123: Ilene Marcus: I had to cross a picket line

123: Ilene Marcus: I had to cross a picket line

 Intro: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast, where we uncover the leadership like hat that help you to experience, break out performance faster and rocket to success. And now here’s your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner, Jim Rembach.

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Jim Rembach:     Okay, Fast Leader Legion, today I’m excited because we’re going to have a guest on the show today who really can help us with something I think we all deal with. Eileen Marcus was born and raised in Farmingdale, Long Island original suburbia no farms on one side of the track where she grew up. She was the second of four daughters. Her father was a civil engineer and her mother was a teacher. Eileen had three sisters but she was always in charge, bless their hearts. She had quite a history and if someone told her their background she would say you’re a walking miracle, but Eileen herself has been through some tough times. She’s been a rare cancer survivor, had an early joint replacement, was a nine eleven evacuee, survived abuse, betrayal, and has been a single mom with economic hardship all have brought her to where she is today.

She’s proud that she reform the New York City welfare system. She built a cadre of much better authentic managers who built their teams and the business by having the hard conversations and taking the next step. Eileen is always in the camp of the underdog. She wanted her career, her life, her purpose to be about not just helping one person but helping many. She’s followed the proverbial path of helping people learn to fish to eat for a long lifetime instead of just feeding them fish. Besides her experiences in government she’s had experience in non-profit, health care, start-ups and product driven small businesses. Currently Eileen is the owner of a line workplace. She specializes in organizational dynamics consulting to build efficiency, nobleness, and teamwork. She’s a city girl with country heart. She splits time between New York City in the Berkshires. Looking for that perfect combo of mountain, town, and cows, she’s now thinking Seattle or Hilo, Hawaii. Eileen Marcus, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Ilene Marcus: I am ready to get over the hump.

Jim Rembach:  I’m glad you’re here. We’ve had some great off mic conversation so I’m really looking forward to our interview today. Now, I’ve given our listeners a little bit about you but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better.

Ilene Marcus:   My current passion is workplace conundrums. I love hearing people’s problems, what they’re fighting at work, what’s getting in their way and finding a solution to get through it.

Jim Rembach:    Now we had the opportunity to talk about something that we all had issues with and that you can help us with and it really comes from you being the author of Managing Annoying People—Seven Proven Tactics to Maximize Team Performance and the reality is when I think about through my career of managing all kinds of different personalities I’ve had some very annoying people that I’ve had to manage and reality is I’ve probably been that person too sometimes. I always tell my kids when they’re doing something about sports or whatever and they’re being that whiner, I’m like, “Don’t be that guy. Don’t be that guy, everybody says the whiner. So, for me I don’t want to be that guy that was the annoying one but we are.

Ilene Marcus:  Yes we are and I’m glad you see that.

Jim Rembach:     But there was one tactic in here of the seven, and I’m not going to read then all, and that’s why everybody needs to buy the book. And again it’s Managing Annoying People, we have a link to them on our show notes page, but it’s tactic number which is Set no fear boundaries, what does that mean? 

Ilene Marcus: It means that you have to know the line. As the leader, you have to actually separate yourself from the pack. It’s your job to have the full ten thousand foot view of the organization as well as each individual for lack of a better word cog-in-the wheel. No one else has that perspective, so you’ve got to be very vigilant about setting those boundaries. Sometimes I’d like to think about it from dirty dancing this is my dance space this is your day in space don’t cross the line where there will be repercussions.

Jim Rembach:     A lot of times people talk about creating emotional connections and having empathy and being authentic with your leadership and I think sometimes it you could actually take it too far. And so to me when I started reading more about what you mean by “set no fear boundaries” I started thinking about those in total context. 

Ilene Marcus:  I know exactly what you’re talking about. I think I have a mantra that goes with almost every tactic I say which is, Say what you mean, mean what you say but don’t say it mean like. It’s not about don’t ever come to my office after five or don’t do this or don’t do that it’s about this is my role this is your role let me be clear about when I have time to you I can’t see you or we can or cannot have a discussion at this point that is what sets the boundaries.

Jim Rembach:     For me when you said, and thanks that you did, is that we’re really talking about expectations setting.

Ilene Marcus:  Absolutely.

Jim Rembach:     And being proactive with it not waiting to—it’s too late just try to go back and recover and recoup and then set a particular boundary.

Ilene Marcus:  That is one of my prime messages, avoiding an annoying situation is perilous to you and your organization, you must be proactive. I can, with one hundred percent certainty right now, tell you someone is going to annoy you at work, this week, this month, this year, it’s going to happen. So the question is how can I as the leader be ready and not react. So if I set up the rules, the relationships, the boundaries, the expectation of the relationship, I’m going to have a much better shot at handling the annoyance and minimizing the time it trains for my business goals.

Jim Rembach:     Now also you had talked about, and it came at the very end it really wasn’t part of the seven tactics although I think the seven tactics will definitely aid and assist with that, but we have annoying customers that we have to deal with as well. And again hopefully I’m not that guy, I’m trying to be the guy but I know I am sometimes, but I how do the seven tactics actually par les and benefit that whole customer experience piece?

Ilene Marcus:  Well, we always say that the customer is always right. If you forget rule number one look at rule number two the customer is always right, but there’s a cartoon at the front of each my chapters in on the customer cartoon it says, “The customer is always right” and underneath in small letters it says on the verge of making me lose my mind. Now it’s a double edged sword we need our customers, in some organizations they’re are funders, so they’re board members, setting expectations and setting boundaries is really important. I can think of so many expectations where I had employees that were doing what I call the pretzel, twisting themselves into a left handed person that would be on the this fifth day of this time to meet a customer’s expectation, that’s not okay. 

Even with customers we need to say, “I want to please you. We need to be in constant communication but there are boundaries that need to be set.” There’s an old rule, right? And we all know it. The more I twist myself into a pretzel, what happens? You know what happens, right? The more I twist myself into a pretzel and I can’t move. So, with customers not as articulate in answers I would like to be straightforward is we must respect that we need them but at the same time slowly and surely set those boundaries, those expectations. And people actually enjoy hearing no sometimes they’re not happy about it but they’d rather hear no than I’ll get back to you, I’ll see you or let me try. No, that’s not going to work let’s see what else we can come up with, always a good solution.

Jim Rembach:     I think that’s really interesting point too. How you go about saying that no and be different for the different types of products and services that you offer for different clientele that you’re serving? And so maybe for you the no is giving them alternative options that you can deliver upon.

Ilene Marcus:   Always. One of my mantras there are always options, always options. You should never be put in a box. If the no is about, what do you really trying to do? It should open up a whole conversation with your customer about, what are you trying to achieve? Because let me see if I have a different product or a different solution or we can brainstorm together. As a a business, I want to bring more value to my customers. If I can actually, really understand what they’re trying to get that I can help them better and they’re going to see me more as a resource. So, it’s once again changing that relationship dynamic from—you’re the customer, you’re buying from me, what can I give you? And how can I serve you? And what else are you looking for? And why do you want that? And how can I help you get that from me?

Jim Rembach:     I think that’s really important because what you’ve just done is talking about the opportunity to open up the door to collaboration with your client and your customer. And when they are absolutely part of their own solution they’re going to enjoy that experience more than if you were the one that was doing it on their behalf.

Ilene Marcus:   A hundred percent and that’s what builds a good business.

Jim Rembach:     So the pride of ownership, and this is one of things I could talk about a lot with folks, when I went through university or college I double majored in Finance and real estate, a lot of people I had the opportunity when they’re Finance majors that they could double their major in finance and insurance, but I don’t do that and I don’t want to go down the insurance route. I thought near real estate and maybe someday having some properties which I’m still working on something I can do. One of the One of the key concepts that I carried away from my real estate learning was just this pride of ownership concept. When we start talking about going down a street and looking at the different properties we can actually just look at them and know which one’s a rental property because it’s just not kept up as nicely.

Ilene Marcus:  Absolutely. And you know that is a theory in terms of all kind of community norms like broken windows theory. If you let a small thing happened it changes and lead to gateway to a bigger thing. So, pride of ownership and being involved in your work, in your home, in your community is very important to success. 

Jim Rembach:      That pride of ownership, how could you actually use that in order to be able to have somebody that’s working for you that is annoying become less annoying?

Ilene Marcus:  This is one of the things that I coach on continuously and it is the concept that as the leader you have an idea how do you help your employees make that idea their idea not your idea? How do you give them the tools, the resources, the direction, the rules, the boundaries to say, “Okay, I know we want to sell more, whatever we’re selling, widgets. I know this is the goal that we want to be in this market. How can I make that happen? What’s my role? It’s also pride of ownership to work with your employees and then that turns around to pride in ownership with your customers. If the employees feel that they’re part of the solution it’s their value, their goal, their mission, they’re going to be a lot more brought in and the customers feel that right away.

Jim Rembach:      Definitely. And when we’re talking about all of this ownership and annoyance and all of those things there’s a lot of passion and emotion that’s tied up in that. On the show we look at quotes in order to help us focus our attention and emotions in the right direction. Is there a quote that you can share the does it for you.

Ilene Marcus:  Perfect timing. My quote is, Leadership is a righteous perk once you get management right. And what I mean by that is, if you don’t give your staff the tools, resources, direction and rules to get done what they need to do, you have no right being a leader. You must meet the minimum requirements and that works every time. Leadership is a righteous perk once you get management right.

Jim Rembach:      You bring up some really interesting points because a lot of people talk about what is the difference between management and leadership. And I think a lot of folks think that leadership is all about the inspiration, the softer stuff which I contend is actually hard stuff as well because it does has financial impacts, you just describe to me what is actually a blend.

Ilene Marcus:   I think that good managers are leaders and good leaders are managers. There is a lot of dialogue and I have managed lot of people who have been through John Maxwell course or certain course and say, I’m a leader now. And while those courses are excellent that doesn’t make you a leader because you’ve read some case studies on inspiration. What makes you a leader is working with a team, having a vision, and having them own that vision so they do it beyond what you tell them to. That’s really what a leader wants.

Jim Rembach:      I think you bring up a good point. For me, as someone who’s a little more analytical minded, it’s more about practical application and not theory.

Ilene Marcus:  I think it is. I think it is. In this business world although there is a lot now writing on thought leadership even thought leaders have to back up what they’re saying with practical applications. How do you put that into action? Whether it’s mindfulness or intent everything is about the integration between my visions, and how do I put the pedal to the metal.

Jim Rembach:      Well and that’s always had been the knockabout book doctors, faculty and staff and teachers and all of that is that, “Hey, all you’re doing is teaching theory, have you actually been in the trenches and had your sleeves rolled up? Have you applied what you’re talking about? And that’s always been the knock when it comes from the world of academia converting to the business world.

Ilene Marcus:  Right. And I think now there are so many people like me that had been in the business world and then trying to apply what we have. But even a lot of us, not me of course, but a lot of us are divorced from that. I’m going to get ahead to one of your questions but one of your questions is, what do you feel is one of your best secrets to your success? And for me it’s I am always relevant in the trenches. I don’t use that word trenches lightly I came from the trenches my first job was putting the curved in a mascara brush on an assembly line, I worked in a factory, but that is really important. Where ever I go, and I enter now it’s a 

C-suite exec or a consultant, I am able to always connect with everyone—the custodian, the security guards anyone and that makes a really big difference. When you have your finger in the pulse and you really know how the rules and that guidance set up on C-Suite is trickling down that’s what really makes an organization work.

Jim Rembach:      Without a doubt. So, what you just talked about from an emotional intelligence company’s perspective which is called relatedness, can you relate? 

Ilene Marcus:  Yes, so important.

Jim Rembach:      Very much so. I think you had mentioned something about your background experiences and things like that and going from the frontline and curving those brushes all the way to helping to do some reform with the 

New City social welfare system. You’ve had a lot of experiences along the way and within those experiences there’s a lot of humps. Is there a time where you can share a story when you had to get over the hump and what it meant for you? 

Ilene Marcus:  Yeah, a big hump. I had to cross a picket line for the first time. That is a tough situation. I was a manager in a large bureaucracy, had ten thousand people working for me, it was under the Giuliani administration it was probably about four years or right before—maybe three and a half years. We had been working with the union very closely, that’s where I learned the lesson, I can ask them to produce something if they don’t have the tools I can tell them leadership. Well, this is what we need to do, we’re reforming the city but if I didn’t, I use the example give them push button phones because they all still have rotary phones, how can I ever expect them to make the number of calls or to do their jobs with rotary phones. As there often is with big unions there was a strike about the cost of living COLA increase, and I had to cross the picket line I still remember my daughter was about one year old and I remember like I did not want to leave that morning I don’t care what that she was making I did not want to leave my house it was a snow storm it was a cold day and I went downtown and I was threading this I knew it was one of those moments in my life I had never crossed picket line before, I was a very new manager had been for four  years. I didn’t know what to do and I just kept on walking, you know they say pray with your feet, so the whole way there I’m like, inspire me, what should I do. I called city hall they gave me some advice. But what’s interesting is when I walked in front of the building and I saw the picket line I knew exactly what to do. I stopped. I say good morning, I said hello, I’m sorry were in this confrontation, I hope you guys get what you want, you deserve but we still have things to do here and if it gets really cold let me know and I’ll send you down some coffee. And I hope you all have a nice day. Said hello, and all that and walked upstairs. What a sigh of relief, right? It comes from that value of treat people the way you want to be treated. Don’t be hard, walk by really say, “Hey, Whatever our beef is we can be nice to each other.” That was a huge aha but it also reminded me that I have a contract with my employees, I provide them money to do a job and that’s the basis of our relationship, I need the job done. It’s not just about being friends or getting along and being nice. If you’re not performing the job we have a bees about that we need to deal with that but as the boss it’s an economic contract that I expect you to do the job in terms for the money I pay you. Now if I can, Jim, can I tell you one other story?

Jim Rembach:      Please do.

Ilene Marcus:  This happened about, I want to say ten years ago. I in my work did a lot of big leadership events, always community recognition. And we’re always in rooms filled with the mayor and the governor and the speaker and the top philanthropists and always these very important settings. We were at a meeting, it was in the Lower East Side Manhattan one of our oldest districts some the most important elected officials, and they were honoring an older man who had created a community based organization must have been 500 hundred people in the audience. And there are a lot of speeches and then this older man was given an award for his foresight and said it’s establishing this community council thirty years ago. And as he was getting off the stage there were some steps. And I could see he was struggling. There were five hundred people in that audience there were about at least a hundred of us in the front tables, assemblyman, senators, important people, I just got up and walked up the steps helped him walk down. And afterwards everyone said to me how did you know to do that? And I said, “It was intuitive I was paying attention.” No one else in the audience moved to help that person. And I just think that that’s a really important story about remembering who you are and why you got into this. I got into this to help individuals. I got into this to help people be independent and proud. And no matter how important you get no matter who you’re sitting next to, the governor, the mayor, the assembly speaker, it is about the individuals and making sure that you come with your joy and who you are in everything you do. 

Jim Rembach:      I love you sharing that and I think that’s a really important message for us to be able to carry forward and have that resilience and always bring that joy. It’s hard to do nice especially when we have a lot of pressures both inside and outside but bring your joy.

Ilene Marcus:  You have to, you have to. It’s just—most of us have careers that have blended our work in our lives so our personal lives are a big part of our professional life and our professional life is a big part of our work life. And if you don’t bring the joy what do are you doing?  If you’re not loving who you are and how you do it do something else I always say. 

Jim Rembach:      So, when you start thinking about a lot of the things—like we’ve chatted off mic about some of the things that you’re working on and the different ways that you work with organizations—of course you have this book and you talked about doing speaking, coaching and a lot of different things. But when you think about all of that, what’s one of your goals? 

Ilene Marcus:  One of my goals is to really build middle management levels. They are always under resource and under trained. I really want to be the go to girl, go to person for workplace conundrums. I have a problem—the dear Abby of the workplace for our generation, that’s what I’m really working towards. I think that it’s gotten very complicated with cell phones, and social media, and websites, webinars and everything we can do. And I think there are certain places that people have that question for HR or can ask you about THERA, they’re in a professional association but I think that what I’ve learned and why I wrote the book was it’s not the—once your employees are moral, ethical, and competent you’re talking about managing them out, it’s really about the soft relationship issues, like you said, that are really hard as a leader it’s not always clear cut. That’s why I wrote the book because it’s not those things that are in your face, your budget crisis, your CFO is stealing, your team isn’t producing, it’s always the fact of why after I meet with that person do I always feel like I want to do nothing else the rest of the day? Why did they drain my energy? Or why isn’t my team producing those kind of results around the table? Why do we get to a point and the discussion doesn’t progress? Those are the hard issues. So, I really want to provide a forum to really help people through those relationship issues.

Jim Rembach:       And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now, before we move on let’s get a quick word from our sponsor:

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Alright, here we go Fast Leader Legion, it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay Ilene, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. I’m going you several questions and your job is to give robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Ilene Marcus, are you ready to hoedown? 

Ilene Marcus:  I am hoedown.

Jim Rembach:      What do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today? 

Ilene Marcus:  I think I need to be more magician and less mule. I think the focus on the operations, I want to focus on the magic. 

Jim Rembach:      What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? 

Ilene Marcus:  Hoedown, hands down—that’s Rudy Giuliani when he appointed me to go over and be a manager. And he said, “Ilene, ten thousand people or ten people—set the goals, watch the steps and bring your team along. It’s all you have to do.

Jim Rembach:      What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success? 

Ilene Marcus:  I’m as far as in a tree person, I can see the break room, the trenches but I can also see the ten thousand foot view of how it fits in. So those two things together, it just comes together and I can see the operational problems and strategy and all those strategy problem with the operation. 

Jim Rembach:      What do you feel is one your best tools that helps you lead in business or life? 

Ilene Marcus:  You picked it out. It’s boundaries, this is my dance space that’s yours let’s stay in our lanes, let’s be clear about our roles and lets move forward. 

Jim Rembach:      What would be one book that you’d recommend to our legion, it could be from any genre, of course we’re going to put a link to Managing Annoying People—Seven Proven Tactics to Maximize Team Performance on your show notes page as well. 

Ilene Marcus:  Thank you. Of course, it will be my book. But I’m going to go with the Carrot Seed. It’s about a little boy who planted a seed and watered it every day and his mother said it wouldn’t grow. And the father said it wouldn’t grow. And his neighbor said…and the postman said it wouldn’t grow. But the little boy kept tending to his see every day and what do you think happened? He grew a big carrot. So you have got to believe in your ideas especially as a leader. You’ve got to look outside evidence and reality but if you don’t believe in them, no one is going to. 

Jim Rembach:      Okay, Fast Leader listeners you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fastleader.net/Ilenemarcus. Okay Ilene, this is my last Hump Day Hoedown question: Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you’ve been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you but you can’t take everything back you can only choose one, what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? 

Ilene Marcus:  I would take back the knowledge that there are always options. If plan A doesn’t work, there are 25 more letters and my new line is—and there are more alphabet’s too. So I think when you’re young and you’re starting you think—if this doesn’t work, if it isn’t this job, if it isn’t this product, if it isn’t this promotion, that’s all there is. There are always options and it’s our job to find them and make them work. 

Jim Rembach:      Ilene, it was an honor to spend time with you today, can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Ilene Marcus:  Please. You can connect with me on Twitter @talkism. You can connect with me on managingannoying.com and you can always email me at ilene@alignedworkplace.com 

Jim Rembach:     Ilene Marcus, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump. Woot! Woot!

Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe, if you haven’t already, head on over the fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster. 

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