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Jamie Millar | Building Bridges

209: Jamie Millar: A network is something powerful

Jamie Millar Show Notes Page

James (Jamie) Millar needed a different professional platform. He looked around and was unable to find what he wanted to do, the way he wanted to do it. So, he created his own firm that leads executive peer networks to help executives enjoy the insights and relationships they need to succeed.

Jamie was born in Toronto. His family moved to Ottawa when he was six years old. Jamie’s father was a PhD economist who worked for the Canadian government. His mother was a community college teacher.

As a child, Jamie was a strong student who excelled at math and science, but also loved reading, music, and sports. He was one of the first students in an innovative bilingual education program, and much of Jamie’s early instruction was in French—not just language classes, but also math, science, history, and geography.

He even spent four months as a 16-year old in a rural village about 30 miles southeast of Bordeaux, France where he lived with a local family and attended the town’s high school.

Jamie attended the University of Toronto, where he studied Industrial Engineering. Upon graduation, he joined Morgan Stanley in New York as a financial analyst. While there, several colleagues encouraged Jamie to apply to Harvard Business School, where he was admitted.
After graduating from HBS, he joined the School’s MBA Admissions Board. He interviewed and evaluated thousands of talented young business people and developed an interest in the qualities that make great leaders tick.

Jamie left Harvard in 1999 and worked in financial services and at an early-stage start-up before he finally found his calling. In 2004, Jamie joined Tapestry Networks, a firm that creates executive peer networks—invitation-only groups for leaders who should spend time together but usually don’t.

Jamie left Tapestry in 2013 to launch his own firm, SkyBridge Associates. He is also the author of Building Bridges: The Case for Executive Peer Networks, in which he shares many of the insights he has gained over the course of his career.
Jamie currently lives just outside Boston with his wife of 26 years Maribeth and they have three adult children Hailey, Evan and Casey.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to Jamie Millar to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet  

“Networking is a verb; everybody hates networking.” – Click to Tweet   

“Network, the noun, is something that’s very powerful.” – Click to Tweet   

“Beliefs drive behaviors and behaviors drive outcomes.” – Click to Tweet   

“If you want to change anything, it’s not enough to just act differently, you have to actually think differently.” – Click to Tweet   

“There are too few opportunities in life to really reflect on what we think.” – Click to Tweet   

“Many of us assume that what we think is the only thing that you could think.” – Click to Tweet   

“A lot of leadership issues are contextual.” – Click to Tweet   

“With a group of peers from other organizations, you’re a lot safer.” – Click to Tweet   

“It’s hard to envision any relationship that’s productive where the individuals don’t trust each other.” – Click to Tweet   

“People don’t naturally look at issues in their life and put them in the form of good questions.” – Click to Tweet   

“The right questions have the power to reveal assumptions and beliefs.” – Click to Tweet   

“I think a leader has to be a dreamer.” – Click to Tweet   

“Humps create opportunities.” – Click to Tweet   

“We don’t have to have a job, we have to have a career and a life and a profession.” – Click to Tweet   

“The world is awash in money. What the world lacks is good ideas.” – Click to Tweet   

“People trust authentic people.” – Click to Tweet  

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Hump to Get Over

Jamie Millar needed a different professional platform. He looked around and was unable to find what he wanted to do, the way he wanted to do it. So, he created his own firm that leads executive peer networks to help executives enjoy the insights and relationships they need to succeed.

Advice for others

Be comfortable to doing something on your own.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

I do not give negative feedback as well as I should.

Best Leadership Advice

The world is awash in money. What the world lacks is good ideas.

Secret to Success

Curiosity and authenticity.

Best tools in business or life

My ability to build trust and establish relationships.

Recommended Reading

Building Bridges: The Case for Executive Peer Networks

How to Win Friends & Influence People

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change

Contacting Jamie Millar

Website: https://www.skybridge.associates/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-millar-3033/

Resources and Show Mentions

Bob Tiede: Great Leaders Ask Questions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

209: Jamie Millar: A network is something powerful

Intro:     Welcome to the fast leader podcast, where we explore convenient, yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner Jim Rembach. 

Call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our eLearning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen, so go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor’s Success Path e-book now. 

Jim Rembach:     Okay, Fast Leader Legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s really going to help us point out something that is just so plainly obvious, but yet we’re not doing it that hopefully we will start doing it. James Millar or Jamie often known was born in Toronto. His family moved to Ottawa when he was six years old. Jamie’s father was a PHD economist who worked for the Canadian government and his mother was a community college teacher. As a child, Jamie was a strong student who excelled at math and science but also loved reading, music and sports. He was one of the first students in an innovative bilingual education program and much of Jamie’s early instruction was in French, not just language classes, but also math, science, history and geography. He even spent four months as a 16 year old in a rural village, about 30 miles southeast of Bordeaux, France, where he lived with a local family and attended the town’s high school. 

Jamie attended the University of Toronto where he studied industrial engineering. Upon graduation, he joined Morgan Stanley in New York as a financial analyst. While there several colleagues encouraged Jamie to apply to Harvard business school where he was admitted. After graduating from Harvard business school, he joined the schools MBA admissions board and he interviewed and evaluated thousands of talented young business people and developed an interest in the qualities that make great leaders and what makes them tick. Jamie left Harvard in 1999 and worked in the financial services industry at an early startup before he finally found his calling. In 2004 Jamie joined Tapestry Networks, a firm that creates executive peer networks, these invitation only type groups that leaders should spend time together but usually do not. Jamie left Tapestry in 2013 to launch his own firm, which is Skybridge Associates. He’s also the author of Building Bridges: The Case for Executive Peer Networks in which he shares many of the insights he’s gained over the course of his career. Jamie currently lives just outside of Boston with his wife of 26 years, Marybeth and they have three adult children, Hayley, Evan and Casey. Jamie Millar, are you ready to help us get over the hump? 

Jamie Millar:     I am ready. Jim, 

Jim Rembach:      I’m glad you’re here and we’ve had some great discussion prior to hitting the record button, I hope we can carry that on here. I’ve given my legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? 

Jamie Millar:     Well, I think, as you said, what I love to do is to create and build executive peer networks. It’s a fairly simple model on one level, which is basically, you take a group of about 20 people or so who should be getting together. We work a lot with corporate board directors. We work a lot with general counsel of companies. We work with other C level and an executive types. And what you find is that they really have very few opportunities to interact with each other. They have a set of colleagues internally, but they tend to see the world differently. They tend to have different issues. So, getting people together on a regular basis is what we do. And I love doing it. It’s, a ton of fun. I get to meet really interesting people. We get to lead fantastic conversations. And these things go on for years and years. You can find that the conversations you have in meeting number 10 are very different from the ones you have in meeting number one. So that’s really what makes these groups fun is to begin them and work with people many times a year for years at a time. 

Jim Rembach:     Well, you and I had the opportunity to talk about how really this way of learning, which I referred to also as a community of practice, is, really something that could be leveraged at multiple levels within an organization. And oftentimes we get confused to think that, oh, well this is a networking thing, which kind of, I don’t know how many people actually say, hey, networking and get all excited about it because it’s just not something that comes natural to us. But that’s not what we’re talking about here. 

Jamie Millar:     Not at all. Not at all. In fact, that’s a question that a lot of people will ask me. They’ll say, how can I get better at networking? And my answer is don’t. Networking is a verb. Everybody hates networking. , it feels transactional. It feels inauthentic. It’s usually about glad handing and exchanging business cards. That isn’t something people naturally gravitate toward as you said. But the network, the noun is something that’s very powerful and it’s something that every leader and aspiring leader should foster. Really, what we’re talking about is building a network. We’re not talking about networking, which again, the transactional, we’re talking about the relational, right? You’re building relationships with people which are built on trust. And that is I think, very powerful and it’s actually quite appealing to a lot of people. Everybody wants a network. 

Jim Rembach:     Even when you started talking about, the potential power, in this community, and being able to work with people that oftentimes we don’t realize that even maybe your direct competitors, that that can add value. In the book you talk about what I refer to as five leadership troops. And they are, that leadership is more art than science and it’s getting more difficult all the time. Beliefs drive our behaviors and behaviors drive outcomes, so beliefs matter. Leaders are best able to refine their beliefs through conversations with trusted peers. And that even when a group of peers gets together, the design and nature of their interactions rarely supports an increase in trust over time. So when you start, talking about, all of these particular troops, I start thinking about again, that this is at all levels and I had mentioned to you that a call center coach we even work with the frontline supervisors, these are very, very emerging and early leaders oftentimes. Although I can say that some of them that we’re working with have been in that frontline leader role for 10 15 20 years, they’re lifelong supervisors, thank goodness because we need them, but they really get stuck to that, hey, I’ve got all these other things I need to do, all these other tasks that, oh gosh, I have this common burning problem and someone else may have it too. 

Jamie Millar:     Absolutely. And in fact you see that all the time. I think that this gets back to the issue around beliefs the notion that beliefs drive behaviors, behaviors, drive outcomes, If you want to change anything, it’s not enough to just act differently, you have to actually think differently. And I think that part of the problem is that there are too few opportunities in life to really reflect on what we think. I think many of us assume that what we think is the only thing that you could think you’re sort of in a bubble in a way. It could be a bubble of your own personality, it could be a bubble within your organization—this is how we do things here. And what you fail to realize is that there are many other ways of approaching the same set of issues and many other ways of thinking about a set of issues. 

And so just by having an opportunity and a forum to talk with other people, what you’ll find in some cases that it validates your beliefs? Yeah, everyone believes sort of the same thing and so I’m on the right track, that’s fine that’s useful information. But you’ll find another other cases that now someone else believes something quite different and consequently they behave in a very different way. It doesn’t mean that’s better or worse, but at a minimum it gives you something to think about. A lot of leadership issues are contextual. What works in one corporate culture may not apply to another. And so, that’s why we talk not just about what people do, but why they do it. Then then people can pick and choose. They can decide which of these principles work and which don’t. But we’re not looking for best practice we’re just trying to look for understanding, revealing, and more understanding. But I think that you’re right, even at a very low level of leadership, frontline leadership, if you will, there are many ways to skin that cat and many ways to, to approach a set of issues regardless of what they are. So I think it’s a very, very transferable, need and skill set to engage with peers like that. 

Jim Rembach:     I also think it’s important to help these people at that early age to where if they ever do make it up to that senior level and maybe even that suite that they’re already in the practice of doing this. 

Jamie Millar:     And because let’s be honest, the people—if a 25 year old, let’s say, you’re an early stage leader, 25, 30 years old, the group of people who are your peers in other organizations are probably going to stay your peers for the rest of your career. There’s a good chance, right? So why not build that network when you’re 25 years old? It’s a much harder to build that network when you’re 50 years old. It’s much easier to build it and you all sort of grow at the same pace. Some will do better than others obviously, but you find yourself having that access to that network. Again, you’re not networking, but you have access to that powerful network all the way throughout your career. 

Jim Rembach:     I’d also like the raise out one of the points that you had mentioned. You referred to this—an organizational bubble. One of the things that I often find too is that, if you’re only, convening and conveying and communing with your own four walls, your perspectives rarely do change. You need to step outside of that in order to really get different perspectives. Now, you talked about contextual, however, I often see that so many times people use contextual as a barrier to opening up their mind. Oh, well they’re not in the insurance industry, for example. However, when you start looking at the companies that are doing the disrupting, they’re not staying within their own organizational bubble or industry bubble for that matter. 

Jamie Millar:     Absolutely not. You’re right. I think there’s a couple of challenges. You right there’s the knowledge bubble, that you’re not appreciating the range of issues. Within a given industry, the practices maybe, behind the times, right? So you may need to talk with people who are in other industries. We often will have groups that have folks from multiple industries so you have the benefit of learning what others industries are doing. The interesting right now is we haven’t talked about is within your own organization, you have the four walls, but you also have political constraints. You may be unwilling for a host of reasons to reveal some of your limitations or to reveal your concerns or to talk about, questions that you have. Some corporate cultures don’t support that kind of inquiry. And so I think what you can do with the group of peers from other organizations you’re a lot safer. You can ask the hard questions, you can reveal weaknesses about yourself and ask for feedback or for suggestions that you just can’t sometimes within an organizational setting. 

Jim Rembach:     You bring up a really good point. We hear a lot in the leadership circles about the importance of vulnerability. Vulnerability helps to give you an opportunity to build trust, to make connection and build rapport and all of that. However, depending whether it is geographic cultures or organizational cultures vulnerability also can make you set up to be a target. So kind of, I think there’s some nuance there that you really have to be aware of. And going outside of your organization may be the place where you can share and not have to worry about that, like you said. 

Jamie Millar:     Absolutely. 

Jim Rembach:     Okay. So one other thing that you had mentioned in the book, to me I think really intriguing, you talk about the eight important concepts associated with this. And the eight important concepts are: community, beliefs, questions, stories, leadership, change, experts and trust. And when I started looking at this list, I’m like, okay, well there’s eight, but it’s not a scenario where they’re equally important. And I do understand totally how they overlap and interrelate and all that. However, if you were to start to look at these eight important concepts, what stands out to you as most important? 

Jamie Millar:     Well, I think it really is the last one. And you’re right, these are not independent factors they’re all important but they all kind of come together. And the reason I listed those eight and ended with trust is because at the end of the day, trust really is the glue that holds any group together, it holds any relationship together. It’s hard to envision any relationship that’s productive where the individuals don’t trust each other. And it’s exacerbated even further when you’ve got a group of 20 people. There’s factions or distrust within the group, it falls apart pretty quickly. So, trust really is the glue that gets to all of that. Now, the parts that go into that, the issue around beliefs, the issue around expertise, I have a strong belief that the discussion leader doesn’t have to be an expert. 

I think that sometimes experts in any field are, again, blinded to opportunity. It’s only after you, sort of ask the stupid but perceptive question that sometimes you get to a conversation you shouldn’t have been having. And so, these things all build up. But at the end of the day, trust really is the most fundamental of those eight items. And by the way the design of any group should enhance trust. I think like so many things in life, any group, any product, any service is only as good as the design. The execution is important obviously but if you execute something that’s poorly designed, you’re still not going to get a great outcome. And so it’s the design, the way these groups are constructed, the nature of the interaction, the frequency, the format should all be developed to enhance trust over time. 

Jim Rembach:     Well, one of the things that you mentioned, well, of course there’s many things that were mentioned in the book, but another thing that stood out for me, is your emphasis on questions and talking about the importance of questions. So when you start talking about these groups and things like that, how much do you have to help people to be able to focus in on the question and questioning aspects of the community? 

Jamie Millar:     Well, that’s a big part of what we do. You’re right, I think people don’t naturally look at issues in their life and put them in the form of good questions. The one thing I’ve learned—I’ve actually read a lot of books about it—I ‘ve spent the last 25 years, both from my time, you mentioned my stint on the Harvard business school admissions board when I was a director of admissions all the way through today and you find yourself asking questions of people. So many people ask closed end questions, yes no questions, which very rarely revealed valuable information. This is actually, I think, a takeaway beyond executive peer networks that any of your listeners or I guess now viewers now that we’re also in video can take away. Instead of asking, if you’re a supervisor, instead of asking someone some a yes, no question something like, can the report be done on Tuesday?  That’s not a very useful question. The answer is yes or no. Whereas, if you say to someone, when will the report be done? You get a much richer answer. The person says, Tuesday, Monday or Thursday or something else that leads to a different set of questions. So I guess my point being that questions have the power, the right questions, particularly open ended questions have the power to reveal assumptions and beliefs. It gets back to this question about beliefs. What do you believe? Sometimes forming a question, it forces you to really reflect on what you believe in the assumptions that you’re making. That’s why I personally love both asking great questions but also having people answer them. But it takes a lot of practice. The big part of what we do before meetings is spend time just talking with folks about their opportunities, their challenges, kind of what’s going on in their lives. And what we’ll be doing is as we’re talking with everyone in the group before a meeting is just listening for patterns. We’ll find that the same issues will sometimes come up over and over and we’ll use those to form open ended questions that the group can lead into. But it isn’t something often that people will do well on the road. It often takes a bit of practice and a bit of work. 

Jim Rembach:     Okay. Talking about that whole questions thing, I was just talking about this with my call center coach community on our weekly Q and A. And was talking about a book by one of my guests, Bob TD, which is titled, Great Leaders Ask Questions. To me when you started talking about that, even going through the book and when Bob was on the show, for me it’s like these are a whole new set of habits that we really have to focus in on because oftentimes it’s our condition and things that we’ve been exposed to that cause us to actually, communicate in this way. And I think all of us have to really visit and revisit often, how we go about this whole open ended questioning thing. Because I think we’re stifling our own opportunities by not being able to do that. 

Jamie Millar:     Yeah, I agree. It’s something I always challenge people to just, even for a day, make note of how many times they ask closed end questions of others and how often they ask open ended questions. This could be in your personal life as well, by the way, you go home with your kids or with your spouse or with your friends, how often do you ask those closed end questions? It’s, remarkable how often people do that. I think you can learn so much more. I’ve managed to train myself, but it’s hard. It’s really hard to consistently ask open ended questions. 

Jim Rembach:     Most definitely. Okay, so when I started thinking about all of this experience and history and really, hands on work in this particular area that you’ve done, I started thinking about, okay, well can you pick out or think about, potential success scenario where somebody became part of a particular community that you helped to organize and then all of a sudden they just had this leapfrog opportunity. Because even when we were starting to refer to people at that senior level, their opportunities don’t stop, they come in other different ways. Can you remember what kind of stood out to you that they would contribute, this leap, to actually participating in a peer network?

 

Jamie Millar:     You’re right. There are a couple of examples I would give, and I don’t know that I would say they’re necessarily leaps. Most of the people that we work with are already at a pretty high level. And by the way, when you get to that level you’re not going to learn brand new things, if you’re learning something that you’ve never heard before, you’re probably asleep at the switch. So, when you get to that elevated level, a lot of it is nuance a lot of it is about, just sort of that fine tuning and which does make a big difference obviously at that level. The one thing I will say the powerful—you talked to earlier about the communities of practice and I think this notion of community is what we haven’t talked enough about yet. We’ve talked about the value of the insights and the learning and the questions, there’s obviously a relationship benefit, but I think one of the most powerful benefits of a group like this is the power of community. I’m reminded that Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs—basically after you have your physical needs and your safety needs met, the next need is the need for belonging and the need for community. And so it’s a very powerful human needs. And to your question, the two most memorable comments people have made to me, they’re very senior people make a ton of money, top of their game, one person said, this is a group of competitors we had a group of about 20 competitors, and this person said, you’ve taken a group of people who used to see each other as rivals and we now have relationships we see each other as friends. To me that was a very powerful transformation. 

And I think that sense of community and that sense of, no, I don’t have, 20 other people want to stick a knife in my back. I have 20 other people that are here to kind of hold me up when I need help. So I think that was a powerful statement somebody made. Another person in a different group made a similar point, which was, you helped me to feel less like I’m on an island, and again, a senior person in their organization, but they felt kind of alone. It’s a cliché, but it’s true it is lonely at the top. I’ve had a lot of people telling me that it is hard. Just realizing that you’ve got other people who feel the same way you do that face the same challenges it makes them feel less lonely. Some of the benefits are as much psychological as they are kind of measurable with traditional professional terms I think it’s made people feel a lot more happier. I had a guy years ago, in a group, it’s a private equity investor. This guy making a ton of money, super successful, he told me0—the meetings we would have every quarter were the one thing that he looked forward to it every quarter on his calendar. This is a guy, he’s doing deals with billions of dollars, running around these meetings with a group of peers were what he looked forward to the most. I just think that on an emotional level it’s very gratifying. 

Jim Rembach:     As you were talking, I started thinking as well that, we often find the same thing apply, at all those different levels that we were talking about. So even talking about their frontline leader, I remember sitting with a senior VP of a global organization who shared with me that they had a senior level meeting of executives and that he was the one who was given the responsibility for the contact center. None of the other executives wanted it because they didn’t understand it. They said that work there weird, it’s not like any other part of the business. Even people who are leading in those parts of an organization may find that oftentimes they feel alone that they can’t connect and talk with anybody. Also when you start talking with people who are in specialized groups scenarios. It’s like, people may not be able to speak my language I feel like I’m a foreigner. And so the community has to come from outside, has to, right. So everything that we’re talking about here, gosh, the whole connection of community and the power of it. And quite frankly, that’s what has allowed us humans to survive, the ways that they have, it’s the power of the community. The community wins out every single time. So thanks for bringing that up and emphasizing that point. But a lot of this is just filled with all kinds of different emotions. And one of the things that we look at on the Fast Leader show are quotes to make sure that we’re focusing those emotions in the right direction. Is there a quote or two that you like that you can share? 

Jamie Millar:     Anyone who has read my book, and I hope those listening or watching will pick it up. It’s a, it’s a quick book to read it was designed to be read in less than an hour. It actually is filled with tons of quotes that I personally like that have inspired and influenced me. There are lots of quotes there. There’s a few other quotes I would raise and let me just give you some we can talk about them or not. The first is by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I have been accused at times of being a bit of a dreamer. I think a leader has to be a dreamer. I think if you don’t have a dream you don’t have a vision. If you don’t vision they’ll don’t think you’re a leader. So, the classic Gabriel Garcia Marquez quote is, it’s not true that people stop pursuing dreams because they grow old they grow old because they stopped pursuing dreams, which I think is just so true to that same point. You’ve got Steve Jobs, is I think is an inspiration to many of us. He said, if you’re working on something exciting that you really care about you don’t have to be pushed the vision pulls you. I connect with that very much. And then the last one in terms of just what we want to do with our lives, there’s a fellow by the name of West Jackson who was a leading figure in the sustainable agriculture movement who said, if your life’s work can be accomplished in your lifetime you’re not thinking big enough, so I love that one as well. 

Jim Rembach:     There are several point that are really good I especially like the last one as far as that’s concerned. We have to sometimes move our target to a place way down the road because we’re limiting ourselves. Now talking about, limitations or maybe opportunities, when you start thinking about the work that you’re doing right now and some of the goals that you have, I know in order for you to even get to that point, there’s humps that you’ve been over in order to help you move into this particular direction. So, is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share? 

Jamie Millar:     Oh, my gosh. Over the last 25 years I’ve been over many humps. I’m a big believer that humps create opportunities. There’s this notion of disruption and kind of inflection points in anyone’s life. And oftentimes those inflection points are an opportunity to really move in a new direction and to try something different. I think for me, we mentioned at the beginning when you were introducing me about how I had spent nine years, I was a partner at a firm called Tapestry Networks, a very good firm. But I found at a certain point that the direction they were moving, it wasn’t inspiring anymore. There were things I wanted to accomplish and I felt that I needed a different professional platform. I actually looked around my intention was never to launch my own firm but rather to find a group of other people that were interested in doing the same kind of thing and quite honestly, I couldn’t find them. I didn’t see anyone else that was doing what I wanted to do the way I wanted to do it. So I took the leap and say, well, I’m going to do it on my own. I brought one of my colleagues with me. I brought some of the work with me. I negotiated with my employer, I had a non-solicit so I couldn’t just steal the business I had to negotiate a fair arrangement for both parties and use that as a platform to build my own firm. And that notion that, we don’t have to have a job, we have to have a career and a life and a profession and dreams and so forth. 

To me getting over the hump was recognizing that, there’s lots of ways to do what I want to do. As long as I’m clear about what I want to do if I can’t do it working for someone else and be my own boss and create my own firm. And so for me, that’s been the motivation. And I now have a 20 year plan that goes way beyond where I was when I first started. But, I think just that leap, that kind of recognition that the way you have been doing it may not be the right way to do it going forward. I think it’s been a very powerful insight. 

Jim Rembach:     Okay. So as you were talking, I started thinking about that time when you were with tapestry and that, that middle ground point. And you talked about not connecting with the vision and the path and all of that and where the organization was going, but how do you actually move from that position to ultimately sitting a course that takes you outside? How long did that transition actually occur for you?

Jamie Millar:     Like I said, my original plan had been to find other people. So it was becoming clear that it wasn’t the place I needed or wanted to stay long term. And so my first step was to quote unquote look for a job as people do. Are there other people or organization doing something similar? I talked to a bunch of people and it was never really clear that what they were doing was quite what I—I almost joined one firm that was doing something quite different and the idea was maybe we’d kind of bolt on my expertise—but that sort of hard culturally and for a number of reasons it was probably a bit of an unworkable puzzle. And so, like I said, as time went on it just became more and more clear that I was either going to have to compromise what I wanted to do, which would have defeated the whole purpose of leaving, or created a new platform instead of finding the platform. So it was a process that probably took, gosh, overall, I don’t recall exactly six to 12 months, I think. But once I got to the point where it became clear that this was the only viable option, then it was pretty fast. I made my decision and move forward pretty quickly to go solo. 

Jim Rembach:     That does seem like it is actually pretty fast. I also wonder at what point and how long do you let it linger for a lot of folks? So in other words, hey, I’ve been in this state for three years and I still haven’t made that leap because of fears of this, that and the other. To me, you essentially set it and then you moved on to it. 

Jamie Millar:     Yeah. I had been feeling discomfort. Like I said, I think in my life, whenever I felt discomfort, that’s been a good thing, that’s been a powerful motivator. You have to do a bit of a visualization exercise. You sort of imagine, project myself out 20 years, If I stay where I am, what will my life be like? Like you literally have to close your eyes and imagine yourself going home from work at the end of the day and how you’re going to feel, like you have to feel it viscerally in your body. And I find that once you realize—you know what, the path one is not sustainable. We only get one shot at this life, yes, it’s scary to make a change, but once you realize that it’s just a scary sometimes to stay where you are I think that that can be an extra motivator. 

By the way, I’ve always enjoyed the process of looking for new opportunities. I’m a big believer in sort of informational interviewing, not just kind of throwing resumes around, but just, going to meet people in a very nonthreatening way. So, I’m interested in what you do. I wonder if there’s some parallel with what I do and that sort of thing. I find people tend to be pretty open to that. If I got a call and someone said I want to talk to you about what you do, I’d spend half an hour and have a cup of coffee with someone, why wouldn’t you? In this day and age, you’d be crazy not to. So, I think people ought to do that more. And, and you find through those conversations that ideas emerge. The other thing that’s important in my case was having the support of my wife and my family. Because obviously there was a short term financial hit. We walked away from, a pretty full book of business into something quite a bit less. The major client it was working on, I was contractually prohibited from working with. And so it was a bit of a lean time the first year or two, but you have to just accept that. You say, this is part of a 20 year plan and I’m going to invest for a few years and it will pay off in the end. You have to believe in yourself and believe in what you’re doing. 

Jim Rembach:     We are totally glad that you have done that. And Fast Leader legion wishes you the very best. 

Jamie Millar:     Thanks Jim, I appreciate it. 

Jim Rembach:     Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor:

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award winning solutions guarantee to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better. 

Jim Rembach:     Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion it’s time for the Hump day Hoedown. Okay, Jamie, the Hump Day hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust, yet rapid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Jamie Millar, are you ready to hoedown?

Jamie Millar:     I am. 

Jim Rembach:     Alright. So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Jamie Millar:     I did not give negative feedback as well as I should. I am a nice guy and I think that that is both a blessing and a curse and I’m probably have a hard time giving constructive criticism. 

Jim Rembach:     What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? 

Jamie Millar:     What I was working at Harvard Business School, the Dean John MacArthur at the time, we were in a meeting and somebody mentioned the initiative and said, oh, but we don’t have any money for this. And he said the most perceptive thing anyone’s ever said, which is the world is awash with money. He said, look around everywhere you look there’s money. The world is awash in money what he world lacks is good ideas. And so for me, that has been a driving leadership vision. I have never viewed resources as an impediment to getting things done. 

Jim Rembach:     What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success? 

Jamie Millar:     I think it’s a couple of things. I think there’s curiosity. I’ve always been an intensely curious person ever since I was a kid. I think also authenticity. I’ve never tried to be, other than I am, this notion of fake it till you make it I think is total BS. I think that people can and should be authentic with each other and just be comfortable with who they are. And I think the people—getting back to trust, I think people trust authentic people. So, I think that my authenticity, which come sort of naturally has been a real key to my success. 

Jim Rembach:     What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Jamie Millar:     Well I think it is that. I think my ability to build trust and established relationships. I like people. When I talk with people about themselves or about what I’m doing, I’m sincerely interested. And so I think just that curiosity about people and wanting to relate to people I think is a great tool. 

Jim Rembach:     What would be one book that you’d recommend to our legion, it can be from any genre, and of course we’re going to put a link to your book on your show notes page as well. 

Jamie Millar:     Can I give two or do I have to limit it to one? 

Jim Rembach:     Go right ahead. 

Jamie Millar:     Okay. So the first one about relationships is Dale Carnegie’s, How to win Friends and Influence People, it’s old but I think it’s still timeless. I read it when I was about six years old, or maybe older about eight years old, but my grandfather had an old copy and it blew my mind. The idea of focusing on other people. They will think you’re a genius if you love to talk with (35:23)so I think that’s a great one. And then the other is also a classic Stephen Covey’s, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, it’s a great lesson in long-term thinking and kind of having the big picture. 

Jim Rembach:     Okay, Fast Leader Legion, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/jamiemillar. Okay, Jamie, this is my last Hump day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25. And you’ve been given the knowledge and skills that you have now and you can take them back with you, but you can’t take everything back but you can always choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

Jamie Millar:     I think I would bring back my comfort with entrepreneurship which I have developed. I grew up in Ottawa, as we mentioned it’s a government town it’s like growing up in Washington DC. Most people I knew worked for the government or an industry is supported of the government. There wasn’t a great deal of business, wasn’t a great deal of risk taking entrepreneurship and I have become very comfortable with that type of risk. And I wish at age 25, I had known how much fun an entrepreneurial career could be and had been a little more comfortable with doing stuff like that on my own. 

Jim Rembach:     Jamie it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you? 

Jamie Millar:     Sure. Well, Jim, they can me through our website, skybridge.associates. You can contact me through that it has lots of information about what we do and links obviously to learn more about the book, Building Bridges, as well. 

Jim Rembach:     Jamie Millar, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links, from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already. Head on over fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

END OF AUDIO 

Howard Partridge The Power of Community

188: Howard Partridge: I was a terrible leader

Howard Partridge Show Notes Page

Howard Partridge had the vision for a turnkey business. What he did not realize was that his strong out-going task-oriented, demanding, direct, defiant personality was really turning everybody off. That’s when his bookkeeper took him aside and shared with him some words of wisdom.

Howard grew up in L.A. (LOWER ALABAMA!). Mobile, Alabama to be exact. He was the 5th of 7 kids.

They were all on welfare and crammed in a little 600 square foot shack. The roof on that house was so bad, when it rained they had to get out all the pots and pans to catch the leaks.

At a young age he could be found going to the beach and riding his bike. At the age of 18, he got in a fight with his step-dad and got kicked out of the house. He had NO money and a friend helped him scrape-up enough money for a Greyhound bus ticket to Houston. His real dad (who he had only met twice in my entire life) lived there.

To make a living he worked in a grocery store, was a painter’s helper, washed dishes, and waited tables. After working as a waiter in several restaurants, he worked his way up to working in high-end restaurants. After getting married, he started his first business out of the trunk of his car with $3,000.00 of their wedding money.

And they are still married, because over the last 30 years he has built that wedding money into a multi-million-dollar enterprise. He has owned 9 small businesses altogether and currently owns 4.

Howard is the president of Phenomenal Products, Inc. He’s an international business coach with coaching members in over 100 industries in 9 countries. He is the author of The Power of Community and 6 other books, a TEDx Speaker, the exclusive business coach for the Zig Ziglar Corporation, the first Ziglar Legacy Trainer in the world, the first founding member of The John Maxwell Team and a Master Trainer DISC Certified Human Behavior Expert.

He has led hundreds of seminars, webinars, workshops and holds his own live multi-day events which have featured some of America’s top business trainers including John Maxwell, Michael Gerber, Bob Burg, Dr. Joseph A. Michelli, Darren Hardy, Dr. Robert Rohm and American legend Zig Ziglar.

Howard and his wife Denise have been married for 34 years and live in Houston, TX mostly, and part time in Destin, FL. They have one son, Christian who is 25.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @HowardPartridge to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“The experience that your company delivers is what’s going to set you apart from the competition.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet

“The person you become is important because everything flows out from that.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Everything rises and falls on leadership.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“We need to have systems in our business so everything doesn’t need to be recreated and people know what to do.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“We need to develop ourselves as leaders and we need to develop our team.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Most employees, the reason they’re frustrated is because they don’t feel heard.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Vision plus vision equals division.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Community is any group of people that are pursuing the same vision and living by the same set of values.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“All of business and all of life is about relationships.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“When you don’t value people you de-value people.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Once you support people they’ll begin to trust you a little bit more and then you can encourage them.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“No one wants encouragement from someone they don’t know is for them.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Phenomenal leaders love others to the point where they’re willing to have open-heart encounters.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Intentionally make time for your team.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“All of business and all of life is all about relationships.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

“Every single person you meet, add value to them and stay in touch with them.” -Howard Partridge Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Howard Partridge had the vision for a turnkey business. What he did not realize was that his strong out-going task-oriented, demanding, direct, defiant personality was really turning everybody off. That’s when his bookkeeper took him aside and shared with him some words of wisdom.

Advice for others

Add value to every person you meet and stay in touch with them.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Making time for my team.

Best Leadership Advice

You can have everything in life you want if you just help enough other people get what it is they want.

Secret to Success

It’s all about building relationships. Valuing people, recognizing people and appreciating people.

Best tools in business or life

My reputation, my character, my integrity.

Recommended Reading

Contacting Howard Partridge

website: http://howardpartridge.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/howard-partridge-community/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/HowardPartridge

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

188: Howard Partridge: I was a terrible leader

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience break out performance faster and rocket to success. Now here’s your host customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

Call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders. Through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen so go to callcentercoach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path e-book now.

 

Jim Rembach:      Okay, Fast Leader legion, today I’m excited because today I get to talk to somebody who hopefully is going to really help me and you about putting some things together that will help our business move forward faster and really impact the customer. Howard Partridge grew up in LA, that’s LOWER ALABAMA! Mobile, Alabama to be exact. He was the 5th of 7 kids they were all on welfare and crammed in a little 600 square foot shack. The roof on that house was so bad that when it rained they had to get out the pots and pans to catch the leaks. At a young age he could be found going to the beach and riding his bike. At the age of 18, he got in to a fight with his stepdad and got kicked out of the house. He had no money and a friend helped him scrape-up enough money for a Greyhound bus ticket to Houston. 

 

His real dad, who he had only met twice in my entire life lived there. To make a living he worked in a grocery store, was a painter’s helper, washed dishes, and waited tables. After working as a waiter in several restaurants, he worked his way up to working in high-end restaurants. After getting married, he started his first business out of the trunk of his car with $3,000.00 of their wedding money. And they are still married, because over the last 30 years he has built that wedding money into a multi-million-dollar enterprise. He has owned nine small businesses altogether and currently owns four. 

 

Howard is the president of Phenomenal Products, Inc. He’s an international business coach with coaching members in over 100 industries in nine countries. He is the author of The Power of Community and six other books, a TEDx Speaker, the exclusive business coach for the Zig Ziglar Corporation, the first Ziglar Legacy Trainer in the world, the first founding member of The John Maxwell Team and a Master Trainer DISC Certified Human Behavior Expert.

 

He has led hundreds of seminars, webinars, and workshops and holds his own live multi-day events which have featured some of America’s top business trainers including John Maxwell, Michael Gerber, Bob Burg, Dr. Joseph A. Michelli, Darren Hardy, Dr. Robert Rohm and American legend Zig Ziglar. Howard and his wife Denise have been married for 34 years and live in Houston, Texas mostly, and part time in Destin, Florida. They have one son, Christian who is 25. Howard Partridge, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Howard Partridge:    Absolutely.

Jim Rembach:      I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my legion a little bit about you but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Howard Partridge:    My current passion is developing people as simple as that. Whether that is one of my forty team members or the handful of people that work directly with me especially the younger ones I love helping them develop and I love to see life change happen with our coaching members we’ve got almost 400 coaching members in nine different countries and I lead 273 trainers in  19 different countries. So to see people have breakthroughs that’s what it gets me up every day today. 

Jim Rembach:     What I found really interesting is I started learning more and more about you and really diving into the book The Power of Community is it seems like—first you’ve kind of had this business focus running a good business and all the systems and processes and everything around that and then you’ve kind of, I don’t know if you say it’s gained the wisdom or really found the passion or you can actually alluded to, but you really started getting to the whole people component and that has really been the base of everything else.

 

Howard Partridge:    Absolutely. Just a quick snapshot as I started my business and I was really great at customer service because as you and I talked before I came from high-end restaurants where the service experience was everything. That’s true the experience that your company delivers is what’s going to set you apart from the competition. But what happens to get there is really interesting. My epiphany came I was a slave to my business work 24 hours a day 7 days a week and every time I travel, I love to travel, it seemed like I was always on the phone talking to customers or employees back home. I read a book called the E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber and it changed my life I saw that I could have a turnkey business so I started building systems in my business.  Well, I realized that there were a couple more components that needed to take place one of them was personal development. I got involved with Ziegler, I ended up becoming great friends with Michael Gerber by the way and mentored by him, I got involved with Ziegler because I realized that personal growth was so important the person that you become because everything flows out from that. And then I learned about leadership and everything rises and falls on leadership and so it’s really all about the relationships through and through. So I came to the conclusion that we need to grow personally we need to have systems in our business so that things don’t have to be recreated and everybody knows what to do. And then we need to develop ourselves as leaders we need to develop our team so that they can grow personally and they can grow as leaders, those are our future leaders, and then of course the whole idea of community of having created a sense of community in your company as well as around yourself as a leader. So those are the five values that I have. 

 

Jim Rembach:     For me when I started initially looked that community I probably had a different lens and then when I started getting into the book it was like kind of opened up my mind and my eyes to where you’re talking about the community that we create that is of more of a personal community, not a social community like well we get inundated with these days, but it was definitely more of an intimate type of focus and connection. You talk about really three keys to having a community that is strong. You talk about support, encouragement, accountability and then you talk about six steps to building that community. You talk about valuing or value true community, pursue champion connections, inspire emotional trust, practice gift exchange, and I want to dig into that one a little bit more when I started getting into that it really was a different perspective that I wasn’t necessarily interpreting when I first read it and then invite open hearted encounters and then building growth pods. So when you start talking about these six steps of building that community how did that evolve or come out?

 

Howard Partridge:    Well, it actually happened about 25 years ago and it happened through church, even though this conversation is not going to be about church or religion. By the way the community in this sense is not a neighborhood not a nationality but a group of people that operate by the same vision the same values, and I open up the book with the quote that every human being has a longing for belonging. We all want to feel loved we all want to feel valued we all want to feel like our life matters yet 70% of American workers still are disengaged 80 percent of those workers who are actively disengaged. And I have had this sense for a long time, I’ve been studying leadership for 25 years, I’ve had this sense that creating a sense of community in your company is a good idea and it just took me a few years to finally come to the place where I was ready to outline a solution to create the steps and I actually worked with a consultant for two years but I’ve known about this for 25 years and what happened was I would go to church every Sunday and the message was good it was one person too many which is important to inspire people and maybe to even instruct or to teach but then on Tuesday night we had a small group home group and this is where the real action was this is where a real ministry happened this was where  each person had a gift speaking of gifts and one had a song one was a teacher people were helping each other and serving each other and involved in one another’s lives a real change was happening in those human beings. And I started finding out about the cell church movement which is organizing a church around what are called cell groups and realized that this was a total movement I spent several years in that movement. 

 

And then I started applying it to my business instead of having a traditional staff meeting where one person is in front of the room and does a meeting, which typically is not very good, I would get our folks in a circle and let them share. Because the thing is that most employees the reason that they’re frustrated is they don’t feel heard and the manager, the business owner, the leader doesn’t want to hear from them because then they might have to change what their agenda is. My mentor taught me that vision plus vision equals the division and eventually different agendas are going to develop and there’s going to be this struggle. So let’s just have an open conversation about the vision and about the values. So community is any group of people that are pursuing the same vision and living by the same set of values. Doesn’t mean that we’re going to agree on everything we might like different movies we might have different values about different areas of life but when you create the vision for your company, which in my mind I call it MVP, includes your mission what you do every day your values who you’re going to be and how you’re going to act and your purpose why you exist, I call it MVP, then everybody can get around that. And they can decide, is this company the company that I want to be associated with? Is this the vision that I want to pursue? Will it add meaning to my own life? And are these the values that I’m willing to live by? 

 

Jim Rembach:    I think we’re starting to see that more and more where people are focusing in on fit more than they are as far as background, experience, skillset. If people have a core foundation and exposure to a particular area and they’re teachable and that MVP is a fit, that’s really where we should be focusing and I think you cover that as far as building proper teams and the pods and all that. That one that one section that step is called that practice of gift exchange there was one area in there that you talked about helping your team focus to me that I think was an excellent framework when you really start getting to the point where you have that deeper relationship and helping people kind of find some of their own purpose. And you and you talk about seven core areas of life and they’re personal, financial, career, family, physical, mental, and spiritual. Now I have to say that there’s probably some Church basis in that as well but where did some of that come from? 

 

Howard Partridge:    Well you bet. In the book since the book is published by Mcgraw-Hill and is going to all over the world as you notice in the book I left that last one I said that’s really up to your culture obviously I have my own faith that probably comes through in all of my books including this one. Certainly some of them that I published with smaller publishers but the idea here is Mr. Zig Ziglar who was my mentor he’s my hero the late Zig Ziglar and I work very closely with the company and help really run his company and his favorite quote until the day he passed away in November 2012 is, you’re going to have everything in life you want if you just help enough other people get what it is that they want. And I found that that’s leadership all of business and all of life is about relationships and I think the challenges today is that were focused so much on skillsets and we’re too afraid to get close to people. It doesn’t mean that you need to have a super close personal relationship I mean you need to be inappropriate. Mr. Ziegler also said that—the old the old saying that nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And Mr. Ziegler added to that about them no one nobody cares how much until they know how much you care about them. Even people like Kevin Turner who was the chief operating officer at Microsoft everybody that came on to his personal team he would have them do a presentation that I think was like 30 minutes on called Who am I and they would share about their life. We forget that that humans are not just resources that were living breathing if it’s true and I always get the nod when I say this, if it’s true that every human being has a longing for belonging they want to feel loved they want to feel accepted they want to have meaning to their life they want to know that their life matters and if it’s true that what Jim Collins says is that meaningful work equals a meaningful life then we’ve got to figure out how to create some kind of meaning. 

 

And the way that I have seen it be successful is that when you join this community you’ll not only grow professionally but you’ll grow personally. And if you help people personally if you help them reach their goals again back to this quote back to this truth, you as a leader you as a business owner you as a manager can have everything in life you want if you just help enough other people get what it is that they want so the three keys or support, encouragement, and accountability. We take those seven areas of life that you mentioned and we approach life in such a way that we ask our team members when they come on board people who are on our team tell me about your goals what are some of the things that you want to accomplish personally. I don’t need to know all the personal details of your life that’s totally up to you how much you want to share or not share but the thing is that we want to provide resources. Support is helping other people have the things that they want to have. Everyone wants to have a better life. 

 

If I can help someone reach a goal if I can help someone learn a skill if I can help someone provide a contact or a book or a resource or a podcast or download or something it’s just a demonstration that I care about them. Even if they want to go do something like run a marathon or write a book or something like this so many managers so many business owners are afraid that well if they write this book and become successful they’ll leave. Well good because you help them reach their goal and then you’re going to have the Lou Holtz syndrome. Lou Holtz syndrome was—reporter asked, hey you winning all these titles and all your assistant coaches are moving on to head coaching jobs isn’t that a problem for you? He said, quite the contrary. He said, you ought to see all the assistant coaching applications that we have we got the best in the world that want to come to work for me because they know it’s the fastest way to success.

 

So the first key of creating this sense of community this sense of belonging this sense of total engagement is to support people. Help them have the things that they want to have. Everybody wants

to have, Mr. Ziegler used to say, everybody wants to be happy. You can’t make anybody happy but you can create an environment where if they choose to be happy they can. You could help someone be unhappy I guess. Everybody wants to be happy healthy reasonably prosperous they want to have friends they want to have peace of mind they want to have good family relationships they want to be secure they want to have hope for the future. As Simon Sinek said, we can create the environment for change. 

 

The second key in building a sense of community is encouragement. That is helping people do the things that they want to do. Maybe they’re afraid to write that book maybe they’re afraid to take that promotion maybe they’re afraid to speak in public maybe they’re afraid—in fact, I’ve got one who works for me who when I hired her, I have habit of people who come on my team—first of all I’m talking about gift exchange we have to look at their personality profile and fit that personality profile with that behavior style with the right position I should say because you can’t have a reserved task oriented person out there on the front lines doing the promotion and onstage in front of people and at the same time you can’t have that person who is the entertainer locked up in a closet doing accounting. So when you get that piece of it right, that’s why the disc profiles that we recommend are so important, then we can have a conversation during the interview process, so what do you like to do? What’s your favorite thing to do? What was your favorite thing to do at your last job? You keep that conversation going even after they work for you. And so I have one that said, I don’t want to do sales and I don’t want to be in front of the room. Now with the training business those two components, and I was like, I can live with that because I’ve got a lot of admin stuff to do. Well guess what? She does now? She does sales and she gets in front of the room she’s getting better at that. The reason is because of encouragement. She’s got the gift she’s incredible in both respects and so she just needed to be encouraged. So encouragement is given people the fuel helping them do the things that maybe they’re afraid to do doing the things that they want to do. And when you do this the way that it works is—support has two steps underneath it which is to value people, when you don’t value people you devalue people. And show them that you value them. The way that you show them that you value them is by helping them. 

 

And then two is serving them that’s called servant leadership, there’s a lot out there on servant leadership and again the idea is if I demonstrate to you that I’m a leader by serving you, not doing your job for you not holding you accountable but I’m here to help you I want you to be successful. You would think the way that some business owners and managers and leaders treat people you would think that they don’t want them to be successful. They criticize them they condemn them they complained and those are three things that Mr. Dale Carnegie said that the first thing if you want to win friends and influence people don’t criticize, condemn of complain. Smile for crying out loud that was (20:42) number two he had 31 principles. And so once you support people they’ll begin to trust you a little bit more and then you can encourage them no one wants encouragement from someone that they don’t know is for them. If you value—why do I want you to encourage me? So then you can move to the next two steps that you mentioned, inspire emotional trust and to practice gift exchange.  In these two steps that are building on the first two is you show them that you care and you develop them you help them develop themselves. We provide all sorts of goals, training, Ziglar training, disc training and different things like that so that they can develop the gifts that they already have. If I already have a gift of say writing or speaking or editing or organization or whatever I can put you through training and help you develop yourself. By showing you that I care about you as a human being that’s going to create this relationship of trust. 

 

I did a big huge study on the leadership challenge series and there’s several books, and this is a 40-year study and the thing is that at the end of the day leadership is a relationship it’s all about trust it’s all about credibility if you don’t have trust with people they’re not going to open up to you they’re not going to give you the feedback that you need they’re not going to give you the information that you need. When you support people and you encourage them now you’ve built a really good foundation for having the right kind of accountability. What managers and business owners do is do your job I pay you so many times its negative and there’s no relationship there. Sure, I understand I got to do my job but where’s the relationship here? And the idea is that you’re going to get more accountability when there is that trust when there is that relationship and accountability is helping people become the person that they want to be. Mr. Ziegler taught that you have to be before you can do and you have to do before you can have. If people are struggling there’s something inside of them there’s some value some belief that they’ve adopted about themselves that causes them to do or not do the things that that they do or don’t do so. It opens up a tremendous opportunity and it can’t be taken lightly and it can’t be forced some leaders may not be willing to go there. 

 

Jim Rembach:   In the book you call it welcomed accountability and I really like the way that you addressed that. 

 

Howard Partridge:    Yeah, yeah, 

 

Jim Rembach:   Because it’s really what you’re talking about. It’s the difference between having the command and control and the others you talked about being caring coach? 

 

Howard Partridge:    So the command and control model you might get a lot done but you’re going to have a lot of turnover. People aren’t going to want to come to work it’s going to be a negative environment and when you care in coach people want to be their best because you’ve supported them encourage them that welcomed accountability becomes—now they look at you as a coach they look at you as a mentor. The final two steps is that phenomenal leaders love others to the point where they’re willing to have these open hard encounters is what I call them where someone has a breakthrough personally and they want to share that with you because you have guided them you have helped them you’ve coached them and then the final one is that a leader is a coach. And you look at your role as a business owner as a leader as a manager is you have your team you have your players it’s your job to coach them and direct them. Coaching is more about asking questions that it is telling people what to do so that’s what accountability is.

 

When you enter into that level of relationship with people it’s amazing. I had one of those kinds of conversations with my 35 year old employee this morning, he’s been with me since he was 17 years old and he’s learned all this stuff as we’ve gone along the technical skills he’s amazing as hard as amazing and we have a person on one of our teams in one of my companies who is about to lose a daughter to cancer. And he’s close to this guy and he’s just telling me I don’t know what to say to him. And I told Santiago, I said Santi, I’m 57 and I said, you are the fix that guys like Superman, he can do anything, and you like to come in and fix things and you like to share with people—hey, think about it this way or think about it this way, you’re facing this for the very first time in your life you can’t expect to know the answer. But who did he come to when he needed to talk this over? His boss. And he’s really my best friend in the whole world outside of my wife. So it’s that kind of relationship— it’s iron sharpens iron—we build one another up and we support one another encourage one another and hold one another accountable. And I’m convinced that if the leadership starts like that a chick-fil-a’s like this Southwest Airlines is like this there’s a lot of companies even big companies, they might not be able to do it as complete with that number of people as you can in the small business but it’s very, very powerful.

 

Jim Rembach:   Even to get to this point there’s a lot of humps that we have to get over and times where we didn’t do a good job of coaching or creating community? Is there time when that happened to you that you can remember that you can share? 

 

Howard Partridge:    Absolutely, still happens it still happens. Not as frequently but I was a terrible leader. I saw this vision and my definition of leadership is leadership is effectively communicating the vision. Alright so I had this vision of a turnkey business and everything is systematized, just like McDonald’s this is how you do it this is the button that you push next, you never deviate from that because if you do the fries aren’t going to be exactly right, it was just that kind of thing. But what I didn’t realize is that my strong outgoing, task-oriented, demanding, direct, defiant personality was really turning everybody off. One day my bookkeeper, I would come in the office and start barking out orders why isn’t this done why is it that done, I wasn’t unhappy it probably seemed that way to everybody else but we just get stuff done. She took me aside and she said, Howard, I don’t know if you realize this or not but there are people actual human beings present in this office. You might smile and say good morning that might go a long way and I thought interesting. So I started learning about leadership, you have all the systems you want but if people aren’t willing to follow you—that is the more difficult part and that’s really what the power of community is all about is—you have all the vision that you want you can have all the goals that you want you can have all the tracking that you want and the systems that you want but leadership is influence but you gain influence by adding value to people. You can have everything you want in life in business if you just help enough other people get what it is that they want. 

 

Leadership is effectively communicating the vision. Effective communication means that I am sharing the vision with you you’re buying into me you’re buying into the vision you’re buying of the concept or you’re giving me enough feedback that we’re creating this vision together and adjusting the course together. I cannot think of a more powerful way to communicate than community. We’re literally communicating in unity where we belong together and people can get so much meaning from their work and the relationships at work can add so much value to their life it’s amazing. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Well, I’m glad that you actually have learned those lessons and that you’ve actually are sharing them with others. And the fast leader legion hopes that you continue to do that and we wish you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor: 

 

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award-winning solution is guaranteed to create motivated, productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Alright, here we go Fast Leader legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Howard, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Howard Partridge, are you ready to hoedown? 

 

Howard Partridge:     Yeah, but I’m from Alabama, do I have to talk as fast as you’re talking right? I did move out to Houston so that helped a little bit and I married my Italian wife from New Jersey so maybe I can maybe this happen. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Sounds good. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today? 

 

Howard Partridge:     I would have to say just intentionally making time for my team. I’m so busy, I’m traveling I’m doing this I’m writing I’m having meetings and different things like that just to be with my leadership team more. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Howard Partridge:     Probably what I shared earlier that you can have everything in life you want if you just help enough other people get what it is that they want.

 

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Howard Partridge:     Again it’s all about relationships. All of business and all of life is about relationships. When I see a person, even that’s a flight attendant I try to add value to them because you never know what conversation you’re going to have with someone that helps you to in some way. And so I would say that without a doubt it’s just valuing people, recognizing people appreciating people and building relationships. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life? 

 

Howard Partridge:     Probably I would say if my reputation is a tool my character integrity how I live my life I think is my best tool and I think that that’s the best tool that anybody could have, obviously, books obviously seminars obviously podcast like this. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners and it could be from any genre, and of course we’re going to put a link to The Power of Community—How Phenomenal Leaders Inspire their Teams Wow their Customers and Make Bigger Profits, on your show notes page as well.

 

Howard Partridge:     Well I suppose that would depend on where the audience member is coming from and what seas of life they’re in but you can’t go wrong with, See you at the Top or How to win Friends and Influence People, Top Performances, Mr. Ziegler’s leadership book we’re about to rewrite that, so that would be a good start for leaders. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Howard Partridge. Okay, Howard, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the knowledge and skills that you have now and you can take them back with you but you can’t take everything you can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Howard Partridge:     Every single person I met I would add value to them and I would stay in touch with them. I would have a system of staying in touch and adding value to them and staying connected.

 

Jim Rembach:   Howard, it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you? 

 

Howard Partridge:     Howardpartridge.com, just like the bird or if it’s Christmas time, Partridge in a pear tree. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Howard Partridge, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO 

 

Andy Swann The Human Workplace

157: Andy Swann: I got no satisfaction from my job

Andy Swann Show Notes Page

Andy Swann was at a barbeque when he congratulated a guy who said he was at his job for 10 years. The man said he hated it. Andy realized he was that man and decided to make a resolution to do something about it. Now, Andy helps people to be rescued from the same fate.

Andy Swann was raised in the UK as one of five children. Despite ambitions to become a rock star, he found himself studying populations at the London School of Economics, where he became music editor of the student newspaper. It was this combination of interests and lack of career direction that set him on the path to where he is now.

A dad who spent 30 years in a career he didn’t particularly enjoy and a mum who started a lifestyle business from home, that grew into a trusted local recruiting service, inspired Andy’s entrepreneurial mindset and a fascination with the relationship between people and work. This curiosity grew as Andy gained work experience, developing into a frustration with unnecessary bureaucracy and the idea that a disconnect between people and organization was costing everyone dearly.

This eventually manifested itself in The Work Project, a year-long experiment on work and workplaces with Andy as the guinea pig which took him from dairy farms to Downton Abbey and into very famous companies. From there, his work diversified by design to follow personal passions and maintain the adventure.

Today, Andy finds himself as the Founder of Simple Better Human, a leading boutique agency creating fresh perspectives for global brands and complex organizations. He is a passionate experimenter and investigator on the connection between people, work and organizations.

As author of The Human Workplace, Andy has become a leading voice in the drive towards people-first organizations and he speaks around the world on the benefits of taking a human approach to organizational development. He is a renowned Facilitator, creating connections and immersive environments for some of the world’s best-known companies.

In launching My Amazing Team, Andy created a platform for ideas, inspiration and events. The expanding All About People creative conference series, Catalyst Elite Leadership Workshops and creative client projects sit alongside products like the upcoming Chā Drinks range and ALT+SPACE immersive strategy locations. Through his role as Change Maker with BDG architecture+design, Andy creates people-focused transition programs for behavioral and habit change. He also consults and advises on strategies, techniques and actions for creating amazing human workplaces.

Andy splits his time between Atlanta, GA and the UK, working globally and enjoying every opportunity for adventure and exploration. People often ask him what he does with any free time he gets. His response is simple… everything I do is my choice. It’s all free time, it’s our responsibility to make the best of it.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @AndySwann to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet 

“Why do you go to work for the company you work for?” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“Who’s better to tell your organization how to pivot and better serve customers, than the customers themselves?” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“Who’s best to tell you how they can work best, than your employees themselves?” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“All of these buzz words of the modern business world, they’re all based around people.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“Fluid iteration is the idea to constantly plug into your people and gain insight.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“What success looks like is, the right people in the right places doing the right things.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“The less structure you have, the more things can happen.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“If you can’t tweet a policy, then it’s too complicated.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“Get out of the way and enable people to be their best in pursuit of the organizational goals.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“Free range change can come from anywhere in your organization.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

 “Today’s change isn’t an end to end thing, its part of tomorrow’s organization.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“As long as the world’s spinning, things keep evolving.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“The minute we think change is finished, that’s the minute we get left behind.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“We live in an age of disruption, you need to be challenging.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“What’s that pivot that’s going to create the future for us?” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

“Be yourself, because it’s the best thing you could ever do.” -Andy Swann Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Andy Swann was at a barbeque when he congratulated a guy who said he was at his job for 10 years. The man said he hated it. Andy realized he was that man and decided to make a resolution to do something about it. Now, Andy helps people to be rescued from the same fate.

Advice for others

Be yourself. Don’t compromise, be yourself at work. It’s the best thing you can ever do.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Insight, lack of self-confidence, self-belief.

Best Leadership Advice

Listen, listen and listen.

Secret to Success

Informality, undo your tie and undo your top button and just sit back and see what happens.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

Communication, the ability to listen and speak back.

Recommended Reading

The Human Workplace: People-Centred Organizational Development

Purple Cow, New Edition: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable

Contacting Andy Swann

website: http://andyswann.co.uk/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AndySwann

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyswann/

Resources and Show Mentions

Developing a Better Place to Work

Increase Employee Engagement and Workplace Culture

Empathy Mapping

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

 

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

157: Andy Swann I got no satisfaction from my job

 

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience, break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotions. So move onward and upward faster by gaining significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey and personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you’ll learn how to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improve customer loyalty and reduce your cost to operate. Get over your emotional hump now by going to empathymapping.com to learn more. 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who is going to give us the opportunity to draw some parallels between the employee experience and the customer experience and making change happen. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Andy Swann was raised in the UK as one of five children. Despite ambitions to become a rock star he found himself studying populations at the London School of Economics where he became a music editor of the student newspaper. It was this combination of interests and a lack of career direction that set him on the path to where he is now. A dad who spent 30 years in a career he didn’t particularly enjoy and a mom who started a lifestyle business from home that grew into a trusted local recruiting service inspired Andy’s entrepreneurial mindset and a fascination with the relationship between people and work. This curiosity grew as Andy gained work experience developing into a frustration with unnecessary bureaucracy and the idea that disconnect between people and organization was costing everyone dearly. 

 

This eventually manifested itself in the work project, a year-long experiment on workplaces with Andy as a guinea pig which took him from dairy farms to Downtown Abbey and into very famous 

Companies. From there his work diversified by designed to follow personal passions and maintain the adventure. Today Andy finds himself as the founder of Simple Better Human. A leading boutique agency creating fresh perspectives for global brands and complex organizations. He is a passionate, experimenter and investigator on the connection between people, work and organizations. As author of The Human Workplace Andy has become a leading voice and the drive towards people-first organizations and he speaks around the world on the benefits of taking a human approach to organizational development.  Through his role as change maker with BDG architecture + design, Andy creates people-focused transition programs for behavioral and habit change. He also consults and advises on strategies, techniques and actions for creating amazing human workplaces. 

 

Andy splits his time between Atlanta, Georgia and the UK working globally and enjoying every opportunity for adventure and exploration. People often ask him what he does with any free time he gets. His response is simple, everything I do is my choice it’s all free time it’s our responsibility to make the best of it. Andy Swann, are you ready to help us get over the hump? 

 

Andy Swann:   Hi Jim, I’m ready to go.

 

Jim Rembach:   I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Andy Swann:   My current passion is the relationship between people and work and the organizations they work for what makes people kind of passionate about. The mission of an organization, what makes a customer of an organization, why do you go to work for the company you work for, why do you do what you do every day? I really loved in your introduction. You just mentioned your legion I think for me that’s a really big thing—your followers. What are these people getting behind the mission and the message that you have? And this is exactly what fascinates me and how that same message comes across in organizations, companies, workplaces, all of these things.

 

Jim Rembach:   Thanks for sharing that.  You were talking and me getting an opportunity to look through the book there’s several things that actually stood out to me and I even had the opportunity to listen to you speak and you talked about how organizations and the technologies and things like that change but people don’t. However, in order for us to be innovative and continue to be part of an organization that does thrive we have to be able to pivot. And one of the things you talk about in the book is fluid iteration, give us a little bit more insight into that. 

 

Andy Swann:   Where do you start? People is where you start. I have a mantra that says, when people thrive organizations thrive too because actually who’s better to tell your organization how to pivot and best serve the customers than the customers themselves. Who’s best to tell you how they can work best than your employees themselves and all of the stuff the future and innovation and all creativity and all of these buzzwords of the modern business world they’re all based around people because people have ideas where innovation comes from so the future is based around people. And fluid iteration is literally the idea that is constantly plugging into your people constantly gaining insight whether it’s people inside your businesses, employees, whether it’s people outside your business as customers or your wider community or your legion all of these people can be fluid inside and outside your organization and they can contribute to ideas and you can take those ideas all times. You can constantly be changing and moving forward and that what iteration is you don’t have to pull the rag out and completely change everything, it’s that pivot, it’s a small change a little tweak it’s an iteration that you go from what we are currently to what the same thing looks like tomorrow, you don’t have to completely change direction and go somewhere completely different.

 

Jim Rembach:   I also love in the book—because when you start talking about the ability to really engage and cause people to want to be part of, be part of that community be part of the customer identified group—you talked about the structures associated with it. So when you start talking about the fluidity aspects of iteration is that you can’t have a whole lot of parameters and walls. You talk about ten key ideas on structure and to me that really stood out, if you could just kind of explain that a little bit.

 

Andy Swann:   I think for me structure is a big word. You’re hearing a lot of management theory and business  theory they talk about structure and they talk about removing structure and self-management and how the management frameworks look and how leadership works and how your organization of diagram looks and I think for me you can have any structure and you can work within that. The minimal structure you need to enable your organization to succeed, and what success looks like is the right people in the right places doing the right things whether that’s customers or employees, you’re building a community I think you just need to find the structure that’s right for your organization. So, for me a big word in that is freedom within parameters. You can remove as many parameters as possible to enable people to do their best work in the best way but there will always be some parameters, don’t kill anyone, don’t break the law, whatever it might be. For example, often when we talk about organizations or workplaces we think about office jobs. An office jobs, yes you can do from home, a lot of them you can do from a coffee shop, but if you’re a manufacturing company and you have to run a manufacturing machine between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. you can’t say to your manufacturing team the people running that machine, come in at midnight if you like because that’s when you work your best, actually that machine has to run so that’s the parameter for that business. But the real thing about structure is you look at what is the minimum structure you need? What do you need to achieve as a business? How do you need to do it? How do you need people to behave? And what’s the absolute minimum rules or parameters you can put around that while giving people the freedom to act and do their best work. The less structure you have the more things can happen like information can flow and when information can flow between two people or two points in your company that’s where new perspectives and new ideas come from that’s how you can understand the insight on how to serve your customers better how to give your employees a better experience of work to enable them to do their best job. It’s just all about building a community and enabling it to thrive.

 

Jim Rembach:   As you were talking I start thinking about something and I’ve always said for the longest time is how the word policy is just such a nasty thing it’s nasty from a customer experience perspective it’s nasty from an employee perspective. And when you start talking about fluid iteration if you’re overladen with policy it’s not going to happen.

 

Andy Swann:   Completely. There’s a lot of things in the book that talks about policy, we’re going into it in detail, but my view is if you can’t tweak a policy on the old-fashioned 140 character tweaks that was—if you can’t tweak a policy then it’s too complicated. Actually, everything should be minimal it should be common sense as far as possible and just get out of the way and enable people to be their best in pursuit of organizational goals.

 

Jim Rembach:   That’s so true. My wife and I when we first got married we lived in Memphis for many years so it definitely stood out to me when I looked and I and I read about the five tips to introduce Elvis into your organization, how do we get him in? 

 

Andy Swann:   I can’t take credit for introducing Elvis into your business idea. It’s from a guy called Chris Paris Brown he runs a company called Upping your Elvis and I was lucky enough to interview him for The Human Workplace book. He’s a friend of mine and he does some great work with some really big companies. Actually, the whole idea is around—if you bring that bit of rock and roll and a bit of sparkle into your work and your leadership and the way your organization operates then it’s going to be more successful because we succeed when we stand out when we do our own thing when we’re individual and when we actually pursue our own goals rather than trying to copy everyone else. We need to be excited by our work because when we’re excited by work or we’re excited by the products we’re consuming or the places we go that’s what we infuse about them that’s when we spread the word that’s when we do our best that’s when we contribute our best. It’s a really simple idea but it’s just about exciting people and bringing that a little bit of rock and roll sparkle into everything you. 

 

Jim Rembach:   As you started going through and I was looking at the book a lot of these things can be easy for a brand new organization in other words you kind of just set things in motion and in place from the beginning but as an organization starts to age and you have, talking about iteration you have the iterations of different leaders and leadership and different ways that they go about doing business and you start getting all of this heaviness about the organization and losing a lot of that fluid iteration we’re talking about having to change. We have to change our behavior and change what we’ve been doing in order to open things up so that we can take advantage of the opportunities that lay in front of us. I’ve seen a lot of different philosophies associated with change, the top down the bottom up the inside out the outside in, it goes all over and over but you presented something to me that I had not seen before which is free range change. First of all my mind want to chicken but that’s not what you’re talking about, what are you talking about?

 

Andy Swann:   Okay, absolutely. I think it would have been really easy for me to write a book from a start-up perspective with all of these ideas and just go, yeah when you’re three people stick your hoodies on you can do this stuff and it’s great, but I think what I really wanted to do with this book was understand how this stuff can come through in larger, more complicated, older organizations but actually who’s out there already doing it. We found some great examples and a big part of the work that I do with organizations is helping them change for the future helping them be simpler, better, more human and how they bring those behaviors and habits into their work and their workplaces. Actually, this idea of free-range change is that it can come from anywhere in your organization. It shouldn’t be a change process that says, we’re here we’re going to hear that’s their end to end we’re going to do it I’m putting the change in a box. Actually what you really need to understand is who are these people? How are they behaving? How do they want to behave? How does the organization need them to behave? Are they the right people? Who within that group is able to be part of that change? How do we leverage their support in adopting the changes we need to bring in? It’s just kind of unleashing the change and all the different aspects of it from this kind of box of process. That goes back to what you’re saying about policy, you don’t need to put things in a box we can understand the big overview but also understand that change is cyclical. Today’s change isn’t an end to end thing it’s part of tomorrow’s organization and tomorrow’s organization will keep moving forward as well  because there’s almost a world spinning things keep evolving. The minute we stop still or we think that a change is finished or anything we’re doing is complete that’s when we get left behind in the business world so we need to be constantly moving and that was just the idea behind free range change.

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, so when I start thinking about this whole change process, and I get what you’re saying from the free range perspective and essentially finding your champions, because we do know—just look at the empirical evidence associated with change and activators and all that. Really the folks who are the champions of change that can actually do something more than just say something about it is it’s a really small percentage of folks, we’re talking two three percent that actually can be the ones who can take it forward and leave the change process and they are scattered throughout your organization. But we have to identify them, how could we identify those folks faster?

 

Andy Swann:   Identifying them is absolutely key. There will be people in your organization and it’s really wrong to assume they’re going to be the leadership. Yes the leadership might say, we’ve got some insight we need to change but broadcasting that from the top down isn’t going to drive adoption. You need to think of any change, I think of it like the day an iPhone comes out. Who’s the person waiting outside the Apple store overnight, wait to high-five the employees when they open the door and be the first in their walk out celebrating they’ve got that brand new product so they’re your ultimate change champions they’re the first people you need to find. Actually, putting the word out there is what’s happening and if you communicate within the organization and see who comes forward and says, this is an amazing idea I can’t wait for this, they’re your number one champions. 

 

Your second wave all the people who are going to the store on the first day to buy the phone and being very excited about and talking about it. He goes right through to those people who are the people and digging their heels and said, no I’m not going to buy this phone even though it might be a good thing I’m going to pretend I hate it. Actually the adoption curve just needs to go over the halfway point to get the weight of popular opinion in favor of change. And that’s what you doing you identify those evangelists those excited people who are going to bring everyone else with them because they’re infused about it and they could be anywhere within your organization. They could be at the top admittedly but actually they could be anywhere. They could be the intern who’s just come in on their first day and can’t believe what they’re seeing. But you really need to be plugged into your organization in terms of information and communication to allow them to rise to the top so you can really leverage their excitement.

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, as you were saying that I started thinking about as a society oftentimes what we’ve done to those types of people and we’ve outcast them. They aren’t the ones who we typically run around and embrace because they’re always causing us to think about things differently and slowing down something that we’re trying to get done. You’re talking about embracing, it’s not just embracing as a person who may be responsible for identifying and finding those people but it’s also having the organization embrace those types of people. So, how do we help them be successful? 

 

Andy Swann:   Big word, big phrases positive activism. Traditionally organizations will do what they’ve always done because it’s worked before and they’ll continue to do it but actually that doesn’t work in the modern world. We live in an age of disruption and innovation you need to be challenging you need to be looking for what’s the big next idea? What’s that pivot that’s going to create the future for us? So you do have to have that different mindset to be able to plug in to that you need to enable those people who are going to challenge the organization for the right reasons, let’s be clear on that has to be for the right reasons. Disruption in a negative sense is bad but disruption in positive sense for the right reasons within the organization is a great thing. So, call those people positive activists they’re the people who will be excited about doing these things in favor of a great future so they’d be happy to put their job on the line, for it their reputation on the line because they believed so much in doing something positive and there are great examples of them in the book. I found people in big organizations who time and time again we’re modernizing their organization and getting in trouble with the board having their colleagues go against them and having people say, this will never work. But they believe so much that this was the future of the organization they went for it they risked their own jobs and their own reputation on it time and time again it pays off. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Well hopefully that’ll give many others encouragement. With all of this you have to have the resiliency you have to have the ability to overcome and adapt and go against the grain and it all requires some energy. And one of the things that we look at on the show are quotes to help give us that. Is there a quote or two that you like that you can share? 

 

Andy Swann:   Okay, so absolutely I think energy is a big one word here it goes back to what we said at the very start. All an organization needs to thrive is the right people in the right places doing the right things, if you’re the wrong person you’ll know it so take yourself away go somewhere else there’s nothing wrong with shaking hands and just saying, this isn’t my place, but actually you get energy from being somewhere where you believe in it. I’m trying to think of a sound bite as I talk here but energy—energy comes from being in the right place. You know when you’re in the right place and when you’re not. Having that shared mission and being able to achieve something together is a very exciting thing whatever it is you’re trying to achieve. That’s your absolute starting point so you get energy from being one of the right people in the right place doing the right things. And I still go back to what I said in the very start when people thrive organizations thrive too and thriving is about energy as well. 

 

Andy Swann:   Well and a lot of this—going back to what kind of started on is talking about fluid iteration and in order for us to reiterate in order for us to pit it and do all that means we’ve had means we’ve had to get over. Is there a time where you’ve had to get over the hump that you can share?

 

Andy Swann:   Completely. Back in September 2014 I had been working in an organization I didn’t particularly like. I was responsible for a lot of things. I’ve got no satisfaction from my for my job and it really badly impacted my home life and my mental health and my physical health and all of these feelings and negativity. I took it upon myself to really go and experiment with what work is, what my relationship where there was, what enable me to thrive. Over time I discovered an ability to design my own career and do the work that I really wanted to do and that energize me and as I put that together I kind of realized this integration between life and work rather than these this two separations and that’s the energy that I now take forward by bringing to organizations and bring to individuals as well. So, it’s my own journey has actually enabled me to share a lot of insight into the work that I do.

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, so back then I’m starting thinking I’m seeing you in this organization I’m thinking that like with many of us we carry the burden and just think about sinking lower and lower by the weight of that burden and at some point we cast it off. Do you remember when your cast off point was?

 

Andy Swann:   Absolutely remember. I just remember I was sitting at barbecue I was having a conversation with somebody and I watched him tell me that he’d been in his job for ten years. I congratulated him he told me, he hated it he hates his employer he hated the company he work for everything he did. And I said, why do you go there? And he said, I go there for the same reason everybody else goes to work and that’s to pay for the time I’m not at work. And I sat down I thought, what a shame and then I realized I’ve been doing exactly the same thing. And so I took it upon myself and I made a resolution right there and then to do something about it and I don’t regret it at all.

 

Jim Rembach:   Thanks for sharing that. And I can tell you what you just did right there is one of the reasons why I continue to spend the time and effort to do the Fast Leader show. Somewhere sometimes somebody is going to hear somebody else’s story and then self-reflect and say, oh, boy I got a pivot. Oh, boy I have to reiterate, oh boy that’s me. We all fall into that trap it’s just a natural progression of being a human being that’s what evolving is all about, so thank you for doing that. Okay so, I had the opportunity to chat off mic and you’re actually splitting time between here and the UK, we shared reasons why, but when you start thinking about the difference in societies and the work that you’re doing over there versus here, what is some of the subtle differences that you see?

 

Andy Swann:   Absolutely. I do a lot of work with global companies and I see a lot of mindsets a very corporate mindsets, I think they’re quite global and they’re easier you kind of break them apart and you try and bring some energy in. But if you’re talking kind of culturally the difference between the mindset—you might get over in the UK compared to the US, I think in the UK we’re very hesitant we’re kind of pessimists we wait for the worst to happen. If we have an idea we would say, oh, it might not work so we won’t try it which is why we then resolve not to do anything about it. I think in the U.S. you have the opposite, you have an idea and you just assume it’s going to work and it’s going to be amazing and everyone’s cheering it and going for it, and it’s great. In those two parts are opposites there’s a really happy medium somewhere in the middle where you should have the enthusiasm going into an idea but also just making sure you’re constantly sanity checking the whole way, is this going to work? Do I have the insight to tell me how it’s going at the moment? Well just kind of plunging in headfirst and hoping for the best and then surfacing to find out what’s gone wrong. So I think there’s a lovely happy medium which is why I’ve bounced between the two places. I see myself kind of mid-Atlantic somewhere adopting that happy medium. I really love the positivity of the U.S. everybody has that kind of belief that it can make something happen when they really want to. Yeah, that’s why I like being over here but equally every now and then you need that kind of dose of British-ness.

 

Jim Rembach:   It’s an important point because a lot of times even for me when I start thinking about even just the way that I think about things. It may not be a universal or a global perspective I think we do have some very important commonalities amongst us all. The need to be part of a community and a group and have a have a purpose but how we actually execute within that is where some of the differences occur. And we need to appreciate that diversity in order for us to move the entire collective forward instead of leaving some behind.

 

Andy Swann:   Absolutely. I think diversity is a really, really relevant point and we touch upon it in the Human Workplace as well. I think particularly where you need perspectives to have ideas and creativity the biggest most important thing any organization can do is to be completely inclusive and as diverse as possible because that’s where you get the biggest contribution and the greatest range of opportunity and perspectives from, so I couldn’t agree more.

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, so now you got the book, you’re doing some consulting you’re sure you’re splitting your time between here and the UK, you got a lot of things going on but if you look at one thing that was a goal, what would it?

 

Andy Swann:   One thing is a goal—that’s a great thing. This year one of the things I would really like to do is—I have an idea, in the U.S. one of my favorite things is sweet tea. It’s something we don’t have in the UK, we’re a nation of tea drinkers we drink hot tea you drink amazing sweet tea, it’s cold and it’s the most amazing thing I’ve discovered over here. So my mission for this year, and it’s completely unrelated to my standard job and I love the idea of passion projects and side projects that enable us to do these alternative things, one of my goals for this year is to bring sweet tea to the UK.

 

Jim Rembach:   And the Fast Leader Legion, and even the southern boy here, wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. 

 

An even better place to work is an easy-to-use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone. Using this award winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondmorale.com/better. 

 

Jim Rembach:     Alright, here we go Fast Leader legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Andy, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Andy Swann, are you ready to hoedown?

 

Andy Swann:   Let’s do this 

 

Jim Rembach:   Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Andy Swann:   Insights, lack of self-confidence, lack of self-belief.

 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Andy Swann:   Listen, listen and listen.

 

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Andy Swann:   Informality under your tie under your top button and just be part of things stand back and see what happens.

 

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Andy Swann:   Communication. The ability to listen and to speak back.

 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners, and it could be from any genre, of course we’re going to put a link to The Human Workplace-People Centered Organizational Development, on your show notes page as well.

 

Andy Swann:   Thank you. I love The Purple Cow.

 

Jim Rembach:     Okay Fast Leader legion, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Andy Swann. Okay, Andy, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25. And you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you. But you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. What skill or a piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Andy Swann:   It took me a lot of years of trying to compromise before I realized that just being myself was my biggest asset. So I would I would say don’t compromise. Don’t try to be someone else at work be yourself because it’s the best thing you can ever do.

 

Jim Rembach:   Andy it was an honor to spend time with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you? 

 

Andy Swann:   Likewise, thank you for having me. My website is andyswann.com, I’m on Twitter and @andyswann. I’m on Linkedin and all the usual places and please stop by on my website. Always get in touch I’m always happy to have a conversation.

 

Jim Rembach:   Andy Swann, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

 

END OF AUDIO

 

 

141: Serena Smith: Life hasn’t necessarily been a cake walk for me

Serena Smith Show Notes Page

Serena Smith was 31-years old. She was shepherding a huge transition at work and a lot of people were looking to her for comfort and stability in the change. And her superiors were looking for results. That’s when she found a lump on her neck – it was cancer. Listen as she shares how she got over the hump.

Serena was born in Griffin, Georgia, just south of Atlanta with her two younger brothers. Spending most of her youth there, her family moved to Memphis from 5th through 10th grade and then returned back to Georgia.

Her parents had humble beginnings and worked hard to provide. Her dad always said that more money was going out than coming in, but this didn’t stop him from dreaming big. While she didn’t grow up with much excess, she didn’t lack the necessities, either. Her dad was the first to admit he couldn’t give them all that they wanted, but they had all they needed! He would remind her that no one ever said life was fair, so she couldn’t feel sorry for herself. Throughout her career, his advice has stayed with her – to work hard and make a way for herself.

Her first job included working at an afterschool daycare center. Her first career-minded job came after college, when she worked in the back office at NCNB bank. She started out opening mail in the remittance area. While she didn’t set out to look for a bank job, all these years later she’s still involved with banks, credit unions and retailers.

Serena is an award-winning executive with more than two decades of experience in the financial industry. She serves as Head of International Payments and Chief Administrative Officer for the largest division within FIS, Global Retail Payments. She is responsible for overseeing all aspects of the international payments business, as well as risk mitigation, business performance, procurement and vendor management, and B2C marketing integration, strategy and execution for the $2.6 billion division.

When it comes to the legacy she wants to leave behind, she is most proud of her family. She hopes to create plenty of memories with her children and grandchildren. In her career, she is most proud of the impact she has had on FIS with Leukemia & Lymphoma Society LLS and charity work.

For the past 17 years, she has lived in North Dallas, Texas, currently in the Prosper area. Her and her husband Robert have been married for 30 years, with three kids: two girls and a boy. Her daughters are each married and the oldest has given her two granddaughters.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @serena_a_smith to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“Building community in the workspace is important.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet

“If you want something, you have to work for it hard.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet

“You have to tell people what you want.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“You have to be better than the next person to achieve.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“Women in leadership positions help the bottom line.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“The old boys club has to go away.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“The percentage of women starting companies is a nit compared to everything else.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“Today will be the slowest day of the rest of your life.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“If you don’t swing the bat, you’ll never hit the ball.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“A lot of people are afraid to put their neck out on the line.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“If I don’t take a swing, I’m never going to get to the next level.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“It’s okay to get a no occasionally, it’s all in how you take it.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“Nobody likes change if they don’t understand the change.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“How do I help people get comfortable with where they are in the work environment?” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“Stop being so afraid.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“Speak your mind, speak your opinions, share your ideas.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

“Have no fear and press forward.” -Serena Smith Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Serena Smith was 31-years old. She was shepherding a huge transition at work and a lot of people were looking to her for comfort and stability in the change. And her superiors were looking for results. That’s when she found a lump on her neck – it was cancer. Listen as she shares how she got over the hump.

Advice for others

Stop being so afraid.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

Insecurities in my own capabilities.

Best Leadership Advice

Never take no for an answer.

Secret to Success

Life’s not fair; that’s the way I approach everything.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

The people around me and my family.

Recommended Reading

The Little Big Things: 163 Ways to Pursue EXCELLENCE

The Oz Principle: Getting Results Through Individual and Organizational Accountability

Contacting Serena Smith

Email: serena.smith [at] fisglobal.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/serena.smith.9843

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/serenaasmith/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/serena_a_smith

Resources and Show Mentions

Leukemia & Lymphoma Society – Help the Fight Against Cancer

Women in Financial Services Study

Developing a Better Place to Work

Increase Employee Engagement and Workplace Culture

Empathy Mapping

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

 

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

141: Serena Smith: Life hasn’t necessarily been a cake walk for me

 

Intro:  Welcome to the Fast Leader podcast where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotions. So move onward and upward faster by gaining significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey and personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you’ll learn how to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improve customer loyalty and reduce your cost to operate. Get over your emotional hump now by going to empathymapping.com to learn more. 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader legion, today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who can teach us a ton about a global perspective on the power of people and purpose and perseverance. Serena Smith was born in Griffin, Georgia just south of Atlanta with her two younger brothers spending most of her youth there. Her family moved to Memphis from 5th to 10th grade and then returned back to Georgia. Her parents had humble beginnings and worked hard to provide. Her dad always said that more money was going out than coming in but this didn’t stop him from dreaming big. While she didn’t grow up with much success she didn’t lack for the necessities either. Her dad was the first to admit he couldn’t give them all that they wanted but they had everything that they needed. He would remind her that no one ever said life was fair so she couldn’t feel sorry for herself. 

 

Throughout her career his advice has stayed with her to work hard and to make a way for herself. Her first job included working at an after-school daycare center. Her first career minded job came after college when she worked in the back office at NCNB bank. She started opening mail in the remittance area while she didn’t set out to look for a bank job all these years later she’s still involved with banks, credit unions, and retailers. Serena Smith is an award-winning executive with more than two decades of experience in the financial industry. She serves as the head of international payments and Chief Administration Officer for the largest division within FIS global retail payments. She is responsible for overseeing all aspects of the international payments business as well as risk mitigation, business performance, procurement and vendor management and B2C marketing integration, strategy and execution for the 2.6 billion dollar division. When it comes to the legacy she wants to leave behind she is most proud of her family. She hopes to create plenty of memories for her grandchildren and children. In her career she is most proud of the impact that she has had on FIS with Leukemia and Lymphoma Society and charity work. For the past 17 years she’s lived in North Dallas, Texas currently in the prosper area. She and her husband Robert have been married for 30 years with three kids, two girls and a boy. Her daughters are each married and the oldest has given her two granddaughters. Serena Smith are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Serena Smith:   I’m ready, thanks for having me here today.

 

Jim Rembach:   I’m glad you’re here. We’ve had some great discussions off-mic and I hope we can actually bring it to the show. I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? 

 

Serena Smith:   Absolutely. I have many passions so I’ll start with my career. When you look at what’s happening in the payment space today there’s so much change that’s happening around the world and I am passionate about understanding that change and how it impacts the people. What that means for people that are in India and what that means for people that are in Africa and in London and around the world. As we look at Financial Inclusion and the advancements of technology and it’s all about putting that in the hands of the people to make their lives better. So when I think about the impact that we can have just on people’s lives and through my interaction with payments that’s exciting for me, so that’s one—when I think about my career that’s what I think about most. 

 

And then personally you touched on it whatever you said it’s all about my family, it’s all about spending time with my granddaughter’s it’s about making an impact and building a legacy with them. And then it’s also work with the charity work that I do. So the Leukemia Lymphoma Society is special to my heart because I wouldn’t be here today without the impacts that they’ve made in research and in treatments that they have and so I am very much focused on helping to give back to LLS because I’m here today because of them and the work that they’ve done. 

 

Jim Rembach:   And that’s one of the things that initially had drew me to you because my sister-in-law is also a cancer survivor and she does work with team and training with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. It’s just amazing to me how that particular organization as well as I’m sure others do the same thing, create such a bond and a family within all of their different groups and associations and really it’s amazing how all of these people from different walks of life coming together and have the opportunity to make an impact. And we kind of see the same thing within organizations and we kind of talked about that off mic saying how people globally that we have a really great opportunity if we see it that way but there’s some challenges.

 

Serena Smith:   Yeah, when you talk about LLS and team and training you’re right there’s all walks of life of people that come together for a common goal. And their goal is to really find a cure for cancer and that’s what the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society is really focused on. It’s utilizing that money that they raise for life-saving treatments. And we see that and we’re seeing the progression that that we are having in just life spans. When I was diagnosed I was a stage four cancer patient and my prognosis if it had been even 10 years before that would not have been as good as what it was when I was going through my treatment so they were able to progress that. When you look at some of the things they’re doing today it’s massive. 

When you look at—and things like cancer and how it touches people it doesn’t discriminate it’s everybody, everybody can be touched by that impact. And so when we come together as a group we’re celebrating, we’re celebrating the advancements, we’re celebrating what’s happening and what LLS is doing for us. When you look in the workplace—I am most proud of what we’ve been able to do from an FIS perspective of bringing our community of employees together around the world as we have looked at not only LLS but different charity work that we do in our different campuses that we have . It’s important for me and important for all of us I think is as we look at our businesses and we look at our impacts that we’re having on people and how we’re bringing them into the fold is to make sure that we’re finding those common purposes. So, yet we go in and we do our job every single day but people have a life outside of the job. And so we’ve got to make sure that we’re caring and feeding for that as well. Charity work is a part of that and then I think building communities within the work space is important as well.

 

Jim Rembach:   We talked off mic about this whole community building aspects and the fact is that there’s a lot of implicit biases.  Implicit biases are just something that we all have and it basically comes down to that when anybody is different from us there’s a bias sometimes it’s positive sometimes it’s not. And so when you start thinking about the position that you are in such a large organization within the financial services industry, first of all being of course female and then you know being a cancer survivor, when you start thinking about the potential bias by the majority of men who are in the financial services industry, how have you had the opportunity to continue to push forward and really obtain greater levels of responsibility and have such a positive impact?

 

Serena Smith:   I think everybody that knows me will say that I don’t know how to take the answer of no so I push my way through that. if you take a step back whenever I was first going through my cancer treatments and I was coming out of that I didn’t talk about it for a very long time and I didn’t talk about it because I was really afraid of the, just as you said those unconscious biases that happen in the workplace and how I would be viewed I’m already a woman so in a male-dominated field so financial services whether we like to admit it or not is primarily driven by men, so when you look at that I was a little bit afraid to talk about that because I already had some, being a woman in this space, already had, I don’t want to call it a negative but I had some challenges to overcome and then I didn’t want to pile onto that the fact that I was a cancer survivor and have people look at me a little bit differently so I didn’t talk about it. It took a long time I think maturity and just maturing and getting comfortable in my own skin as I started to excel throughout the organization got me more comfortable with being myself and that’s when I started talking about being a survivor. But it took some time for me to get to that place because if you look at females in the financial space a lot of, because it is a male-dominated space a lot of men don’t understand the challenges that we have and they don’t recognize those. I can’t say that I can fault everybody for that because it happens just naturally the way that we look at people. 

Part of what I’ve done over the last couple of years is really focused on understanding what’s happening in this space and how we as women can continue to excel. And so what we’re finding is there’s an Oliver Wyman study that’s out that talks about women and financial services and in that study what it clearly shows us is that women whenever we get to the middle to senior management ranks within financial services realm are leaving. We’re leaving because you get to a certain point and you start to question what is it that I’m really here for? What’s the purpose? You start to ask yourself those questions. Not that it’s any different from a man but as a woman we’re just treated a little bit different. I’ll give you a great example, I was sitting in a meeting not too long ago only woman sitting at the table which is typically normal for me which is okay I’m comfortable with that. And operationally, because I’m an Operations gal at heart, so operationally I give an answer to a question and one of the senior leaders looks to my male counterpart to validate that what I said was correct. Well, he would have never done that if he would have answered the question, he would have never looked at me to say is that correct but he was validating my response and so as women those are the types of things that happen just unconsciously all the time. 

 

Part of what I do is I try to understand what those challenges are. Coming up my dad always told me, if you want something you have to work for it hard, so I’ve always worked hard, you also have to tell people what you want, so I’ve always been very vocal about telling people what I want, and then you always have to go after and be better than the next person if you want to achieve what you want to achieve. And so what I’m trying to do is help women to see what their roles can be in this space because statistics also show that women in leadership positions will actually help the bottom line. If you’ve got a woman that’s a CEO of a company you’re going to find that that company will be more profitable. And so I’m also trying to help the men in our organization to understand that piece as well because there’s a lot of value that we can bring the table the old boys club has to go away. At the end of the day that’s really where we are.

 

Jim Rembach:   Thanks for sharing that story because that gets into—as you were talking I started thinking about so many different things and a lot of it for me came down to choice. You’re talking about a lot of those women leaving the financial services industry. Their choice is that they didn’t want to put up with it anymore and I don’t want to say quit but they’d had enough. The choice for you was that you’re not going to let that affect you and you’re going to continue to push on and persevere. There’s a couple of things to that are really interesting when you started talking about that impact of females and the bottom line piece is that there’s also research that shows that creative thinking is higher so that means that’s the foundation of innovation so that you can have greater innovation when you have that female perspective that whole boys club thing has to go away for a lot of different reasons. First of all because society is just not going to accept it. And the second is that when you start talking about the competitive aspects of the marketplace is that if you’re not having creative thinking and you’re not having innovation and you’re not being able to accept different perspectives you will fail. 

 

Serena Smith:   Right. There’s a couple people that I’ve heard and read articles lately Jack Ma who is the CEO of Alibaba who you are in financial he recently published an article that talked about how he would prefer to have women in leadership roles because they can multitask their bottom lines are going to be better they have that creative thinking that you’re talking about. The short ** guy, I forget his name I watched a speech that he did recently where he talked about how this women ran companies perform much better than the companies that are ran by men. And then he also talked about how if he could have more women in those leadership positions he’d have a woman running all of us all of his companies. The challenge that we have though is that a lot of startups today—so if you’re in the financial space you’re hearing about all the startups you’re hearing about all these companies that are trying to find their niche in this new world as we are in this transition phase in regards to financial services. 

 

When you look at the startups that are there the percentage of women that are starting companies is a niche compared to everything else, you just can’t find them. Even with our own accelerator program that we’ve put together I think we’ve had one woman that’s come through that’s actually made it through the finalist’s phase, what does that tell us? You can interpret that into a thousand different things and it can tell you know lots of things. One of the things that I talk to a lot of women about that I think that attributes to is that kind of like myself, young in my career I was very unsure I always wanted to make sure that I could check every box before I would ask for the next promotion or even apply for the next thing and women today haven’t changed. So, if you’ve got a male and a female with exactly the same skills and the apply or there’s a job opening if a woman doesn’t meet every single criteria of that particular job opening she won’t apply because she thinks that she can’t get that job whereas the male he will look at the job qualifications and if he meets 40 % of those he’ll apply and he’ll probably get the job because he’ll figure it out but a woman just won’t they just won’t do that. 

 

Jim Rembach:   One of the things when I mentor a lot of women what I talk about is you got to feel comfortable in your own skin you can figure it out you’re smart you just got to take that leap of faith and so we’ve got to have more women to do that.

 

Serena Smith:     That is true. You talk about that startup issue also when you look at studies associated with  funding and VC funding and PE funding and all of that and when you look at who gets funded very, very small percentage are actually females that are getting funded because of the gender bias issue it’s a noted problem. You also look at certain industries like the science and tech sector whole stem type of space more and more women are not excelling and becoming engineers, I mean the rates are dropping, is it any wonder that we’ve had a continued decline in the return on investment of R&D? Is it any wonder that we’ve had stagnant growth in our GDP if we keep forcing women out of these upper level positions and not funding their ideas? There’s somebody who has actually runs the nonprofit called “girls that code” or “women that code” and she says how guys when they code they code games girls when they code they actually code things that are going to impact and better the world, I think we need more of that.

 

Yeah. I also read an article recently that talked about how we have to start with these kids to get them into those fields those science and technology fields you have to start before elementary school you’ve got to start. And when you look at—my granddaughter, my oldest ones three, and so when you look at with the iPad and the iPhone how she at three years old can go to YouTube and pick the video that she wants to see and go past that if she doesn’t and she can she can go through all of those apps. The boy next her can do the same thing however when they get into school, and our female teachers do this too, when they get into school and our kids start going through math and they start learning that studies show that teachers will spend more time with the boys on math and science than they will with the girls. Why is that? I don’t think that they recognize that they’re doing that I think that’s just what they do that’s just part of that unconsciousness that we have in what we do. Where we need to be encouraging these girls that math and science is something that they need to focus on as well and that’s important to them. Once you get in the middle school those girls, I talk all the time about girls are mean when they get in the middle school. So you’ve got to get them earlier the middle school because once they get in the middle school they’re already mean. They’ve already decided what they’re going to be and what they’re going to go after. 

 

Jim Rembach:   That’s a good point. I also find it interesting when I looked at the curriculum going into high school, my kids are going to school my daughter’s my oldest, is that really they don’t even get exposed to any entrepreneurial-ism opportunities or any coding or technology base types of classes until their junior, I’m like, ho! They’re already set, that’s too late. 

 

Serena Smith:   You know, when I was in school I remember elementary school Girl Scouts would come in to the school and even within the classroom I remember learning about Junior Achievement and going through some of those things we don’t enforce that enough we don’t have enough of that we’re such a busy society. When you look at the different options that we have those easy things like JA and Girl Scouts and things like that could drive some of that because Junior Achievement that’s what that is. You’re a kid and you’re thinking about how do I grow this business? What does business look like? I remember going through those classes that was fun that was really fun.

 

Jim Rembach:   All of what we’ve been talking about here there’s just a whole lot of passion that’s wrapped around it and one of the things that we look at on the show are quotes. Is there a quote or two that you can share? 

 

Serena Smith:   There are two quotes that I hang on to one from a business perspective and then one just a personal one. From a business perspective the one that I liked and loved today is all about change—With the world changing faster every day today will be the slowest day of the rest of your life—so you think about that. How true is that? Because when you think about the technology that’s being introduced and how fast those adoption rates are and how quickly that’s happening it’s faster than any other time in our history. So when you look at an ATM I think we just celebrated the 50th year of the ATM or something like that it took us 20 plus years to get to 50 million users for an ATM. However, when you look at pay PayPal it took I think four years for them to get to 50million users. And when you look at Instagram and you look at Facebook and the time that it took them it’s even shorter. 

 

So when you look at what’s happening the pace of change is happening so fast. I love that quote—The world is changing faster every day today will be the slowest day of the rest of your life—if you really sit down and think about it that’s kind of scary and it’s also very true. And then on a personal note I’m a huge baseball fan so one of my bucket list items is to visit all the major league baseball parks so I’ve gotten about  done so I’m on my way. But the one that I I’ve liked for a very long time is—If you don’t swing the bat you’ll never hit the ball so you have to take chances. As I’ve grown in my career one of the things we’ve talked about is I’m a woman who has international responsibilities who’s made an impact on our company from a charitable standpoint I’ve really done that—one, by the help of a lot of people around me and two because I haven’t been afraid to just ask and push forward. I think a lot of people are afraid to do that they’re afraid to put their neck out on the line but I’ve always held on to that if I don’t take a swing I’m never going to get to the next level I’m never going to get to the place I want to be. It’s okay to get a no occasionally and it’s okay to get feedback and all that other kind of stuff it’s all on what you do and how you take it and how you adjust to that. So, that’s one that I really like. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Those are two excellent ones. You talk about you know swinging and adjusting and all of that we have to do a lot of that throughout life. We talked about many of the humps that you’ve had to get over but is there a story that you can share?

 

Serena Smith:   Yeah. I will tell you. Life hasn’t necessarily been a cakewalk for me it’s been—lots of challenges throughout my career lots of adjustments that I’ve had to make lots of turns in the road as we’ve gone through this. I think as I think through the time I found out I had cancer or on my 31st birthday. I’m sitting in the office at work I’m find this lump on my neck and I called the doctor and he says, oh, I’ll see you next week. I’m like, no, no, no, you’re going to see me today and so that was a traumatic time in my life. But also during that same time I was going through a huge transition in the office where we were going through a process where we were looking for efficiencies intractable—we were putting in a tracking system for all of the work that we did. So, massive implementation I’m the site manager at this time I’m having to help my people to adjust through this change as I’m going through this life event as well. 

 

And I will tell you that it took a lot of people supporting man around me to help me. I remember as I was going through this I recorded the folks that were in Chicago I’ve got them calling me looking for updates on this project as I’m lying in a hospital bed I’ve got my assistant with my PC beside me as we’re working and I’ve also got a team of people who are looking to me to lead them through this process and helping them to understand change because nobody likes change and nobody likes change if they don’t understand the change and they don’t buy into that change. And so I will tell you as we went through that transition that was probably the best thing that happened to me as I was going through cancer treatment because I’m going to tell you it took my mind off of what I was going through. But it was also the hardest thing as I’m trying to help shepherd people through a massive organizational change on the way that we are confronting our work on a day to day basis and how we’re changing that comfort level that they have and how they process that work into something different. It was definitely a team effort it was a process by which we had to communicate more so than what we ever had before. 

 

It was a process where we had to ensure we didn’t have the luxury of podcast and we didn’t have the luxury of video conferencing like we do today those were the exception base those were only for the executive offices at that time. I will tell you as we went through that process I learned and matured more than you could ever imagine. Because as you’re going through a personal event and then you’re going through a massive work event and I think it was a blessing for me that it all happened the way that it did but I think it matured me as I went through that because I had to think of more folks other than myself. And I think I kept that as I move forward because it wasn’t just about me and it wasn’t just about what we were going through but it was about how do I help people to get comfortable with where they are in the work environment and that was important for me as we went through that transition. 

 

Jim Rembach:   The Fast Leader Legion wishes you the rest of your days to be cancer free. 

 

Serena Smith:   Thank you. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

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Jim Rembach:   Alright here we go Fast Leader legion it’s time for the hump day hoedown. Okay, Serena the hump day hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Serena Smith are you ready to hoedown?

 

Serena Smith:   I’m ready. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Serena Smith:   Myself. Insecurities in my own capabilities.

 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Serena Smith:   Never take no for an answer.

 

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Serena Smith:   My dad always told me that life’s not fair and so that’s the way I approach everything. 

 

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Serena Smith:   The people around me and my family.

 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book, and it could be from any genre, that you’d recommend to our listeners?

 

Serena Smith:   I actually have two, The Little Big Things by Tom Peters and the Oz Principle. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader listeners, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going too fastleader.net/Serena Smith. Okay, Serena, this is my last hump day hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Serena Smith:   Stop being so afraid. When I was young I was so afraid to just speak my mind, speak my opinions, share my ideas I was very hesitant in that I think now that I’m matured I’ve grown more comfortable with that. I would say have no fear and press forward. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Serena it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with?

 

Serena Smith:   Sure. My email address is serena.smith@fisglobal.com or you can connect with me on Facebook, LinkedIn or Twitter.

 

Jim Rembach:   Serena Smith thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO

 

Edwina Cowell Spiritual Playdate

140: Edwina Cowell: When people show you who they are believe them

Edwina Cowell Show Notes Page

Edwina Cowell and her team began to work with a developer for their website. She began to witness the developer being disrespectful, defensive, and angry. But she ignored those signs and the situation began to escalate. She did finally get a website out of it that needed to be replaced in six months.

Edwina was born in Chicago and raised in Lincolnwood, IL a suburb just north of the city. Her Polish Catholic family was solidly middle class with a blue-collar dad that was a WWII vet and a tool and die maker and a 5′ tall mom who raised the kids and took care of the house, without ever learning to drive a car. Edwina and her sister went to school and stayed close to home throughout their early years as was expected of them. Her sister studied psychology at University of Illinois Chicago and Edwina studied Philosophy and Theology at Felician College, also in Chicago.

As she ventured into the world, Edwina had many jobs and dove into each and every one with enthusiasm, pride and the strong work ethic she inherited from her parents. With her ability to learn things quickly and her natural ease with people, she excelled at all of them. Her first job in a deli led to her promotion to catering coordinator in a year. When she was paying her way through college, a friend landed her a summer job at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange where she worked her way up to pit broker and then, in just a few years, bought her own seat. She traded on the floor there for 17 years and was one of only 4 women in a pit of 300 men. In 1989, as a volunteer at Evanston Animal Control, she saw the need for a non-profit and founded the 501-c3 C.A.R.E. which has sheltered, cared for and placed thousands of homeless animals and is still in operation today. She also owns and operates her own successful interiors business in the North Suburbs of Chicago.

But even all of this was still not enough for Edwina. When her first son was 7, she and friends were all struggling with organized religion and how to “raise” their kids. She realized that discussions about life, god (with a small g), forgiveness, gratitude and love were not taking place in many people’s homes. Those subjects were out-sourced to a “teacher” once a week on Sundays for 45 minutes and no one was giving kids the context of teaching them about the other religions of the world.  This didn’t sit well with her so she went about the business of creating something entirely new to bring those conversations home again and make them broader and more inclusive so that kids could have a more realistic picture of the world and become critical thinkers.

In 2007, the first Spiritual Playdate took place in her home on the family room floor.  Kids and moms sat in a circle, played games and asked questions and talked about big tough topics. It was an idea whose time has come and from that simple concept arose SpiritualPlaydate.com, a fresh and exciting program that is now accessible online by families, teachers and houses of worship worldwide. In collaboration with faith educators and leaders from around the globe, and as the CVO of SpirutualPlaydate.com, Edwina continues to strive to provide outstanding and engaging content and is excited to have helped spark the growing movement of interfaith education for families and children.

Edwina currently resides in the Chicago area with her husband Hal of 32 years and her 2 teenage sons.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @EdwinaFelice to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“It’s time we start talking with each other and thinking more critically.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet

“There are 22 versions of the Golden Rule.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet 

“It’s really important that we start treating each other differently.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet 

“It has become time to start to understand one another.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet

“Cultures have intermingled to the point where we need to learn what other people think.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet

“Until we have proof or disproof, we need to allow people to be on their own path.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet 

“It is critical that we be truth students.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet 

“We’re all looking for truth.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet 

“We have to be innovative with our companies to create community.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet

“We’ve got to find a way for us to accept each other.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet

“It is the question that enlightens, not the answer.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet 

“Asking questions, that’s really where the enlightenment comes.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet

“When people show you who they are, believe them.” -Edwina Cowell Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Edwina Cowell and her team began to work with a developer for their website. She began to witness the developer being disrespectful, defensive, and angry. But she ignored those signs and the situation began to escalate. She did finally get a website out of it that needed to be replaced in six months.

Advice for others

Create more win-win relationships. They all need to serve ourselves and others at the same time.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

Time. Enough time.

Best Leadership Advice

Check your ego at the door.

Secret to Success

Win-win relationships

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

Win-win relationships.

Recommended Reading

The Mission-Driven Venture: Business Solutions to the World’s Most Vexing Social Problems (Wiley Nonprofit Authority)

Contacting Edwina Cowell

Email: Edwina [at] spriritualplaydate.com

Website: https://spiritualplaydate.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwina-cowell-54432332/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdwinaFelice

Resources and Show Mentions

Developing a Better Place to Work

Increase Employee Engagement and Workplace Culture

Empathy Mapping

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

 

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

140: Edwina Cowell: When people show you who they are believe them

Intro Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

 

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotions. So, move onward and upward faster by gaining significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey and personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you’ll learn how to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improved customer loyalty and reduce your cost to operate. Get over your emotional hump now by going to empathymapping.com to learn more. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader Legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s really going to help us focus in on some, I guess, critical connections really now that we have to make. Edwina Cowell was born in Chicago and raised in Lincolnwood, Illinois. Her polish Catholic family was solidly middle class with a blue-collar dad that was a WWII veteran and a tool and die maker. Her mother was a mighty 5′ tall mom who raised the kids and took care of the house. without ever learning to drive a car. Edwina and her sister went to school and stayed close to home throughout their early years. Her sister studied psychology at University of Illinois Chicago and Edwina studied Philosophy and Theology at Felician College in Chicago.

As she ventured into the world, Edwina had many jobs and dove into each and every one with enthusiasm, pride and the strong work ethic she inherited from her parents. Her first job in the deli led to her promotion to catering coordinator in a year. Then a friend landed her a summer job at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange where she worked her way up to pit broker and then, in just a few years, bought her own seat and she traded on the floor for 17 years and was one of only 4 women in a pit of 300 men. In 1989, she founded a non-profit C.A.R.E. has sheltered cared for and place thousands of homeless animals. She also owns and operates her own successful interiors business but even all of these was not enough for Edwina. 

When her first son was 7, she and her friends were all struggling with organized religion in how to “raise” their kids. She realized that discussions about life, god, forgiveness, gratitude and love were not taking place in many people’s homes. Those subjects were out-sourced to a “teacher” once a week on Sundays for 45 minutes and no one was giving kids the context of teaching them about the other religions of the world.  This didn’t sit well with her so she went about the business of creating something entirely new to bring those conversations home and make them broader and more inclusive so that kids could have a more realistic picture of the world and become critical thinkers.

In 2007, Spiritual Playdate was launched. A fresh and exciting program that is now accessible online by families, teachers and houses of worship worldwide. Edwina currently resides in the Chicago area with her husband Hal of 32 years and her 2 teenage sons. Edwina Cal are you ready to help us get over the hump? 

Edwina Cowell:    I am so ready to get you guys over the hump. 

 

Jim Rembach:   I appreciate having you here. I’ve given our Legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Edwina Cowell:    Sure. My current passion has to do with my program spiritual playdate and the expansion of just a new way of communicating and connecting with each other not just with our children but with we as adults it’s time that we start talking to each other thinking more critically about all of our ideas that have been delivered to us and that we question some of our some of our upbringing and some of these traditions that we’ve had for a long time. So my particular passion has moved just not just from spiritual playdate but actually into the idea of the golden rule of which there are twenty two versions of the Golden Rule, twenty two different religions have a version of the golden rule. 

 

The golden rule isn’t, I’ll be nice to you you’d be nice to me and that’s how we teach it we teach it as do unto others as you’d like them to do unto you. But if you look at all twenty two versions of this golden rule and you boil it down what it says is you and I come from the same source whatever you want to call that source we return to that source we’re the same if I hurt you I hurt me and when I help you I lift us both up I lift us all up. And so that has really become my passion through spiritual playdate and through everything else that I do through my other business and through my life relationships it is about win-win relationships it’s about starting to really authentically treating people in a caring way and thinking about how to relate to people so that people don’t walk away feeling like they’ve been taken advantage of. Whether that’s boss-employee husband-wife parent-child it’s really, really important that we start to treat each other differently. And that boils down to some of these teachings that come through all these spiritual wisdoms. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Thanks for sharing that. One of the reasons why I wanted to have you on this show is because when I look at many of the people who I’ve had as guests on the show I start seeing a lot how things are just really are interconnected. Dr. K.H. Kim talked us having a creativity problem and it goes into us not being able to make these connections in the way that our education system is actually structured and we can’t get these things fixed, right? Why? Because we can’t have some of these deeper conversations and move some things forward. We’re actually raising one of the loneliest generations ever because when we start thinking about, Oh what are you talking about we’re so socially connected in all these platforms? No people are connected to their own individual screens and they get isolated from society. And so with people in the workplace right now what are they told? We don’t talk about politics and religion. Well gosh, if you’re not doing that how you going to connect at a deeper level have find a sense of fit, well-being, trust so that you can actually collaborate. 

 

Edwina Cowell:    And I think we have come to a point now where really all this fear and this misunderstanding has been revealed. I do think something good could come out of this is now—has become time to start to understand each other. Our cultures have become intermingled to the point where we need to learn what other people think. We need to allow them to be on their path. There’s an interesting quote believe It or not, Charles Krauthammer quite a bit. He wrote an article years ago about how Republicans—I wasn’t going to get into politics—but the Republicans think Democrats are stupid and Democrats think Republicans are evil. And Democrats aren’t stupid and Republicans aren’t evil and I always take that and frame it around theism and around belief in God. Atheists think, many atheists, I don’t want to just paint it with two bat of a bash but many atheists think that theists are stupid and many theists think atheists are evil and neither is true. 

 

We all have these theories about how we got here where did life come from none of them are proven and none of them are disproven and until we have proof or disproof we need to allow people to explore those theories and be on their own paths. I will say that I think it is critical that we continue to question could continue to learn be truth students. And I think that’s what’s many spiritual paths and also atheist and scientific paths we’re all looking for truths that’s what we’re looking for and as long as their theories and that’s what they are at this moment we need to allow each other to be on those paths and we need to not indoctrinate our kids. We want our kids to have—many people want their kids to have a faith in something and I certainly do. But at the same time what I really want is my kid to have tools that helped him cope in life about forgiveness, gratitude, meditation, love, and understanding and connection those are the things that most people really send their kids off to Saturday is school Sunday-school for those particular things. But that’s not often what they come home with they come home with clothes and Bible studies and stories but they don’t sit and really talk about some of these things that are just critical throughout the course of their lives and that is one of the reasons why we created spiritual playdate.

 

Jim Rembach:   Thanks for sharing that– what you were saying is that, and I kind of see the same thing too but I think they’re drawers required—one of the things that they say about the Lord is that he doesn’t give us  youth and wisdom at the same time. While we can get a good foundation an exposure and perspective and things like that it takes time for us to actually start putting it together and see where we fit. And that’s kind of I think some of the issue is that—and here’s a funny irony when you start thinking about all this is that one of the major things that younger folks look for in an organization to work for is they look for purpose. Purpose is an extremely important component in two ways to attract talent and then to retain top talent.

 

If people don’t feel that they’re far part of a bigger purpose that’s the revolving door right there, I don’t believe in this I don’t have a connection I’m not engaged with it and so you know what? Oh, you’re going to pay me $0.50 cents more an hour or you’re going to pay me a hundred dollars more a week I’m out of here, there’s just not going to be any connection. If we’re not getting to them when their young they’re young they’re seeking it when they’re older but if we don’t talk about some of these things and really connect with the individuals at their level because we can’t talk about politics, we talk about religion, how are we going to find purpose? We’ve got to push past those barriers. So, what would you suggest that people do in order to help them kind of break this malaise?

 

Edwina Cowell:    Well I think, we as a culture—again it’s sort of goes back to everything being separate. Capitalism is sort of undergoing what a lot of economists would like to see as a reformation. A lot of economists believe that capitalism has led us down there have been some pretty frightening things that we’ve gone through that we’ve been set up for. One of the ways around that many people believe is to have more conscious corporations more communities that tie back more business communities that tie back to their communities. And you see it in a lot of different ways. Now you see people collecting money or people working in other countries businesses that have—perfect example is there’s a company called Interphase and it’s part of a carpeting company and they have gone out into third-world island countries and they’re paying the community there to retrieve plastic driftnets from the ocean then they take those driftnets and they recycle it into new carpeting. Okay, now that’s a connection that is that win/win kind of attitude there’s a purpose. Individual purpose I think is different than people being connected and looking for ways to create wins for their community and not just affect their bottom line. We happen to be an L3C. Okay, an L3C is a new designation, it’s not a 501C3 which is a non- profit and it’s not a corporation it is a hybrid between the two. 

 

Jim Rembach:   I think it’s about 6 or 7 years old it’s legal in all 50 states and what they call it is the corporation with the soul of a non-profit. And it’s a structure that allows for sustainability. It allows for us to not be beholden to our bottom line but beats beholden to our mission. So, it doesn’t mean that you so it doesn’t mean that you can’t make money it doesn’t mean you can’t make money it doesn’t mean you can have assets it’s set up more like a corporation. But what it does mean is that your mission supersedes your bottom line. So, just because you can make an extra 0.50 cents doing this doesn’t mean you do it. Is it serving community? What is your mission? 

 

We’re very excited about this it is still quite new but we’re very excited about this because we feel like this has great potential in the world for companies to be sustainable. I’ve been a volunteer, I’m a recovering volunteer I started the 501C3 in 1990 something whatever, but you know what? I’m tired I’m tired of begging for money. I am tired of volunteering and not getting paid people that work deserve to be paid they deserve to be paid so that they can still sustain their own lives and communities and families. I really think we have to shift a lot of these thinking the things that are letting us down we have to be innovative. We have to be innovative in business. We have to be innovative with our companies. You are seeing it more and more there are more companies out there connecting back in looking for ways to not just not just earn a solid prosperous living but also better the world. Create community. Help people. That’s what we need to do and that is purpose—personal purpose as well as purpose for business.

 

Jim Rembach:   Yeah. There was a phrase that I saw that to me just kind of fits this perfectly and saying how people no longer are looking to work for the company that is the best in the world they’re looking to work for companies that are the best for the world. 

 

Edwina Cowell:    I love that. 

 

Jim Rembach:   And I do too. And I think that’s something that when I start thinking about my own kids that I want to teach them and when they start looking for potential places to work or even careers for that matter I want to teach them that, hey, is this company one of the ones that are better for the world  because that’s where you’re going to find connection and that’s where you’re going to find passion and that’s where you’re going to find fulfilment and that’s where you’re going to give your all and feel like it was well worth it, not that you’re being taken advantage of like you were saying.

 

Edwina Cowell:    I totally agree.

 

Jim Rembach:   So when you start thinking about the Spiritual Playdate and going through that and I can imagine there was just so much learning that went on from those mothers that were starting on that living room floor but when you start you’re looking at the particular program and the impacts that has had, what would you say have been one of the surprises.

 

Edwina Cowell:    I think the surprise without a doubt is how much I have learned about myself and how much my ideas have evolved. And for me, again, this was our first—Playdate on the living-room floor was almost 12 years ago now probably. It’s so interesting to me, I mean where the world is now versus the world then and where—just even the term interface, which was a word that nobody even knew what it meant and there were some clergy getting together on an occasion. Interfaith is enormous buzz word right now because of all the problems that we have around religion and if religion is to survive in any shape or form we have got to find a way for us all to, I think for me the path that it’s put me on, again it was just sort of started out of a need. The path that it’s put me on is surprising every day because for example I’m here right now and I feel like I have such a clear vision of my purpose at this stage of life which I have to be honest I don’t think a lot of people necessarily do. I ought to be an empty-nester and most empty-nesters, not most empty-nesters just many empty nesters, struggle with what that next chapter looks like. And I think I have a very clear vision of what my next chapter is starting to shape up to be. So, I think that’s probably my biggest surprise but I always am amazed at how all these experience continue to shape my thinking and bring me to a new place and expose me to new ideas and new people and new experiences in my life, it’s very exciting.

 

Jim Rembach:       Definitely all of this that we’re talking about everything from the workplace, the loneliness, the connection, the spiritual all this stuff is just wrapped in so much powerful emotion. And one of the things that we do on the show is we look for quotes to kind of help us give us that energy. Is there a quote or two that you can share?

 

Edwina Cowell:    I have many quotes. I’m going to say the quote and then I’m going to explain why I think this is my quote and then I’m going to say the quote again. Okay, my quote would be, “It is the question that enlightens and not the answer.” The reason that I feel that this is so important is this is our philosophy with Spiritual Playdate. So, Spiritual Playdate our conversations for parents to have and activities and meditations and all these other things that’s all delivered online. Simply you go to whatever topic you want to, open it up and it’s all there for parents, educators but it’s done in a Socratic method it’s done in a script of questions. Okay, you don’t need to have the answer and your kids don’t need to have the answer and you don’t need to dictate the answer you need to ask the question. What is God? What do you think heaven is? What do you think hell? What does forgiveness mean? Can you forgive yourself? Can you—when you start asking questions the kids start thinking about what it means to them. 

 

First of all, I will tell you that most of the adults that were taking this they’re always surprised at how many ideas the kids actually have that we’re not aware of. But when you just deliver whether it’s theology or anything you’re just sort of—I think I’ve mentioned this before but I had this  conversation with a friend and a colleague and he was saying it’s getting harder for me to put my kids in a situation where we sit them down and tell them this is what you believe. And I thought that that was so fascinating because if you really just take that phrase that’s what we’ve been doing with kids in that situation. I will sit down in a classroom and I was told this is what you believe this is what is happening in the universe and this is what is true. I allowed to question it I wasn’t allowed to think about it I wasn’t allowed to weigh in on it and like many teenagers who start to think more critically I ran away from a lot of those ideas with my hair on fire when I 18 and I rejected it all. And I’d said that’s nonsense I don’t believe any of that. So, my quote again about—you know we always wonder why our teenagers, for lack of a better phrase it not bright? We can’t even believe that they can’t think sometimes. But we tell them to do something as opposed to asking them to think about something and getting them to figure out the answer and that light bulb goes on and then they go do it. Instead of just preaching at our kids and I do mean preaching in all fashions and I don’t I just mean—and this is true for employees this is true for adult to adult conversations where you disagree, asking questions that is really where the enlightenment comes. It’s where we start to be creative and thinking be more critical in thinking because it turns our brains on. A teen, his brains shut off, an employee that’s in a cubicle just doing data—their brains are shut off they’re just going through the motions. When you start asking questions their brains turn on. And so that is one of my favorite and it has influenced me greatly through Spiritual Playdate and it was very important to us to not predispose any of these beliefs to kids or adults or anybody else to ask questions about them. 

 

Jim Rembach:   When you start thinking about all of this is that like I think you kind of said it, there’s a lot of humps that you’ve gotten over in order to be able to get to where you are today. You also talked about the multiple businesses you’re obviously a creative thinker it’s always have to stay in motion and you have a huge heart wanting to help a lot of ways including animals. But there’s a lot of teachings and learnings from, like you said yourself, gone on along the way. Is there a time where you’ve had to get over the hump that you can share with us? 

 

Edwina Cowell:    Yes. I can. I would say that that was probably several years ago. When we were starting up our digital program we signed on and started the web development and we had a small group our staff our team was three or four at that time it’s still not a very large group but it’s larger than that but at the time everybody was very involved in everything because it was it was a very creative process at the beginning and we were starting our web development. And we had laid out some decent money for our web site we and we encountered a web developer who I saw some flags early on of him being kind of a little disrespectful and defensive and angry and I ignore those flags. The situation continued to escalate and escalate and escalate and we got a website out of it. 

 

At that time I think I was worried that we had put down all this money and we weren’t going to get through this I was going to have to start over and so I was wrestling with this. Do I just cut bait? What do I do? And so I hung in there and it was kind of ugly and he was so disrespectful to some of my team and everybody every meeting felt—everything we were doing was just dreaded. We got through the entire thing, got our website and within six months realized we had to have the entire website rebuilt and spend the money to have it redone anyway. I think I got through that hump but I have a huge learning experience. When people show you who they are believe them. Just because there’s some money put down don’t let that dictate. This has cost us far more in the long run to redo everything and the timing and everything else then had I pulled the plug and walked away from that initial investment on that.  I got us through it but it wasn’t what I would do today I hope in terms of getting us all through it.

 

I’d sure tell that story. I started thinking, yup, because I think part of that comes down to talking about that personality wanting to help people and things like that. You wait sometimes too long and don’t pull the trigger when you need.

 

Jim Rembach:   The problem with that one was that it wasn’t just the money. We had already come so far with this website and you don’t want to start you don’t want to do all that—just the idea of doing all that work over again I’ve done that work over ten times getting the new site together. So, it didn’t save me anything it didn’t help our team it didn’t help that person let him know that he shouldn’t be treating people like this all of those things, it didn’t really serve anyone. I could have done it differently. I’m much more aware of that kind of thing now in terms of being protective of my team or realizing I’m in with somebody that doesn’t align with my way of treating people or my vision. 

 

Edwina Cowell:    I think that’s an interesting point. For me, I’ve tried to do a better job of trying to find people that I can connect with and have a respectful relationship with even if it’s commercial relationship. Me myself, I had a situation where I had to let a situation go and say, I’m not interested, because of what you were just saying. I saw the sign I saw that it was disrespect I was disregarded they saw no value in me so I’m like why should I just keep subjecting myself to this I’ll go find somebody where they will appreciate me and sometimes we don’t do that enough. When you started thinking about—I know you got a lot of things going on talking about being empty-nester, you got Spiritual Playdate, you have your interiors company, and you just have a lot of things. You may have already mentioned this but you help us understand what’s going to your big goals right now? 

 

Well as this has unfolded I probably wasn’t aware of the potential that this had because the climate in the world was not where it is right now. The response has always been people are just amazed they’re like, okay, this isn’t incredible this is just what we need this is—so, I’ve always gotten that response from people but I think now I see enormous potential in a paradigm shift in the way we approach all of this to the point of a global shift in the way we would connect with each other on this subject on these subjects you can sort of lump them all in together they’re all not that different. But wanting to understand really reaching out and connecting and wanting to learn more about each other and learn more about each other’s tradition about each other’s cultures. Religion is an interesting thing because it’s not just in a vacuum it’s deeply embedded in all of our cultures, You hear all kinds of people say, well imagine the world without religion but so many of our traditions have come from religious roots that it’s hard to imagine extracting it. Again I think a lot of people would say, you don’t want to extract it you want to improve it just like everything else we want it to evolve and get better. So I think my biggest goal really is, dare I say modest say, global paradigm shift in the way we approach religion with kids and with each other. 

 

Jim Rembach:   And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best, Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor:

 

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Jim Rembach:   Alright here we go Fast Leader Legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Edwina, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Edwina Cowell, are you ready to hoedown? 

 

Edwina Cowell:    I’m ready to hoedown.  

Jim Rembach:   What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Edwina Cowell:    Time. Enough time. 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Edwina Cowell:    Check your ego at the door. 

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Edwina Cowell:    Win, win relationships. 

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Edwina Cowell:    Win, win relationships. 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners, and it could be from any genre, of course we’re going to put a link to Brand versus Wild, on your show notes page as. 

Edwina Cowell:    Mark Lane’s, The Mission Driven Venture. 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going too fastleader.net/EdwinCowell. Okay, Edwina this is my last hump day hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge of skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

Edwina Cowell:    I think I’m repeating it probably for the fourth or fifth time. Win-win relationships. They all need to serve us. We need to serve each other and ourselves at the same time. People need to walk away from any kind of deal, business or any other relationship with a win-win feeling. 

 

Jim Rembach:   Edwina, it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader legion how they can connect with you? 

Edwina Cowell:    You can reach us through www.spiritualplaydate.com or you can email me at edwina@spiritualplaydate.com.

Jim Rembach:  Edwin Cowell, thank for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over a fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

 

END OF AUDIO 

 

 

105: Charles Vogl: I would cry at night from exhaustion and stress

Charles Vogl Show Notes

Charles Vogl served in the US Peace Corps in Northern Zambia. In a place very foreign to him than what he knew in Southern California. Charles lived in a mud hut with a grass roof and a mud floor. And he learned a cherished lesson of how the bravery of others can change people’s lives.

Charles was born and raised in Orange County, California with a younger brother and sister. They spent a lot of time in Honolulu, Hawaii visiting his mother’s family.

A commitment to making a difference has always been a crucial part of Charles’ life. In his early 20s, he volunteered full time at a homeless shelter in Santa Ana, California, before entering the United States Peace Corps and relocating to northern Zambia. There, he witnessed inspirational community in the face of extreme poverty, as those with very little shared with those who had even less.

Charles then moved to New York City to become a filmmaker, producing documentaries including the 2006 documentary film, “New Year Baby,” which chronicled the lives of Cambodian genocide survivors becoming Americans and won numerous honors including Amnesty International’s prestigious “Movies That Matter” award. At the same time, he also volunteered as a secret labor organizer, working to empower abused workers in the restaurant industry.

Charles received his B.S. from the Annenberg School at the University of Southern California and a Master of Divinity at Yale University. A regular guest lecturer at several Yale departments, his first book The Art of Community: Seven Principles for Belonging was recently published by Berrett-Koehler. Building on the concept that community and belonging can be developed through time-tested ideas and rituals, The Art of Community is a guide to creating and fostering meaningful communities that benefit individuals and humanity as a whole.

An author and executive consultant, Charles Vogl helps leaders in technology, finance, media, government, and social good organizations become more effective in creating meaningful change. Using principles drawn from more than 3000 years of community and spiritual tradition, he teaches others how to inspire powerful connections in critical relationships, in order to produce the kind of change that impacts generations.

Charles includes surviving a plane crash, a spitting cobra attack, and acute malaria (all in one year) among his life-changing experiences.

Charles currently lives in Oakland, California, with his wife Socheata.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @charlesvogl to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow Click to Tweet

“Personal networks decreased by two-thirds in the last two generations.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet

“A community is people together that care about the welfare of one another.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“I’m not convinced the thousand people in your social network care about your welfare.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“Who are your 3am friends that you can call and they’ll take action?” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“Who are the people in your life who know that you’re their 3am friend?” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“When we’re vulnerable is often when we most need help.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“When people are vulnerable with us we’re most inspired to offer support.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“It’s hard to support institutions that are not sharing your values.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“There are ancient concepts that we can use to build relationships.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“Typically we come together in communities because of shared values.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“The authentic brands are messaging around values.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“Just saying a group is a community doesn’t make it so.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“To know who is inside your community you have to have some boundaries.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“I don’t really care about the values on your website.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“The stories that people tell help to reveal their real values.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“In healthy communities they’re providing every member a way to grow.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“It’s the relationships with the people I know that really matter.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“Every conversation matters even if it doesn’t look like it’s changing the world while it happens.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“Success in the marketplace involves creating a place where people know they belong.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

“Americans are seemingly desperate to connect more.” -Charles Vogl Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Charles Vogl served in the US Peace Corps in Northern Zambia. In a place very foreign to him than what he knew in Southern California. Charles lived in a mud hut with a grass roof and a mud floor. And he learned a cherished lesson of how the bravery of others can change people’s lives.

Advice for others

Put yourself where the action is happening. Show up where I need to be.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

I’m afraid of reaching out to people that are uninterested in me, making phone calls that people don’t want, of sharing myself in a way that people record me and have evidence of my silliness for years to come. And when I finally get over that I’m not that big a deal and that what I’m out to do is bigger than my ego I’ll definitely be more effective.

Best Leadership Advice Received

To put my body where the action is happening. Emails don’t count. Phone calls don’t count. Letters don’t count. To actually show up where I need to be.

Secret to Success

I remind myself throughout the day to not strive. If my vision is bold enough and my actions are consistent enough success as I’ve defined it will come.

Best tools that helps in Business or Life

Acknowledging the people around me that make a profound difference for me – support me and hold me up. And making sure I’m communicating how important they are to me in my life.

Recommended Reading

The Art of Community: Seven Principles for Belonging

The Trusted Advisor

Contacting Charles

Website: http://www.charlesvogl.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesvogl

Twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesvogl

Resources and Show Mentions

54 Emotional Intelligence (EQ) Competencies List: Emotional Intelligence has proven to be the right kind of intelligence to have if you want to move onward and upward faster. Get your free list today.

 

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

105: Charles Vogl: I would cry at night from exhaustion and stress

 

Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience, break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

Need a powerful and entertaining way to ignite your next conference, retreat or team-building session? My keynote don’t include magic but they do have the power to help your attendees take a leap forward by putting emotional intelligence into their employee engagement, customer engagement and customer centric leadership practices. So bring the infotainment creativity the Fast Leader show to your next event and I’ll help your attendees get over the hump now. Go to beyondmorale.com/speaking to learn more.

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader legion, today I’m excited because the person I have on the show has the opportunity to share with us things that can impact the employee experience, the customer experience and your leadership skills and help you move forward faster. Charles Vogl was born and raised in Orange County, California with a younger brother and sister but spend a lot of time in Honolulu, Hawaii visiting his mother’s family. A commitment to making a difference has always been a crucial part of Charles’s life. In his early 20’s he volunteered full-time at a homeless shelter in Santa Ana, California before entering the United States Peace Corps and relocating to Northern Zambia. There he witnessed inspirational community in the face of extreme poverty as those with very little shared with those who had even less.  Charles then move to New York City to become a filmmaker producing documentaries including the 2006 documentary film New Year Baby which chronicled the lives of Cambodian genocide survivors as they became Americans. It won numerous awards including Amnesty International’s Prestige–Movies That Matter at the same time he also volunteered as a secret labor organizer working to empower abuse workers in the restaurant industry. 

 

Charles received his BS from Annenberg School at the University of Southern California and a Master of Divinity at Yale University. A regular guest lecturer at several Yale departments, his first book the Art of Community Seven Principles for Belonging was recently published by Berrett-Koehler building on the concept that community and belonging can be developed through time-tested ideas and rituals. The art of community is a guide to creating and fostering meaningful communities that benefit individuals and humanity as a whole. An author, an executive consultant, Charles Vogl helps leaders in technology, finance, media, government and social good organizations to become more effective in creating meaningful change.

 

Using principles drawn from more than 3000 years of community and spiritual tradition he teaches others how to inspire powerful connections and critical relationships in order to produce the kind of change that impacts generations. Charles includes surviving a plane crash, a spitting cobra attack and acute malaria all in one year among his life’s challenging experiences. Charles currently lives in Oakland, California with his wife Socheata. Charles Vogl, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Charles Vogl:    I’m the one to be here, let’s take on the hump. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I appreciate it. Now I’ve given our legion a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better.

 

Charles Vogl:    My current passion is helping American who may be living in the most lonely generation in American history possibly create the connection to make life rich. And I’ve been shocked to find out how many of us, you, have felt or seemed lonely and are really unaware how investors sell or create this niche around us that make our life rich and give it meaning. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I had the opportunity to actually see you speak and I found a couple of statistics that you presented to be quite shocking. One of them had to do with—that our personal networks have decreased by a third in the last two generations. Yet when we think about social, social media, social platforms all of that you would not get that perception. How was that such a false perception in regards to social connectivity versus reality?

 

Charles Vogl:    I’m glad you brought that up. It’s important to distinguish people that we can find information about and people who are in our community. And for the purposes of my work, I define community as people together who care about the welfare of one another. And for those of us who have over 1,000 friends in the social networks, I’m not convinced that all thousands of those people care day-to-day about my welfare and certainly I’m not taking time to care about their welfare every day or even every week. And so while there may be people we can connect with but hard to say that they are really in the community. One the short hand that I use in the book just to help us understand who our personal community might be are the people who I call create and friend, the term coined by one of my friend while I was in grad school and he was referring to the friends that we can call at 3 a.m. and we’re confident that they will pick up and that when they pick up they’ll take action if that’s what they needed to do. And so one of the questions I ask the leader they work with is, who are your 3 a.m. friends that you can call? But even more importantly who are the people in your life who know that you’re their 3 a.m. friend? And if in fact they call you at 3 a. m. you’ll be glad that they did and you’ll take action when the phone drop. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Now that’s a very interesting more than just concept that you bring up. I had a discussion with one of my daughters’ friend’s parents and she was talking about something that you were just referring to in regards to church friends and school friends for her daughter. And she was saying how when you think about those conversations that are so intimate and so close to you that most people don’t have those conversations that are young with their school friends they will have them with their church friends. We start talking about the community component we have a situation in our society where less and less people are going to church and kids participating in church. Is that part of what’s contributing to this whole societal shift and having smaller communities and networks?

 

Charles Vogl:    It’s part of it. We know that Americans are leaving churches and synagogues as they did it in 1970, still 8 out of 10 Americans as I understand it, still clinging identification with the institution but they’re not attending as they did a generation ago. And churches and synagogue and other institution around faith are really great place to meet people who share value and then as you mentioned have conversations consistent with that and to build a relationships that allow us to (6:39 inaudible) vulnerabilities. And when we’re vulnerable it’s often mostly we help or want help and there are really vulnerable with us it’s often we’re most inspired to open (6:49 inaudible) so, definitely institutions like churches are one of the reason. But Americans are leaving churches often for a really good reason and what I mean by that is the churches are not representing the values of their generation or their time. And it’s hard to say that someone continued to support institution or (7:09 inaudible) but not sharing their values. What we’re seeing though is we’re not seeing other institution providing a vatable in someone’s life. And it is not important that any institution does that but what we can acknowledge is there was relationship are being formed in that way. And so one of the things that I talk about is there are concepts, ancient concepts that we can use in our life be that in our family, at school, in a patrician or even just among friends such that we can build those relationship using those concepts outside of the same institution that’s creating structure. 

 

Jim Rembach:    I think for me when I had the opportunity to learn more and more about The Art of Community and The Seven Principles for Belonging is that I started seeing connections with work. I started seeing connections with how the marketplace or let’s just say people within our society look to brands for some of that intimacy and closeness and emotional connection that maybe again we didn’t couple of decades ago and now whole customer experience is taking on a whole different meaning than it has in the past. So when you start thinking about being able to leverage what the work that you’ve done, how can that company really do that wherefore their employees and that really affect their culture?

 

Charles Vogl:    Yeah, this is the fascinating area. So for the purposes of my work, I define a community as a group of people who care about one another’s welfare and typically come together in our community because there’s some shared values. We may not all share all of the same value but there are some values that we share. And you can imagine, it’ll be very hard to see people and care about if there is no value. And I think one of the reasons you’re bringing up the brand issue, why people turn to the brand, maybe for some kind of envy or perception they’re part of a bigger is, the business get brand, hopefully authentic brand are really messaging around value. There may be perception that if you meet other people or could just pinning that brand they’re sharing their value. I can’t say how much people who are promoting that brand or buying from that brand are going to help you out in your life when you are in crises but maybe that could be a start a shared value. As far as your workplace goes and one things I tell leaders if you’re going to work with me is that if the community is a group of people who care about one another’s welfare. If you have a team or building a team and you want everyone in that team to care about the success and failures of other people on that team you’re building community if you know or felt. And the way some managers handle that they just declare we’re community and then that’s the end of it and I think we all know that kind of silly. And just saying a group is a community doesn’t make it so. And that’s why I’ve written a book that share some concept like boundary concept and a rain concept and a ritual concept so that if someone who want to get group of people who share some values and make them into a community that really cares about the welfare of one another there’s some leverage they can pull to get there. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Also I think something that stood out to me that was quite interesting especially when you start talking about the workplace and it could even be connected with brands. You started talking about the—everything or nothing conundrum, what is that? 

 

Charles Vogl:    We’ve talked with leaders on building community one of the concepts I see that is really important is to have a boundary. And I say it’s important because if we look at communities over several thousand years that have faced existential threat. So, you see communities in India, obviously the Jewish tribes when we look at communities that are faced existential threat and they’ve been able to stay together often for over a thousand year it’s very clear whose inside and outside so that we know that if someone’s under threat we know when are we going to extend our resources go save that person or not and I often get pushed back they feel boundaries are bad anytime you’re excluding anybody it’s bad. And one of the things that I point out that if you want to build a strong community there’s nothing wrong with that. But if you don’t know who’s in your community it’s very hard to invest in creating stronger relationships within that community because you don’t know who’s on the inside. And to know who’s on the inside there needs to be some kind of boundary. 

 

We can put that around let’s that we go along with the statement that the boundaries are bad and communities should have no boundary. We’ll if I go around the world then I start meeting people and you have no boundary in your community I can’t tell the difference between no community and people in your community because everybody I talk to should be or is in fact in your community and communities are bounded by values. One of the questions I can ask these leaders, is there anybody in the world who doesn’t share the values that someone needs to have to be in your community? Anybody. And the answer is there’s one person, well then there is some boundary even if it’s a very large one. And the way that we prevent ourselves from being jerk to keep people out of our community is once we figure out what are the value to be in our community. 

 

So, in my book I write about a dinner community that we had in Connecticut and graduate school? If someone didn’t value meeting strangers, sharing an uninterrupted meal for four hours sharing about themselves they shouldn’t be in our community. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to spend their evening dancing or karaoke, that’s just not what we do that. So, if we make sure that there’s an access point through the boundary for people who are valued as we are valued, then we can think of the boundary less about keeping people out. People don’t have dinner over long hours with stranger but how do we keep the inside safe and once we know that there’s a boundary there for people to be safe now we can make the decisions consistent with we led in and how we led and how we don’t. And will help the commuter constantly letting people in or inviting in and if that’s how you stay relevant in the world.

 

Jim Rembach:    I think you also shared the word but you also within your book shared a lot about this whole piece associated with values. And I’ve talked with previous guests about our inability to be able to identify our values because we just don’t go through that discovery process, it’s not something that just kind of comes to us as some type of divine or a happenstance or piece of luck, we have to intentionally go through to be able to identify our values so that we can seek out those communities because otherwise we don’t even know where we belong if we find one.

 

Charles Vogl:    Right. 

 

Jim Rembach:    So when you start thinking about that whole values piece, how has that that impacted the ability for people to help and find their own community?

 

Charles Vogl:    Well, I think it’s great that you’re pointing out and it’s not always so clear cut. And what I tell leader is I don’t really care what values are on your website. I was one speaking with the executive director of a fairly famous stone profiteering in United State with a famous brand and he was telling me the values of their organization, not to reveal their organization here, when he was done I asked him, how are those values any different than that of US core, integrity, bravery and he pause over lunch and then said, “I guess there’s no difference of those values. There is nothing wrong with those value and having values that overlap with US Marine Corps but it clearly didn’t actually define what drew people for that nonprofit. Which is to say they hadn’t really figured that out and that means they get to start that journey. One of the things that I look for and figure out what are the real value is not simply what’s on the website. What are the stories that people are telling? One of the question I ask is, who do you protect? And how do you protect them? And to those stories, those are how the real values are revealed. And when we’re seeking out of community my guess is we’re going to be inspired by the communities that tell the stories of their existence, of their purpose, of how they’ve changed that resonate with us. Those stories have inside them the value that we’re seeking to grow in ourselves. One of the most important things about how the communities is they’re providing every member a way to grow in a way that we want to be. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Now finding communities being lonely all of those things are wrapped up in emotions and can be very impactful. One of the one things that we look at on the show are quotes to help bring out emotion for us. Is there a quote or two that kind of stands out that you can share?

 

Charles Vogl:    Oh! My goodness. But one of my favorite quote of (16:35 inaudible) is by a monk named Thomas Merton. And in a letter that he wrote which is now publish, he wrote: “In the end it is the reality of personal relationship that’s say everything.” And the reason I like about that is it reminds me that when big things are happening that scare me, violent, oppression, poverty, and I feel powerless or my work seemed to be ineffective, at the end of the day it’s the relationship with the people that I know and the conversation that I’m having with them that really matter and reminds me that every conversation matter even if it doesn’t look like it’s changing the world while it’s happening. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Now thanks for sharing that. I had the opportunity to watch you speak and read as much of the book as I can since I received it and does having this interview, and you definitely got very personal and vulnerable and a lot of the things were associated with humps that you had to get over throughout your life. Is there a story that you can share with us that really tells us about a time where you got over the hump and it made a difference for you?

 

Charles Vogl:    Oh! My goodness there’s so many. Since we talked about the book I will share—in the book I grind a little bit of how I served in US Peace Corp in northern Zambia. And I’ll tell you I was dropped off in a village in northern Zambia where there are about 150 families. I lived in a mud house with grass roof and a mud floor. And I was speaking a language I didn’t know, food I was unfamiliar with in a place as foreign to me as possible, the bush of northern Zambia from what I knew of southern California. And I was still exhausted and I got really sick and I would cry at night from the exhaustion and the stress a young man kind of in an adventure. And there was a family that live next door to me, the Mwango family and, I remember I think it was the first day, they sent Alex their teenage son over to my home with a fresh Obuasi which is a paste made out of a cassava root and some dried fish cause they wanted to make sure that I was fed that day and how they express in physically showing up and send me gift that I was welcome there. 

 

And they’re a reminder to me, not only the Mwango’s but the whole of the (18:08 inaudible)village, that I get to look like them, act like them they could tell why I didn’t eat like them and yet they went out of their way to welcome me at much as they knew how. And they’re an example to me that we can be brave with our invitation. Now I might have forgot to be totally jerk, I might have forgot with someone who’s trying to take advantage of them, I could have been somebody who is spying on them, the US government probably knew, and they might have discovered those things but maybe ** but nonetheless, they were brave with their invitation and their bravery changed my life. And now I’ve written a book about community and as you said in my introduction, witnessing how the book cared for one another in northern Zambia with no health care, hauling water from the river a kilometer away changed my life. 

 

And it really was very touching when you started talking about and there’s a lot more detail associated even with the Peace Corps members that you are with and how all that community did or didn’t happen and I definitely recommend people picking up the book. But if you were to say of all the things that you have going, and I know being on the book tour and doing a lot of speaking engagements, continuing your work, what are some of your goals?

 

Right now one of the goals that we have is to reach out to both faith leaders across country that are really working to find a way to make faith institutions in their country speak to a generation right now is not (20:39 inaudible) battle. And I think we can acknowledge they’re not excited about it because it’s not exciting to them. To find a way to generally make an institution where American’s believe they belong when their own faith experiences and longing are consistent with coming together. Like doing in a place that shares their value, inconcinnity and participation. 

And one of our other goals is to reach out the C level executive, the company’s across the country, and understand that their success in the marketplace and customers and their success in building team for the company to work involved creating a place where people know they belong. And they know they belong there because there are values there that are represented in our importance for belonging. And they can use the contents in the book that have been used for used for well over a thousand years, the ritualism that says in a way the storytelling and create that place. And since we know that Americans are, as you read in the book, seemingly desperate to connect more. To have that community that they know they can turn to, to train here to build that not just make himself up willy-nilly or an ivory but turning to long standing reason to do that is a very exciting adventure form.

 

Jim Rembach:    And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. 

 

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Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion, it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Charles the Charles Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Charles Vogl, are you ready to hoedown?

 

Charles Vogl:    I’m ready to hoedown. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Charles Vogl:    Oh, my goodness, I’m afraid of thing, I’m afraid of reaching out to people who are ** me, I’m afraid of making phone call ** I’m afraid of sharing myself in a way that people laugh at me and then record it digitally and we’ll be there for my showing that for years…. And when I finally get over that I’m not big deal and that what I’m about to do are bigger than my ego, I’ll definitely ** 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Charles Vogl:    To put my body where the action is happening. Email don’t count, phone calls don’t count, letters don’t count, to actually show up where I need to be making a difference and I’m looking at it. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Charles Vogl:    I think one of the secret of my success right now is I remind myself throughout the day and during my quiet time every morning and meditation and prayer to not strive. That if my vision is bold enough, if my actions are consistent enough success will come but I don’t need to worry about that success I was going to take the action consistent for ** a different ** in the world. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What do you feel is one of you tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Charles Vogl:    One of the most important tools I have is acknowledging the people around me by that making profound for me it’s important to hold me up and making sure that that I’m communicating how important they are to my life. Not as some threat but as a person who’s aware that nothing I do is for my own success alone but because of the community work. 

 

Jim Rembach:    What would be one book, and it could be from any genre, that you recommend to our listeners? And of course we’re going to put a link to The Art of Community on your show notes page.

 

Charles Vogl:    One of my favorite books is a Trusted Advisor by Maister. Because in all relationships, if they’re powerful relationship there will be a time where if we’re good friend we’ll say something someone doesn’t what to keep. And that book gave me tool that I needed that when I have that conversation I could be more effective in telling someone I care about something they may not be ready to hear from someone. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Okay, Fast Leader Legion, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going too fastleader.net/Charles Vogl. Okay, Charles this is my las hump day hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to back to the age of 25. And you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. So, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

 

Charles Vogl:    I think I would tell myself that the title don’t matter. Their vision counts and inviting other people to join that sounds way more than the title, accolade or word that they’re looking for when they’re 25.

 

Jim Rembach:    Charles it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you? 

 

Charles Vogl:    Yeah. There’s my website, charlesvogl.com and on that website we have a quiz that leader can take to get a sense of how much they’re aware of the tools to build community whatever community they’re leading and there’s a preview of the book, several chapters available for free to download right away. 

 

Jim Rembach:    Charles Vogl, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and  thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links, from every show, special offers, and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

 

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