, including Situational Self Leadership and Optimal Motivation.

Susan is the author of six books, including the bestselling Self Leadership and The One Minute Manager with Ken Blanchard and her newest bestseller Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work… And What Does.

Susan lives and works with her husband, Drea Zigarmi, in sunny San Diego where she is also an adjunct professor in the University of San Diego’s Masters of Science in Executive Leadership program and a rotating board member of Angel Faces, a nonprofit group dedicated to teaching adolescent girls how to cope with transfiguring burns and trauma.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @fowlersusann to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“What’s the penny you want to leave the world?” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“If people understood the nature of their own motivation, it would transform their lives.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“It is our basic human nature to thrive.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Nobody wants to be bored and disengaged.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“People want to make a meaningful contribution.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“We all want to grow and learn every day.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“We assume without incentives or rewards that people won’t do what there’re asked to do.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“What is it that promotes thriving and what is it that erodes thriving?” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Suboptimal motivation is what erodes people’s natural ability to thrive.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“We know how to promote thriving through our psychological needs.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Things that people think they have been motivated by are eroding the things they need to thrive.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“There’s an entire industry devoted to providing junk food motivation to workers.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“It’s important to do the right things for the right reasons.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“If you ask, is a person motivated? It’s the wrong question.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“People are always motivated. The questions is, why are they?” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Not all motivation is created equal.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“When it comes to motivation, the reason is what matters most.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Whenever you feel tension you are in a suboptimal motivational outlook.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“We are never going to love everything we do.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“We’re never going to have passion for everything we do.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Try to make a difference in someone’s life every day.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“I got a wonderful opportunity to live my purpose every single day.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Leadership is from the inside out; it’s got to be about the people you lead.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

“Care more about how people are feeling as a result of your presence.” -Susan Fowler Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Advice for others

When it comes to motivation, the reason is what matters most.”

Holding her back from being an even better leader

I judge too much. Myself and others.

Best Leadership Advice Received

Make sure you are prepared for leadership. Leadership is from the inside out. It can’t be about your needs, it’s got to be about the needs of the people you lead.

Secret to Success

Have a deeply felt sense of purpose.

Best tools that helps in business or Life

I can talk really fast.

Contacting Susan

Website: http://susanfowler.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-fowler-955a174

Twitter: https://twitter.com/fowlersusann

Resources

Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work . . . and What Does: The New Science of Leading, Energizing, and Engaging

Creating an even better place to work

Show Transcript:

[expand title=”Click to access edited transcript”]

072: Susan Fowler: This is a chance for me to live my values

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

An even better place to work is an easiest solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement unleash of skills in everyone. Using this this award winning solution’s guarantee to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with their colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit beyongmorale.com/better.

Jim Rembach: Okay Fast leader Legion today I am just so thrilled because I have the opportunity to share with you somebody who has written one of really my top 10 reads of all time. Susan Fowler was born in Enid, Oklahoma and raised in Denver, Colorado as the oldest of four children. Susan discover the power of teaching at an early age when her sister Terry was born with spina bifida, paralyzed from the waist down and retarded from water on the brain. Doctors explained if Terry live she would never have the mentality beyond the age of a three-year-old. Terry lived and Susan couldn’t help but notice a spark in her sister’s bright blue eyes. Defying the doctor’s diagnosis Susan used rather innovative techniques to teach her sister how to read and write. When Terry became the first handicapped child integrated into the Colorado school system doctors asked her parents how did Terry learn to read and write? Their answer, our 12-year-old daughter Susan.

Susan has never stopped teaching or learning. Her motto is: I teach what I most need to learn. She is the lead developer of product lines taught globally tens of thousands of people through the Ken Blanchard companies including Situational Self Leadership and Optimal Motivation. Susan is the author of six books including the best-selling self-leadership and the One Minute Manager with Ken Blanchard and her newest bestseller Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work and What Does? And I’m telling you this has to be your Amazon five-star review. Susan lives and works with her husband Drea Zigarmi in sunny San Diego where she is also an adjunct professor at the University of San Diego’s Masters of Science and Executive Leadership Program and a rotating board member of Angel Faces a nonprofit group dedicated to teaching adolescent girls how to cope with transfiguring burns and trauma. Susan Fowler, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Susan Fowler: I am. I think I never felt better about myself in listening to you read that bio.

Jim Rembach: Oh, you’re too much. I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better.

Susan Fowler: You know Jim a number of years ago my husband asked me, Susan what’s the penny you want to leave the world? And I was really deep in a research around motivation and I have been, as you said the lead developer of a self-leadership for the Ken Blanchard companies, and I realized that the research on motivation was so compelling and really makes a difference in people’s lives and I said, You know, I want to be the person that takes the research around motivation and makes it accessible for the greatest number of people because I honestly believe that if people understood that nature of their own motivation I will transform their lives. So in that moment he helped me catalyzed my life purpose which is to be a catalyst for good but through the science of motivation. And so he says now too—once I got my hammer everything’s a nail, I look at everything through that prism of motivation. What’s compelling people? What are their values and how was what they’re doing related to what I’ve learned through the science of motivation? And it’s so exciting, it’s really fun.

Jim Rembach: Okay Susan, thanks for sharing that. You talk about passion and connection and all of those things and I think that’s kind of one that had done it for me. I actually purchase your book on Kindle and I had to get the hardcopy too because for me I’m like, I want to annotate on lower place and I’m not an expert annotator on my kindle yet—I don’t know if I ever will. But I was just like—this had so much impact and meaning to me and so different in so many different ways. One of the things I found really compelling is when you start looking at optimal motivation and how as you continue past it there’s kind of a point where it doesn’t become as optimal. Help me understand that a little bit better?

Susan Fowler: Well, if I could start with the basic premise—the basic premise that I think is one of the great discoveries in motivation science is that it is our basic human nature to thrive. In other words nobody want to be bored and disengaged. People want to make a meaningful contribution they even appreciate a challenge and we all want to grow and learn every day. All of that is actually the antithesis of the way we treat people in the workplace especially. We kind of assume that without incentives or rewards or bride people won’t do what they’re asked to do, that they’re basically are lazy until you give them something to motivate them. So if we start with a different premise and the premise is that people by nature want to thrive. Then we ask what is that promote thriving and what is it that erodes thriving? And what we call suboptimum motivation is what we have discovered erodes people’s natural ability to thrive. And so we are motivated by rewards, incentives, bribes, power, status, image, peer pressure, tension, guilt, shame, disinterest, overwhelmed, when were motivated in those ways, those are considered suboptimal because they actually erode what I think is the most extraordinary finding in motivation science and that is we know how to promote thriving through our psychological needs. So all of those things that people think had been motivated by are actually eroding the very things they need in order to thrive.

It does and for those that who haven’t had the opportunity to read the book that are listening, I said you’ve got to have this book, for me it’s going to be a desk reference for many years. You talked about junk food, and many of the things that I see organizations doing in regards employee engagement as well as customer engagement for that matter, are really those junk food items that quite frankly, they spend millions if not billions on, and there’s some pretty large companies who are providing products and services to fit that need, so it’s kind of like without getting into the brand names of fast food, it’s kind of like they’re just feeding the junk food problem and everybody’s getting obese to so speak and not being able to engage their employees. What does the company do? There’s a whole, as you said, an entire industry devoted to providing junk food motivation to workers and that’s a tough thing. So that is why I think it’s up to every leader who I helped or has read the book to say—what do I do with the people I lead to help them maneuver in a workplace, in an environment that is pretty much dedicated to unhealthy ways of motivating people. And the smarter organizations get, and I have to tell you, I am starting to work with some really smart organizations and at the very top levels are changing the culture.

I was just in Miami last week, I won’t name names because I’ve signed a nondisclosure agreement, but it’s a major financial institution that I wasn’t sure I wanted to work with because of a reputation was built during the horrible economic crisis and is actually named in that movie, The Big Short in Michael Lewis’s book. So I went to New York City and I met with the CEO and he read my book three times and he was dedicated to changing the culture of this organization and I asked him why. And he said because it’s important for us to do the right thing for the right reasons. Not because the government is coming down on us, not because we have to do it by law in the near future but because it’s the right thing to do. And for that reason I signed on to work with them and I just met with 200 of their top level executives and we talked about changing the culture so that people are not in the financial industry just for financial gain and to make a buck and just charge a higher fees as they possibly can but to focus on what gives them their joy which is helping people become self-sufficient, help them have retirements and they are able to put their kids to college, it was so refreshing Jim. So I do feel like there’s companies that are willing to take a stand, leaders who are willing to start to back the system. But I think where were really going to make headway is with individual leaders who are willing to have conversations with their people and talk to them about their motivation and why they’re motivated.

Jim Rembach: And that is very inspirational to me and if I can help with that in any way and hopefully this show will help do just that and created that awareness I am excited to be able to do that because I’m right there with you, I’m part of your legion.

Susan Fowler: Thank you Jim.

Jim Rembach: You’re welcome. Okay so, gosh, this journey that you’ve been through and what has come to be able to produce this book, now the work you even adeep part of that, I mean there’s just so many inspirational stories that we can use in order to grow that bigger platform and awareness and we use quotes on the show to kind of help us from an inspirational perspective, is there a quote or two that stands out for you that you can share with us?

Susan Fowler: I think, and I’m not even sure and this may have come after I wrote the book, one of the beautiful things about writing a book and then speaking and training and doing all this is that you start to really get to the other side of complexity in a different way. In the book what we say is that if a person is motivated it’s the wrong question, the question is why. People are always motivated, the question is why they’re motivated because not all motivation is created equal. So I think that my quote today is, if I can remember, when it comes to motivation the reason for your motivation is what matters most. So everybody is motivated the question is why, what is the reason and some reasons are higher quality than other reasons. And when I say high quality what I mean by that is that you’ll have later sustained energy, you will produce higher quality, you will have a greater sense of physical and mental well-being, that you will be able to sustain that positive energy overtime and be a greater role model for other people. So the reason for your motivation is what matters most.

Jim Rembach: And talking about that, in order for us to be able to find what our motivation is isn’t always an easy task and so many times we have to get over a hump or two in order to be able to really hone in or identify what our true real motivations are. Is there a time where you can think about where you’ve had to get over the hump and it helped redefine your motivations?

Susan Fowler: Every single day. I have one of those hump experiences a while back. Jim I think that I’m really lucky, I don’t know if you can call it luck but I’ve really designed my career around what I love to do. So I love to talk to people, I love to learn, I love to teach and along with that goes a lot of travel. And anyone who travels knows that today it’s not like it used to be and it’s a pain in the neck. I don’t know if you know the singer songwriter Dan Fogelberg, he was somebody I met when I was at the University of Colorado many, many years ago, and in one of his songs, Same Old Lang Syne, he has this line, the audiences are heavenly but the travel is hell. And I could really, really relate to that, I was standing in line—I don’t stand in line I’m not kind of person my personality is I will look to see which line is shortest and I’m going to get in that shortest line and I’m going to get through the fastest and everything I do is I make sure that I’m not getting in a line that has families, and forgive me for this, but men because men don’t carry purses and so they’re taking everything out their pockets and will take their belts off it takes them forever to get through security. So, I’m like in the shortest line and getting really uptight and really frustrated and then I thought, “Gosh, Susan, this is exactly what you have written about what you talked about all the time, whenever you’re feeling this tension and this pressure you’re in suboptimal motivation outlook so you should do something different.” And I said, “Okay, this is a chance for me to live my values.” What are my values? And I thought, “Okay, I have a value around learning and being patient, so okay, patience is a good thing. What can I learn about myself?

So, anyway, I went to this whole inner talk thing and I said, “Okay, Susan, get in the longest line. So I found the line that had a family in it and I get in line, they have a toddler, a new born, and all the paraphernalia that you can possibly imagine and there’s struggling and they look at me they go, “Do you want to go ahead of us?” Because I’m pretty organized you know, and I go, “No, No, No, it’s fine.” And so they’re trying to get all their stuff up and finally I go, “Excuse me, you seem to be really struggling here, would it be helpful if I held your baby? And they look at me and “Yeah.” And I’m thinking, oh, this is awesome because I love babies, I love holding babies. And so they get to the line, and actually I just start to go through security and I said, “Excuse me you do want your baby?” they were so plastered like, “Oh, yeah, give us our baby.” On the other side I took the baby again helped them get all their stuff together and then we all went on out merry way. At the gate I see the man coming towards me and he says, “Excuse me, this is the first time we’ve ever travelled with this two kids and we didn’t even stop to thank you. We just want you to know how much we appreciate your kindness. I don’t know that we could have gotten through this without you.” And all this, I have to tall you Jim, I literally had goosebumps and I was thinking, “Oh, my gosh, I love holding that baby it was so much fun and I did some good for people, wow, this is really cool.” And so now I actually enjoy going through security and finding ways that I can be helpful to people it’s totally change my energy going through security at the airport. We are never going to love everything we do. We’re never going to have passion for everything we do but if we really understand what are values are and can find a way to live those values or sense of purpose to whatever we’re doing, it really changes the quality of your life. And so how that was it too long or too silly but I think that all the time because I travel a lot, so I think about it every day.

Jim Rembach: Thanks for sharing that. That was a real world hump that probably so many people can resonate with and because I know even myself, I’m like, okay I need to get all my stuff, and I need to get— instead of thinking about others that I can potentially help. So now I have a very different perspective when I have to go through security line.

Susan Fowler: I share this with a friend and now he’s in his (16:35 inaudible) and he says that when he goes through security he’s like, how can I help people laugh? And he’s a real jokester and he’s really funny, so now he’s like helping people laugh within the guidelines of the TSA.

Jim Rembach: An important note. We had talked earlier about some of the work that you’re doing at many different levels and also about this particular book and of course a lot of research behind it and you have so many things going on, all the traveled course and I know the relationship with your husband and all of those things there’s just so many things on the plate. But if you’re to say that you had one goal, what would it be?

Susan Fowler: I don’t know if it’s a goal because I don’t have one goal Jim but I definitely have a very important purpose. I stated it earlier but let me just clarify it. My purpose is to be a catalyst for good and to use the science of motivation as the impetus for that. So, I have a goal when I speak that if I can make a difference in one person’s life that I’ve made a difference and that’s good enough. And so at the end of the presentations or a training session if just one person comes up and says thank you for being here today, I think that was a good reason to be there that day. And it’s interesting if you change one person or you help one person you usually end up doing it to a lot more people because at least speaking to individuals and not just kind of feeding your own ego or your own needs. So, I guess if I had a specific goal, my smart goal, would be to try to make a difference in someone’s life every day through a conversation, thorough an interaction, through my formal training or speaking or writing. And I’m writing every day, I’m writing a blog, or I’m writing a tweet or at LinkedIn message. You know, I’m having multiple conversations with clients and sales people every day so I’ve got wonderful opportunity to live my purpose and achieve that goal every single day.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsors.

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Now here we go Fast Leader listeners, it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay Susan, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Susan Fowler, are you ready to hoedown?

Susan Fowler: If I can ** fast.

Jim Rembach: What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Susan Fowler: My judgement. I judge too much, myself and others.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Susan Fowler: To make sure that you are prepared for leadership, that leadership is from the inside out. It can’t be about your needs, this can be about the needs of the people you lead.

Jim Rembach: What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Susan Fowler: I’m having a deeply felt sense of purpose that I’m hope is a noble purpose.

Jim Rembach: What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Susan Fowler: I think it’s overly fast.

Jim Rembach: What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners, they could be from any genre?

Susan Fowler: Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl.

Jim Rembach: Okay Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Susan Fowler. Okay Susan this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything you can only choose one, so what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Susan Fowler: You know, I read this so many times from people who say that when they get to be my age is that you wish that you hadn’t care so much what other people are thinking about you I think to care more about how people are feeling as a result of your presence. To be less self-centered, to be less worried about my own image and more concerned about how I’m affecting the energy and quality of life of the people around.

Jim Rembach: Susan, it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with the Fast Leader listeners how they can connect with you?

Susan Fowler: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I’ve got a website, www.susanfowler.com and you can also go on Amazon to see the “Why motivating people does not work” book page and there’s all kind of information on there as well.

Jim Rembach: Susan Fowler, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

END OF AUDIO

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