146: Steven Stein: I can fade out a bit

146: Steven Stein: I can fade out a bit

Intro:  Welcome to the Fast Leader podcast where we explore convenient yet effective shortcuts that will help you get ahead and move forward faster by becoming a better leader. And now here’s your host customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

The number one thing that contributes to customer loyalty is emotions. So move onward and upward faster by gaining significantly deeper insight and understanding of your customer journey and personas with emotional intelligence. With your empathy mapping workshop you’ll learn how to evoke and influence the right customer emotions that generate improve customer loyalty and reduce your cost to operate. Get over your emotional hump now by going to empathymapping.com to learn more. 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader Legion, today I’m so excited because I actually have one of my mentors on the show today and believe it or not he wasn’t even aware of it. Steven Stein was born and raised in Toronto, Canada. Steven grew up in a middle-class intact family with his older brother Howard. Growing up Stephen’s father was the owner of a local bar where he had to manage all kinds of characters large and small, drunk and sober. Steven was always impressed by his father, a short bald guy, was able using words to manage the most unruly of characters. He treated everyone fairly and people seemed to appreciate that many difficult situations were diffused, this piqued Steven’s interest in psychology. This experience along with watching the Bob Newhart show led him to a career in psychology. Stephen started out as a regular clinical psychologist working with difficult adolescents in a major mental health center but he found that many of the tough kids he dealt with didn’t like being psychologically tested as part of their treatment. Around that time two other STI’s in California invented something called the micro-computer at a place called Apple. Dr. Steve wanted to see if putting the psyche tests on one of these new computers would make a difference and it did and the rest is history. 

Dr. Steve decided to set up a company and publish psych tests on a computer and in the old-fashioned way. The tools his company has developed has helped millions of kids and adults get proper treatment for ADHD, autism and other child disorders. This company has helped hundreds of thousands of offenders get appropriate levels of service in the justice system. His workplace tools such as the emotional quotient inventory 2.0 has helped millions of people at work improved their performance, learn about their strengths and weaknesses and become better leaders. He is the author of five books including his latest being the, EQ leader. Dr. Stein currently lives with wife Rodeen in Toronto, Canada and he has two daughters and two wonderful grandchildren. Dr. Stephen Stein, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Dr. Steven Stein:    I’m ready to help you get over the hump Jim.

Jim Rembach:   I’m glad you’re here. I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Dr. Steven Stein:    Well one of my current passions as you probably know is the whole leadership enterprise. For the last couple of years I’ve really been focused on trying to understand leadership, what makes a good leader, what makes a bad leader and what’s the problem in the world today that we can’t get the kinds of leaders that we want. 

Jim Rembach:   I think you bring up a really good point, why can’t we get this. One of the reasons, I’ve shared this on other episodes that I myself became certified in emotional intelligence through your company, MHS, and it is because of the wealth of empirical evidence associated into the things that help people to become more emotionally intelligent and then therefore become a better leader. The data is all over the place and it’s pretty concrete we shouldn’t even be debating this anymore as far as what helps people to become a better leader but yet we struggled like crazy. Why is that? 

Dr. Steven Stein:    It’s hard to understand I guess some people misequate leadership they think it’s power or they think it’s prestige. All kind of narcissistic reasons behind why they want to become leaders and unfortunately there are enough people who get sucked in by that and follow those people or at least get those people into positions of power. Then we look around us and say, oh my god what happened?

Jim Rembach:   When we start thinking about the societal influences and when we start thinking about the pressures and the things that we know about how all of that can actually impact our IQ when we’re trying to focus on something or we’re under great pressure our IQ drops. Well, we know our EQ is probably going to drop along with it if we don’t have the right behaviors and practices in place. One thing I do like about your tool is that, hey I can at least identify where I have opportunities to get better and learn more. But still doesn’t it come down to practicing?

Dr. Steven Stein:    Absolutely. You’re quite right the first step is really understanding. We often go into training or different kinds of development programs just starting from anywhere but the fact is we all have a certain amount of each of these variables or factors that we measured emotional intelligence. We have to start off by being self-aware we have to know what our own strengths and weaknesses are once we come to that we have a good understanding of where we stand then you’re absolutely right it’s all about practicing. It’s not the kind of thing you just read a book or get a lecture in school about you’ve got to go out and do you got to behave you got to try empathizing you got to try developing your interpersonal skills you got to be out in the real world doing these things.

Jim Rembach:   I think that’s a good point. There was, I guess, a roundtable discussion and I was part of a group and people started talking about the things that they were doing in order to make themselves more aware and try to be more mindful but when I started hearing about all these things for me it’s like, okay, every single thing that people were talking about was really at arm’s length. Okay, I watch videos, I read books but to me it really has to be experiential I have to touch it, I have to smell it and I have to really be next to it instead of seeing it from far away. 

Dr. Steven Stein:    Absolutely, it’s all about that direct experience. When we were kids that’s all we knew, right? When we would play sports, where I came from we played hockey and maybe baseball and when we had an altercation or some kind of issue we had to get out there and sort it out person to person in front of each other and that’s how we learn how to deal with people and manage other people, that doesn’t happen as much today with kids. 

Jim Rembach:   That’s a really good point. For me growing up in south side Chicago the way that we often settle things at that young age because we couldn’t necessarily communicate effectively was with our

Fists and today it’s like, no they’re not allowed to fight.  But I think for me I know many, many times where I would get into an altercation I’d get my nose bloodied or my lips split or I’d do it to somebody else and the next day we’re out having a great time together.

Dr. Steven Stein:    And you knew it was something you didn’t want to do again. Once you experience that you say, well wait a minute, are there ways we can avoid this? Or are there alternative we can get along? And it’s a learning experience. 

Jim Rembach:   When I started looking at the book, your latest book, EQ Leader, for me of course, I’m aware of the 15 components associated with the EQI 2.0 model, I think you were kind of really trying to make that that jump to the next level as far as applying it. And you talked about four pillars of VI that people really need to cultivate and try to improve, what are those?

Dr. Steven Stein:    So the four pillars we learn from, and it’s basically research-based, looking at thousands of leaders around the world, so this is pretty international work that we’ve done, so the four pillars the first one we call authenticity which means you have to be believable, you have to be honest, you have to be truthful. If people see through you if they think you’re faking it or putting them on you’re not going to be an effective leader you’re eliminated right off the bat. The second thing we found that differentiated the really high-performing leaders was their ability to coach to help others. They really want other people who work with them to succeed they’re not out to show that they’re powerful or important they’re there to help others and they see that everyone’s success is part of their success. So, the ability to coach making sure people have what they need in terms of the physical skills and the other skills. The third area we call, insight.  Insight is really the ability to have establish a purpose, like why are we here? Why are we doing the work that we’re doing? And your ability to communicate that purpose in a meaningful way so that everybody gets on board and everybody knows what we stand for and in some way we’re bettering the world. The fourth and final one that differentiated the really high-performing leaders was innovation. You have to be willing to take risks you, you have to be willing to try new things to sort of get out of the box. Those leaders were the ones who are outstanding in terms of their ability to perform and engage people who work with them.

Jim Rembach:   When I start looking at these four pillars I started thinking about having individuals as part of an organization and creating a more emotionally intelligent organization because it can’t just be about me, even if I’m the only one working on it everybody has to do this in concert with one another otherwise we’re not making any beautiful music if you want to say it that way. 

Dr. Steven Stein:    Absolutely, good example. 

Jim Rembach:   Then when I also start thinking about the rapid pace of change and the way things are just flipping over so quickly and the risks associated with that, how much more has emotional intelligence become important to an organization than it was say 15 20 years ago when things weren’t changing as quickly?

Dr. Steven Stein:    It’s extremely important because we have to connect at a quicker pace as well and have to evaluate—are you with me or you’re not going to be with me? We have to have that ability to connect with people, evaluate those people and decide what your next step is and use to have more time to do that because I knew you were going to stay with the company for x amount of time and I have a lot of time to decide whether you’re going to make it or not but that isn’t the way it works. 

Jim Rembach:   For you when you mentioned something about the international type of a view of this and potentially impact and effect that it can have but oftentimes we do hear a little bit about cultures and the way that they may take risks where it’s important for them to see and have the understanding of what others are doing before they actually take a particular initiative. How are the variances actually playing out from a global perspective more so than just within my own area say, North America?

Dr. Steven Stein:    This is a fair bit of global variability in some of these factors, risk taking is one that’s really interesting for example. When I was in China people really resonate into that they’re now getting to the point where they’re being more explorative willing to take risks and try new things. When I was in Dubai and Qatar it was the total opposite people said to me, wait a minute don’t talk to us about risk in trying we don’t believe in trying new things we wait for other people to try it and we wait until they fail. Not as much in Dubai is much more risk-taking than Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for example where they were pretty averse to taking risks and trying anything different or new in the audience that I met with there. But you do see this variation around the world and one of the things we documented in the book is some of these cultural variations on some of these factors around the world to be aware of them really helps you work in those cultures.

Jim Rembach:   Okay, we talked about a difference between awareness and practical application. If I’m someone, let’s just say from North America, how am I going to be a more effective leader in a global organization? This is more important than it ever has been before especially the people that I hang around with who are in customer care and customer experience and they’re looking at that from a global perspective and I need to get everybody as part of the organization to help become more customer centric. What are some of the things that I need to do differently more so than just be aware of?

Dr. Steven Stein:    Okay, so one of the things—well, we have to start with awareness. One of the things you have to be aware of is that there are certain things that are consistent throughout its cultures and there are certain things that are culturally specific. There are three things in organizations that traverse the world that that every organization has to have. First one is decision making. We have to make a decision and we have to carry it out doesn’t matter what culture you’re from that’s part of the organization. The second one has to do with interpersonal skills. You’ve got to be with me you got to be on my side whether you’re in China, South America or everywhere we’re not together it’s not going to work. The third one is a level of motivation—that we really want to get this done we want to succeed. Those three things, those three factors are universal in every country we’ve looked at what varies is the way in which you carry that out. Let’s say you and I want to get something done, we have to get whatever it is—it’s to serve the customer we have to be whatever. How are going to do that? One of your boss I could be assertive with you. How assertive? If I’m going to be. If I’m from Mexico, I’m going to be really assertive I’m going to yell at you really get you to do it. If I’m from Malaysia, I’m not going to be quite as brash about it I’ve going to be moderate how I’m going to get you to do this.  I’m going to be nice to you first sort of work up with you and then get you to carry out the behaviors. So what we’ve documented is while the prime factors are pretty basic across the world the way in which you carry them out differs. Assertiveness differs country by country and we’ve documented the level of some assertiveness among business people in countries around the world. Being sensitive to that helps you tune like you mentioned, an orchestra before, helps you tune the way that you will get things done within that organization.

Jim Rembach:   That’s priceless information right there. One of the things that I always talk to people about that are trying to affect and impact change whether it’s up or down or sideways in the organization is I tell them and said, you know what you need to actually start putting together a dossier on individuals and knowing how you need to go about do those things in order to get things done. Some people I can be more assertive with then I can push others I can’t do that with you have to be the adaptive one and not expect them the ones to adapt to you.

Dr. Steven Stein:    Right. There are organizations I visited, one very large organization in Mexico for example, where they actually had the person’s EQI profile their three strengths and three challenges on their personnel file so when they work with that person did their performance reviews exactly what you’re saying they knew how to approach that individual and they knew the areas they were working on the challenges they had whether it was being more self-aware know how you are when you affect other people whether they’re not being assertive enough, whatever it was they were able to relate on that level with each employee.

Jim Rembach:   That’s priceless. Another thing that’s priceless especially on the Fast Leaders show is some of the quotes that some of our guests bring to the table because they help point us in the right direction and made me help us a little bit more mindful and give us more energy. I know with your wealth and experience you probably have literally thousands that you’ve come across. Is there one or two that kind of stands out for you that you can share? 

Dr. Steven Stein:    What are two quotes? Boy, I haven’t think of that. There’s the, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The main things I believe in business is fairness. You get back what you give and I think that’s kind of an important aspect of it. As leaders, many leaders wonder why people aren’t engaged. Or why this doesn’t happen? Or things aren’t happening the way they want to? Well, you got to look at yourself you’ve got to be inward bound and looking at how you are approaching the people around you to me that’s a big important aspect of leadership and something you can maybe quote on a leadership. You get what you give in terms of your ability to reach others.

Jim Rembach:   That’s one of the things I share with my kids all the time especially when they’re being nasty, I’m like, do you want to be loved and feel it? Then quit being nasty because you got to give love to get it. Okay, when I start thinking about what you’ve been able to do with MHS and I started thinking about having to get over a whole lot of different humps as well as—just from a personal perspective we have to go over them too, but they kind of help us be where we are today because now they teach us a lot. Is there a story that you can share when you’ve had to get over the hump? 

Dr. Steven Stein:    We had over many humps. MHS I guess 36 years old at this point. And we started in our basement, my wife and I, doing this kind of as a hobby but we set it up as a company. And it continue to grow and the kind of humps you get some of the usual humps in terms of financing, finding customers and skill but I think one of the humps as evolve and we’ve evolved, and we now employ 170 people I’m told by my HR people, so we’ve evolved pretty good, we have offices in Europe and the US and Canada we’ve expanded a lot but to evolve is to understand where you are as a leader and what your role is as a leader. Many entrepreneurs people who start companies have a difficult time letting go they like to control they like to be in charge of everything and I find that it’s hard to grow or be successful if you’re that kind of a leader. What was important for me as a leader is to learn how to let go of certain areas and to learn how to generally hire people who are smarter than me to do things. If you’ve met some of my senior staff you’d know exactly what I’m talking about. I said this—we’re in a meeting of CEO’s one of the CEO groups that I had some of my senior people there and I did an introduction or whatever but then had them present and by the end of it all these CEO’s came up to me says, yeah I see what you mean you got some really smart people working for you. I said, that’s right and I can kind of fade out a bit. So that’s kind of one of the big humps in terms of making a business grow and making it successful—to really get the right people in the right place at the right time and nurture those people.

Jim Rembach:   Well, I know when I started thinking about emotional intelligence and I’ve been carrying this banner for a couple years now and actually when I stop and think about it I was carrying it a lot longer just didn’t have the certification of MHS behind me and so I still talking about what we were talking about a moment ago—yes, there’s a lot of work to do, yes we keep wanting better leaders and there’s a huge opportunity there but when I start thinking about all the goals and all the things that you have on your plate along with that one, what’s one of them?

Dr. Steven Stein:    One of my big goal is to see emotional intelligence integrated in so many areas of our life. Lately I’ve been doing a lot of work in the area of entertainment and I’m about to do some work in the sports world so those are two areas that I personally want to get involved in use of emotional intelligence. But I also want to see it in the mainstream areas that we started with which is in the corporate world, leadership, all those kinds of things. You have a lot of people working in those areas right now and for me I’m having a lot of fun in sports and entertainment. 

Jim Rembach:   And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. 

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Jim Rembach:   Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion, it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Steven, the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So, I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster, Dr. Steven Stein are you ready to hoedown?

Dr. Steven Stein:    I’m ready to hoedown.

Jim Rembach:   Alright. What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today? 

Dr. Steven Stein:    I’m being held back because I don’t have enough time to do all the things I want to do. 

Jim Rembach:   What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Dr. Steven Stein:    Best leadership advice I’ve received is to listen, listen and then listen some more.

Jim Rembach:   What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Dr. Steven Stein:  I’ve learned to be patient and to listen to other people and to use the information that I believe.   

Jim Rembach:   What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Dr. Steven Stein:    Oh, my—again to listen to other people and feedback what I think makes sense in terms of what I’ve learned in my experience to them. 

Jim Rembach:   What would be one book that you’d recommend to our listeners, it could be from any genre, and of course we’ll put a link on your show notes page to the EQ Leader 

Dr. Steven Stein:    Other than the EQ edge one of the books I have always loved was, From Good to Great by Jim Collins. 

Jim Rembach:   Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Steven Stein. Okay, Dr. Stein, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Dr. Steven Stein:    Well, the skill—if emotional intelligence is one skill excellent I would take but that’s multiple skills and I had to pick from those skills, which one would I take? That is such a hard question, probably the self-awareness one to really understand myself and what my needs are what my strengths and weaknesses are if I understood that when I was25 I probably would have developed a lot more quickly in the areas that I needed to develop. 

Jim Rembach:   Dr. Stein, it was an honor to spend time with you today can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Dr. Steven Stein:    Sure absolutely Jim, it’s been great to be with you, they could find me at drstevenstein.com or at the mhs.com website. 

Jim Rembach:   Dr. Steven Stein thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. 

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

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