Fast Leader Show Podcast https://www.fastleader.net Stories to get over the leadership hump Wed, 11 Dec 2019 13:29:47 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.3 Stories to get over the leadership hump Fast Leader Show Podcast Stories to get over the leadership hump Fast Leader Show Podcast https://www.fastleader.net/wp-content/uploads/fast-leader-podcast-1400.jpg https://www.fastleader.net 255: John DiJulius: Relationship is the differentiator today https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/ Wed, 11 Dec 2019 13:29:47 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=16119 https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/feed/ 0 <p>John DiJulius Show Notes Page John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place. John was born and raised on the East [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/">255: John DiJulius: Relationship is the differentiator today</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> John DiJulius Show Notes Page

John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.

John was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, OH. He is the youngest of 6 kids. His father left his mother when he was only 6 years old. They never saw him again. They were a middle-class family that went to being on welfare overnight.

In school, John was labeled as ADD and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades 1-8, although he never did. He graduated High School dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called; teachers, principals, or the Police).

Eventually, John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after 7 long years. Then he drove a truck for UPS, made decent money, met his wife and they opened a small hair salon in 1993, 4 chairs 900 square feet.

Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept the salon grew extremely rapidly, expanding and opening multiple locations throughout northeast Ohio (suburbs of Cleveland). As a result of the growth and world-class customer service reputation, organizations started asking John to speak.

His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book Secret Service in 2003, which completely took him out of the salon business and full-time with The DiJulius Group. Today he still owns the salons but is not in the day-to-day operations. He also owns Believe in Dreams, a non-profit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children

John R DiJulius, III is the authority on World-Class customer experience. He is an international consultant, keynote speaker, and best-selling author of five customer service books. His newest book, The Relationship Economy – Building Stronger Customer Connections in The Digital Age (Greenleaf Books October 2019) could not be timelier in the world we are living in. John has worked with companies such as The Ritz-Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestlé, Marriott Hotels, PwC, Celebrity Cruises, Anytime Fitness, Progressive Insurance, Harley-Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more.

John currently resides in Aurora, OH. He is a widower with 3 amazing boys. Johnni (27), Cal (22) and Bo (17).

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @JohnDiJulius to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“Today’s illiterate are those who have an inability to make a meaningful connection with others.” – Click to Tweet

“We’re all living in the touch screen age, and it has reduced all of our people skills.” – Click to Tweet

“Technology has brought us incredible advances at a significant cost; human relationships.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s ironic that good old-fashioned relationship is the differentiator today.” – Click to Tweet

“Technology is not the devil. Using it to eliminate the human experience is.” – Click to Tweet

“Customer-facing employees didn’t grow up staying in 5-star resorts yet they’re expected to give that type of service.” – Click to Tweet

“We always have to make sure we are looking at it from the customer’s vantage point.” – Click to Tweet

“So many employees are conditioned that they have to stick to policy.” – Click to Tweet

“Don’t punish 98% of your customers for the 2% that are trying to take advantage of you.” – Click to Tweet

“You tell one hundred people to go above and beyond, and that’s processed one hundred different ways.” – Click to Tweet

“We are all genetically coded to be preoccupied about ourselves.” – Click to Tweet

“Everyone’s your customer, not just the person on the other end of the phone.” – Click to Tweet

“One of the benefits of social media is you can’t hide if you suck.” – Click to Tweet

“Act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others.” – Click to Tweet

“How many people have had a better day as a result of coming into contact with you?” – Click to Tweet

“Live an extraordinary life, so countless others do.” – Click to Tweet

“The seeds of potential we don’t fulfill; we just cheated so many people.” – Click to Tweet

“We’re the Walt Disney of our household or our business.” – Click to Tweet

“You’re not able to get to your fullest potential if I’m cheating you.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.

Advice for others

Give the gift of attention to others.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Myself. Believing in the people around me and helping them to elevate their games.

Best Leadership Advice

Believe in others.

Secret to Success

Bringing the energy.

Best tools in business or life

The ability to delegate and my to do list.

Recommended Reading

The Relationship Economy: Building Stronger Customer Connections in the Digital Age

From the Ground Up: A Journey to Reimagine the Promise of America

Worth Doing Wrong: The Quest to Build a Culture That Rocks

Contacting John DiJulius

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dijulius/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JohnDiJulius

Website: https://thedijuliusgroup.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

How to Skip the Small Talk and Connect with Anyone

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

255 John DiJulius

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast Lear Legion. I’m excited because I have Sony on the show today who has so much depth and understanding into the customer experience that I think the challenge for me is

 

Jim Rembach: (00:09)

keeping it all sorted out so that you can actually have a great experience as well. John did. Julius was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, Ohio. He’s the youngest of six kids. His father left his mother when he was only six years old. They never saw them again. They were a middle class family that went to being on welfare overnight in school. John was labeled as add and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades one through eight although he never did. He graduated high school dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his of his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called teachers, principals, or the police. Eventually John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after seven long years. Then he drove a truck for ups, made decent money, met his wife, and they opened a small hair salon in 1993 four chairs and 900 square feet.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:12)

Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept, the salon grew extremely rapidly expanding and opening multiple locations throughout Northeast Ohio suburbs of Cleveland. As a result of the growth and world class customer service reputation organizations started asking John to come speak. His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book secret service in 2003 which completely took him out of the salon business and full time with the de Julius group. Today, he owns the salon, but it’s not. He’s not part of the day to day operations. He also owns believe in dreams, a nonprofit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children. John R did Julius. The third is the authority on world-class customer experience. He’s an international consultant, keynote speaker, and bestselling author of five customer service books. His newest book, the relationship economy, building stronger customer connections in the digital age. Could not be more timelier for the then no. For the world that we’re living in today. John has worked with companies such as the Ritz Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestle, Marriott hotels, PWC, celebrity cruises, anytime, fitness, progressive insurance, Harley Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more. John currently resides in Aurora, Ohio. He is a widower with three amazing boys. Johnny cowl and Bo, John Julius. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

John DiJulius: (02:40)

I am. Let’s do this.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:41)

John, I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

John DiJulius: (02:50)

Uh, you know, it’s raising my three boys. Uh, you know, making them sure they become a good, good a man and, and good human and a customer service. I love customer service, customer experience. Uh, I’m annoying to people. That’s all I want to talk about. That’s all I want to think about. That’s, that’s, you know, I just, I’m very narrow and deep.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:12)

Well, you know, narrow. Hmm, I guess you’d say your narrow perception, um, has become significantly wide. And what I mean by that is the customer experience is really a major focus for most organizations today. Even when we start talking about political relationships and races, it’s about constituent experience. So customer experience, I mean it’s all around us. I mean it is what you’re saying. It’s all about the relationships and what we’re doing today. But we have some issues, we have some issues in a lot of different ways, but one of the things you talk about immediately is the touch screen age and its impact. What do you mean by that?

 

John DiJulius: (03:54)

Well, you know, today’s illiterate or those who have, uh, inability to make a meaningful connection with others. And we’re all living in the touchscreen age and that’s not generational specific, right? We have grandparents on, uh, on Facebook and social media and we have five-year-olds that we’re handing an iPad to and, and you know, that’s their babysitter today and it has reduced all of our people skills. Um, and you know, technology has brought us incredible advances and benefits and conveniences, but it’s coming a significant cost. And that cost is human relationships. It’s, it’s that, you know, uh, drive customer loyalty, employee satisfaction, and just human happiness.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:37)

Well, unless you’re saying that there are a lot of industry analysts, um, you know, prognosticators forecasters, a lot of people talking about, you know, the machine interaction, the business automation, artificial intelligence and how many of the simple and mundane things are going to be handled by automations. So talking about the touchscreen age, that’s just going to continue to grow. However, the differentiating factor is all that this relationship compete, this piece. So what’s going to be left John?

 

John DiJulius: (05:09)

Well, it’s ironic that good old fashioned relationship is, is now the differentiator today. I mean, you know, it’s back to the 1960s and you know, that pendulum has swung so far over to high tech, low touch or no touch, um, that, um, we’re, we’re starving to be a name to someone, you know, uh, uh, someone, you know, with, with needs and pain points and desires and all those things. And, you know, technology is not the enemy. Um, it’s not the devil. Um, using it to eliminate the human experience is,

 

Jim Rembach: (05:44)

I think that’s a really interesting point that you bring up. So then you start talking about what part of the ability to create a relationship is left. And you talk about seven traits for us to really focus in on, in order us to have

 

John DiJulius: (05:58)

affective interactions with customers. So if you could, let’s walk through those a little bit so people get a better understanding of what we need to not just preserve but also enhance and really use it as a differentiating point. Yeah. And then the whole thing with, with, uh, you know, customer face and employees is they didn’t grow up. I’m staying at, you know, five star resorts, um, all of us, most of us. Um, we didn’t, you know, drive a Mercedes Benz when we turned 16. We didn’t fly first class yet. All of us, when we got our, our, our jobs, first jobs, any job we are expected to give that type of an experience to, to guests, customers, patients consists, ruins, you name it. And it’s unfair. So, you know, there, there, there has to be the part that, that the company understands what they have. They have to dictate what service aptitude, uh, is.

 

John DiJulius: (06:53)

And, and so those seven traits, compassion and empathy, um, not everyone’s going to come with these things, but most of them can be taught. So, you know, you gotta train for compassion and empathy and, you know, we’re apathetic today because, you know, we’re, we’re rushed. We only have three minutes to, you know, conduct this call. You know, the, the, the, the crazy metrics. Um, you know, and you know, we look at people as next and you know, w you know, hospitals look at people as you know, two Oh one bed B and, and you know, five-thirty haircut and all these things. And we have to make sure that we always are looking at it from the customer’s vantage point, what’s going on, um, engagement and, and warmth. Um, those are things you can absolutely spot an interview with w w with questions. And it’s also stuff that, that, that can, um, be taught.

 

John DiJulius: (07:43)

And it’s so much of this is taught in, in a great, um, orientation, soft skill training, uh, a drive to serve ownership. And now the ownership one is hard because so many employees are, are conditioned that they, they have to stick to policy. Right. You know, I’m sorry. [inaudible] we had 30 days to bring this back in. Today’s the 31st day, or I’m sorry, I can’t deliver it. Uh, because you’re outside of our one mile radius. Yeah. I know. It’s only, you know, one point, you know, one miles, but you know, our policy says, and then, you know, they get in trouble if they go against policy and that’s hard. And you know, it’s hard for great companies when you hire employees and you’re like, listen, you know, Jim, no, no policy here. You do whatever you think is eh, but they’re still scared because they’ve had their hand slapped by someone in the past that they’re, they’re, they’re so scared.

 

John DiJulius: (08:36)

Um, charitable assumption. Um, what that means is don’t punish 98% of your customers for what, 2%. You’re afraid to, you know, they’re trying to get taken advantage of you, um, presence that you gotta be present. You gotta be present to win. That. I’m so engaged, I’m with my eyes that, you know, someone could blow a firecracker off and I probably wouldn’t notice because, you know, [inaudible] nothing’s more important than the person I’m taking care of. And you know, the desire to exceed expectations that a lot of that comes from the company to inspire, to celebrate. Let me tell you what Jim did for our client yesterday. He overheard her. He did this, he went out and brushed off the snow of her car and drove it around and walked her out with an umbrella, whatever that may look like. But when you’re constantly celebrating those stories, now I’m, I’m jealous. I’m envious. I have peer pressure to raise my game.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:28)

Well, as you’re talking through running through those, John, I started thinking about all these competing forces. Uh, and while we talk about the whole touchscreen society and all of those forces, um, I also start thinking about the, the competing forces that an organization, uh, just has to contend with when you start talking about the interactions, you know, speed, you know, customer’s expectation of speed, our ability to deliver, you know, on speed. Um, you know, and like you hit on one of the components is, you know, risk, whether it’s legal risk, whether it’s, you know, inconsistency, risk, you know, these are now exceptions, you know, to our system and there are therefore, you know, we now need more people and I don’t need, I don’t want more people because it’s over. I mean all of these competing forces, the KPIs and the metrics that we look at on a daily basis. You mentioned that as well on a, on a, on an annual basis, the ones we have to report to shareholders. If we’re publicly traded, I start thinking about all these competing forces and then we’re laying the burden on that customer relationship, in the interaction on those people who are, you know, innocently, unknowing and unskilled. I mean, to me that’s a recipe for disaster. How do we prevent those things from occurring? So that on the outcome, you know, we’re delivering those relationship building customer experiences.

 

John DiJulius: (10:47)

Well the best, uh, companies, uh, customer service are short term focused, right? And they understand that it has to be a long, long term play. And you know, from, from training employees on the soft skill, I love to ask companies this, I’ll say, you know, if you were to hire my son tomorrow to work on or any customer facing position, um, how much training will you give him, uh, before he can start interacting with your customer, your public? And you know, some people say two days, some people will say two weeks, some people will say two months. That’s not the answer I’m looking for. The answer I’m looking for now is okay, of those 48 hours, 400 hours, 4,000 hours, how much of it is operational technical processes and how much is his soft skill, uh, showing empathy and compassion, the traits we just listed, making a brilliant comeback when we dropped the ball.

 

John DiJulius: (11:40)

Um, you know, those who are building a rapport and in most cases it’s 98% operational processes and way less than 2%. And at 2% sometimes is see that sign in the back. Um, you know, we’re customer first. Yeah, go do that. And you know, you know, you tell 20 people, you tell a hundred people to go above and beyond. That’s, that’s processed a hundred different ways. And so you got to make it black and white, right? And so, you know, if I tell you or anyone they go deliver genuine hospitality, I go and do that ready to go and we all break. Can we all go start content? You know, customer support, customer calls, um, you know, what does genuine hospitality really mean? So, you know, we like to make it specific, right? It’s the fi, it’s the five E’s, it’s, it’s, uh, and it take less than five seconds and, and the first three, take one second.

 

John DiJulius: (12:34)

You know, it’s enthusiastic. Greet ear to your smile, eye contact, engage them and educate them. Now I can watch you, I can listen to you read an email and say, you know, Jim, you didn’t deliver genuine hospitality. You know, your tone was like they were in an eruption in your day. You weren’t smiling. I couldn’t hear a smile in your voice. You weren’t enthusiastic, you didn’t educate them. I, they did not hang up thinking, man, Jim’s the smartest person I’ve ever met at his job. So, you know, that’s black and white. Well, and in order to be able to deepen that and enrich in that relationship, you even have another, you know, talk about the five E’s, but you also have Ford. Um, and so explain what Ford is. Yeah, I really like $4 clients have really implemented it. Um, I love to ask people, audiences, uh, companies, uh, staff, you know, who here is good at building an instant rapport with a stranger and acquaintance and everyone raises their hand.

 

John DiJulius: (13:32)

And I say, I don’t believe you. Uh, and I said, you know, you, you might, uh, you know, met someone yesterday at Starbucks or a business meeting at lunch, whatever it may be, and you might have spoke to him for 20 minutes, 30 minutes. But that doesn’t mean you built a rapport. You could have been speaking about yourself for that length of time. And we are all genetically coded to be preoccupied about ourselves. It’s not a slam, but it’s my flight that was delayed. It’s my client that’s threatening to, to, you know, get out of his contract. It’s my son that got in trouble at school today. Right? So in order to fight that, that urge, um, you know, I always say, if you want to prove to me, you know, that you built a relationship with someone would be a three minute conversation, 30 minute conversation.

 

John DiJulius: (14:16)

You have to be able to tell me two or more things of their Ford. And if you could tell me two or more things in there, Ford, you, you not only built a relationship, you own the relationship because to each and every one of us, our own Ford is our hot buttons. It’s what gets us talking fast. It’s what gets, you know, there’s some things you don’t want to ask me about my Ford unless you have two hours to, you know, listen, because I’m going to, I’m going to go on. And customer service is one of them. So for the F stands for family, right? Are they married? Do they have kids? How old are their kids? Oh, occupation. What’s he do? How long has he been doing it? What’s his title? Um, our recreation. Um, you know, what does she like to do with her or their free time or off time. She might be a yoga instructor. She, she might, you know, run marathons. Um, he might be a little league coach and then D D stands for dream. You know, what’s on their bucket list? What’s their dream vacation, what’s his Encore, you know, career that he’s shooting for.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:11)

Now, as you’re talking about that, John, I started thinking about how some people would take that purely mechanically and would say, Oh, this is my progression that I need to take. However, I would dare to say, you know, while Ford is a framework, you don’t necessarily do it in that order.

 

John DiJulius: (15:24)

No, God, no, no. I mean, you know, just like how our conversation started, you know, wherever you’re from and, and you know, and a lot of times people will offer Ford, you know, without you even asking. The problem is if you’re not paying attention to it, it’ll go right over your head. Right. And I’m guilty of this, so, so, so, uh, one of our must is in my company and a lot of our clients have adopted this is we cannot have a conference call with our clients or employees that are virtual that it has to be a zoom. It has to be a video call, right? For exactly list. I see Jimmy is a nice guy and I’m also, you are exposing so much forward to me as I am even, you know, on our walls. And you pick up on that and I’ll be honest, I’ve been guilty.

 

John DiJulius: (16:11)

Here’s the real reason why I do it is if I’m not on video, I’m not on stage. And what happens is my phone starts blowing up as we’re talking and I look and my son’s asking me if he can do something. I’ve already said no 16 times. So I’m responding and you just told me how you have to go back, you know, to, to uh, you know, your home, your home town because your grandmother passed away. And I’m like, Oh, that’s good, Jim. Chip, good, good, good. And you know, totally not listening, right? So, you know, these are techniques that make sure that we’re building that relationships. And man, this guy is a really nice, and you’re laughing at what I’m saying. So that makes me feel good and vice versa.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:50)

Well, and for me it’s cause it’s like, Oh gosh. Yeah. I mean I think of those times where I’ve actually done those things and you know, it’s like, okay, I’m sorry, can you say that again? Right. And you, I this, what you just said is exactly one of the things that I’ve instituted and I’ve pretty much every single meeting I have, I’m putting in a zoom link and I want to see people’s face. I want to make that connection. I want to be able to build that rapport. I want to, I mean, because even if it’s just a five minute, you know, you know, connection with the face and all of that, it’s significantly, you know, it’s a value point and it’s a value.

 

John DiJulius: (17:24)

You got this great smile, Jim, you really do from, from the moment we got on. But if I’m not seeing it and you might not be doing it if it’s over the phone and you know, that smile really resonates and makes me think, man, this guy is really, this is someone who I want to do business with.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:40)

Well, and I think when we incorporate all of these different things that are associated with, you know, making this, you know, relationship type of connection, these building blocks, uh, and we start doing, um, in a lot of different parts of the organization, that’s our striving the culture. And so you talk about a culture that rocks and you refer to, uh, a RNA wall, a mall, hymns book about a culture that rocks. But there was some particular elements in that that stood out for you. Can you please share those?

 

John DiJulius: (18:07)

Yeah. Irony. Maul ham is a, he’s built and sold several companies and now he’s a, a bestselling author and he, uh, his book is called the worth doing wrong. And, uh, it, the quest to build a culture that rocks. And, um, he hired us in when we’d come in. I w he hired us. His stuff on his employee experience is just amazing. So, you know, there’s a lot of things, you know, that he’s created. Um, you know, you know, in, in, in, they does it such low hanging fruit. It doesn’t cost a whole lot, but you know, he’s done things like, you know, unrestricted paid time off, um, surprise beer carts, uh, that just shows up at work. He has a better book club where he actually pays his employees to read, um, you know, free postage, uh, that he, he has a dream manager, a program that helps employees accomplish their personal dreams.

 

John DiJulius: (19:05)

And sometimes, you know, they are, that they don’t want to be here in a year from now. That’s okay. You know, uh, you know, that, you know, we know that we can’t be for everyone forever. And to some people that’s going to be a, a, a, we’re going to be a temporary transitional job, but I want that two years that you give us the best two years, um, confidential cash advances. And, and you know, irony is just, uh, he’s just brilliant the way he builds a cut culture on purpose. And, um, his employees will go through a fires for him because he does for them.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:40)

Well, and when you started talking about all of that, man, you talked to him about that, that foundational component, um, you also added something towards the back of the book, talking about how your customer experience is always on stage. Uh, and there’s five things that you talk about and associated that. So how is our CX always on stage?

 

John DiJulius: (20:01)

Well, you know, that’s the, the one thing that, that a lot of people don’t, um, you know, remember is the a M when they’re on stage. So, like, you know, in my first business, the salon business, you know, people, uh, forget that just because you know, you’re, you’re not working and you’re not in front of someone. So, so an example is let’s say a hairdresser, and this can happen in the doctor’s office. This can happen in a, you know, uh, a context center. But, uh, you know, a hairdresser walks up to the front desk and, uh, you know, you’re, you’re my friend working at the front desk and I’m waiting, you know, for you to get off or I’m waiting for you to stop serving this, this guest. So you can tell me, um, you know, we’re, we’re going to go out tonight, we’re going to go out for beers, whatever it is.

 

John DiJulius: (20:49)

Well, so I’m sitting there on my phone texting because, you know, I don’t want to interrupt, I’m going to be polite. You have some guests that you got to take care of. Well me, ma, there’s four or five guests in a line waiting to be checked in, checked out. And what they see is two employees, one taken care of, you know, the, the customer. And the other one texting, there’s not a sign above my head that says, Oh, I don’t work up here. You know, I’m off. So you know, we’re on stage there. Or you can come in on your off day and do your mom’s hair and you’re dressed like it’s an off day. Right. Um, and you know, again, the customers think, man, did they have some unprofessionally looking, you know, employees working here cause you’ve got a wife beater shirt on or a tube top or whatever it may be. Um, so, so, you know, always remember that you’re still on stage leaving at a D at the door, right? Uh, one of my best experiences I studied at, at um, uh, the, um, the Disney Institute and I got to go, this is back in the 90s, and I got to go underground and, and magic King has a whole underground and, and I hope you don’t have any listeners like under eight. Do you? I don’t want to ruin it for them.

 

John DiJulius: (22:01)

Parents cover your, your, your children’s ears. So, so, uh, I’m sure in magic kingdom ground where Casper is punching punch up and take breaks and, uh, uh, I see snow white on break smoking a cigarette, complainant about some guy and I’m like, Oh my God. You know, and then she goes back in and she freshers herself up, she punches back in, she goes up these stairs through these bushes and she reappears on magic kinda ground and 15 little five, six and seven year olds come charging at her. And she turns back in this beautiful angelic princess signing their pad, you know, posing for pictures and with Disney did was they taught her right? That, that, um, you know, people, you know, spend a lot of money, travel a long way, um, maybe, you know, save up for three years and that she’s, she’s snow white and she can’t pick and choose when she could be snow white.

 

John DiJulius: (22:50)

And so it’s every business, right? You’ve gotta leave it at the door or leave yourself at the door, um, must be present to win. Um, meaning, you know, you’re so focused on the person that, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re engaging with. And not looking over your shoulder. I’m not texting, I’m not having a conversation with my coworker. Um, you know, we, we have a video for call centers that, you know, someone’s, you know, taking a call and, you know, the, the person next to him says, I’m going to Starbucks. Um, what do you want? Oh, and you know, she’s, you know, back to, I’m not really listening. You know, everyone’s your customer, everyone’s your customer, not just the person on the other end of the phone or, or on the other end of the counter. Um, your coworkers, right? You’ve got to treat them with the same utmost respect that the ups man that’s coming in.

 

John DiJulius: (23:36)

Th this stranger in the elevator. And then, and then lastly, everyone’s in the media and, you know, listen, you know, for w w w everyone has a, a, a, a, uh, a camera, a video camera. Um, and just everything goes viral today. And, you know, I love that about social media. One of the benefits of social media is it has shine a spotlight, um, on it. You can’t hide if you suck. Um, and you know, years ago, if it would’ve happened 25 years ago, the United incidents where they drag the doctor off the airplane, that would is a, he said she said thing, but because you know, there’s proof United had to own up to it. And those things are great because that, that, you know, makes us train our employees better. Hopefully be choosy of our employees and be conscious that, you know, yeah. Well I’d love to, you know, really tell this guy what a, a diva he’s, he’s being, um, you know, I, I don’t want that on, on the six o’clock news.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:35)

Well and as you were talking, I mean to John, I started you talking about the whole development thing and you know, being able to help people to be more successful. Cause a lot of times what organizations will do from a customer experience contact center perspective is that they’ll have quality control standards and all of that in place. And they’re dinging people for their lack of performance, but they’re not developing them. So, I mean that, I mean, you talking about burnout, I’ll burn out fast if you just keep beating me and not developing me. Uh, but when we’d start talking about it at the front line level and you had talked about how, how much of that development are you going to give those frontline people, right? Saying to me, maybe it’s 2%. Well, we do the same thing for those frontline leaders and we, Hey, you know what?

 

Jim Rembach: (25:14)

You’re good at being this person. So now I want you to supervise. And people doing that same thing, right? So it, it, you know, it continues to actually build upon itself. Um, but I, I think for me, when we start talking about this relationship component and the differentiating factor, and I think Jack mob, you know, the founder of Alibaba, you know, I’ve mentioned it several times where he’s come out and said, stop teaching your kids about things that they could just look up on Google. You need to teach them how to be better people. You need to teach them about art, you know, and, and, and music and all of those things that are helping them to be better people. That’s going to be the differentiating factor of the future because all the other stuff’s gonna be automated out. It’s going to be easily accessed, it’s going to be business ruled, it’s going to be, you know, very simple. Um, and it’s the human commotion and connection that’s different. So your book, you know, really is the foundational component for all of us to be able to build that. But when we start talking about making connection, and I love this part that you mentioned, the book, um, and for me, I think it’s critically important when we start talking about conducting ourselves. You talk about screw in the small talk, you know, let’s get to the big talk. Well, what do you mean by big talk?

 

John DiJulius: (26:24)

I love that. And I was inspired by a Ted talk. Um, her name is Kaleena got, and I think if you just Google, um, screw the small talk, uh, go for the big talk. That was her theme. And she was a college student that was just struggling and lonely and just not making connections and having all these surface and, you know, then she went on vacation or, or I’m sorry, you know, went on a college trip to, you know, I think, you know, uh, you know, maybe a mission or something. And just when people are away on vacation, they’re there. There’s, they, they let their guard down, they make, you know, and we make these packs that we’re going to, you know, visit and write and do all these things, but, you know, and she’s like, well, why can’t this, the, these, uh, you know, conversations, the depth of conversations that we seem to have on vacation, but total strangers be the same with, with my friends and, and people I meet.

 

John DiJulius: (27:15)

So she, uh, you know, that was her, her topic. Uh, screw the small talk. Quit asking about, um, you know, Hey, what’s going on, how’s your day, blah, blah, blah. And you know, when you have quality time, really go and ask questions. Hey, you know, you know, we’re out to dinner and we’re having beers or you know, the four of us a significant others are out and we do this. I have it in my phone, big talk questions and I love it. And it’s from her and it’s just from questions, you know, Jim, if you’re today was your last day, what would be your biggest regret? Or you know, who’s someone that, you know, uh, uh, a celebrity that you love to have lunch with, you know, and, and you know, things like that. What’s the one thing you hope you’re, you, you know, what you know, here’s a good one.

 

John DiJulius: (27:57)

That it was really surprising. What’s the first thing you think of that pops in your head when you get up in the morning? And a really good friend of ours said, Oh my God, I have to go to work. I hate my job. And I just felt like, you know, and maybe that’s a normal one, but I just was like, Oh God. Like I felt, so I wanted to help her get a new job because I like you, I’m sure I wake up and I can’t believe I get to do this and I know I might be in the minority, but what a horrible thought for you know, just to think that, you know, in, in, in 27 years or in 13 years, I could retire and hoping that you get old fast. Right? So, but, but you wouldn’t have those without, you know, having those stimulating questions that take it to a much deeper place. And it really exposes a lot about the person in a nonjudgmental way. But you know, where, where they’ve come up with that thought pattern, something from their childhood, whatever it may be.

 

Jim Rembach: (28:54)

And what we don’t realize is that helps us to make significantly deeper connections than we could otherwise. And incorporating those into our business are important. I mean, and so maybe our big questions that we’re asking people, you know, aren’t things that would be inappropriate to ask, but yet still allow us to make connection. Now. This is all inspiring and we need to do it in order to be able to refocus and make these changes and to make these connections. And you have a lot of quotes that you have in the book, but is there one or two that stand out for you that you’d like to share?

 

John DiJulius: (29:23)

Yeah, yeah. So, so, uh, I have a quote that pops up on my phone at 6:00 AM in the morning, um, every morning. And then when it pops up, uh, at 10:00 PM and then at 6:00 AM is act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others. Um, and that’s important to me and, and I try to do it, act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others. And then, you know, the one at the end of the day is, you know, how many people had a better day as a result of coming in contact with you. And I really try to think about that and kind of, you know, and, and some days I’m not happy with the answer, you know, as a bad mood. I, I rushed, I, I snapped at my kid, you know, cause we were on, you know, taking them to school and they said, Oh wait dad, I left my homework at, at home and you know, I do, you know how that’s gonna screw up. I gotta be at Erie, you know, you know, that’s the way I, I let him go off to school, you know. So it’s those two things at this. If today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others and how many people had a better day as a result of coming in contact with me.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:23)

I love that. Now, John, also for you and I, um, you know, we went through an activity of, of building your bio for the fast leader show because a lot of my guests, they don’t come with a bio that I asked for me. Cause of a lot of the things that you’re talking about in this book, how do people connect with John that they’ve never been able to connect with before? Um, they know who John is, not just what John has done. Um, and, and, and I, I get a lot of feedback for that. Sometimes I get feedback saying, well, I don’t like to do this, you know, and, and as you know, guests and I’m like, well, then you’re just not a fit for the show. No big deal. Um, because relationships are critically important. Um, and so one of the ways that we also learn is by people sharing their stories of what, when they got over the hump and that has two effects. Um, one is, you know, we get to learn about the person even more, and then also hopefully we can take those learnings for ourselves. Yeah. So is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

John DiJulius: (31:14)

Yeah, I hit it too many. And I think sometimes when we learn from our worst practices or other people’s worst practices, but, uh, you know, um, growing too fast, I think that’s a struggle. Um, you know, [inaudible] it’s intoxicating. Uh, but then you wake up and you realize that you’ve added some people that I don’t know why, uh, you know, I would never would have hired this person or kept this person or compromise, but you convince yourself, you know, not only do I need to keep Jim, I need, you know, 10 more. So, you know, but, you know, now we’re losing clients, losing employees because we kept a bad attitude or things like that. And, and, and, you know, maybe taking jobs or clients that weren’t in our wheel house. Um, so, you know, I, I look back on everything. I’ve made a mistake in that I regret or, you know, embarrassed to, eh, I actually found a pattern and in my whole life from little league to, you know, college to, you know, everything is, I’ve always been the underdog, right?

 

John DiJulius: (32:19)

I’ve always been too short to, to play, you know, at the level I wanted to. And, but yet I, I walked down, I made, you know, college baseball, right? Um, you know, you know, was not a smart person. It, you know, and, you know, academic, you know, ways. And I really grew up thinking that I had, you know, a mental issue cause that’s what the teachers are telling. So, you know, I’ve always had a chip on my shoulder, but it’s when I, I take that chip on my shoulder off and think I’ve made it right and think I deserve. And you know, and I, I think that, you know, the, the last standing ovation I had, you know, is, is, you know, I believe it or you know, something that, you know, and that’s where I, I find that I end up in a, in a, in a bad place where, you know, when I’m not the underdog, um, you know, I, I have to keep that chip on my shoulder because that’s always correlation to, you know, where I start believe in my bio. You know, I like the bio you had, cause the bio, you read the bio, you researched, um, talk more about my failures. Uh, but if I read that, you know, he’s a bestselling author and you know, this, that whatever, and I start to believe that I started having, you know, some, some cleaning up to do, I can understand what you say. Your humility is where your gold is, right? Yeah, exactly.

 

Jim Rembach: (33:35)

Well, John, I, you know, you’ve written several books. You have the digital ileus group, you’re doing a lot of things. Um, and I know you have several goals. You know, the boys you said you want them to be able to impact humanity, uh, even more so than you have already. Um, I think that’s all of our goals as parents who want to achieve, right? We want our kids to outdo us. Um, but when I start thinking about one of those goals,

 

John DiJulius: (33:58)

what would it be? You know, I have my favorite mantra and it’s up, uh, you know, in my mirror and my office is, you know, to live an extraordinary life so countless others do. And, and that, that really is important to me. And it’s just not a mantra I look at. I write a plan for it. And what I mean is, you know, I don’t want to live an extraordinary life, so I have more houses, more cars, more vacations, more money in the bank account. Um, if I live an extraordinary life, the chances that my kids, my clients, my employees will, and I feel that that’s not an opportunity. It’s, it’s our obligation to, so we all have seeds of potential and, um, the, the, the seeds of potential we don’t fulfill. We just cheated so many people. Right. Um, you know, think of if Martin Luther King, well, Disney, you know, the, you know, Nelson Mandela, you know, all that.

 

John DiJulius: (34:51)

But what if they just said ass, screw it. I’m going to be ordinary, right? How different our lives should be today. And you know, we’re the Walt Disney, uh, of our household or of our business or whatever. And you know, if I choose to, to eat donuts at lunch, um, go have beers with, uh, my buddies from college who are not, you know, the best influence on me. Um, and, and you’re a good friend, you’re a family member, you’re a a partner. And, and you know, you come to me and say, John, I don’t think you’re making the right choices. Some people would say, Hey, that’s none of your business. I call bull. You know, because if I make those bad choices, it does impact you. I’m not as good of a partner. I’m not as good of a parent. I’m not as good as a significant other.

 

John DiJulius: (35:38)

I’m not as good about a boss and I’m not going to be able to help you get to your fullest potential if I’m cheating you. And you know, and you know, it’s the old thing, you know, you, you, you, you eat like crap and you don’t exercise and you’d come home and you’d just collapse on the couch, have a beer and your watch ESPN and your kid wants you to play catch. I got on that right now, right? I mean, you know, what is that? So, so that is a burden that, that really guides me to make better decisions because it’s not for me. It’s not for my benefit. It’s for all the people, the ripple effect that are dependent on me to make good decisions.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:12)

And the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:19)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities. They want to improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com for slash

 

Jim Rembach: (36:38)

better.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:39)

All right, here we go. Fast to the Allegion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay John, the hump day hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust get rapid response to sort of help us with onward and upward faster. John did Julius, are you ready to hoedown?

 

John DiJulius: (37:00)

Hi.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:01)

Yep. Alright. So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

John DiJulius: (37:08)

I’m just, you know, I can’t make excuses and, and just have to believe in the people around me and help elevate their games.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:17)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

John DiJulius: (37:20)

Uh, I believe in others. Um, you know, believe in others and even when it’s not easy to believe in them, that’s the time to believe in them.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:28)

What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

John DiJulius: (37:33)

Uh, I, you know, I, uh, energy, I love words and, and, and energy. You bring it, you bring it and, and, and the room picks up. Um, I, I see you walking by on Jim Jibo, you know, how you do and, and you know, he has a, uh, uh, uh, a bounce in his step.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:50)

What is one of your tools that you help, believes, drives you and helps you in business or life?

 

John DiJulius: (37:57)

I, you know, I, I think, uh, just the ability to delegate and, and, and, and also my a to do list. I, I’m, I’m a freak about my to do list and limiting the things I have to, to get done today. Instead of having 20, I have three, I have to get those done and everything else is a bonus.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:15)

And what would be one book you’d recommend to our Legion and it can be from any genre. Of course we’re going to put a link to the relationship economy on your show notes page as well as well as your other books.

 

John DiJulius: (38:25)

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I just read, uh, from the ground up by Howard Schultz. Um, the uh, us Starbucks, a CEO and kind of founder of Starbucks. Um, and it’s really uh, inspiring the, the uh, the person he is, uh, uh, the social conscious he has for people and communities outside of being a very successful

 

Jim Rembach: (38:47)

business owner. Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/john D Julius. Okay. John, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and,

 

John DiJulius: (39:09)

well, um, I don’t know if I can, uh, the word be an empathy being present. Um, I, you know, I, I was, I just, I just think it was something that I, I had a, uh, a reputation for you got to say a quick five words or less and I’m embarrassed of that today and to give people my presence and my attention. I think the greatest gift we can give anyone is the gift of our attention and having that skill set, I learned it, but man, I, I’d be so much further, um, just in an emotional capital if I had to learn that a younger age.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:46)

John, I had fun with you. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you?

 

John DiJulius: (39:50)

Uh, the de Julius group.com, uh, the de Julius group.com. Uh, email me John at the D, Julie’s group.com.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:57)

John did Julius, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 255: John DiJulius: Relationship is the differentiator today appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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John DiJulius Show Notes Page John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a b... John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.
John was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, OH. He is the youngest of 6 kids. His father left his mother when he was only 6 years old. They never saw him again. They were a middle-class family that went to being on welfare overnight.
In school, John was labeled as ADD and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades 1-8, although he never did. He graduated High School dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called; teachers, principals, or the Police).
Eventually, John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after 7 long years. Then he drove a truck for UPS, made decent money, met his wife and they opened a small hair salon in 1993, 4 chairs 900 square feet.
Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept the salon grew extremely rapidly, expanding and opening multiple locations throughout northeast Ohio (suburbs of Cleveland). As a result of the growth and world-class customer service reputation, organizations started asking John to speak.
His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book Secret Service in 2003, which completely took him out of the salon business and full-time with The DiJulius Group. Today he still owns the salons but is not in the day-to-day operations. He also owns Believe in Dreams, a non-profit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children
John R DiJulius, III is the authority on World-Class customer experience. He is an international consultant, keynote speaker, and best-selling author of five customer service books. His newest book, The Relationship Economy – Building Stronger Customer Connections in The Digital Age (Greenleaf Books October 2019) could not be timelier in the world we are living in. John has worked with companies such as The Ritz-Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestlé, Marriott Hotels, PwC, Celebrity Cruises, Anytime Fitness, Progressive Insurance, Harley-Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more.
John currently resides in Aurora, OH. He is a widower with 3 amazing boys. Johnni (27), Cal (22) and Bo (17).
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @JohnDiJulius to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“Today’s illiterate are those who have an inability to make a meaningful connection with others.” – Click to Tweet
“We’re all living in the touch screen age, and it has reduced all of our people skills.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15936 https://www.fastleader.net/darrengold/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/darrengold/feed/ 0 <p>Darren Gold Show Notes Page Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code. Darren was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/darrengold/">254: Darren Gold: Master your code</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Darren Gold Show Notes Page

Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code.

Darren was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, a suburb of Los Angeles, at the age of 8. His parents divorced shortly after moving to the US, and Darren grew up with his father in a one-bedroom apartment.

Darren was raised on the edge of poverty, surrounded by crime and addiction. Both his father and mother spent intermittent times in jail. Darren was determined at an early age to break out of this cycle, and was the first in his family to attend college. He went to UCLA where he supported himself and his father by working full time while attending school. Working as a copy boy in a law firm blocks from the UCLA campus convinced Darren to attend law school.

He graduated from The University of Michigan Law School and began his career as an attorney. He soon realized that he loved law school but didn’t feel the same way about the practice of law. He left legal practice after a year and a half and joined the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. He then went on to serve as a Partner at two San Francisco private equity firms where he sat on the boards of dozens of companies and was responsible for investing and managing hundreds of millions of dollars of capital. About a decade into this part of his career, Darren became the CEO of one of the companies for which he was serving as a board director.

After serving as CEO of two companies, Darren joined the Trium Group, an elite management consulting firm focused on the intersection of strategy execution and human performance. As a Managing Partner of Trium, Darren is an executive coach, advisor, and consultant to the CEOs and leadership teams of many of the world’s best-known organizations, including Roche, Dropbox, Lululemon, Sephora, Cisco, eBay, Activision, and Warner Bros.

His clients describe him as a visionary, transformational change agent. Darren is the author of Master Your Code: The Art, Wisdom, and Science of Leading an Extraordinary Life. A groundbreaking guide for rewriting your program and mastering every aspect of your life.

Darren currently lives in the Bay Area with his wife of 24 years and his youngest son. His two oldest children are currently in college studying business at SMU in Dallas, Texas and musical theater at Montclair State University in New Jersey.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @darrenjgold to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“Everybody has the opportunity to live an extraordinary life.” – Click to Tweet

“We have far more potential than we may otherwise believe.” – Click to Tweet

“The default way of being human is to hold a certain set of beliefs that were designed to keep us safe, not to thrive.” – Click to Tweet

“The human superpower is the ability to choose the meaning we give to our circumstances.” – Click to Tweet

“Life shows up as a set of choices that we make about the meaning that we give our circumstances.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s a part of language which is generative where we declare something into existence.” – Click to Tweet

“The more that we can declare the more we create a reality.” – Click to Tweet

“We create our reality often times through our language.” – Click to Tweet

“If you want to achieve extraordinary results in life part of it is declaring those results.” – Click to Tweet

“We construct a set of beliefs, values, and rules subconsciously that limits the results we get.” – Click to Tweet

“Most of our listening is about us.” – Click to Tweet

“We neglect the power of complete and true listening.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s an exquisite art and practice to really listen to somebody.” – Click to Tweet

“The fundamental default of human beings is to externalize.” – Click to Tweet

“Most of our issues in any part of our lives aren’t problems to be solved. What they are instead is natural and healthy tensions.” – Click to Tweet

“The very way we talk about change induces the very resistance to change they we’re trying to avoid.” – Click to Tweet

“If we want to achieve whatever it is that we want in life, we have to master ourselves.” – Click to Tweet

“Leaders underestimate is their ability through the use of language to create futures.” – Click to Tweet

“Great leaders are ones that have a vision and then generate possibility for people by declaring what that future is.” – Click to Tweet

“Reconstruct your identity, the actions you take will be a manifestation of the beliefs you hold about yourself.” – Click to Tweet

“Build a responsible mindset. You’re 100% responsible for your life.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code.

Advice for others

Build a responsible mindset. You’re 100% responsible for your life.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Challenge myself and not get complacent.

Best Leadership Advice

The power of creating a future for people to live into.

Secret to Success

Daily rituals.

Best tools in business or life

My identity.

Recommended Reading

Master Your Code: The Art, Wisdom, and Science of Leading an Extraordinary Life

A Failure of Nerve, Revised Edition: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix

Contacting Darren Gold

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrengold-unlockingpotential/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Darrenjgold

Website: https://www.darrenjgold.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

254: Darren Gold: Master your code

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m thrilled because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to help you decipher some of him. Very important components and element. It’s

 

Jim Rembach: (00:09)

about how you’re programmed and wired. Darren gold was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, a suburb of Los Angeles at the age of eight. His parents divorced shortly after moving to the U S and Darren grew up with his father in a one bedroom apartment. Darren was raised on the edge of poverty surrounded by crime and addiction. Both his father and mother spent intermittent times in jail. Darren was determined at an early age to break out of the cycle and was the first in his family to attend college. He went to UCLA where he supported himself and his father by working full time while attending school, working as a copyboy in a law firm, blocks from the UCLA campus, convinced Darren to attend law school. He graduated from the university of Michigan law school and began his career as an attorney. He soon realized that he loved law school, but didn’t feel the same way about the practice of law.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:05)

He left that legal practice after a year and a half and join the consulting firm, McKinsey and company. He then went on to serve as a partner at two San Francisco private equity firms where he sat on the boards of dozens of companies and was responsible for investing and managing hundreds of millions of dollars of capital. After a decade into this part of his career, Darren became the CEO of one of the companies for which he was serving as a board director. After serving as CEO of two companies, Jair Darren joined the trim group and elite management consulting firm focused on the intersection of strategy, execution, and human performance. As a managing partner of trim, Darren is an executive coach, advisor, and consultant to the CEOs and leadership teams of many of the world’s best known organizations, including Roche, Dropbox, Lulu, lemon, Sephora, Cisco, eBay, Activision, and Warner brothers. His clients described him as a visionary, transformational change agent.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:59)

Darren is the author of master your code, the art, wisdom and science of leading an extraordinary life, a groundbreaking guide for rewriting your program and mastering every aspect of your life. Darren currently lives in the Bay area with his wife of 24 years, and his youngest son, his two oldest children are currently in college studying business at SMU in Dallas, Texas and musical theater and Montclair st university in New Jersey. Darren gold. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? I’m ready. Excited to be here. Thanks for having me. And I’m excited that you’re here because getting the opportunity to go through your book, I mean, it was intriguing at first. Um, and then I just got pulled into it. Uh, and a lot of it because of what we talked about off mic, you know, some of these personal things that we’ll get into is so that others can benefit from. But I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? Yeah. Um, it’s great to be on. And, uh, my passion is, and part of the reason,

 

Darren Gold: (03:00)

main reason why I wrote the book is a fundamental belief that everybody has the opportunity to live an extraordinary life. And I work with people in the context of leadership, but we’re all leaders. We’re leaders of our businesses were leaders of our families, were leadership leaders of our relationships. Um, and the wisdom that I’ve been able to get over the years and I’m still getting, getting, uh, is a realization that we have far more potential than we may, uh, otherwise I believe. And so my mission is to bring that wisdom to bear in the form of the book that I’ve written and the work that I do with senior leaders to enable people to, um, really tap into their potential and, and lead an extraordinary life.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:42)

Well, and as you know, as you’re talking, you know, for me, you know, it often may give people the opportunity to think wrong-headed, um, in a lot of ways. And wrongheaded meaning that, well, this just is the way that I am, you know, and there’s not a darn thing I can do about it and I’m not going to change it. No one else is going to change it. And that’s part of what you talk about. Um, meaning that this is how average people think and this is how extraordinary people think. And, and I, I don’t, I want to say that that’s not necessarily a judgment thing, meaning that Hey, you’re average and it’s bad, but it’s an opportunity if you choose to see it that way.

 

Darren Gold: (04:18)

Yeah, I would almost say it, and I do say it as average and extraordinary to be a little provocative, but it’s the default way of being human. The default way of being human, which is a function of our culture. And the way, uh, we’re raised in our environment is to hold a certain set of beliefs. And those beliefs are ones that were constructed usually very early on in childhood. And they’re designed to keep us safe, not necessarily to thrive. And so when I use the word average human being, I’m referring to all of us, right? We are born into a culture that has us believing, uh, a certain set of beliefs, a program that’s running us. And it’s really the realization of that that creates the opportunity to have real breakthrough and extraordinary performance in your life.

 

Jim Rembach: (05:06)

And so why, I mean this is important in a lot of ways when you target a life. But if we start talking about in the context of many of the listeners of the fast leader show is that we’re all dealing with change. We’re all needing to transform. We’re all needing to be, you know, proactive in the ongoing innovative aspects of our businesses. Boom, a as well as our lives. Cause we know those lines are getting blended together. Uh, and so when you start talking about the average and we’re gonna share, what that means in a minute is that they’re preventing you from all of that transformation. They’re preventing your organization from being more customer centric. They’re preventing your organization from being more collaborative and creative in their thinking. It’s all of these things that undermine what we’re wanting to do.

 

Darren Gold: (05:51)

Yeah, that’s right. You know, I like to say that the, the, the, the, the human superpower is the ability to choose the meaning that we give to our circumstances. So as you said, we’re all living in a world with massive complexity and massive change. And uh, the superpower that we all possess is the ability to give meaning to those circumstances. And you can have two, uh, people that confront the same set of circumstances that will give entirely different meaning to the circumstances and as a result, take an entirely different set of actions and get an entirely different set of results. I say in my book, this story that you remember may remember reading Jim, which is a two shoe salesman, you know, dispatched in 1900 from London, uh, to uh, to an emerging country to see if there’s a market for shoes. And they take the boat there.

 

Darren Gold: (06:39)

It’s a four day long journey and they get to, they get to their destination, they get off the ship and all they can see as far as the eye can, can see is thousands of villagers, all of whom are not wearing shoes. They rushed back to the Telegraph office. The first shoe salesman says, total disaster, no one here wear shoes. I’ll be on the next boat home. The other says, glorious opportunity. No one here wear shoes yet. Please send more inventory fast. And so life shows up as a set of choices that we make about the meaning that we give to our circumstances. And we’re either giving them one meaning, right? Which is something that’s limiting our effectiveness, limiting the actions we can take, limiting the results we can yet, or we’re giving it the totally different meaning. The key is we have a choice and we totally construct it. And so if you think about life that way, you start to begin to imagine how much power and how much potential you have as a human being, as a leader, right? To see your circumstances in a whole variety of different ways. Some of which can be empowering, some of which art.

 

Jim Rembach: (07:42)

Well, and also as you’re saying that I start thinking about someone who could be, you know, responsible for those two shoe salesman and knowing how they actually think, you know, and how they’re coded to be able to coach and guide them, you know, appropriately. So the guy that comes back and says, Hey, don’t do anything. It’s okay. Well let’s look at this a little bit differently. Right? Yeah, that’s exactly right. Okay. So I think that’s also a perfectly good setup. Um, when you give instructions in the book are for us to share the, how you do that. Um, and you say how to read this book and then mastering your code and it’s how it’s divided into 10 chapters. And so I’m going to run through these real quick cause I think it’s critically important so that people can see this transition in the difference between, um, and you also talk about polarity and we’ll, we’ll share that in a second, um, in a moment as well.

 

Jim Rembach: (08:27)

But you say the average person who’s run by program, by a program believes certain things. And then extraordinary person who, who masters his or her code declares these things. All right? So this is how the chapters go. It’s, I am who I am, or I am the author of my life. I am hardwired to react or I act. I don’t react. I avoid risk and do whatever it takes to stay. Or I played a win. I avoid responsibility whenever I can, or I’m 100% responsible for my life. I hold onto grudges or I forgive unconditionally. I need to be right, or I seek to understand. I don’t challenge the status quo or I own my identity. I have limited potential or I never stop learning and growing. I don’t keep my commitments or I am my word. I don’t control my destiny or I live on purpose. Now you told me you told call these declarations. What do you mean by that?

 

Darren Gold: (09:39)

Um, declarations are, um, really what I’m alluding to is the power of language. So oftentimes people think languages are medium for describing things, right? Which it is, and it does it, it serves a very important purpose. But there’s a part of language what is, which is generative, right? Where we declare something into existence. And so I use the word declarations intentionally. And the story I love to tell, which is a somewhat overused story, but I’ll tell it anyway and I think is one of the most important responsibilities of leaders is using language, particularly the declarative aspect of language very intentionally. And that that story is JFK. You know, when he declared we’re going to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade, he didn’t describe something, he declared something, he put something into existence. He declared a new future for people to live into such that the actions of an entire nation shifted.

 

Darren Gold: (10:32)

So declaration to me has a, there’s an important connotation to it. And the more that we can declare, the more we create a reality. And I, you know, like to say like, you know, we create our reality oftentimes through our language, whether it’s something spoken out loud or something that you’re saying to yourself in your head, right? So if you want to achieve extraordinary results in life, part of it is declaring those results with real congruence in the way you hold your body, uh, what you’re thinking. Um, and with massive certainty. And so that’s, that’s the, the reason why I use the word declaration.

 

Jim Rembach: (11:08)

And so if I am a particular type of person as we’re going through that, you know, differences in between the, the average and the extraordinary and I find myself declaring things from an average side, what do I need to do?

 

Darren Gold: (11:24)

Well, I think the first step is, um, is awareness and it’s really the, the first chapter is on awareness, right? I think this fundamental notion that, um, we construct a set of beliefs, values of rules subconsciously that are safety based, uh, what I call a program. And that that program automatically drives our behaviors and limits the results we get. Right? The awareness that, that, that, that is where oftentimes we’re operating from. And we never really knew. It is a profound realization, right? So the first step is just understanding, look, a lot of my life, I say in the book, I was a 40 year old man. I woke up one day realizing that I was being run by a program written by a seven year old boy. And that to me was a profound realization. Now I’d had cheated a lot of success and happiness and joy in my life, but I didn’t realize how much I was being run by a set of subconscious beliefs. And so step number one is just that realization. And then step number two is to say, okay, if I constructed these beliefs, this program, I can reconstruct it. Anything that’s constructed can be reconstructed. And the opportunity is I have an opportunity to be not run by a program, but to author, powerfully, author and intentionally author a code. Um, and the assertion I make in the book is that there really these 10 lines of code that matter most. And that’s the basis for each of the chapters.

 

Jim Rembach: (12:50)

Well, and also when you start talking about code coding, coding of man, coding of humanity, really this has been happening for thousands and thousands of years. I mean, this isn’t new. I mean for you, you’ve modernized it. And with the ability to, for us to connect with what may be going on inside of our heads from our thinking perspective. And one of the things I tell my kids all the time is that, you know, you can think whatever you want in your head. I said, but when it comes out of your mouth, you know, talking about that declaration, you may galvanize it. And so you have to be really aware, you know, of what you’re allowing to come through. But if we start talking about this overall coding component and coding element, and in in chapter six you had talk about and explain the Chinese symbol for listening. Uh, and, and I’ve never seen that happen, but for me it’s when you, it’s sorry, I started seeing the connection and the closing of the loop of this whole coding thing. It’s been going on forever. Just whether or not we’re being listening, somebody’s blind to Chinese symbol of listening.

 

Darren Gold: (13:50)

Yeah, sure. And you know, the one thing I’ll reference is the subtitle of my book, the art, wisdom and science of leading an extraordinary life. There is, um, you know, most of all, everything, it Canadian, my book has been around for thousands of years, right? Ancient wisdom. Uh, and oftentimes it’s Eastern wisdom, um, that is neglected by the West, um, in particularly in our businesses and our, and, and in leadership. And so part of the, part of the promise of the book is to integrate a lot of that is Eastern wisdom with our kind of Western scientific mind. Um, and one of the aspects in the book, this Chinese symbol of listening speaks to the power of listening. And I deconstruct, uh, in, in that chapter, in chapter six in the chapter, I seek to understand, um, how do we actually listen? Are we good listeners? And the reality is that most of our listening is about us, right?

 

Darren Gold: (14:44)

Uh, listening to make sure I’m right listening to make sure that I get my point across right. And we neglect, uh, the power of complete and true listening, which is to really let in with all of our faculties. Um, what the person speaking to us is sharing. And the Chinese recognize that, you know, thousands of years ago, imbedded in the symbol to listen is not just the ears, it’s the eyes, right? It’s the heart, right? And so in, in the very symbol for listen and in Chinese is this idea of totality, of listening, like really letting it in without regard to personal agenda with a complete surrender to the ego into the self. And, um, I invite the, the readers of the book to experiment with that. Um, and if you’ve ever been listened to in that way can be a transformative experience for you. And as we’re leading others, um, the opportunity is to, is to listen differently. And that’s, there’s a very powerful shift for people.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:45)

Well, for me, I mean, just looking at the symbol in the way that you’ve broken it down. I mean, I, I am, I think like most of us, uh, we try to seek connection through visualizations. I mean, you know, people say I’m a visual learner or the fact is we all are. If we can see, and even if you can’t and if you, I mean you still are, there’s something like that is happening still currently and in the brain to connect with other senses. So you have the ear, you eyes undivided attention and heart and those are all the components in this Chinese symbol for listen. Uh, and, and I think for all of us when we even start talking about the reactionary nature of our mind, um, you know, we can, our subconscious mind has already answered before it comes out period. Sometimes we’ve already formulated the response, you know, prior to the, the conclusion of the question maybe even before the question is asked.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:33)

Yeah. Uh, and I think if we stop and really pay attention and think about all those particular elements, I think our listening is going to have a significantly different outcome than it ever has before. And here’s the thing about it. I don’t think this is just the one on one thing. I think this is also an organization that wants to be more customer focused, uh, that wants to do a better job of understanding, you know, where to develop their next products, um, and where the marketplace is going. I think there’s so many different components into this that I think we can all break down and leverage from.

 

Darren Gold: (17:06)

Yeah, I totally agree. And you know, I was very conscious of my listening, right? Even as you were talking to me there. Um, it’s an, it’s, it’s an exquisite art and practice to really listen to somebody to really understand what are they trying to communicate to me without regard to my personal agenda and what I heard in your sharing was that, um, being able to do that one on one is one thing. Being able to do that outside, you know, with our customers, with our communities, um, as a whole has a whole other game. So there’s a huge amount of unlock that occurs when we change our relationship to listening and we become more conscious, right? We’re not driven right by, um, a way listening, but we cultivate and construct a different way of listening.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:53)

Well, and even as you were saying that, I started thinking about what we were talking about off Mike. When I start looking at, you know, your background and what you currently do right now and who you’re working with. I’m like, why this book? And I’m like, Oh,

 

Speaker 4: (18:06)

[inaudible]

 

Jim Rembach: (18:07)

to me, you probably are spending a significant portion of your activities and effort on these elements. Not, Hey, let’s make sure your strategy is right because these are the underlying and foundational components of whether or not it is

 

Darren Gold: (18:22)

that that’s absolutely true, right? This, this proceeds. And now we, I work with leaders, um, on strategy and culture of course, but, um, the most important part of a senior leader and senior leadership team is, are they going to be the leaders that are capable of executing that strategy effectively, right? And, uh, influencing an organization, um, inspiring a community of users. And it has to start with self-mastery, right? So the fundamental default of human beings is to externalize, right? Is to blame, is to want others to do things. And you know, Gandhi said, and he didn’t say it quite this way, but the shortened version is be the change you want to see in the world. And so the fundamental premise when I’m working with leaders is if you want to master others, if you want to influence others, if you want to get results from others, you have to start with yourself. And so the exploration starts inward. And at that point you’re now a completely different, um, leader in terms of how you think about your strategy and your ability to execute it.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:29)

Well. And another thing for me as I see, cause I, uh, have a, a um, a leadership Academy for frontline leaders and contact center operations, you know, and is that what you’re talking about right there? And that skill development is something that is needed also at the front line because it’s gotten to be a situation to where more responsibility and the importance of the decisions that are made as well as the, you know, the whole culture, uh, execution component. If that head is not connected with those people down at the front line, uh, you’re going to have a bunch of turmoil and your company’s overall at risk. So we talk about alignment, um, and knowledge who are listening to the show. You’ve heard me say we the head and the feet have to move together and I mean senior level leaders and the frontline leaders. And when that fall, when that filtering happens, if we’re only doing that investment and only doing that activity at the very top level, you can’t expect the organization to move. It ain’t gonna happen.

 

Darren Gold: (20:27)

No, that’s right. And I would say the starting point has to start with the top right. If you’ve got a leadership team and then an extended leadership team that’s embodying consistently and congruent Lee, a set of values, a set of beliefs, a set of behaviors that it wants to see throughout the organization, you’re going to create a massive amount of momentum. The mistakes I often see in organizations is, um, senior leadership team set out strategies and they develop cultures and they want their organization to be customer focused. They want their organization to take responsibility and accountability. They want all these things for others and yet the very things they want and others, they’re not practicing, uh, themselves. They want people to make commitments and to honor those commitments. And yet there’s a breakdown, uh, within the leadership team. So it’s impossible to expect a, an organization, particularly at scale, um, to model behaviors and get, take actions and get results that you want.

 

Darren Gold: (21:25)

If the senior leaders that are stewards of that organization aren’t completely embodying them in every single thing they do. And that’s really the premise of this book because whether it’s your leader or your business or your leader, your family, you want your children. I talk about this in chapter four. You may remember we both have three children. I want my children to be polite. I don’t tell them to be polite, right? I show up to a restaurant and I am, I am polite to the server. I opened the door for somebody that’s going into the restaurant before my family. Uh, I say thank you. Uh, at the end of the meal, the whoever was gracious enough to serve our meal and I give up the hope of trying to tell my T my, my, my, my children, anything I role model the behaviors I’d like to see in them. And that’s what we do when we’re leading, leading anything.

 

Jim Rembach: (22:15)

It’s so true. Yeah. One of the things that you also revealed in that same chapter, chapter six, where you break down the Chinese symbol for listening, is you introduce a, your leveraging of a PLO, that polarity map. If you could kind of explain what that is and why you use it.

 

Darren Gold: (22:31)

Yeah. So, um, we’re trained from a very early age to see the w the world shows up as problems to be solved. And even as you know, we were, you know, in, in our very earliest educational years, right? It’s a, B, C or D or all of the above, right? We’re in an either or world and our, our mind is trained that way and there are a lot of things that lend themselves truly to be problems to be solved. You know, do I hire Canada day or do I hire candidate B? Do I let my son go, uh, to the dance or do I not? Whatever. The, so there are plenty of situations that require a yes or no an either or decision. The reality is most of our issues in any part of our lives aren’t problems to be solved. Although we apply problems to be solved thinking either or thinking to them what they are.

 

Darren Gold: (23:22)

Uh, instead is, is natural and healthy tensions. Uh, we’ll just go back to our parenting example. Um, you know, you might have one parent if your, your co-parenting that says I that’s really strict. Uh, and once a whole children to, you know, a certain set of, of, of rules and another that’s, you know, really flexible and wants to create space for the children. If you’re in an either or mindset, forget it. And so the assertion in the second half of that chapter is something we’ll call polarity thinking. And again, this is ancient wisdom. The yen and the young was the essential embodiment of paradox or polarity. And in business you’re going to confront natural and healthy tensions all the time. Am I direct right and risk the relationship or am I kind and dilute? You know, the, the communication is a false dichotomy. Jim Collins talks about this a lot.

 

Darren Gold: (24:14)

Best businesses are ones that begin to see problems to be solved as natural and healthy tensions to be leveraged. And what I do in my work with a lot of leaders is I begin to expose or at least have them see and expose what are the tensions that are present in your organization? One company I’m working with right now has a cultural, um, issue where they have a strong preference for being deliberate. They have, quality is such an important value of theirs, but they over-focus on that to the neglect of being decisive and taking action. And they’re in, they’re stuck in an either or mindset. Either we take action quick and we, you know, we quality suffers or we focus intently on quality and we have to move slow. And the basic premise of polarity thinking is don’t, you didn’t, don’t need to hold it that way. Hold it as a natural, healthy tension that can be leveraged. What if it were possible to get all the benefits of quality focused on quality and all the benefits of being decisive and moving fast and rather than choosing one or the other UV and to integrate the polarity. And so there’s this notion of mapping a polarity and there’s a tool that I use in the book that’s, that allows people to map individual polarities direct versus kind is a, is a very common one. Um, and organizational players.

 

Jim Rembach: (25:35)

Well, even as you were describing that particular situation, I started thinking about it from if we take coding, it’s like computer programming and, and I have a, uh, you know, the system has worked a certain way. If I have and understand all of those things, I can just rewrite the code just a little bit to make an adjustment. So oftentimes we talk about the process. I mean, if you have a particular situation that is occurring, uh, in a, in a fashion by which it’s not acceptable to you, most oftentimes it’s the system. It’s not the people involved in the system. So while the, the, the people may prevent, you know, the change from occurring. But we, we, you know, that’s where the really the issue is we need to do something different. We can’t keep doing what we’ve always been doing and then therefore you could probably start experiencing, uh, some of those successes from both of those, but it’s not under the same system.

 

Darren Gold: (26:26)

Yeah. A lot of resistance to change comes from a preference for one poll versus another. And one of the things that you know, for people that are listening to this, that are interested in or responsible for organizational change, I will often say that the very way we talk about change induces the very resistance to change that we’re trying to avoid, right? So oftentimes we talk about from two shifts, we’ve got to move from this to this and that language, right? While very well intentioned and maybe even accurate, right? Sets yourself up for failure because what you’re doing is you’re saying that something is wrong and something’s right. This is a problem to be solved when in reality, organizational dynamics are far more complex, right? And the reality is if you look at it closely enough through a different lens with a different distinction, what you’ll see is wait a second.

 

Darren Gold: (27:19)

The from and the two are actually two really good things, right? The centralized and centralized, that’s the classic Elio that organizations go through. All right, and they hire consultants. They spend millions of dollars, they, they’re centralized for three years and then they’re decentralized. Well, what if you started to see it differently? Said, wow, there’s a lot of benefits from decentralized. We get to focus on, you know, the particular customer at the point of sale, we let our best people make decisions at the front lines, right? And there’s a lot of wisdom and value and benefit from being centralized. We have consistency, we have uniformity. We can hold ourselves to common standards. What if instead of moving back and forth or deciding between the two, we said, is there a way to integrate? And that is the breakthrough. And now you don’t induce resistance. You don’t say, Hey, we got to move from decentralized to centralized. The best companies in the world, the best families in the world, the best leaders in the world begin to see what used to be problems to be solved, right. To choose one or the other. And they begin to see the value of both and they begin to integrate them. And that is a, that’s a game changer.

 

Jim Rembach: (28:21)

Well, that’s a very, that’s very helpful. Um, and talking about the ancient wisdom, talking about, you know, the guidance, talking about being able to understand all the emotional aspects of it. One of the things that we look to on the show or quotes to help point us in the right direction. And you have several quotes in the book that you share, but is there one or two that kind of stand out for you that you can share with us?

 

Darren Gold: (28:41)

Sure. Uh, you know, I love the first quote of the book, uh, and it’s a quote from Epictetus who was a stoic philosopher. If any of your listeners are interested, that’s a stoicism is a misunderstood and incredibly valuable philosophy. And he says, no one is free, who is not master of his own mind. Um, and it points to this fundamental notion that if we want to achieve whatever it is that we want in life, in whatever part of life it is, we have to master ourselves. And we have to avoid the seductive temptation to look outwards, to fix others, right? To make others do things that we aren’t, you know, that they’re not doing. So this, that, that quote to me sort of, you know, just encapsulates the importance of self mastery. And I really, that’s what I’d probably know. Point to the other one, just if you’re asking for a second one is Victor Frankel’s quote.

 

Darren Gold: (29:35)

And if your listeners aren’t familiar with Victor Frankel, he wrote an incredible book called man’s search for meaning. He was a of a Holocaust, uh, um, concentration camp. And he, and he, um, he says the, you know, the last of the human freedoms is the ability to choose, uh, the, our attitude regardless of our circumstances. Um, and that sort of goes back to what I said about the human superpower. Here’s a man who is in the most unimaginable conditions. Um, and knew in that moment that he had a choice about the meaning he gave his circumstances. He could have been an absolute despair and given up or he could have seen the beauty even in those horrific circumstances. And he chose the latter and he not only survived, but he’s been, you know, his, his work has been been a gift to the world. And so that for me is the another really key point of how much choice we have in terms of the way we, uh, we view our circumstances.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:32)

Well, I’m talking about that, uh, choice, decision making, all of that. Um, we talk about getting over the hump on the show and, you know, just even reading your bio, you’ve had tons in your life if you hadn’t had to have gotten over in order to be where you are today. Um, but errors, is there one that you know, that you’re open to sharing that could really make a difference for everybody?

 

Darren Gold: (30:53)

Yeah. Um, you know, one of the one decision I made was, um, and I talk about this in chapter five. It’s one of the more personal and intimate and vulnerable, uh, chapters, uh, for me was the decision to forgive my mother and I, you know, use air quotes around forgive because even the word having to forgive somebody implies that they did something wrong. And I’ve gotten to a pretty profound place in my life where I’m no longer capable of holding grudges against people, even when you could argue objectively that they’ve done some wrong. And I, I can see that I said there were some things my mother did in her life, um, that were regrettable and certainly, um, I’m sure if you were alive today would, would agree. Um, but that has nothing to do with, um, my ability to forgive completely, unconditionally forgiven a way that actually implies nothing was done wrong in the first place.

 

Darren Gold: (31:47)

Right? And so, you know, I had a story for 40 years of my life that I was abandoned by my mother, and it was a narrative that I held, uh, with some pride. Like, look what I’ve accomplished. I didn’t have a mother. I got abandoned, right? She did all these horrible things. And, uh, when I got in touch with that, um, and it got in touch with it in a really remarkable place, which was inside Folsom prison, uh, in the maximum security section of Folsom prison where I was working with men inside, which is another remarkable experience and story. Um, I was able to see how, um, how disempowering that was, how unfair and unjust it was and how it wasn’t serving me and the letting go of that story for me, the absolute, uh, unconditional forgiveness, um, and in its place, all I had was love for my mother. She had passed by that, um, was a remarkable act of grace and humility and maturity, um, and effectiveness for me. So that would be one that I, that I chair

 

Jim Rembach: (32:52)

well and, and that kinda hits me. I lost my mother not too long ago. And um, you know, on the, and there’s some things where, you know, you’d, like you were saying, I wish certain things that could have been a little bit different certain ways. And, and I have a choice to make, right? Um, and finding peace with all that is a path, uh, that I also, you know, kind of forced myself to go down because I could have, like in the book, I could have been that average person that says, well, you know, this, that, and the other and it is what it is and you know, or I could actually move to a different place. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, my pleasure. Now when I think about the work that you’re doing, when I think about this book, and as I said, I was like, Oh, this is something quite different. But yet it isn’t. It’s that underlying foundational component. But I have to imagine that you have certain aspirations and goals associated with this piece of work. And then also for me, it’s like you mentioned 10, you know, is there an 11th code shadowing of that? But if you were to say you had one particular goal with this work and where you’re headed, what would it be?

 

Darren Gold: (33:57)

Uh, books have changed my life. I’m an avid reader. You know, I probably read 30 or 40 books a year, uh, and through through my life, um, they’ve shaped who I am. They shaped how I’ve seen myself, others in the world. And, um, I always had this subconscious desire, uh, to give back in the form of a book. Uh, and I talk a little bit about this. You remember my chapter on identity, right? My, the most powerful driver of human behavior is the desire to be consistent with one’s identity. And I was holding an identity that I’m not an author. Uh, and it was changing that identity that allowed me to read this book. It’s a write this book. And the, the goal and I get really clear about it was I wanted to give the gift, um, the gift that I had, uh, to share this body of wisdom, um, to others and have as many people read it as possible and have them have the reaction, um, that I’m humbled to hear you say you had, which you know, ranges from, Oh my God, I never knew this too.

 

Darren Gold: (34:58)

This was life changing. Or I want to give this to people that I love and that kind of feedback, which, you know, the book’s now been published for a little over three weeks has been coming in pretty consistently and it just fills my heart and speaks to my mission of, you know, wanting to, um, give back, uh, to have an impact in the world. And, and, you know, boy do we need it. Um, you know, given the world we’re living in today. So if it can have some small measure of impact, uh, I would be, I would be delighted and I’m going to do everything I can to create awareness of it so that people have an opportunity to read it.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:34)

And the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:40)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award, winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships. With our colleagues and your customers to learn more about an even better place to work. Visit [inaudible] dot com board slash better. All right, here we go. Fastly Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh, okay. Darren. The hump they hold on as a part of our show where you give us good insights. Facts. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Darren gold, are you ready to hold down? I’m ready to down. All right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? Oh, that is a great question. Part of it is

 

Darren Gold: (36:30)

got it all figured out. Uh, and I’ll say that, you know, vulnerably, right? So I would say that for me is my work challenge myself. Uh, cause I certainly don’t. And when I love that belief, um, to sit there subconsciously, I’ll get complacent.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:47)

What is the best leadership advice you ever received?

 

Darren Gold: (36:51)

Uh, best leadership advice. I sort of alluded to the power of creating a future for people to live into. The one thing I think leaders underestimate is their ability through the use of language to create futures. People are living into a future all the time, but they’re doing it from a default place and it’s usually past arrived great leaders. The most powerful, the most effective leaders are ones that have a vision and then generate possibility for people by declaring what that future is. If you can do that consistently on message, um, that’s the, the one piece of advice I got and give to leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:23)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Darren Gold: (37:29)

Uh, one of my secrets, um, I, uh, I believe in daily rituals and, uh, I often say that, um, the act of doing something every day without exception is the act of an extraordinary person. So I have a 10 minute ritual. I do every single morning. I set my alarm clock 10 minutes before I’m otherwise supposed to get up. And I do it unfailingly. I never miss a day.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:53)

And what is one of your tools that you help believes lead you in business

 

Darren Gold: (37:57)

for life? Uh, my tools, my identity. So, um, we, we talked a little bit about this. Everybody’s got an identity. Most of us have a subconscious identity. We haven’t really examined. One of the tools, uh, that I offer is, um, reconstruct your identity, cause your, the actions you take will be a manifestation of the beliefs you hold about yourself. So I have an identity statement and I say that identity statement every single day, multiple times a day with a lot of emotional and physical, uh, intensity. And for me that, that primes me for the day. Um, but it helps me deliver the kind of results that I want.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:33)

Talking about that coding and programming, you’re doing it all the time, right? Yeah, exactly. Okay. So what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to master your code on your show notes page as well.

 

Darren Gold: (38:46)

Yeah. Uh, probably a book, not many people have heard about a failure of nerve by Edwin Friedman. It’s the number one leadership book other than humbly my book, uh, that I would recommend, uh, recommend to people. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s awesome.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/darren gold. Okay, Darren, this is my last hump. Hold on. Question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you could take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Darren Gold: (39:23)

Um, the one of the most profound, uh, breakthroughs for me was this notion of a responsible mindset. And, uh, I make the distinction between a victim mindset, which is the world happens to me. Circumstances shaped me. There’s very little I can do to affect my situation. Responsible mindset is the opposite. There’s always something I can do to affect every situation. And I go even further to say, you’re 100% responsible for your life. And, um, I think I had a little bit of that when I was 25, but boy would I have loved to have under really embodied and understood that distinction.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:57)

Darren, I had fun with you today. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you?

 

Darren Gold: (40:01)

I’ve got a website, uh, www dot Darren J gold, D a R R E N J G O L d.com and then my from the trim group trim group.com is a great resource as well.

 

Jim Rembach: (40:14)

Jared gold, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 254: Darren Gold: Master your code appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Darren Gold Show Notes Page Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code. Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code.
Darren was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, a suburb of Los Angeles, at the age of 8. His parents divorced shortly after moving to the US, and Darren grew up with his father in a one-bedroom apartment.
Darren was raised on the edge of poverty, surrounded by crime and addiction. Both his father and mother spent intermittent times in jail. Darren was determined at an early age to break out of this cycle, and was the first in his family to attend college. He went to UCLA where he supported himself and his father by working full time while attending school. Working as a copy boy in a law firm blocks from the UCLA campus convinced Darren to attend law school.
He graduated from The University of Michigan Law School and began his career as an attorney. He soon realized that he loved law school but didn’t feel the same way about the practice of law. He left legal practice after a year and a half and joined the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. He then went on to serve as a Partner at two San Francisco private equity firms where he sat on the boards of dozens of companies and was responsible for investing and managing hundreds of millions of dollars of capital. About a decade into this part of his career, Darren became the CEO of one of the companies for which he was serving as a board director.
After serving as CEO of two companies, Darren joined the Trium Group, an elite management consulting firm focused on the intersection of strategy execution and human performance. As a Managing Partner of Trium, Darren is an executive coach, advisor, and consultant to the CEOs and leadership teams of many of the world’s best-known organizations, including Roche, Dropbox, Lululemon, Sephora, Cisco, eBay, Activision, and Warner Bros.
His clients describe him as a visionary, transformational change agent. Darren is the author of Master Your Code: The Art, Wisdom, and Science of Leading an Extraordinary Life. A groundbreaking guide for rewriting your program and mastering every aspect of your life.
Darren currently lives in the Bay Area with his wife of 24 years and his youngest son. His two oldest children are currently in college studying business at SMU in Dallas, Texas and musical theater at Montclair State University in New Jersey.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @darrenjgold to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“Everybody has the opportunity to live an extraordinary life.” – Click to Tweet
“We have far more potential than we may otherwise believe.” – Click to Tweet
“The default way of being human is to hold a certain set of beliefs that were designed to keep us safe, not to thrive.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15777 https://www.fastleader.net/marylippitt/#comments https://www.fastleader.net/marylippitt/feed/ 2 <p>Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking. Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/marylippitt/">253: Mary Lippitt: Target what matters when it matters</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early years were spent in New Haven, CT; Lincoln, NE; Schenectady NY; Arlington VA; Paris, France; and Bethesda MD.  As the daughter of a minister, she moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed.

As an adult, Mary has lived in Buffalo, NY, Bartlesville, OK, Miami Fl, Bethesda MD (again), and now in Tampa Bay, Fl. And over the years, she worked for county government, an international electronics firm, and as director of a university’s master of human resources program.

These divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way we develop our leaders. We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual; their personal style, traits, and competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked.  Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues.  In Mary’s book, Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When It Matters, she offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration, that produce results.

Mary founded Enterprise Management Limited in 1984 and has served public, private, and non-profit clients interested in boosting critical thinking, the bottom line, and engagement. In the US, she has partnered with Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, SAIC, the US Department of Energy, and the US Marine Corps.  She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France, and Kuwait.

The role Mary enjoys the most is being a grandmother to her two grandsons, and she apologies to her daughter for making this statement. But grandparenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent.

Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her many travel adventures.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @marylippitt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet 

“You could deliver results and still care about people.” Click to Tweet 

“Kindness and results are not exclusive to each other; you could do both.” Click to Tweet  

“The success rate of change is dismal because the change agents don’t listen.” Click to Tweet  

“A mindset is a temporary point of view; it is not genetic or a personal style.” Click to Tweet  

“When I focus, I can achieve something.” Click to Tweet  

“If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions.” Click to Tweet  

“Change is probable, pervasive, problematic, and promising.” Click to Tweet  

“Change is where we’re going to have new opportunities, but we may not like the process of having to go through that change.” Click to Tweet  

“By the time I’m being forced I have fewer options. As long as I’m proactive I have more to choose from.” Click to Tweet  

“Leadership today is about asking the right questions, it’s not about having all the right answers.” Click to Tweet  

“No one has all the right answers, the world is too complex.” Click to Tweet  

“The focal point is important because that creates the common ground.” Click to Tweet  

“I realized, when you think differently from me you help me.” Click to Tweet  

“Instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, what can I learn.” Click to Tweet  

“I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realize no one does.” Click to Tweet  

“Our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow.” Click to Tweet  

Hump to Get Over

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Advice for others

Learn to be able to say you do not know.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

I like to follow new ideas that sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goals.

Best Leadership Advice

Listen, persevere, and respect others.

Secret to Success

I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions.

Best tools in business or life

I use a situational mindset checklist.

Recommended Reading

Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When it Matters

Thinking, Fast and Slow

The Art Of War

Contacting Mary Lippitt

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marylippitt/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/marylippitt

Website: https://enterprisemgt.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

253 Mary Lippitt episode

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have somebody on the show who is really going to give us some greater understandings and frameworks on how to be significantly more effective. Dr Mary lipids early years were spent in new Haven, Connecticut, Lincoln, Nebraska, Schenectady, New York, Arlington, Virginia, Paris, France in Bethesda, Maryland as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

nd as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:07)

We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual, their personal style or their traits and their competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked. Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues in Mary’s book, situational mindsets targeting what matters when it matters. She offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration that produces results. Mary founded enterprise management limited in 1984 and has served public, private and nonprofit clients interested in boosting critical thinking and bottom line and engagement in the U S she has partnered with bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, S a I see the us department of energy and the U S Marine Corps. She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France and Kuwait. The role Mary enjoys the most is bringing a grandmother to her grandsons and she apologizes to her daughter for making the statement, but grand Parenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent. Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her travel excursions, Mary lipid. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? Thank you. I’m really glad you’re here and I’m really excited to talk about this particular topic. But I think before we get into that, I think it’s extremely important for you to explain who is Kate Hollander?

 

Mary Lippitt: (02:33)

Kate Hollander is the new head of sales at a printing company in Denver. And she walks into a situation where her staff really would prefer that she would not be there because they would wanted her job. The sales are declining rapidly. There are silos between the organizations in the, uh, between, uh, sales production and she, the owner is a micromanager. So she has a lot or plate from the get go. And the story talks about how she’s resolves this by delivering results, but also at the same time by making sure that people are engaged and respect it. What I’m trying to show in this story of Kate is that you could deliver results and still care about people. You know, kindness and results are not exclusive to each other. You can do both. And that this is what Kate shows people how to deliver results, but to work well together

 

Jim Rembach: (03:38)

well, and to give this even more justice. What you did is really set a very important setting and how Kate actually goes about her work when you talk about her being a medic. So if you could explain that a little bit, I think that’s a really good foundational elements to kind of help give people some understanding and context when we get into this discussion about these situational mindsets.

 

Mary Lippitt: (04:02)

Okay. Kate had been in sales before for a medical device manufacturer, but after nine 11, she chose to serve in the military and serve as a medic. So she’s coming off of tours in the middle East and she’s accepted a job in an industry that she is not familiar with. And so she knows about sales, but her recent experience is really in middle East and being a medic rather than a sales person. So there’s a lot of discounting her, uh, stereotypes about, you know, what can she do for us and you know, she’s younger than we are and all sorts of other aspects. Cloud, uh, the initial impression of her, uh, what really happens is that there is actually the restaurant next to her, the printing business, there’s an explosion. And then they see her in action and they realize a couple of things. Not only is she very decisive, but she also, no one knows when to step back.

 

Mary Lippitt: (05:08)

She handles the triage effectively. She directs people clearly and with respect, no panic. But when the emergency medical people arrive, she knows to step back. So this is not someone who is really out to, to, to, to look like on the hero. Uh, she works well with others and people realize, well she goes have some skills, maybe she doesn’t know a lot about printing yet. And the, she has to balance a reality that the owner of the business is pushing her go, go, go, go. And she recognizes that the sales have been going down for a while. So it isn’t just a motivational thing. There really are some other aspects. So she uses her honeymoon period just to sit back and do some analysis of what it is that’s really happening. And in that process she recognizes that, that her staff is using a transactional approach, just get the sale and move on.

 

Mary Lippitt: (06:11)

And she knows that customer service, uh, as you would know, well, requires a lot more than that. And she talks to the team and helps them come up with a ability to tailor their interactions with their potential clients to make sure that they have a solid sale and one that survives the actual first, um, order to deliver additional orders. And, and this is really resisted at first because after all, she doesn’t know the printing business and, you know, why should we change? We would be doing it this way for so long. And so she actually takes a step back and instead of trying to, um, demand, um, compliance, she actually works with her staff. She goes on sales calls with them, she doesn’t try to upstage them and she shows very early, they sh that she is trying to help them because she’s identified what their major problems are within the organization and she tackles those right away to gain some early wins to build the confidence that she really is going to be someone that helps them.

 

Mary Lippitt: (07:21)

So there’s a lot going on that she’s trying to juggle. And I should mention that she got this job because the vice-president charge of operations for title’s vice president of sales was someone she worked with in the military. So he was her advocate and the owner was a little reluctant to hire. She didn’t have the Printy experience. And again, he was hit the deck running nose down to the grindstone kind of guy. And, and so this, um, strong recommendation is, is the reason that she got the job, but the welcome was a little bit lukewarm.

 

Jim Rembach: (07:56)

Well, but you also talk about that and everything that you described there and the competing forces associated with this. So there’s, you know, the situations of threat from outside, um, you know, all the marketplace, you know, pressures, you talk about the internal culture, uh, you talk about, you know, uh, people trying to silo, you know, uh, protect, I mean, all of these different factors that I think everybody can relate to in so many different ways. And, and so then you start explaining this whole really how you navigate all of this and how Kate navigates all this. And that is in the situational mindset model. So if you could talk about the, the six components or elements of the situational mindset model because of if you just take them by word, um, you could potentially be misled and I think you need to explain them a little bit.

 

Mary Lippitt: (08:43)

Okay. There, there are six mindsets. Let me just preface my comments by people say, Oh, there’s gotta be more than that. I will remind people that there are three primary colors and we get lots cubes. There are seven musical notes, so we get lots of melodies. So having six is not as outrageous as it may seem. So let me identify the six. The first is I call inventing. It is a focus on what are the new products we should consider, uh, what are the new technologies that we can apply? What are the synergies that we can create internally or externally? So this is a focus on making sure that you are offering the products that are state of the art. And we do know that, you know, certain companies really go out of their way to make sure that they are state of the art, you know, whether it’s an Apple or or whatever organization it is.

 

Mary Lippitt: (09:38)

Having that reputation really is a discriminating factor for many customers. So that’s the first one. The second one is very customer oriented, calling it the catalyzing mindset. And in this mindset we’re looking at who our key customers, how can we increase our customer base, how can retain our customers, how can we provide them with customer service? What are the emerging customer needs? So both the first two are very external to the organization. They’re looking at technology and new ideas. They’re looking at the customer, which is obviously external. And those are really what I would call the entrepreneurial stages, the small business getting started. And then there’s a shift from the external point of view to looking at the organization. And I know you’re very familiar with the fact that organizations can grow rapidly, but sometimes there’s a lot of chaos in that growth. And so the third mindset is called the developing mindset.

 

Mary Lippitt: (10:41)

And it takes a look at how should we be organized? Should we be functional matrix, geographic product, whatever. But it’s also establishing, you know, what are our policies? What’s our pay policy, what’s our, uh, our policy on promotions. It’s taking a look at what are the systems that we need? How is information going to flow? What are the decision making practices we have? So it’s what I’ll call a macro orientation to how we function. And this is the orientation that says let’s take a look at our goals and make sure that we’re doing the right thing rather than just doing things right. So that’s the third one. The fourth one is also internal look, but it’s more of a micro look. Then the infrastructure develop a mindset. We call that the performing mindset. And in this mindset, what we take a look at are things like process improvement, a quality improvement, workflow analysis, facility layout improvement, um, return on investment, meeting the budget, uh, vendor management, supply chain management, all of the, the, the adjustments, the tweaking, the polishing of a work flow.

 

Mary Lippitt: (11:57)

And of course, you know, that is where we get the efficiency. So this is a very efficiency but quality oriented mindset. So the, the fifth mindset is still internal, but it’s taking look at the people is taking a look. What is a talent we have? Do they have the right competencies? How do we retain them? Do we have good collaboration? Do we have engagement? Do we have a succession plan? Do we have an agile culture? Are we change ready? Uh, are we proud of ourselves or do we set, have a sense of commitment and loyalty. All of the without broadly call the people and culture aspects. And, and again, some people tend to discount this area and I would just like to remind people that Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So this although may not have the pazazz of a customer sale, uh, if you don’t keep your sales people, if you don’t have the right compensation system for them, if they’re not proud of your product, they will stay with you.

 

Mary Lippitt: (13:03)

And you call that the protecting mindset. Why protecting? Because it’s protecting what we’ve achieved in terms of our product, our customers, our infrastructure and our processes. So it’s protecting all that we’ve built so far. And this is a very proud, you know, stage. And in that every one of these stages has many advantages, but many also disadvantages. And what can happen with protecting is that I’m so proud of what I’ve got. I won’t change. You know, we’ve, we’ve perfected everything, don’t mess with success. And the sixth and final mindset is taking a look at the trends that we need to adjust to. It’s called the challenging mindset because it’s challenging what we’ve already established. And this is taking a look at new initiatives, new business opportunities that we may have. It takes a look at maybe new business models. And again, just talking about the printing industry for a second.

 

Mary Lippitt: (14:04)

You know, there was a time when people would say, no one, no one will ever buy a book without being able to go to a store, open the book and look at, you know, but nobody will buy the book. Um, and I will say that Amazon has such, uh, show them how false that assumption was. So the challenging mindset looks at business models changing the strategy, adapting the strategy. It also takes a look at what of some potential new partnerships that we should go after. What are the kinds of alliances we should make? You know, it’s taking a look at positioning the organization for the future. There’s a lovely quote from Mark Twain that, you know, if you’re on the right track, that’s great, but you just stay there, you’re going to get run over. And the challenging mindset is going to tell you this is, you know, an opportunity to continue to grow.

 

Mary Lippitt: (14:56)

We don’t have to throw the baby out with the bath water. What we really can do is take what we’ve done well expanded, prepare us. We have to be an organization that sustains itself. So those are the six. And again, three of them are internally focused. The developing, the performing and the protecting. And three of them are really externally focused. The challenging, which is looking at the trends, you know, what does the demographic difference mean for us? Uh, what does it mean? You know, that the interest rates are lower than we had anticipated. All those things have to be considered. So the challenging, the inventing and the catalyzing mindset look more externally. And what’s really interesting is most change agents are looking at challenging, inventing and catalyzing. And we know that the success rate of change is dismal. And that’s because the change agents get so excited about their idea that they don’t listen to the other mindsets that people have. And again, a mindset is a temporary point of view. It is not genetic, it is not a personal style. It say I’m going to do what I think is most important. And um, historically we had something called faster, cheaper and better and we would say, you know, do it faster and then it will obviously be cheaper. No, not necessarily. So this framework in the largest, that faster, cheaper, better into a more comprehensive analysis.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:25)

No, but I think you bring up a really interesting point, right? So it’s, I have these six elements and as you were explaining them, I started thinking about all these different subsets. So I’m like, okay, I’m an organization and it was all as you, if you, if you still even thinking about that from a champion perspective, they can’t focus on everything. It’s just not possible. The whole, you know, multitasking myth is, is quite true. While we have to do a lot of things, uh, it doesn’t mean that we can focus on a lot of things. So when you start talking about choosing and choosing, which mindset, how do you go about doing that?

 

Mary Lippitt: (16:57)

Well, the first thing is you have to do a comprehensive analysis of your situation. And the term, the title of the book is talking about mindset, which is a present orientation. What’s, what am I facing now? But instead of having it be your mindset about myself and my own capabilities, it’s doing an awareness of the actual situation that I’m confronting. And so I would love to do six things simultaneously, but, but I know that I can’t text and drive, so I have to become aware of my limitations. And that’s not a bad thing because when I focus, I can achieve something. If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions. I haven’t really analyzed everything and I’ll come across as someone who is a chameleon. First she wants this, then she wants that kind of thing. So we have to make choices.

 

Mary Lippitt: (17:50)

But those choices are not permanent. I think people resisted a choice because they thought, okay, this is gonna be a five year plan or a 10 year plan and what we have now is the speed of change is coming so fast that we could do one priority to time complete it and move on to another. There was a lovely story about the fact that if you’re driving a car, you adjust your position, your hands, your eyes, every nine seconds and you know, this is the rate of change and change is probable, pervasive, problematic and promising. So you know, the change is where we’re going to have new opportunities that we may not like the process of having to go through that change, but we’re going to have to to be successful.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:40)

Well, and I think as you said that there’s one thing for me that I think is kind of stands out as that I would rather be proactive and rather it be voluntary than be forced.

 

Mary Lippitt: (18:49)

Yes. Because by the time I’m being forced, I have fewer options as long as I’m proactive, I have more to choose from.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:57)

Yeah. That’s funny that you say that. My daughter right now is a, uh, in high school and she’s a junior and I’m like, you need to start looking at schools. I said, because if you don’t do that, because she’s also an athlete, I said, you know, you have to start creating relationships that you surely should have already been building. If you want a roster spot, you know that it’s all about relationships these days. I mean, they, yes, they look at the athleticism and you know, athletic abilities, but they also want to make sure they’re finding the right cultural fit. It’s become so darn important. You’re, you’re going to be left with whatever the scraps are if you don’t get moving.

 

Mary Lippitt: (19:31)

And one of the things she should be considering is getting tapes of her in action. I mean, there are things that she could do now to help her, you know, identify the coaches that she might want to send information to, you know, and maybe even look at those where she can get on the roster and maybe also look at those where she could get a scholarship. So, I mean it looks like it’s far off to just somebody, but, but there are things we can do now to position ourselves well for the future.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:58)

That’s right. And that’s just exactly what we’re talking about as far as, you know, really being able to, okay, now I understand this framework, uh, and then I need to go about the choosing process, but I need to master this. I mean, because I need to be proactive with it. I cannot be reactive. I’m going to lose choices and options. I’m going to be the one being disrupted instead of being the disruptor. And so I have to master it. So now it’s a master. You talk about really two key key elements. There’s probably more if they are, please explain them. But you talk about focal points and guiding questions. Explain them.

 

Mary Lippitt: (20:30)

Well, I think I w w I would say is the guided questions are helping us identify all the information first. Because what happens is the, sometimes we have an idea but we don’t really test it out. Is this really the best option I have? So the questions become a checklist to make sure I’ve collected the data from everyone. And again, one of my assumptions is that leadership today is about asking the right questions. It’s not about having all the right answers cause no one has all the right answers. The world is too complex. So getting the questions surfaces the data so then I can evaluate it and set my priority or the focal point. But then I can also communicate that focal point by explaining exactly why this is the most important thing to tackle at this point in time.

 

Jim Rembach: (21:21)

Well I think the importance here too is that, okay, so I need to learn this framework. I need to have stir start working on mastering this framework because I do have to decide faster and I can’t just decide based off of what I’ve known or even what others are doing. Because if I look at these situations, um, there, there’s that unique DNA that starts actually revealing itself and that’s what I have to work with.

 

Mary Lippitt: (21:45)

Correct. I think the only thing I would say is that the, I have to keep reminding people that a mindset is a very temporary thing. So just to say it, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s fun following what the current priority or issue is, but it isn’t a permanent label of what I will always choose. Uh, you mentioned that I lived in Buffalo, New York and it’s in a, in a hurricane over in Florida or blizzard in Buffalo, New York. You don’t care what the background, whether somebody graduated from, uh, you know, in engineering or someone graduated in art. If they can help you get out of the storm, you say, thank you. So the focal point is important because that creates the common ground that creates the teamwork that makes things happen. And it could be a very temporary thing. I mean I can, if I’m in a blizzard and I, I can’t even open my car door cause it’s frozen and somebody tells me how to do it, you know, I’m thankful but I’ve learned it, I’ll move on. So I’m talking about a mindset is a very, very temporary assessment of what is most important to do. But that temporary assessment is going to help me set the priority, which means I can focus and achieve the results.

 

Jim Rembach: (23:05)

Yeah. We have to have that built in agility. Right. Okay. So you all off, you know, through our, our discussion here, um, used many different co quotes and those are absolutely focal points. You know, they point us in the right direction and we really, you know, look at those on the fast leader show and share them a lot. So is there one or two they’re all riddled throughout your book? You’ve mentioned a few, but it’s are kind of one or two that stand out for you as focal points.

 

Mary Lippitt: (23:31)

Well, I think there’s one from Ben Franklin. I like that. Just something like, Oh, if you stop, if you don’t think creatively you, it’s like giving up your, your, your future, your life. I it thinking is critical to our life and it gets a bad name, particularly the term critical thinking. Cause it sounds like I have to be a cynic or I have to be, you know, poking somebody in, putting up shortfalls. But really critical thinking, you know, it could be as subtle as, would you want me to investigate this aspect of this? You know, and people say yes. So you can be very comprehensive in your analysis without being, you know, a naysayer or a problem child kind of thing.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:19)

Now it’s interesting that you say that. I mean a lot of people may say, well it’s just semantics but it’s semantics are critically important. I’m sorry. I think give us context and they give us understanding. It’s like we’ve built a fide so many different words in our society that, you know, if we would have used them just a hundred years ago would have had a totally different, you know, context. I mean, I often refer to the one of ignorant and if you look it up, it just says innocent, unknowing. But yet if anything is labeled as ignorant, it is vilified. And that’s just, that’s just unfortunate. Now when we start talking about these, these transformations, these transitions, these learnings and all that stuff, I mean we talk about getting over the hump on the show. Um, and those personal stories of when we had those experiences can be so helpful for others. I just was telling my daughter the other day, I said, even though you may not want to hear my stories, you know, if you actually work to listen, seeing that we’re very similar in the way that we go about thinking, maybe you’ll gain some insight for yourself, you know, choose a better path. Of course she doesn’t want to hear that from dad. But, um, is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

Mary Lippitt: (25:26)

Yes. Um, early in my career I thought rational analysis would always win the day. And I was trying to influence up, uh, the chain of command and I got rejected and I couldn’t believe it. I was dumbfounded. And it wasn’t until I got a task I was, we had a, this was a large organization, we had about 30,000 employees and I got tasked with writing the head executives monthly column to the employees. So I got to sit down and talk with him. And we saw things very differently as what was a priority and how we analyzed it was very different. Now if you’re writing the top executive, you got to adjust your thinking to his point of view. Obviously extra. I write something, he’s going to review it, he’s going to edit it. He would rather not have to edit it heavily. So I hadn’t, I had to start opening my own mind.

 

Mary Lippitt: (26:32)

I have to tell you, I was convinced sometimes that I had more answers than I really had and I thought I saw things more clearly than I really did. Um, there’s, there’s a comment, you know, what you see is not all there is. And I, that was my opening to begin to recognize I didn’t see everything and all the facts that I thought I had had many gaps but I’d never had collected them. So that exercise of writing for him really showed me how differently people fought. And again, we tend in our society to say, if you think differently from me, you’re wrong. And, um, what I realized was when you think differently from me, you helped me. You helped me, I benefit from these differences. And so instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, you know, what can I learn? How do they see reality?

 

Mary Lippitt: (27:31)

What am I missing? And you know, there’s lots of stories about, you know, witnesses to car accidents and you know, everybody saw the same accident but they recall different things. That’s what we have to recognize in our organizations. People are going to focus on different things. Some will get the right, so we’ll get the wrong, but we’ve got at least collect them before we can evaluate them. And that was how I started to realize there really was, um, great wisdom that I was missing. And so I really learned the importance of asking more questions rather than asking just a couple of, you know, jumping into my conclusions, which I was fairly sure I was right. Um, I mean this is basically the confirmation bias. I collected the information that supported my point of view. And sometimes I remind people that at one point in time bankers said you could give a 95% mortgage because home prices never go down more than 5%. That was a false assumption. And so I’m beginning to become maybe is more humble because I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realized that no one does. And so this is why we need to work together. And so I think we could work together to produce results. But we also, when we work together, we show respect for another person. We showed that we value them and we therefore engage them and we get the kind of collaboration and teamwork that makes our jobs very satisfying.

 

Jim Rembach: (29:03)

Well, the only way that it does that though, Mary, is because if we have, you know, very useful frameworks because otherwise all of that diversity and different perspectives are going to not enable us to move forward. And that’s why I’m really glad that you’ve actually shared these situational mindset models and everything else that goes with it. So when I start looking at that and looking at the, you know, where you’ve been in the work that you’ve done in the work that you’re still yet to do, when I start thinking about some of the goals you have, um, I’d like to hear one, what is one goal that you have?

 

Mary Lippitt: (29:37)

I would like to expand our definition of leadership to include making sure that we balance the short and the longterm and the ability to gain active support from others. I think that our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow and I value everything we’ve done in the past. Um, just it, my uncle Ronald lipid with Kurt Loland did the very first leadership study in 1938 it was called the Lou and liquid white study and they came up with laissez Faire leadership and all that. And I really think everything that we’ve done in leadership has been fantastic, uh, whether it’s group dynamics, whether it’s emotional intelligence, whether it’s style, whatever else. But I think we’ve left out our situational ability to, to deliver, uh, the best for the organization. So I really would like to expand how we look at leadership

 

Jim Rembach: (30:43)

and this world of customer centric transformation. And you know, I’m a digital transformation and all of that. This type of leadership is really bottled to not just the success of an organization, but the existence of an organization and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com for slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay Mary, the hump day. Hold on as a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to be as give us robust yet rapid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Mary rib lipid. Are you ready to hoedown all right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Mary Lippitt: (31:55)

I like to so much to look at new ideas, but sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goal so I can become distracted and I need to re remember it again. What is my priority today?

 

Jim Rembach: (32:14)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:18)

Listen, persevere and respect others.

 

Jim Rembach: (32:24)

What do you believe is one of your secrets that helps you contribute to your success?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:29)

I think I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions.

 

Jim Rembach: (32:33)

And what is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:38)

I a situational mindset checklist. It’s a basically reminding me what questions I need to ask and those questions can be tailored to the level of the organization or the type of industry. So that really helps me. And I know that some people discount the, the, the importance of a checklist, but I’ll say lawyers, doctors, pilots and Santa Claus. You checklist

 

Jim Rembach: (33:04)

and what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to situational mindsets on your show notes page as well.

 

Mary Lippitt: (33:14)

Well, I think the Daniel Kahneman’s thinking fast and slow is absolutely fantastic book. And I also will give a shout out to the art of war, my son zoo many, many years ago, which again talked about the importance of learning the lay of the ground. And that’s what I’m talking about with situationals concepts.

 

Jim Rembach: (33:34)

Okay. Fast, literally. And you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/mary lipid. Okay, Mary, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have no back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Mary Lippitt: (33:57)

I would take back the ability to say I do not know. And the that leads to my willingness, um, to ask the questions and again, engage people and make a better decision. I really, I think for a while thought I do not know, was demeaning of me when I now realize it is showing the fact that I understand the complexity of this world.

 

Jim Rembach: (34:24)

Mary, I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the fast leader Legion how they can connect with you?

 

Mary Lippitt: (34:30)

Uh, they can connect with me at Mary, at situational mindsets.com or www, situational mindsets.com

 

Jim Rembach: (34:39)

Mary lipid, thank you for sharing and knowledge and wisdom. Fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 253: Mary Lippitt: Target what matters when it matters appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and sh... Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.
Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early years were spent in New Haven, CT; Lincoln, NE; Schenectady NY; Arlington VA; Paris, France; and Bethesda MD.  As the daughter of a minister, she moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed.
As an adult, Mary has lived in Buffalo, NY, Bartlesville, OK, Miami Fl, Bethesda MD (again), and now in Tampa Bay, Fl. And over the years, she worked for county government, an international electronics firm, and as director of a university’s master of human resources program.
These divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way we develop our leaders. We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual; their personal style, traits, and competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked.  Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues.  In Mary’s book, Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When It Matters, she offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration, that produce results.
Mary founded Enterprise Management Limited in 1984 and has served public, private, and non-profit clients interested in boosting critical thinking, the bottom line, and engagement. In the US, she has partnered with Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, SAIC, the US Department of Energy, and the US Marine Corps.  She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France, and Kuwait.
The role Mary enjoys the most is being a grandmother to her two grandsons, and she apologies to her daughter for making this statement. But grandparenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent.
Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her many travel adventures.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @marylippitt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet 
“You could deliver results and still care about people.” – Click to Tweet 
“Kindness and results are not exclusive to each other; you could do both.” – Click to Tweet  
“The success rate of change is dismal because the change agents don’t listen.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15754 https://www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski/feed/ 0 <p>Jack Modzelewski Show Notes Page Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things. Jack [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski/">252: Jack Modzelewski: Talk is Chief</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Jack Modzelewski Show Notes Page

Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things.

Jack grew up in a Chicago suburb with his working-class parents and two older brothers. His father worked for in security for General Electric. His mother, a Polish immigrant, came to the U.S. before WW II. His parents wanted him to be a teacher. But Jack had larger ambitions when he graduated from the University of Illinois with a bachelor’s degree in communications.

Jack’s early job experience started at age 11, first delivering newspapers and caddying and then clerking in a wholesale goods business. As a teenager, he wanted to be a journalist, like one of his older brothers. He worked as a reporter on his high school and his university newspapers, and also college summers for a local newspaper.

After college his first job was an account executive for a prestigious New York ad agency founded by men who went on to serve as a governor and a U.S. senator, respectively. But Jack found the Mad Men world of advertising limiting, so he pursued his first love – journalism. He earned a Master’s degree in Journalism at Northwestern University. He then worked as an award-winning reporter covering government and politics in Illinois.   During that time, he also hosted a public affairs radio show on a Chicago hard rock station.

He made the transition to public relations when he accepted a job thinking he would “try PR” for a year. That was the first of his 33 years working for international public relations firms and advising dozens of clients. Jack spent the last 26 years of his agency career with Fleishman Hillard, a leading global communications firm.

Most recently he was president of the Americas with responsibility for FH’s largest group of regions and its 1,800 people. Earlier in his FleishmanHillard career he spent years as president overseeing its offices in Europe. At FH his teams won many prestigious awards, including a Gold Lion with client General Motors at the Cannes Festival for Creativity, and Global Agency of the Year from PRWeek. Jack has attended five World Economic Forums in Davos, Switzerland, and has spoken at WEF conferences on four continents.

Jack is now chief executive of JackKnifePR, which provides communication advisory services to corporations, start-ups, and non-profit organizations. In his book Talk is Chief – Leadership, Communications and Credibility in a High-Stakes World, Jack shares with current and future leaders his life-long experiences advising organizational chiefs on messaging, media, marketing, crisis management, and stakeholder relationships.

Jack also serves his community as the board chairman of the Better Government Association and is a co-chair for Northwestern University’s capital campaign. In 2015, he was inducted into the Medill Hall of Achievement at Northwestern.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @JackKnifePR1 to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet 

“I don’t think leaders really think in those terms that 90% of their day is spent talking and communicating.” – Click to Tweet 

“In a major leadership position, people pay attention to what you say every day.” – Click to Tweet  

“Leadership communication is so important, especially in this day and age because it is so transparent.” – Click to Tweet  

“If people listen to someone talk for 20 minutes and they tune out, then the communicator failed.” – Click to Tweet  

“People have to take a look at their own communication style and methods and practices and be judged by others that they’re trying to communicate with.” – Click to Tweet 

“In these times, people expect information very fresh right after things happen.” – Click to Tweet 

“Leaders and their organizations can prepare by making sure that a lot of people are vigilant about things that could happen.” – Click to Tweet 

“Often a crisis starts out as a smaller issue that’s been ignored or neglected.” – Click to Tweet 

“You have to keep calm and make decisions and make them as quickly as you can with the best information you can and just keep going.” – Click to Tweet  

“Communication on a daily basis is important. It’s a management function. It’s a strategic function of organizations.” – Click to Tweet 

“When someone says, well, you know, you’ve got to communicate better, they kind of take that for granted.” – Click to Tweet 

“These days there are high expectations on organizations from their constituents on what is their purpose and are they really delivering on it?” – Click to Tweet  

“What’s in our DNA that makes us a little different from that company, is something that a lot of organizations struggle with.” – Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things.

Advice for others

Stay calm in times of crisis.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Time. We’re all constrained by time and I’m the type of person who likes to stay on top of so many things and it seems like there’s not enough time in a day to do that.

Best Leadership Advice

No matter what happens, especially in bad times, maintain your confidence, keep smiling to your people around you, keep challenging them and make sure that, they never look at you and say, wow, you know, this is the end.

Secret to Success

I’ve always been fairly direct with people.

Best tools in business or life

The opinions of others. Having those relationships where you can bounce your ideas, your feelings about things off of other people.

Recommended Reading

Talk Is Chief: Leadership, Communication, and Credibility in a High-Stakes World

Worthy Fights: A Memoir of Leadership in War and Peace

Two Paths: America Divided or United

Contacting Jack Modzelewski

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-modzelewski-03b02922/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JackKnifePR1

Website: https://www.jackknifepr.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

252: Jack Modzelewski: Talk is Chief

 

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have somebody on the show today who is going to help us with something that is at the core of what we do in leading right ourselves and others.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:11)

Jack Modzelewski grew up in a Chicago suburb with his working class parents and two older brothers. His father worked in security for general electric. His mother was a Polish immigrant and came to the U S before world war II. His parents wanted him to be a teacher, but Jack had larger ambitions when he graduated from the university of Illinois with a bachelor’s degree in communications. Jackson early job experience started at age 11 first delivering newspapers and caddying and then clerking in a wholesale goods business as a teenager. He wanted to be a journalist, like one of his older brothers. He worked as a reporter on his high school and his university newspapers and also college summers for a local newspaper after college. His first job was an account executive for prestigious New York ad agency founded by men who went on to serve as a governor and a us Senator respectively.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:01)

But Jack found the mad men world of advertising limiting, so he pursued his first love, which was journalism. He earned a master’s degree in journalism at Northwestern university and he then worked as an award winning reporter covering government and politics in Illinois. During that time, he also hosted a public radio affairs show on a Chicago hard rock station. He made the transition to public relations when he accepted a job thinking he would try PR for a year. That was the first of his 33 years working for international public relations firms and dozens of advertising clients. Jack spent the last 26 years of his agency career with FleishmanHillard, a leading global communications firm. Most recently he was president of the Americas with responsibility for FH, his largest group of regions, and it’s 1800 people. Earlier in his Fleishman Hillard career, he spent years as president overseeing its offices in Europe.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:56)

At FH, his team’s won many prestigious awards including a gold lion with client general motors at the con film festival for creativity and global agency of the year from PR week. Jack has attended five world economic forums in Davos, Switzerland and has spoken at WEF conferences on four continents. Jack is now chief executive of JackKnifePR, which provides communication advisory services to corporations, startups, and nonprofit organizations. In his book talk is cheap leadership, communications and credibility in a high stakes world. Jack shares with current and future leaders, his lifelong experiences advising organizational chiefs on messaging, media marketing, crisis management, and stakeholder relations. Jack also serves this community as the board chairman of the better government association and as a co-chair for Northwestern university’s capital campaign in 2015 he was inducted into the med Hill hall of achievement at Northwestern. Jack currently this in Chicago with Susan, his wife of 41 wonderful years. Jack Modzelewski are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Jack: (03:05)

I sure am. Jim.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:06)

I’m glad you’re here and I’m really excited about what we’re going to share, but before we do that, I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, so can you share with us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? Well, my current passion remains being involved in society. Uh, you mentioned that I’m chairman of the better government association. I’ve always had an interest in, uh, not just politics, but government issues, problems all around us that government is trying to solve. And that’s why I’ve been involved in this organization for almost nine years. Uh, we just had a very big event where we had the mayor of Chicago and some other major speakers there. But in addition to that, I still love, uh, counseling clients of all kinds, especially a start up in emerging organizations where communication and marketing is just so vital to their future.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:05)

Well, and talking about vital in the book, you know, you mentioned something that to me, I had to stop and really ponder that for quite awhile. And you were mentioning how communication takes up as much as 90% of a leader’s day. And even when you started talking about politics and the societal issues that we have to deal with, these are big problems and communication and effective communication is at the core of all of them. But 90% Jack?

 

Jack: (04:29)

Well, think about it. So, uh, the average leader gets up in the morning, probably is tweeting, looking at emails on the phone with colleagues, uh, customers, uh, key stakeholders throughout the day. They’re in meetings where they’re constantly communicating or they’re on the phone or they have speaking engagements or they’re on television or they’re talking to people on wall street. So I don’t think leaders really think in those terms that 90% of their day is spent talking and communicating.

 

Jim Rembach: (05:07)

And so when you think of it that way, you would probably say to be most effective to optimize that time every day. I should probably try to think about this a little bit more, be as prepared as I can have the best people around me helping me with it. And I will probably at the end of the day or at the end of the year, be a more effective communicator driving performance in my organization.

 

Jim Rembach: (05:31)

Well, you know, even as you’re saying that, I’m starting to think about, well that that’s really at all levels of an organization, you know, and even if correct line dealing with customers, I mean that that communication component for some could even be higher than the 90%.

 

Jack: (05:46)

Oh, certainly. Certainly. And I’m sure there are people who spend 100% of their time communicating. But at the leadership level, I mean, if you’re at the top of the organization, it doesn’t have to be just a chief executive.

 

Jack: (05:58)

It can be anyone in a major leadership position. It’s even more important because people pay attention to what you say every day and whether there is any change in direction or whether they’re picking up on trendlines or nuances that might change how they do their jobs or the direction in which the organization is going. So that’s why, um, leadership communication is so important, especially in this day and age because it is so transparent. Uh, there was a time, and I worked during that time back in another century, in the 20th century where, uh, leaders may occasionally give a speech. They might occasionally send a message or an email around to the organization. And that didn’t happen very often and leaders weren’t very visible. Today they’re constantly visible.

 

Jim Rembach: (06:52)

Well, and even as you’re talking about that, I mean there’s a couple of things that stand out for me and one being is that even when you start looking at people’s resumes, for example though, everybody will, you know, say and self-disclose, you know, that they’re great communicators, both written and verbal communications. However, that just can’t be true. We know it’s not true. So what are they missing in their own self assessment?

 

Jim Rembach: (07:15)

Well, it’s always on the receiving end. So, uh, I think it’s incumbent on people. I had to do this in my own career and I still do to ask the people that I’m communicating to, did I make my point? Did you understand what I was trying to communicate to you? What did you take away from it? You know, whether we’re watching the news or watching a movie or engaged in a conversation with friends or colleagues, we always walk away saying, what did we take away from that experience? And I think that’s the key part of communication. Uh, if people listen to someone talk for 20 minutes and they tune out, then the communicator failed. Um, but if people come away with, gees, that person said two or three very compelling things that I can use in my own life that I can use in my own job, that I can invest in, whatever it might be, then they’ve communicated effectively. I’m a self assessment standpoint, people have to take a look at their own communication style and methods and practices and be judged by others that they’re trying to communicate with.

 

Jim Rembach: (08:30)

Well, even as you’re saying that, I start thinking about, well, there’s a whole neuroscience behind this, then.

 

Jack: (08:36)

There is, and certainly I would never pretend to be a neuro scientist, but I have read some books on it. I have paid attention to, you know, the cognitive abilities of human beings. And what makes this more, most important today is that there are so many distractions around us. As you know, uh, people sit at their desks and they have all these options. They can do work, they can communicate with friends and colleagues. Taken shop, if they’re a company, policies, allow them to shop online during the day. Tremendous distractions all the time. People are constantly on their phones, uh, tweeting, doing Instagram and so forth. So this is what people are competing with when they’re trying to reach people. Um, and you know, that’s why, uh, leaders have been trained and the ones who are really best know how to be very concise in making their points and trying to get it down to a soundbite of, you know, 10 or 15 or 20 words that people were actually going to remember.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:47)

Well, as you were saying that too, there’s something you mentioned before that I think is kind of a, a risk. And you talk about, you know, risk in a lot of different ways in the book, but we talk about transparency, the need for transparency. However, transparency can often be a very, very slippery slope. So where are mostly are falling when it comes to transparency?

 

Jack: (10:09)

I believe they, uh, they have a problem with transparency, not because they’re trying to mislead people or not give them the complete information, but sometimes there’s a big disparity between what people on the outside of an organization think and know about that organization or even inside the organization. And sometimes the leader is ahead or sometimes the leader is aware of turbulence on the way or problems that only a small group of people know about. And um, obviously maybe they’re trying to solve these problems before they come public, but that’s usually where they have transparency issues where someone says, well, wait a second, how long did you know that we were going to have a major sales decline in the third quarter? Or how long have you known about this problem in one of our production plants? Um, where, you know, we’re going to have to shut down the plant and fix it or make changes or those types of things or that, you know, we are about to lose a major contract with one of our customers. So I think, um, in these times, people expect information very fresh right after things happen. And when there’s a time gap, I think that’s when people perceive and accused leaders of saying, well geez, you weren’t transparent enough with us. So it, it, it’s a big responsibility on leader.

 

Jim Rembach: (11:39)

Well, you know, okay. So I think there’s also yet another issue because we’ve gotten into this whole attack first world. Uh, and when we have all these social connections, it’s, it’s so easy to do that and the whole fake news thing and all of those components. So, so, I mean, how can a leader actually be more mindful and cognizant, you know, of these types of things and prepare for them because crisis is going to happen. However, I think it seems that most people don’t prepare for the crisis to happen. Uh, they just kind of let it happen and then they try to react. And by that time, like you were mentioning, it’s just too late. So how can people prepare better so that they don’t have that gap and they don’t stumble when it comes to a responding?

 

Jack: (12:31)

Well, two things I’ll talk about real quickly. One is that in any organization and smaller organizations, I think struggle with this. But the larger organizations who can afford to have people listening to whatever social media is occurring around an organization, that whole ecosystem, um, those people have the responsibility to tell their leadership, you know what, we’re hearing about something out there and it’s not good and people have the wrong perceptions about what we’re doing or a new product that we introduced or something, you know, that we didn’t do in, in their minds. So that’s good information for the leader to say, okay, if that’s the perception of us right now, I’m outside in the external world. It’s probably also the perception inside the company. So we have to do something about that. We have to change that, that we have to address, that communication can be part of addressing, but action is also part of it.

 

Jack: (13:30)

You know, do we have to change our strategy? Do we have to shift something internally? Um, in terms of preparing for something that can really be a bad event, maybe even a catastrophic event for a company normally call the crisis. The other way in which leaders and their organizations can prepare is to make sure that a lot of people are vigilant about things that could happen, that have a high probability of happening. They can look at other organizations around them in their own industry or other industries and say or ask, can that happen to us? Do we have that same problem? Because often a crisis starts out as a smaller issue that’s been ignored, neglected. You know, human beings have a tendency to say, well geez, maybe this will go away or maybe I can fix this before my boss and his boss knows about it. And so you want to have the kind of open environment where people are willing to tell leaders, you know, I see a problem here, I see a potential crisis for us. Let’s get out in front of this. And then it’s the leader’s job to organize people to try to resolve that before it turns into a really serious problem. And that’s often the things that we, in the media that turn into big blow ups, many of them could have been prevented.

 

Jim Rembach: (14:58)

Well, and in the book, I mean, you talk about the 10 commandments of crisis management. And if you can, I’d like to run through those real quick please. So you have the truth always surfaces and you alluded to that a second ago. Own the crisis and demonstrate progress. Um, you know, you can never gain friends and how wise and have a kid during a crisis only before. So you always have to be doing that preparatory work, control the communications agenda as much as possible. Uh, and then you talk about never make predictions or raise false expectations about anything out of your control. Speed matters. You talk about that too. Reputation is a corporate asset and employees can be in the best position to spot those trends. You mentioned that as well and it says avoid finger-pointing. Uh, and then cover ups kill companies. And we’ve seen all of these things play out just within the past probably 12 months. Uh, in a book you just have a slew of both positives and negatives of people who’ve actually managed these 10 commandments. But when you start talking about, you know, communications, you mentioned that it could be a weapon. What do you mean by that?

 

Jack: (16:15)

Well, communications is very powerful and in this day and age with all the platforms and all of the technology that organizations have at their, at their availability, and the most sophisticated organizations today are very active in social media, both listening and talking to their many stake holders. They’re very active, uh, in television, in podcasts. Um, they’re just out there all the time. Um, so many organizations have millions and millions of people paying attention to them. They may not just be employees and customers, they might be investors, they might just be interested parties out there, government officials and so forth. So talking to them on a daily basis or on a regular basis in good times and bad times, I think becomes a very powerful asset for an organization because organizations are often criticized for not communicating enough or not communicating the right things or not opening up lines of communications as they say.

 

Jack: (17:30)

And going back to one of my 10 commandments, it’s absolutely true that, um, if you think you can just sail along in life as a person or as an organization and think that once you get into your own crisis, you can suddenly rally around you to your support. When you haven’t been doing that for years and years, you’ve got a big problem. You know, you don’t have those relationships in place. And that’s why I think that, uh, the really sophisticated organizations out there, they could be global, they could be national, but they’re constantly paying attention to communities. Okay, who do we need to have relationships with? How do we do that? Who meets with them? Who talks to them? What kind of communications channels do we have? What kind of content are we sharing with them? And I think they’re the ones who stand to have a better experience if they actually get into a crisis situation where more, more people give them the benefit of the doubt, they’ll trust them. Trust can go away really quickly though, if you’re doing the wrong things in a situation.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:41)

Well, and I’ll ask it as I was going through this book, it stood out to me for several hours, you know, in several different instances. And you were talking about the whole employee engagement thing. Um, you know, the, the customer, you know, engagement elements, um, you know, several different factors associated with growth, disruption. I mean, there’s all of these things are we see displayed out, you know, in, in, in our economy. Uh, and, and you then you go back to this whole communication is that the root of all of this, you can’t have a good culture. You can’t have good employee engagement. You can’t have good customer engagement. You can’t have a good reputation without the communication element.

 

Jack: (19:17)

Right? And I believe that, uh, today’s modern leaders of many of them do understand that, but I think that, uh, they underperform a bit in that obligation. Some are better than others. And one story I like to tell that’s in the book is, uh, I was speaking a few years ago to a business class in New York city at New York university. And at one point I asked the class, you know, how many of you want to be entrepreneurs? And a lot of hands went up, how many want to work in financial services and so forth. And then I asked how many of you want to work in communications? And one lady kind of shyly put her hand up. And my answer was you’re all going to be in communications. You may not know that now, but no matter what you do, um, in your career, in your profession, you’re going to be communicating every day and you better do it. Well now business schools don’t necessarily emphasize that some do more than others but most haven’t as part of their curricula. So I think it’s very important for people to understand that it relates to everything. You know, as you mentioned, reputation, culture, trying to be a high performance organization, trying to be believable and trusted by consumer basis, all of that.

 

Jim Rembach: (20:35)

But in addition to what you were just saying right there, um, when I start thinking about the full communication element, uh, is that you, you are, there is a very important element that we often see happens and that is, and I’ve been talking about this a lot lady is a disconnection between the head and the feet. So in other words, you know, the very, very top of the organization, uh, and by the time all of this stuff gets filtered down to the front line, it’s very different, very different intent, very different interpretation, you know, and it’s that old drill and things start getting disconnected. So how, how can we ensure that the alignment takes place and gets filtered from the top all the way to the front line?

 

Jack: (21:19)

Well I think that’s where modern communications tools come in. But then there’s some old old fashioned methods as well. I mean there was a time where they used to talk about cascading a communications where I would start at the top with the leadership and then it would go down level by level, supervisor to employee and so forth. And you know, there was a lot of theory that uh, people trust their supervisors with information a lot more than they trust the CEO or the top of the company, uh, because those are the people who, uh, hire them, pay them, supervise the amount of daily basis. But the best way to do this and a lot of CEOs I think have perfected this is really in two ways. One is the less personal way of talking to an organization at the same time video streaming. So you have 40 locations all around the world.

 

Jack: (22:14)

You try to deliver the same message repeated over and over and make sure that the people on that particular, um, streaming or you know, town hall meeting or wherever are hearing it directly from you and then they’re hearing it directly from their supervisors. They’re getting the same message, the same direction, the same information. Obviously people add things to it, they nuance at, they’ll say, well, the CEO might’ve said this, but you know, our job is really to do that. That’s always going to happen. But I think that is one way of doing it. The other way of doing it frankly is, and this relates really to culture, our leaders who do it by walking around their organizations and doing it in person. And that’s really a time consuming job obviously, because that means that if you have many stores, many locations, uh, you, you have a big corporate headquarters, you could be spending all your time doing that. But spending some of your time doing that is very useful and productive because not only are you having a chance to meet with your people, but they’re telling you things that, and they’re offering insights to you that are very important to the organization because they’re hearing it from the front lines and you might not be.

 

Jim Rembach: (23:32)

Yeah, I think that for me, you talk a lot about, um, you know, really the emotional intelligence aspects of all of this. And you talk about empathizing with the customer, empathizing with the employee, empathizing with your audience. I mean all of that about really heightening, you know, your whole emotional intelligence and all of this. And so when you start going back to the whole neuroscience and all of that, while you claim, you know, that you’re not a neuroscientist, I see all of these elements coming into play. And so when you start looking at the pillars of communication, what would you say they are?

 

Jack: (24:03)

Well, I would say number one, um, you have to have a mission and a purpose. So any new CEO I think has to revisit that. Uh, even in very successful companies, you know, is our mission very clear? Is our purpose really clear? And these days there are high expectations on organizations, whether it’s government, whether corporations not for profits, uh, from their constituents on what, what is their purpose and are they really delivering on it? And is that the right purpose? So I think that’s one being very clear in defining what’s the mission? Why does this organization exist in the first place? Even though maybe it’s been around for a hundred years or even longer. And then it’s, um, what do we want our people to really do for the people that we’re trying to serve out and making sure that we can equip them not only with the right communications, but the right tools and the right actions and the right products and so forth to really do their jobs to the best of their ability and serve the communities that they’re trying to serve.

 

Jack: (25:15)

So I think that’s another pillar of the communications platform. And then there’s certainly, you know, what differentiates us from others, and that’s a big thing today because so many organizations can look alike sound the light in how they present themselves to the world. But how do you really differentiate yourself? And I think that comes down to what really does make us different. What’s in our DNA that makes us a little different from that company, these other guys over here. And that’s something that I think a lot of organizations struggle with. Really trying to find those key points of differentiation.

 

Jim Rembach: (25:55)

You know that reminds me of a conversation I had with somebody at a trade show. I walked up to their booth. They were a business process outsourcer. I saw all these statistics in their GE, in their global footprint of all their locations and things like that. And I said, okay, so I, you know, I can go and there’s 10 other companies like you just hear, I said, what, what, what makes you different? And so then he starts rolling into these statistics and these, and I said, well, wait a minute. Then he started telling me this story about a wa then down in South America, they actually have a milk subsidy program for their employees because milk’s like $5 a gallon. They play their employees three 50 an hour and they even give these coupons. So family members and so their people can buy milk. And it’s a huge, uh, employee engagement opportunity for them. Um, because it really also, they, they piggy back that, you know, with our overall focus on employee. And, and I told him, I said, you know, if it was me and somebody came up to me and they said, what do you guys do? I said, the first thing out of my mouth would be we subsidized. No, he goes, what? I said, that’s your differentiator. I said, otherwise you’re just like the other 10 that are sitting up here. And he goes, well, I thought about that and my boss told me, I shouldn’t say that. Squash an opportunity.

 

Jack: (27:09)

Right. Well, and the other part of that is sometimes you have to dig deep in the organization to keep finding data points that bolster your story of why you’re different. Um, but again, it’s in the eyes of the customer or it’s the eyes of the stake holder, uh, who will actually say, you know what, based on what you’ve told me and the picture that you’ve given me of your organization, you are a little different and I’m willing to buy more of your product or I’m willing to be more passionate about being one of your loyal customers. So it’s a constant struggle. It depends heavily on research. It depends a lot on a term that you used about emotional intelligence, compassion, not only from the leader but from the organization. And the leader can set the tone. But if the leader says, look, it’s our job to find out not to just sell products to people, invent them and innovate them and improve them, what do they really need? What do we really need? And that requires a lot of research. And I think some of the best companies out there, especially conclusive consumer companies have said, we literally almost have to live in their homes and see how they use our products or what they need or what’s frustrating them. And then we can finally understand and be empathetic about how can we serve them better?

 

Jim Rembach: (28:31)

Well, definitely that whole ethnographic study area is booming, uh, when you start talking about customer experience. But, uh, that’s a whole nother episode. But I mean, when you start looking at the things associated with this communication at the core, uh, man, we need a whole lot of focus and inspiration. And one of the things that we look at on the show or quotes and your book is just full of them from global leaders, both in the public and private sector. But when you start talking about a quote that inspires you, do you have one or two that you can share?

 

Jack: (29:00)

Uh, gosh, there’s so many, but um, I’ve been a big fan of Winston Churchill. So many of the things that we’ve sent Churchill has said about leadership and about, um, trying to use communication to get people to do something, whether it’s fight a war or change the economy in, you know, 20th century Britain was really important. Um, another quote in the book that really stood out for me was Jack Welsh, who is a very respected, uh, business leader and has been a business coach ever since he gave up being a CEO of general electric. Um, he said you can’t things enough in your organizations for them to stick. Uh, I think he might’ve said you have to repeat things a thousand times and repetition does matter a lot in communication. That’s probably why during election time, you know, you see the same commercial 17 times in an hour for those who can afford to put those commercials on air because, uh, there is a, a cognitive theory that people have to see a message, you know, seven, 10 times before it really starts to stick in their brains. So, um, I think that was a very good quote. And, and the truth is, um, I lead many of my chapters with quotes from people that I thought were compelling to those specific, uh, topics, whether it was culture, whether it was being part of, uh, the narrativity of a company, whether it was, you know, how to offset risks and deal with crisis and so forth.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:37)

I’ll end with that inspiration. Sometimes we have to find it ourselves, you know, we, and we on the show, we talk about, you know, times when we’ve gotten over the hump, you know, when we’ve had that lesson and that learning and it’s hopefully put us in a better direction. Is there a time that you’ve done over the hump that you can share?

 

Jack: (30:53)

Yes. Um, there was certainly a time where, um, I was in a, a situation with a client who was in a crisis and um, obviously they were in some state of denial cause they didn’t really believe that what had cross caused the crisis came from one of their plants, one of their factories from their products and had to sit in a room with, you know, the senior leadership who cared a lot about their consumers and about delivering the best quality products, but were not prepared to take the real actions in the speed that they needed to, to reassure the public and to reassure their customers and others that they were going to do the right things. And it turned pretty combative and argumentative, uh, especially with the CEO. And I had to be both the, the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also kind of the peacekeeper in the room to make sure that we weren’t going to lose control of the situation, that people weren’t going to start blaming each other and walking out of the room and so forth.

 

Jack: (32:00)

Um, that’s happened more than once. But I remember in this particular instance, it was a very, very tense time and everyone’s blood pressure was up and everyone’s pulse rate was up. And the main thing in a situation like that, as a person, several people have to keep calm. You have to keep calm and make decisions and make them as quickly as you can with the best information you can and just keep going. You know, I think there was a quote that when you feel like you’re in hell, you have to just keep going, keep walking through it.

 

Speaker 2: (32:35)

So the whole persistence and resilience piece, I mean, I think it’s key in all of us, but however, there’s many times where, you know, a person’s career has come to an end, you know, because of this failure of communication. And even you cited a statistic talking about, uh, from I think 2017 saying something like 900 plus CEOs are either terminated, uh, had to be, you know, um, or had to resign. Um, and I know, so when you start talking about all of this issue as far as communication, do we see a time by which that number is going to decline or are we going to continue to see that rise? Uh, and until, you know, a whole generation essentially decides to retire, right?

 

Jack: (33:24)

Well, of those 9oo in 2017 or of some in the past year who have had to give up their jobs as leaders, some of them did stem from communication mistakes or things that they did that they tried to cover up with the wrong communication. Instead of trying to own the problem, live up to it and say, yes, I’m going to have to move on. I made a mistake here. There’s been a few examples of that recently. The CEO who just left McDonald’s who said acknowledged that he had violated company policy. He made a mistake. He apologized for it, and he’s out of a job. Others are out of jobs strictly for performance or because their shareholders or the, or other investors don’t think that they’re doing a good job and their boards of directors, uh, show them the door and bring in someone else as a leader. So I don’t think it’s gonna stop happening. I don’t think it’s going to decline because the expectations on organizations these days, especially those that are publicly traded and, uh, have so many people dependent on them. Um, the expectations are extremely high and they’re almost daily expectations.

 

Speaker 2: (34:41)

Well, in the book you talk about communication being a lubricant of your leadership and I liked the way that that was actually put together, but when we start talking about, you know, the book we’re gonna start talking about your life’s work, what you’re doing now at jackknife PR, I have to imagine that you have, you know, several goals, but if you, if you can really focus in on one, what would be one of your top goals?

 

Jack: (35:01)

I think my top goal with this book and what I might do with whatever runway I have left in my consulting career is to keep impressing, especially on a new generation of leaders who are much younger than me. This is important. Communication on a daily basis is important. And as I said in the title, I think it is a management function. It’s a strategic function of organizations. It underscores the credibility of not only you, the person, but also of the organization itself. And if you do it right, it can enhance performance. So I keep talking about it and offering my advice on how to do it and how to do it right because leaders today are so busy, um, you know, their hair’s on fire all the time. They’re dealing with 18 things every hour. And um, when someone says, well, you know, you’ve got to communicate better, they kind of take that for granted. But it’s the how and the how is often accomplished by the people around them who are helping them with that.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:06)

And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:13)

An Even Better Place to Work is an easy solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award, winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com board slash better.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:33)

Okay Fast leader Legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Jack. The Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m gonna ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust and rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Jack Modzelewski are you ready to hoedown?

 

Jack: (36:54)

Yes, I am.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:55)

All right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Jack: (37:00)

Uh, time. I think, uh, we’re all constrained by time and uh, I’m just the type of person who likes to stay on top of so many things. And it seems like there’s not enough time in a day to do that.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:13)

What is the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?

 

Jack: (37:16)

It was no matter what happens, especially in bad times, maintain your confidence, uh, keeps smiling to your people around you, keep challenging them and make sure that, uh, they never look at you and say, wow, I’m, you know, this is the end. Um, it should really be the leader who keeps people going in any situation and gets them through it and inspires them to the next level.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:43)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Jack: (37:47)

That, um, I’ve always been fairly direct with people. Um, when a client asks me to give advice on a problem once I analyzed it, once I talked to people, I’d say, this is what I think you’re going through. I think this is the issue. I think this is how people see it from the outside and this is what you should do. So I’ve always been very direct in the advice that I’ve given.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:10)

And what is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Jack: (38:13)

The opinions of others. I don’t know if that’s a tool, but having those relationships where you can bounce your ideas, your, your, uh, your feelings about things off of other people, your intuition and say, what do you think, uh, would you do it this way? When you get advice from other smart people, um, it really makes a big difference. You can never come up with all the right solutions on your own.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:41)

And what is one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course. We’re going to put a link to Talk is Chief on your show notes page as well.

 

Jack: (38:50)

Um, I’ve read, read so many great books in the last few years. I really like two books by politicians or government leaders from different parties. One was Worthy Fights by Leon Panetta who was a hero of mine and one was by John Casick, a Republican and a longtime governor. And Congressman has booked Two Paths because they weren’t just about government and politics, they were about leadership and a lot about communication and motivating people.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:20)

Okay Fast Leader Legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski. Okay, Jack, this is my last Humpday Hoedown question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have the knowledge and skills that you have now and you can take them back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Jim Rembach: (39:43)

Uh, if I went back to being 25, the one scale I would take is to talk to people who are much older and wiser than me and take their advice very seriously and compile that and use that as part of my own world vision and my compass.

 

Jim Rembach: (40:01)

Jack I had fun with you today. How do people get in touch with you?

 

Jack: (40:04)

Uh, they can do it by going to jack@jackknifepr.com or just go to my website www.jackknifepr.com

 

Jim Rembach: (40:14)

Jack Modzelewski thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

 

The post 252: Jack Modzelewski: Talk is Chief appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Jack Modzelewski Show Notes Page Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and ... Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things.
Jack grew up in a Chicago suburb with his working-class parents and two older brothers. His father worked for in security for General Electric. His mother, a Polish immigrant, came to the U.S. before WW II. His parents wanted him to be a teacher. But Jack had larger ambitions when he graduated from the University of Illinois with a bachelor’s degree in communications.
Jack’s early job experience started at age 11, first delivering newspapers and caddying and then clerking in a wholesale goods business. As a teenager, he wanted to be a journalist, like one of his older brothers. He worked as a reporter on his high school and his university newspapers, and also college summers for a local newspaper.
After college his first job was an account executive for a prestigious New York ad agency founded by men who went on to serve as a governor and a U.S. senator, respectively. But Jack found the Mad Men world of advertising limiting, so he pursued his first love – journalism. He earned a Master’s degree in Journalism at Northwestern University. He then worked as an award-winning reporter covering government and politics in Illinois.   During that time, he also hosted a public affairs radio show on a Chicago hard rock station.
He made the transition to public relations when he accepted a job thinking he would “try PR” for a year. That was the first of his 33 years working for international public relations firms and advising dozens of clients. Jack spent the last 26 years of his agency career with Fleishman Hillard, a leading global communications firm.
Most recently he was president of the Americas with responsibility for FH’s largest group of regions and its 1,800 people. Earlier in his FleishmanHillard career he spent years as president overseeing its offices in Europe. At FH his teams won many prestigious awards, including a Gold Lion with client General Motors at the Cannes Festival for Creativity, and Global Agency of the Year from PRWeek. Jack has attended five World Economic Forums in Davos, Switzerland, and has spoken at WEF conferences on four continents.
Jack is now chief executive of JackKnifePR, which provides communication advisory services to corporations, start-ups, and non-profit organizations. In his book Talk is Chief – Leadership, Communications and Credibility in a High-Stakes World, Jack shares with current and future leaders his life-long experiences advising organizational chiefs on messaging, media, marketing, crisis management, and stakeholder relationships.
Jack also serves his community as the board chairman of the Better Government Association and is a co-chair for Northwestern University’s capital campaign. In 2015, he was inducted into the Medill Hall of Achievement at Northwestern.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @JackKnifePR1 to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet 
“I don’t think leaders really think in those terms that 90% of their day is spent talking and communicating.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15432 https://www.fastleader.net/jonobacon/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/jonobacon/feed/ 0 <p>Jono Bacon Show Notes Page Jono Bacon started his journey of building communities as a fledgling young rock star in the UK. As a result of living up to his parent’s expectations he now he provides expertise and advice in this latest era of business. As an expert in community strategy, management, and collaboration Jono [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/jonobacon/">251: Jono Bacon: Communities supercharge business</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Jono Bacon Show Notes Page

Jono Bacon started his journey of building communities as a fledgling young rock star in the UK. As a result of living up to his parent’s expectations he now he provides expertise and advice in this latest era of business. As an expert in community strategy, management, and collaboration Jono works with Fortune 500 companies, startups, and governments across the globe.

Jono was born in Northallerton, North Yorkshire in England. He lived in Bedfordshire and the West Midlands before relocating to California in 2008 to live with his wife, Erica.

While he has always had an interest in technology, the seed change happened in 1998 when Jono’s older brother, Simon, introduced him to Open Source. Jono was captivated by the notion of people around the world working together to produce technology that they all shared and benefited from. This created a lifelong passion to understand every nuance of how to build productive, engaging communities where a network of minds, experience, and time can produce value together. Just imagine what is possible if we can crack the code for doing this well?

He started dipping his toes into various technology communities, writing extensively for magazines and online outlets, and then joining a new government initiative called OpenAdvantage that provided Open Source training and consulting. As this initiative neared completion, Jono moved on to lead community strategy for Ubuntu, one of the most popular technology platforms in the world, ultimately becoming a community of millions of users.

His career then took him to XPRIZE where he helped launch incentive competitions that solve major challenges (such as the $15million dollar Global Learning XPRIZE to build technology that teaches kids literacy without a teach) and then he went to lead community strategy at GitHub where most of the world’s technology is created.

At this point in his career, Jono wanted to apply the power of building communities to broader range of industries and challenges and he started consulting for a variety range of organizations about community and collaboration strategy. This includes industries such as financial services, entertainment, professional services, non-profits, consumer products, security, and beyond. His clients have included Deutsche Bank, The Executive Centre, Google, Mattermost, Glorious Games, Santander, and more.

As his career has developed, so has his passion for his craft. Jono is determined to leave a legacy in which building powerful, productive, empowering communities is clearer and more predictable than ever before. His book, ‘People Powered: How communities can supercharge your business, brand, and teams’ is the latest milestone on that journey.

Jono is based in California where he lives with his wife Erica and son.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @jonobacon to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“We’re stronger together, when you bring people together and they have a shared passion and ethos.” – Click to Tweet

“We’ve seen a number of eras of the relationship between companies and their customers.” – Click to Tweet

“Millennials have identified a sense of community and connectivity is a critical element in how they’re choosing their workplaces.” – Click to Tweet

“Communities are the future of how businesses need to operate.” – Click to Tweet

“We all as human beings want a sense of belonging.” – Click to Tweet

“Building a great community is about building an experience and journey for your members.” – Click to Tweet

“The very best things we experience in the world are well-curated experiences and journeys.” – Click to Tweet

“We overvalue our own creations.” – Click to Tweet

“We as human beings consistently mimic our leaders.” – Click to Tweet

“We all want to do work that’s meaningful.” – Click to Tweet

“If you have an audience that’s interested in what you do you can build a community.” – Click to Tweet

“In the worst possible moments, it will pass, you will find a way forward.” – Click to Tweet

“We can train ourselves with how to deal with adversity effectively.” – Click to Tweet

“Stories are a vessel for learning.” – Click to Tweet

“The hardest lessons in your life are the most valuable ones.” – Click to Tweet

“Challenge yourself and be vulnerable and you’ll get there.” – Click to Tweet

“In general, the human condition is a kind one.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Jono Bacon started his journey of building communities as a fledgling young rock star in the UK. As a result of living up to his parent’s expectations he now he provides expertise and advice in this latest era of business. As an expert in community strategy, management, and collaboration Jono works with Fortune 500 companies, startups, and governments across the globe.

Advice for others

Measure and react to what you measure. Be a detective to see what’s around you.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Crafting my message better.

Best Leadership Advice

Don’t take yourself to seriously and try hard.

Secret to Success

I am an eternal student.

Best tools in business or life

Friends and colleagues.

Recommended Reading

People Powered: How Communities Can Supercharge Your Business, Brand, and Teams

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change

The Obstacle Is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph

Contacting Jono Bacon

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonobacon/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jonobacon

Website: https://www.jonobacon.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

 

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

Jim Rembach: : (00:00)
Okay. Fast Lear Legion. I’m so excited because today I have somebody on the show who’s going to help give us insights into the future of business.

Jim Rembach: : (00:10)
Jono bacon was born in North Ollerton, North Yorkshire in England. He lived in Bedfordshire and the West Midlands before relocating to California in 2008 to live with his wife Erica. While he has always had an interest in technology, the seed changed happen in 1998 when John was older, brother Simon introduced him to open source. Gianna was captivated by the notion of people around the world working together to produce technology that they all shared and benefited from. This created a lifelong passion to understand every nuance of how to build productive, engaging communities where a network of minds, experience and time can produce value together. Just imagine what is possible if we can crack the code of doing this well. He started dipping his toes into various technology communities, writing extensively for magazines and online outlets and then joining a new government initiative called open advantage that provided open source training and consulting as this initiative near completion.

Jim Rembach: : (01:13)
Jonelle moved on to lead community strategy for Ubuntu, one of the most popular technology platforms in the world, ultimately becoming a community of millions of users. His career then took him to X prize where he helped launch incentive competitions that solve major challenges such as the $15 million global learning X prize to build technology that teaches kids literacy without a teacher. And then he went to leave community strategy and gift hub and get hub where most of the world’s technology is created. At this point in his career, Jonelle wanted to apply the power of building communities to broader range of industries and challenges and he started consulting for a variety and range of organizations about community and collaboration strategy. This includes industries such as financial services, entertainment, professional services, nonprofits, consumer products, security and beyond. His clients have included Deutsche bank, the executive center, Google matter, most glorious games, Santander and more as his career’s developed, so has his passion for his craft.

Jim Rembach: : (02:20)
John was determined to leave a legacy in which building powerful, productive, empowering communities is clear and more predictable than ever before his book. People powered how communities can supercharge your business brand and teams is a milestone on that journey. And Gianna was based in California where he lives with his wife Erica and his son Johnell bacon. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? Let’s do this. I’m excited. Well, I’m glad you’re here and I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we get to know even better? Yeah. My passion is as, um, I guess you could say it’s not particularly current, but it’s becoming even more ferocious than ever, which is, I first discovered,

Jono Bacon: (03:00)
you mentioned it just now back communities back in 1998. The thing that really struck me, I didn’t really know it at the time, was we’re stronger together. When you bring people together and they have a shared passion and a shared ethos, it’s amazing what people can produce, right? We’ve seen Salesforce, Oracle, SAP build communities of, of, uh, over a million members. We’ve seen Holly Davidson, uh, set up over 700 local chapters around the world. We saw, you know, the revolution in, in, uh, in the web happening with Missoula, um, you know, Wikipedia value to tens of billions of dollars by the Smithsonian. It’s incredible when you pull people together. The tricky thing is knowing how you do that as being, as being difficult. You know, it’s a combination of psychology and workflow and technology. And my goal is to really try and figure out what the code behind that is.

Jono Bacon: (03:48)
And, uh, and my theory here is what, I don’t even think it’s a theory. I, I know it’s true, is when we get that combination right, it doesn’t just make the world a better place. It makes businesses more effective. It makes activism more effective. It’s how we are, uh, the best that we can be as a species. You know, as you’re talking, I started thinking about so many different elements associated with, you know, purpose, clarity, communication, connection. I mean, to me it’s almost like, okay, think about it from a, a, an English alphabet perspective. We have all of these letters and that for each community to be successful, it’s a different way that they’re configured. So yes, you have to figure out, you know, what elements have to go into the community for it to be successful. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean it’s exactly that.

Jono Bacon: (04:35)
The way I tend to think of it is that there’s kind of three buckets of communities, three templates I guess you could say. And I, I F one of them is what I referred to as can see them as these are the people who get together cause they have a shared interest. So for example, Trek BBS brings together millions of star Trek fans and they can’t really influence the show, but they, they care about it and there’s something pleasurable about spending time with other people. It builds a sense of inclusivity with, with people who share your common interest. The second type is what I refer to as consume as a, as, as champions. These are people who come together and they want to go the extra mile. They, they produce documentation, they make videos, they organize local events. Um, and we’ve seen many examples of this around the world.

Jono Bacon: (05:14)
I mean, I mentioned Missoula as an example of Iran. They had people in that community making crop circles to praise it, wellness of this back in the late nineties. And then the third type is what I refer to as collaborators. And these are people who get together to build things together. So for example, the open source community is a as generated technology that’s, you know, that’s powering the phones in your pockets. The cloud infrastructure, electrical grids. You know, one such example is a, is a project called Cuban Netties, which brings together over 2000 developers from over 50 competing companies to, to build technology that really powers the cloud. Each of these different models requires very subtly different ways in which you, you build them. But they all have psychology and cause you know, the, the, the machine, all of this is running on as human brains. So, you know, when I wrote people powered, a big chunk of it is what are the threads that go through all of these? And then how do you differentiate based upon the template that you’re using?

Jim Rembach: : (06:09)
Well, I also too, I’d like to add that what we’re talking about here or an organization, um, first of all, communities can be anywhere. We know they’re everywhere they’ve been through here, throw out of our lives. Um, even, uh, Dr. Charles Vogel who’s been on the show talk about its community, it actually has helped our species to survive. Yeah. However, when you start thinking about today’s world from an economy perspective is an organization can leverage communities, um, in a lot of different ways and they can also be extensions of their customer service. They can be part of their client success program and client success has to do with customer retention, uh, and helping customers to, to be, uh, better, uh, with the, the services and solutions that you provide. And there’s a lot of different, I mean, you can use it for marketing audit different ways that community can be leveraged. And so for my listeners, I often I’m talking to people who are in customer experience and customer care. Is that community, is is really one of the going to be one of the core tenants in how we actually both attract as well as retain customers really from here going forward?

Jono Bacon: (07:18)
I, I completely agree. I think what we, what we’re actually seeing is we’ve seen a number of kind of, um, eras of the relationship between companies and their customers. You know, back in the earlier days, um, it was very much a case that you make a product and you sell it to your, to your customer, and then the primary way in which they reach out to you have a relationship with you if through your history, your support line, right. You know, something broke, you need to return, they can’t figure out how to do something with your products. And that’s it. The secondary era was more the, the company would try and broadcast information and keep people aware of what they’re doing. So this would be through, you know, through newsletters, through social media, through blogging, through TV advertising. And then I think the third area that we’ve, we’ve seen, particularly in the last five years has been the bundling of online services with products.

Jono Bacon: (08:08)
So for example, if you go and buy a Lego set, if you buy a Disney toy, they all come with these apps. You know, any parent knows how annoying this is in some ways because sometimes these, these bundled services offer enormous value. So for example, as we record this today, Fitbit as being bought by Google for over $2 billion. And it’s not just that the fact that they make electronic fitness equipment is that they have a whole service that analyzes your data, provides recommendations and such forth. The next, the next era in my mind is that with all of those previous areas, it’s been primarily broadcasting information, providing content and services to the, to the consumer. Because modern consumers don’t want that anymore. What they want is a relationship with the bronze. 85% of millennials have a smartphone. You know, the younger generation is up in a connected society. Um, I, I forget the exact statistic, but, uh, you know, millennials have identified a sense of community and connectivity is a critical element in how that’s used in the workplaces. So to me, communities are the future of how businesses are going to need to operate. And, um, and we’ve already seen many examples of this succeeding and I think we’re going to see the, the, the, the general application of this to be much broader. And, uh, and that’s where I want to move is,

Jim Rembach: : (09:22)
well, and I would dare to say that, you know, you started talking about the, um, the younger generation. I mean, when you start looking at the, uh, you know, statistics from a demographics perspective, some of your more rapid usage is actually in the older generations. I mean, when you start talking about the aging, uh, in an advanced, uh, marketplaces, um, you know, of the, of the different countries, I mean, in the U S and the baby boomers and all of that is, uh, they are the most quick to adopt. And they are the one who are seeking out community more so than the younger generation or self-absorbed. Right. Um, right. We’re gaining and things like that where it’s the older generation want to use community as a way to connect personally.

Jono Bacon: (10:02)
Right. And I think some of that is like the older generation in my mind. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting kind of the swing of this because when I was growing up, for example, in England, one of the things that the older generation always grumbled about was the fact that there wasn’t that sense of community anymore, that everybody was, was heads down in the video games and distinct all the internet and whatever else. Um, and I think that the older generation is as, Oh, I’ve always had a hankering for that to go back to those days of, of, of genuine community. And the young generation has grown up in a world of connectivity. But I think what defines a lot of their social, um, definition is, is that sense of belonging. Like belonging is the thing that threads through all of this is that we all as human beings, when you take away the screens, the computers, the microphones, all the books in the background, you know, we want a sense of belonging. We need that sense of, of, of social capital. So I think the younger generation of, uh, defining that and that consuming that more actively, but the older generation I think have a really good concept of what that is because because of that kind of original piece that happened before it.

Jim Rembach: : (11:03)
Um, most definitely I, and even too, when I start thinking about going back and thinking about this whole, you know, the value and benefit to the company and extension of customer service and all of those things is that, you know, all organizations realize that we need to have knowledge workers who understand the products and services internally to do a better job of starting to extend that, you know, to some people. As part of our community. I am actually a certified community manager. Uh, and one of the things through my certifications, we talked about an indoctrination process, which is, you know, a very different approach and mindset than just onboarding. Right? Right. Yup. That’s what we want to do is we actually want people to engage, connect, participate, champion, advocate. I mean there’s an elevation cycle. You use a little bit different

Jono Bacon: (11:54)
terminology, but tell, tell us about that Metro aeration cycle that you try to help organization to be able to create. Yeah. So my philosophy throughout all of this, and this is why throughout the entirety of people power is that the community building a great community is about building an experience and a journey for your members. Um, and I think that the very best things that we experience in the world are, uh, well curated experiences and journeys. For example, anyone who’s been to Disney world has seen this from the minute you, you pull onto the property to how you get parked to how you buy your tickets. I mean, they’re expensive, but how you get through and how you are kind of move through the park every, every single decision is being carefully curated. Um, one of the challenges I think we face with a lot of people who do community management is that the natural urgency is to go out and build awareness and growth.

Jono Bacon: (12:42)
So people spend a lot of money on advertising, social media content and things such as that. The first step in my mind is you have to bring people in and you have to, with if someone’s going to, if you go and do all the advertising and bring people in and they come to your front door, you want to make sure that the, the indoctrination, the on ramp of that is as smooth and as simple as possible. So what I’ve developed over the years is something that I call my community participation model. And basically the first step is that you, you define your target audiences that you want to reach out to. So you say, okay, I want to bring in people to write software or I want people to produce documentation. I want people to, to, to provide support. Um, so you’re providing kind of the, the, um, the supply part of the supply and demand pace, right?

Jono Bacon: (13:24)
So when people come in and ask questions, you want people to be able to provide answers for example. So we carve out those personas and then what you do is you want them to get to the first piece of value that they can generate for themselves on the community as quickly as possible. So let’s say you want to set up a community, people are going to provide help around your product, which is very common. Um, you want people to be able to provide an answer as quickly and as effectively as possible and carving out the OnRamp where they, the step one of the on ramp and then the final step is always the same. The first step is what is the point of someone joining your community? What is the, what’s in it for them? What do they get out of it? What’s going to take them away from their friends, families, PlayStations and whatever else.

Jono Bacon: (14:01)
And then the final step is when they’ve made that first contribution, validating it is making it clear we value what you did, we appreciate what you’ve accomplished him. And that is one piece of it. And I think when you, when you craft that well it means that it’s the easiest possible way for people to join your community in the same way that the very first level of pretty much every video game is a tutorial level for people to pick up the dynamics of how the game operates. The gaming industry, which is a multibillion dollar industry, is figured out the importance of that. The key thing then is you then step into a journey where you start out as a casual member where you don’t really know anyone, you feel a bit weird, you’ve got a bit of impostor syndrome, you don’t want to put a foot wrong and look stupid and then you eventually evolve into irregular where you’re there most days participating and then a very small number of these people will become core members.

Jono Bacon: (14:50)
And the way in which we move people forward through those three phases is through a series of incentives. And the reason why I break it into those three phases is because each phase requires different bits of strategy. So, for example, when someone joins a company in the brand new accompany, what do most companies provide them with? They provide them with mentors that provide them with education, that provide them with a lot of validation that provide them with very concrete things for them to get started with. You want to do the same thing for the casual phase of your community. And the goal in my mind is throughout, throughout this journey is 66 days. Scientifically, it takes 66 days to build a habit. Whether you want to get fit, whether you want to stop drinking, whether you want to join a community, and when you can get someone to join for 66 days fairly consistently, then they enter into the Regulus phase.

Jono Bacon: (15:35)
And at that point, um, you know, you, you, you apply a strategy to that pace as well. The key thing in my mind is you’re always, you’re weaving in pieces that move people forward from the minute they discover your community to how they go to that on ramp, into the casual, into the regular, into the core. And that’s one of the reasons why I think being intentional about communities is so it’s so critical. It’s not about frankly just signing people up to newsletters and throwing social media out there. Those are tactics that need to sit in terms of a wider strategy. Well, and I think that’s, that’s the kind of the thing that talking about jobs of the future, right? Um, it does require some deep understanding and expertise. Um, and you talked a lot about the whole human psychology element, right? Neuroscience, um, talking about, you know, motivations, the science of motivation.

Jono Bacon: (16:29)
There’s several different pieces that are involved with being able to have a successful community, some of those sciences a little bit. This is what I find so exciting about this. Like I’ve been, it’s funny, uh, on a side note, I, we, my family just got a puppy recently and we hired a dog trainer to help us, you know, train the dog and he’s been doing it for full ears. And the first session I had with him, he said, I love doing this. This is what I love about this is excited about it as he was in day one. And I feel the same way about my career. One of the things I love about this is it’s this fascinating intersection of, like I said earlier on psychology and technology and workflow. The psychology piece I think is particularly interesting. So some of you’ll, you’ll, um, your audience members may be familiar with behavioral economics, which is the, the, the science of we as human beings acting very irrational ways.

Jono Bacon: (17:21)
Like, we should eat healthy all the time. We should save for retirement. We should, you know, shouldn’t drink much alcohol. We shouldn’t take any drugs. But what do people do? You know, they drink, they drink too much, they eat fast food after they’ve drunk too much. They don’t say for retirement. We do these things, but we do them in consistent ways. Uh, where we’re predictably irrational is done. Our reality Robocom a lot of this offers like a psychological blueprint for how communities operate. So I’ll give you a couple of examples. One something called the Ikea effect, which is, you know, if you went and bought an Ikea table and I went and bought exactly the same table and we both produced, built them ourselves, you’d think your table is better than mine. And I would think my table was better than yours. And the reason for that is because we over value our own creations.

Jono Bacon: (18:05)
Now we know that scientifically. And that therefore has massive implications for how you build collaborative environments where you’ve got peer review, like a very common thing in communities is someone produces something and then the community provides input and review on that and to maintain a maintain quality. But it also provides fantastic feedback for the original personal, the person who produced the original piece of work. So if we know that we overvalue each of those creations, therefore we know we should have an objective way of putting in place peer review. You know, another example is, is that we as human beings consistently mimic our leaders. Um, and so consequently, one of the questions I get from a lot of journalists is, okay, we, we’ve got a lot of kind of outrage culture right now and, and in many cases, bad leadership in businesses. How do you deal with that?

Jono Bacon: (18:54)
And one element of this is not just setting the right kind of expectations around conduct, but it’s also instilling good leadership because people will mimic that leaders. But you need to teach people how to be good leaders. And so that can trickle downhill. So to me it’s, it’s an understanding of the behavioral sciences piece. Um, I think is one element, but the other element as well as just understanding the drivers behind why people join communities and why people operate in the way that they do. So one of the things I talk about early in the book is, I mentioned this earlier in this interview, is we want to get to that. Yeah. Sense of belonging. The way in which we get to belonging is we need to have access to the ability to participate in one way. And then we need to be able to make contributions and build a sense of self confidence.

Jono Bacon: (19:39)
And when you build a sense of self confidence, because that contribution to the loop is, is successful, it builds a real sense of dignity, which is kind of in a piece in our grouping. And when you keep doing that, you move to that sense of, of, of belonging. And what pushes all of that forward is social capital, which is this kind of free flowing, unspoken currency, which is not just doing great work, but it’s also the tonality and how you do that work. Like everybody who is listening to this or watching this will be familiar with those amazing colleagues that you’ve worked with who don’t just do great work, but they’re kind, they have empathy. You want to be around them. That generates as much social capital as the work itself. So,

Jim Rembach: : (20:20)
so as you’re talking, I mean, I’m starting to think much like we build a career paths, you know, within an organization and a half to build member paths for our community as well. Yeah. Just that, that, that adding value back to that person, enriching them, having them come out with something better if they were never to leave community is what’s going to help to continue to feed and grow the community.

Jono Bacon: (20:44)
You know, Jim, that’s, that’s a really, I never really thought about that. That’s a good point. As the, in, in, in really strong businesses, you have a, there is a career progression path, right? And it gives people a reason, Oh, a sense of momentum. Um, and one of the things, another psychological piece that’s so critical here is the, the value of, of, of meaning, um, is that we all want to do work that’s meaningful. Like I mentioned Don Aurelio, you honor, I can’t remember which book he wrote this in. I think it was predictably irrational, but he talked about, um, you know, a guy who was working on a merger and acquisition strategy and he spent weeks working on this presentation deck. You’re sleeping at work under his desk and the whole, the whole nine yards. And then the deal was called off and he was completely devastated. And even though he’d enjoyed the work and he felt like he was doing great work throughout all of that, it just didn’t erase that memory because it wasn’t going to have the meaning that it intended. And that’s why you know that the core ethos and the goals of the community is as critical as the pieces that you put in place. Um, so you know, that journey that I mentioned, the other one really is kind of the equivalent of carving out that kind of courageous in the company.

Jim Rembach: : (21:52)
And so when I start thinking about, you know, all of the different elements and components and the potential value, uh, that getting this right can add to an organization, I mean, it’s quite significant. So good with the communities that you’ve been involved with. Kind of give us a little bit of perspective of magnitude of growth and timeline because I think that’s important cause you and I also had the opportunity to talk about it. It’s like this doesn’t happen overnight. This is not a built, this is not a build it and then hold them back because they’re going to come flooding in thing. Yeah,

Jono Bacon: (22:23)
exactly. I mean, one thing I, you know, that I, I say a few times in people thought is I, I try to be like, I’m an optimist. I’m definitely a glass half full. I think there’s enormous amounts of opportunity in the world for most people. Um, but I’m a realist. Like this is it, it takes time. There is no silver bullet. There’s no guarantee, right? That the recommendations, the approach that I’ve used over the years is the most reliable approach that I’ve found, but there’s no guarantee that it will work for everybody. Um, and I think therefore what we see is we see growth figures that vary somewhat depending on the focus and the, the, the, the, the goal of the community and, and the appetite of the potential members of that community and also kind of the sector that it’s in. So for example, in technology and in the, the open source world with, with the collaborative model, we’ve seen remarkable success.

Jono Bacon: (23:20)
We’ve seen like huge projects such as Linux, Cuban, Netties, TensorFlow, uh, OpenStack, Ubuntu. These projects have had massive growth and have really impacted how technology is built and delivered. Um, and the open source is basically the way in which technology is built today. It is the way in which we do business now. And that is fundamentally driven by communities. The companies that succeed. There are the ones that that well, um, but we’ve seen communities in other areas be a little bit more variable. Like I’ve worked for example with some contracting organizations that are focused on construction. And that’s more difficult because a lot of people who work in construction, the people who are the owners, um, and the, the kind of the general contractors, um, they don’t spend, you know, they, in many cases they operate only by phone, sometimes by fax and occasionally by email.

Jono Bacon: (24:13)
So it’s, it’s possible to build strong regional inpost and communities like mixes and events and things like that. But if you want to build a more typical, uh, set of events that’s with, with the electronic pieces that are weaved in, it’s much more complicated to do that because that audience is by definition, they sure they’ve got a phone in their pocket, but they’re onsite most of the time they’re not SAP in front of a computer, then the dynamics are just different. And uh, and there’s, there’s a whole flurry of those pieces in between that sit there. What’s exciting to me is that we’re finding more and more use cases where we see these kind of hockey stick growth curves in new and interesting areas. So I’ll give you one example. Uh, one of the contributors to people power that was really proud of is this guy called Joseph Gordon Levitt, who’s an Emmy award winning actor.

Jono Bacon: (25:02)
He was in Snowden, you know, who was in Looper and all these different movies. And I met him backstage at a conference that we were both keynoting and he built a community called hit record. And this is, it brings together artists, musicians, filmmakers, storytellers. And what they do is they come together to work. On a shared production and many of these productions of being showcased at Sundance and they’ve got hundreds of thousands of artists around the world who are working together on that. There weren’t many communities I’d seen that I’d done that well before, but they, they again, they kind of figured out another piece of the puzzle. So my F my belief is if you have an audience that’s interested in what you do, um, and do you feel like there are ways in which you can provide value to them through technology, support, documentation, events, whatever else you can build a community? Well, and as you were saying that too, I think it’s also important to note that, you know, once you think you have it figured out, think again.

Jono Bacon: (25:57)
You know, it’s interesting you say that. I remember I used to work for a company called canonical and I was there for about eight years and I left in 2014. Uh, and I’d written my previous book, the art of community and now I run a conference called the community leadership summit. I remember leaving the company thinking, Oh, I’ve got this community business all figured out. The amount that I’ve learned last five years is astronomical compared to what I knew back then. And that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to consult because I really, I just came to the conclusion that there’s so much more, I don’t know. Uh, and that makes it fun cause I would hate to be in a position where you feel like, all right, well we’ll figure all this out. I’ve completed the video game. There’s nothing more to learn. So, well, I think that’s the, you know, that’s the beauty and frustration of dealing with humanity, whether it’s customer, right? Customer experience, community management, development. I mean

Jim Rembach: : (26:43)
it just goes, you know, health care, it just goes on and on. Government does. All right. Crazy net. Okay. So when I start thinking about all this, I mean, we have to stay motivated ourselves. Yes. One of the ways that we do that at a call center, uh, the, the, uh, fast leader show is we look at quotes. Um, is there a quote or two that you like that helps to motivate you?

Jono Bacon: (27:07)
You know, um, I’ll be honest with you, I’m terrible at, uh, at remembering quotes and lyrics. Um, but there’s a couple of things that I think relate to this. The one quote that really has always kind of stuck by me is [inaudible]. Uh, I don’t think we really know where it comes from. Yeah. Is this too shall pass? And the idea of being that, Mmm.

Jim Rembach: : (27:29)
Yeah.

Jono Bacon: (27:30)
I think the story is, is that there was some leader of an army years ago who basically, um, you know, lost a huge battle and lost a bunch of his, his army. Mmm. And one of his friends basically went away and, and created this motto. This too shall pass the, he then basically tattooed on his arm and the point was in the worst possible moments, it will pass you, like you will find a way forward. Um, and I’m a huge believer in stoicism, um, this, this notion that we can train ourselves for how to deal with adversity effectively. And it’s a very stoic term. I think this came later than the original Stoics back in thousands of years ago. Um, but also when things are really good and everything’s going great, it’s going to pass too. So, um, you know, again, like I say, I’m pretty terrible with quotes, but stoicism for me is being one of the most critical elements that’s impacted micro.

Jono Bacon: (28:31)
Like if I’m being completely honest with you, when I was younger, I used to worry about everything I was, I wouldn’t say I was fearful, but I was nervous. Um, and I think some of it was I came from a fairly rural background and you know, entered into this ridiculous technology world. And, uh, you know, I didn’t do very well at school. You know, I got two DS in the nnn, uh, well my grades, you know, and uh, but when I discovered communities and the value of, of this, it really kind of transformed a lot of, of, of, uh, of, of what I’ve done. But you always have those doubts and stoicism is an incredibly powerful way. There’s a book called the obstacle is the way by Ryan holiday that I’d encourage everybody to read where it basically says just when things are really difficult, you can find an opportunity that’s inside of that obstacle. Um, and it, that speaks to me, cause I’m frankly a bit suspicious of all of these kinds of self-help people who walk on hot coals and all that kind of business. I just think it’s a bit ridiculous, but I like how practical stoicism is. So

Jim Rembach: : (29:32)
I think that, I think you bring up some really interesting, interesting points in regards to that. Um, I mean, I always refer to my wife as being very stoic. Right. Um, you know, because it doesn’t seem like things rattle her. Yeah. However, inside she be

Jono Bacon: (29:46)
going nuts. Well, the thing is as well is you can’t, you can’t take the humanity. There’s been times in my, in my life where, um, you know, really serious things have happened and I’ve, I’ve remained relatively calm and stoic, but I’ll tell you one thing, if I see you change lanes on a freeway without using your turn signal, it drives me bonkers. Like, it’s just, it’s something about that that winds me up. So, you know, it’s about the human condition.

Jim Rembach: : (30:15)
It is. This is the beauty of it. Okay. So you also mentioned something about the learning that has accelerated for you with doing consulting and having all these tons of different perspectives and work and all that. Um, and so one of the things I think, um, I’d like to talk about is one of the things that’s very common for others. It’s about getting over the hump now, whether or not it’s in relation into the learning or something else, but we can learn a lot by hearing other people’s stories. The one they’ve had to, you know, overcome and triumph and where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share.

Jono Bacon: (30:47)
Oh, there’s been, there’s been a whole bunch. Um, um, I think stories are a really value. They’re a vessel for learning. You know, it’s how human beings share experience, I think. And because part of it in my mind is there is, there is a lesson in every story. Um, and, and it’s, and part of the fun is picking out what that lesson is in some ways. Um, you know, there’s, there’s been various ones across the course of my career. I mean, you know, I mentioned earlier on the fact that uh, I wasn’t a very, um, interested student at school. This is an early example where, um, in England you basically do your GCCS which your basic learning. And I got primarily season that and, but when I started my a levels, which are the two years between finishing school, uh, mandatory education and then going to university, like the level of what goes up significantly.

Jono Bacon: (31:36)
And around that time I joined my first band and I was completely distracted by music and that hence the two days in a nnn and then an N is, I think spelling your name wrong in the paper. It’s that bad. And so I, you know, when that happened, you know, my little 18 year old ego took a pretty serious dent and [inaudible] I was going to be the first person in my family to go to university. And I knew it, it meant a lot to my parents. And uh, so I just, you know, we went to the ultimate, you know, the, the, the, the university ended up going to, and I effectively taught my way in and I said to myself like, I am going to, I’m never going to have that happen to me again. Like I’m going to, it was like a wake up call in many ways.

Jono Bacon: (32:17)
And one of the things that I learned over the years was knowing your own psychology and how your psychology tends to react to things. So one of the things I discovered about myself is that may or may not apply to your, to your audience members is, is having a series of simple goals and also, you know, being a little, and do you think we can actually do this? Like, you know, do you think we could? Because my view is if you don’t ask, you don’t get right. So, um, so I think, um, I think that was one element. Another element of me I think was, was when I started my business, because to be honest with you, I, you know, I’d, I’d left canonical, I’d be an X prize, I’ve been at get hub and I was, I’d always had this urge to see if I could build my own business and run my own consulting practice, um, and learn more about what I’m doing from other companies.

Jono Bacon: (33:10)
But you have that nervousness of is it going to be any business out there? Alright. You know, and my wife was running a startup at the time, so she was taking a very limited salary because all of her value was tied up in equity. And you know, we have a kid. So is this something that’s going to work? And I just had this sense of, you know, wall Sada, I’m just going to get out there and give it a go and see what happens. And uh, and I’ve learned more and more a screw it philosophy. Um, but in many cases it generally works out fine and actually the hardest lessons in your life. Ah, the most valuable ones. Um, I’ll give you one more example that I, I’ve, I’ve mentioned before to some people was, um, I did, uh, I was asked to do a keynote for a very large tech conference called [inaudible].

Jono Bacon: (33:55)
This was five or six years ago. This was in front of five, four or 5,000 people. I had 15 minutes, like a lot of these keynotes and I had my separate 40 minute presentation during the day and I thought to myself and I, you know, 40 minute presentation, no problem. I’d done a load of those. And I was really struggling to put together a 50 minute presentation. And, um, uh, because I like to tell a story in my talks and I as like, how can I do this in 10, 15 minutes? So I got up and I did it and it sucked. It was terrible. It was an objectively bad keynote and they got off the stage and I said to my friend, you know, it wasn’t good, was it? And he said, some people are good at writing short stories and some people are going to write in it.

Jono Bacon: (34:33)
Uh, uh, novels, my friend Steve Wally said that, um, and I got off the stage. I was mortified. I felt like I’d embarrass myself in front of my whole industry and I’d ruin this opportunity. And I thought, what’s the best way to deal with this? So I wrote a blog post that day that said, I just keynote it, OS gone and it was terrible. And these are the things that I’ve learned. Uh, and a lot of people came up to me afterwards and said it was really refreshing to see someone be that open about things. And I think sometimes that’s the approach that I’ve taken to getting over the hump is just challenge yourself, be vulnerable and, and you’ll get them. Well, I think, thanks for sharing that because for me, as I was listening to you, I started also saying that, you know what? You just need to put things behind you.

Jono Bacon: (35:14)
Yeah. Which is hard, easier said than done. Right. But I think some of it, and I don’t know whether this is just me, I just turned 40. I think an element of this is just getting older, of just thinking, you know, wha whatever. Um, sometimes it’s, I think you just got to say whatever. Like I, I always say to myself, my philosophy is I refer to it as my rocking chair moment, which is when I get to be a very old man, uh, hopefully and you know, my friends, uh, have all died off. Um, you know, my gin drinking, uh, lifestyle as, as, as made me healthy. But, um, no one looks back and says, I wish I’d worked more. Everybody looks back and says, I wish had spent more time with my family, with my friends. I wish I’d focused on my passions more.

Jono Bacon: (35:59)
And that is, that is with me every single day. It’s one of the, one of the main reasons why I’m a consultant is because I want to be at home so I can see my son. Like it’s not just work. Then I think some of that is saying, you know, when something goes wrong thinking, is anyone going to remember this? No, probably not. Okay. So we’re not, you know, you talked about this maturation process of yourself and you know, really embarking on what, for me, what I see as the very, very early adopter stage of, of benefiting from, you know, the, and getting the power of of community, even though you’ve been at it for a while, this is still a really new stuff. Um, so, but when I think about goals, um, what is one goal that you have for all of this?

Jono Bacon: (36:43)
Um, the, the one goal, and this is, I like goals to be concrete and this sadly is not very concrete. My goal is when I leave this planet, Mmm. I want us as a species to be better at that, collaborating together in communities. And I want to play a role in shaping that. You know, it’s a fairly broad ambition. Like I know we’re better together as, as a species. I’m sure there are downsides of people getting, like people do get together and they do bad things. But I think as a general rule, the human condition is a kind one. And um, and I want to do everything that I can to understand the blueprint for that and to communicate it outwards. And I don’t think it necessarily means having all of the answers. I think it just means in many cases, packaging up the right answers in a way that’s easily consumable. But that’s my number one goal. Um, I don’t particularly care about, you know, being incredibly wealthy. Uh, you know, perfectly fine financially. That’s my number one goal. So, and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

Speaker 4: (37:53)
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Jim Rembach: : (38:12)
board slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh, okay. Jonah, I hope they hold on is a part of our show where you give us good insights, facts. So I’m gonna ask you questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid response. Is that gonna help us onward and upward faster. Jono bacon. Are you ready to hold down? I do my best.

Jono Bacon: (38:37)
So what is holding you back from being an even better leader? I think what’s holding me back honestly is I need to craft my message better. I think I’m still discovering how to get what I want to do and get the value of this out to a broader audience. So I’m learning every day.

Jim Rembach: : (38:54)
What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Jono Bacon: (38:59)
Um, don’t take yourself too seriously and try hard.

Jim Rembach: : (39:03)
And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Jono Bacon: (39:09)
Mmm, I think one of the secrets is, is I, I’m an eternal student. I’m, I’m always wanting to learn and grow and I look at myself critically, but not too much.

Jim Rembach: : (39:18)
Critically. And what is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Jono Bacon: (39:25)
Um, friends, uh, friends, uh, colleagues. I’ve spent a lot of time not intentionally just getting to know good people and uh, I’m, I’m boosted and Boyd by the great people that I’ve got to know over the years.

Jim Rembach: : (39:39)
And what would be one book that you recommend to our Legion and it could be from Jen, any genre. Of course we’re going to put a link to people powered on your show notes page as well,

Jono Bacon: (39:47)
right? The book that I would read, two books actually if I can have two. Um, the seven habits of highly effective people by Stephen Covey is an unbelievable book for the way in which you approach your life and your career. And I mentioned this earlier on, but the obstacle is the way by Ryan holiday is a fantastic book for really seeing the value that is surrounding us even in our hardest moments.

Jim Rembach: : (40:09)
Okay. Fast leader Legion, you can find links to that. And another bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/jono bacon. Okay. Jono this is my last hump day. Hold on question. But imagine you’ve given, been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can only take one. You can’t take it all. So what knowledge or piece of skill would you take back with you and why?

Jono Bacon: (40:35)
What I would take back is the importance of, of measuring and reacting to what you measure. I wasn’t doing enough of that when I was 25. Um, I was feeling my way forward, uh, in terms of my career and what I was trying to do and, and I wish I had, I wish I’d read more and I wish I had, uh, measured what I was doing and evaluated. I was, as I was doing each day, essentially being a detective, being Colombo, uh, being Quincy to, to, to see what is surrounding me. Uh, I didn’t have that visibility when I was 25 and I would do that in a heartbeat.

Jim Rembach: : (41:16)
John, I’ve had fun with you today. Can you a fast leader Legion, how they can connect with you.

Jono Bacon: (41:21)
Yeah, it’s been a blast and I really appreciate, have me on. You can, people can go to Jonah bacon.com that’s J O N O B bacon, like the delicious meat.com. Uh, and you can find out more about my work, about the, about other things right there. And then also on Twitter is probably another way I’m just, John of bacon is my hashtag and also frankly, I just love to have a really direct relationship with. So if you, I’m happy to for people to email me, Jonah, Jonah bacon.com if there’s anything that you want to talk about, drop me a note.

Jim Rembach: : (41:50)
Jono bacon, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thank you for helping us get over the hump.

 

The post 251: Jono Bacon: Communities supercharge business appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Jono Bacon Show Notes Page Jono Bacon started his journey of building communities as a fledgling young rock star in the UK. As a result of living up to his parent’s expectations he now he provides expertise and advice in this latest era of business. Jono Bacon started his journey of building communities as a fledgling young rock star in the UK. As a result of living up to his parent’s expectations he now he provides expertise and advice in this latest era of business. As an expert in community strategy, management, and collaboration Jono works with Fortune 500 companies, startups, and governments across the globe.
Jono was born in Northallerton, North Yorkshire in England. He lived in Bedfordshire and the West Midlands before relocating to California in 2008 to live with his wife, Erica.
While he has always had an interest in technology, the seed change happened in 1998 when Jono’s older brother, Simon, introduced him to Open Source. Jono was captivated by the notion of people around the world working together to produce technology that they all shared and benefited from. This created a lifelong passion to understand every nuance of how to build productive, engaging communities where a network of minds, experience, and time can produce value together. Just imagine what is possible if we can crack the code for doing this well?
He started dipping his toes into various technology communities, writing extensively for magazines and online outlets, and then joining a new government initiative called OpenAdvantage that provided Open Source training and consulting. As this initiative neared completion, Jono moved on to lead community strategy for Ubuntu, one of the most popular technology platforms in the world, ultimately becoming a community of millions of users.
His career then took him to XPRIZE where he helped launch incentive competitions that solve major challenges (such as the $15million dollar Global Learning XPRIZE to build technology that teaches kids literacy without a teach) and then he went to lead community strategy at GitHub where most of the world’s technology is created.
At this point in his career, Jono wanted to apply the power of building communities to broader range of industries and challenges and he started consulting for a variety range of organizations about community and collaboration strategy. This includes industries such as financial services, entertainment, professional services, non-profits, consumer products, security, and beyond. His clients have included Deutsche Bank, The Executive Centre, Google, Mattermost, Glorious Games, Santander, and more.
As his career has developed, so has his passion for his craft. Jono is determined to leave a legacy in which building powerful, productive, empowering communities is clearer and more predictable than ever before. His book, ‘People Powered: How communities can supercharge your business, brand, and teams’ is the latest milestone on that journey.
Jono is based in California where he lives with his wife Erica and son.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @jonobacon to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet
“We’re stronger together, when you bring people together and they have a shared passion and ethos.” – Click to Tweet
“We’ve seen a number of eras of the relationship between compa...]]>
Fast Leader Show Podcast 42:58
250: Liz Bywater: Slow down to speed up https://www.fastleader.net/lizbywater/ Wed, 06 Nov 2019 07:42:40 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15216 https://www.fastleader.net/lizbywater/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/lizbywater/feed/ 0 <p>Liz Bywater Show Notes Page Liz Bywater learned how to pivot her career after reflecting on her strengths and opportunities. She now teaches others how to slow down so they are able to speed up and move onward and upward faster. Dr. Liz Bywater grew up on Long Island, NY and spent the majority of [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/lizbywater/">250: Liz Bywater: Slow down to speed up</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Liz Bywater Show Notes Page

Liz Bywater learned how to pivot her career after reflecting on her strengths and opportunities. She now teaches others how to slow down so they are able to speed up and move onward and upward faster.

Dr. Liz Bywater grew up on Long Island, NY and spent the majority of her childhood in the small, historic town of Miller Place. She is the middle of three children, with an older brother in Southern California and a younger sister in NY.

Her father was a deeply respected psychoanalyst and her mother a clinical social worker. Both were dedicated to helping others live happier and more successful lives.

Throughout her childhood, Liz was heavily involved in leadership activities. She was president of her high school class and held a variety of other top leadership positions, and she absolutely loved those opportunities.

Liz graduated at the top of her high school class, then spent four extraordinary years as an undergraduate at Cornell University before completing her PhD in clinical psychology. She took her expertise in people and behavior to a variety of settings, working first as a school psychologist, then a clinician in private practice, and finally a strategic confidant to senior executives across the Fortune 50.

Dr. Bywater works with top executives and management teams across an array of companies, including Johnson & Johnson, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AmerisourceBergen, Biotronik, EMD Serono, Nike, Boeing, Thomson Reuters and more. She provides her clients with expert guidance and tools for success, based on more than 25 years of experience and outlined in her popular book, Slow Down to Speed Up: Lead, Succeed and Thrive in a 24/7 World.

Liz is thrilled at the opportunity to have a positive impact on her clients’ lives. She lives in Bucks County, PA, with her teenage son, Jonathan and cat, Pepper. Her daughter, Anna, is studying international business in nearby Philadelphia.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @drlizbywater to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“What are the ways and where are the right places to slow down long enough to make the best decisions?” – Click to Tweet

“There can be a sense of depression that comes with too much work, too much to do and too little time in which to do it.” – Click to Tweet

“This is the way it’s always been done, is almost never a good recipe.” – Click to Tweet 

“You have to create change; you have to get out ahead of things.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s a lot that can be done by protecting time for thinking and planning and talking.” – Click to Tweet

“Success can always be replicated.” – Click to Tweet

“There has to be consistent repeat communications, it cannot stay at the most senior levels.” – Click to Tweet

“Discuss, address, and remedy concerns now to avoid trouble down the road.” – Click to Tweet

“You have to talk about what will we stop doing.” – Click to Tweet

“There has to be a deliberate pause where you give yourself permission to think about things differently.” – Click to Tweet

“Periodically take time where you are thinking through all of what you’ve been through and where you want to go next.” – Click to Tweet

“Be the leader that is most true and authentic to who you are. Don’t try to replicate somebody else’s style.” – Click to Tweet

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Hump to Get Over

Liz Bywater learned how to pivot her career after reflecting on her strengths and opportunities. She now teaches others how to slow down so they are able to speed up and move onward and upward faster.

Advice for others

If you are strong and resilient and confident in yourself and you remain connected to important people in your life, good things will come.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

Making sure that I am clearing things off my plate that are either non-essential, non-value added or I can give to somebody else.

Best Leadership Advice

Be the leader that is most true and authentic to who you are. Don’t try to replicate somebody else’s style.

Secret to Success

I am fortunately able to form really long-lasting and meaningful relationships with my clients.

Best tools in business or life

To make sure I do not try to do everything myself.

Recommended Reading

Slow Down to Speed Up: Lead, Succeed, and Thrive in a 24/7 World

A Brief History of Humankind

Contacting Liz Bywater

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizbywater/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/drlizbywater

Website: https://lizbywater.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work


Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

250: Liz Bywater: Slow down to speed up

Jim Rembach: : (00:00)

Okay, fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show who is really gonna address and uncover really one of the core reasons behind the fast leader show and why it’s called the fast leader show. Dr Liz Bywater grew up on long Island Newark, New York, and spent the majority of her childhood in the small historic town of Miller place. She’s the middle of three children with an older brother in Southern California and a younger sister in New York. Her father was a deeply respected psychoanalyst and her mother, a clinical social worker, both were dedicated to helping others live happier and more successful lives throughout her childhood. Liz was heavily involved in leadership activities. She was president of her high school class and held a variety of other top leadership positions and she absolutely loved those opportunities. Liz graduated at the top of her high school class.

 

Jim Rembach: : (00:55)

Ben spent four extraordinary years as an undergraduate at Cornell university before completing her PhD in clinical psychology. She took her expertise and people and behavior to a variety of settings working first as a school psychologist, then a clinician in private practice, and finally a strategic competence of senior executives across the fortune 50 dr Bywater works with top executives and management teams across an array of companies including Johnson and Johnson, Bristol Myers Squibb, AmerisourceBergen, Biotronik, EMD Serono, Nike, Boeing, Thomson Reuters, and more. She provides her clients with her expert guidance and tools for success based on more than 25 years of experience and outline in her popular book, slow down to speed up, lead, succeed, and thrive in a 24 seven world. Liz is thrilled at the opportunity to have a positive impact in our client’s lives and she lives in bucks County, Pennsylvania with her teenage son, Jonathan and cat Tepper. Her daughter Anna is studying international business in nearby Philadelphia. Liz by Rotter. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Liz Bywater:: (02:02)

I am ready. I’m very happy to be here.

 

Jim Rembach: : (02:04)

Aw, I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Liz Bywater:: (02:12)

Yeah, of course. Well, my current passion is, is twofold. On the personal side, it’s all about, you know, where my kids are at and help helping them become successful, happy young adults. They’re really both on that point of launching into their lives. I’m on the professional front. I’m really enjoying helping executives and leadership teams as they navigate change, which is a very constant theme. I see. No matter which company I’m working with, whether it’s a merger or an acquisition or a leadership change or changes in the economy, you, you’ve heard it all. That’s what everyone’s dealing with right now. And there are lots of ways to really help make that more successful and less overwhelming and stressful.

 

Jim Rembach: : (02:52)

Okay. And when you say that, I start getting this vision in my head, you know, and all of these different pictures and all this, you know, fast track video on all this stuff starts going crazy and I start thinking about this whole speed issue. And then you know what, I have to learn how to actually move better and faster so I can keep up with all that. But that’s not what we’re talking about here.

 

Liz Bywater:: (03:10)

That’s not what we’re talking about here. That is a very natural and very typical response and I do see it across the board and many of my clients now are actually CEOs and some are have been elevated within their current organization. Many are going from one to the next and so there are so many elements on their plate that they have to think about. How do they establish those early relationships? How do they make sure they have the best team on board? How do they create a sense of unified vision and purpose and help clear off the things that are slowing the organization down rather than speeding it up. So that sense of, wow, it’s all going so fast and how do I navigate it? Well, super common, but we really need to talk about what are the ways and where are the right places to slow down long enough to make the best decisions, take the best actions and speed up where it’s really necessary.

 

Jim Rembach: : (04:02)

And the reality is, when you say all of that, if we don’t do that, we’re actually contributing to this massive anxiety crisis that currently exists in our society.

 

Liz Bywater:: (04:10)

Hundred percent, right? There’s so much anxiety across the, the, you know, the society we’re living in, there’s anxiety, there are physical ailments, people are missing work or they’re going to work sick and maybe getting their colleagues sick. Um, family relationship can take a toll and they often do. There can be a sense of depression that comes with too much work, too much to do too little time in which to do it. So yeah, there are very real personal impacts as well as business impacts to continually going too fast all the time.

 

Jim Rembach: : (04:41)

And so when we talk about this too fast thing, it maybe it’d be helpful for us to kind of, um, you know, explain a little bit what we’re meaning by that. Cause I shared with you a story of a friend of mine who is a technology consultant. What she does is people come to her and or hire her to actually go through and determine need from a technology perspective and then select, you know, even the, the right vendors, you know, for certain technologies. And so we started talking about, you know, a decision process that requires some internal analysis, external analysis, you know, a whole lot of, you know, deeper levels of understanding and connection. And she says that she can’t help, I’m a greater than 95% of the people that come to her. Because the problem is, is that they come to her in the 12th hour, not the 11th hour, meaning it’s way too late and they’re just needing to make a decision and get it done and get it in. And she’s like, I can’t, no, that’s just faster. And, and you know, you’re going to be, you’re going to have an outcome that nobody is going to be successful with. And she goes, and I’m just not going to be part of that. And really that’s what we’re talking about here, this rapid acceleration piece, all of these components, we’re just pushing, pushing, pushing, and ultimately we don’t end up moving fast at

 

Liz Bywater:: (05:58)

hundred percent correct. And it’s a great example and I see it in a lot of different contexts. Um, whether it’s, you know, a technology initiative, whether it’s hiring your executive team, whether it’s making a decision to buy or sell a company, uh, whether it’s a decision to take the next leadership position. I mean, there we can go on and on about the types of really important decisions that are made, um, way too fast without sufficient deliberation, um, without sufficient conversation with the people who will be involved in making something successful without taking what I call a strategic cause, which is really, really important. It’s not a luxury, it’s actually the opportunity to be thoughtful and deliberate and, and appropriately cautious in terms of is this a decision and an action that will get us the better, faster, more sustainable results? Or is it something that will lead us so far down the path that is going to cost us time, energy, money, political capital? All of that because as you know, your colleague was saying, when you get there, the 11th, 12th hour, the mistakes have already been made. The investments have been made and almost impossible to undo that kind of damage.

 

Jim Rembach: : (07:08)

Well, and he’s an even as you’re talking, and I started thinking about some of these conversations and even, Hey, I’m even guilty of the things that we’re talking about. I think we’re all [inaudible] nobody’s immune from this. Correct. Uh, so when I start thinking about the ways that we go about coping and defaulting, um, it just, it just contributes to the problems and there’s a lot of biases that take place. Um, and one of the biggest ones that I see that kind of aligns with this is people kind of look at each other and see what they’re doing and say, Oh, I need to do that. That is like one of the worst defaults I think I’ve seen and that we often do every single day. How do we keep ourselves from falling into some of these balls?

 

Liz Bywater:: (07:48)

Well. Um, first of all, you’re right, one of the sort of default mechanisms is if you haven’t had enough time to think and create a plan is to look to your left and your right and see what else everybody else is doing. And most of the time they haven’t taken the time to really think through what’s the correct decision. So then everybody’s doing something either equally wrong or wrong in different directions. Um, and another thing that a lot of my clients fall in into, and again I think we all can do this is well, it’s always been done this way. We’ve always worked with the clients in this certain way. We’ve always sold our product in this way. We’ve always interacted with the FDA in this way, whatever it might be. Always written. All of these reports and the, this is the way it’s always been done is almost never a good recipe because things change and you have to create change.

 

Liz Bywater:: (08:33)

You have to get out ahead of things. You can’t just keep dragging along because that’s the way it’s always been done. So, um, you know, again, the, the solution sounds impossible because we’re all so very busy, but it’s really not once you start taking time, deliberately protecting time, whether it’s blocking it out on your calendar, and I think that’s actually an important tactic. Um, or simply committing to yourself and others that at a certain point every day, every week, every month, every quarter, every year. And for each one of those, if you’re going to set aside a larger period of time, we’re going to sit and really think about what are we trying to accomplish? How do we best accomplish it? What needs to change, what will get us there faster but faster in a good, sustainable, productive way? What are the things that are holding us back? And sometimes that’s the going by default and just following the person to the left and the right. But when you take that time to sit, think, strategize, collaborate, get on the same page, just the people around you, you really do become in a much better position to innovate, grow, avoid repetitive mistakes. I call them, you know, regrettable repetitions. There’s a lot that can be done by protecting time for thinking and planning and talking.

 

Jim Rembach: : (09:47)

Well, in addition, in the book, and I had this conversation just the other day with somebody when they asked me kind of like, you know, what you’ve been working on or what you’re doing or stuff. And I pause for a second. I said, I said, I’m trying to gain expertise in, in becoming a pivot artist. You talk about pivot to give an analysis and you talk about impact. Tell us a little bit about that.

 

Liz Bywater:: (10:10)

Yes. So pivoting, it is very important to be thinking about pivots, pivot points, pivot opportunities. Uh, when I talk about leading through change, any organization that’s facing change, which is every organization is at a pivot point, right? Sometimes they’re small pivot points. Often they’re pretty large. Uh, what I write about in the book is two different kinds of pivot points. Um, and they’re broad categories and we can do a lot with them. Uh, one is pivotal successes and by pivotal successes, I mean, what are those experiences, events, opportunities, etc. In one’s life. And it could be going back to childhood. I’m a clinician by training. So I think the childhood stuff is pretty important in who we are today. Um, or it can be a pivot point among your team in your company and the industry, but what are those positive things that happen? You’ve got a great education and you’ve traveled internationally, you met some fascinating people, you invested widely, you took a great job, you’ve hired well, I could go on and on.

 

Liz Bywater:: (11:04)

Those are all, you know, pivotal successes and we can use those one to build confidence and also success can always be replicated. So when you look at those things and what is it that worked well there that I can bring to my company, bring to my career, bring to the people around me to accelerate success. That’s one piece of it. The other half is what I call pivotal regrets. And again, it’s broad. So pivotal regret is something that happened in one’s life and again, it can go back to childhood or it could be part of your educational years or in your career that somehow was negative. It may be that you made a poor decision that you failed at something that you really wanted to succeed at. It could be something bad that happened to you. It could be something that bad that happened to your company.

 

Liz Bywater:: (11:50)

Um, I mean, this is, this is a huge one. If we think about nine 11, like I was a huge pivotal regret in not only out the United States but across the globe. Not a regret because we created it or we made it happen, but a regret in the sense of it was something really negative that had a very powerful impact and can actually be used moving forward to make things better. So that’s what I talk about and really looking at all the good, bad, and the ugly of the past and not getting stuck there, but figuring out how do we use this to grow and change and improve and be smarter, safer, better, more interesting moving forward.

 

Jim Rembach: : (12:29)

Well, and if you wanted to get a little bit deeper in all of this, as you’re talking, I started thinking about mindfulness. I mean, you mentioned things associated with mindfulness. You started mentioning things associated with, you know, strength analysis, um, strength understanding and being able to, you know, leverage that, um, you know, to go, go forward. Um, because it’s our strengths that actually propel us. Um, if we focus on weaknesses, all we’re doing is just making a bigger anchor, right? Um, we’re not going to move. So we have to be, we have to be really mindful of doing that. Uh, and so when I start, you know, thinking about the ways that you would have broken down ways that people can, you know, avoid the pitfalls, you know, move forward. I mean, you’ve done it, you know, pretty darn quickly, you know, and the book, cause I’ve actually seen, you know, books were, you know, authors and experts attempt to do that.

 

Jim Rembach: : (13:17)

And you know, they put together volumes and volumes. Um, you know, ultimately don’t not distilling it down to what you’ve done here. So I really like the work that you’ve done with this, but when, when you start looking at the way that you’ve broken down the book, you have, you know, a couple of different parts. You have slow down. Uh, and then beat up. Right. And then you culminate it and a list of tools. We’re going to go through those in a little bit, but when you start talking about the slowed down piece to the speed up piece, cause a lot of times, you know, uh, especially in our society, you know, I’ve talked about this, you know, we’re like, Hey just give me the medication man. You know, Hey just, you know, maybe by this man, you know, Hey fire that person, hire that person. Right. It, you know, we, we, we, we make some unfortunate mistakes, you know, that prevent us from actually ultimately getting to the point of acceleration. So when you look at the slow down piece, the getting to the speed up piece kind of give me an understanding of some timelines.

 

Liz Bywater:: (14:15)

That’s a good question. Um, it’s interesting cause people don’t often ask something that’s specific. I’m really glad you’re asking that. It really does vary depending on the situation. So for instance, often the work that I do is within a very large company. I’m working at the C suite with the senior management. And so there’s pressure to go fast, but there’s really, you know, such a great importance to slow down. So one of the ways, for instance we do that is I might go in and meet with the CEO and the executive team for a day or two or three, um, at the beginning of an engagement. And that’s a tough slow down because none of those people really wants to put away their laptop and their notifications and cancel meetings or because everybody’s very, very busy. But taking a few days to sit and get full clarity about what are the key priorities, what’s the strategic direction, what’s our vision?

 

Liz Bywater:: (15:08)

Why are we here, what are we looking to achieve and how do we really get clear that we are taking the most effective path forward? People are clear on who’s going to do what, when, how are they going to help one another, clear away the obstacles. That’s the kind of flow down that actually can lead to almost immediate results. I mean, people can leave that session and start doing things differently right away. Um, there are other situations where I might be working with an individual. For instance, I just had someone come to work with me, uh, who is the head of a surgery department at um, a very large university hospital system and her slow down is, you know, she’s at a point in her career where she may want to do something different. She really needs to take her time to explore what does she want her life to look like? How much more does she want to accomplish in her career? How does she strike the balance? She’s still got children at home. So there are really a lot of things we can look at and there’s no urgency for her to make an immediate decision because she’s got a great job, she’s got a happy life. She’s just really being proactive and looking forward to the next chapter.

 

Jim Rembach: : (16:10)

Okay. When I start thinking about what you’re talking about, I start really getting to the point of, um, we have some strategic elements and issues that ultimately from an organizational perspective have to get down to tactical workflows and movement. And I’ve been talking about this lot and a lot lately where there’s, and in almost all organizations, well, uh, I would, I would say in all organizations, um, there is a disconnect between the head and the feet. Now the reality is, is the disconnection sometimes is just massive, but everybody’s just connected because there’s so many, uh, environmental forces which caused it to occur. Uh, and not just, you know, the internal cultural pieces. And so when I start thinking about the head and the feet moving in concert with one another so that we know we have that strategic alignment down at the tactical side, how is the work that you’re doing up at that top level ultimately filtering its way down so that the hidden, the feet are moving together

 

Liz Bywater:: (17:12)

and the head and feet do you have to move together? 100% you’re completely right. What I found works very, very well is that when I’m working at that top of the organization level, and I’m, we’re not only talking conceptually, you know, about what does it mean to slow down, to speed up. And I’m providing them some very specific tools that they can utilize with their teams. We’re making sure that there is, um, a very practical and compelling message that is cascaded down and across throughout the organization. So for instance, if I’m working with the CEO and the management team, well every one of those people has a set of people working for them. And you know, because we’re at such a high level, every one of those people has a team working for them and so on. Right? So they’re deep and they’re broad organizations.

 

Liz Bywater:: (17:57)

And so we’re creating, what is the messaging around things like staying crisply focused on priorities, helping the organization of what are those priorities, helping everyone know what are the things that have to come off their plate because they are no longer adding value or there simply isn’t time to do them. Well now maybe they’ll get done later. You know, I have ones who called now later, never something never get done because it’s exciting and cool as they may sound. There’s, they’re just not really strategically important right now. Um, but it’s really the cascading of communication. The follow through there has to be consistent repeat communications. It cannot all stay up at the most senior level because that’s just not the way organizations work. And that, I’ll just add one last little piece. Gem there also needs to be opportunity for people who are doing the work of code on the front lines who are really have their hands on, whether they’re customer facing or they’re creating product or they’re doing R and, D, they need to be able to bring information rapidly and quickly to the senior levels. So it’s really a dynamic kind of conversation that needs to happen.

 

Jim Rembach: : (19:01)

Well, yeah, right. So for me is you’re going through all of that. I’m starting to think about, you know, practices and processes and frameworks and all of that that probably just don’t exist in a lot of organizations. I just came back from a conference where we were talking about many of these particular issues and that, especially on the front line, um, you know, the reality is that they have to take care of each individual minute of every single day, uh, in regards to responding to interactions and requests. And all of that. And so oftentimes they’re just, they have their heads down. I mean, they’re getting the work in and out. However, when you start thinking about an organization accelerate and it accelerating oftentimes, well the thing that’s preventing them from doing that is the systems, the way that the way the organization was built. I mean, it’s hard for customers to be able to get served and get product than all of that.

 

Jim Rembach: : (19:53)

It’s hard for employees to navigate the system and ultimately just slows it down. So 80% of the system or 80% of the system issues. However, um, you know, we, we focus in on the individuals just doing their technical stuff and expecting it’s going to fix them. So that means going on what you’re saying about all of that information about, Hey, what’s broken needs to filter up so that again, in concert, the hidden feet moved together so that those people at senior level can help those barriers be moved, can help with enablement. You know, everybody talks about that flipping of the pyramid where you know, the servants, you know, are the executives, you know, and they’re the ones who are enabling the rest of the organization to move. How much of your work goes into flipping that pyramid?

 

Liz Bywater:: (20:35)

I would say a fair amount of the work does. And um, so, and there are a couple of ways this can happen. Sometimes it happens because I’m speaking directly with the employees who have that knowledge and that information who are dealing with the stressors and the difficulties and maybe even to see the opportunities that haven’t yet made their way up to senior levels. For some, sometimes I get the opportunity to have those conversations. That’s the take a look at a warehouse floor, you know, see what’s going on. And that’s really exciting fun work. That’s when you kind of really know what’s happening in a company. Um, and then I have, you know, the, the fun of bringing that up to the senior levels and really making them open their ears because you know, it’s very easy for it to become a dynamic where at one level, well it’s got to happen this way and on another level people are saying, well it isn’t incentive a chance and it won’t and to create a sense of a unified organization.

 

Liz Bywater:: (21:27)

And I actually like to think of that, you know, just in terms of my own way of thinking is us slow down to speed up organization where everyone is taking the time, not only to get everything off the to do list and to, you know, you of course you have to get customer after product in order to have to come in well and all of those things. But without the slowing down so that the right things are getting done by the right people at the right time. The communication is solid and strong and that it’s proactive rather than continually reactive and firefighting. All of those things are very common and there’s gotta be a ways, are ways to shift it and make all of that much better. And the whole organization thrives as a result.

 

Jim Rembach: : (22:05)

Yeah. And that’s exactly why [inaudible] so I said that you have written a book which explains why I called the past leader show why, what I called it. It’s not about the shortcut, um, until acceleration. And in fact, the shortcut is the long road, uh, because you’re gonna accelerate much faster. So it’s like doing it right and in order to help do it right, uh, you talk about these 36, uh, action actions to accelerate success when you’ve broken them down, uh, into, uh, essentially I call them pillars and call them, you know, topic areas. You know, what do you, you can tell us what you refer to them as, but, um, I, they’re called at assess, align, acknowledge, assign, articulate, acquire, address, assist, ask, anticipate, and accentuate. And now here’s the thing. Oftentimes I ask people what’s most important? And the reality is that all of those are, because that is the slow down so that you can accelerate.

 

Liz Bywater:: (23:11)

Yes, that’s exactly right, Tim.

 

Jim Rembach: : (23:14)

Um, I would dare to say that, I mean, they have to be followed in that order. So it’s a step process, isn’t it?

 

Liz Bywater:: (23:20)

Yes, it is, but it doesn’t have to be. So, um, it’s interesting. Sometimes I will meet with a large group of leaders. So, um, you know, I was down in Miami about a year ago and I met with, uh, the CEO and his executive leadership team and then the higher layer of directors and managers below them. So, you know, below within the organizational chart, maybe they were 50 or 60 people there. And, um, we were talking about the things that one can do that are, feel like slowing down, but they really are the path to getting things done faster, better, and with fewer mistakes and less overwhelmed, which is an important piece of it. And so what I did was I’ll show you this really quickly. I’ve created this little deck of cards and it’s simply my slow down to speed up 36 actions to accelerate. So everything that’s in the back of the book I put into this little set of cards.

 

Liz Bywater:: (24:06)

And, um, there are 36 of them. And what we did with this particular group, people had a ton of fun with this and you can do this in a lot of different ways with your, with your team, with your company. If I just randomly put these cards out on people’s desks and asked for volunteers to read a card and talk about ways that maybe they can or would like to implement this in their everyday, not to contest that they haven’t, but to say, Hey, this is something that I really could benefit from. You know, and maybe people could share ideas. So for instance, one card here says address concerns, discuss address and remedy concerns. Now to avoid trouble down the road, it’s just, you know, real simple little thing. And you could take this one card and say, you know what, why don’t we set up a meeting at the end of the day, we’ll take 15 minutes.

 

Liz Bywater:: (24:54)

Nobody’s going to sit down cause we all want to go home. We’re going to stand up, we’ll have our jackets on and we’re going to make sure that in those 15 minutes we are going to call out all of the concerns of the day so that tomorrow morning we all have some direction to hit the ground running. So I mean that’s an example of when you can do really fast, you can certainly take more time to dive deeper. Um, another one, align with other stakeholders and business partners, right? So in an organization and also be with your customers by the way. Um, in an organization, unless you are, you know, a one woman or one man shop and even then, not so much you have to speak to other people. You have to talk about what are we doing, how quickly will we do it? What will we stop doing, who’s doing what, how will we measure success, et cetera.

 

Liz Bywater:: (25:36)

I’ll give you just one more and we can move on. But there are, there are plenty of these. One was addressed. Expectations. Ask a stakeholders, you know, am I or are we meeting your expectations? Where are things going well and where do we need to change things a little bit? Um, you know, how can we revise so that we’re all getting where we need to be more rapidly and with fewer errors and mistakes. And so we can preserve a really good acceleration. Um, so again, this is just a way to make it really easy to use and reference those 36 actions to accelerate success. You can do them in an order or you can just flip through and find the ones that seem most pertinent to you or your organization or your goal at a given time.

 

Jim Rembach: : (26:19)

Well, and as you’re talking though, I start thinking about the fact that, you know, we have conditioned response, meaning that, Hey, this is w con talking about what we’ve always done things this way. We, we’ve always tried to, you know, speed things up, you know, and society pushes us that way and there’s so many factors that cause us to really display these behaviors and it’s just that it is behaviors. So how do know this is behavior modification you’re talking about? That is, it’s very hard to do. So. Yeah. When I start thinking about the transformation, how does that take place?

 

Liz Bywater:: (26:56)

Well, I think there are at least two main pillars to make this happen. One is the internal transformation, and this is not an easy thing to do, but if you are like the people that I work with, and I’m sure you’re this way and I try to be this way, somebody who wants to be very effective, create success, create good outcomes, um, you know, you, you have internalized a sense of pressure, do more, do faster, get more done, get better results. So there has to be a deliberate pause where you give yourself permission to think about things differently and to say, I’m willing to experiment with slowing down a little bit with doing things a little differently. Um, that’s one piece. That’s probably the hardest piece. The second piece is getting agreement with the people around you that we’re going to try something different and we’re not married to it.

 

Liz Bywater:: (27:47)

And if it doesn’t work in two weeks or six months or a year or whatever you agreed to, um, then we’ll consider it. Maybe either it was a failure or we have to try something and tweak it a little bit. But if you get agreement with your coworkers, with your boss, with your customers, that going faster, all the time is not effective and does not lead to true transformation and you’re all willing to be in this experiment together. That’s where you really begin to see change happen. And I will tell you honestly, when I bring these concepts and tools to the customers and clients that I’m working with, people are so relieved that they have permission as well as a set of tools to make a change.

 

Jim Rembach: : (28:31)

Needless to say, and when we start talking about going through this activity, putting the forth all of this effort, we need a lot of inspiration or be able to do that. One of the things that we lack on the show is to focus in on quotes. Do you have a quote or two that you like that you can share?

 

Liz Bywater:: (28:49)

Oh my gosh. Um, there are so many good ones. I’ll tell you one that I’ve come across all the time and you’ve probably heard it. Um, and I think it comes from Richard Branson and Viv attributed to Richard Branson, and I may be slightly paraphrasing, but he poses the question, well, what if we train our people so well that they leave us and by train it could be developed, take care of give opportunities. And the second part of it is, well, what if we don’t? And they stay. So investing in one’s people, investing in yourself, investing in change, it’s not the cost that many people think it is. It’s, it truly is investment with huge returns both on a business and on a personal level. And so I think that one’s a pretty good,

 

Jim Rembach: : (29:41)

yeah, it is. And

 

Liz Bywater:: (29:42)

I think you hit on an important point. It’s like don’t wait on the organization that give it to you. That mean you need to seek it. Do it yourself if it’s not being provided. Absolutely. Yeah. And I do have people come to me sometimes. I mean, often I will work, um, you know, an organization will come to me, a business will come to me, but more and more I’m seeing really smart, proactive people saying I want to be either more effective or I want to navigate the next change, or I’m going into a new organization and I really want to hit the ground running. I don’t want to make the mistakes that will be very difficult to repair inadvertently, you know. Um, and they, they are, they’re investing in themselves and it’s great, exciting work and it always pays tremendous dividends.

 

Jim Rembach: : (30:20)

Um, most definitely. However, I mean, you know, when you start talking about all this and the people coming to you and things like that, all of us have to get over certain humps in order to, you know, learn some lessons and hopefully get an a going in the right direction. Uh, and one of the ways that we actually also learn about avoiding certain pumps and getting over our own is when others share theirs. So is there a hump that you got over that you can share?

 

Liz Bywater:: (30:43)

Oh, yes, absolutely. Um, the idea of pivot points really came to me when I was reflecting on my own career path. I was delivering a presentation to a group of other consultants and advisors and I’m wanting to share with them some of what got me from, you know, early years of being a school psychologist to my clinical work to today where I really have the great opportunity to work with, you know, people in all kinds of companies around the world. And, um, some of the pivots have been personal. Um, one was I lost my dad about 10 years ago and he’s very smart, very inspiring man. And so there was some, you know, personal, deep personal loss that I had to work my way through. Um, and some of the pivots have been simply, you know, uh, the ins and outs of the economy and the way people hire experts such as myself. And so, you know, over the course of time, like any business owner, sometimes things have been thriving and wonderful. Sometimes there have been changes and each time there’s a change or a dip, I recreate and I find new ways to add value. And to hopefully be helpful to my clients and in, in all, in all sorts of new, uh, new, new manners.

 

Jim Rembach: : (31:52)

So I would dare to say that, um, you know, the whole pivot exercise is something that we really should be doing on a regular basis for ourselves,

 

Liz Bywater:: (32:01)

100% because you know, we continue to grow and change all the time. I mean, it’s interesting my early training as a clinician, you know, always thought of those first five years. Your personality is set. Life is set by age five and frankly a lot of what we are is set by age five but most assuredly not all of it. And we are learning more and more the resilience of the brain and uh, the impact of ongoing life experience. And some of that is internal change, some of that is family, some of that is uh, the work that we’re doing. Some of that is the broader world around us. So yes to be periodically taking time where you are thinking through all of what you’ve been, how you’re getting through it, where you want to go next, what your personal vision is really, really timed. Very well said.

 

Jim Rembach: : (32:47)

So with that in mind, and you start talking about pivoting and moving in a certain direction, you’d started talking about iteration and, and, uh, you know, create a creativity and all of those things can help you continue to go. When I start thinking about it, I start thinking about goals that we need to create. And so for you, what’s one goal that you have?

 

Liz Bywater:: (33:04)

One goal that I have is to, and I hate to use the word balance because I don’t think it’s really quite a failure. The word integration is to integrate the growth, um, of the work that I do professionally to continue to work with exciting, interesting executives, you know, in, in companies, uh, far and wide, uh, and also be very presence as my children, uh, grow and expand. And my at my daughter finishes college and my son continues to pursue this music and all of those sorts of things really integrate, um, success involvement, engagement, uh, across the board

 

Jim Rembach: : (33:41)

and the fast leader. Religion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Speaker 3: (33:48)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com

 

Jim Rembach: : (34:07)

four slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for them home. Oh, okay, Liz. The hump day hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust, yet rapid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Liz Bywater are you ready to hoedown I’m ready. Alrighty. So what do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Liz Bywater:: (34:38)

Making sure that I am continually clearing things off my plate that are either nonessential non-value-added or I can give to somebody else.

 

Jim Rembach: : (34:46)

And what is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Liz Bywater:: (34:50)

Be the leader that is most true and authentic to who you are. Don’t try to replicate somebody else’s style.

 

Jim Rembach: : (34:57)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Liz Bywater:: (35:02)

I think one of the things that contributes to my success is the fact that um, I am fortunately able to form really good long lasting, meaningful relationships with my clients. And so we’re able to work together over the course of many years and many opportunities.

 

Jim Rembach: : (35:18)

And what is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or lie?

 

Liz Bywater:: (35:22)

Hmm. So, uh, one of my tools is to make sure that I don’t try to do everything myself and that I have very good colleagues and a mentor of my own that I will work with over many years.

 

Jim Rembach: : (35:33)

Okay. Liz, what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion and it could be for an Asiana of course, we’re going to put a link to slow down to speed up on your show notes page as well.

 

Liz Bywater:: (35:42)

You know, I really liked this book sapiens. Um, it is a fascinating read. It is a very easy read for someone who is not, you know, thoroughly scientific. I don’t know if you’re familiar with this, but it’s very interesting and I’m not quite through it yet, but sapiens is a terrific book to pick up.

 

Jim Rembach: : (35:58)

Okay. Past literal Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/liz Bywater. Okay, Liz, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you have the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and take the knowledge and skills that you have back with you. But you know what, you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill or a piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Liz Bywater:: (36:21)

Oh, 25 that’s an interesting age. I would take back the knowledge that although life has ups and downs and pivots, um, if you are strong and resilient and confident in yourself and you remain connected to important people in your life, good things will come.

 

Jim Rembach: : (36:38)

Liz, I had fun with you today. How can people get in touch with you

 

Liz Bywater:: (36:41)

a couple of different ways? So my website is full of, uh, freebies and access to the book and a contact information. And that’s simply my name, live by water.com, uh, and by waters, just the way it sounds. So it’s Liz DYI water. Um, you can find me on Twitter. It’s dr Liz Bywater. You can find me on LinkedIn. Just Google my name. You’ll find lots of good ways to get in touch with me.

 

Jim Rembach: : (37:04)

Liz Bywater, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. Capacity to Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

 

The post 250: Liz Bywater: Slow down to speed up appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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Liz Bywater Show Notes Page Liz Bywater learned how to pivot her career after reflecting on her strengths and opportunities. She now teaches others how to slow down so they are able to speed up and move onward and upward faster. Dr. Liz Bywater learned how to pivot her career after reflecting on her strengths and opportunities. She now teaches others how to slow down so they are able to speed up and move onward and upward faster.
Dr. Liz Bywater grew up on Long Island, NY and spent the majority of her childhood in the small, historic town of Miller Place. She is the middle of three children, with an older brother in Southern California and a younger sister in NY.
Her father was a deeply respected psychoanalyst and her mother a clinical social worker. Both were dedicated to helping others live happier and more successful lives.
Throughout her childhood, Liz was heavily involved in leadership activities. She was president of her high school class and held a variety of other top leadership positions, and she absolutely loved those opportunities.
Liz graduated at the top of her high school class, then spent four extraordinary years as an undergraduate at Cornell University before completing her PhD in clinical psychology. She took her expertise in people and behavior to a variety of settings, working first as a school psychologist, then a clinician in private practice, and finally a strategic confidant to senior executives across the Fortune 50.
Dr. Bywater works with top executives and management teams across an array of companies, including Johnson & Johnson, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AmerisourceBergen, Biotronik, EMD Serono, Nike, Boeing, Thomson Reuters and more. She provides her clients with expert guidance and tools for success, based on more than 25 years of experience and outlined in her popular book, Slow Down to Speed Up: Lead, Succeed and Thrive in a 24/7 World.
Liz is thrilled at the opportunity to have a positive impact on her clients’ lives. She lives in Bucks County, PA, with her teenage son, Jonathan and cat, Pepper. Her daughter, Anna, is studying international business in nearby Philadelphia.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @drlizbywater to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet
“What are the ways and where are the right places to slow down long enough to make the best decisions?” – Click to Tweet
“There can be a sense of depression that comes with too much work, too much to do and too little time in which to do it.” – Click to Tweet
“This is the way it’s always been done, is almost never a good recipe.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15188 https://www.fastleader.net/scottwarrick/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/scottwarrick/feed/ 0 <p>Scott Warrick Show Notes Page Scott Warrick had a client that all of a sudden stopped communicating with him. After several attempts to connect without response, Scott learned he said something that offended someone during a workshop. After losing a lot of sleep, he resolved himself to the fact that he needed to take care [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/scottwarrick/">249: Scott Warrick: Resolving employee conflict is simple</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Scott Warrick Show Notes Page

Scott Warrick had a client that all of a sudden stopped communicating with him. After several attempts to connect without response, Scott learned he said something that offended someone during a workshop. After losing a lot of sleep, he resolved himself to the fact that he needed to take care of himself to move forward.

Scott Warrick was born and raised in Newark, Ohio. His father was a machine operator at Kaiser Aluminum and his mother was a secretary. He was the perfectly placed middle child, with a sister three years older than him, Pam, and Kelly, a brother three years younger than him.  Kelly passed away suddenly in January of 2018 at the age of 53. Kelly was one of Scott’s closest and dearest friends.

Scott paid for his own undergraduate degree by working at Owens Corning Fiberglas making ceiling tile and packaging glass wool. That was also the first union Scott joined. He was part of the GBBA, or Glass Bottle Blowers Association. Scott went onto work several jobs while carrying a full load of classes at The Ohio State University. In 1983, Scott earned his undergraduate degree in Organizational Communication. This is the degree Scott uses more today than all the others. Resolving Conflict is always the key.

Scott then started his career in human resources by holding a dual role at the Kirby Vacuum Cleaner Company. He was their Director of Human Resources by day and a vacuum cleaner salesman by night and weekends.

To earn money for his graduate degree, he worked in another factory, Kaiser Aluminum. That was the second union Scott joined, the Steelworkers. Scott then graduated from The Ohio State University in 1986 with his Master of Labor & Human Resources degree.

Scott then worked in human resources in various organizations throughout the later 1980s. At that time, the law was swallowing HR. So, while he was working as the Director of Human Resources at First Investment Company in Columbus Ohio, he was accepted at Capital University College of Law in 1992. Scott graduated from Capital in 1996 as Class Valedictorian (1st out of 233).

Scott then practiced traditional law from 1996 to 1998, but absolutely hated it. Scott always believed every lawsuit could be avoided if the parties just grew up, which is Emotional Intelligence, and addressed and resolved their conflicts.

Scott started his own private dual practices in 2001: Scott Warrick’s Human Resource Consulting, Coaching & Training Services (www.scottwarrick.com) and Scott Warrick’s Employment Law Services (www.scottwarrickemploymentlaw.com).

Today, Scott focuses most of his attention on working with clients to build their levels of Emotional Intelligence, which is vital to leadership skills, and to help them better resolve their conflicts, which means using the system he developed called EPR, which stands for Empathic Listening, Parroting, and “Rewards.”

Scott’s book, “Solve Employee Problems Before They Start:  Resolving Conflict in the Real World”  was written to help people do just that and make their lives better.

Today, Scott’s lives in Reynoldsburg, Ohio. He was been married to his wife Lisa for the last 32 years. They have two sons, Michael, who is in graduate school studying for his Master’s degree in Psychology at Roosevelt University in Chicago, and Nicholas, who is studying to become a Physical Therapist at The Ohio State University.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @ScottWarrick to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“If you can not address and resolve conflict in your life you are never going to be happy.” – Click to Tweet

“You will never go anywhere in your career if you don’t address and resolve conflict.” – Click to Tweet

“Customer service is easy as long as everything goes well.” – Click to Tweet

“The hardest thing you’ll ever do in this world is to control yourself.” – Click to Tweet

“Once you understand the brain you understand why you and I do the dumb things we do.” – Click to Tweet

“We are wired to get divorced and fired.” – Click to Tweet

“We have a brain that is wired for fight or flight.” – Click to Tweet

“Five seconds is the difference between success and failure.” – Click to Tweet

“We have developed an attack style mentality that we think everybody has a negative intent.” – Click to Tweet

“If somebody is really upset it means that their brain is flooding with adrenaline and cortisol.” – Click to Tweet

“We lose our short-term memory because we treat our brains like soccer balls.” – Click to Tweet

“Other people are allowed to have their opinions.” – Click to Tweet

“A human can turn on you in 17,000th of a second.” – Click to Tweet

“Your brain moves at 268 miles an hour; you can talk at 50.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s no such thing as a personality conflict.” – Click to Tweet

“You cannot have a relationship with someone that does not communicate.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s never going to be a replacement for talking to people.” – Click to Tweet

“Take care of your brain, you’re going to be so much better.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Scott Warrick had a client that all of a sudden stopped communicating with him. After several attempts to connect without response, Scott learned he said something that offended someone during a workshop. After losing a lot of sleep, he resolved himself to the fact that he needed to take care of himself to move forward.

Advice for others

Everything is Emotional Intelligence. It’s first base.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

The constant struggle to remain sane.

Best Leadership Advice

There’s never going to be a replacement for talking to people.

Best tools in business or life

I’m able to relax when I need to relax.

Recommended Reading

Solve Employee Problems Before They Start: Resolving Conflict in the Real World

Daniel Goleman Books

Contacting Scott Warrick

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottwarrickconsulting

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ScottWarrick

Website: https://scottwarrick.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

146: Steven Stein: I can fade out a bit

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

249: Scott Warrick: Resolving employee conflict is simple

Jim Rembach: : (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who may I share several passions and can really help us understand some of the basic and core fundamentals about us as human beings and how we can actually become better in the workplace and live. Scott Warrick was born and raised in Newark, Ohio. His father was a machine operator at Kaiser aluminum and his mother was a secretary. He was a perfectly placed middle child with a sister three years older than him. Pam and Kelly are brother three years younger than Kelly. Passed away suddenly in January of 2018 at the age of 53 Kelly was one of Scott’s closest and dearest friends. Scott paid for his own undergraduate degree by working at Owens Corning fiberglass making ceiling tile and packaging glass wall. That was the first union that Scott was part of. He was part of the GBA, the glass bottle blowers association.

 

Jim Rembach: : (00:56)

Scott went on to work several jobs while carrying a full load of classes at the Ohio state university in 1983 he earned his undergraduate degree in organizational communication. This is the degree Scott uses the most today than all the others. Resolving conflict is always the key. Scott. Ben started his career in human resources by holding a dual role at the Kirby backing cleaner company. He was their director of human resources by day and a vacuum cleaner salesman by night and weekends, so earn money to earn money for his graduate degree. He worked in another factory, Kaiser aluminum. That was the second union. Scott joined the steel workers. Scott then graduated from the Ohio state university in 86 with his masters of labor and human resources degree. Scott then work in human resources and various organizations throughout the later 1980s at that time, the law was swallowing HR, so while he was working as the director of human resources at first investment company in Columbus, Ohio, he was accepted at capital university college of law in 1992 and Scott graduated from capital in 96 as the class valedictorian first out of two 33 Scott then practice traditional law from 96 to 98 and absolutely hated it.

 

Jim Rembach: : (02:09)

Scott always believed that the lawsuit could be avoided if the parties just grew up, which is emotional intelligence and addressed and resolve their conflicts. Scott started his own private dual practice in 2001 Scott Warrick’s, human resource consulting, coaching and training services and Scott works employment law services today Scott focuses most of his attention on working with clients to build their levels of emotional intelligence, which is bottled to leadership skills and to help them better resolve their conflicts, which means using the system he developed called E P. R, which stands for empathetic listening, parroting and rewards. Scott’s book solve employee problems before they start resolving conflict in the real world was written to help people do just that and make their lives better. Today, Scott Scott lives in Reynolds, Burt, Ohio. He was married to his wife. He’s been married to his wife, Lisa for 32 years and they have two sons, Michael, who is in graduate school studying for his master’s degree in psychology at Roosevelt university in Chicago and Nicholas, who is studying to become a physical therapist and are at the Ohio state university. Scott work. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? Oh yeah. Looking forward to it. I’ll set, you know, I’m glad you’re here but I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you and, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Scott Warrick:: (03:27)

I’ve got a very unusual practice. Okay. First of all, I start from the premise. Uh, there is never a reason to go to court. Okay. And I will tell you right now, I’ve been practicing law for almost 25 years. I have never seen anybody who went to court that was glad they did it. Okay. People go to court and it’s really funny. People get all mad and everything. Uh, that’s wonderful. And then the bills start coming in. Okay. I’ll tell you, resolving conflict is make it really clear. If you cannot address and resolve conflict in your life, you are never going to be happy. You will probably get divorced. Number one cause of divorce is what I just told you right there. Number one, not addressing conflict, which we’ll talk about more. You’re going to get a union, you’re going to get sued. I nothing works if you can’t address and resolve conflict.

 

Scott Warrick:: (04:23)

And I will tell you right now, that is my passion that I, I go in and I train people. I love it when people, it’s really funny. Somebody read the book and I got a call from them and this is the most rewarding part of my day. I got this email from somebody, said she loved the book. She said, if Shida had this book five years ago, she’d still be married. And I’m like, I know, I know. It, it, it is very simple principles, but this is, you will never go anywhere in your career if you don’t address and resolve conflict. That’s my passion.

 

Jim Rembach: : (04:57)

Well, and I appreciate you sharing that and you and I share a couple couple things. Well, several of them are quite frankly, um, our love of baseball. Uh, we’re also both certified by MHS out of Canada and their EQI 2.0 system. I’ve also had Dr. Steven Stein, uh, who is the president of MHS on the show. And when I started thinking about this whole issue that you’re referring to, I mean it’s so much revolves around the whole self-discovery element. Cause a lot of times in conflict we’re pointing our fingers outward. And you know how the old saying goes when you do that, there’s three pointing back at you. Right? And that is true. It is so true. And through the book though, I mean there’s several different elements I that I want us to talk about and I want to make sure we get them, get through them all. But you at the very beginning you talk about customer services, employee relations, and vice versa. Kind of tell us what you mean about that.

 

Scott Warrick:: (05:50)

This is a big part of my practice because most people are in a company that I go into and it’s really because customer service is really pretty easy as long as everything goes well. Employee relations is a piece of cake. As long as everything goes well and that theory holds up well. If you start work at eight o’clock that holds up well until about eight Oh two okay. And here’s my premise and this is, and I’ll tell you, I love, we’ve talked a little bit about this and you’re going to, if you read the book, you get double doses of neurology. I can’t look at somebody and talk to them without looking at their forehead and their brain and wonder what’s going on up there. Okay? Um, and I’ll tell you it, when there’s conflict, you got an upset customer, right? They come in, they’re mad, okay?

 

Scott Warrick:: (06:42)

There is no difference between the conflict resolution, low resolution skills. And when I say, well, use this term later, verbal Jeet, verbal G is the term I came up with because I’m a towering five foot seven. I’m a monster, okay? I was actually this size in a junior high and everything, which why I made a good catcher, okay? Big and everything. But then I stopped growing. Everybody else got bigger. So, uh, if you cannot control yourself now to, I’m very sympathetic. Hardest thing you’ll ever do in this world is control yourself. And I have illegal windows in my car. They are illegal. They are too dark. I paid $185 fine every time I get pulled over. But I’m telling you, we all lose it. It’s better control. Okay, so got it. If you can control yourself, that’s emotional intelligence. Second is you got to resolve conflict.

 

Scott Warrick:: (07:40)

If you are ever in a conflict, you use those skills. You talked about E P R and Catholic listening, parenting and rewards. Those two together are verbal G. and if you’ve ever studied martial arts, which I have because I’m such a big guy, um, and that is resolving conflict. Now you give me a conflict with a customer. They’re the exact same skills. You have a conflict with an employee. They’re the exact same skills. So I get calls, it’s really funny. I’m doing customer service training next week and then I got a couple of resolving conflict in the workplace. Then we, after that, I got a call from a client saying, Hey, I know you do this conflict stuff with employees, but do you do something with customer service? So I just changed the title.

 

Jim Rembach: : (08:29)

It’s very true. And so for us, no. Um, and so let’s kind of go through that from a journey that we talked about, you know, self and inward looking, realization, actualization, all those things about self. Because the things is, well, we can work. We’re going to have a very, very difficult time being able to engage in any type of conflict. Uh, if we, we haven’t really done that work. Uh, and then also when you start talking about engaging in conflict, I think that’s where we see oftentimes people just Stonewall and you talk about that. It’s like, Hey, I don’t know how to do that. I don’t like that. It’s uncomfortable to me, so therefore I’m just gonna be quiet, shut down and just avoid it. And we can’t do that. Um, and that, that’s causing even more problems. And so it’s a magnifying effect that’s occurring.

 

Jim Rembach: : (09:13)

But we won’t go into that. And that’s a whole nother episode. I agree with that 1000%. So let’s talk about the [inaudible] in the book. You really hit and explain really well, uh, the neurology of EQs. And I think you and I even started talking about that. I see. I said, even yesterday, I had a hiccup, you know, in my neurology of EEQ because quite frankly, if I stop and dissect it, I did it myself. You know, I drank too much coffee. I didn’t get enough sleep for two days in a row. I mean, there’s several factors that came into play that I tried to tell a joke in it. And it was, it was backfired. It was stupid. Um, you know, and I offended somebody. It was like, you know, and I, I did, you know, I fell off my horse. Right. But if you can’t talk to us about the neurology of VQ and why it’s so important here.

 

Scott Warrick:: (10:00)

Yeah. Oh, it’s everything. And it’s really funny because I’m doing a full day session on the brain and let me tell you, I am obsessed with the brain because once you understand the brain, you understand why you and I do the dumb things we do. And let me just start off with this discussion. Humans, the saddest animal on the planet. All right? We’re the only animal that knows we’re going to die. The only one. So we’re the only ones who have the frontal lobes to worry about retirement. Okay? My cat, my cats, I have four cats and two dogs. That’s for therapy, okay. Uh, they don’t worry about anything, you know, then when we’re done in it. So first of all, we worry about things, okay? But we pride ourselves on our frontal lobes. We are wired to get divorced and fired. So they think about this, you and I now, and I’ll tell you this, I have to be very careful here because I took off people from the Bible bell, okay?

 

Scott Warrick:: (11:02)

Who are creationists and I get really nasty letter and I get death threats. I think that people take off their, what would Jesus do? And send me a death threat from the library cause I can’t track it, but please listen closely. What I’m saying, we have not evolved in 5,000 years. Now, creationists agree with this because they think the world is 5,600 years old. I have dear friends who are creationists, okay? And I don’t want to offend anybody, but let me tell you, if you’re a creationist, do you believe that the world is 5,600 years old? So 5,000 years ago, Fred Flintstone lived right here in Columbus, Ohio where I am right now. Okay? Uh, if you are an evolutionist and evolutionary theory, very clear man stopped evolving 10 to 50,000 years ago. So guess what? Everybody’s in agreement 5,000 years ago now, really get this, you and I live here, uh, out in the woods.

 

Scott Warrick:: (12:04)

Now we’re bigger and faster and stronger now, but that’s because of nutrition. Things like this. But really think about this. 5,000 years ago, 30% of everybody you and I know will have either been eaten by a wild animal or killed by another human. Yeah. Think about this. We got a brain that was wired, is wired for fight or flight. You and I are not wired to take the middle road. You and I are wired to run away or to attack all communication theory. Whether you look at crucial conversations, whether you look at [inaudible], whatever, okay? They’re all based on fight or flight. I use the terms retreat or an attacker, but it’s all the same. It’s what I studied back in the 80s with Ohio state. So you and I are wired for this now our emotional system, which is basically our amygdalas thinking of recent, this is two 1992 is when we discovered Dr. Joseph LeDoux discovered our amygdalas amazing in 17 thousands of a second.

 

Scott Warrick:: (13:16)

Our emotions kick it, and I like to put this in real world terms like you and I standing outside in the summer, we’ve all been bitten by mosquito. We turn and we smack the mosquito before cognitively we even know what happened. Our frontal lobes, our logical brain, two or three times at least slower than our emotional system. And if you’ve ever seen somebody just lose it and then they say, I don’t know what came over me. Well human came over you. Okay? So the vast majority of us, and when you understand the workings of the human brain, you understand that if you and I were wired to logically reason things out, deal with problems and our emotions would kick in later, all those people were eating that they didn’t live. Okay? Cause you and I’d be standing there and we’d see a lion. We take off, our ancestors took off there.

 

Scott Warrick:: (14:19)

We have some ancestors that would say, huh, what, what he’s going to do? And it’s too late. Okay. So really thank God for the slow witted. You know, humans, I’ll tell you, the people who survived are the ones who react first and think later worked great 5,000 years ago. It is net right there. Number one cause of divorce. That right there is each cue. You cannot separate brain health and understanding the brain and EEQ. That’s why I tell in the book and all my patients, all my clients, um, I’ll tell you, here’s a rule you got to follow. Five seconds is the difference between success and failure. I mean, you want to play a game, I’ll play a game. I’m gonna play a game. This is fun. I love this. Let’s do it. Okay. I’m going to give you a word to say. The word is joke. Now you and I are going to say this word together 10 times. Then I’m going to ask you a question. You give me an answer to what you’re saying. Okay, so all set. Let’s do it. Ready? Ready. The words joke. Joke, joke. Joke. You say it with me. Okay, here we go. Okay. Alright, ready? Go. Joe. Joe, Joe, Joe. Joe. What do you call the white part of the egg yolk? No, no, no, no jam.

 

Scott Warrick:: (15:40)

Here we go. Everybody falls for that. I really wanted to say, yo, everybody listening to this wants to say, Oh, it’s egg shell. A farmer’s. Call it all the human. Okay. So that’s how we’re wired. And the thing is, you’re a Miguel. Let’s have a memory system of their own subconscious, part of your subconscious. And so this gets into, if you don’t slow down in sync, I always love this people, they don’t slow down and think, and some star, someone famous, uh, is going to let loose before the end of this month. Racial slurs under floors, a religious slurs, something it’s going to ruin their career and people, Whoa. Where did that come from? It came from your Nicholas.

 

Jim Rembach: : (16:26)

Sure. Yeah. Let’s see, what did you say in that? I think we, we’ve gotten, unfortunately, I think sometimes it depends. Well, I think the pendulum swung too far is that we, we’ve lost compassion, um, or people actually being human and, which is to me is just a little bit of form of irony. I mean, yeah. You know, there’s a friend of mine who I had on the show, some of the beginning stages of, of the fast leader show, and there’s one thing that he said that always sticks with me. He says that, Hey, look, people, you know, no babies died here.

 

Scott Warrick:: (16:58)

Yeah,

 

Jim Rembach: : (17:00)

you’re, you’re overblowing things. And it’s like, it’s true. I mean, yeah. Okay. So your feelings, you know, we’re, we’re hurt. Right. You know, you were offended, but that goes back to the emotional intelligence thing and you talked about the whole, you know, they took off their, you know, what would Jesus do bands in order to be able to attack you? Uh, it’s like, look, you know, this whole inclusion issue, a diversity issue, um, I, I hate to say it, but it’s both sides that are not using their emotional intelligence.

 

Scott Warrick:: (17:28)

Oh, I have every right. And I agree with you saying 100% the difference between success and failure for both sides, it’s five seconds. You think five seconds you will know that yolks are yellow. Okay. And so exactly like you’re saying, we have developed a society that has cell phones. Okay. I mean, I’ve done dumb things in my life. We all have. But the difference today is that if you do something, someone’s going to record it and it might ruin you. And what you’re saying right there is we have taken on a mentality that says, I should never be offended. Let me tell you. United States Supreme court made this very clear in 1993 Harris vs forklift systems, great case to read. Uh, you are going to be offended. You’re going to be offended when you leave the house. You know, there was actually great, great example of this on if you ever watched duck dynasty, Neil Robinson, okay.

 

Scott Warrick:: (18:28)

Lives out in the by you and everything and ms Kay wanted to move into a multimillion dollar neighborhood and everything and he said, you know, you miss Kay can do whatever she wants to do. I just want to be able to go and whenever I want, just pee off my front porch. Well I don’t care how much money you got. Okay. People going to be offended and that is rightfully so you, you can’t do whatever you want to do on your front porch. You can’t do whatever you want to do cause you’re going to be offended. And we, we have developed, and I’ve got this in my next book that I’m working on because it gets into trust and things like this. We have developed an attack style of mentality that we think that everybody has a negative intent and they don’t. We attack people and I don’t know if you Google the Missouri Mizzou communications professor who literally attacked a young Asian photographer for taking pictures at a rally and she thought, she calls me, she needs a muscle over here. I’m like, wait a minute. You’re assuming right away because this tells me how you think this is how you’re primed and this how you project onto the world. Which honestly I think you might need to be assessed. Okay. But you seem to think because somebody’s offended you that they had negative intent and that now you’re going to attack and you’ve got every right. No, most people have positive intent. This month I got accused of using a racial shorter because I talked about the old days when I was growing up and I showed a picture of monkey bars.

 

Scott Warrick:: (20:06)

I had an African American woman got really upset and she put on there that I was offensive should never be allowed back cause that’s a racial swore. And I’m like, honestly, I’ve never heard that one before. So you are absolutely right. We are developing an attack stock. And again, we’re human. And, and again, let me just make this fairly clear. I am dealing, I’m representing different people pro bono because they are being sexually harassed at work or racially harassed at work. Uh, and I’ll tell you, I’m not an employee, an employee or attorney or an employee E attorney. I represent people who I believe are right. That’s what I decide and that’s who I protect. But all these folks that got protections, I will tell you there are people that if you compliment somebody’s hair, Oh, you had negative intent or use the term monkey bars or something like this and they’ll find the George on, you know, you’re right. We’ve got to get some humanity, but we gotta stop and take that five seconds and think, do you think this person had negative intent or positive intent? And most people really have positive intent. They really do. Some people don’t, but most people do.

 

Jim Rembach: : (21:17)

Yeah, most definitely. Now I think with, with that, um, you talk about three styles of communication that kind of can, you know, give a lens into what you were talking about in regards to this reactionary, uh, you know, behavior that we have or you know, even going in stonewalling piece. Look, you can’t talk about those three styles.

 

Scott Warrick:: (21:36)

Yeah. And, and just picture a baseball diamond, cause honestly, 60% of the brain is visual. Okay. And I always love this one. I’m a visual learner. Why don’t you and 7 billion other people on the planet. Okay. Cause uh, which we’re all wired at the basic, the same. Okay. Uh, and I’ll tell you just for your listeners, go Google the human genome project. We’re all related. Now let’s leave it at that. That’s why we’re all wired the same. But fight or flight, okay. We are all hardwired to attack into retreat. And my stereotypical people that I use for this Simon cow, okay. Now I don’t know what he’s like in his personal life, but he has this stereotypical reputation for being an attack. Okay. Well, we all know people who are tell it like it is. I’m an honest person, a or you just have to understand, I feel very strongly about this, which gets back to the point you were making.

 

Scott Warrick:: (22:32)

If I feel strongly about this, I got a right to rip your head off. No. Okay. That will end very badly for you. Alright? And I will tell you, you attack a human, and I’ll tell you this stuff, you ever attack, if you, you’re taking your life into your hands. Human animal is why is seven times more likely to kill you and all other 1024 mammals on the planet? We are seven times more deadly than any other animal on the planet. We kill for form. Okay? So that’s our fight. Now, most people that you and I know, and I call them, those are the attackers. Most people that you know and I know are nice people. Their aunt B from the, the the Andy old Andy Griffith show. So all your gen liars and gen Z are probably gonna have to Google that or do some research on TD land.

 

Scott Warrick:: (23:30)

Okay? Oh, you just offended an entire group. I just picked on the gen Z years and they were not blessed with the Andy Griffith show like I was growing up, but she’s so nice. Oh, she’s so sweet. She bakes pies. She’s an evil heartbeat. Okay. Every time there’s a conflict, she’s a nice person. I’ll smile to your face and then at the same time, I will go sit with my own bitty friend, my old city friend, Clara at the kitchen table and talk about her behind her back. Okay. That’s what I call retreating. Those are the passive aggressive. Now I’m kind of half tongue and cheek, but I will tell you, give me an attacker any day that the coach, they’re easy to coach because it’s like you just yelling to an employee. Yeah. If y’all know this employee, would you talk to a customer like that? Would you talk to the CEO like that?

 

Scott Warrick:: (24:25)

Well, no. Then what makes you think we’re going to let you talk to the biggest part of our budget like that and the people who execute our strategic goals? No, they’re actually easy. Okay. And I’ve never met an attacker that I didn’t send for a psychological assessment because I want him to get better. It’s not an insult. I want them to get better readers. Okay? And I want you to think of all the problems, number one, cause of divorce right there. It’s really funny, since the book came out, I’ve got a couple of conferences and sessions to do with marriage counselors and I’m like, you kind of understand I’m a lawyer. I’m kinda like the opposite of like marriage counseling. And they said no. So you got it. It’s, it’s, people said it. Marriage counseling at 100 bucks an hour. Talk about things. They should have been talking about the kitchen table for the last five years.

 

Scott Warrick:: (25:15)

And I want you to think how evil you are. An enabler. And I’ll tell you, I’ve got a real passion for this right here. Just nothing irritates me more than a passive aggressive. I think Jerry Sandusky, very Sandusky, uh, was caught in 1971. Okay. So I love this in the digital age, if you think you’re going to hide anything, forget it. Okay. In 1971 Penn state settle a child molestation case on behalf of Jerry Sandusky didn’t fire him. He wasn’t caught by the Patriot news until 2011. Now I ask all my audiences, it’s like okay and in the book, okay for that 40 year period, who’s responsible for all those little boys who were raped, if all the people who knew and didn’t do anything about it. So, and I’ll tell you right now from a legal perspective, my hats off to the EOC, I usually don’t compliment the federal government but uh, I’ll tell you their new guidelines for keeping harassment and bullying out of the workplace.

 

Scott Warrick:: (26:24)

They say you got to have bystander intervention and I agree with that 100%. If you’re going to stand by and watch somebody get sexually harassed, somebody get racially harassed or God help you, somebody who is yelling slurs at somebody cause they have a disability. Oh my. Um, if you didn’t get involved, you’re, you’re in trouble too. And I don’t know if you are watching the series or anything. See the New York Yankee fans yelling all kinds of disabilities, slurs at the Astros pitcher who is suffering from anxiety and depression. I will tell you right now, there is no difference in this world of yelling a disability slur at somebody and using the N word or the B word, the C word, the D word, whatever word you want, every bit is bad. So see now you kind of see why you don’t move up in our careers. We’re not happy cause we’re not addressing.

 

Jim Rembach: : (27:20)

Yeah. And so you talk about how we can actually, you know, moving up how we can, you know, so it’s EEQ it’s understanding itself back to realization, the realization, you know, doing some of that understanding your brain and how your brain works and we all, the reality is we all either need a coach, you know, or you know, a physician, you know, to help us to make sure that we’re working at our optimal level. We have all these things in society that are just fighting against us, which includes our diets. I mean, all of these things. I mean, all these people are talking about anxiety. We medicate the heck out of them. We don’t, we don’t help them, you know, really work through them and become their best. And there’s all these different factors that just keep compounding. Now one of the things that you’re offering as a way to kind of help us through that is the verbal G you talked about it and you mentioned it. Help us understand what [inaudible]

 

Scott Warrick:: (28:07)

perfect segue. That is the middle road. Don’t move to the left. Don’t move to the right cause both of those will be your undoing. They’ll be bad for you. So what do we want to do? First of all, and this is a, I know this is a really controversial topic. You have to be honest. And we all grew up with lying parents that were driving someplace or Oh yeah, well you know, daddy had this removed or aunt Betty had this. Don’t talk about this. Okay. And don’t mention this, but okay, first of all, I have a relationship with folks. Okay, so you’re going to be on, and that right there, I’ll tell you, that’s the hard part. The EEQ first base. I have had executives where I almost literally have to grab them by the scuff of the collar and drag them down the hall just to go in and address an issue with an employee.

 

Scott Warrick:: (28:57)

Okay. And we’ve all been there. I get these calls where somebody has been not doing their job or whatever for months. I got this one client, that gym down in Tennessee, he goes, Oh, she’s terrible employee. She’s just awful. She’s been doing this and this and this. It’s been six months. Can I fire her? And I’ll say, well have you, have you talked to her when you talk to her? What did she say? Oh I haven’t talked to her yet cause I don’t wanna upset her. Can I fire her? And I’m just, okay so you see this big hump right there. And so, okay, so what do I do once I sit down? He, he all are and understand, I like simple concepts. Very simple cause think about it, I got clients that range 10 employees to 50,000 okay. How are you going to get the same concept through to everybody?

 

Scott Warrick:: (29:51)

I can tell you getting it through to 10 people is difficult. Okay, so what do we do? All you do, you got to go talk to them and use your EPR skills. So the first thing you do, and I always use this as an example, always take a chair with me when I train because I have to sit in a chair. I like to sit back and just sort of relax and say, use my EPR skills, which starts with empathic listening. You know, we’re having a bit of a problem with this project or you know, your attendance has kind of been a problem or I understand there’s a problem between you and Sally, what’s happening.

 

Scott Warrick:: (30:26)

The key is bringing up the issue in shutting up. Okay? So EPR is just like CPR and it’s so easy to remember. But I’ll tell you, if you’re ever in a clash and we’re in a conflict with the customer or relative, your spouse, your kids, an employee, you sit down, bring it up and then shut up. Okay, because let’s just talk about the customer service or you got an employee, he’s really upset. If somebody is really upset, that means their brain is flooding with adrenaline and cortisol. Okay? Uh, which means you’re damaging your brain. You ever noticed that when you get flustered and frustrated and you can’t remember stuff, that’s because your emotional system, your medulla is, are connected. Sitting right beside, right behind your hippocampus, your short term memory transmitter, so all that cortisol and adrenaline, that’s your flooding is literally burning and frying your hippocampus. That’s why we lose our short term memory by our forties and 50s.

 

Scott Warrick:: (31:29)

We’ll do that. Don’t do that. The brain, the neurons in your brain have a life expectancy of 120 years. Never lose your short term memory ever. You should be on your deathbed. Your body will give out first, but we lose our short term memory because we treat our brains like soccer ball and don’t understand this blasting. It’s killing you so that I’m burn off that adrenaline. That’s what I’m pathic listening does and slow them down. You probably tell I’m a pretty fast talker. I just am hyper, but when I’m coaching somebody, I’ll say, no, let me just, I’ll slow it down and say, okay, just tell me what’s happening cause I want that five seconds to kick in for the frontal lobes and, and when they’re done. Also, here’s a novel concept. You might learn something.

 

Scott Warrick:: (32:16)

I’ll tell you, I learned a long time ago when I was a young attorney. Um, you know peop people a lie. Clients lie. If you go charging in with guns blazing, you can look like an idiot real quick. So I listen, I might learn something and I’ll tell you I’ve been mediating for 30 years. The next step is the P. okay? Paradigm. Now think what I’m saying. Active listening is really good. Empathic listening is, it goes one step further and think we sort of, I always like to play with the gen Z years and gen wires a little bit. Anybody under the age of 30 or early thirties because here’s something to think about. If I’m, I’m 58 years old, okay? If I’m going to sit there and talk to someone who was a young female, 22 years old, inner city, let’s say, never been to college.

 

Scott Warrick:: (33:12)

You think we have a different perspective on? Of course we do. Right? I was born in 1960. Okay. I saw president get shot on national television. Okay. Um, very different perspective from somebody who was born 1980, uh, 1990. So you see what I’m doing here? I got to listen. Not from your perspective, my perspective, but I got to listen from her perspective. Okay? So, and I got to repeat it back. So when she’s done E P I would say, okay, let me make sure I got this. I’ll make sure I’m tracking it. You’re telling me that this is a problem because of this and this and this. Now I understand. Okay. So if she says no. Okay, tell me again cause there’s something I missed. I got to repeat this to your satisfaction. Okay. Now, I’ll tell you the mediating for 30 years. And let me tell you, here’s one of my tricks I ever go in to mediate between labor and management or between one person and other person. First thing I’m going to do is I’m going to say, okay, I want someone on this side over here to tell me where this side’s coming from to their satisfaction. No one’s ever been able to do it, not Watson 30 years. Cause if they could, I wouldn’t be there.

 

Jim Rembach: : (34:33)

And I think another thing when you said going back to the whole neurology of the acute is, especially when you start talking about some of the younger generations, that whole prefrontal executive decision making part of the brain hasn’t been developed. I mean, if they’re in their, you know, teens, late teens, early twenties and needless to say, we preteen and they don’t understand consequences and they don’t understand, you know, if they do something, what could be the effect of that and the magnitude and impact and, and so it’s not that you’re being demeaning in any way when you’re engaging or trying to use your EPR skills. It’s just that you’re talking about their perspective. You know, there’s some brain issues as far as development goes that are there that maybe not be there.

 

Scott Warrick:: (35:13)

Yeah. Right. Now, think about this. I’ve never met somebody over the age of 40. They didn’t want to go back and talk to a 20, 25 year old them. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And I’ll tell you, insurance companies know this. Have you ever tried to insure a teenage driver?

 

Jim Rembach: : (35:31)

Yeah. Well we don’t need to talk about that. We’ve had, we’ve doubled insurance bill for my 16 year old, so let’s not go there. We’ll skip that conversation.

 

Scott Warrick:: (35:39)

My 21 year old, a be 22 in March, we pay as much to ensure him straight a student. I estate, uh, never been in an accident, never gotten it. We pay more for him than we do. My wife, my oldest son and me. Okay. So now having said that, you’re actually right, uh, a young woman we know today and we all know there’s always like, well that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s awfully, you know, scary. Typical girls develop earlier than boys. They do 25 year old for girl develop their frontal lobes. 28 for most guys. I’m sorry, we guys are waiting. Now think about this. You graduate medical school before you got your frontal lobes. That is scary stuff. Okay. So yeah, because, but then again, I’ll tell you one thing. Older people like me don’t like to hear technology is always gonna win. Look what we’re doing right now.

 

Scott Warrick:: (36:36)

The cell phones technology will help. So these kids and to me, anybody under the age of 30 is a kid cause they’re just like trying not to frontal lobes for the first time. Okay. Maybe I see something they don’t see. But I’ll tell you from a, from a uh, community communication and from a digital standpoint, maybe there’s something I don’t understand. So absolutely. Now that’s the diversity in collar or tolerance type of topic. So E, P. E. P. E. P. I will have clients on the phone to explain pretty complicated situations. I mean, I got unlimited notes on my phone. Unlimited. Okay. So I can easily spend three hours on the phone with a client and I’ll tell you, I will eat, pee you to death. Cause I’ll say, okay, let me make sure I got this cause I gotta make sure I’m tracking. Now think of the mistake we usually make.

 

Scott Warrick:: (37:28)

I have control of myself. So I’ve made it to first base. Hardest thing you’ll ever do. I’m not attacking, not retreating, I’m honest. So I’m addressing the issue going into second base. Here’s a mistake we typically make. You know, it’s like, Jim, I want to help you. I want to help you. So okay, you’re late to work. Let me explain to you what the problems are. Or you have this conflict, here’s what you’re doing wrong. I’m thinking, Hey, as long as I’m, I’m just trying to help you. As long as I’m just explaining to you what you need to do, everything will be fine. Okay? Look at the disrespect. Okay. I didn’t ask you your side. I didn’t ask your opinion. Our best of intentions are going to blow up on us. So EPA and then we go to the R. yeah, we’re gone. Okay, good.

 

Scott Warrick:: (38:18)

We’ll wrap it up. Big boy. Okay. Cause this really people, and I’ll tell you this is not common in today’s society. I’m going to say something else. Absolutely shatter. Other people were allowed to have their opinions. It doesn’t make you stupid because somebody else disagrees on gun control or something. So if I disagree with you, you’re dealing with a human and I will tell you when you study the neurology, never forget that human can turn on you and 17 thousands of a second and it’s their self esteem. So if I agree with you, you’re happy. If I disagree with you, I say I give you a reward or reward as a validation that you have a right to your opinion. So I would say, you know, I see what you’re saying or you know, I’ve heard that before and I see where you’re coming from but I disagree.

 

Scott Warrick:: (39:12)

Or what about this? And, and I love this because I have relatives who have very different political opinions from mine and I use these EPR skills on them all the time. And it’s funny because my wife says, you know, I can always tell when you’re going to do that EPR thing. I said, why? She goes, she goes, cause you always sit back, cross your arms and cock your head. And I’m like yeah cause I’m trying to be relaxed. Okay, if I’m relaxed, there’ll be relaxed. What we talk about politics and religion all the time. And think about this, I always throw this out, I think I mentioned it in the book, you know, talk about politics and religion at work. And people go, Oh my God, Oh my God, wait a minute. Politics and religion, you have an opinion, you got a right to your opinion, but it isn’t going to affect your life this second. Highly emotional, but the this very second, it won’t do that. You’re gonna talk to someone about their job. Oh that’s 10 times more dangerous. And that helps to explain the 38,000 physical assaults. The OSHA says we get an American workplaces every week. If you are critical.

 

Jim Rembach: : (40:19)

And you know, there’s another thing that you, that we talk about in the book that I think is critically important and that is that we should never use the word soft skills and because is that, you know, we use that because we just don’t know how to measure these things because they have significant impact. They are measurable and we can make a difference. And, and maybe we’ll go on that on another show because you and I are having so much fun. We need to keep rolling. But um, one of the things that I think is critically important for us to, you know, be attentive to in all of this is that it takes practice. Yes. Know, like getting better baseball it takes,

 

Scott Warrick:: (40:54)

yeah, that’s that muscle memory or what I would talk about, which really you’re rewiring your brain. Um, I was telling my, my clients, it’s like, okay, you’re going to have a difficult conversation with somebody. Talk to yourself in the car. Your brain moves at 268 miles an hour. You can talk at 50. Okay. Or role play with somebody. Okay. But you hit it right on the head. We got to practice it to get it into our, into our automatic reaction and, and I’ll tell you there’s no, like you mentioned, there’s no such thing as a personality conflict. Never, never. That tells me you can’t diagnose it. It is always first, which means I got an attacker or a retreat or so you can pinpoint it and fix it. Or I got somebody who’s not using their EPR skills. It’s always going to be something like that. But you hit it right on the head. Absolutely. These are no set. When somebody says soft skills, what that tells me is there’s not going to be definable skills for people to use. And honestly, training should never be like that. It should always be defined. This is what you do and it’s gotta be simple that you implement this into your culture. Everybody does it.

 

Jim Rembach: : (42:07)

Now, one of the things that we also do in this show is we learned from others by them sharing their stories. And you even said the word pump pump a little while back. And that’s what we talk about is getting over the hump. Uh, you know, it helps us, you know, to learn and, and hopefully go in a better direction. There’s a ton that you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share.

 

Scott Warrick:: (42:24)

Oh, mine. Um, you know, honestly, I, I put this in the book and I teach this stuff because I, I, I, I have to use it. I tell you that. Absolutely. I mean, every day is another home every day. Um, uh, I’ll tell ya, I’ve had more situations come up where these skills have saved me or, well, and again, you cannot have a relationship with someone who does not communicate with you. Okay. So, Oh yeah. I’ve got a horrendous situation I’m going through. I did. I, uh, I, uh, um, it’s a free clinic association here in Ohio and I’ve done stuff with them for seven years, great relationship, wonderful people. And then all of a sudden they just stopped communicating with me and they stopped choosing me for their sessions. And so I’m sure back in and said, Hey, um, I know I was turned down for your last session.

 

Scott Warrick:: (43:20)

I usually, you have me there. Um, you know, are there other topics you’re looking for? You know, are there other topics you’re looking for? And I never heard that nine months. This goes on and then I find out typical we’re talking about, apparently I said something and nobody can remember what it was. I said that offended two people out of about 60. And, and I’m like, okay, well you understand. That’s the very definition of hypersensitivity. Uh, I look, I understand if you don’t want to use me anymore, I mean that’s your choice. But I would like to know what it was. I said that was so offensive. Didn’t hear anything. Wrote back to the president, didn’t hear anything, wrote back to him again, didn’t hear anything. And so I said, look, I’m not hearing anything to you. I’m going to let my clients know the people who have to get on my distribution list.

 

Scott Warrick:: (44:13)

You would’ve had to have given me your card. That’s the only way. I don’t go out and buy lists or anything. You would have had to have given me your card or requested to be on it. So I said, look, I’m going to send out a note to all the folks that if they want to hear me, cause I got a lot of folks that come to my sessions, my sessions are full at your sessions, at your conferences, but I’m gonna let them know I’m not going to be there anymore. And I’m really upset about it. I, I wanted to work this out so I sent this out and it is just absolutely amazing to me. Uh, I let my clients know, but you see here we go. I have lost a lot of sleep. I have been meditating more because it really bothers me that this is a situation that I couldn’t rectify cause I’m one hand clapping.

 

Scott Warrick:: (45:00)

So I got actually on my website. You just, how strongly I feel about it. I’ve got a meditation recording there. I found this great British guy who’s Indian with this wonderful accent. I’m telling you, I’ve been meeting, I got a meditation mat in my office and a lot of that is over the distress over this stuff. So it’s a real hump for me cause it’s like, um, I better take care of my brain because this is going to really, it really did bother me but there was no saving it if your aunt Lee but Oh yeah, I’m really into the brain care and the EEQ and I think that if I hadn’t been as cognizant and stop and think I’d have said something really stupid cause I’m not just upset, I’m really mad. But Hey, that’s life. Right? That’s what happens.

 

Jim Rembach: : (45:45)

Well, uh, I can I, you know, you and I have also talked about the fact that you’re, again, another things we share is work. We study this stuff because we have our own issues to try to get through it and we’re trying to deepen our sense of understanding and awareness. And it’s a constant journey. It’s a journey. Okay. Now, okay, best literal age and we’re talking to Scott work and we’ll be back in a moment with the hump day. Hoedown now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Speaker 3: (46:13)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with their colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com four slash better. All right, here we go. Fast in your Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh, okay. Scott, the hump they held on as a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Scott work. Are you ready to hoedown? Yes. That sounds like fun. Yeah. Right. So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? By frankly, it’s a

 

Scott Warrick:: (47:03)

constant struggle to remain sane. Um, I honestly, I live this stuff. Uh, I drink half of my weight and water and ounces every day. Whole regimen of vitamins, uh, meditation, all of it. And as I get older, it is harder and harder. The brain recovers faster when you’re 30 than when you’re 60. But I am training right now for 80. And um, it’s, it’s a constant type of thing. I got to physically make myself get up from my desk and go and take care of my brain and it’s, it’s, it’s more important than your feet.

 

Jim Rembach: : (47:34)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Scott Warrick:: (47:37)

I had a client years ago from the South down Alabama and all this stuff was coming out with email and email was the cutting edge back then. And he said, do you know, he said, I know this is all real good and everything, but you know, there is never going to be a replacement for talking to people. He’s right. And texts are everything. That’s great and everything. But I will tell you we’re still human. Yep. Got it.

 

Jim Rembach: : (48:05)

And what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Scott Warrick:: (48:10)

I think the best thing that I’ve been able to work on, and let me just preface this, I’m a PTSD survivor. I had my brain scan back in the two thousands in 2008 actually, and it was a mass and I worked really hard to, to improve it, rebuild it. And I went back for a followup scan in 2011 and it’s about 90% clear now. So I really value that. The best thing I’m most proud of is I’m able to relax when I need to relax. And I’m able to know when to lead to, to leave, uh, because I’ve got a healthy brain now. And that’s honestly, that’s probably one of the best things I got.

 

Jim Rembach: : (48:51)

And what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It can be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to solve employee problems before they start on your show notes page as well.

 

Scott Warrick:: (49:00)

Honestly, anything by Daniel Goleman, Daniel Goleman wrote it. I read it. Yeah.

 

Jim Rembach: : (49:08)

Okay. Best literal Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/scott work. Okay, Scott, this is my last hump day. Hold on question. Imagine you had the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you could take all the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Scott Warrick:: (49:31)

Oh, EEQ everything. DQ, it’s first base and that’s brain health. You can’t separate the two. But I would go back to a 25 year old me and say, look, you, you, you, you really aren’t that tough. But soldiers are tough. Maybe seals are tough, but they damage their brain. So tell you what, you need to take more time away from the desk. You need to cut clients loose. You need to take care of your brain. It’s not your body. It’s your brain. Actually. Your body is just a, uh, portable device or a portable instrument for your brain. Takes your body or your brain around, take care of your brain. You’re going to be so much happier because in another 20 years you’re going to be crazy and you don’t want to do that. So that’s the one piece of understand and learn. ECU and brain health.

 

Jim Rembach: : (50:23)

Scott, I’ve had fun with you. How do people get in touch with you?

 

Scott Warrick:: (50:26)

I have, my website’s got word.com that’s all they need to know.

 

Jim Rembach: : (50:29)

Scott, work. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and the fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 249: Scott Warrick: Resolving employee conflict is simple appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Scott Warrick Show Notes Page Scott Warrick had a client that all of a sudden stopped communicating with him. After several attempts to connect without response, Scott learned he said something that offended someone during a workshop. Scott Warrick had a client that all of a sudden stopped communicating with him. After several attempts to connect without response, Scott learned he said something that offended someone during a workshop. After losing a lot of sleep, he resolved himself to the fact that he needed to take care of himself to move forward.
Scott Warrick was born and raised in Newark, Ohio. His father was a machine operator at Kaiser Aluminum and his mother was a secretary. He was the perfectly placed middle child, with a sister three years older than him, Pam, and Kelly, a brother three years younger than him.  Kelly passed away suddenly in January of 2018 at the age of 53. Kelly was one of Scott’s closest and dearest friends.
Scott paid for his own undergraduate degree by working at Owens Corning Fiberglas making ceiling tile and packaging glass wool. That was also the first union Scott joined. He was part of the GBBA, or Glass Bottle Blowers Association. Scott went onto work several jobs while carrying a full load of classes at The Ohio State University. In 1983, Scott earned his undergraduate degree in Organizational Communication. This is the degree Scott uses more today than all the others. Resolving Conflict is always the key.
Scott then started his career in human resources by holding a dual role at the Kirby Vacuum Cleaner Company. He was their Director of Human Resources by day and a vacuum cleaner salesman by night and weekends.
To earn money for his graduate degree, he worked in another factory, Kaiser Aluminum. That was the second union Scott joined, the Steelworkers. Scott then graduated from The Ohio State University in 1986 with his Master of Labor & Human Resources degree.
Scott then worked in human resources in various organizations throughout the later 1980s. At that time, the law was swallowing HR. So, while he was working as the Director of Human Resources at First Investment Company in Columbus Ohio, he was accepted at Capital University College of Law in 1992. Scott graduated from Capital in 1996 as Class Valedictorian (1st out of 233).
Scott then practiced traditional law from 1996 to 1998, but absolutely hated it. Scott always believed every lawsuit could be avoided if the parties just grew up, which is Emotional Intelligence, and addressed and resolved their conflicts.
Scott started his own private dual practices in 2001: Scott Warrick’s Human Resource Consulting, Coaching & Training Services (www.scottwarrick.com) and Scott Warrick’s Employment Law Services (www.scottwarrickemploymentlaw.com).
Today, Scott focuses most of his attention on working with clients to build their levels of Emotional Intelligence, which is vital to leadership skills, and to help them better resolve their conflicts, which means using the system he developed called EPR, which stands for Empathic Listening, Parroting, and “Rewards.”
Scott’s book, “Solve Employee Problems Before They Start:  Resolving Conflict in the Real World”  was written to help people do just that and make their lives better.
Today, Scott’s lives in Reynoldsburg, Ohio. He was been married to his wife Lisa for the last 32 years. They have two sons, Michael, who is in graduate school studying for his Master’s degree in Psychology at Roosevelt University in Chicago, and Nicholas, who is studying to become a Physical Therapist at The Ohio State University.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @ScottWarrick to get over the hump on the @Fa...]]>
Fast Leader Show Podcast 51:41
248: Joe Dunlap: It’s time to stop training https://www.fastleader.net/joedunlap/ Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:14:17 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15162 https://www.fastleader.net/joedunlap/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/joedunlap/feed/ 0 <p>Joe Dunlap Show Notes Page Joe Dunlap is the son of a US Air Force officer and spent most of his youth moving every two years from one Air Force base to another along with his younger sister.  He is a second-generation Bachelor and Master degree graduate. Joe entered into Learning and Development by accident.  [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/joedunlap/">248: Joe Dunlap: It’s time to stop training</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Joe Dunlap Show Notes Page

Joe Dunlap is the son of a US Air Force officer and spent most of his youth moving every two years from one Air Force base to another along with his younger sister.  He is a second-generation Bachelor and Master degree graduate.

Joe entered into Learning and Development by accident.  After completing his undergraduate degree in the Northeast, he applied for numerous jobs in Texas with little luck until a university offered him a position as a Hall Director, as long as he was also a graduate student.  Since it was late April at this time, the only department at the university that had rolling applications for grad school was the Department of Education.

Joe started a joint program in Adult Learning and Org Development with no intentions of finishing it.  Two years later I had an M Ed, he was working in HR at another university in Org Dev and some Adult Learning and here he is a long, long time later still working in L&D.

Joe started his career as a stand-up facilitator using PowerPoint and Word.  As technology evolved into eLearning, Podcasting, Video, and LMSs, he was an early adopter which allowed him to expand his competencies and services.  As the use of eLearning and LMSs grew, he became a SME for L&D technology which led him to being a leader of an L&D technology team.

Over the last few years he has researched, implemented, practiced and managed the evolving mindsets, practices, technology, and methods being used by organizations in the Digital Transformation era and implemented those within L&D as both a leader and consultant.  He is also a writer of L&D Transformation on LinkedIn.

Joe currently lives in Germantown, WI with his wife and the last of his three daughters, three cats and a dog; he’s the only male in the house, aaaaagh.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to Joe Dunlap get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“With the growing skills gaps, how do we now deliver learning faster?” – Click to Tweet

“Move away from that training mindset and move into other possibilities.” – Click to Tweet

“Let’s talk about the problem because learning and development is only one piece of solving that particular problem.” – Click to Tweet

“Once training is done, what’s next because that’s not the end of the story?” – Click to Tweet

“How are you helping employees in their flow of work?” – Click to Tweet

“Thinking about the learning journey, there’s so many ways that people now go about acquiring learning.” – Click to Tweet

“If you just read a news article, there’s not a week that goes by where a CEO doesn’t talk about the need to become a learning organization.” – Click to Tweet

“The scale of an organization is losing its relevance to the speed of the organization’s learning capacity.” – Click to Tweet

“We can no longer focus on shareholder value, we have to focus on our employees improving their value.” – Click to Tweet

“You can’t continue to go out and buy skill sets, you need to start growing them.” – Click to Tweet

“You have to meet learners where they’re at. You can’t drag them to your Learning Management System.” – Click to Tweet

“If you are learning you are growing. If you aren’t growing what are you doing?” – Click to Tweet

“We moved away from that training mindset and started looking at that learning ecosystem for that individual and team and the learning journey.” – Click to Tweet

“Step back and embrace other thoughts and ideas and you’ll become a much better leader.” – Click to Tweet

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Hump to Get Over

Joe Dunlap had an old-school training mindset and found himself in an organization that was losing to its competition. That’s when Joe challenged himself and his team to “stop training” and to start gathering insight into ways they could add value to employees and meet them where they are in their learning and development journey.

Advice for others

Be open to change.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Fighting an organizational culture.

Best Leadership Advice

Be humble in your practice and have humor in yourself.

Secret to Success

I listen to smart people.

Best tools in business or life

Taking a personal approach.

Recommended Watching

Steve Jobs vs Bill Gates (American Genius)

Contacting Joe Dunlap

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephmdunlap/

Email: joseph.m.dunlap [at] gmail.com

Resources and Show Mentions

Dash Trainer: Agent Training in a Dash

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

248: Joe Dunlap: It’s time to stop training

Jim Rembach: : (00:00)

Okay, Fast leader legion today I’m excited because we have somebody on the show today who is going to tell you why you need to stop training.

 

Jim Rembach: : (00:47)

Joe Dunlap is the son of a U S air force officer and spent most of his youth moving every two years from one air force base to another along with his younger sister. He is a second generation bachelor and master’s degree. Gradually Joe entered into learning and development by accident after completing his undergraduate degree in the Northeast. He applied for numerous jobs in Texas with little luck until the university offered him a position as a whole director as long as he was a graduate student. Since it was late April. At this time, the only department at the university that had rolling applications for grad school was the department of education. Joe started a joint program in adult learning and organizational development with no intention of finishing it. Two years later he had a master’s in education and he was working in HR at another university in organizational development and some adult learning and there he is a long, long time later still and working in learning and development.

 

Jim Rembach: : (01:47)

Joe started his career as a standup facilitator using PowerPoint and word. As technology evolved into e-learning podcasting, video and learning management systems, he was an early adopter which allowed him to expand his competencies and services. As the use of e-learning and LMS has grew, he became a subject matter expert for learning and development technology, which led him to being a leader of a learning and development technology team. Over the last few years. He has researched, implemented practice and manage the evolving mindsets, practices, technology and methods being used by organizations in the digital transformation era and implemented those within learning and development as both a leader and consultant. He’s also a writer of L and D transformation on LinkedIn. Joe currently lives in Germantown, Wisconsin with his wife and the last of his three daughters, three cats and a dog. He’s the only male in the house. Joe Dunlap. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? I am ready to help you get over the hump man. I’m glad you’re here now giving my Legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we get to know you even better? So you actually said at gym it stopped training a lot. What I write about,

 

Joe Dunlap:: (03:00)

a lot of what I consult about right now is changing that mindset and practice that a lot of learning and development leaders have had for a long time. I am certainly one of those individuals. And where we always thought about the course, we always thought about an E learning course or a workshop or instruct something instructor led. And in today’s environment, especially with the digital transformation, we just don’t have that time anymore. We have to go over it much quicker for our clients and we have to be able to pivot on a moment’s notice, you know? And so with the growing cost skills gaps that we’ve seen, we’re hearing about this all the time. It’s how do we now deliver faster? And so what I’m trying to encourage or influence people to do is move away from that training mindset into other possibilities.

 

Jim Rembach: : (03:40)

Well, and I think what you talk about there is, to me, this isn’t really focused in on one particular industry. In addition, I think there’s a lot of things that are advancing right now in the whole artificial intelligence and business automation space, but also impacting what we’re talking about from a learning and development perspective. So when you can’t, if you can kind of give us a little bit about, uh, I’ll look into the impact of what AI can be on stopping training.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (04:08)

Oh, I mean, when you think about all of this, and especially AI is that, um, if I’m thinking about it from an employee’s perspective or an organizational perspective, is now how are we growing those skill sets? You know, five years ago, if you and I were having this conversation and someone said, get a scientist, we both were to look at each other with a question Mark in the day. That same road is making $170,000 a year for a guy to sign. Okay. So the utilization of AI, machine learning, you’re now starting to see, um, positions or occupations that didn’t exist in anybody’s tongue three years ago, four years ago. There’s not even degrees for somebody, but there are people who’ve grown up with these skill sets and have learned how to analyze data and work with machine learning who are now making a lot of money. But that’s now challenging. You know, all the employees within an organization of how are they only on moving as part of this digital transformation to grow those skillsets to be, um, help the organization remain competitive within their industry?

 

Jim Rembach: : (05:07)

Well, even when you talk about that and I don’t, this whole new job thing is quite interesting and well eaten for me. What I see AI working in the contact center space and customer experience space is that AI is being used as, you know, a job aid is being used as a, you know, process flow, you know, you know, follow the leader tool. Uh, is also when you put that into the whole learning and development mix really causing, you know, more and more or reinforcing more of that stop training, you know, type of focus. And there’s one of the things that you and I had had an opportunity to talk about is you talked about that, that mindset and that first approach and the first approach used to be build a course. Now you’re saying the approach needs to be different. What does it need to be

 

Joe Dunlap:: (05:56)

well know? And I’m

 

Jim Rembach: : (05:57)

guilty of this is that, you know, the, the first thing I typically did throughout my career is, okay, let’s go with the solution mindset. And typically that was of course it may have been new learning and may have been instructor led. Now it’s part of this digital transformation on learning new ways like design thinking and agile, which is, let’s talk about the problem because very often the problem has multiple facets to it and learning development is only one piece of solving that particular problem. And so it’s bringing the right people together at the table to brainstorm around multiple ways to do that. And more importantly, Jim, like you talked about, is that, um, you know, once that training is done, let’s go back to that idea of, okay, I did a course or I did a workshop or whatever it was, is now what’s next?

 

Jim Rembach: : (06:39)

Because that’s not the end of the story, you know, is that once they’ve gained that competency, that skill that knows whatever it is now, how are you helping them? Like you were just talking about in their flow of work, when they’re actually applying that knowledge, what challenges, uh, what successes are they having? What resources do they need on the job to help them continue to grow? Well, I think for me there’s also, you and I talked about the difference between things that are more technical than short term. Yes. In regards to job skills are concerned and then other elements which are more longterm and journey and development things. Yes. So I would dare to say one of the things that I’ve looked at a lot and have been trying to bring into the contact center world is what is referred to as blended learning. But a lot of really familiar with what blended learning is. If you could kind of help us,

 

Joe Dunlap:: (07:32)

you know, I think blended learning has multiple connotations. So you know, when you think about blended learning is what are those resources now that help that individual to continue learning and growing? So an example with a previous client, we were utilizing an internal Yammer channel. So social media, we are creating a role-based and or skill-based groups in which these people could come together and share their knowledge and expertise and resources. We’re pointing them right? Uh, we are utilizing SharePoint as a way of content management because this is where the worked and these were the tools that they worked with, uh, you know, creating short videos to very often my team and I, we would actually literally take our phones or iPhones or Samsung or whatever they used and go and show videos of people working out particular problems and sharing how they solve those problems. And then just literally posting that as a very rough video for other people to use as resources. So you start to think about that learning journey. There are so many different ways in which learning people now actually go past the means of acquiring learning, but finding out what your vendors are using and then incorporating that into your overall deliverables.

 

Jim Rembach: : (08:34)

You and I talked about, uh, the transformation of the learning and development leader. And as you were talking right there, I started really thinking about, you know, the, the nuance, the art and the science of all of this. And, and that is, for example, like SharePoint, well it’s a good tool for certain organizations, but then for other organizations it is, so you have to use a different tool so that all kinds of different solutions that really have to be explored and understood. But it does start with that mindset and be first and first of all, but I see one of the transformation points for a learning and development leader and then they think about it from even from a member perspective, as someone who’s responsible for overall performance, I may not be a traditionally trained L and D leader, but yet I’m responsible, you know, as supervisor or manager for people’s performance and getting the work done is that, you know, I need to start thinking about overall knowledge assets and manage assets. Yes,

 

Joe Dunlap:: (09:31)

absolutely. And now it’s, where do I find those assets? How am I voting on? And they’re looking for those people. And so it’s this idea of learning and development growing itself. And some of the things that I write about is go create your own work. You know, so if you’re listening, if you’re in the lunch room, the water cooler, so to speak, you’re hearing these stories, these pain points that exist across the organization. Go after them, start digging into those stories to find out how painful is this experience, this knowledge is skill, whatever it is, start finding those and start meeting those learners where they’re at like you’re talking about. Because you’ll find is I’ve found that all of a sudden you’re creating your own backlog. Before that people were saying, Hey, you built this. Can you help me build this? Or how can you, can we start to curate these resources together and where can we put those resources that help people at that moment?

 

Jim Rembach: : (10:18)

Well, and I think Joe, I mean you, you could probably give better insight into this than I can is that you are talking about how overall, you know, learning and development and the need for it and really the demand for it has quite changed. And with that organizational importance. So when we start talking about strategic value, it used to be, Oh my gosh, don’t train them cause no lead. Um, and I think that’s changing too. How have you seen the strategic importance of learning and development change just within the past couple of years?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (10:48)

Oh, you know, if you just read a news article, Jim, there’s not a week that goes by where I do not see a CEO or several CEOs who talk about the importance of becoming a learning organization. You know, and I share some of these quotes when I see them on my LinkedIn profile. Um, there was one recently I shared last week and I’m paraphrasing here by the CEO of work who said that, you know, he talked about the scale of an organization is losing its relevance to the speed of the organization’s learning capacity. And I think he hits the nail on the head is native. We cannot continue to grow our employees and grow their skill sets and our competencies. We’re going to lose to our competition if they’re moving faster than we, and many organizations are now recognizing this. In fact, there was, I think it was a week or two ago that a bunch of CEOs came out and said, we no longer can focus on shareholder value.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (11:37)

We have to focus on our employees and proving their value. And I think that that message has now made its way across a lot of industries and a lot of CEOs are recognizing. So the quote, like you said, you know, the CFO said to the CEO, what if we train them and they leave and the CEO says, what if we don’t? And they stay. Right. So like you just said, you can’t continue to go out and buy the skillsets. You want to have to start growing them. You’re going to start rescaling people. Cause there’s just not enough people who aren’t around. And that need is growing so quickly that you have to respond to it. So I think you hit the nail on that. Okay. So when we start talking about, you know, going through a transformation process, you know, you talk about the mindset, you know, I, if I start looking at an organization that is, you know, doing some of the things that they’ve just always done because their great habit, we build all these processes around them.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (12:28)

You know what, we can do it fast, but you know, the effectiveness has gone away. What are two things that you often have to cause them or you have to really encourage them to step away from? Yes, so one of the first things that I do, especially when I’m starting an initiative is I’m making sure that I’m getting buy in by all the leaders impacted. And I did this very recently with a client was we were going to roll out this leadership initiative. And so I met with all the leaders across the organization and I had several leaders maybe probably close to about a fourth of them who said, Joe right now is not the time we have these other priorities going on. And I really appreciated him saying that because it allowed me to focus on those people who were ready to embrace that at that moment and be my advocates as well.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (13:11)

And they made a world of difference because they were full head, they were fooling and supportive and they were able to push forward. And that way when some of those other leaders were finally ready to haven’t gotten those other priorities off of their fight, so to speak, they were now ready to embrace it too because I was meeting them at their right moment. Well, you know, as you were saying that I also started thinking of the fact that, you know, once they decided to essentially take themselves out and they saw other people embracing it, moving ahead, it was a threat. Yes, exactly. And it’s funny, I did a, a couple of years ago, I was with a large company and you know, like you said, it was 150 years old. They had a lot of processes in place. Uh, certainly the organization, organizational culture was very much face to face and things like that.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (13:55)

And he realized that they were just not keeping up with their competition. So they were going through this organizational change. You know, and culture always trumps everything. So you know, the CEO recognized we have to start shrinking our culture and there’s early adopters and late adopters. And so by helping in, in leading that particular change, I went for the early adopters first because they became my advocates for the people who are still kind of sitting back saying, wow, this is the flavor of the day. We’ll just wait two years and he’ll be gone. By the time they finally realized that this was not going away, there was a whole lot of stories out there and resources for them to become fully engaged with it as well as having good mentors. So to me, I think it goes back to that whole short term versus long term focus and that if I’m someone who needs to go through this transformation and I, well let me take a step back and I would say that everybody needs to go through this transformation even with call center coach Academy, see so many organizations

 

Jim Rembach: : (14:53)

that you know, really don’t understand what the whole difference between, you know, task, um, short term technical skill and long term, you know, leadership development, you know, really is, it’s absolutely, unfortunately, like you said, we all kind of opt for the classroom. We opt for the workshop, we, you know, we think that, you know, Hey, just give them the information and then therefore the action’s going to happen. And it’s just not the way it works.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (15:21)

You’re right, you’re absolutely right. In fact, actually I was leading initiative with the context in a very recently and we became aware of some pain points that certainly were not trained and there were no resources in which to help those costs in a representative with that. And so we built out a number of materials, basically job AIDS to help men with that. But it was very hard for leadership to start now embracing this idea of these huddle type of trainings versus a classroom based to bring people up with speed on these things. And I struggled with it a little bit to be honest with you because in my mind as I’m looking at this information, I knew that the customer service reps were not well versed in these topics because they were pain points. The quality was showing that, but they were focused, like you said, on the metrics and meeting service level agreements and not recognizing that, okay, you know, the, the forest for the trees so to speak, is that okay, but these pain points don’t go away if you don’t address them so great and you meet your service levels, great, you need your quality, but you’re still not helping the customer because your customer service reps don’t understand the information that’s in front of them.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (16:22)

And I’m still pounding away at that gym. I really am. There’s some people who have now started to come around and say, okay, let’s try some things. There’s sound. We’re still kind of pushing back on me on that. It’s a culture shift.

 

Jim Rembach: : (16:32)

Well, and I think what you said, kind of going back a little bit full circle, you started talking about truly uncovering, you know, the the problem and being really where the mindset set shift needs to happen. Yup. Oh, when you start talking about, you know, that different lens and, and the, and you causing people to look in places that they, you know, are just not accustomed to doing. Yes. What do you often find that is preventing you from making people to make that head turn?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (17:01)

Very often it’s the organizational culture is that, you know, they built up a, for lack of a better word, the command and control structure. And so when those subject matter experts who very often become those call center leaders, get into those roles, you know, they come with great technical knowledge, but like you just said, there’s, it’s very hard for them to look outside of just my channel right in front of me. Do you understand that there’s a whole lot of stuff that’s going on around here that is impacting what you’re doing, you know, and that can help you to benefit that. And so it’s just overcoming that organizational culture is that there’s a lot of players who can bring in hands, productivity and effectiveness if you’re willing to now embrace some of that mindset versus the straight ahead parallel linear thinking.

 

Jim Rembach: : (17:43)

Well, and you know, S and KPI’s are important for every single part of a business. Those key performance indicators. So could kind of give me an understanding of that, that when that shift has occurred, get on board, they start doing things differently. What are we talking about as far as a KPI impact?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (18:02)

You know, I’ve been incorporating some different measures lately and so one of the things that a lot of organizations are looking at is employee engagement. You know, so as we talk about the world digital transformation and social media, I’ve been incorporating some measures that might be typically used on a Twitter or Facebook or something like that. So if we push out some videos or some learning resources, not only my sharing their usage, but I’m sharing how many shares, how many likes, how many did they share that with? And so I’m trying to incorporate more measures based on the deliverable and the channels that I use that now help build a much bigger story for my client to see that there’s a much bigger picture out here than just simply for instance, ROI or some of the key measures that they’re looking at. Because you know, it’s very easy for us to get logged into like, did we meet our potty metrics or did we meet our service level of bringing through things like that. But there’s sort of, like you just said, there’s a whole lot of other story out there that once they start to become aware of it, you start to see that light bulb come on in their head is, Oh wait a minute. There’s some other things out here that really make a difference, especially when you’re talking about a call center environment to keep people here versus the kind of retention problems that most experience.

 

Jim Rembach: : (19:10)

Well, gosh, Joe, as you were talking and I started seeing the role and the skills zone, the L and D people and again, even if they’re traditionally trained or are, if they’re in a manager role, that that needs to shift and let me to to quite a significant degree for some cause I mean as you were just describing what you were doing, I mean I started thinking about internal communications. Yeah. I started thinking about internal marketing. Yes. That’s, that’s different than just communications. Yeah. Um, you started talking about, um, you know, the whole, um, you know, the cultural aspects and the cultural transformation piece, performance management. I mean, I’m starting to see a whole different level of skills that are needed inL and D people that just didn’t exist.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (19:52)

Yeah. And I think that’s part of what’s going on with the digital transformation. My personal experience with this has been, uh, in a, in an organization that was working agile is that in some cases I was leading an effort, so I might’ve been referred to as a product owner. In other cases, I’m rolling up my sleeves and I’m an individual contributor. And so I was taking on those roles as we started to see how learning was being consumed and the ways in which it was being consumed by learners, you have to meet them where they’re at. You know? So the idea of me dragging you as that learner to the learning management system is not working anymore. It’s, I now need to come to where Jim does his work and deliver to Jim in a way that he wants to deliver it. So I might need to learn how to use Twitter or Instagram or learn how to, uh, make an edit videos or learn how to be a web developer and SharePoint. And so whatever it is that your, your learners are using, you’re building those skill sets and that helps you in your future gym. Because again, you may be in instances where maybe you’re not leading that effort and maybe even learning as a part of that, but you have a role or multiple roles, you might be able to plan that becomes, that makes you much more valuable.

 

Jim Rembach: : (20:59)

Well, Joe, I would dare to say with, uh, the transformation that you’re talking about and I see it with all types of transformations that, you know, we really need to focus, we need some inspiration and, and we need some things that are, you know, continual reminders of, you know, the effort that we need to put forth in the resilience. And one of the things that we look at on the show to help us with that, those types of things are quotes. So is there a quote or two that you like you can share?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (21:24)

I do. There’s actually two quotes. So for any individual and learning development, it goes like this. If you are learning, you are growing. If you ain’t growing, what are you doing? Right. And so that’s actually a quote on my LinkedIn page. Um, and um, I lovely woman who was the vice president down at an organization, Nebraska, found that one time and massively distributed that across a whole network of people. And then I started getting all these people liking and sharing and his domestic, you mean whatever your LinkedIn messaging. I was like, wow, that’s fantastic that they really meant that much to her. Something that resonated with her and it resonated with her network, you know, as a learning and development leader is that one of the most valuable things I learned from a previous leader was you got to have humility and humor about yourself.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (22:12)

You know, because you can’t know everything. You are not the expert in everything. And so I very much follow the Steve jobs mindset is I don’t hire smart people to tell them what to do. I hire smart people to tell me what to do. So as I’m growing my team, I’ve grown two teams in my history. Um, I’m bringing them on board because they bring skill sets to the table that I don’t have. I don’t need somebody else telling me or doing what I already do. I need somebody doing what I can’t do and showing me how to do. And I’ve been very fortunate in my past where I brought in the right group of people who had skill sets beyond what I had, and I’m asking them, okay, show me what it is we need to do. Tell me what it is we need to do, and helping us to lead to new discoveries and new journey.

 

Jim Rembach: : (22:53)

Well, Joe, talking about building those teams, talking about transformation, talking about taking a different path than what everybody else was going down. I mean, those are things that happen because of learning experiences that we’ve had and I’m sure we talked about getting over the hump because they set us hopefully in a better direction and most oftentimes they do. Is there a time where you’d got over the pump that you can share?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (23:14)

Yeah, absolutely. I was with an organization about five, six years ago and I was talking about it earlier. They were starting to lose to their competition. You know, they had very traditional hierarchies and processes and other organizations were being much more experimental and innovative and they were doing things faster. And the organization that I worked for realized we’re losing to our competition. We need to change the way we do. And so with that initiative, I challenged my team and they challenged me in the same mindset was we need to start thinking differently how we deliver learning and how we support performance across this organization. And so through a number of brainstorming and strategy sessions, we started coming up with ideas based on the things that we had heard across the organization of the how and the means of which people were actually learning. So we started exploring the use of video.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (24:03)

We started exploring the use of social media, the internal Yammer channel. I talked about how to become web developers and SharePoint. So we started moving away from that whole training mindset is starting to look more of this. What is that learning ecosystem is for an individual or for a team? And what is the learning journey that we create? And so that really became our mindset was it was no longer easy or no longer could we go through the idea of a one and done and we move on. It was, you’re building a course, uh, you’re doing some instructor led workshop. It’s what’s next. Now you’re following that story as those individuals, whether they be leaders or individual contributors as they go on, apply that knowledge and skill. You follow them through those experiences to say, okay, what were your successes? What were your challenges? What would have helped? You know? And you start to build up all the resources they need around that, that, that way, hopefully, hopefully over a short period of time, the next person who comes through that learning journey has a much easier than the person that went before them. And you just keep improving.

 

Jim Rembach: : (25:04)

Well, I would dare to say the whole transformation process also takes a while. Uh, and also when I start talking, I’m thinking about learning and development, you know, transforming and people doing things different, you know, that’s just going to take well. But what I still, you know, you and the whole, you know, stop training method and, and focus and all of that. Um, I started thinking about you having certain goals and also the content that you create and all of that. But if I was to look at one goal that you had, what should I be looking at?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (25:33)

One goal for me is continuous learning is I am always looking for what’s my next thing to learn about. And I’m basing that on what I’m seeing in the industry, right? So most recently, like for instance, the world economic forum came out with their top 20 skills for 2020 critical thinking, creative thinking, things like that. So those are the things I start exploring for myself. So that way when I’m having these dialogues with people, I can share what I’ve learned on my journey, which helps make me, hopefully I’m better, I better bring more value and a better partner to my clients and to the people I work with. [inaudible]

 

Jim Rembach: : (26:07)

and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Speaker 5: (26:14)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with their colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work. Visit [inaudible] dot com

 

Jim Rembach: : (26:33)

four slash better. All right. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the

 

Speaker 5: (26:37)

Oh Oh,

 

Jim Rembach: : (26:40)

okay. But they hold on as a part of our where you give

 

Jim Rembach: : (26:44)

us good insights. I’m don’t ask several questions and your job is to give us robust yet read responses are going to help us move onward and upward. Facile. Joe Dunlap, are you ready to hold down? I’m ready to hold down. Alright, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? Organizational culture it at, you’re still fighting it.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (27:03)

An organizational culture that exist and changing those mindset and practices will always slow you down.

 

Jim Rembach: : (27:09)

What is the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (27:13)

The best leadership advice I ever received is be humble in your practice and have humor in yourself, knowing that you’re not going to be the person who knows everything and it’s good to have humor about that as you actually becoming a better leader every day.

 

Jim Rembach: : (27:27)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (27:32)

Um, did I listen to smart people? I want the advice of people who are telling me what they think the solution is versus going along my own immediate solution or thought process.

 

Jim Rembach: : (27:42)

And what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (27:47)

Uh, I think it is that personal approach. So like I talked about before, it’s embracing that other people have opinions and ideas and experiences and that I want to hear them so that I can incorporate them into my overall effort of what I’m trying to produce.

 

Jim Rembach: : (28:01)

And what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any genre.

 

Joe Dunlap:: (28:06)

Um, I would recommend really, uh, it’s actually more of a documentary and it’s something I saw various and recently recently on Netflix and it’s the Steve jobs bill Gates story. And as you watch and it just covers their entire history from the 1970s well into 2000 and it talks about how they changed an entire industry. They’ve made an entire industry. Um, so here’s two individuals that have both dropped out of college. They both had these ideas of how to now transform the way that we work, the way that we live. And that to me was valuable as I watched that documentary because I think we’re seeing it. We see it every day is that we have these people who are transforming the way that we live and we have to open up our mindset. Anything is possible.

 

Jim Rembach: : (28:48)

Okay. Past literal age and you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/ Joe Dunlap. Okay, Joe, this is my last hump. Hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have all the knowledge and skills that you have now and at durability to take back, but you can’t take it all and you can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Joe Dunlap:: (29:12)

What skill or piece of knowledge would I take back with me? Um, the openness to change and the reason I would do that is because I think very early in my career and certainly throughout my time as a leader, probably told that within the last seven to 10 years because I had a mindset in place of what a leader did and how they thought. And then I was giving orders and telling people to do this. And now seeing the transformation that we, and I wish I would have stepped back much earlier in my career and embraced other and processes and ideas that probably would’ve made me a much better individual contributor and leader than I am today. Joe, it was fun to spend time with you today. Can you please share what the best leader Legion, how they can connect with you? Absolutely. You can find me on my LinkedIn profile. Joseph Dunlap. Uh, I am currently an independent contractor and I live in Germantown, Wisconsin. I would love to hear from you,

 

Jim Rembach: : (30:03)

Joe Dunlap. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The past leave Legion honors you and thank you for helping us get over the hump. Thank you for joining me on the fast leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers and access to download and subscribe. If you haven’t already, head on over fast leader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

The post 248: Joe Dunlap: It’s time to stop training appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Joe Dunlap Show Notes Page Joe Dunlap is the son of a US Air Force officer and spent most of his youth moving every two years from one Air Force base to another along with his younger sister.  He is a second-generation Bachelor and Master degree gradua... Joe Dunlap is the son of a US Air Force officer and spent most of his youth moving every two years from one Air Force base to another along with his younger sister.  He is a second-generation Bachelor and Master degree graduate.
Joe entered into Learning and Development by accident.  After completing his undergraduate degree in the Northeast, he applied for numerous jobs in Texas with little luck until a university offered him a position as a Hall Director, as long as he was also a graduate student.  Since it was late April at this time, the only department at the university that had rolling applications for grad school was the Department of Education.
Joe started a joint program in Adult Learning and Org Development with no intentions of finishing it.  Two years later I had an M Ed, he was working in HR at another university in Org Dev and some Adult Learning and here he is a long, long time later still working in L&D.
Joe started his career as a stand-up facilitator using PowerPoint and Word.  As technology evolved into eLearning, Podcasting, Video, and LMSs, he was an early adopter which allowed him to expand his competencies and services.  As the use of eLearning and LMSs grew, he became a SME for L&D technology which led him to being a leader of an L&D technology team.
Over the last few years he has researched, implemented, practiced and managed the evolving mindsets, practices, technology, and methods being used by organizations in the Digital Transformation era and implemented those within L&D as both a leader and consultant.  He is also a writer of L&D Transformation on LinkedIn.
Joe currently lives in Germantown, WI with his wife and the last of his three daughters, three cats and a dog; he’s the only male in the house, aaaaagh.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to Joe Dunlap get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet
“With the growing skills gaps, how do we now deliver learning faster?” – Click to Tweet
“Move away from that training mindset and move into other possibilities.” – Click to Tweet
“Let’s talk about the problem because learning and development is only one piece of solving that particular problem.” – Click to Tweet
“Once training is done, what’s next because that’s not the end of the story?” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15132 https://www.fastleader.net/omarlharris/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/omarlharris/feed/ 0 <p>Omar L Harris Show Notes Page Omar L Harris coasted on his own individual talent early in his career. The first time he led a team, he began to carry the performance of the team on his shoulders. This caused him to be hospitalized and suffer from panic attacks. Finally, he realized he needed to [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/omarlharris/">247: Omar L Harris: Leadership giants have gaps</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Omar L Harris Show Notes Page

Omar L Harris coasted on his own individual talent early in his career. The first time he led a team, he began to carry the performance of the team on his shoulders. This caused him to be hospitalized and suffer from panic attacks. Finally, he realized he needed to trust his people and put them in the right place to win.

Born to a chemical engineer father and social worker mother in the working-class town of Pittsburgh, PA, Omar L. Harris learned the values of connecting process to outcomes and the importance of being of service to others at an early age. Being the youngest of four boys in a family of 5 children he endured a lot of hope and pressure to succeed where others had failed in order to uplift and support his family. Moving from Pittsburgh to Charleston, WV, to Lake Charles, LA over the course of his childhood and adolescence engendered in Omar the ability to adapt to constant change which has been his status quo as an adult living all over the US and spending considerable time living and working in the Middle East, Asia, and Latin America.

As a young professional in the pharmaceutical industry, he was exposed to Gallup’s StrengthsFinder tool back in 2002 which informed his philosophy of focusing on what was right with people versus what was not. According to the StrengthsFinder assessment, Omar learned that he was naturally gifted with the ability to forge connections between seemingly unrelated items, influence transformation from good to great, quickly generate options, inspire confidence in others, and confront and overcome obstacles. Honing his natural talents into reliable strengths he successfully matriculated through Pfizer and ultimately found a corporate home at Schering-Plough as a fast-track management associate where he worked for one of the most successful marketing teams in the pharmaceutical industry. He became the youngest marketing director and senior marketing director in the company’s history before Schering-Plough was acquired by Merck.

His 8 years of experience working on this high performing team became the seed that would germinate and ultimately grow into his book Leader Board: The DNA of High Performance Teams.

Omar began leading teams in 2006 and began implementing principles he’d learned reading books by John C. Maxwell, Tom Rath, Patrick Lencioni, Stephen Covey, and Jim Collins to name a few. Over time he found significant gaps between the brilliant theories of these leadership giants and the exact application in the day-to-day minutiae of leading a team in the real world. So, he set out to synthesize and adapt these concepts into a suite of Team Performance Acceleration Principles that he’s used with teams of different sizes and scopes all over the world to drive results.

Omar currently lives alone in Sao Paulo, Brazil where he works as Country Manager – Brazil for Allergan.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to Omar L Harris (@strengthsleader) to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“If you provide positivity to others, you in turn fill your own well of positivity.” – Click to Tweet

“You can avoid the negativity trap simply by trying to do something nice for other people.” – Click to Tweet

“Be aware of your impact of positive and negative on your team and organization.” @strengthsleader – Click to Tweet

“The more positive energy you put out, the more you’re going to get back.” – Click to Tweet

“By putting positive actions in place, you have the ability to drain the well of negativity.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s a halo effect when the leader is intentionally being positive.” – Click to Tweet

“The information about you as a leader can get transmitted faster than ever before.” – Click to Tweet

“If you are a negative leader or toxic leader in today’s environment, everyone’s going to know and no one’s going to want to work for you.” – Click to Tweet

“In today’s world you can no longer get away with being a toxic leader.” – Click to Tweet

“HR cannot create a personal relationship with your people with you.” – Click to Tweet

“One of the reasons we’re seeing this global disengagement crisis is because managers are increasingly less engaged and involved in their people’s lives.” – Click to Tweet

“Where you went to school, how smart you are on an IQ test and your past success, does not predict your future.” – Click to Tweet

“As a leader, don’t assume that the behavioral attributes you need to be successful are there.” – Click to Tweet

“Every project has elements of execution, influencing, relationship building, and strategic thinking to it.” – Click to Tweet

“If you’re a poor leader, changing companies is not going to make you a better leader.” – Click to Tweet

“You need to make sure your character is at the utmost level at all times.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s different coaching aspects depending on which stage your team is in.” – Click to Tweet

“The numbers are depressing if you look at the employee engagement numbers.” – Click to Tweet

“Focus on the person, not the role.” – Click to Tweet

“Everything happens in due time, don’t get ahead of yourself.” – Click to Tweet

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Hump to Get Over

Omar L Harris coasted on his own individual talent early in his career. The first time he led a team, he began to carry the performance of the team on his shoulders. This caused him to be hospitalized and suffer from panic attacks. Finally, he realized he needed to trust his people and put them in the right place to win.

Advice for others

Everything happens in due time, don’t get ahead of yourself.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Not working out enough.

Best Leadership Advice

Focus on the person, not the role.

Secret to Success

Daily habits that lead to future outcomes.

Best tools in business or life

My energy, positivity, and my enthusiasm.

Recommended Reading

Leader Board: The DNA of High Performance Teams (Leader Board Series)

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable

How Full Is Your Bucket?

Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t

Contacting Omar L Harris

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omarlharris/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/strengthsleader

Website: https://www.omarlharris.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

231: Jim Harter: Chief Scientist Workplace, Gallup

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

247: Omar L Harris: Leadership giants have gaps

 

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Jim Rembach: Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I had the opportunity to interview somebody who I have actually had the chance to interview before and he brings such a wealth and depth of experience and knowledge that I’m looking forward to this conversation. Even more than the last, born to a chemical engineer, father and social worker, mother in the working class town of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Omar L Harris, learn the values of connecting process to outcomes and the importance of being of service to others. At an early age, being the youngest of four boys in a family of five children, he endured a lot of hope and pressure to succeed where others had failed in order to uplift and support his family. Moving from Pittsburgh to Charleston, West Virginia to Lake Charles, Louisiana over the course of his childhood and adolescence endured in Omar the ability to adapt to constant change, which has been his status quo as an adult, living all over the U S and spending considerable time living and working in the middle East, Asia and Latin America.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:02)

As a young professional in the pharmaceutical industry. He was exposed to Guelph StrengthFinder tool back in 2002 which informed his philosophy of focusing on what was right with people versus what was not. According to the StrengthsFinder assessment, Omar learned that he was naturally gifted with the ability to forge connections between seemingly unrelated items, influenced transformation from good to great quickly generate options, inspire confidence in others and confront and overcome obstacles, honing his natural talents into reliable strengths. He successfully matriculated through Pfizer and ultimately found a corporate home at shearing plow as a fast track management associate where he worked for one of the most successful marketing teams in the pharmaceutical industry. He became the youngest marketing director and senior marketing director in the company’s history. Before Schering plough was acquired by Merck is eight years of experience working on this high performing team, became the seed of what would germinate and ultimately grow into his book leaderboard the DNA of high performance teams.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:03)

Omar began leading teams in 2006 and began implementing principles. He’d learned reading books by John C. Maxwell, Tom Rath, Patrick Lensioni, Stephen Covey, and Jim Collins. To name a few over time, he found significant gaps between the brilliant theories of these leadership giants and the exact application in the day to day minutia of leading a team in the real world. So he set out to synthesize and adapt these concepts into a suite of team performance acceleration principles that he used with teams of different sizes and scopes all over the world to drive results. Omar currently lives alone and saw Paul Brazil where he works as a country manager of Brazil for Allegan where he loves to travel and experience the culture. Omar L Harris, are you ready to help us get over the hump? Let’s do it. Let’s do it, man. I’m glad you’re here. Now given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? Or my current really is,

 

Omar L Harris:: (03:00)

uh, writing. So that’s where the author comes in leading. So, which is why I maintain a position at Oregon and lead an enterprise over 300 people and high performance strengths coaching. So basically helping people understand what’s great about them and put it into action to overcome their obstacles and achieve their goals.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:17)

Well, I’m talking about action. I mean your book leaderboard is just loaded with a lot of opportunities for that to take place. Um, being able to take, like you have said, some of those gaps that we often find in theory and making them real. But I think first of all, we often have to realize that there’s potential pitfalls and things that we can run into. In the very beginning of the book, you talk about negativity trap. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is?

 

Omar L Harris:: (03:44)

So the negativity trap is really where you get into a mindset or the negative cycle of negative thinking that perpetuates negative outcomes. And this really comes from the book. How full is your bucket? Um, was written by Donald O Clifton and Tom Rath, uh, back in, I think the early two thousands was what came out. And so, uh, what was most interesting about that particular, that particular book was it was a, uh, a great example of PLW in term camps, uh, in China. And the psychological effect, uh, that the, the, the captors used all the captives to basically utilize negative reinforcement to perpetuate a hopelessness and sort of hopeless hopelessness. And the captives, it didn’t do torture. It didn’t, you know, beat them. They didn’t treat them poorly. They just gave them bad news about their fit. They wrote letters, for example, from the point of view of the family members dying in the U S as an example, or, uh, they would perpetuate other negative thoughts in the captives.

 

Omar L Harris:: (04:45)

And this led to was sense of hopelessness and people basically die the hopelessness and these camps not up toward turnout of other things. So, uh, that was a very powerful example that I took from, from reading. Uh, how full is your bucket? And then the inverse of that situation is the theory that if you provide positivity to others, you intern for your own well of positivity so you can further be energized into your job and be engaged. So the idea that you can avoid the negativity trap simply by trying to do something nice for other people. So what I always tell people who are coming to me with negativity in my office and on a daily basis is, you know, do something nice for someone that somebody else, here’s something positive for somebody else. Be aware of your impact, both positive and negative on your teams and on your organization. The more positive energy you put out, the more you’re going to get back to providing a more. So it’s a bit of a virtuous circle. So, so you have to avoid the negative negativity trap, which is really these negative doubts, beliefs, self limiting beliefs, um, career limiting beliefs, things that we all have anxieties, fears, worries,

 

Jim Rembach: (05:53)

okay.

 

Omar L Harris:: (05:53)

And counteract that by simply putting positive action into place. By putting positive actions into place, you have the ability to really, uh, to drain the well of negativity. Refill with the Willow positivity. And this is the first, the book starts off with this example because, uh, more than any of the thing, there is a, there’s a halo effect of the Fado the leader on the organization when the, when the, when the leader is intentionally being positive with their, uh, with their organization versus when you’re not aware of your actual impact on those around you. So it’s about self-awareness. It’s about intentionally being positive because you know, that’s going to have a far more powerful impact on employee engagement or productivity, and you’re going to get it back into yourself as well.

 

Jim Rembach: (06:38)

Well, to me, what you just said, right there is the really the importance of modeling because I think, you know, it’s too easy for us, especially where if we’re in a position where we have some subordinates to oftentimes fall into the trap to where it’s like, okay, you know, don’t do what I’m doing. Do what I’m telling you to do.

 

Omar L Harris:: (06:57)

Right? Right. And today’s employees, the millennials and those coming after them, they’re watching you basically. You know, the idea of transparency is everywhere, right? Transparency on the web, transparency on social media. Uh, uh, right now there are websites and services where bosses are being rated by their employees of glassdoor.com so everybody’s watching you now and the information about you as a leader is can get transmitted faster than ever before. If you are a negative leader or a toxic leader in today’s environment, everyone’s going to know and no one’s going to where want to work for you. Whereas before you kind of get away with it today in today’s world, you can no longer get with being a toxic leader. And so that’s really why I start the book with the negative trap negativity trap to show that the main character of the story is trying to avoid that so he can basically perpetuate something positive for himself. And then for the organization.

 

Jim Rembach: (07:46)

Well, one of the things that’s important to all of this as well is making sure that when we’re selecting people for our teams, regardless of the size, and I would dare to say the smaller the team that even more important than it is, is that we don’t just necessarily go through a very typical, our common process of interviewing you actually use something that’s a little bit different. What is that?

 

Omar L Harris:: (08:08)

So my principle is called interviewing, but interviewing begins actually after the person has been hired to the team. So it’s a step of onboarding. So one of the things that really is really amazing to me in today’s day and age is that leaders outsource onboarding to HR. So HR cannot create a personal relationship with your people, with you. HR is not going to sell your people on you. Think about this. When you hire someone, if the maximum out of time is spent with you as their hiring managers, probably an hour in that first interview you did with them, right? You think that there’s a bond of trust already created and a bond of they understand your style. What’s going to work for you, what works for them and how you guys are going to work together to for powerful part partnership and really drive no. So interviewing is taking the next step to saying, listen, we work together.

 

Omar L Harris:: (09:00)

I as your leader, habit, intense interest and curiosity about who you are, the person, what makes you who you are and I’m going to sit down with you over the course of two to three hours and get to know the building blocks of you, your motivators, your desires, your drivers, your strengths, your weaknesses, things you hate, things that drive me crazy things you love. Because when I have all that information right from the beginning, first of all, the fact that I’m asking these questions creates proximity between the two of us. The second thing it does is it builds trust because it shows that my manager is concerned about knowing me as a person before we start talking about what my job actually is. So it’s no the person focused on a person, not just a role. And those two things combined creates a powerful partnership between you and your employee, which is the building block.

 

Omar L Harris:: (09:49)

If you have that with every individual member of your team, this is how you begin to talk through some of the stages of group formation and hack some of that process, which we’ll talk about it a little bit. I’m sure Jim. So, but that’s, that’s what interviewing really is, is a, a standardized approach during the onboarding process within month one, someone coming on your team where you sit down and really reveal yourself, become vulnerable, let them know about your life, you get to understand their life, build up our partnership and then, uh, take a, take a, take a

 

Jim Rembach: (10:18)

stuff from there. Well one of the things that also to me is quite, um, the opportunity when you start talking about that is I could even do that to my boss. So like for example, they may not come with me with this, you know, come to me with this particular, you know, interview process. However, I could essentially be using this tool in order for me, you know, as their direct report to get to know them better. You know, whether or not, you know, it’s, it’s open and open discussion and that they’re willing to do it. I just need to collect this information so that when I do try to get, you know, my ideas forth in an approved, when I try to, you know, um, have them enable us to get certain things done that only they can do. I mean I see it being as very a lot of ways.

 

Omar L Harris:: (11:04)

So Jim you are, you’re going to the bed step cause that’s actually you’re exactly right. You know the questionnaire works both ways. You know, I’m trying to influence leaders to be more people oriented and I’m asking them to do the stuff of doing interviews. But if you’re an employee you also have an obligation to break crate, break, bridge that barrier with your, with your manager. So it works both ways. And actually when I started my new job with Allegan last summer when I joined it and moved to Brazil from Indonesia, I actually sat down with my new manager who was the senior vice president of LA, of the [inaudible] region and I, I did an interview with him, a reverse interview. So we sat down over lunch and I actually use the process that we built the bond of trust right from the beginning I understood what his pet peeves were, I understood what he expected from me style wise, what expected for me from a communications perspective. I understood about his life, the fact that he had kids and you know his birthday well, whether it was important for him. So we got to a different level of, of comradery over the course of a two hour lunch and then our relationship was off to the races from that moment on. So you’re exactly right. It doesn’t just speak, it shouldn’t just be the manager to the, to the new colleague at Oxford, the colleagues. It’s actually very powerful for colleagues,

 

Jim Rembach: (12:14)

manager as well. Well, and I want to make sure that people kind of understand when we start talking about the reverse interview process is that certain cultures, that’s kind of expected. If we’re talking about the North American culture, specifically in the United States, we oftentimes will shirk or discount the importance of doing something like that because we think it’s invasion of somebody’s privacy. But in fact that’s how you build relationships is getting to those things because it’s not what, we don’t want to know what it is that people do. What we want to know is who are they.

 

Omar L Harris:: (12:45)

Exactly. Exactly. And the best teams I’ve ever worked for Jim or teams where we were involved in each other’s lives, we got personal. So, so, and I think if you’re going to spend all this time working with a group of people to achieve a goal and you don’t get personal, uh, it’s, it’s really, what’s the point of it. I mean, I think that’s, you know, keeping it a hundred percent professional and only what happened when people walk into the office. You don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes at the teammate or as a boss. Um, you’re really missing a major trick in terms of motivation and engaging the organization. That’s probably one of the reasons why we’re seeing this global disengagement crisis because managers are increasingly less engaged and involved in their people’s lives. They don’t understand what’s happening. I’ll give you, I’ll give you another example, Tim. I’m doing my midyear performance reviews, right? And one of the questions that I’m asking you, my major performance reviews is, um, tell me, uh, how, how has your level of stress right now, how has your current level of engagement with, uh, with me and with the enterprise and with the products we’re working on? Um, how was your overall health and is there anything in your personal life affecting your performer friend? Now I’m asking these questions in a mini review. I can ask these questions because I’ve already done interviews with all of these people.

 

Jim Rembach: (14:01)

Okay.

 

Omar L Harris:: (14:01)

And we already have trust. If I just come out the door asking questions like this, you know, it’s not going to work. But because I’ve already put the work in, uh, when I ask questions like this that are really caring and understanding questions and let me know what’s going on with somebody, um, it’s not taken in a wrong way and we, it further builds those last so’s trust.

 

Jim Rembach: (14:20)

It’s funny that you say that because I, um, a while back was doing a mid year review with, uh, somebody who was reporting to me and I started asking him questions about how could I, you know, better serve and support them, how could I, you know, and basically that was the gist of the review process. Um, and then when it was all done, she looked at me kinda fun and she said, is that it? And I’m like, well, yeah. And she goes, that is the strangest review that I have.

 

Omar L Harris:: (14:49)

But, but, but we’re, we’re, we are are of like minds. Jim, I asked the exact same question because for me, once again, that whole concept of servant leadership, I work for you. I did a rule book bears from you, so you can be massively successful if you’re successful. I’m successful.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:04)

Most definitely. Okay. So another thing when you start talking about identifying the right people, you use another little bit of a twist, somewhat of an acronym, uh, and then you use something called boom, a, w, H. O. M. what does that stand for and what does that do?

 

Omar L Harris:: (15:18)

So whom is the step before interviewing, which is how I identify a high performance DNA right from the start. Let me give you the background of this. So going, bridging another leadership Titan’s philosophy into the practical application. So one of my favorite books is good to great. I love good to great so much. We have a read good to great. It’s a study of a top tier companies. They had a peer group and basically they deliver 10 times market performance over a 30 year period. And they were studied by Jim Collins and associates. And then they wrote a book, uh, of somewhat, uh, not, uh, obvious insights about what made the, what made the great companies distinguish themselves from the good companies. So the first principle of good to great was not, you know, a counterintuitive insight was not they had the best mission or had the best process.

 

Omar L Harris:: (16:11)

It was called first. Who then what first, who then what says as a basic principle, get the right people on the bus and then decide where the bus was going. Right. I loved that and I kind of committed it to memory, but then I’m in a day to day world and I’m like, but who are the who? How do I decide who the right people are? Is that experience pedigree, a, you know, a past success? Is that the best measure of who I started there? Then I realized that actually where you went to school, how smart you are and an IQ test and your past success is not necessarily predict your future success. I have to go deeper. So I created an acronym initially was just work ethic, heart and optimism. And that was built out of, uh, really thinking about the teams that I worked on that were very successful.

 

Omar L Harris:: (17:00)

And what did everyone on those teams have in common? Well, we all worked really hard. We had shared passion and we saw problems and barriers as opportunities and not as things that were going to slow us down or stop us. So I use the who principle for many, many years. And then when I was working in Indonesia, I added the M, which is maturity because I, as I become, uh, increasing my leadership in terms of leading leaders, deleting leaders of leaders and leading leaders of leaders of leaders, the higher up you go. So for example, now I’m leading leaders of leaders of leaders, but shorty becomes a much more important attribute. And you can’t assume it’s because someone is, you know, 45, 50 years old or in their forties that they’re mature. And what I mean by maturity is they can deal with inevitable disappointment. They can deal with conflicts productively when they arise and then make a positive outcomes come out of that.

 

Omar L Harris:: (17:53)

Because so then I begin utilizing, creating questions from maturity that complemented the entire, uh, big fire cycles. So now when I hire a team for a team, anyone who comes on my team, they have to prove to me that they have the necessary level, minimum level of work ethic, heart optimism and maturity. My current team now is comprised of all these individuals. We don’t have unnecessary conflicts about silly things. We’re very focused on the mission. We all are aligned. The passionate about what we’re doing and when we kind of problems were very quick and collaborative to solve them together. So, um, high performance is almost guaranteed if you have that DNA right from the start, which is why I recommend hiring the right home.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:37)

Well, and as you are saying that, I kind of chuckled inside because I used to have this saying that I use quite often and you see, you’re causing me to reflect and bring it on back. As I was talking about my career of managing, you know, hundreds of people through operations, um, at various times is that I, I would say I’ve been blessed. I’ve had the opportunity to lead 18 year old men and 65 year old boys.

 

Omar L Harris:: (19:07)

There it is. You brought, you brought the whole thing home. And the whole point is as a leader, don’t assume that the behavioral attributes you need to be successful are there. Um, and, and so, so a lot of times we focus on someone’s town and their potential, uh, but these people are destructive on teams. You know, I’ve dealt with some of the smartest people you could ever lead. And individually they are superstar, they’re brilliant, but he put them in an, around another group of people and the frustrations boil over and people don’t move fast enough for them. And, and then it just creates unnecessary attention that people can’t get things done and it becomes devolves into, you know, uh, just a lot of negativity. And you’re in that storming phase that we’re going to talk about a little bit later.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:52)

Yeah. And let’s talk about that. Okay. So, and you’re talking about the, the, the team work and the team building process. I mean that talking about going back on those Titans that that was done back in the forties or 50s, I think. And you probably have more insight and sharing on that, but there’s a specific process that teams go through and, and it, it and it actually evolves and, and sometimes you go back two steps and move forward, but about that team process.

 

Omar L Harris:: (20:18)

So, so Bruce Tuckman who’s a behavioral psychologist and a giant of behavioral psychology, uh, wrote an a landmark article called uh, group development and sequences. And in that landmark article, what he did was he basically took a lot of research from a lot of different disciplines on different groups of people and it looked to find the thin red line between all these studies. And what he found was that basically, uh, when you’re talking about groups of, you know, between one and 25 people, like smallest type groups, uh, when you put these people together and you give them a task, naturally they’re going to go through four stages. Forming is the first stage, storming is the second stage. Norming is the third stage. And performing his last days. Now forming is guaranteed. And I would say storming is guaranteed. Norming and performing are not guaranteed. Uh, you’re just because you’re in a group of people, you don’t always arrive at norming and you, most teams never actually arrive at performing.

 

Omar L Harris:: (21:21)

Um, although their managers or leaders may think they’re, they’re in high performance, but they’re not actually that actually performing. So let me go through each one of those stages for you, Jim. So we can break it down a little bit. Better. Forming happens either when it’s a brand new team, random people that are coming together. So basically, you know, it’s a start up and you’re starting a new organization or when the leader is new. So imagine you are a leader. Like I was coming into Brazil last year inheriting an organization. The team begins to form around me because my energy, this is my presence changes the organization. So we forming from that, from that perspective or forming happens when the mission changes. So imagine that you won a championship, but the next year you want to win another championship. Well, the next year’s task is different than the first year task.

 

Omar L Harris:: (22:08)

The team members may be different. That dynamics in the market may be different. So therefore you’re forming again around the task. So those are the three instances where you’re actually four. So basically it’s a group of people coming together to do a task. As you go through and begin to decide how you’re going to go about doing the task, you go into a phase called stormy, which is basically when everyone has a different opinion about how to accomplish the task. You put 10 people together and said, listen, uh, you know, uh, screw in a light bulb. That’s where the dope comes from, right? You’re going to find, you know, 10 different opinions about the best way to do that, right? So that’s storming. And then that show was basically everybody wanted to put their point of view on the table and say, listen, this is how we should go about doing some critical tasks.

 

Omar L Harris:: (22:52)

The leaders tried to assert their authority. Uh, individuals are trying to be political, either to become close to the leader or to basically remove the leader’s power. So it’s a very uncomfortable period of time because although people have, they know what the task is and they agree on the task, how to achieve the task has not yet been aligned. So norming is once you know, everyone is aware of the task and know what we’re trying to accomplish and we agree on how we’re going to go about achieving the task. So what are the rules of the road where the rules of the game? Now we’re in Norman, now we have certain rules and established ways of working that will allow us to go forward and accomplish the task. And usually it stops right there. It stops adoring because because you’ve gone through storming, what happens in norming that prevents high performance?

 

Omar L Harris:: (23:38)

Well, one thing, people will become too polite. They don’t want to disrupt the harmony that they’ve established after coming through stormy. So there’s an artificial harmony that pervades norming teams that the leader must disrupt. All of the leader can disrupt the artificial harmony by stimulating productive conflict, by stimulating productive conflict. Then you get to the next stage, which is performing. That is when, uh, not, not only does everybody know what the task is, not only does everyone have the ways of working, but everyone is laser focused and a hundred percent passionate on doing whatever it takes to achieve the task. That’s the difference between a performing team and a Normington. It’s a level of commitment and the level of focus and orientation towards nothing’s gonna stop us from achieving this task, not even artificial harmony. And that’s when you get to high performance.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:33)

Well, and when you start talking about yet another acronym, so we’ve hit a several. You, you close the book with something called [inaudible].

 

Omar L Harris:: (24:43)

So really what I wanted to do was, uh, because once again, Bruce Tuckman wrote a great article, right about forming, storming, norming, and performing. There’s nothing in the article that says, what should a leader be doing? Or how can a leader actually help a group of people faster move through these stages. So that’s where the teeth have come into play. Because basically I have identified in the literature and in my own personal experience that there are definitely proactive ways a leader can take to speed. The group from forming to performing. And so the team performance acceleration principles or T paps or the state that the actual practical application things you can do starting today that will allow you to move much faster through forming jump right through storming gets normally very quickly and then get to performing after that. So there’s five team performances or it’s principles linked to each one of the stages of group formation. And that’s really unique about leaderboard is that there’s never been that kind of guidance linked to the state as a group formation put together before. And it’s not only my own, uh, own ideas, it’s also the amalgamation of the best, the leadership from the greatest minds on business, uh, business and operations and organizations, uh, over the last 20 or 30 years. But what’s different is it’s all practical application. It’s all things you can do, download tools and start utilizing them today.

 

Jim Rembach: (26:15)

Well, I think that’s the missing component for so many folks and they need to get, you know, charged, energized, uh, excited, motivated, you know, when they hear and read, you know, certain things about leading. And then it’s like, okay, now let’s go do it. And we’re like, where do we start? And it’s crickets. Right?

 

Omar L Harris:: (26:32)

Exactly. Exactly. So, so you know what I, what I like to say is I’ve, you know, the first person that goes through the wall gets the blood and knows, I’ve gone to the, what I’ve gotten the Belinda nodes for everybody. I’ve actually taken the pain and time to try to implement these things in the real world, see what works, what does not filter all that out and give you a curated list of tools that will definitely work to move the needle forward for your organization.

 

Jim Rembach: (26:59)

Well, and as I had mentioned to you, I mean, going through the book, I mean, I was inspired in a lot of different ways. Uh, I also had the opportunity to have, uh, dr Jim harder on the fast leader show who is the chief research scientist of workplace for Gallop, uh, who is author of this book called H the manager. He also shares a lot, a bit about, a lot about the strengths. And while, you know, there are some people out there that will talk about the strengths and even you know that strengths finder and identifying and you know, all of that, you know, has some gaps in it as well. It’s nothing is perfect here, but I th and I think one of the things that you’ve done with leaderboard, and I think you’re also, you know, working on some additional works associated with that, you know, is making it, like you said, it’s tangible. The day to day this is okay, you know, TA take all of this theory, you know, and do these things and now you’ll have success.

 

Omar L Harris:: (27:52)

Yeah. Speaking of the strengths specifically, and I’m glad you brought that up, Jim, is you know, as a certified strengths coach, I have a, I have a gigantic frustration I’m going to reveal to you right now, which is the power of focusing on what’s right with people versus what’s wrong with them as a leader to engage and really transform someone’s career is phenomenal. Two problems we have right now, only 20 million people globally have taken a strength finder assessment. So the vast majority of people still have not learned their strengths. What in globally there are less than 4,000 certified strengths coaches for 20 million people in the world. So even if you take the string spider test and you are very passionate and you and you, you get the, you get the bug that you want to develop restraints, that the likelihood that you’re going to find a strengths coach that was going to, that’s going to be able to take you through the process and help you improve is very difficult because of the, the, the gap between the number of people who are taking assessment and the number of actual strengths coaches.

 

Omar L Harris:: (28:56)

So leaderboard also fits in there to bridge that gap to a certain extent as well. Because when I talk about in the book and what I leaderboard actually is, so other than a clever title is uh, one of the actionable steps that we’re talking about. So all the leaderboard is, is taking principles from strengths based leadership, which was published back in 2008. Uh, and what strengths based leadership said is that, you know, there are 35 themes of talent. So basically everybody has, uh, 30, 34 teams of talent, talent, which are ordered in terms of their dominance from one to 34. Right? These things have talent. They say they organize it, the four domains of strength, so executing, influencing life stability and 50 thinking. So basically the 34 talents are organized in four domains of strength. Well, I take it a little bit further than than Gallup is, is to say what that means to me is that if I’m a leader looking at a group of people, that means I have people on my team who may be better than me in execution, who may be better than me at influencing outcomes, who may be better than me at relationship building or who me, who may be better than me, asked you to thinking I don’t have to be great at all of these things as leader anymore.

 

Omar L Harris:: (30:12)

I just have to be to put the people who are great at those things in there of straight sewed on a daily basis and then watch them that in capital. And that’s what a leaderboard is. A leaderboard is basically identifying the top domains of everyone on your team and the game of find the work. Because every project actually has elements of execution, influencing relationship building and should be thinking to it. So if you break down tasks and allocate them towards the individual or team who are strongest in those areas and gamify it, you’re going to start seeing progress towards goals accelerate at an exponential rate. And that’s what we did in our team as an actual example back in, you know, back in the early two thousands and that’s what a leaderboard is. And that’s the, that’s the real gold at the heart of the book is how do you apply strengths based leadership actually in the workforce 14 and take it a beyond the great theory of focusing on what’s great with people, but actually put it to work.

 

Jim Rembach: (31:12)

I mean, so for me, as you were talking, I’m like, well, that’s the personalization of work. I mean, what you’re doing is you’re making it right for me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, needless to say, when we start talking about a lot of, you know, the frustrations, um, a lot of the successes in the exhilaration, there’s a lot of things that help us really to get pointed in the right direction. And on the show we focus on quotes. Um, there are a quote or two that you liked that you can share.

 

Omar L Harris:: (31:38)

My favorite quote, and I don’t know if it applies to necessarily to, to, to what we’re talking about here, but, uh, is by Emerson. No change of circumstances can overcome the feet of character. So that’s something that I carry with me is that, you know, your, and I think it does link because if you’re talking about this transparency now that we have, and the fact that everything you do is watched and correlated and seeing roughly by the people who work for you, uh, you can’t, if you’re a poor leader, changing companies is not gonna make you a better leader. Uh, you need to put in the work, uh, and you need to make sure that your character is at the utmost level at all times, especially as a leader. So, you know, it’s inexcusable for the higher up you go to become a worse person. It’s inexcusable. I think the higher up we go, the better off we had to get them more actualized we have to become, and the more supportive we have to be for people because that’s why we’re, we given that great title was not, you know, because we were so as, because we have a lot more to give back to the, it’s not about the ego, it’s about what we have to get back to the organization. So I think that that quote for me kind of sums up that that idea

 

Jim Rembach: (32:48)

well and the modeling becomes even more important, doesn’t it?

 

Omar L Harris:: (32:50)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. So yeah, I really, I really am passionate about the servant leadership approach to religion, philosophy and, and really, uh, helping leaders understand that there is another way to achieve results. Top-down used to work still works in certain organizations, certain cultures in certain instances. But if he wants sustainable high performance, if you adopt servant leadership and begin to go to the customer and go to your front line and understand what the real challenges are and begin to drive solutions faster to those challenges, how can you not drive higher performance?

 

Jim Rembach: (33:27)

Well I think for me, um, like you were talking about is knowing and some people will call it situational leadership. So I mean I need to do top down. I mean I just need to want that longterm, you know, value generation and all that. Well then I need to switch on and I need more of the things that you’re talking about.

 

Omar L Harris:: (33:46)

And you’re right. And one of the things, the other things that I talk about in the team performance in the discussion section of the book is what is the role of the leader in the four stages? Because the change begin to form and you have to be on board directive. You do have to kind of tell people what to, to organize the group and organize the work. Whereas the storming, your mindset has to be coaching. You need to coach people a lot more. In norming, I talk about inspecting, so not coaching, but inspecting. So you’re, the mixture of the norms hold up under all circumstances. So there’s different coaching aspects depending on what stage your team is in. Um, and that will help you also move the team to the state is acknowledging what you have to do and what you have to exhibit for the group, for the group in that.

 

Jim Rembach: (34:29)

Well, and I would dare to say that the, or where you are now was a direct result of, you know, capturing a lot of information, self-awareness, you know, continuous commitment, you know, to learning all of those things that, you know, just didn’t come and your youth. And so when I start thinking about lessons learned, you know, we talk about getting over the humps. Is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

Omar L Harris:: (34:52)

Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think that, you know, early on in my career I coasted on talent, on my own individual talent. So my own ability to be a very, very hard working, but my own individual talent to put things together in a way that people hadn’t thought of before. And I kind of really coasted on that. But when I became a leader of organizations and teams, you know, the first time I led a team, I was trying to once again utilize my own individual towel to drive this group of people towards a goal. And I put the whole team on my bed and just like LeBron James catering the Cleveland Cavaliers to the chat, to the, to the finals in 2007 versus spurts. But as far as we’re a team, the problem is, is one guy who we only know who they are right now, right. That was like me back in 2006 I, I, you know, I was dragging my organization forward and we were getting some results done.

 

Omar L Harris:: (35:43)

But the moment I was out of the picture, it kind of collapsed. And that’s not leadership. Leadership is, you know, once again, sustainable DNA, it’s in the DNA. I mean means that when you, whether you’re there or not, these principles are going to be upheld and moving forward. So I think I had to overcome that hump because also the cost of myself was very personally challenging. I went through panic attacks once the hospital several times. At that same time of my life, I was working myself and putting so much pressure on myself individually that I almost broke myself. And I think that I had to reflect and really come back and say, listen, actually I’m not trusting my people enough. I’m not putting him in the right places to win and I have to invent a new way to do this. And that’s what I began to embark on the journey that ultimately began, uh, that ends with, uh, with leaderboard being published.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:35)

Well, and like I said, and I know you’re working on, you know, your next, you know, opportunity and your next book, I’m not going to get into that. I know that’s something that I, I would dare to say it out the course of your career, you’re probably going to produce several, but I know you said you’re a strengths coach finder. Um, you’re a country manager, you know your author, speaker. I mean you’ve got a lot of things going on. So when I start thinking about a goal, what’s one of your goals?

 

Omar L Harris:: (36:59)

Well, my main goal right now in one goal that you’re really helping, we miss Jim, is to really get some of these ideas out there. I think it’s not about that this is bigger than than Omar L Harris. It’s bigger than any one person. This is about, uh, how are we going to, the numbers are depressing. If you look at the employee engagement numbers, you look at what’s in what book. The book gets the, and it talks about employee engagement. You just get, the preps are like, listen, our our, how do we, we’re going to be in a perpetual recession or depression from an economic perspective, but we don’t get distinct fixed. Right? So for me, it’s really about trying to change the hearts and minds of principals, new leaders coming in. So I want to really focus on new people who are coming up and I’m really focused on doing whatever I can do in my power to get the word out to the new leaders coming in that there’s another way to do this.

 

Omar L Harris:: (37:54)

Um, and maybe not the ultimately right way, but there’s another way to do it, another path. There’ll be always be other paths of how to do things. Uh, so I think that’s one major goal that I have set for myself right now, which is where I’m probably really focused on, on that. And then am I, am I into the world is just, um, making sure that I am actually the example of these principles. So I think that, you know, one of the things that happens to you when you write a book like this, and you’re not a theoretical, uh, theoretical person. You’re not in academia. You’re actually doing it every day is people can say, Omar is not walking the talk. He wrote an entire book about this stuff and he doesn’t do any of it. Whereas actually when I’m talking to my team and my midyear reviews, one of my colleagues, she said to me, she said, Omar, you know, one of the great things that people appreciate about you is you wrote this book, but it’s 100%. You and I’ve met the world to me that actually that, you know, the, the, the, I w I’m really walking the talk and I think being that example, showing people that I’m not just talking about the stuff that I actually do, it is also really important to me right now to be somewhat of an example and, and to really talk to anybody who needs help on how they can make the transition. Cause I made it, um, uh, to the other side of this and that’s what I’m really focused on now.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:07)

And the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Speaker 3: (39:13)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work. Visit [inaudible] dot com four slash better. Okay. Omar, they’ll hope they hold on as a part of our show where you give us insights fast. Okay. Several questions. And your job is to give us robust get referee responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Harris, are you ready to hold down? Let’s do it. Alright, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? Not working out enough. So my own personal energy is that I need to work out for

 

Jim Rembach: (40:02)

my physical fitness. What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? Focused on the person, not the role. And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Omar L Harris:: (40:14)

Uh, daily habits that lead to future outcomes. So basically making sure that I’m focused on the right daily habits to lead the future outcomes. Although I’m not doing the workout enough and I am getting enough water, getting enough sleep, uh, reading every day, uh, and making some time for meditation on a daily basis.

 

Jim Rembach: (40:31)

And what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Omar L Harris:: (40:35)

My energy and my positivity and my enthusiasm.

 

Jim Rembach: (40:38)

And what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course. We’re going to put a link to leaderboard on your page as well.

 

Omar L Harris:: (40:46)

The five dysfunctions of a team by Patrick Lencioni.

 

Jim Rembach: (40:49)

Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show. I go into fast leader.net/omar L Harris. Okay, Omar, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Alright. Edge. And you are given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 knowledge and skills that you have now back with you. But you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Omar L Harris:: (41:13)

The only thing, I will go back and I’ll tell myself and give myself the perspective that everything happened to do time. Don’t get ahead of myself because, uh, you need to, I need to accumulate knowledge as well as, uh, accumulate, uh, promotions and whatnot was very focused on promotion to getting to a certain level. Uh, and I think that, you know, actually time and and perspective is equally valuable, not just moving fast, like a career. It was a fun time with you today. Can you please share the fast leader Legion, how they can connect with you? Yes. The best way to reach me facet of Legion is through my website, www.omarlharris.comomarlharris.com.

 

Jim Rembach: (41:55)

Oh, Omar Harris. It was an honor to spend time of the day and the fast leader Legion honors you. And thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 247: Omar L Harris: Leadership giants have gaps appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Omar L Harris Show Notes Page Omar L Harris coasted on his own individual talent early in his career. The first time he led a team, he began to carry the performance of the team on his shoulders. This caused him to be hospitalized and suffer from panic... Omar L Harris coasted on his own individual talent early in his career. The first time he led a team, he began to carry the performance of the team on his shoulders. This caused him to be hospitalized and suffer from panic attacks. Finally, he realized he needed to trust his people and put them in the right place to win.
Born to a chemical engineer father and social worker mother in the working-class town of Pittsburgh, PA, Omar L. Harris learned the values of connecting process to outcomes and the importance of being of service to others at an early age. Being the youngest of four boys in a family of 5 children he endured a lot of hope and pressure to succeed where others had failed in order to uplift and support his family. Moving from Pittsburgh to Charleston, WV, to Lake Charles, LA over the course of his childhood and adolescence engendered in Omar the ability to adapt to constant change which has been his status quo as an adult living all over the US and spending considerable time living and working in the Middle East, Asia, and Latin America.
As a young professional in the pharmaceutical industry, he was exposed to Gallup’s StrengthsFinder tool back in 2002 which informed his philosophy of focusing on what was right with people versus what was not. According to the StrengthsFinder assessment, Omar learned that he was naturally gifted with the ability to forge connections between seemingly unrelated items, influence transformation from good to great, quickly generate options, inspire confidence in others, and confront and overcome obstacles. Honing his natural talents into reliable strengths he successfully matriculated through Pfizer and ultimately found a corporate home at Schering-Plough as a fast-track management associate where he worked for one of the most successful marketing teams in the pharmaceutical industry. He became the youngest marketing director and senior marketing director in the company’s history before Schering-Plough was acquired by Merck.
His 8 years of experience working on this high performing team became the seed that would germinate and ultimately grow into his book Leader Board: The DNA of High Performance Teams.
Omar began leading teams in 2006 and began implementing principles he’d learned reading books by John C. Maxwell, Tom Rath, Patrick Lencioni, Stephen Covey, and Jim Collins to name a few. Over time he found significant gaps between the brilliant theories of these leadership giants and the exact application in the day-to-day minutiae of leading a team in the real world. So, he set out to synthesize and adapt these concepts into a suite of Team Performance Acceleration Principles that he’s used with teams of different sizes and scopes all over the world to drive results.
Omar currently lives alone in Sao Paulo, Brazil where he works as Country Manager – Brazil for Allergan.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to Omar L Harris (@strengthsleader) to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet
“If you provide positivity to others, you in turn fill your own well of positivity.” – Click to Tweet
Fast Leader Show Podcast 43:04 246: Charles Conn: You can easily take apart almost any problem https://www.fastleader.net/charlesconn/ Wed, 09 Oct 2019 06:37:27 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15106 https://www.fastleader.net/charlesconn/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/charlesconn/feed/ 0 <p>Charles Conn Show Notes Page Charles Conn used a really simple tool to solve the problems for a company with thousands of employees. It was this humble beginning which now finds Charles on a quest to solve the problems of the world. Charles Conn was born in Phoenix Arizona to half Canadian, half American parents, [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/charlesconn/">246: Charles Conn: You can easily take apart almost any problem</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Charles Conn Show Notes Page

Charles Conn used a really simple tool to solve the problems for a company with thousands of employees. It was this humble beginning which now finds Charles on a quest to solve the problems of the world.

Charles Conn was born in Phoenix Arizona to half Canadian, half American parents, more naturally based in Massachusetts where his dad had done his college education at MIT, and to which they returned when Charles was only 6 months old.

Charles was raised in Cambridge and Concord and a little town up on the New Hampshire border called Dunstable. Charles has a brother born 2 years after him. His parents divorced at 10, after which Charles’s mother went to art school and married her professor…which ensured a strange mix of engineering problem solving and artistic creativity as fundamental influences on his young life.

With an MIT engineer as a father and art professor mother and step father, Charles had dueling influences of analytic problem solving and more creative approaches as a backdrop to learning. This eventually led to a career as a partner of McKinsey, the consulting firm, but always with a focus on creative problem solving.

Charles then caught the internet bug early and moved like some erstwhile Beverley Hillbilly from Sydney to Los Angeles to lead a tech startup, Ticketmaster-Citysearch, that eventually successfully IPO’ed.  After that he returned to an early love of biology working with Intel-founder Gordon Moore in starting his new foundation dedicated to science-based conservation, where he learned that the problem solving technologies he helped develop at McKinsey scaled to environment level problems.

After this he led a turnaround at the Rhodes Trust in Oxford (returning him to his graduate school roots), where he developed a novel approach to leadership development for Rhodes Scholars and raised funds to right the Trust financially. While at the Rhodes Trust he and his former McKinsey colleague Rob McLean finally put pen to paper and wrote up their lives’ work, Bulletproof Problem Solving: The One Skill that Changes Everything.

And finally, Charles is now applying his problem-solving models to deep science, working as CEO of Oxford Sciences Innovation, the £600m venture firm founded in partnership with Oxford to develop its advanced technology ideas.

Charles is most proud to have helped develop the problem solving and leadership capabilities of hundreds of incredibly talented young people across many spheres who will no doubt do a better job than his generation at saving the planet.

Charles lives in lots of places: His day job has him based in Oxford England, but he commutes to Stockholm part of the year where his partner Camilla Borg lives. He keeps a foot hold in Sun Valley Idaho, where he owns a ranch, and Los Angeles. Charles’s partner is Camilla Borg, a Swede with skills in design and marketing. He has three grown children from a previous marriage.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to Charles Conn, CEO of @OSI_Updates to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“The great lesson of problem solving is, you can use a single technique for taking apart almost any kind of problem.” – Click to Tweet

“Our industries are being transformed in ways that would entirely foreign to our parents’ generation.” – Click to Tweet

“Traditional industries are being transformed at faster rates than has ever been true before.” – Click to Tweet

“The most critical thing now is, can you learn new things and can you solve problems in any sphere.” – Click to Tweet

“People need to be good at fluidly addressing problems in the workforce with small teams.” – Click to Tweet

“What we’re going to be rewarded for in the future is not some old body of knowledge you learned in the past.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s not what you knew before, it’s your ability to quickly mobilize with colleagues to solve problems as they arise.” – Click to Tweet

“People often surge of into problem solving without really thinking about what problem they’re trying to solve.” – Click to Tweet

“Most people don’t think hard about the problems before they run off and start building models.” – Click to Tweet

“People leave problems that are too lumpy and therefore they look unsolvable.” – Click to Tweet

“Even the most brilliant people fail to link their analytic findings to a really compelling story for why someone would change what they’re doing.” – Click to Tweet

“Problem Solving is always the answer to the question, what should I do?” – Click to Tweet

“How do you connect people’s brains with their feet in a way that’s compelling, that’s storytelling.” – Click to Tweet

“The more open problems are the more creative we can be.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s so much debate in the public square where people are just speaking past each other.” – Click to Tweet

“How do you show problems in a way where the solution becomes visual.” – Click to Tweet

“Don’t get it right, just get started.” – Click to Tweet

“You should make each incremental decision as a new decision.” – Click to Tweet

“Our human cognitive biases trip us up when we try to problem solve.” – Click to Tweet

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Hump to Get Over

Charles Conn used a really simple tool to solve the problems for a company with thousands of employees. It was this humble beginning which now finds Charles on a quest to solve the problems of the world.

Advice for others

Be entirely present instead of being focused on the future.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Negative images of self

Best Leadership Advice

Listen

Secret to Success

I wake up early and get to interact with myself before anybody else.

Best tools in business or life

I dis-aggregate every problem using logic trees.

Recommended Reading

Bulletproof Problem Solving: The One Skill That Changes Everything

The Selfish Gene: 40th Anniversary Edition (Oxford Landmark Science)

Contacting Charles Conn

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-conn-5008904/

Website: https://bulletproofproblemsolving.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript: 

Click to access edited transcript

Jim Rembach: 00:00 Okay, Fast Leader Legion today I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to help us be protected from some of the things that we really need to address today. Charles Conn was born in Phoenix, Arizona to half Canadian and half American parents, and he ended up growing up in Massachusetts near where his father had done his college education at MIT. Charles was raised in Cambridge and Concord and a little town up on the New Hampshire border called Dunstable. Charles has a brother born two years after him. His parents divorced at 10 after Charles, his mother went to art school and married her professor, which ensured a strange mix of engineering, problem solving and artistic creativity as fundamental influences on his young life with an MIT engineer as a father and an art professor, mother and stepfather, Charles had dueling influences of analytic problem solving and more creative approaches as a backdrop to learning.

Jim Rembach: 00:56 This eventually led to a career as a partner of McKinsey, the consulting firm, but always with a focus on creative problem solving. Charles then caught the internet bug early and moved some erstwhile Beverly hillbilly from Sydney to Los Angeles to lead a tech startup ticket master city search that eventually successfully IPO. After that, he returned to an early love of biology working with Intel founder Gordon Moore and starting his new foundation dedicated to science-based conversation where he learned that the problem solving technologies, he helped develop a McKinsey scale two environment level problems. After this, he led a turnaround at the Rhodes trust in Oxford where he developed a novel approach to leadership development for road scholars and raise funds to the right to write the trust financially. While at the Rhodes trust, he and his former McKinsey colleague Rob McClain finally put pen to paper and wrote up their life’s work.

Jim Rembach: 01:59 Bulletproof Problem Solving, the one skill that changes everything. And finally, Charles is now applying his problem solving models to deep science, working as a CEO of Oxford sciences, which is an innovation group and venture firm that was founded in partnership with Oxford to develop its advanced technology ideas. Charles is most proud to have helped develop the problem solving leadership capabilities of hundreds of incredibly talented young people across many spheres who will no doubt do a better job than his generation at saving the planet. Charles lives in lots of places. His day job has him based in Oxford, England, but he commutes to Stockholm part of the year where his partner Camilla Borg. He keeps a foothold in sun Valley, Idaho, where he owns a ranch and Los Angeles. Charles, his partner is Camilla Borg, a Swede with skills and design and marketing. He has three grown children from a previous marriage. Charles Conn, are you ready to help us get over the hump? I am. I’m ready, man. I am glad you’re here and I’m looking forward to a fantastic. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Charles Conn: 03:09 Yeah. The thing that I’m really excited about at the moment is deep science. And one of the really amazing things about my new job is I get to invest in and learn about, incredible new technologies, new cures for cancer, new diagnoses, techniques using epigenetics, uh, nuclear fusion, quantum computing, advanced materials. Every single day I get to learn something new. And that’s what really turns me on.

Jim Rembach: 03:35 Well, you know, even as you’re saying that and me having the opportunity to go through and learn more about your work on problem solving, you know, in the book Bulletproof problem solving where you actually share 30 case studies and tools that people can use to help with problem solving. I started thinking about all kinds of different problems with all of those different new technologies. And even when you start talking about, you know, people using those, um, accepting those, I mean, there’s a whole slew of problems that have to be addressed. However, I see that the system that you’ve created can work in every single one of those.

Charles Conn: 04:08 That’s exactly right. And what did this, the great lesson of this problem solving is, um, you can use a single technique for taking apart almost any kind of problem, whether it’s a simple problem like should I put solar panels on my roof or an incredibly complex problem? Like how do we make progress on climate change? Or how do we end homelessness and all the problems in between? Like should I increase the price on my product? All those things are amenable to the same kind of approach.

Jim Rembach: 04:38 Well, and this approach and this system and this learning and you know, you having the case study so that people can practice and get better at it. Because I think that’s vitally important. It’s just not a situation where you know about it. You have to actually do it. Is that you, these skills that people really need these days are in such great demand. I think for me, when I start looking at the book and, and the things that you’re teaching in here and your systems and stuff, I’m like, what better time than now for certain. But tell us about a little bit about that transformation and how what was needed yesterday is nowhere near close to what we need today.

Charles Conn: 05:20 Yeah. I think the biggest thing is the pace, and I think we all feel it, don’t we? Which is everything’s getting faster and faster and faster, and our industries are being transformed in ways that would be entirely foreign foreign to our parents’ generation. So whether we’re talking about automation or artificial intelligence and machine learning, traditional industries are being transformed at faster rates than has ever been true before. There was a time when you could go to university and learn a particular skill, you know, accounting or law or even medicine, or then you could practice that over the course of a 40 year that’s over. None of the next generation will be able to work in jobs like that. The most critical thing now is can you learn new things and can you solve problems in any sphere? Because most people born today will have five or six different careers in their lives and many more jobs than that. And what they need to be good at is fluidly addressing problems in the workforce with small teams.

Jim Rembach: 06:24 Well, and specifically you talk about the top skills. I mean it’s seems to me like everybody uses the 20, 20 years a marker. It’s like a, you know, that’s only a few months old, but you talk about these tops can’t 10 skills that are needed. I and for me there, they’re very complimentary to one another and you need to have skills and many of them. Um, but I want to read this list because I think it’s vitally important for everybody who’s listening to really pay attention to this. Uh, cause also you have a quote in here by Andreas Scott Scheidler. Uh, he basically says he is the actually director of education and skills and special advisor to the secretary general of the OEC D when he says put simply the world no longer rewards people just for what they know. Google knows everything but what they can’t, but we what for what they can do with what they know. And so those skills that are needed are problem solving, critical thinking, creativity, people management, coordinating with others, emotional intelligence, judgment and decision making, service orientation, negotiation and cognitive flexibility. So even when you started talking about people having multiple careers, not jobs. And I think that’s also vital distinction. I mean we’re talking about people doing a lot of different things that require deep knowledge and understanding is that it all comes down to these elements which are more people based.

Charles Conn: 07:57 That’s exactly right. What we’re going to be rewarded for in the future is not some old body of language that you, a body of knowledge you learned in the past, but your ability to work with your colleagues to crack the problems of the company at the day. And those are changing really quickly. So even if you work for a big media company or a big technology company, it’s not what you knew before. It’s your ability to quickly mobilize with colleagues to solve problems as they arise.

Jim Rembach: 08:25 Well, and with that, with that you have talk about, you know, the pitfalls people often run into when we start talking and mistakes. When we start talking about trying to problem solve, and I think it’s really important for us to walk through those before we get into the problem solving system. So could kind of run through those a little bit.

Charles Conn: 08:43 I’ll go through quickly. I mean what we find is that people often surge off into problem solving without really thinking about what problem they’re trying to solve. I know that sounds crazy, but a lot of times people won’t ask the question like how quickly do I need an answer? What areas are ruled out of bounds by my boss? For example? Um, how precise does the answer need to be? How big is the scope for creativity in this? Or do I need a very precise kind of answer that’s narrowly bounded? Most people don’t think hard about the problem before they run off and start building models, right? Second thing we often find is that especially your boss will assert an answer as opposed to really doing the problem solve thing. They’ll just sort of jump to the end point without actually doing the dis-aggregation that’s required to take a problem, a part into its constituents.

Charles Conn: 09:33 A fourth thing that we see all the time is neglecting. Or third thing is neglecting team structures and norms. And so people don’t, when they’re constructing a team, they don’t think about all the different kinds of people who can help contribute to an answer or ways that you can structure your problem solving to get better answers. So for example, in our teams we always make, make sure that the most senior person speaks last that way they don’t shade the problem. There’s something we call the sunflower effect where as soon as a senior person says something, everyone shifts their thinking to whatever they just said, which is absurd. A fourth thing is failure to desegregate problems. So people leave problems that are too lumpy and therefore they look unsolvable. And if you take problems into their parts, you can see the solution start from emerge. Last two things is that people often don’t imply a complete analytic tool set.

Charles Conn: 10:30 They’re afraid to use modern tools of statistics or game theory, artificial intelligence, all of which are now much more accessible than they used to be with quite good tools. And then finally, and this is the classic for even the most brilliant people, is they fail to link their analytic findings to a really compelling story for why someone would change what they’re doing. So for us, problem solving’s always the answer to the question, what should I do? And if you can’t tell the decision maker a compelling story about what to do, where you mobilize evidence against that, then you’re, you’re nowhere, you, we’ve all seen analysts, you know, who come in with a brilliant model but no story, why should I change?

Jim Rembach: 11:17 I think that’s a really important point because when we start thinking about a lot of these strategic decisions that need to be made and execution is we do have to tie in, you know, all of the numbers, all the analytics, you know, with the emotional aspect. Because even when we started talking about those skills that are required, they’re human based and we’re all human. When we think about where everybody commits, where everybody, you know, engages, where everybody moves in concert with one another. And I have this discussion a lot about the head and the feet not moving in concert. Because people do certain things at the very high level and they’re unable to connect with their feet. And so they’re going in all kinds of different directions.

Charles Conn: 11:57 I love that description. One way thinking about it is humans are naturally resistant to change. And whenever we’re solving problems, we’re saying you should do something different. How do you connect people’s brains to their feet in a way that’s compelling? That’s storytelling. Evidence-based.

Jim Rembach: 12:15 Absolutely. And, and I think for me, we, one of the things that we have to absolutely address and all of that and to connect those two is that there’s a significant amount of vulnerability and change. Something really we can say that I think, well you said it so I’m gonna actually challenge you on it. Um, I think it’s too easy for us to say people are resistant to change. Well, if that was the case, we wouldn’t be driving some of the motor vehicles that we have driven where we wouldn’t be using smart devices. We wouldn’t. So people do want change. It’s how we can actually, for me, you also use this kind of like decompile yeah, the actual change actions and activities so that we can do a better job of solving for and making decisions and taking actions.

Charles Conn: 12:57 I liked that and I think that’s important to say, which is when you say to someone you need to change your whole life, they are going to be resistant to change. But if instead I give you a step by step solution where I say, first do this, then do that, then do this, and you’ll get a better result than today. That’s problem solving. That’s actionable. Right? And what we need for modern teams in the workplace today is make it actionable. Don’t just say it’s all wrong. Give me a plan. And that’s what this book’s about.

Jim Rembach: 13:29 Absolutely. So I mean for me, I see a whole lot of, as you go through some of these tools, what I would refer to as chunking, you’re chunking things. Exactly. That. It’s easier to be able to consume them.

Charles Conn: 13:40 Exactly. We call it buckets. An exam. It’s exactly that. How do we separate out things into buckets so that we can begin to see the structure of the problem and begin to see the solutions and begin to be able to tell that story in a way that causes organizations to change.

Jim Rembach: 13:55 And I think that’s the only way that any of us can wrap our heads around, you know, how to make our way through the maze.

Charles Conn: 14:01 Exactly. Exactly.

Jim Rembach: 14:02 Okay. So that leaves us to talking about these seven critical steps. And I love the system, by the way. I mean for me, I start seeing a whole lot of applications that go well beyond the workplace, that’s for sure. And then you even kind of approached this. So to me it’s, it’s really having this be top of mind whenever we approach just about any conversation. Exactly. It’d be their direct report or a colleague or you know, someone who we’re reporting to. But if you can walk through these seven steps and kind of explain two things, first of all, what it is of course, and then how, how it fits and then maybe level of importance.

Charles Conn: 14:40 Yeah. So, as I mentioned earlier when we were talking about places people fall down, the first place we start and spend more time than sometimes feels comfortable is actually stating the, and as you know from reading the book, we even use a little worksheet and that worksheet says, can you state in one sentence what the problem is? But then who are the decision makers? All the decision makers, what are the barriers in their thinking or boundaries which they wouldn’t like you to cross? How quickly do they need a decision? How precise does their answer need to be? And that helps us understand what’s the scope for problem solving. The more open problems are the more creative we can be. But lots of times decision makers need us, need us to be quite constrained. The second step, and I think you know, you, you asked for level of importance.

Charles Conn: 15:30 This is the most important one for me, which is how do we desegregate the problem? Even big and difficult problems sometimes called wicked problems into their constituent parts. So we can see the structure and begin to determine where the solution lies. I like to use logic trees. That’s what works for me and different types of logic trees, the heel, different types of solutions and um, the third step which is when you take that logic tree and you can begin to ask the question which branches on the logic tree are more important and which ones are less important, which ones can I change and what ones can I not change? So I often use a little two by two matrix. How big is it and can I change it or not? Obviously we want to work on the levers that are big that we can change.

Charles Conn: 16:19 That’s where your problem solving should focus. I often call that the critical path. The fourth step is once I’ve got a prioritized set of the elements of the problem, then I build a little work plan and work plan sound boring but they’re not. I like to have little punchy work plans, little chunky work plans to use your term where I plan just a few days out and where I know exactly what I’m trying to work on and I know what my end products would look like. People often use Microsoft project or crazy things to do these big long work plans. We all remember earlier in our career where you do the three month work plan, never works, never works. Keep your work plans. Focus less than two weeks in length and where you know exactly what the end product is, not just what the analysis is that helps you work better with your teams and avoid disappointment.

Charles Conn: 17:11 Hey Larry, I thought you were going to do that X by Y, right? When you have good little chunky work plans and Gantt charts to keep you on track for the longer period, you’ll produce great results. Then the next step for us is how to do the analytic work, how to do the analysis. Many people, especially clever people jump right to the analysis. If you’ve set yourself well up with those first four steps, your analysis is much more likely to be focused and use appropriate tools rather than just the fancy tools and people you know, they love to run off with their linear regression programs or nowadays with their machine learning algorithms without really thinking of the structure of the problem. First, and they often miss the Mark in their problem solving by picking the wrong analytic tools and then as you were just saying a moment ago, the last two steps are how do I synthesize that analytic work and then structure it using and we use journalists tools, that inverted pyramid that journalists use to structure those analytic steps into a synthesis that tells a story, why should I change?

Charles Conn: 18:19 And again, the cleverest people are often the worst at these last two steps. How do I tell everybody else the cool things that I discovered in a way that compels action? Sometimes you have to be sneaky if people don’t want to hear what the answer is, where you unveil the answer like a dance of seven veils. Do we do we agree this problem is important? Yes. Here’s the evidence. Okay, yes, let’s move onto the next section and you move people down until they have to accept your conclusions. Other times it’s best to lead with the answer. You should change because of this, this and this. The structure of your problem solving, storytelling depends on your audience. Those are the seven steps, neat and tidy based in the scientific method, based in engineering decision making and based in the same kind of design thinking that’s used in product design today.

Jim Rembach: 19:13 Well, and as you’re talking, I started thinking about really that last step where you see, you know, where, where you had mentioned a lot of people struggle with and oftentimes I will meant is I also start thinking about, you know, the, the impact, because I had this discussion not even 30 minutes ago with somebody about the watering down of messaging. Yeah. And that what happens is when you send something around that has an impact that you know, you have, have created, when you start running it by other people, they start DC making it really neutral. Yeah. And so therefore the impact that you are trying to go for, it just actually loses that ability. But people don’t engage. They’re like, Oh yeah, whatever. It’s a nice to know. So how do you prevent people from actually, you know, going down that path and watering down their message? Because the fact is, is if you’re asking people to change, it has to be a polar impact. I need people to have strong emotion. And because like you said, it’s a fast paced world. We have a lot of things competing against us. And you know what, if you don’t grab me and shake me, I’m not going to do anything.

Charles Conn: 20:25 Yeah. Well, and that’s where we use these structures and particularly that inverted pyramid that journalists use where we use logical structures to our arguments that say you should change because of this. And we provide evidence because of this and we provide the evidence and because of this and we provide the evidence that makes it very difficult to water down or mealy mouth, um, the messages that come out of your problem solving and makes it more compelling for people to actually choose a path and change than just keeping the business going as, as whatever your business is as it was before. Um, we use a structure where each statement bold statements, right, are supported by the evidence in a way that makes it really clear to the decision maker why they need to change.

Jim Rembach: 21:11 Well, and I think even, um, you know, you had mentioned something about the uh, you know, the, the saving and the impact of the world and that, you know, the younger generation, unfortunately he’s inheriting a few things that yes, they’re going to have to do that. Otherwise extinction is going to be a threat. Well, that’s where we are right now with a lot of organizations.

Charles Conn: 21:31 Sure. Is the threat part of the beauty of this, what you’re saying? I mean, I agree with it so strongly. There’s so much debate in the public square where people are just speaking past each other and we actually know a lot about what the right answers are to tackle things like homelessness or climate change or problems with addiction. But we often speak past each other rather than using these logical structures to our arguments. Oftentimes I find when we follow a seven steps approach like this, even people who thought they would disagree ahead of time can actually come to common ground. Right. And you see this all the time, should we have, should it, should marijuana be illegal or should the death penalty exists? Those sound like impossible problems that only would rely on values based decisions. I bet if you and I sat down together when we wrote out some criteria for solving those problems, we could find more common ground than you’d think

Jim Rembach: 22:28 and I’m sure we would and all. But that, I think that also goes back to those skills that we’re talking about is that we need more and more people to improve their competencies and skills with being able to do that in a collaborative type of work.

Charles Conn: 22:42 Yeah, exactly. State the problem carefully dis-aggregate the problem, agree on what the criteria are for the solution of the problem. And I bet we’re halfway to a common solution.

Jim Rembach: 22:52 Well, when I start thinking about everything that we’ve talked about in association with problem solving and even some of those, you know, technologies you say as part of your passion that you’re getting exposed to. I mean there’s a whole lot of emotion that gets wrapped up into that and one of the things that we look at on the show in order to help give us focus drive in that area, are quotes. Yeah. is there a quote or two that you like that you can share?

Charles Conn: 23:15 You know, one of the ones that I really love was a quote by the, the Nobel prize winner, amazing Nobel prize winner, Herb Simon. I don’t know if you remember her assignment, what he said. I just think it’s sort of a, a beautiful comment, which is he said, problem solving is making the is is, is helping people visualize the solution. And I just, I thought that was just a beautiful, so I’m going to say the actual quote, but you get the sense of it. He said solving a problem simply means representing it so as to make the solution transparent. I think that’s amazing. It’s just one sentence. Makes the solution transparent and that’s what allows everybody to see it. And to compel action. A Nobel prize winner in economics and decision theory. And how do you show problems in a way where the solution becomes visual?

Jim Rembach: 24:10 Well, I would dare to say when we start talking about, you know, the skills that are part of this book, um, that you had to go down a couple of different paths in order to get to where you are now. And we talk about getting over the humps. There are things that we learned and that we should share with others so that hopefully they don’t repeat them. Yeah. But is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

Charles Conn: 24:31 Boy, have I ever got many, many, many of those kinds of things? Um, and uh, you know, when I was, um, very, at the very beginning of my career as a management consultant starting right out at the beginning, feeling like I didn’t know anything. Um, I was helping this uh, hardware home center company that’s actually described in the book. And I had no idea how to begin to take apart a problem as big as, you know, a business that employed six or 10,000 people. And uh, I used a really simple tool, you know, we’re trying w and I was taught this tool by my, my, my older colleagues that helped take a part of business. It’s called a profit lever tree or return on net assets tree. That allowed me to see what the structure of this business was and both where the strengths were and were the negatives for.

Charles Conn: 25:18 And it was like being in the dark and then someone turning on the light and it was, you know, it was a panic situation where a simple bit of logic helped clarify everything about a business that I was supposed to be adding value to. And I’ve used that same structure, which is w which we talk about in the book and which you saw like return on assets tree two to take apart almost any kind of business. One of my friends right now, I was running a business that makes truck accessories and he came to me one day and he said, Charles, I’m on cotton. A quandary. Our costs have drifted up in these couple of places and I’m, I’m afraid to raise prices. Should I raise prices. So he was caught in your same kind of hump and we built a little lever, rebuilt a little profit lever tree for his business. And we calculated that if, if sales dropped by less than 4%, he could raise his prices by 7% and still be ahead. And he had gave him the confidence when he was caught in a bind to make it a complex decision in his business. It turns out they raised prices 7% and volumes continued going up at 50% a year. But so we use just that little same tree that I use right at the beginning of my career to help answer a really difficult problem about as business.

Jim Rembach: 26:34 So when I started thinking about, you know, that learning, um, and you going through that. So help me understand when you start talking about approaching the problem, I mean, was it something that you were just given the tools right then and there and then therefore you used it or were you searching for the solution and then had the opportunity to be guided by somebody who is a senior level leader?

Charles Conn: 26:55 Yeah, like most real problem solving. At first it seemed really muddled and uh, you know, I knew we had a problem, which is how do you help this client make their business work better? But I didn’t have a precise idea about how to do that and I had no idea about the tools. And what I know now, after all these years of experience is every single time I find myself on that solution, I start with a great problem statement. And I do my best with my tools at that moment to take apart the problem using a logic tree. Oftentimes the first time I do it, it’s wrong. Almost always. In fact, I usually start with a whiteboard. Probably you do too. And I write little yellow sticky notes about what I know. And a lot of times there’s not a whole lot on the board at the beginning, but I start to orient those on the board in the shape, in the shape of a logic tree, and that I can start to fill in gaps where there’s something that I need to know and I need to do a bit more research before I can build that tree out.

Charles Conn: 27:50 Usually I’d try three or different three or four different structures before the solution starts to drop out in front of me. And I’d be, what I’ve just found over time is you can start with almost nothing and in the space of a few hours have enough of a high quality rough cut that you can do the next level of analysis that makes you ask better questions. You’ll remember from the book when I first was asked by Gordon Moore, can you help save salmon? You know, wild salmon. How would you begin to think about a problem as complex as that? Right? And what I discovered is I just sat down with a team of people who are, you know, just people who knew about biology and they said, well, probably has something to do with the environment that salmon live in, what salmon EA and how people, you know, whether people catch salmon in ways that help their populations or hurt their populations. That’s the crudest tree of all you could say for how you’d affect salmon. But starting with that crew tree, it was only days later that we began to become much more sophisticated. And so I always say, don’t get it right. Just get started. And I like the idea of what we’ve talked about in the book is a one day answer, right? Almost any problem you and I could sit down and in one day we could come up with a pretty good answer starting with that problem statement, working toward this, this aggregation and then prioritization.

Jim Rembach: 29:10 So what I see you saying is that all of us, you know, have a system in order to go about problem solving. And the fact is, is that the majority of us don’t use a structured, repeatable and scalable method to be able to do that. We, we fall on our defaults. Yup. So if I have thinking through that, you know, you’ve had this opportunities, experiences, you have these 30 case studies, you worked with a lot of different clients is when I think about the default system that you most commonly see, what does that the fault system? Boy,

Charles Conn: 29:39 you are right onto the right thing, Jim, because this is where our human cognitive biases trip us up, right? Whenever we’re falling back on D, you may remember ganja economists’ book thinking fast and slow. And what he shows us is that type one system that humans have, which is that fallback default system is usually incredibly, uh, fraught with bias. The most common biases are availability bias. I think I’ve seen this problem before. So you apply the wrong solution because it happens to be right available to you or sunk cost bias. This is another one of our most human things. I’ve already spent money on that I better keep doing it. Right? Which is, you know, economists tell us it’s just wrong. That money’s sunk. You should make each decision, each incremental decision as, as a brand new decision. Right. And then I described earlier, one of the other kinds of biases that are really common with humans is look to the most senior person, look to the boss. And the bosses usually are less likely to have a fresh answer to our problem than some bright young thing. And what I find is default mode puts you in one of those three or four biases almost guaranteed.

Jim Rembach: 30:47 Well, when I started thinking about this work that you’re doing and even, you know, working with the, uh, the fund, uh, gosh, I started thinking about a lot of different competing and compelling, uh, goals. Um, yeah. When I start thinking about one of them and your most important, what is,

Charles Conn: 31:05 Yeah. So in what I’m currently doing right now, our big goal is how do we change the world and make it better. And what we know is, in the science-based world that we’re in here at Oxford university, the only way we can move the dial on how to make the world better is to build great companies one by one based on great science. And so for me at the moment, my goal is really simple. How do I take these amazing scientific discoveries in medicine and materials and physics and engineering and make great companies? And so it’s, in a way, it’s quite simple. Right now I can make the world better by building great science-based companies. And that’s what I think about everyday when I wake up.

Jim Rembach: 31:48 And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

Jim Rembach: 31:55 An Even Better Place to Work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and Alicia [inaudible], everyone using this award, winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work. Visit www.beyondmorale.com/better.

Jim Rembach: 32:14 Alright, here we go. Fast Leader Legion. It’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay Charles, the Hump Day Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Charles Conn, are you ready to hoedown?

Charles Conn: 32:36 I’m sure hope so.

Jim Rembach: 32:37 Alright, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Charles Conn: 32:43 I think our, our, um, the, the biggest thing that holds us back is our, our negative images of self. And I’ll leave it right there.

Jim Rembach: 32:53 What is the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?

Charles Conn: 32:58 Uh, the best leadership I advice, advice I’ve ever received. I can answer in one word. Listen.

Jim Rembach: 33:04 What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Charles Conn: 33:08 I wake up really early in the morning every day and I got time to myself before I interact with anybody else getting squared away.

Jim Rembach: 33:16 What do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Charles Conn: 33:20 I dis-aggregate every problem using logic. Trees helps other people see the answer too.

Jim Rembach: 33:26 And what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion and it could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to Bulletproof problem solving on your show notes page as well.

Charles Conn: 33:35 I think the book that were written by Richard Dawkins called the Selfish Gene helped me understand humans better than any other book. My top pick.

Jim Rembach: 33:44 Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that in other bonus information from today’s show or go on a fast leader.net/charlesconn. Okay, Charles, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25, you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Charles Conn: 34:07 Uh, that’s an easy one. I think I would, if I could go back to age 25 I would be entirely present as opposed to being always thinking about the future. And I think at age 58 I’ve learned how to be in the minute. I wish I’d had boys in a minute at 25.

Jim Rembach: 34:24 Charles, I had a great time chatting with you today, but can you please share at the fast leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Charles Conn: 34:29 Sure. Um, I’m easy to find it. www.Bulletproofproblemsolving.com and I’d love to engage with the readers.

Jim Rembach: 34:38 Charles Conn, thank you for sharing her knowledge and wisdom and the fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

 

 

The post 246: Charles Conn: You can easily take apart almost any problem appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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Charles Conn Show Notes Page Charles Conn used a really simple tool to solve the problems for a company with thousands of employees. It was this humble beginning which now finds Charles on a quest to solve the problems of the world. Charles Conn used a really simple tool to solve the problems for a company with thousands of employees. It was this humble beginning which now finds Charles on a quest to solve the problems of the world.
Charles Conn was born in Phoenix Arizona to half Canadian, half American parents, more naturally based in Massachusetts where his dad had done his college education at MIT, and to which they returned when Charles was only 6 months old.
Charles was raised in Cambridge and Concord and a little town up on the New Hampshire border called Dunstable. Charles has a brother born 2 years after him. His parents divorced at 10, after which Charles’s mother went to art school and married her professor…which ensured a strange mix of engineering problem solving and artistic creativity as fundamental influences on his young life.
With an MIT engineer as a father and art professor mother and step father, Charles had dueling influences of analytic problem solving and more creative approaches as a backdrop to learning. This eventually led to a career as a partner of McKinsey, the consulting firm, but always with a focus on creative problem solving.
Charles then caught the internet bug early and moved like some erstwhile Beverley Hillbilly from Sydney to Los Angeles to lead a tech startup, Ticketmaster-Citysearch, that eventually successfully IPO’ed.  After that he returned to an early love of biology working with Intel-founder Gordon Moore in starting his new foundation dedicated to science-based conservation, where he learned that the problem solving technologies he helped develop at McKinsey scaled to environment level problems.
After this he led a turnaround at the Rhodes Trust in Oxford (returning him to his graduate school roots), where he developed a novel approach to leadership development for Rhodes Scholars and raised funds to right the Trust financially. While at the Rhodes Trust he and his former McKinsey colleague Rob McLean finally put pen to paper and wrote up their lives’ work, Bulletproof Problem Solving: The One Skill that Changes Everything.
And finally, Charles is now applying his problem-solving models to deep science, working as CEO of Oxford Sciences Innovation, the £600m venture firm founded in partnership with Oxford to develop its advanced technology ideas.
Charles is most proud to have helped develop the problem solving and leadership capabilities of hundreds of incredibly talented young people across many spheres who will no doubt do a better job than his generation at saving the planet.
Charles lives in lots of places: His day job has him based in Oxford England, but he commutes to Stockholm part of the year where his partner Camilla Borg lives. He keeps a foot hold in Sun Valley Idaho, where he owns a ranch, and Los Angeles. Charles’s partner is Camilla Borg, a Swede with skills in design and marketing. He has three grown children from a previous marriage.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to Charles Conn, CEO of @OSI_Updates to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“The great lesson of problem solving is, you can use a single technique for taking apart almost any kind of problem.” –