Fast Leader Show Podcast https://www.fastleader.net Stories to get over the leadership hump Wed, 22 Jan 2020 20:37:51 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.3.2 Stories to get over the leadership hump Fast Leader Show Podcast Stories to get over the leadership hump Fast Leader Show Podcast https://www.fastleader.net/wp-content/uploads/fast-leader-podcast-1400.jpg https://www.fastleader.net 261: Stan Silverman: Be different through your power skills https://www.fastleader.net/stansilverman/ Wed, 22 Jan 2020 07:55:03 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=16319 https://www.fastleader.net/stansilverman/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/stansilverman/feed/ 0 <p>Stan Silverman Show Notes Page Stan Silverman learned so much working for his tyrant, more so had he not worked for him. Luckily for others, Stan persevered this experience. Eventually, he was promoted above his tyrant, and within three weeks of his promotion, he had cause and terminated him. Stan Silverman grew up in the [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/stansilverman/">261: Stan Silverman: Be different through your power skills</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Stan Silverman Show Notes Page

Stan Silverman learned so much working for his tyrant, more so had he not worked for him. Luckily for others, Stan persevered this experience. Eventually, he was promoted above his tyrant, and within three weeks of his promotion, he had cause and terminated him.

Stan Silverman grew up in the northeast section of Philadelphia. His dad was an entrepreneur, running a small electrical supply business, providing lighting and electrical products to industrial and commercial customers. His mom served as the bookkeeper for the company. The dinner table conversation always revolved around business issues and the importance of customer service.

His parents stressed the importance of education, hard work, honesty, ethics, and integrity, and Stan states that these traits formed the basis of his value system. It is one of the reasons why he is a strong advocate for the right tone at the top and organizational culture.

Stan was always mechanically inclined. He and his younger brother Stuart used odds and ends of lumber stored in their garage to build the frame of a go-cart and attached the wheels of an old baby stroller. They raced their friends down a steeply sloped street a block from their house.

There were no parents involved to help them build these go-carts. When they found they didn’t have the fastest cart, they figured out why, made modifications, and hoped that races the next day would yield a better result.

As a young teenager, an inquisitive mind led Stan to make firecrackers. Leery about being in close proximity when setting them off, this future engineer used a match head buried in the firecracker and 25 feet of train wire from his Lionel train transformer to set them off remotely. Stan says that you can’t do that today without a visit from the local police and Homeland Security. He says some freedom has been taken away from kids to explore and be kids.

Stan attended Drexel University where he earned a BS degree in chemical engineering and an MBA. After working two years at Atlantic Richfield, he joined PQ Corporation as a chemical process engineer, where he was promoted up through 11 jobs, reaching the position of CEO.

As the author of Be Different! The Key to Business and Career Success, Stan entered his fourth career after coming up the ranks of PQ Corporation, serving as a director on public, private, private equity and nonprofit boards and writing nationally syndicated columns on leadership for the Philadelphia Business Journal.

He writes about his experiences and observations as a way of giving back to those who went before him and who have helped him be successful, and to make a difference in the lives of others who follow. For him, helping others be successful is one of the most satisfying things anyone can do. He writes to share advice with his two sons and daughters-in-law as well as his four grandchildren. He writes to help businesses thrive and provide guidance to individuals, so they become more effective leaders, entrepreneurs, and board members. This is his legacy.

Stan resides in Dresher, PA, with his wife Jackie, who has been his support over the years, allowing him to advance throughout his career. He is forever grateful to her.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @stansilverman to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“You’re always on a journey to try to be the best.” – Click to Tweet

“A CEO should never say their company is great.” – Click to Tweet

“You may achieve today, but you get up tomorrow, and you have another thing to go.” – Click to Tweet

“Leadership is the most important skill that anybody in an organization can have.” – Click to Tweet

“Power skills are just as important as technical skills for success.” – Click to Tweet

“When it affects the reputation of the company, if the board is not there, they’re not doing their job.” – Click to Tweet

“As a board member, my job is to protect the people from tyrants and to protect the company reputation.” – Click to Tweet

“You have to take advantage of every opportunity that comes your way that you want to take advantage of.” – Click to Tweet

“You have to create your own opportunities; you just can’t sit around and wait for them to come to you.” – Click to Tweet

“Never tell your boss it can’t be done, but give them alternatives on how you might approach it.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s a strength to ask for advice and opinion.” – Click to Tweet

“We don’t grow by ourselves; we grow because people help us.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Stan Silverman learned so much working for his tyrant, more so had he not worked for him. Luckily for others, Stan persevered this experience. Eventually, he was promoted above his tyrant, and within three weeks of his promotion, he had cause and terminated him.

Advice for others

Be humble as a leader and understand that you get results through other people.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Nothing

Best Leadership Advice

Lead like you’d like to be led.

Secret to Success

I relate to people really well. I get to know them.

Best tools in business or life

My commitment to ethics and integrity and my distain for anyone that’s not ethical or doesn’t have integrity.

Recommended Reading

Be Different!: The Key to Business and Career Success (ISSN)

Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t

Contacting Stan Silverman

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stansilverman/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/stansilverman

Website: http://silvermanleadership.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

Jim Rembach:                  00:00

Okay. Fast leader Legion Tam, excited because we have somebody with such a wealth of experience and passion that you know, he was also sharing it at multiple levels

Jim Rembach:                  00:10

and hopefully he’ll be a great role model for you, which is a very important point that he talks about. Stan Silverman grew up in the Northeast section of Philadelphia. His dad was an entrepreneur running a small electrical supply business providing lighting and electrical products to industrial and commercial customers. His mom served as the bookkeeper for the company and at the dinner table. Conversation always revolved around business issues and the importance of customer service. His parents stressed the importance of education, hard work, honesty, ethics and integrity. And Stan States these as traits that has formed the basis of his value system. It’s one of the reasons why he is a strong advocate for the right tone at the top of and part of the organizational culture. Stan was always mechanically inclined. He and his younger brother, Stewart used the odds and ends of lumber stored in their garage to build a frame of a go-kart in a test, the wheels of an old baby stroller.

Jim Rembach:                  01:08

And they race their friends down a steep slope, a block from their house. As a young teenager and inquisitive, Stan actually made firecrackers. He was leery about being close to close proximity and so when he sent them off, this future engineer used a match head buried in the firecracker and 25 feet of train wire from his lion L train transformer to set them off remotely. Stan says, you can do that today without a visit from the local police and Homeland security. He says some freedom has been taken away from kids to explore and just be kids. Stan attended Drexel university where he earned a BS degree in chemical engineering and an MBA. After working two years at Atlantic Richfield, he joined PQ corporation as a chemical process engineer where he was promoted up through 11 jobs reaching the position of CEO as author of be different the key to business and career success.

Jim Rembach:                  02:07

Stan entered his fourth career after coming up the ranks of PQ corporation, serving as a director on public private private equity and nonprofit boards and writing nationally syndicated columns on leadership for the Philadelphia business journal. He writes about his experience and observations as a way of giving back to those who went before him and who have helped him be successful and to make a difference in the lives of others who follow. He writes to share advice with his two sons and daughter, daughter and daughters-in-law, as well as his four grandchildren. He writes to help businesses thrive and provide guidance to individuals so they can become more effective leaders, entrepreneurs, and board members. Stan resides in Dresher, Pennsylvania with his wife, Jackie, who has been his support over the years, allowing him to advance throughout his career. He is forever grateful to her. Stan Silverman, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Stan Silverman:               03:02

Yeah. Thank you, Jim for that great introduction and it’s just a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you for inviting me.

Jim Rembach:                  03:08

Oh man. I’m honored that you’re here and we’ve already had some really good discussion that I hope we can bring onto this interview, but I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but continue to, can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Stan Silverman:               03:20

My current passion is helping others be successful. I coach and counsel a lot of people in mid career positions. They want to know how they can get promoted to the next job. Uh, I give them advice on that. I talk to a lot of college seniors, uh, going out looking for the first jobs. They want to know if the resume is up to snuff. I also, I was asking them about the resume, what’s different in this resume that’s different than the other 500 resumes that I’ll go into Comcast for that one finance job, why are you different? And they kind of look at me and say, well, I guess I should be different. And I help them develop from their, uh, from their time in college. Why they’re different from other people. I also tell them the kind of issues they would have raised during interviews, which no other college kid will raise when they’re interviewing, such as being committed to continuous improvement, being committed to, um, creating a great customer experience for their, for their clients or customers and so forth. So I help people be successful. And that’s my passion today.

Jim Rembach:                  04:21

Well, I think you bring up a really interesting point because a lot of times us as individuals and if you think about that whole self assessment piece, we may perceive, you know, that we are different. However, we really may be a little bit, you know, convoluted, um, maybe not a little, not, not as focused as we need to be. Um, not really understanding, you know, what different really means. So if you can give us a good background and understanding of what different really is.

Stan Silverman:               04:48

Well, um, so let’s look at it in the context of the business. Um, I’ve worked with a lot of people. I’ve seen a lot of leaders in my time, some very, very good leaders and leaders that aren’t so good. And those leaders that are very successful over a long period of time in a sustainable manner and build great businesses are different in this way. They have great tone at the top,

Jim Rembach:                  05:12

great culture.

Stan Silverman:               05:13

They hire great people. Uh, they have great values, they have a very good value system, and they hold their people accountable to those values. And there are no shortcuts. There are no shortcuts. Uh, you read a lot about companies. They get into trouble because of shortcuts they take and they lose a huge amount of reputation. Uh, there’s huge reputational risk and what they do or they don’t do. And uh, being different in the business sense is you really want to run a great company with great tone and you know what? Your employees will go home and go to sleep at night and they’ll wake up the next morning and want to come in and, and go to work because it’s just a great place to work.

Jim Rembach:                  05:51

You know, as you’re saying that and you’re talking about many of those things, and maybe I’m a little bit biased because I’m in it and I do this podcast and I talk about it a lot, but you know, to me it would seem like it at least being aspirational and trying to obtain all of those things that you talk about, you know, would be the norm. But you’re saying that is the exception.

Stan Silverman:               06:12

Uh, in my experience, I have, unfortunately I have to say yes. Uh, you know, you’re always on a journey. You’re always on a journey to be better. And, uh, I used to tell my people as, as when I was CEO of my company, uh, I would ask him, um, are we the best in the world at what we do? And of course, you’re never going to be the best. Only one person can beat the best CEO. And you’re always one of the journey to try to be the best and that drives the business forward. And, um, uh, if you, if you don’t do that, uh, are you going to try to be the most mediocre in the world? At what you do or you’re not even going to think about it and you’re basically a flounder. Um, you hear many CEOs say, why my company is great.

Stan Silverman:               06:54

A senior should never ever say their company is great. That’s for third parties to say, when somebody says you’re great, your answer is, well, we’re okay here. We’re doing really well here. We have a long way to go here. We’re on a journey to become great because once you tell your employees you’re great, there’s no place to go, and there’s no, you plateau where you go down. And so you never say, I’ve never ever said we’re great. I don’t. Our employees understand that they’re understand that we were on a journey. We were in a journey to help our customers be successful. That’s our role in life. And when you become, when you are, when you’re on that journey, you move towards becoming the preferred provider of product or service in your marketplace. So people want to buy from you and not your competitors. You want to help your customers be successful, give them a great customer experience.

Jim Rembach:                  07:45

You know, as you’re saying that I started thinking about some confusion that may take place because I mean I’ve learned on it, you know, I just had not happened, didn’t happen, but a few years ago, you know, I learned that there is a difference between being achievement focused and competitive focus and the, and the fact is, is what you described from my perspective is more of an achievement focused, meaning that winning, you know, it really isn’t our goal, what our goal is to continually focus on trying to be the best that’s that’s achievement based where competitive based is, Hey, you know, we’re the best, we’re done our, Hey we beat them in this market or Hey we need to beat them. And then it becomes more of a toxic, potentially toxic and a, an eroding, uh, element that could be in your culture.

Stan Silverman:               08:33

Yeah. Actually I’m glad you brought that point up because you’re absolutely correct. You’re never done. You are never ever done. And so you may achieve today, you get up tomorrow and you got another thing to go. You have another goal to, to hit. You need to keep on moving forward. And um, you know, there, there are competitors that compete because they, the customer what they want and they satisfy customer needs and they give a great customer experience. And there are other people that compete on, on other things where we say, well, we’ll cut the price even though we don’t give you what you want. Why our product? Because it’s the cheapest. That’s no way to compete. That creates price Wars. You want to do that. You never want to compete on price. You want to compete on quality and service and other things. You, you give the, the, the client or the customer that your competitors can’t give. And that’s how you win in the long term. But winning is only today and tomorrow you have another goal to hit.

Jim Rembach:                  09:33

Okay. So that brings me to the book and you just start talking about, uh, really the, the, the four parts in order to be able to be different than an organization as well as individuals, teens, you know, has to really focus in on, in order for that to occur. And in the book, I mean, to me it’s just loaded with a lot of information. You’ve made very, very short chapters within these four parts. And these four parts are on the importance of leadership, building a competitive advantage, advancing career, your career. Uh, and the last one is for me is about role models and role modeling. And, and so when they start looking at these four, how did you really come up with those four?

Stan Silverman:               10:17

Um, that took some time actually, that took some time. And so I had all of this I wanted to put down on paper, but I had to organize it properly so that it made sense for the reader. And, um, I eventually came up with these four categories, which I thought would be the most meaningful for somebody that wanted to learn how to do what I was teaching, which is to be different. Um, and it, it, it fit together. And I finally said, well, I want, I, I originally had five sections and it was too many. So I condensed it into four and it just felt right. And so the four that you mentioned is what I, what I came out with.

Jim Rembach:                  10:53

Well, and we talk about, um, you know, really the journey piece. You talk about even, you know, constructing this in a way that people can actually leverage it. You know, it took a while, but that, that journey and when you start thinking about your career and where you are now and the business landscape and you know, the side of velocity you want to call it as such, you know, if you were to talk about the path that you had have taken and the experience that you’d had, how different different would it be somebody who was actually more on the earlier and starting out, uh, stage of their journey today? Well, how would it be different?

Stan Silverman:               11:33

Um, I was very, well, I’m, my journey is not going to be duplicated, uh, anymore. So I spent 30 plus years with the same company through 11 jobs. That doesn’t happen today and I wouldn’t recommend it. I would not recommend it. Um, the only reason I stay with PQ corporation is I kicked it up getting promoted and they kept giving me more money and more responsibility and they allowed me the freedom to try a lot of things, a lot of new things. And so, um, you know, I wasn’t wanting to sit at my desk and just do it the same way all the time. I always tried new things. Um, I can remember, uh, I really scary time when we found that we had to recall a product because it had, uh, iron filings in it from the manufacturing process. And I didn’t have the authorities to business management order, this kind of large recall.

Stan Silverman:               12:22

And my boss and the CEO were traveling in Europe and it was before cell phones and before text messaging. And every day that we waited to recall the product, the cost of recall would go up exponentially and it would really go up if our product finally made it into a customer’s product. And so I would have to recall, and my people are saying, you’re going to be celebrated or terminated. I said, well, let’s hope it’s the first. I wanted to recall these guys got back and I told them what I did and I got celebrated. They said, you did the right thing, but I learned something very interesting. You always want to hire people with good common sense and critical judgments because you want those people to make decisions that are against policy when it’s in the best interest of the company to do so. It doesn’t happen often, but you have to hire people that know when to do that.

Stan Silverman:               13:12

And so from that point forward in my career, I always hired people that I thought had good comments, ends and critical judgment, and I empowered them to break the rules when they thought it was necessary to be in the best interest of the company. And so I would hope moving forward that people starting out in your careers will learn that. And I hope they work for bosses that will permit them to do that because if they don’t, those companies want to get into trouble. You’re hiring people for what they know for what they know. And I think it was Steve jobs that says we don’t know how to hire smart people to tell them what to do, no harm, so that they can tell us what to do. So it’s a similar thing and I hope people get a chance to work for those kind of companies and those kinds of bosses.

Stan Silverman:               13:57

Well, and speaking of those types of bosses and those types of cultures, I think you have a passion for no tyrants because you shared a story with me that I think everybody needs to hear. Yeah. So, um, I was, I was, uh, probably a high, I was higher level of middle manager and I worked for this tyrant who basically beat the crap out of everybody in his organization. Um, he would, uh, micromanage everything, not give any, uh, allowance for making decisions. Everything had to run through him. He would just go off on people. And I finally learned how to deal with him. I was almost ready to leave the company. Had I left the company, the company would have been deprived of a future CEO for the company, but I learned how to deal with him. I was tough enough, but we lost a lot of great people.

Stan Silverman:               14:43

So I get promoted to be president of our Canadian company in Canada. So now I’m at his level and for three I do that job and I get promoted again to come back and I’m now, um, global president of industrial chemicals and he’s reporting to me. Within three weeks of me being back, he went off on somebody and I fired him. I fired him. He was shocked. And, uh, the folks in that group celebrated for days, for days. I brought in the very best leader within our company. I didn’t go outside me cause I didn’t, I couldn’t take the chance. I brought in the very best leader that I knew to take that role and it took six months for him to get those folks to start making decisions, to get and get the, the division growing again. And so that was such an impressed, that was such an important point in my career from an experience point of view.

Stan Silverman:               15:34

Um, I still remember it as what was yesterday. And because of that, when I serve, I’ve served on 14 boards, three public companies, private, private equity, you name it. I sit on the committee of every board because I want to hear what comes in on a hotline in a free port, comes in on a hotline that there is a tyrant in the organization. And I want to know what the CEO’s going to do about it because I feel because of my experience, my unique experience getting to the position I’m in, I want to know what the CEO’s going to do to protect his people. And uh, maybe they can change that person or they can, if they can’t change him, he’s out. He’s gone. I’d farm in a microsecond and a microsecond. I don’t care how good his performances, because this is individual performance. The people below him work for me cause they don’t trust it. They don’t trust him. So he’s got to go or she’s got to go. And I’ve done that so many times. You can see how passionate I am about this.

Jim Rembach:                  16:28

Right. Well, and I think what you’re just saying right there is also that that is quite different because unfortunately, you know, people will say, well, it’s hard to find people, well they have a certain skill set that I can’t get rid of. Well, I mean, they make all these excuses are making a really tough decision and it’s, you’re talking about the whole strength of leadership and power of leadership. You know, that you’re not leading at that point.

Stan Silverman:               16:55

You’re absolutely right. No one is indispensable and let’s assume the person is doing a great job, but they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re really hurting the people below them because they’re just a crappy leader. You’ve got to move him out of that position. Uh, maybe you keep them, but they’re not leading any body. You put them with an individual contributor situation where they can continue to contribute, but they don’t, they’re not going to lead people because leadership is the most important skill that anybody in an organization can have if you can’t lead people, get them out of that position.

Jim Rembach:                  17:29

Well, and that kind of leads me into, um, part of the discussion that we had earlier that I think is really important for us to talk about. Because in, you know, the marketplace, you know, in the workplace and in society, and it’s getting to be a, a global scenario as far as the business is concerned, the issues associated with no engagement and a lack of leadership pipeline, all of the, you know, all of these things that we’re kind of talking about is such a problem. It leads us back into how we’re Marino really educating, you know, our current as well as our future generations to live in the type of world that we are today. So, you know, you sit on a lot of boards, you’re part of, you know, Drexel university’s chair or vice chairman of the university. So one of the criticisms that institutions educational institutions have is that they’re not developing the worker of today and definitely not the worker of tomorrow. They’re actually developing the worker that we needed 10 15 years ago. So where are you on and thinking on that?

Stan Silverman:               18:32

Uh, and I would agree with you. I have a lot of conversations, uh, with, uh, professors not only at Drexel but in other universities. Uh, also that we need to teach what I would call power skills to our students. Uh, the power skills or the skills about, uh, getting along with people, forming teams, using, uh, emotional intelligence and making decisions using good critical judgment, knowing when to, um, uh, to let somebody go because they’re not a good leader. And we need to teach these skills. We need to teach the skills of networking. I see it so many times. These young people, they’re on their phones all the time and they’ve lost the ability to talk to people. Well, not only have they lost the ability to talk to people, we also don’t teach them how to walk into a room where they’re a cocktail parties going on.

Stan Silverman:               19:25

A reception is going on and there’s maybe 10 or 15 groups of people talking. They need to know when to break in, when not to break in, how to break in, how to excuse themselves from the group to move on to the next group. Um, how to develop maybe two or three relationships that you can continue on. And I don’t mean giving out 5,000 business cards in an hour. You need to focus on who you might be able to help or they might be able to help you in the future. Develop those skills. We don’t teach those skills, you know, not only do we teach them, we don’t teach that they’re important, but they’re so, so, so important. And so, um, our, our universities need to teach this. One of the problems is that a lot of our professors have never really done this. They’ve come up through research and they teach, they’re great at technical skills, but they’re not great at soft skills or what I would call power skills. Power skills are just as important as technical skills for success. I’ve seen so many people with great technical skills, they have zero power skills and they don’t make it. They don’t make it.

Jim Rembach:                  20:29

You know what you’re talking about right there. They’ve actually done some studies on that and it’s technical skill and ability. When you start talking about that track level and getting to that middle management, it’s the technical skills that can get you to that level at a pretty, pretty good level. But unfortunately those skills

Stan Silverman:               20:48

have to switch in order for you to go up to that next level to what you’re talking about. Um, and so somebody who is at that most senior level, while the technical skill is very powerful for them cause they essentially know what the business does and how the business does it at. So, I mean it is, it does have value, but now they’ve moved from a situation where they’ve got to actually have the entire organization have a strong culture. But I have great leaders and you’re right, that is a totally different skillset. So how do we fix this? Well, um, I, you can fix it in the schools by letting people to be aware of it and to set up situations within the courses where they have to work within teams. And a lot of people are doing that. A lot of schools are doing that, um, where they have to deal with various personalities where they have to deal with clashes and personalities on their team and get people to work together.

Stan Silverman:               21:40

Um, but you really get this experience being out in the fields in your real life is where you really need to do it and you need to be aware that you need to build those skills and you need a lot of emotional intelligence. In fact, it’s emotional intelligence is more important than IQ when you get to that point. I Q is the entry level. In fact, it was a good, it’s in my book, there was a paper developed by a researcher, one of the universities where IQ will get you to a certain level. ECU will take you further up. So it’s, it’s the, it’s the price of getting in. IQ gets you w moves you up and you just need to continue to practice it. So I would recommend to college students, get on a lot of committees, a lot of extracurricular activities, lead units around lead groups around the school, get involved in athletics, become an athletic leader.

Stan Silverman:               22:32                   And you develop those skills there. So when you go out into the marketplace, you’ve gotten some basics in terms of the evolving those skills. You know, it’s really interesting that you say that because there was a report that came out or a study looking at Nobel prize winners, Nobel laureates. Uh, and uh, what they were saying is that those people who are the receivers and recipients of those awards or recognition, we’re not the smartest in their field. They had higher E Q and that’s what enabled them to get recognized and wins. Isn’t that an interesting, it’s an interesting, it means they were able to tap the works of others and build on the works of others. They were able to collaborate together, uh, and they were able to advance their, uh, their, their science or the technology in their, in their area of expertise. And actually the whole world is built upon that.

Stan Silverman:               23:23                   Most definitely. So when I start thinking about, you know, all of the, the, the case studies that you, and there’s just loaded in this book, you know, all of these particular case studies, I would have to say there’s kind of one for you that’s like, you know, that’s the one that kinda hits me the most. That’s the one I have the passion for the most. Which, which case study would that be? Well, it’s gotta be the Wells Fargo case study and closely following that as Volkswagen and probably after that, his third husband, let’s talk about Wells Fargo. Um, as most people know, because it’s been in the press, uh, Wells Fargo had a problem back around 2014, 15 where the people that worked in the bank branches, uh, were incentivized and actually pressured to, uh, open up accounts that clients did not need because that was part of the metric used to pay the, uh, the senior leadership of, of that group, big bonuses.

Stan Silverman:               24:18                   And they were encouraged to do unethical things that bothered people a lot. The people down at the lower level. Um, and in fact, it’s interesting they called the, they didn’t call their bank branches, bank branches. They called them stores. That’s what walls, I don’t want to bank at a store. I’m not buying anything. I want to bank where I’m going to get, get advice. I want to go to a bank branch. But they called them stores. So that kind of set up the culture. And um, when this, when this blew up and it became public, they were fine. Millions of dollars by the government for doing this. But that was only a drop in the bucket. As soon as it got out, uh, their reputation went down. They lost billions and billions and billions of dollars in business from cities and governments who didn’t want to do bond work with them. And for corporations, they didn’t trust them.

Stan Silverman:               25:08                   So they took their business, us, it probably costs them 40 to $50 billion, all told. And they lost a huge amount of reputation because this occurred. Now why did it occur? Why, why did it stop? Um, there was a study done, a number of studies done, uh, led by a lot of columnists at CNN, uh, and at the wall street journal that showed that six employees that use the ethics hotline to report what they thought was unethical and illegal practices were fired. Can you imagine that it’s against federal law to fire whistle blowers. And then my question in the chapter that I wrote is why did the board allow this? And it came in on the hotline where they asleep at the switch. I’ll tell you, I would have been, if I was a board member, it would’ve never happened. And actually John Stumpf, who was the CEO who was finally forced out, forced to retire, he told the board the first year that he has a problem board said, well get it fixed.

Stan Silverman:               26:11

John. The second year he came back and said, he still has the problem. If I was the CEO of Wells Fargo, I expect to get fired that day. You never let it go that long. I as a former senior would expect to get fired. That’s the standard I hold myself to. If you don’t get it fixed, you’re out. Of course you’re out and we don’t want for five years and went on for five years and eventually stump left. Um, and they replaced them, uh, actually with the COO at the time. And I really wondered why, cause he was still with the bank. They needed somebody from outside and they finally bringing in somebody from the outside.

Jim Rembach:                  26:45

Well, as you’re talking about that, I started thinking about, you know, your comments about where they sleeping at the wheel and talking about the board. And so for me, when I think about the, um, you know, a board experience that I’ve had a couple of nonprofits, couple of for-profits is that, you know, one of the things that we’re always trying to be mindful of is not to get into the daily operations of the organization itself, but when you’re starting to talk about this whole hotline thing, isn’t that kind of getting into the operations? I mean, where, where is that line and what do I have to do?

Stan Silverman:               27:13

Absolutely not. I’ve written a lot of articles about the line between governance and operations and I never crossed that line, but let me tell you when it affects the reputation of the company, which can affect, uh, how this shareholders are affected in terms of reputation and the drop in stock price. If the board is not there, they’re not doing their jobs. That’s why the hotline comes in to the audit committee, right to the audit committee and if the hotline report is about the CEO, it goes directly to the chairman of the audit committee. It doesn’t go to the CEO, it doesn’t go to the committee first. And so it’s your response. It’s the responsibility of every board member to make sure that the reputation of the company is protected because that impacts the shareholders and the shareholders value in and what they have invested in the company.

Stan Silverman:               28:04

And I go through, I’ve been through a lot of CEO and performance reviews and my fellow board members only want to talk about the numbers. They want to talk about financial performance. I said, no, no, no. We’re going to talk about tone culture. No, we don’t really have to talk about that. And I dig my heels in and I just won’t let go. I’m a Barracuda on that because I’ve seen what happens. I was not protected by my board at PQ corporation when I worked for this tyrant. My people were not protected. And so my job is to protect the people from tyrants and to protect the reputation. And I’m going to hang tough on that. Like a Barracuda.

Jim Rembach:                  28:44

Well, obviously you are a man full of passion and some deep wisdom. And one of the things that we focus in on this show are quotes in order to hopefully bring those things to the present and in the forefront. Is there a quote or two that you like that you can share?

Stan Silverman:               28:58

You never know where the future will take you. You never know where the future will take you. It’s my favorite quote. Um, I’m in my fourth career when I graduated school with a degree in chemical engineering. I never thought I’d be an author of a book. I never thought I’d come up through my company to the CEO. I never thought I’d so I sit on 14 boards or I’d be a nationally syndicated communist, widely read, um, or in leadership. And so you have to take advantage of every opportunity that comes your way, that you want to take advantage of and you need to make your own opportunities. You just can’t sit around and wait until they come to you. You need to make your own opportunities. There’s another quote that I love, um, and it goes something like this, don’t me, it can’t be done.

Stan Silverman:               29:43

Don’t tell me it can’t be done. Everybody’s familiar with the movie Pearl Harbor. And if they recall the scene where, uh, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and a couple of days later, uh, we declare war on Japan and president Franklin Roosevelt is meeting with his joint chiefs of staff and he wants to bomb Tokyo and they’re telling them we can’t be done. It can’t be done for this reason and that reason. And you know, and he actually stands up and out of his chair, which just shocks everybody. And he says, with such a serious look, don’t tell me it can’t be done. A month later, a sub commander comes and visits him and says, I know how to do it. We’re going to launch bombers off the carrier and this is what we’re going to do. And that Ray was led by Colonel Doolittle. So whenever somebody tells me it can’t be done, I say, don’t tell me a Tempe done.

Stan Silverman:               30:37

Tell me how we can get 80 or 90% of the objective, which might be good enough or maybe even a hundred percent by breaking paradigms and doing things differently. And I write about that a lot in my book, but don’t tell me it can’t be done. And as your soul, as you’re an individual coming up through your organization, never tell your boss it can’t be done. Maybe it can’t be done the way you’re thinking about it, but give him alternatives when, how you might approach it or give her alternatives with how you might do something different. The boss didn’t hire you to tell him that or her that it can’t be done. They want solutions. So figure out how to do it. Even if you have to go to other people involved. It’s a strength. It’s a strength to ask other people to get involved. Even if you don’t know how to do it, bring other people together, you’ll get it done.

Stan Silverman:               31:24

You know, that’s really interesting because one of the things they talk in regards to employee engagement is that employees seek to find a autonomy. You know, they don’t want to be task and policy Laden and not mean they don’t want that, right? They want to have more autonomy. And so what that means is you have to take advantage of getting the autonomy right. You have to earn the autonomy, you have to build your way to getting the autonomy. You can’t just expect that it would be given to you and you also, on the flip side, can’t let that policy and all that stuff get in your way because maybe it is that you’re working for an organization that you shouldn’t be in. Right? Yeah. So there’s, there’s something else I’ve read about in the book. It goes something like this. Let’s assume you have all the authority in the world to make a decision, but there’s risk in the decision. You’re unsure, you just, you’re just not quite ready to make the decision. You need some advice. You can ask other people for their advice and for their input. It doesn’t mean you have to listen to them. It’s not a weakness. It’s a strength to ask for advice and opinion because that way your de-risking, your de-risking, your decision, people are somewhat risk adverse, especially in the organization that doesn’t tolerate risk, which is another thing they need to, they need to allow their people to make mistakes and risks. They don’t

Jim Rembach:                  32:40

learn it, but they need to make responsible risks and they need to de-risked the decision. The best way to the risks there to see a decision is to ask other opinion, other people for their opinion. And that’s what you need to do. So, and I think you bring up the really good P key point of that is that you don’t have to necessarily accept it, but gaining the perspective has significant value. So when I start thinking about, you know, you going through this journey, um, you know, 11 progressions and responsibility up to CEO, you know, where you are now starting your fourth career. I know there’s a lot of humps that you’ve gotten over that you’ve been able to use as opportunities to learn for yourself as well as to teach others. But is there, or is there one of those opportunities that you can share with us so that we can learn more about getting over the hump?

Stan Silverman:               33:25

Yeah, well the big one was the one I just described a few moments ago that is working for my tyrant. Um, I learned so much. I learned so much working from my tyrant, uh, more so than I had I not worked for him. The other thing everybody needs to do to get over that hump is to

Jim Rembach:                  33:42

get out of your comfort zone.

Stan Silverman:               33:44

And I have a great example of that. Um, I was a business manager at our company and uh, I was business manager for anhydrous, sodium metasilicate. It’s unnecessary to know what that is, but we call, let’s call it ASM. It’s used in the urgency in, in industrial cleaning. So Rhone plank, which is a French company, decided to dump their, a ASM made in France into our country below home market price in France, and they basically stole a lot of our business and so that qualified as dumping product and therefore we could take them to court and get dumping duties assigned. So to have them stop doing that. So I went to my CEO and I said, I explained the situation. He said, yeah, go ahead, go Sue him. I said, okay. I went to our GC general counsel. I said, I need an attorney for this purpose. He says, I got just the guy. He picks a guy who’s very good at, and I’ve done the cases, not a wall street or a New York guy,

Jim Rembach:                  34:43

God Philadelphia, right?

Stan Silverman:               34:44

[inaudible] actually, he was a pretty scrappy guy, that kind of lawyer. So my product manager and I meet with him and he says, yeah, this is a great case, but I’m not gonna run the case. You’re going to run the case.

Jim Rembach:                  34:57

I said, what

Stan Silverman:               34:58

Ted, you’re going to run the case because when you go in front of the international trade commission and the five commissioners, if they see business guys presenting their case, they’re much less harsh on when breaking a protocol in the court. Then if it’s an attorney, so as an attorney, they’re going to hammer me in my, in my colleagues for even the saws mistake, we’re going to give you a little wide latitude because you’re just a bunch of business guys trying to protect your market. I will teach you what to do. And so we went, we did this and we won the case. We won the case

Jim Rembach:                  35:33

five zero.

Stan Silverman:               35:34

I felt like we won the Olympics. I felt like we, the goal a goal and they, they assign the highest stumping duty to that product so that they had to stop importing it. So they protected our market. And it lasted for years and years and years. And so I was so out of my comfort zone preparing the case. I’m not an attorney, I’m a business guy. I’m an engineer as a business guy, right? And we go in this huge chamber with these five commissioners. It’s like the Supreme court chamber, except as the international trade commission. I’m looking around with these high ceilings thinking, what the hell am I doing here? Well, you know what? We learned a lot about ourselves because we did something that we never did before. We were way out of our comfort zone, way out of our comfort zone, and it felt great.

Stan Silverman:               36:19

It felt great. So sometimes that’s what you have to do. Well, and it seems like you also had a good mentor in that lawyer and you were, and while you may have been placed with him, I think what we all have to do is proactively try to find those types of people. All of us, it doesn’t matter where we are in our journey. You’re absolutely right. We don’t, we don’t grow by ourselves. We grew up because people help us. And if we’re smart, we’re going to take advantage of that help and we’re going to play it forward because we’re going now help people who are coming up behind us. And that’s what I do. I help people because people future. I help future leaders and help develop them because I was developed by the people that came before me. That’s our job. That’s what we do.

Stan Silverman:               37:05

That should be our legacy for most certainly. Okay, so when I started looking at, you know, your journey, start talking about those four plus decades, we’re talking about your fourth career. I’m sure that you have still several goals that you’d like to achieve, but can you share one of those with us? Yeah. First let me, let me say that people, people are very hot on goals. You know, you graduated from school and needed a whole bunch of goals. I only had two goals in my life and they were sequential. They weren’t at the same time. When I got to school, my first goal was to rise to a position where I could run a P. and. L. I can be the general manager of a business and be responsible for PNL. I got that some years later when I was promoted to be president of our Canadian company and there was my P and L was my company.

Stan Silverman:               37:52

It was my company. As soon as I reached that point, I’m thinking I can become CEO in a company. And that was my second goal. So I only have two goals and there was no timeline, there was no time. Loomis who was, it was just too general, too big goals out in front. And I work towards those goals as quickly as the opportunities allowed me to to do. I didn’t get upset if I thought that I was and I took a couple of lateral excitements and promotions to do it. And so that’s a lesson for all of us. Let’s not focus so much on so many little goals. Let’s pick the big goal out there and shoot for the goal. And you don’t have to have more than one at a time. You can do the second goal after you did the first goal. So what is my goal now? My goal now

Jim Rembach:                  38:36

is to help people be better leaders,

Stan Silverman:               38:39

help people be better. Business people, help people be better, board members, how people rise up through their careers and so that they become different than their peers. So they get the next promotion. And I teach people how to be different than your peers. What to talk about when you go into an interview, what to do when you get into your job, how to be collaborative, how to build teams, how to never throw people under the bus.

Jim Rembach:                  39:06

Those people get get tossed out. Yeah.

Stan Silverman:               39:08

Real quick. And so my job is to help people be successful and that’s my legacy. And it’s my legacy too. As I wrote, uh, in my, in the forward of my book, it’s the legacy to my kids and to my grandkids.

Jim Rembach:                  39:21

And the fast leader. Legion wishes you the very best. Alright, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time to stop home. Calm down. Okay. Stand the hump day hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights, fast, ask you several questions, and your job is to give us robust, rapid responses or can help us with onward and upward faster. Stan Silverman, are you ready to hold down? I’ll do my best. Yes. So what’s holding you back from being an even better leader today? Nothing. What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received? The best leadership advice I’ve ever received is to lead like you would like to be led. What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success? I relate to people really well. Uh, I get to know them. What is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or life? What am I tools

Stan Silverman:               40:16

is my commitment to ethics and integrity and my disdain for anyone that’s not ethical or doesn’t have integrity.

Jim Rembach:                  40:25

And what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be for energy genre. Of course. We’re going to put a link to be different on your show notes page as well. Thank you. So good to great by. Jim Collins is the very best leadership book I’ve ever read

Stan Silverman:               40:39

and I, I, I read a lot of them. Uh, it is phenomenal. And one of the points in his book is you want to be a level five leader, which means that you’re humble,

Jim Rembach:                  40:51

you’re not Imperial, you’re there to do your job,

Stan Silverman:               40:55

um, you think about and care about the folks around you because they are the ones that make you successful. And that’s, and he, he reached that conclusion by studying company after company after company who returns the best returns over a long period of time in a stock market. And that’s a common trait for the leaders that laid that lead those companies.

Jim Rembach:                  41:16

Okay. Stan, this is my last Humpday hold on question. So imagine you had the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can only have to take one. What’s or knowledge would you take back with you and why? It’s to be humble as a, and

Stan Silverman:               41:34

understand that you get results through other people. You don’t get results yourself. Your job is to set tone at the top culture and cut people loose to do their thing.

Jim Rembach:                  41:45

Stan, I had fun with you today. Can you please share what the fast leader Legion, how they can connect with you?

Stan Silverman:               41:49

Yeah, the best way to do it is through, uh, my website. Uh, look for or type in and search for Silverman leadership.com you’ll get to my website. You’ll see all the articles that I’ve written. You can buy my book, uh, by going to Barnes and noble and just typing in my name, Stan Silberman and the title will come up, be different. The key to business and career success.

Jim Rembach:                  42:12

Stan Silverman, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The past leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 261: Stan Silverman: Be different through your power skills appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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Stan Silverman Show Notes Page Stan Silverman learned so much working for his tyrant, more so had he not worked for him. Luckily for others, Stan persevered this experience. Eventually, he was promoted above his tyrant, Stan Silverman learned so much working for his tyrant, more so had he not worked for him. Luckily for others, Stan persevered this experience. Eventually, he was promoted above his tyrant, and within three weeks of his promotion, he had cause and terminated him.
Stan Silverman grew up in the northeast section of Philadelphia. His dad was an entrepreneur, running a small electrical supply business, providing lighting and electrical products to industrial and commercial customers. His mom served as the bookkeeper for the company. The dinner table conversation always revolved around business issues and the importance of customer service.
His parents stressed the importance of education, hard work, honesty, ethics, and integrity, and Stan states that these traits formed the basis of his value system. It is one of the reasons why he is a strong advocate for the right tone at the top and organizational culture.
Stan was always mechanically inclined. He and his younger brother Stuart used odds and ends of lumber stored in their garage to build the frame of a go-cart and attached the wheels of an old baby stroller. They raced their friends down a steeply sloped street a block from their house.
There were no parents involved to help them build these go-carts. When they found they didn’t have the fastest cart, they figured out why, made modifications, and hoped that races the next day would yield a better result.
As a young teenager, an inquisitive mind led Stan to make firecrackers. Leery about being in close proximity when setting them off, this future engineer used a match head buried in the firecracker and 25 feet of train wire from his Lionel train transformer to set them off remotely. Stan says that you can’t do that today without a visit from the local police and Homeland Security. He says some freedom has been taken away from kids to explore and be kids.
Stan attended Drexel University where he earned a BS degree in chemical engineering and an MBA. After working two years at Atlantic Richfield, he joined PQ Corporation as a chemical process engineer, where he was promoted up through 11 jobs, reaching the position of CEO.
As the author of Be Different! The Key to Business and Career Success, Stan entered his fourth career after coming up the ranks of PQ Corporation, serving as a director on public, private, private equity and nonprofit boards and writing nationally syndicated columns on leadership for the Philadelphia Business Journal.
He writes about his experiences and observations as a way of giving back to those who went before him and who have helped him be successful, and to make a difference in the lives of others who follow. For him, helping others be successful is one of the most satisfying things anyone can do. He writes to share advice with his two sons and daughters-in-law as well as his four grandchildren. He writes to help businesses thrive and provide guidance to individuals, so they become more effective leaders, entrepreneurs, and board members. This is his legacy.
Stan resides in Dresher, PA, with his wife Jackie, who has been his support over the years, allowing him to advance throughout his career. He is forever grateful to her.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @stansilverman to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“You’re always on a journey to try to be the best.]]>
Fast Leader Show Podcast 43:20
260: Rishad Tobaccowala: Data can remove your soul https://www.fastleader.net/rishadtobaccowala/ Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:18:57 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=16288 https://www.fastleader.net/rishadtobaccowala/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/rishadtobaccowala/feed/ 0 <p>Rishad Tobaccowala Show Notes Page Rishad Tobaccowala stepped back from the brink of data overload by developing practical tools and frameworks that assisted his organization to properly put data in its place. He now teaches others to combine their emotional intelligence with their data intelligence and to focus beyond the short-term tendencies that many businesses [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/rishadtobaccowala/">260: Rishad Tobaccowala: Data can remove your soul</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Rishad Tobaccowala Show Notes Page

Rishad Tobaccowala stepped back from the brink of data overload by developing practical tools and frameworks that assisted his organization to properly put data in its place. He now teaches others to combine their emotional intelligence with their data intelligence and to focus beyond the short-term tendencies that many businesses fall victim to.

Rishad was born in Bombay, India, and has one sister who lives in California.

Growing up, Rishad could be found in a book store reading books.

He immigrated to Chicago in 1980 with a BS in Mathematics to follow in the footsteps of his father by getting an MBA at the University of Chicago.

Rishad Tobaccowala is the author of Restoring the Soul of Business: Staying Human in the Age of Data. His parents loved books and reading as he did, and he always wanted to write one, and he finally has. He’s also the Chief Growth Officer of Publicis Groupe, an 80,000-person marketing company.

Rishad has spent his entire 37-year career at this one company in a wide spectrum of roles spanning advertising, media, strategy, digital and data. As the world changed and the company changed, Rishad re-invented both himself and the company.

In addition to his two grown daughters, his greatest pride are the hundreds of people he has had the opportunity to train, mentor, and guide over the years who are making an impact all over the world and to most of whom he remains connected.

Rishad currently resides in Chicago with his wife, Rekha.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @rishad to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“The soul of a company is something that integrates the spreadsheet and the story.” – Click to Tweet

“Companies that fixate on the short-term tend to implode in the middle to long term.” – Click to Tweet

“Companies should at least look after it’s talent and not just its customers.” – Click to Tweet

“We may be losing the plot by forgetting the human, the culture, and the storytelling.” – Click to Tweet

“Do customers find your service people interesting or do they find that interacting with them doesn’t make any sense?” – Click to Tweet

“Do employees of your company consider they are working with a company with great values.” – Click to Tweet

“If you don’t think about the heart and the story, then your data not only is cold, but it could potentially mislead you.” – Click to Tweet

“Most of the data can capture the obvious, not the non-obvious.” – Click to Tweet

“The non-obvious comes with experience and age.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s what we add to the machine that will actually add value to us, our companies, and to society.” – Click to Tweet

“A machine looks backward; a human being looks forward and finds ways to trick the machine.” – Click to Tweet

“Everything is easy, but people get in the way.” – Click to Tweet

“People always do stuff that data doesn’t predict.” – Click to Tweet

“Very successful companies have found that 90% of their data is irrelevant or wrong.” – Click to Tweet

“Don’t tell me what your data is, tell me what your perspective is, and tell me something that is provocative that the data tells us.” – Click to Tweet

“What data is worth receiving, and eliminate the rest.” – Click to Tweet

“Ask questions that data could answer, don’t ask data-driven questions.” – Click to Tweet

“Too much measurement is the same thing as too much social media and too many notifications.” – Click to Tweet

“The inability to speak either the truth or the truth to power is the downfall of the organization.” – Click to Tweet

“We have to talk about the turd on the table and speak the truth to power.” – Click to Tweet

“The only way forward in these very difficult, challenging, and times of opportunity, is to see, think, and feel differently.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Rishad Tobaccowala stepped back from the brink of data overload by developing practical tools and frameworks that assisted his organization to properly put data in its place. He now teaches others to combine their emotional intelligence with their data intelligence and to focus beyond the short-term tendencies that many businesses fall victim to.

Advice for others

Gain perspectives and patience and don’t make decisions that are 3 or 6-month decisions.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Not enough time.

Best Leadership Advice

Sleep at least seven hours a day.

Secret to Success

Reading

Best tools in business or life

Self-awareness.

Recommended Reading

Restoring the Soul of Business: Staying Human in the Age of Data

Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow

Contacting Rishad Tobaccowala

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rishadtobaccowala/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/rishad

Website: https://rishadtobaccowala.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

Jim Rembach:                  (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who has the power to bring you insights and information from 80,000 people.

Jim Rembach:                 (00:11)

Rishad Tobaccowala was born in Bombay, India and has one sister who lives in California growing up for shod, which could be found in a bookstore reading books. He immigrated to Chicago in 1980 with a BS in mathematics to follow in the footsteps of his father by getting an MBA at the University of Chicago. Rishad Tobaccowala is the author of restoring the soul of business, staying human in the age of data. His parents loved books and reading as he did and he always wanted to write one and he finally has. He’s also the chief growth officer of publicist group, an 80,000 person marketing company. Rashad has spent his entire 37 year career at this one company in a wide spectrum of roles spanning advertising, media strategy, digital and data. As the world changed and the company changed, Rashad reinvented both himself and the company in addition to his two grown daughters. His greatest pride are the hundreds of people he has had the opportunity to train, mentor and guide over the years and who are making an impact all over the world and to most of whom he remains connected. Rashad currently lives in Chicago with his rifle. Rekha Rishad Tobaccowala are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Rishad T.:                         (01:22)

Absolutely. And thank you for inviting me.

Jim Rembach:                  (01:24)

Well, you know, I’m glad you’re here and we’ve had some good discussion prior to actually turning on the record button. But before we get to that, can you tell us and our Legion a little bit more about yourself so that we can get to know you even better?

Rishad T.:                         (01:38)

Sure. So I, uh, have, uh, as you mentioned, grown up in India, come to the United States. Uh, and there are two or three things that sort of, in addition to my love of books, I love drinking beer. So, uh, I, and I love food, conversation, food and beer. To me, I, one of the most interesting triangles in life, uh, the other is on an average year. I unfortunately am on 120 flights a year. And, uh, I’m about to take off tonight on flight number 114 to Bombay, India. Uh, so that’s uh, the other part of me that you did not cover. So my love of beer and food and flying on plates

Jim Rembach:                  (02:22)

and then also your passion is absolutely what you’ve written this book. And that’s about bringing soul back into the business. So tell us a little bit about why that has such a passion for you.

Rishad T.:                         (02:33)

The reason that has had a big bash and for me is over the last five years, uh, I began to understand that because of data, the increased use of data, the increased availability of data because of the speed with which business moves as well as the increased pressure from financial markets on leadership, uh, companies were tilting towards the side of their business more than the story side of their business. And I sort of defined the soul of a company as something that integrates the spreadsheet and the story. Uh, so a business with only spreadsheet, which is what we were tending towards, would end up actually having three very damaging consequences, which I began to see over the last five years. The first one is that these companies, uh, because they fix it on the short term tend to implode in the middle to longterm. A company like Wells Fargo, it focused on opening as many accounts as you possibly could is your, as an example.

Rishad T.:                         (03:37)

Uh, the second factor is you began to have people not only when they laid off, but the people who were inside these companies were disengaged. And if you think about the fact that companies should at least look after it style and, and not just as customers, that becomes a big issue. So that’s something the second, but the third, there was some interesting societal impacts. And these were particularly in technology companies who are, the first two elements were very, very successful. So if you think about the market cap of the very successful technology companies, they’re incredible. And if you do a great extent, see the job satisfaction of some of the people there, they’re pretty good. I mean, it may be back and forth and they’re pretty good. But the societal impact of let’s say a Facebook, YouTube and others are an Amazon was leading to three key things, sort of a, a loss of trust, a breakdown in sort of Simfinity and increased polarization.

Rishad T.:                         (04:38)

So your blue, I’m red and there’s nothing like purple and not only are you blue and I’m red, but you should not exist. Blue should not exist. Um, forget about even thinking about bubble. That’s some of the second and the third was rising inequality. And part of what happens when you have very significant rise in inequality where today, you know, I think about, uh, the top hundred people in the world have more wealth than the bottom 50% of the world’s population. Uh, at some stage people question the system. And I believe our system for good or bad is a pretty good system. But if you start basically having a system where most people feel disenfranchised and contrast each other, you begin to have some interesting issues. And a lot of that comes because of algorithms and algorithms are driven by data. So this was more of a cry, which you say, listen, as a person with a degree in mathematics with an MBA in finance, someone who is basically pioneered a lot of digital stuff, we may be losing the plot. I forgetting the human, forgetting the culture and forgetting the storytelling. And I’m not basically saying that’s the only thing you need. But without that, what’s the point?

Jim Rembach:                  (05:50)

Well and for me, I worked for an organization that captured the customer experience for many years and I always used to say that data has no, you know, what we have to be able to do is enable that data, you know, to have some meaning and connection and things like that. And you talk about, you know, that we have data all over the place and talking about three types of data. Now we’ve talking about those three types of data. What, what are they to you?

Rishad T.:                         (06:16)

So you know, the, the, I think the first is we have different types of data. This one type of data which we basically use to help our business. And those are data that basically tells you a little bit about the customer. So customer insight, you have data that gives you feedback so you can have competitive advantage. And then you have data which has intelligence, which basically tells you where you may have the ability to launch new products and new services. And that tends to basically be the data that we measure a lot and are very important. But there’s another set of data which is less about the math and more about the meaning. But those can also be measured, but they tend to be less instantaneous, but they can be pretty longer term. So one of them is a brand’s reputation. So what happens when a brand’s reputation significantly changes?

Rishad T.:                         (07:11)

So Facebook for instance, was a brand where two and a half, three years ago, 90% of the people who got a job at Facebook accepted a job at Facebook. Today that number two years later is 50% okay. Their stock prices doing fine. It’s just, you know, 10 15% off from the top. Hi, it’s making a lot of profits. But don’t you think there’s likely to be a longer term disadvantage when you can’t get one of your two best engineers because they don’t want to come to you for only because your reputation has been hurt. So, and you can measure reputation, customer service beliefs, you know. Do do customers find your service people interesting or do they find that interacting with them doesn’t make any sense? The other ones are, do employees of your company consider that they have a working in a company with great values?

Rishad T.:                         (08:07)

This morning I was talking to someone who basically said who’s the head of HR? Said one out of two kids now ask what is the purpose and value of our companies, things that they never discussed five, 10 years ago. So what do people think about your company as well as the company’s missions and values? So companies, vicious value, employees, service, reputation, and then to a great extent what is not captured in the data is also something that’s interesting about data because to your point, a, which is your data does not have a heart. I use a sick by Blaise Pascal, who’s a French, was a French philosopher. And he basically said, people choose with their hearts and they use numbers to justify what they just did. Right? And other definition that I once heard was a story is data with the soul. And so to a great extent, if you don’t think about the heart and the story that your data, not only scold but it could potentially mislead you. And a great line, which I use in my book, um, which has been put together by this lady whose name I do not recall right now is she basically said algorithms are weapons of mass destruction,

Rishad T.:                         (09:29)

right? And so my stuff is, Hey, listen, understand that [inaudible] has been put together by a human being at, so the human beings bias has gotten to the data. So don’t necessarily worship at that data you met if following the wrong God home.

Jim Rembach:                  (09:45)

You know, as you’re talking, I started, started coming back to a particular conversation that I had, um, with a, believe it or not, a college pitching coach at the university of Missouri. Fred. Um, and, and Fred said something to me that I think I’ll take with me for a very long time, maybe even to the grade grave. And I think it totally applies to what we’re talking about here in regards to data and analytics and all of that is we can do all the algorithms and we can do all the number crunching and we can do all the, you know, the collection and things like that. But Fred said, he goes, you can’t teach a new dog old tricks. And what he meant by this is we need to have the people who are, have more, have the wisdom, the people wisdom. Um, the, the organizational wisdom, uh, the, the marketplace, the, the workplace, the, all of the, the, you know, business acumen. We need to have those people actually work with the data so that it does have meaning and heart. We can’t just take the data and say, okay, we got rid of you. You old dog. That’s just not going to work.

Rishad T.:                         (10:54)

It’s not that it worked for a couple of reasons. One is most of the data can capture the obvious and not the non-obvious. And the non-obvious comes with experience and age in another saying is new brooms sweep clean. Old brooms know the corners. Okay. And the only way the old brews do the corners is because they’ve been dented by the quarters. Right. So that is one particular perspective. But the other reason why I think it’s extremely important is as modern technology continues to accelerate at very fast rates, many of the math parts of our job, the computing parts of our job, seeing the patterns part of our job broadly is going to be computed away. And it’s what we add to the machine that will actually both add value to us, to our companies and to society. And yes, the best computers can bet beat the best chess players, but the best chess players with the computers can beat the computers.

Rishad T.:                         (12:02)

And so, and that’s what people don’t, aren’t remembering. That’s actually true. You take the best computer with the best person and they will beat the best computer. So that definitely means that we add value. The other one is this. If you think about the ability of compute, Facebook believe they could like find all these issues and problems using algorithms and AI. They’ve missed so many people in problems that they now have to have 35,000 people sitting on top of those. And the reason is because the machine looks backwards. A human being looks forward and finds ways to trick the machine. The machine computes the human fields and feeling is not just euros at once. So while the other thing is toggling between zeros and ones, I’ll go to 0.1 with a little bit of red color. What are you going to do now?

Jim Rembach:                  (12:53)

You know what you’re talking to though. I think that’s one of the reasons why so many people actually go into the computers because the human beings are so difficult to be able to understand they aren’t zeros and ones.

Rishad T.:                         (13:03)

Right? Well, as I say, everything is easy, but people get in the way.

Jim Rembach:                  (13:08)

So true. Okay. So when we start talking about this in the book, you mentioned something about the need for a human centric data policy. What does that to you? So

Rishad T.:                         (13:20)

the reason I came across this human centric data policy was primarily because I saw that very successful companies were utilizing data, but they were utilizing them in a different way. And by the very data, this book is pro data, but it’s just like, Hey, let’s bring some intelligence and perspective to it. So the first is to sort of recognize that the reason why people to the point you made, uh, often just to, to as the data is because data centric interactions can be, you know, Buch easier to deal with, but a real human interaction often is far more effective. The second is people always do stuff that data doesn’t predict.

Rishad T.:                        (14:09)

And third is data itself is a very wide ranging quality and very successful companies have found that 90% of the data they have is irrelevant or wrong. Uh, because it, it, by the nature of the way it’s collected, it’s highly driven, uh, you know, sort of, uh, dated, et cetera. And I put forth that approach where over the years I’ve studied lots of companies, I did a lot of studying to write this book. So I basically said, okay, what am I experienced, what am I seeing and what have I read? Right? And then I’d try Ash. And then I came up with this thing called to get a human approach about people. You need to basically think about six eyes and these are not like two Cyclops, you know, like it’s six the letter. I, so what is, when someone gives you the data, you need to interpret the data.

Rishad T.:                         (15:06)

So what I always tell people, don’t tell me what the data is. Tell me what your perspective is. Tell me what your point of view is and tell me something that is provocative that the data tells us. Just don’t tell me that there’s data. So you have to interpret the second one, which we underestimate is involving diverse people to look at the data. So you have some amazingly crazy stuff that happens like a Pepsi commercial that sort of thinks that they can, you know, overcome racism by giving someone a Pepsi. Right now clearly someone looking at that, there was probably no person of color in the room or the person of color in the room was so scared to death. They didn’t say anything. Okay, so you’ve got to involve diverse people. Third is what does the data relate as it relates to interconnect is my third.

Rishad T.:                         (15:56)

So you know, inclusiveness is one. Interpretation is one, but interconnecting, which is anything is part of a larger ecosystem. As we discussed. It’s part of a larger societal effect. So if this is running counter to what something else is, you have to ask why. Right? And what is happening, the fault is almost any innovation isn’t the result of data itself is the result of leaping and connecting dots between data and other things. So the whole idea of how do you imagine where the data might go and not just let the data you know happen. Then obviously you want to iterate, which is if you look at the data, ask for other things. And then the final one, which is the most important of this people experience is when you come up with a result, us is that what people actually experience, right? Which is investigate people’s experiences. So often I ask people if you want to understand the human condition, why don’t you read a Russian or French novelist? It’ll tell you more about the human condition. If you read Anna Karenina or Madam Flo, you know, a better Bovary right? Then if you basically spent hours and hours looking at grids and graphs.

Jim Rembach:                  (17:13)

True. Okay. So I mean, as you’re talking about this, I mean I’m still going back to the whole issue of you know, dangers, dangers and measurement, dangers, interpretation, and you talk about, you know, many of those yes. Imbalances. Yes, there are a few.

Rishad T.:                         (17:30)

So the, the, the third, the, the, these are some of them. The first is to determine what data is worth receiving and to eliminate the rest. There’s this poem which I sort of paraphrase, uh, which was Samuel Taylor Coleridge poem where the lion, when something like water, water everywhere, so much water or the wards, the shrink water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink today. Most companies are the following data, data everywhere. So much data. We will sake data, data everywhere, pray who will help you think? The first thing is what data is worth receiving so and eliminate the rest. So that’s the one key thing, which is what’s good and what is it? The second is often very much like one bad Apple spoils the barrel. You got to watch out for bad data entering the good data, just like bad money drives out good money.

Rishad T.:                         (18:22)

And the third one also is stop using data as a crutch. So whenever someone gives me an answer and they just cough up a number, I literally tell that I don’t need you anymore. You just have toughed up a number. A machine can cough up a number and finally ask questions that data can answer. Don’t ask data-driven questions. Okay? This is the hardest for most people to think about because they say, but the data told me and showed me the way I said, no, no know you looked at the data, you brought human insight into the data. You then asked a new question. When you ask the question, make sure that that question could actually be answered by the data that you just saw. Or was it just that the data gave you an idea for a question and now you’ve got to go find the answer somewhere else. So often what happens is through co-relation, people see trends, but then instead of asking what the trend is, they think the trend is the answer. So those are some of the things that I, I sort of suggest. And most importantly, I think we’re measuring too much. There’s just too much measurement and too much measurement is the same thing as too much social media intubating notifications at some particular stage. You aren’t taking the temperature, you’re just constantly putting the a on me to, into your mouth.

Jim Rembach:                  (19:46)

Well, and as you’re talking, I also see and what I’ve seen happen over and again is that people don’t understand and they want it simplified and they just say, just give me one number that’s, that’s another yet one of those imbalance issues. And one of those pitfalls that I often see people fall into. And then the other one is, well it’s intangible. It’s, you know, you can’t really measure it. And so for me it’s like then you just don’t know how to measure because everything is measurable. Now whether or not you have confidence, you know, is a different story.

Rishad T.:                         (20:20)

Right. And as I tell people, there are only two numbers that are, would always be true. One, which you know, and one which you don’t know. So the one you know is the day you were born, that’s a number, right? And that the day you will die. That is a number. Any other number about you is a variable, including your height, your weight, your network, everything. So bio stuff has given me a number. You can’t even define yourself with anything but your death. What sort of number is that?

Jim Rembach:                  (20:49)

Too funny. So my, my oldest son is grown, he’s grown a lot and he, so I’m six, four or at least I was and I’m six, three and a half. Um, gravity’s taking over and he’s six, two. And I said, just stop right there. I’ll catch ya.

Rishad T.:                        ( 21:04)

That’s exactly right because we are [inaudible] they’re growing, right. And that that’s the whole idea is like there is nothing like a number except that your death data, your birthday.

Jim Rembach:                  (21:15)

That’s so true. Okay. So now you have a couple chapters in this book that have some extremely colorful names to them and one of them, one of them is in the first one we’re going to talk about is the turd on the table. What is the turn on the table? So, so

Rishad T.:                         (21:32)

the background for the turn on the table is the following. Often we are in a lot of meetings and there’s something that we all want to say. It’s the middle of the table and it looks like a brownie. It’s moist. And people refuse to acknowledge that that is not a brownie, but it’s a piece of shit. Okay. And in many organizations, the inability to speak either the truth or truth to power is the downfall of the organization. And there are two challenges at this. Actually, I first came up with this statement many, many years ago when I was in a meeting with the chief executive officer of Adobe. Uh, his name is Sean [inaudible] and Orion. And he’s one of the people who’s actually read by book and endorsed it. But this, this chapter begins with me and him being in a room with some other people and Adobe has made an investment, which to me sounds awful like an advertising agency.

Rishad T.:                         (22:35)

Okay. And I and the advertising agency business. And I’m saying, okay, we are partnering, but you seem to be investing in a direct competitor to me. So how are we going to basically be partners if that’s what this is? Right? And, and so I said, I’d like to bring the up the tote of the table. And he basically said, I’m glad you brought up the turd because let me explain what I’m doing. I’ve made this investment to better understand your industry. I don’t want to grow this investment for the primary reason. My economics are much better than your economics. Okay, I’m in the software business. You’re in the services business. But as I go deeper into this, often I will buy companies which will have some managed services to it. And that’s the reason I have it. But that’s not the business I want to be in.

Rishad T.:                        (23:20)

And if that’s the reason that business I wanted to be in, it made no sense at all, which is why I’m here to partner with you. And interestingly, many, many years later today, the publicist group is the largest partner of Adobe worldwide. And last year and the year before, we were their number one supplier of the partner of the year. So it’s a, it’s a big difference, but you have to sort of go out and say what you have to say. And when people don’t speak to our either, because management doesn’t allow it. So management will say, say whatever you want, but if you do, they like to punish you or they’ll give you so much to do that you are inundated and you’ll say, why did I raise my voice? Uh, or as younger people or as more junior people, we don’t want to be wrong. We don’t want to run the boat.

Rishad T.:                         (24:09 )

We want to keep our jobs. So how do you create an environment where people can actually speak up? And just like, you know, a lot of people understood there were struggles at Wells Fargo. It’s now very clear that a lot of people understood that there was trouble in Boeing every year. Every day you learn more about Boeing knew exactly what was going on. Right. And if someone had spoken up before two plates crashed, whatever negative impact they would have had would not have been a reputational and financial impact. It would have just been a financial impact. Right? But yet you have a reputational financial and obviously a human tragedy impact, uh, because someone never spoke up. And so my whole stuff is, we have to talk to about the turd on the table and speak truth to power. And especially in today’s world where most of us, because of the way we consume media online as surrounded by likeminded people. So to a great extent, not only do we not recognize that the brownies actor, but we basically think the brownies the was most precious lava cake. Okay. We go to the exact opposite. So it’s not even a piece of shit. It’s basically something amazing and mild stuff is like wake up. Right?

Jim Rembach:                  (25:23 )

Well I think, I mean, okay, okay. As you’re saying that, I’m trying not to laugh is that um, you’re really talking about being and enabling and encouraging the ability to disrupt, right? Um, you’re, you’re inviting, you know, uh, from a upper level to say, Hey, you know, push back on. Right. Uh, but then you’re also saying amongst everyone else is that, you know, we have to do more of this and you actually talk about five different best practices to encourage table talk. What are they?

Rishad T.:                         (25:52)

So there are a series of them, you know, one white what is relatively sort of simple, which is some are old fashioned, but it’s still, you know, sort of like a anonymous tip box or where someone can basically, uh, go and say, Hey, this some anonymous like a, it’s not like a whistleblower program, but w where someplace can can go in because some people don’t want to be recognized. So someone can just go in and say, Hey, there is something that is going on and I need people to, uh, uh, pay attention. So if, if, if that, that, that is one. The, the, the second one, which is, which is somewhat also very interesting, is does management, uh, allow it so often what I basically, uh, ask people to, to, to sort of do is, does leadership encourage it? So, for instance, every time I would end up meeting, uh, this is what I would basically say, and this is not because I came up with this, I read widely and I said, people who can get people to speak up say the following, which is, is there something that has not been said that should have been said?

Rishad T.:                         (27:16)

So I end the meeting by saying I want to ask everybody, is there something that has not been said that should be said? Right. And then, okay, if nobody says anything like that, the next question I ask is, can someone please say what Y what we discussed or agreed on today might be wrong.

Rishad T.:                         (27:39)

Okay. So those are two very interesting ways of getting people to speak up. Because what you’re saying is we’ve said everything, but is there something that should have been said? We did not say. Maybe someone will say, well what about this? And let’s say go past that. We’ll say, okay, we’ve also agreed, but what if we were wrong? What would that look like? So you’ve set up a hypothetical question where it isn’t, you suck. So someone doesn’t have to say, Hey boss, you made a mistake or everybody in this room sucks. It’s like why? We could all be wrong because, right, which includes the person who’s saying it. Even if they spoke or did not speak up and some research I did indicated that this is what the Navy seals do. So after every project that they complete, whether it’s successful or unsuccessful, the Navy seals basically go around the room, the junior most members speaking first, and each of them basically say, what could we have done better and what will we do next time?

Rishad T.:                         (28:33)

The third is to actually provide incentives to tell the truth. You don’t have to have like a visible a program, but what happens is when someone speaks up you, if you reward them versus punish them, people will say, Hey, I want to basically do that. Many companies they say speak up and when you speak up they punish you. So what people do is they say they follow incentives, they don’t follow propaganda, right? So they want to follow the proper incentives. The fork, which is very hard for leaders to do is for bosses to often say when they are wrong, that they’re wrong. Okay. And so then you don’t have to have a bunch of people building up false narratives around a mistake that everybody knows is a mistake because then that gets engineered into the, the mental operating system of the company. And the company basically believes there is the leaders must be protected, right?

Rishad T.:                         (29:27)

Do you lead a statement has to be right, which is important. And the fifth and another one I find very, very interesting, especially today because today we have a environment, uh, for both very good reasons, but also there’s sometimes a backlash to it where people are very scared of saying anything. Uh, they’re scared of saying things even if it’s right, because it might be thought of as Harrisburg or discrimination or a microaggression or something of the song. And, and all of those things, unfortunately, are real inside an organization. Uh, and therefore I’m all too for making sure we don’t allow those things. But sometimes people get so scared that they don’t even know what to say because they don’t know if a criticism of a decision would be seen as a criticism of the person, which will then be seen as a criticism of the person’s background.

Rishad T.:                         (30:24)

You know, very quickly you could cascade down. So what I often, when I need to tell somebody something, I tell them a story. I don’t talk to them about that. I tell them a story. And at the story is either a general story, it’s a story about myself, and nobody can tell me that I am microaggressing myself. I’m just being a story of myself. Right? And you might say like, that’s terrible. I said, well, that’s me. That’s nobody else’s problem. It’s my problem. And when I do that, often people will say, I know exactly what you just said. Thank you for telling me.

Jim Rembach:                 (31:00)

That’s so true. You can’t come to them directly. You have to kind of go around the Bush as they [inaudible].

Rishad T.:                         (31:04 )

Right? So those are the five things we’ve found in as simple as just having a place where people can protest, boss behavior, bosses advocating, right? The ability to basically storytell and [inaudible] and then incentivizing those five things have always helped.

Jim Rembach:                 (31:22)

Well and that led into another chapter as you talked about having more meetings and so without going into depth so we can definitely move on to some other good parts of the show is that you’re saying to have more of those types of meetings where we can have those connections and have that relationship and have that disruption occur.

Rishad T.:                        (31:38)

So what are the key things that people have always told me is how come that I’ve always available for meetings and I go to meetings when anybody wants me to have one was this. People say don’t go to meetings and only go to meetings where you can extract value. I say I go to meetings with people ask me because I know are able to add value because they’ve asked me, right? And I will discover new things. It’s not having more meetings. That’s the problem. It’s we are going to the wrong meetings. We’re going to meetings where there should be no meeting, there’s no reason to have 20 people standing around for two hours looking at some data on a spreadsheet, which they could have read about. It’s to me the best meetings are when you have meetings that are small, small groups, one on one, one on two.

Rishad T.:                         (32:21)

Because you can build relationships, you can understand tone, you can understand, uh, body motion, body language, and those become important because 80 to 90% of the time you will then interact with that person electronically, right? But that interaction will be a big, big part of it. The other part of it is when you’re in a meeting and you’re talking to somebody, you, you have, they know that you’ve got their attention and you’ve got theirs. Uh, and so my stuff is, have more meetings and then I have this entire thing on how to run meetings with generosity, with energy, and with empathy. Uh, and so those meetings can be meaningful. And as you know, you and I have succeeded many times because people took pity on us and took time with us and helped us. Right? We can look back at meetings. I don’t think you’re gonna look back and say, I saw this particular spreadsheet and that changed my life. You basically said this interaction changed my life,

Jim Rembach:                  (33:17)

you know? Thanks for sharing all these stories that you shared. Usually what we do is we talk about, you know, a particular time when you’ve gotten over the hump, but I think you’ve shared about five or six of them through the process. So what I started thinking about this book when I made your first one, I don’t have a feeling it’s not going to be your last a, you talk about all these miles you’re flying, you talk about, you know, all of these people, you’re responsible for part of chief growth, all this transformation. And you talk a lot about change and transformation and really these are the underlying elements. But when I start thinking about all the different goals that you have, what is one of them?

Rishad T.:                        (33:51)

So my single biggest school today, uh, both as individual as well as a employee or a leader of the company, uh, is what I really wrote this book about, which is how do I help people remain relevant and transformative times in ways that they can think, see and feel differently so they can grow their company, grow their teams, and at minimum grow themselves. So my old stuff is the only way forward in these very difficult and challenging and times of opportunity is to see, think, and feel differently with the lens of how do I grow as a human being? How does my team grow? How does my company grow? And so everything I’m now doing is how can I help you grow by helping you look and think and feel differently and try to give you a perspective of why change is happening and what that changes

Jim Rembach:                 (34:54)

and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

Jim Rembach:                 (35:00)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and Aleisha TEALS in everyone using this award. Winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work. Visit [inaudible] dot com

Jim Rembach:                  (35:19)

four slash better. Alright, here we go. Fast leader Legion

Jim Rembach:                 (35:23)

time for the home. Oh now, okay, Rashad, the hub day. Hold on. As a part of our show for you, give us good insights best. And your job is to give us rapid responses to help us move onward and upward faster. So I’m going to ask you several questions. Are you ready to hoedown? You bet. All right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? Not enough time. What is the best leadership advice

Jim Rembach:                  (35:50)

do you have ever received?

Rishad T.:                         (35:52)

Sleep at least seven hours a day.

Jim Rembach:                 (35:54)

What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Rishad T.:                         (35:58 )

I build a case for the exact opposite of what I, what I believe.

Jim Rembach:                  (36:02)

And what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life reading and what would be one book that you’d recommend and it can be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to restoring the soul of your business on your show notes page as well.

Rishad T.:                        (36:18 )

Uh, today I would say that the single best book that I would recommend to people is homo tube by URI. Uh, Nova, you already have all the person who wrote homo sapiens. Uh, so he’s written another book which is less famous than safe, it’s called homo du. And it’s basically about, uh, the future and impact of data on society. And he comes at it in a very nice way. I don’t completely agree with him. I in fact, uh, cite him a lot in my book, but it’s a very, very interesting fun book and it’s more business oriented than sapiens and more held together than 21 lessons for the 21st century.

Jim Rembach:                  (37:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion, you can find links to that. And other resources by going to Rashad show notes page, which you’ll be able to find it fast leader.net forward slash Rashad Toboco wallah. Okay. Rashad, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Rishad T.:                         (37:27)

The one piece of knowledge that I would take back with B is to have a sense of perspective and patience because we are going to live or work for 50 to 60 years after we are 25 so don’t make decisions that are three or six month decisions.

Jim Rembach:                  (37:45)

Rashad, I had fun with you today. Can you tell the fast leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Rishad T.:                         (37:49)

I can be connected with on Twitter at Rashad or you can basically reach me at [inaudible] gmail.com

Jim Rembach:                  (37:57)

tobacco Tobaccowala thank you for sharing her knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

 

The post 260: Rishad Tobaccowala: Data can remove your soul appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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Rishad Tobaccowala Show Notes Page Rishad Tobaccowala stepped back from the brink of data overload by developing practical tools and frameworks that assisted his organization to properly put data in its place. Rishad Tobaccowala stepped back from the brink of data overload by developing practical tools and frameworks that assisted his organization to properly put data in its place. He now teaches others to combine their emotional intelligence with their data intelligence and to focus beyond the short-term tendencies that many businesses fall victim to.
Rishad was born in Bombay, India, and has one sister who lives in California.
Growing up, Rishad could be found in a book store reading books.
He immigrated to Chicago in 1980 with a BS in Mathematics to follow in the footsteps of his father by getting an MBA at the University of Chicago.
Rishad Tobaccowala is the author of Restoring the Soul of Business: Staying Human in the Age of Data. His parents loved books and reading as he did, and he always wanted to write one, and he finally has. He’s also the Chief Growth Officer of Publicis Groupe, an 80,000-person marketing company.
Rishad has spent his entire 37-year career at this one company in a wide spectrum of roles spanning advertising, media, strategy, digital and data. As the world changed and the company changed, Rishad re-invented both himself and the company.
In addition to his two grown daughters, his greatest pride are the hundreds of people he has had the opportunity to train, mentor, and guide over the years who are making an impact all over the world and to most of whom he remains connected.
Rishad currently resides in Chicago with his wife, Rekha.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @rishad to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“The soul of a company is something that integrates the spreadsheet and the story.” – Click to Tweet
“Companies that fixate on the short-term tend to implode in the middle to long term.” – Click to Tweet
“Companies should at least look after it’s talent and not just its customers.” – Click to Tweet
“We may be losing the plot by forgetting the human, the culture, and the storytelling.” – Click to Tweet
“Do customers find your service people interesting or do they find that interac...]]>
Fast Leader Show Podcast 39:04
259: Susan Fowler: Let go of the junk food motivation https://www.fastleader.net/susanfowler2/ Wed, 08 Jan 2020 08:20:40 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=16243 https://www.fastleader.net/susanfowler2/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/susanfowler2/feed/ 0 <p>Susan Fowler Show Notes Page Susan Fowler shares new research on the science of motivation. When she shared these findings with the CEO of one of the world’s largest financial institutions and John Calipari, University of Kentucky Men's Basketball Coach, they immediately changed how they led their people. Susan Fowler was born and raised in [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/susanfowler2/">259: Susan Fowler: Let go of the junk food motivation</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Susan Fowler Show Notes Page

Susan Fowler shares new research on the science of motivation. When she shared these findings with the CEO of one of the world’s largest financial institutions and John Calipari, University of Kentucky Men’s Basketball Coach, they immediately changed how they led their people.

Susan Fowler was born and raised in Enid, Oklahoma, and raised in Denver, Colorado as the oldest of four children.

Susan Fowler discovered the power of teaching at an early age when her sister, Terri, was born with spina bifida, paralyzed from the waist down and retarded from water on the brain. Doctors explained that if Terri lived, she would never have the mentality beyond that of a 3-year-old.

Terri did live, and Susan couldn’t help but notice a spark in her sister’s bright blue eyes. Defying the doctors’ diagnoses, Susan used rather innovative techniques to teach her sister to read and write. Terri became the first handicapped child integrated into the Colorado school system. Doctors asked her parents: How did Terri learn to read and write? Their answer: Our 12-year-old daughter, Susan.

Susan has never stopped teaching—or leaning. Her motto is “I teach what I most need to learn.” She is the lead developer of product lines taught globally to tens of thousands of people through the Ken Blanchard Companies, including Situational Self Leadership and Optimal Motivation.

Susan is the author of seven books, including the bestselling Self Leadership and The One Minute Manager with Ken Blanchard and Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work… And What Does, and Master Your Motivation: Three Scientific Truths for Achieving your Goals.

Susan lives and works with her husband, Drea Zigarmi, in sunny San Diego where she is also an adjunct professor in the University of San Diego’s Masters of Science in Executive Leadership program and a rotating board member of Angel Faces, a nonprofit group dedicated to teaching adolescent girls how to cope with transfiguring burns and trauma.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @fowlersusann to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“I’ve got a whole shelf full of books on happiness where they don’t even define what they mean by happiness.” – Click to Tweet

“Happiness is not the end goal, the reason you are feeling a sense of well-being is what we need to be paying attention to.” – Click to Tweet

“When you are extrinsically motivated, it erodes or undermines your intrinsic motivation.” – Click to Tweet

“Intrinsic Motivation is not additive” – Click to Tweet

“The simplistic concept of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation is misleading to people.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s different ways of being motivated and boiling it down to just intrinsic and extrinsic motivation is too simplistic.” – Click to Tweet

“One of the misnomers of all of these engagement surveys is that what so many of those are actually measuring is job satisfaction.” – Click to Tweet

“Measuring satisfaction at work is not a true reflection of engagement.” – Click to Tweet

“Employee work passion is the end state, motivation is the fuel that gets you there.” – Click to Tweet

“Junk food motivation leads to dissatisfaction, but optimal motivation fuels employee work passion.” – Click to Tweet

“Suboptimal motivation is the junk food of motivation.” – Click to Tweet

“The optimal ways of being motivated is when you’re motivated because you can align with whatever you’re doing with an important value that you have.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s really important for us to identify the type of motivation we’re experiencing.” – Click to Tweet

“The greatest influencers of our values are the people we surround ourselves with.” – Click to Tweet

“Values are choices you make based on your beliefs.” – Click to Tweet

“People are hungry to understand, what is my motivation and how do I shift my motivation if it’s suboptimal.” – Click to Tweet

“Motivation is at the heart of everything you do and everything you don’t do that you wish you did.” – Click to Tweet

“When you understand the true nature of motivation, then you do become resilient.” – Click to Tweet

“Create choice, connection, and competence into your life on a daily basis.” – Click to Tweet

“You don’t have to be a master, but you need to feel growth and learning every day.” – Click to Tweet

“What did you learn today that’s going to help you be better tomorrow?” – Click to Tweet

“Every day I’m reveling in what I learn.” – Click to Tweet

“The magic happens when choice, connection, and competence come together.” – Click to Tweet

“The quickest, shortest, fastest route to optimal motivation is being in a mindful state.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s almost impossible to be mindful and not experience optimal motivation.” – Click to Tweet

“Mindfulness is the greatest tool for self-regulation.” – Click to Tweet

“Let’s let go of the junk food motivation that most organizations are feeding us.” – Click to Tweet

“Fatal distractions are anything that erode our choice, connection, and competence and that’s what happens with bonuses, raises, incentives, bribes, power, and status.” – Click to Tweet

“Take care of your internal understandings so that you can better influence others.” – Click to Tweet

“Most leaders are acting out of their own needs, not the needs of their followers.” – Click to Tweet

“You got to get out of your own need and get into the needs of the people you lead.” – Click to Tweet

“Be more open to saying yes to other people’s information.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Susan Fowler shares new research on the science of motivation. When she shared these findings with the CEO of one of the world’s largest financial institutions and John Calipari, University of Kentucky Men’s Basketball Coach, they immediately changed how they led their people.

Advice for others

Be more open to saying yes to other people’s information.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

It’s always ego.

Best Leadership Advice

Take care of your internal understanding so that you can better influence others.

Secret to Success

Spending an hour each week to get better at what I do.

Best tools in business or life

A series of apps and tools that help me to be more mindful.

Recommended Reading

Self Leadership and The One Minute Manager

Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work… And What Does

Master Your Motivation: Three Scientific Truths for Achieving your Goals.

Feedback (and Other Dirty Words): Why We Fear It, How to Fix It

Contacting Susan Fowler

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-fowler-955a174/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/fowlersusann

Website: https://susanfowler.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

What’s your MO survey?

Call Center Coach

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

259 Susan Fowler

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay, fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody who ha who’s on the show today who’s been on before and that’s really a rarity on the best leaders show and why is that? Because I

 

Jim Rembach: (00:09)

thanks. She’s absolutely brilliant and I’m sure you will too. Susan Pollard was born and raised in Eden, Enid, Oklahoma, and raised in Denver, Colorado. As the oldest of four children. Susan discovered the power of teaching at an early age when her sister Terry was born with spina bifida, paralyzed from the waist down and retarded from water on the brain. Doctors explained that if Terry lived, she would never have the mental mid. The mentality beyond that of a three year old, Terry did live and Susan couldn’t help but notice a spark in her sister’s bright blue eyes define the doctor’s diagnosis. Susan used rather innovative techniques to teach her sister to read and write. Terry became the first handicap child integrated into the Colorado school system. Doctors asked her parents, how did Terry learn to read and write their answer? Our 12 year old daughter, Susan. Susan has never stopped teaching or learning.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:04)

Her motto is, I teach what I most need to learn. She is the lead developer of product lines, taught globally to tens of thousands of people through the Ken Blanchard companies, including situational self-leadership and optimal motivation. Susan is the author of seven books, including the bestselling self-leadership and one minute manager with Ken Blanchard and why motivating people doesn’t work. And what does and master your motivation. Three scientific truce for achieving your goals. Susan lives and works with her husband, Dre as a Garvey in sunny San Diego where she is an adjunct professor in the university of San Diego’s master’s of science in executive leadership program and a rotating board member of angel faces, a nonprofit group dedicated to teaching adolescent girls how to cope with transfiguring burns and trauma. Susan follower, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Susan Fowler: (02:00)

Oh, I am. But that was emotional. It was interesting as you were reading that I um, I got teary-eyed, uh, thinking about this journey, so thank you Jim.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:11)

Alright, you’re welcome. And it’s, and it is such an honor to have you on the show. I mean, we have had such a great discussion prior to this interview, but I, I know this is going to be great now. I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you and like I said, you’ve been on the show before. However, tell us what your current passion is now so that we can get to know you even better.

 

Susan Fowler: (02:31)

Well, you know, I mean, my passion is still is motivation, but it’s around getting to the other side of complexity because what I’m really involved with is the science of motivation. And there is just such compelling research out there. I’ve, I’ve been a part of the academic community. I go to the, uh, academic conferences. I actually in 2018, uh, excuse me, 2019, my gosh, uh, into this year, um, published my first singly authored academic journal article on rethinking leadership competencies. Given what we know about motivation science. Uh, we published a paper on motivation and power and what leadership power does to people’s motivation. So it’s an ongoing, uh, it’s research, but also then saying, wow, okay, that’s fine. An academic journal, but what are you supposed to do with it? You know, what can the everyday person do with it every day. And so that’s where my passion is, is making really compelling, complex science accessible and that we can take advantage of it.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:33)

Well, and I think you bring up a really important point because oftentimes academics, you know, are known as just being mirror theorists, right? I mean, how do I take these ideas and these thoughts and this thought provocation and these creative ideas and apply it. And that’s critically important. And in some of the book you talk about, you know, first of all, identifying the truths, you know, behind motivation. And so when you start talking about those truths, how is that different from happiness?

 

Susan Fowler: (03:59)

Well, I love that question because there is such a, I guess a focus on happiness in our society and I’ve always thought of happiness is something that happens. Uh, it’s, it’s outside of your control. It’s, it’s something that if the circumstances are right, I can be happy. Whereas I think there’s a real distinction between happiness and joy. Peace, a sense of wellbeing. And I know it depends on how you define it, but I’ve got a whole shelf full of books on happiness where they don’t even define what they mean by happiness. So I could be happy that I beat someone, uh, because it gives me a sense of power and status. I could be happy that I got the corner office. Um, and that means more money because I’m so money motivated by money. And the reason I’m motivated by money is because it’s going to buy me more power and status. And so the reason for your happiness is crucial. And I don’t see that distinction being made in a lot of the work or people that are talking about happiness. So happiness is not the end goal. The reason that you are feeling a sense of wellbeing is what we need to be paying attention.

 

Jim Rembach: (05:14)

Well, and with that, you know, we start talking about these motivations and you know, there’s somebody who’s been studying this motivation science for a long time. Dr Edward D C really a pioneer in it. And he talks about good motivation and bad motivation. And he mentions how bad motivation actually spoils. Good motivation. What is he meaning?

 

Susan Fowler: (05:34)

Yeah. Um, so ever DC is kind of the father of intrinsic motivation and he’s become a wonderful mentor and someone whose work I really want to honor, uh, also his, um, colleague Richard Ryan, Dr. Richard Ryan, the two of them, um, are really the leaders of the self determination theory, um, academic community. And what they’ve proven is that when you are extrinsically motivated, it erodes or undermines your intrinsic motivation. But the problem is so, so let me just say this motivation is not additive. What I, I hear a lot of executive saying for example, is, well, yeah, you know, we’re gonna, we want to focus on intrinsic motivation, but we also want to give people extrinsic motivation because that’s what they expect. So we’re going to have, you know, incentives and bonuses and trips to The Bahamas and all that stuff. Um, in addition to people’s intrinsic motivation, like the love of selling or whatever.

 

Susan Fowler: (06:34)

But the two don’t, they’re not additive. Um, one actually erodes the other. And this is why the academic community is moving away from the simplistic concept of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation because it’s misleading to people that if you think that the only, there’s only good and bad motivation and the good motivation is intrinsic. What if that doesn’t work? What if you’re not intrinsically motivated like myself to go or I wasn’t to go through security at the airport. Does that mean that the only way I can go through the security is through extrinsic motivation? So what the science shows is that there’s different ways of being motivated and boiling it down to just intrinsic and extrinsic is too simplistic and actually defeats the whole science of motivation.

 

Jim Rembach: (07:23)

Well, okay. So, and I think you hit on something there on why this conversation and why this understanding and why this Reacher research is so critically important. Um, because I mean, when we start talking about this whole employee engagement issue, I mean, it’s a global problem, right? Yeah. Um, you know, and, and so when you start looking at people who are responsible, you know, for the work and the development of others, they got to know these things and they also need to understand about motivational junk food. You talk about that in the book.

 

Susan Fowler: (07:57)

Yeah. So, so let me just touch on something you said about engagement. Um, one of the misnomers is, and even the biggest organizations in the world that are selling all of these engagement surveys and people are doing all of these um, task forces to improve engagement. What so many of those are actually measuring is satisfaction, job satisfaction. And the reason that’s an issue is because, you know, like you have your Thanksgiving dinner and after Thanksgiving dinner you are satisfied, you’re satiated. How much energy do you have to really go over and beyond to go out and exercise or do a project? You know, you just want to lay on the couch and take advantage of, you know, that lazy moment. So measuring satisfaction at work is not a true reflection of engagement. And I’m going to do a little bit of, this is going to sound very self serving, but my husband, dr Dre is a army, um, has won the cutting edge leadership, excuse me, cutting edge research award three times for his work on employee work passion.

 

Susan Fowler: (09:06)

And all of this is coming back to motivation in just a second. But employee work passion is like the upper end of what a lot of people call engagement and what he’s measuring as people’s intentions. And those intentions are the indicators of what our behavior is going to be. And so he’s looking at, you know, are we, um, intending to perform at above expected standards? Are we intending to endorse the organization, stay in the organization? There’s five intention, so I won’t go through all of them. They’re my first book. But those intentions, um, are really reflective of employee work passion. Here’s what we know about the connection between motivation and employee work. Passion, employee work. Passion is this end state. It’s a place of being. Motivation is the fuel that gets you there. So junk food motivation, which is prevalent in organizations leads to dissatisfied, dissatisfaction or disengagement, but optimal motivation. The good kind of motivation leads you to employee work passion. That’s what fuels employee work passion.

 

Susan Fowler: (10:11)

Okay. So you started talking about suboptimal. I know, and I said good and bad, but let’s, let’s go with optimal and suboptimal. So suboptimal motivation is what’s considered the junk food motivation. So it’s, it’s when, for example, you’re overwhelmed and you don’t even know which way is up. Uh, and so you check out. It’s, it’s, that’s what’s happens to a lot of people when we’re going through change initiatives in our organizations. It’s like, just, just wake me up when it’s over. You know? So that’s like the disinterested, motivational outlook. Um, and then there’s, um, um, external motivation, which is where somebody is doing what they’re doing because they are aiming for a prize. It’s, it’s for the external reward. It’s more a tangible reward or maybe they intangible reward, like I was talking about power and status or image. And then there’s imposed motivation where you’re doing what you’re doing because you’re afraid of what’s gonna happen.

 

Susan Fowler: (11:07)

If you don’t, so it’s still something you feel like you have to do. You’re obligated to do it. There’s pressure, there’s tension, there’s stress involved. So anytime you feel that kind of disconnection, you feel the, you know, wow, I’m glad I’m getting paid or I’m glad I’m getting some kind of reward for it, or wow, I’m afraid what’s going to happen if I don’t? All of those are considered suboptimal ways of being motivated. The optimal ways of being motivated is when you’re motivated because you can align whatever you’re doing with an important value that you have, which means you need to have values, uh, and know what they are. Um, and, and then, um, integrated motivation when you’re doing something because it, it’s a self-defining activity. It’s who you are. It’s a deeper sense of purpose and inherent motivation, which is actually the most intrinsic of all of the motivational outlooks. When you’re doing something for the pure sheer reward of doing it without any other promises, it’s just, you don’t even know why you like it or enjoy it. It’s like playing a video game. You just like it. It’s fun. So, um, those, those are the, um, what we call optimal motivational outlooks. So it’s really important for us to identify the type of motivation we’re experiencing because it matters.

 

Jim Rembach: (12:23)

Okay. Well, to me when you’re saying that, I start going into thinking about that whole self-discovery component and how we’re just horrible at it. And then you also have these issues associated with the generational shifts and changes. I mean, you know, the values, even though that I’m instilling in my kids are going to be quite different, you know, then the values that I have, although because they’ve been exposed to them early, they may get to mind as they get older. I mean, all of that maturation cycle. Uh, but I start, I start thinking about Rick Miller who was on the show, who talked about finding your core four. And it’s really that, so talking about those values and talking about the things that are really most important to me and then doing that alignment work.

 

Susan Fowler: (13:02)

Well, you know what I love about what you’ve just said, Jim, is a lot of people don’t understand this, but the whole idea behind generational values is what we call programmed values. So if you’re a certain age, like I am your baby boomer, other baby boomers, we grew up in the cold war, we grew up with certain, um, uh, similar experiences like we went into SA inside a bank. So we didn’t trust ATM machines, you know, so, um, our values were developed based on our cohort experience. Um, I know that parents values are really, really important because as you said, we might come back to them, but the greatest, um, influencers of our values are the kids we hang out with. It’s the people we surround ourselves with and kids spend more time with their friends than they actually do with their parents. And so, um, all this generational talk about values, our program values, what we’re talking about and what, you know, you’re just talking about with the fork in the core for our, what we call it, developed values. Values are choices you make based on your beliefs. So what I’m encouraging people to do is to explore their beliefs and develop their values. Um, so that, that’s what they’re making decisions by every day are values that they are consciously aware of.

 

Jim Rembach: (14:23)

Okay. So then that gets us to where in the book you were talking about, um, outlooks and outlook shifting. Um, so tell us a little bit about that.

 

Susan Fowler: (14:32)

Okay. So the six different types of motivation I was mentioning earlier, each one of those is actually called a motivational outlook. So you have the disinterested, external and imposed motivational outlooks. Those are suboptimal. And then you have the aligned, integrated and inherent motivational outlooks. And those are optimal. And those are reflected the spectrum of motivation model that is in my book, both books. Um, but the idea is to be able to shift between sub optimal and optimal. So that is what I’m trying to teach people. And that’s, that’s really where the bulk of my work has been in organizations. And like in 2019, for example, I did a seven country 25 day tour. Um, I’ve been, that did not include one of my trips to Russia, vendor Russia five times now talking about these ideas because people are hungry, hungry to understand what is my motivation and how do I shift my motivation if it’s suboptimal, you know, motivation is at the heart of everything you do and everything you don’t do that you wish you did. And so if this is a skill that we really need to understand in practice,

 

Jim Rembach: (15:48)

well, and as you say that, I start thinking that people may have this false sense that if I do that it’s going to eliminate friction and I would dare to say that it is not the case. It actually helps you to the dress and then be more resilient when friction.

 

Susan Fowler: (16:02)

You know, you just gave me goosebumps, um, at the, um, at the, uh, self-determination conference where there were 800 scientists presenting their work. And I was just like, you know, a kid in a candy store. Uh, I presented at the conference three years ago. Um, and every, every time I go, I’m just so inspired by the work that’s being done. And one of the big conversations is about all of these kind of trendy concepts. Like you gotta have grit. You know, you’ve gotta be resilient. And I’m reasonably, this isn’t trendy, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a concept that people think is independent of motivation. But the whole idea is that when you understand the true nature of motivation, then you do become resilient. So in my book, I talk about those three scientific truths and those three scientific truths. When you create them in your life, the outcome, the byproduct, the, the end result is grit, resilience, trust, all kinds of things we talk about are the byproduct of actually creating these three scientific truths.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:17)

And as you say that, I start thinking about my oldest son who is a, he’s a darn iron head headed. And so for me it’s like, okay, I have to keep reminding myself that it’s really an age and prefrontal lobe development thing is that it’s going to serve you well when you get older. Once you, once you find out what your core four is, I mean, you’re going to be convicted and you’re going to be very resilient. I said, but right now you’re just a pain in my rear

 

Susan Fowler: (17:44)

little Gretta on the cover of time magazine is person of the year in 2019 kind of takes that argument away.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:52)

There are some, you know, societal issues with the whole, you know, uh, physiological development. I mean, you know, and girls, you know, get to that point of, of pre-roll prefrontal lobe development sooner than boys. I mean, there’s this whole other, you know, um, biological issue associated with this motivation signs. I mean, it’s, I think what we probably need to do is look at what do we need to do at the younger age, you know, in order to help them, you know, give this, you know, issue of understanding my core for doing the alignment and creating something that you call a credo. Tell us a little bit about the credo.

 

Susan Fowler: (18:28)

Well, I would just like people to really think about how they integrate and we haven’t actually talked about those three scientific truths yet. So it’s, it’s really a credo is something that you consciously Chorale your values and purposely, um, determine how you’re going to integrate them into your life. On a daily basis. Um, in my book I talk about Phil Reynolds who, you know, shared his credo, um, after a near death experience. And I just had dinner with Phil last week and that he still, you know, I’m on guard. I mean, when you have a brain aneurism, it’s not just something you get over and then life goes on as normal. And so his credo is truly what, what enables him to get up every day and live a life committed to doing good work. And so, um, in the book it just talks about how you write a credo and here are the things you’re going to do. Here’s how you’re going to create a, and I’ll just go ahead and say the three scientific truths you’re going to create choice, connection and competence into your life on a daily basis. Because the research shows that it’s not like you just have one glorious motivational moment. It’s that you have a number of frequency of motivationally, um, optimal experiences on a daily basis. And, and your credo allows you to do that

 

Jim Rembach: (19:59)

well. And you talk about, okay, so those three truths, you said more time, those choice,

 

Susan Fowler: (20:03)

choice, connection and competence.

 

Jim Rembach: (20:07)

And I, and I think when you start talking about the competence, there was another thing that stood out to me quite clear when we start talking about some of the things that we do to ourselves in regards to competence. So I think it’s important that you explain competence in this model.

 

Susan Fowler: (20:22)

Yeah. Competence is our belief that we can be effective at whatever the challenges before us. A lot of people think that competence means it’s mastery. Like you’ve already mastered something, but motivation science says you don’t have to be a master, but you need to feel growth and learning every day. You need to feel that you’re making progress. Um, so you think about, you know, a child who’s constantly asking why, why, why, why, why do they ask why? Well, the reason is because they love to learn and grow. And one of the things you and I were talking about before we started our formal conversation here is what happens in our education system. Um, and, and then it continues into adulthood where we start externally rewarding children for learning. And because motivation is not additive, when we, we reward children for doing something they already love doing, cause it’s part of our nature.

 

Susan Fowler: (21:23)

It’s, it’s, it’s something we need in order to even thrive. We erode the very thing that we were trying to, you know, um, expand. And so it’s a matter of understanding, um, that competence means what do we, how do we learn and grow is, so if you’re a parent, if you just ask your children every day, what did you learn today? Tell me about, you know, what, what did you do in geography and what did you learn? Or what did you learn in math today? Or, you know, you had a lot of conversations with kids today. Did you learn anything? What was it? But then imagine if you’re a leader, a manager, and at the end of every day, instead of saying, okay, what did you do today? How, how much closer are you to your goal? What are your numbers? What have you asked? What did you learn today that’s going to help you be better tomorrow? You know? And then of course, the ultimate, which is in master, your motivation is we need to ask ourselves that question. So every day I’m, I’m reveling and what I learned, I mean, my 78 year old a husband last night, we’re were talking about, um, some stuff we had read yesterday and we, we always try to get a walk in everyday because that’s where we share what we’ve learned. And it’s exhilarating. It’s, it’s absolutely a natural high to talk about what you’re learning.

 

Jim Rembach: (22:40)

Well, and as you were talking about that, I started thinking about Carol Dweck work and her book ma at, right. And you talk a lot about, you know, this whole issue of focusing in on some of those motivations. And it seems to me like there’s a connection with that work too.

 

Susan Fowler: (22:53)

Well, and, and here’s, here’s the thing. There are so many individual pieces of research and work, um, that are really valid, like Carol Dweck work on mindset. The issue I have is that it’s only dealing with one of the three psychological needs. And what science shows us is we need to have all three of these. If you have competence but you don’t have any sense of choice, then that’s going to be more than frustrating. If you have choice but you don’t have any sense of competence, you are going to be so frustrated and, and, and feel overwhelmed. If you have choice and competence without connection, if all of your competence and all the choices you’re making don’t lead to anywhere meaningful, if they don’t give you a sense of um, uh, connected NUS to the greater if, if you’re not working on behalf of the welfare of all, if you don’t feel that, um, you’re living your values, your purpose, and um, interpersonally resonating and feeling like you belong, then your choice in your competence don’t mean much. So all three of these scientific truths, and that’s what I write about in my book is it’s like they’re elixirs. Each one of those elixirs is wonderful in and of itself, but the magic happens when all three of those elixirs come together and you’re creating choice, connection and competence. I’m on a goal or just in your life in general.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:23)

Okay. Well then with that in the book, I think it is your enabler or your tool to help in all those three areas is really mindfulness because I mean you dedicate a lot of about mindfulness. So is that how that fits in or does it fit in a different way?

 

Susan Fowler: (24:38)

Well, it’s fascinating to me anyway that um, you know, a lot of neuroscience and brain research, um, around motivation is being done. Um, initially a lot of the neuroscience, uh, was misinterpreting the, the work because what they found was that, um, like if people get rewards, like external rewards, if they win a prize, that it would light up the pleasure part of the brain. And so because they were relating pleasure and rewards, people interpreted that rewards were good. I have to say that even the neuro leadership Institute that had written a lot about that connection between rewards and pleasure has written a white paper refuting the old idea and embracing it based on the science that I’m using in my, in my books. And so, um, what we, what we really need to understand is that, um, these three, um, elixirs are so, so to speak that that work together that, that when they are, um, I don’t know exactly the terminology you use here, but when that part of your brain, when they do neuroscience studies, when that part of your brain is lit up, where you’re actually in an optimal motivation state of wellbeing, um, where you’re experiencing choice, connection and competence, it’s the same part of your brain that lights up when you’re mindful.

 

Susan Fowler: (26:06)

So the quickest, shortest, fastest route to optimal motivation is being in a mindful state is mindfulness. It’s almost impossible to be mindful and not experience optimal motivation. And so, um, mindfulness is the greatest tool for self regulation. And if you look at the spectrum of motivation model, what we say is that, um, the, the model is both descriptive. It describes motivation, uh, based on choice, connection and competence in those six motivational outlooks. But it’s also prescriptive. It says if you have suboptimal motivation, the way you shift is by self-regulating and self regulation. The greatest tool is mindfulness. That was a long winded answer, but there’s just so much research that validates that mindfulness and motivation have a wonderful interconnection.

 

Jim Rembach: (27:03)

Well, and even what you were saying, um, for me, I started even thinking about a piece of research that came out or in regards to that whole mind mapping issue. And what they’re finding more about is that that whole centers, you know, of activity that light up that even has been very misinterpreted. Um, as we learn more and more so because the Maki is a map and it starts accessing information from a lot of different sources depending on what it is. Uh, depending on, uh, our genetics, the PA, I mean, there’s a whole lot of factors that go into it that could cause us to misread things.

 

Susan Fowler: (27:35)

So I love neuroscience. What I get really frustrated by is the interpretation of neuroscience that makes, that jumps to giant conclusions. You know, here’s one. Um, we talk, we hear a lot about, there’s only so much energy or capacity for us to, you know, you get into cognitive overload. However, they’re counter studies that show that when you’re an optimal motivation, you have endless supply. It’s like you’re tapped into this source that is generating positive, sustainable energy. And so the problem with happiness, the problem with, um, you know, external motivation or the Skinnerian model of, uh, developing habits is that they’re short lived. That you need not just these spikes like you get with junk food motivation. It’s like when you have a sugar high, what you need is the kind of motivation that sustainable over time. And um, and, and so there’s a difference between junk food motivation, like when you eat a candy bar or drink a cup of coffee or drink a Cola versus when you need energy, you eat a handful of almonds, you’re creating energy and both situations. But there’s a qualitative difference in the energy. And that’s the message I’m trying to get across is let’s, let’s let go of the junk food motivation that most organizations are actually feeding us. And let’s learn how to, um, ourselves shift to health, food motivation, optimal motivation.

 

Jim Rembach: (29:13)

Well, and we also know talking about one of the hazards and you’re going to talk about a couple more, but one of the hazards that will kill all of this, all of the energy, everything, I mean, all of your motivations. I mean all of it is lack of sleep.

 

Susan Fowler: (29:25)

Oh, isn’t that the truth? I, I, um, I actually have about half a shelf on sleep deprivation, you know, sleeping. Um, and I was very careful not to wake my husband up before his seven hours of sleep this morning. Um, yeah. You know, even, um, athletic, uh, forgive me, I just, I didn’t get enough sleep. I don’t remember. I think it’s the NFL or the NBA maybe both have now made it like part of their training regimen that you need to get eight to 10 hours of sleep for recovery. So before they were making these kids, you know, eat certain ways and do all these exercises, all this physical training and sleep was never an issue. Well now they know it is an issue and it’s no, they’re actually embedding it into the training programs.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:14)

Yeah. And that’s why we should put ’em our intern doctors in the ER rooms through four, four, four days with no sleep. Right?

 

Susan Fowler: (30:22)

Yeah, exactly. Or, or pilots and you know, it’s just crazy, isn’t it?

 

Jim Rembach: (30:26)

Oh, that’s too funny. Okay. But there’s other hazards. You mentioned hazards in the book. We just covered this one. It’s a key and critical one. What other hazards, Steve?

 

Susan Fowler: (30:33)

Well, I actually called them fatal distractions and fatal distractions are like the bright shiny objects that erode those three truths that eliminate our sense of choice, um, undermine our sense of connection and actually forge our competence. And so just as a simple example, I know I’ve mentioned it already, but let me just explain why this is so important is, um, when we, for example, or motivate, I’m just going to use dieting as an example because most of us have had some experience with either trying to lose weight or just trying to eat more healthy. So what happens is as soon as we go on an eating regimen or, or what’s called a diet, what happens is we automatically erode our sense of choice. So we think, Oh, I can’t eat that muffin, or I can’t do this, or I have to do that. And so we’re really feeling it.

 

Susan Fowler: (31:30)

We’re in this imposed motivational outlook because we can’t do certain things. So we’re motivated externally by our image. Like we’re going to our high school reunion, um, or we’re imposed motivation because our doctor has threatened if we don’t get healthy, we’re going to suffer. Um, but then as soon as we take on a diet or a particular eating regimen, we throw ourselves into the imposed motivational outlook because we can’t eat something. And then we think it’s all about the muffin. So what is the one thing when you can’t eat a muffin or a Krispy Kreme donut, what is the one thing you want more than anything in the world,

 

Jim Rembach: (32:06)

if that,

 

Susan Fowler: (32:08)

yeah, you want that muffin. You want that donut. It’s not about the muffin, it’s about your sense of choice. And so what, you know, part of the skill of motivation is learning to say,

 

Jim Rembach: (32:19)

I could eat that muffin.

 

Susan Fowler: (32:21)

I could choose to eat it. I can also choose not to eat it. Or I could choose to have a bite and not eat the rest of it. And so the trick is simply asking ourselves, what choices do we have? What choices have I made in the past? And then reflect on how you felt about those. Um, a lot of times I will like want a cookie. Like I’ll be honest with you. I ordered, um, two dozen of the best cookies in the world from a place in San Diego called the [inaudible]. I mean, there was it, they arrived last night. I just needed a little something sweet. I opened up those cookies and I ha I did. I went through this. I said I could choose to eat this whole cookie. I could choose to eat these three cookies. I just went through the whole choices. And in the end I said, you know what?

 

Susan Fowler: (33:07)

I’m about to go to bed. I’m going to choose to just taste it. I tasted it. It was delicious. I wrapped it up and I put it in the freezer. Um, so that’s, that’s choice. And so a fatal distraction around dieting that also erodes our sense of connection is that we’re, we, we lose touch of ourselves. We beat ourselves up or we have a false sense of our values. But if I say the reason I’m losing weight is because I value health. Now, if you’ve never really thought about health, um, if you’ve never really thought about your values around it, then that’s not going to be a tool that you can use. My husband was recently going on a, um, a diet, and when I would have these motivation conversations with them, I would said, I said, okay, what’s meaningful to you about this diet?

 

Susan Fowler: (33:58)

And you know what he said? And one of the conversations he said, I’ve always been an athlete and now that I’m older, I don’t feel athletic anymore. And that makes me sad. He says, I want to be more congruent with a person I think I am. And so he started eating healthy because he saw himself as an athlete, not someone who’s going to compete every day or anything like that. But anyway, it was, it was, um, a self-defining activity. So that’s, you know, that’s the integrated motivation. And then finally, the fatal distraction of dieting, um, erodes our sense of competence if we don’t continue to learn. So we need to keep asking ourselves, wow, okay, what did I learn from the way I ate today? What did I learn from the choices I made? And, um, one day, again having this motivation conversation with my husband and I said, so what’d you learn today?

 

Susan Fowler: (34:49)

He goes, you know, I learned that, um, I should eat red onions instead of white onions. I said, why is that? And he goes, I don’t know. But he started ordering red onions and his on Letson salads and everything else. And finally, he, he did the research and he found out that red onions have less sugar content than white onions. Now, this is years ago, to this day, he eats red onions and he knows that they have less sugar and he’s constantly making that better choice because he felt so good learning something as he’s going through that, um, that, that quote unquote diet. So the fatal distractions are anything that are Roy, um, erode our choice, connection and competence. And that’s what happens with bonuses, raises, incentives, bribes, um, power status, all of things are fatal distractions.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:39)

Well, and as you were saying that, I started thinking that one of the biggest fatal distractions on ourselves is the words that we use. So I mean, even knew you when you were describing that it wasn’t, I can’t have that donut. It w you know, I can choose not to. I mean, so I, it’s a totally different perspective. And so even though I’d be thinking it in my head, right, um, I need to galvanize it by getting it to come out of my mouth and saying it to myself. Jim, you can choose not to have that done and say, Jim, you can’t have that donut. Or even when someone asks words, you’re like, I need to say, well, I’m choosing not to have.

 

Susan Fowler: (36:13)

Oh, I love that. I love that. Uh, I was, I did a presentation, I had an event at the university of San Diego this week and I was doing a book signing and afterwards, um, and it was running a little bit later than everybody thought cause everyone stayed around. It was really exciting. And there was this man, he goes, he says, Oh, I stood Aline for like an hour and he says, I need to get home because I have to go to the gym at five 45 in the morning. I go, Oh, you have to. And he looked at me, he says, I choose to, I said, yeah, you choose to. And he goes, you’re right, I’m choosing to go to the gym at five 45 in the morning it. And he admitted it totally shifted his frame in that moment.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:56)

Most definitely. Well, you know, talking with you, you have so much energy, so much passion and you know, all of us need that in order for us to be able to address these difficult decisions and these difficult issues that we’re all dealing with. And one of the ways that we do that through the show or in quotes, we use quotes. So since the last time we’ve talked, I’m sure you have it, a lot of more reading and research and things that you’ve learned. So right now I’d like to ask, is there a quote or two that motivates you that you could share with us?

 

Susan Fowler: (37:26)

Well, I think, um, the first time we spoke, my quote was, I teach what I most need to learn. And that still is very, very prevalent in my life because if I can’t be an authentic representation of what I’m hoping others will learn from the science of motivation, um, you know, then why am I in this business? It’s, it’s like I need to be authentic. So that’s really important to me. But I have to tell you, given the times in today’s world, um, and I’ll probably get emotional about this, but I realized that a lot of my negative thinking about what’s going on in the world is only contributing to the negativity. And I decided to try to be the light that if you see evil or you see darkness or you see things that you think are wrong instead of complaining about it, because the only way to fight darkness is not with more darkness. The only way to fight darkness is with light. And so be the light. That’s my daily mantra.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:33)

Wow. Thanks for sharing that. And you know, we also share stories you share, you’ve shared a ton just as going through this and you shared a story in your first episode about, you know, your sister and, and I’m, I don’t want you to ask, uh, I’m not gonna ask you to share that story again cause I’d like you to help us with a particular story. When you met up with either an executive or somebody who was in a very big position of power and was stuck in their mindset and their thinking about motivating people that you were able to turn, can you remember a time when you did that?

 

Susan Fowler: (39:08)

Did you tell me you were going to ask me this question? Wow, this is, put him on the spot. But you know, it’s interesting the first, um, and I’m not going to use the name cause I signed a nondisclosure, but it’s probably one of the, yeah, it’s a big moment in my life. I’m the CEO of a major financial institution. Like one of the top five in the world happened to get a copy of my book Reddit and said, I need to speak with this woman. So they fly me to New York and I’m in the 50th floor penthouse office suite of this CEO and he just wants to talk for an hour. And, and I start asking him what his interest is in it. And I wanted to see if he thought these ideas might manipulate. He might be able to use these ideas to manipulate, um, so they could make more money.

 

Susan Fowler: (40:00)

Um, and his financial advisors could make more money. And so I asked, started asking him a series of questions and through the series of questions I could see him starting to realize that using these ideas, he didn’t have to use it to manipulate. You could use them to help people be more authentic. And the byproduct would be results of byproduct would be what they were looking for. And so he did two things in that hour. One was he made a decision and he asked his corporate communications person to go through all of their communications, internal communications, and take out the word drive because they’re always driving for results, drive for this drive for that. And he realized that that word drive was creating an environment, a culture that was driven by external rewards. And then he asked me to speak to his 200 top financial advisors and we actually did a work around helping them to understand their choices, connection and competence related to their work.

 

Susan Fowler: (41:11)

So that’s just one example of, but then I just had another one I’ll just show really, really fast. I’m sorry, but this was really exciting. A couple of weeks ago, right before the start of the college basketball season, I went to work with John Calipari at the university of Kentucky, the Wildcats. And I worked with John and his coaching staff. And that afternoon they literally changed the, they ran their training session that afternoon, their film session and that ended that week. They went out and they beat Michigan state and we’re number one in the country, not because of that session. And since then they’ve had some fluctuations. They’ve got a really young team. But that was really fun to see coaches who were so interested in helping their kids develop in the right way and not feel the pressure of winning and getting to the NBA and all of the other pressures that these young people feel. That was really rewarding.

 

Jim Rembach: (42:06)

Well, and thanks for sharing that because, um, I actually coached middle school baseball for those that there and I just went to a pitching clinic at Duke university and I met up with a couple of, uh, college coaches because for me, my goal, you know, I just went in that and I don’t have to work anymore is that I can actually, you know, be uh, an assistant coach, unpaid assistant, you know, at some university somewhere because that’s how these guys really run their programs is by unpaid assistance. The MCA AA only gives division one schools, three paid coaches and division two and three schools, two paid coaches. You can’t run a program with that and you just can’t do it. That’s really cool. Yeah, I’m looking forward to that and it’s a lot of your wisdoms and as well as others that I’ve had on a show that are going to help me be a better coach because I always talk about leading, you know, and, and helping young men be more successful through the game of baseball. But there is a lot of the learnings that we can get, uh, you know, from a lot of these, especially colleges, um, that are teaching their kids about the things that we’re talking about here. Motivation, mindfulness mindset because they understand how important, you know, that aspect is an athletic performance.

 

Susan Fowler: (43:20)

They see it in real time. And, and I have to tell you that, um, John Kell Perry and I are really contemplating writing a book together, um, for coaches specifically for coaches. I’m also working with, in fact, the foreword of my book is written by John Paul Bouchard, who is the head of artistic coaches at circle. So lay in Montreal. And um, he and I are working together and then I have a baseball coach in Nebraska who, um, is just brilliant. His name is Ryan Dubin and he’s been working with these ideas for over a year now. And the results, can I just tell you one quick little thing he does at the end of every baseball practice gym is he gets his kids together in groups of four or five. The other coaches are not involved in those groups, but they asked the kids to answer three questions. What choices did I make in practice today and how did I feel about the choices I made? How did I contribute to the team and what did I learn? And they only take five to seven minutes. All of them answer that question. And Ryan says the quality of their practices has dimensionally improved

 

Jim Rembach: (44:25)

without a doubt. Okay. So now, gosh, you’ve learned a lot since the last time we met. I know there’s going to be learnings that going on. So I’m looking forward to, well I don’t want to, I don’t want as big of a gap that happened as last time. But, um, if you start talking about goals that you have now, I mean, yes, you have this book, you have several others, you have this learning, you have the faculty work, you have the nonprofit work, all of these things. But if you were to say that there was one goal that stands out, what would it be?

 

Susan Fowler: (44:51)

Oh, I know what it is. For 2020, I am starting a master motivation conversations online certification program, uh, for coaches, uh, primarily executive coaches. But I think that parents, teachers, coaches, anyone who wants to understand how to facilitate motivation conversations, um, to really help other people have a motivation breakthrough. And so that’s, that’s coming in 2020. It’s very exciting.

 

Jim Rembach: (45:19)

And the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Thank you. Alright, here we go. Fast leader Legion Tom for the home. Oh, bow. Okay. Susan hump. They hold on as a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust, your rabid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Susan, follower, are you ready to hold down? I think so. All right. So what is holding you back today from being a better leader? It’s always ego. It’s always ego. It’s always my own,

 

Susan Fowler: (45:52)

um, fears, uh, that I’m not, uh, being treated right or that I haven’t gotten my fair share. So that’s part of my personality types. So, because I understand this part of my personality type, I, I’m always constantly dealing with ego.

 

Jim Rembach: (46:05)

And what is the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?

 

Susan Fowler: (46:08)

The best leadership advice I’ve ever received is take care of your internal understanding so that you can better influence others. That most leaders are acting out of their own needs, not the needs of the followers. So you got to get out of your own need and into the needs of the people you lead. So like when you give feedback, every time I give feedback now I ask myself, is this my need because I want to show my, I’m an expert or I want one upsmanship or is it really for the benefit of the development of the person I’m giving the feedback to? So it’s the best advice ever got is um, know enough about yourself to be able to focus on what other people need from you.

 

Jim Rembach: (46:48)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Susan Fowler: (46:53)

Many, many years ago I heard whether it was true or not, I don’t know, but that if you spend an hour a week getting better at what you do, that within two years you’ll be a national expert. With five in five years you’ll be an international authority. And so I literally set aside one hour a week and said, what can I read? What can I do? Who do I can connect with that’s going to make me better at what I do than anybody else in the world? And I have to say that, um, I feel, I feel really, um, accomplished and, and competent, not satisfied yet, but um, yeah, so I think that one hour a week,

 

Jim Rembach: (47:33)

what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Susan Fowler: (47:37)

It’s not just one tool, but it’s a series of apps. Like I’m really into calm and luminosity and I actually got this headset called muse that that measures the wavelengths so that you’re able to get into a deeper meditation. And so I’m practicing my mindfulness. Any tool that helps me practice mindfulness. So on a plane or whatever, um, that’s what I’m doing. I’m taking that opportunity to, to learn to be more mindfulness. It’s a skill.

 

Jim Rembach: (48:05)

And what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to master your motivation and your other books on your show notes page as well.

 

Susan Fowler: (48:14)

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s funny, um, I was just on a webinar with some other Barrett Kohler authors this week and Barrett color’s my publisher. They publish books for to help the world be a better place. And I was on with um, two women, Laura and um, uh Tamra who wrote a book feedback and other dirty words and they’ve captured my belief about feedback and the research and just done it in a fun, easy to read way. I love their book. So it’s called feedback and other dirty words.

 

Jim Rembach: (48:48)

Okay. Past the religion, you can find links to that and other resources on Susan’s show notes page, which you will find@fastleader.net slash Susan Fowler too. Cause remember she’d been on before and we’ll also put a link to her other interview as well. Okay Susan, this is my last hump. They hold on question that you were given the opportunity to go back to the age 25. You can take the knowledge and skills that you have now and take them back with you, but you can’t take them all. You can only take one. What skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Susan Fowler: (49:18)

You know, I just know so clearly what it is. And it would be to be more open to saying yes to other people’s information. Just saying yes to life and then seeing where it takes you. Um, being more open to collaboration and less fearful that I get the credit or that you know, that people are seeing me as the person who’s whatever. Um, yeah. So I, I being more collaborative, more open to saying yes to other people’s ideas.

 

Jim Rembach: (49:45)

Susan, I had fun with you today. How can collegian connect with you@reallyeasywwwdotsusanfowler.com

 

Susan Fowler: (49:54)

and Jim, we have a brand new, what’s your emo survey that people are finding really, really fun. And then you get immediate feedback and a lot of information about if you’re in suboptimal motivation, how to shift.

 

Jim Rembach: (50:08)

I’ll, I’ll make sure that that gets on your show notes page as well. Susan follower, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 259: Susan Fowler: Let go of the junk food motivation appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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Susan Fowler Show Notes Page Susan Fowler shares new research on the science of motivation. When she shared these findings with the CEO of one of the world’s largest financial institutions and John Calipari, Susan Fowler shares new research on the science of motivation. When she shared these findings with the CEO of one of the world’s largest financial institutions and John Calipari, University of Kentucky Men’s Basketball Coach, they immediately changed how they led their people.
Susan Fowler was born and raised in Enid, Oklahoma, and raised in Denver, Colorado as the oldest of four children.
Susan Fowler discovered the power of teaching at an early age when her sister, Terri, was born with spina bifida, paralyzed from the waist down and retarded from water on the brain. Doctors explained that if Terri lived, she would never have the mentality beyond that of a 3-year-old.
Terri did live, and Susan couldn’t help but notice a spark in her sister’s bright blue eyes. Defying the doctors’ diagnoses, Susan used rather innovative techniques to teach her sister to read and write. Terri became the first handicapped child integrated into the Colorado school system. Doctors asked her parents: How did Terri learn to read and write? Their answer: Our 12-year-old daughter, Susan.
Susan has never stopped teaching—or leaning. Her motto is “I teach what I most need to learn.” She is the lead developer of product lines taught globally to tens of thousands of people through the Ken Blanchard Companies, including Situational Self Leadership and Optimal Motivation.
Susan is the author of seven books, including the bestselling Self Leadership and The One Minute Manager with Ken Blanchard and Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work… And What Does, and Master Your Motivation: Three Scientific Truths for Achieving your Goals.
Susan lives and works with her husband, Drea Zigarmi, in sunny San Diego where she is also an adjunct professor in the University of San Diego’s Masters of Science in Executive Leadership program and a rotating board member of Angel Faces, a nonprofit group dedicated to teaching adolescent girls how to cope with transfiguring burns and trauma.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @fowlersusann to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“I’ve got a whole shelf full of books on happiness where they don’t even define what they mean by happiness.” – Click to Tweet
“Happiness is not the end goal, the reason you are feeling a sense of well-being is what we need to be paying attention to.” – Click to Tweet
“When you are extrinsically motivated, it erodes or undermines your intrinsic motivation.]]>
Fast Leader Show Podcast 51:19
258: David McCourt: Blow up the model and start over https://www.fastleader.net/davidmccourt/ Wed, 01 Jan 2020 06:41:16 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=16215 https://www.fastleader.net/davidmccourt/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/davidmccourt/feed/ 0 <p>David McCourt Show Notes Page David McCourt was with two other Irishmen in a bar. But there was no joking around when he began whining about not getting paid for some contracting work his company did. His friends told him to stop whining and to go do something. David has spent the rest of his [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/davidmccourt/">258: David McCourt: Blow up the model and start over</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> David McCourt Show Notes Page

David McCourt was with two other Irishmen in a bar. But there was no joking around when he began whining about not getting paid for some contracting work his company did. His friends told him to stop whining and to go do something. David has spent the rest of his life doing a lot and is now pushing people to blow up their model and do a total rethink.

David was born and raised in Watertown, a suburb of Boston. Growing up, he was the youngest of seven siblings. He describes his first challenge as working out how to get into the one bathroom shared by nine family members.

David’s grandparents left Bally Winna and Bally Ward, Co Galway, in Ireland at the tender age of 16 and sailed from Cork for a better life in America. He still has the box that contained all their possessions they travelled with in his house in Co Clare, Ireland, saying it acts as a great reminder for how fortunate we are, and how little you really need in life.

At the age of sixteen, young David wanted to become a cop. The decision was then taken away from him when the job offer was withdrawn because they said they had minority set-asides.  Instead, he got a spot at Georgetown University, where alongside his studies, David started working for Tip O’Neill, the legendary politician who would go on to be one of the longest-ever-serving speakers of the House of Representatives.

David’s entrepreneurial path really got started at the age of 23 with McCourt Cable Systems, when he invented the industry standard of making a conduit with the cable already inside to make it easier to lay cable quicker with little disruption.

At 24, David moved out of the construction business after realizing that he needed to be in a business with recurring revenue. From there, he built Corporation Communications Network, the first competitive phone company in America, which used fibre.

He merged with MFS to create MFS McCourt and within several years, MFS sold for $14.3bn.  David went on to repeat this model in Europe and in Mexico.

In media, he has founded a television network produces award-winning TV shows and documentaries. His personal Emmy came for producing the long-running PBS Kids series ‘Reading Rainbow’ and he has produced documentaries with stars including Angelina Jolie, Michael Douglas, Meg Ryan and Sônia Braga, and worked alongside Spike Lee, LeVar Burton and Bill Duke.

Today, David channels his interests through his investment company, Granahan McCourt Capital, as founder and CEO. He has become one of the most prominent investors in the technology, media and telecommunications (TMT) industries.

David’s book ‘Total Rethink: Why Entrepreneurs Should Act Like Revolutionaries’ is a best-seller with the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Amazon, striking a chord with young entrepreneurs looking to disrupt the status quo.

The White House presented McCourt with its first-ever award recognizing extraordinary accomplishments by private sector businesses. He has been named “Entrepreneur of the Year” by Ernst & Young LLP, Harvard Business School and Georgetown University. The American-Irish Historical Society presented him with its gold medal, an award previously bestowed on Ronald Reagan, Mary Higgins Clark and Bono, and he was awarded the Science Foundation Ireland medal for outstanding contribution to technology and innovation.

David currently splits his time between Miami and London.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @DCMcCourt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“I do what I love, with people I love.” – Click to Tweet

“When you look at a big issue, you need to look into the future when it’s already solved, and then work backward in how you got there.” – Click to Tweet

“If you start at the present and look forward at a big problem, you’ll be overwhelmed and never be able to solve it.” – Click to Tweet

“You have to put yourself in the future and image the problem all solved and back into how you got there.” – Click to Tweet

“One side says the problem is all big business; another side says the problem is all big government. And they’re both lies, neither is true.” – Click to Tweet

“Business over the last 50 years have extracted value from communities instead of contributing to communities.” – Click to Tweet

“It doesn’t make you wrong that your view is different than mine.” – Click to Tweet

“Incremental change is no longer viable; you need to blow up the model and start over.” – Click to Tweet

“Business have got to take leadership and start adding value to the communities they do business in.” – Click to Tweet

“We all need to hang around young people to stay vibrant, stay relevant, to keep getting ideas.” – Click to Tweet

“Right now, the way the world is working we’re all getting satisfied in our own little echo chambers.” – Click to Tweet

“The educational system was built over hundreds of years for an old way of doing business.” – Click to Tweet

“You can’t spend time whining. You’ve got to face the situation you’re in, deal with it, make decisions, move forward.” – Click to Tweet

“Really successful people have learned how to say no to things that aren’t part of their base mission.” – Click to Tweet

“Life is not long enough to accomplish everything you want to accomplish.” – Click to Tweet

“With passion, even if you don’t accomplish everything you want to, you feel like you died trying.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

David McCourt was with two other Irishmen in a bar. But there was no joking around when he began whining about not getting paid for some contracting work his company did. His friends told him to stop whining and to go do something. David has spent the rest of his life doing a lot and is now pushing people to blow up their model and do a total rethink.

Advice for others

Live with passion and never give up.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Nothing

Best Leadership Advice

From Jack Welch, once you decide what your mission is for your company, repeat it over and over and over and over again, even if you have to say the same thing 10,000 times. Just keep on repeating it.

Secret to Success

Being born to the right family and having the father and mother I had, that gave me confidence. Luck.

Best tools in business or life

Self-awareness.

Recommended Reading

Total Rethink: Why Entrepreneurs Should Act Like Revolutionaries

The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results

Steve Jobs

Contacting David McCourt

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-mccourt-992182164/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/DCMcCourt

Website: https://davidmccourt.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

258 David McCourt episode

 

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to really assist us in rethinking everything.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:10)

David McCourt was born and raised in Watertown, a suburb of Boston. Growing up, he was the youngest of seven siblings. He describes his first challenge is working out how to get into the bathroom shared by nine family members, David’s grandparents, left belly winner and belly McCord County in Galway in Ireland at the tender age of 16 and sailed from cork for a better life in America. He still has the box that contained all their possessions they traveled with in his house in County, Clare Ireland saying an acts as a great reminder for how fortunate we are and how little you really need in life. At the age of 16 young David wanted to become a cop. The decision was taken away from him when the job offer was withdrawn because they said they had minority set asides. Instead, he got a spot at Georgetown university where alongside his studies, David started working for tip O’Neill, the legendary politician who would go on to be one of the longest ever serving speakers at the house of representatives.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:10)

David’s entrepreneurial path really got started at the age of 23 with McCourt cable systems when he invented the industry standard of making a conduit with the cable already inside to make it easier to lay cable quicker with little disruption. At age 24 David moved out of the construction business after realizing that he needed to be in a business with recurring revenue. From there, he built corporation communications network, the first competitive phone company in America, which used fiber. He merged with M F S to create MFS McCourt and within several years, MFS was sold for 14 point $3 billion and David went on to repeat this model in Europe and in Mexico and media. He has founded a television network which produces award-winning TV shows and documentaries. His personal Emmy came from producing the long running PBS kid series reading rainbow, and he has produced documentaries with stars including Angelina Jolie. Michael Douglas, Meg Ryan and so Sonia Braga and worked alongside spike Lee LaVar Burton and bill Duke today.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:16)

David channels his interests through his investment company. How do you say thank you, grant, a hand McCourt capital. As founder and CEO, he has become one of the most prominent investors in the technology, media and telecommunication industries. David’s book total rethink why entrepreneurs should act like revolutionaries is a bestseller with the wall street journal USA today and Amazon striking a cord with young entrepreneurs looking to disrupt the status quo. The white house presented McCourt with its first ever award recognizing extraordinary complements in the private sector business. He’s been named entrepreneurial nearby Ernst and young Harvard business school and Georgetown university. The American Irish historical society presented him with its gold medal and award previously to stowed on Ronald Reagan, Mary Higgins, Clark, and bono and he was awarded the science foundation Ireland medal for outstanding contribution to technology and innovation. David currently splits his time between Miami and London. David McCourt, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

David McCourt: (03:16)

Absolutely, Jim. Absolutely. Thank you for having me on.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:20)

Oh, I am so glad to have you on the show because you are going to share with us one of these most powerful topics. I think that underlies all of our future success. But I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

David McCourt: (03:38)

Yeah. Thanks Jim. Well, you know, I spent my whole life in telecom and media, so that’s, that’s my thing and that’s what I do. Um, I’m blessed now that I have a little bit more choice of what I do and who I do it with. So I do what I love with people I love and we are lucky enough recently, um, as in two weeks ago we were just awarded the largest public private partnership in Europe. It’s a $5 billion project to, um, fiber up all of Ireland. Every man, woman and child will have a fiber to the home in Ireland. And I’m going to be doing that. My company grant him a court in partnership with the Irish government. So we’re very excited about that and I’m obviously very excited about my book. Total rethink. So I’m out peddling the book to Jim.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:26)

Well and, and you know, I, after going through the book and I had mentioned that, um, I haven’t done a word for word read, I’ve done a deep skim of it so that we can have this interview, but I’m looking forward to going back to the book because you share so many of your life stories. I mean it’s going back at an early age talking about that, you know, trying to get into the bathroom, you know, all the way to where you are today. It’s just been a bunch of challenges and navigation points for you that you’ve pivoted and just continued to, to, to move forward. But one of the things that you said in the book for me, I think resonates pretty strongly and that you talk about us needing to leap forward and then look back to see how we got there and really just start our navigation.

 

David McCourt: (05:08)

That’s exactly right Jim. When you, when you look, when you stand in the present, look at a big problem. Big, big problems like we have today. We have housing crisis today. We have a healthcare crisis today. We have educational costs rising faster than wages. So we have big problems right now. Housing, healthcare, education, big, big issues, the environment, big issues. When you’re looking at initiative, it’s that big. You need to put yourself in the future when the problem is already solved and then look at that in its finish date and then work backwards and how you got there and work your way all the way backwards to the present. And then you can see what the steps are. Because if you start from the present and look forward at a problem that’s that big, you’ll be overwhelmed and you’ll never be able to solve it. And you’ll keep on making incremental steps. But if the problem is getting bigger, faster than you’re making incremental incremental steps, as is the case around housing, education and health care in the environment, then you’re never going to get there. You’re never going to solve the problem fast enough. So you have to put yourself in the future and then imagine the problem all solved and then back into how you got there. It’s the only way you can solve problems of this size in my view.

 

Jim Rembach: (06:23)

Well, and in the book you talk about the whole U S political issue with the duopoly, you know, of the, of the two party system. You talk about collaboration, you talk about all of these things that are necessary in order for us to, you know, really get to that solution. Uh, but I think for most of us, you know, that’s the, that’s a grand scheme that we can never reach. So we have to kind of look at it from our own perspective. And you talk about, you know, your creative thinking needing to be holistic. What do you really mean by that?

 

David McCourt: (06:53)

Well, for this, I think there’s two questions in there. First of all, we have this do opoly these, these two systems, right? We have the left and the right and one side says the problem is all big business. Another side says the problem is all big government and they’re both lies. Neither is true. We need a functioning government. Government is not all the problem all the time and we need functioning businesses. Otherwise you and I won’t be able to be talking over this, this technology if it wasn’t for functioning businesses, right. But businesses over the last 50 years have extracted value from communities instead of contributing to communities. And that’s it. You know, it used to be the businesses would contribute to the community and they’d make money. Now they seem to, many of them are just trying to extract value from the communities they do business in.

 

David McCourt: (07:46)

If they have a division that’s not making as much money as all the other divisions, but it’s very important to a community, they’ll shut it down in a, in a heartbeat rather than say, well, we have to fix this. It’s not as profitable as the other ones, but it’s still important to the community. And that way of thinking has gone away. And that’s made people angry at business and businesses angry at government because government just keeps getting bigger and bigger and it, and it gets less and less done. But the both, not bad. We just need a sensible middle. And when I, you mentioned in my introduction that he used to work for a guy named tip O’Neill, speaker of the house. My little desk was right outside his office and every day when he’d come back from the floor, I’d say, mr speaker, how’d we do today?

 

David McCourt: (08:27)

And he would always say to me, well, Davey used to call me Davey. Well Davey, we’ve got half and half is better than nothing. That attitude of of compromise is gone in gym. You may have a view of something and I may have a view of something that doesn’t make you wrong, that your view is different than mine. It means that based on where you stand or where you sit based on your life experiences, based on your knowledge, that’s your position. Based on my knowledge, based on where I stand on where I sit, I have a position we should exchange those, those ideas. It doesn’t make either one of us wrong, it just means we have a different view and politicians should accept both views and get to the sensible middle. But that that’s, that’s left us and that needs to come back. We need to rethink politics. We need to rethink that attitude.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:15)

You know, I think you and I could definitely go on for a long time associated with this because I think underlying in your book and you come out and talk about it and you know, you, you’re really saying it here is that a lot of this is about relationships and having deeper connections and relationships. You know, it used to be, you know, in tips day and prior to that, you know that on both sides, you know, actually be having social functions and events with one another and they had deeper relationships. You know, now that’s just not the case.

 

David McCourt: (09:45)

And they listened, they didn’t attack you, can’t you? If you attack another man or a woman, they’re going to defend themselves. And that’s not a way to get anything done. And now it’s all about attacking the other side. It’s all about, let me, you know, Jim says one thing, so I say Jim is wrong. Jim is stupid. Jim doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Jim is going to destroy the country. Jim is going to destroy the world. We can’t listen to Jim. That’s not a, that’s a way me never getting through to Jim. That’s a way. And then all of Jim’s friends and followers are gone. Then I’m going to attack Dave because Dave is attacking Jim. And then you just end up with this. And of course social platforms, we award you for this because they get you more followers and more comments. So you think you’re doing well because you’re getting more likeminded people to follow you. And then you have more likeminded people on the other side to follow them. And then the circles get bigger and bigger. But there’s still two opposing circles that get nothing done.

 

Jim Rembach: (10:47)

Well, and I think, um, you know, again, I don’t want to get too far into this, this political thing because it takes him, distracts away from your book. But you know, even Howard Schultz, Schultz, um, you know, the CEO of Starbucks, you know, thought and considered, you know, making a run as an independent to help, you know, maybe break this up, pulled out. He did for 45 minutes. Exactly. It was the quickest campaign ever. Exactly. Uh, and the fear was that it would just, you know, split, you know, the votes and things like that and people would get in that you didn’t want to get in. And it’s just, it’s, it’s craziness. But I think for us when we start thinking about our own things that we can really take advantage of and, and empower, you know, that’s really, it has to start with us. Um, and so you talk about, you know, people and building that tribe and building, you know, even a followership, you know, and think about it as a work environment and you talk about somebody always being excited for somebody that is continually looking to blow up the model. What do you, what do you mean by that?

 

David McCourt: (11:49)

Well, Jim, from the industrial revolution, or even before that, up to about the 1990s everything was about incremental change. You could live your life and you could run your business, but incremental change. And in business, we even had names for like six Sigma and another turn of inventory. Another point of EBITDA. It was all about just doing everything every year a little bit better. Now the world is moving too fast. Plus because of the internet, because of social media, because of the polarization of the political system, because of the way we consume news, all of the, because of globalization, because of all those things you can’t, incremental change is no longer viable. You need to blow up a model and start over. You need to just scratch it. You can’t make incremental changes. We’re not going to be able to solve our way through the fact that education costs, healthcare costs, housing costs are growing faster than wages.

 

David McCourt: (12:44)

We have to blow up the model. We’re not going to be able to make incremental changes around this crazy political system that we have now and you can see all over the world gym people are getting are getting pissed off. You see that in the Arab spring, you see that in Hong Kong and you see that and then as well you see that all over the world. People are are angry and that gives you Brexit. I’m in London today. We just had elections here today. That gives you Trump that, that, and you may be far Brexit that are against Brexit. You may be for Trump or against Trump. My point is it that people are angry and people are angry because the problems for the middle-class are getting bigger and bigger and we’re solving them on a very incremental basis. But the problems are growing by leaps and bounds. So people are feeling that they get left behind in businesses and have got to take leadership in helping to solve these problems. These problems are not going to get solved by politicians. Businesses have got to take leadership and start contributing in, in adding value to the communities as well as making money. You have to add value to the communities they do business in.

 

Jim Rembach: (13:56)

Well, when you start talking about the business landscape though, um, I mean it’s, you know, at least in America, you know, they say America is run on small business. You know, people that have, you know, less than 10 people, um, that are part of the company. And so if we start talking about business, you know, solving these problems, what businesses are you really talking about?

 

David McCourt: (14:18)

Well, look all the PR, let’s talk about the environment. We talked about the environment, right? You can make money by solving the environmental problem. You know, we have, um, so I was yesterday, I’m in London today. Yesterday I was in, I was in Ireland. We have 137,500 farms in Ireland, right? Most of them are beef, beef, cattle. The cow, Jim, the cow doesn’t have a good future, right? If people are eating less meat, they’re saying meat’s not good for you. They’re saying that, um, the amount of methane gas that farms put out is far more than, than automobiles put out, you know, per area. In Ireland, about 20% of our MFA, our, our, our carbon footprint is attributable to automobiles, about 25% towards houses, 35% towards agriculture. So how do we rethink all that methane on the farms and turn that into and turn that into energy?

 

David McCourt: (15:17)

How do we rethink storing electricity? How do we rethink, uh, batteries? How do we rethink electric cars? You don’t have to plug them in. You remember, Jim, when you used to travel, you know, 20 years ago, you’d go to a hotel room and you were looking for that blue coat to put into your laptop. No. You know, no. If you went to a 20 year old kid and asked him about that new cord that he used to plug into his laptop, when you got no hotel room, you have no idea what you’re talking about. You can’t have electric cars that you have to look for a place in the side of the road to plug them into. There’s gotta be a way that those, that those are charged, there’s gotta be a way that they store more power, that they’re charged for longer periods of time, that you charge them quicker and you don’t have to plug into charging.

 

David McCourt: (15:56)

You just have to drive over a pad or you drive under a charging station. So, um, how we rethink the, the agriculture, how we think the sustainability of farms, how we think the sustainability of our energy sources in our food, all of those things, uh, ways to make money. How we rethink rural life right now in the world is seven, the equivalent of seven New York cities a year, the equivalent of the size of New York city, seven a year being added to the globe. So everybody’s going to an urban environment. Well, we’re a life will die in. And obviously that doesn’t help housing private practices up prices prior to me. Obviously that doesn’t help the environment. We have to rethink the rural environment as business opportunities there. We have to rethink healthcare education. Why is it cost in America $50,000 to send your kid to a top 50 university in America? Crazy. You can’t afford that. So all of those things, uh, business opportunities, every one of them, Jim,

 

Jim Rembach: (16:58)

they are. And so all of this is founded in really this creative thinking, you know, that we’re talking about. And that’s the whole, you know, disruption element. That’s a whole, you know, you’re talking about being a revolutionary in that. But when we start thinking about some of these modern societies, all of them are experiencing what is referred to as a creativity crisis, right? Um, because of how we do education because of how many other factors come into play. We are stripping out and taking out that creative thinking process and you talk about in the book, you know something about asking a 10 year old, you talk about thinking big but think young. So elaborate on that a little bit.

 

David McCourt: (17:36)

Well that’s, that’s a tip I got from my mother and my mother who was with us until she was in our hundred and third year and vibrant and living alone in till five days before she died. She just died a few months ago and she to always tell me, and I’m talking about when she was a hundred, she was telling me this, she’d say, Dave, don’t hang around with old people. They’ll bring you down. Hang around with young people. We all need to hang around with young people to stay vibrant, to stay relevant, to keep on getting those ideas. And we have to read a lot and we have to listen to other people. And in right now, the way the world is working, we’re all getting satisfied in our own little echo chambers because that’s where we get our likes and our, uh, positive comments on social media.

 

David McCourt: (18:20)

We need to go outside of that environment to people who have a different viewpoint, listen to what they’re saying. Now I have the luxury and I’m blessed because I can travel all over the world and I do travel and I do business all over the world. So I get to sit down with people like yourself, Jim, and, and, and hear someone else’s viewpoint, someone else’s, um, view of the world, someone looking at the same situation through someone else’s, uh, optics, someone else’s prison. And that’s what you need to do to stay young and stay creative in the educational system is not going to help that cause the educational system is very rigid. Educational system was built over hundreds of years for an old way of doing business. We’re doing business and we’re living our lives a very different way, but we’re educating our kids the same way. And that’s a problem. And it’s a business opportunity to, for someone to solve that.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:15)

Well, and you even talk about in the book something about a lot of universities trying to step up and having, you know, entrepreneurial type of programs. And you talk about even, you know, really the, the, the mindset of the students in those entrepreneurial types of programs. And I think that’s important for you to share. What did you, what are you finding there?

 

David McCourt: (19:32)

What I mean there is that a lot, and I speak at a lot of universities in, in schools and I hear a lot people that say young people that say they want to be an entrepreneur. And when you ask them why they don’t want to have a boss, they want to make a lot of money. They want to have their own hours that they work. And those are all bad reasons to be an entrepreneur. Um, w you do, you want a mentor and that might be a boss or something like a boss. Uh, and you’re going to work endless hours and you’re not going to have, you’re gonna have less freedom. You’re gonna make less money as an entrepreneur in most cases. So you have to do it for the love of solving problems that people say can’t be solved. You have to do it for the, for, for the love and the passion that brings you to, to focus on problems that people say can’t be solved.

 

David McCourt: (20:27)

And we need to bring that way of thinking to everything, including business, not just business, because business people gym, they’re like mice. You know, they’ll, they’ll find a crumb somewhere, they’ll find a way to make a living. We need to bring an entrepreneurial way or revolutionary way of thinking to doctors in Deloitte [inaudible] into judges and to police woman and to teachers and to fire woman in firemen. We need to bring a, a, a more entrepreneurial way of thinking to the entire middle-class of the world, of, of, of what makes up the world. What makes up all of our neighbors. So in the book, is that what you’re calling the, it’s this empowerment culture yet? Well, the empowerment culture is, is from, from day one. Until recently the world was managed from the top business and government and people have influenced, set the rules for for organized law abiding society and we all followed them, but now we’re looking at an environment where a the doing a bad job at the top for the reasons we talked about earlier, businesses extracting too much value and not contributing as much value as they should.

 

David McCourt: (21:41)

Politicians have got to the point where their only job is to get reelected every day they wake up with one thing in mind. How do I get reelected? What do I say or do to keep my job? They’ve forgotten who they represent so that the politicians that have taken on a new, a new life of just staying in power. You’ve got businesses that have gotten a little too greedy so you’ve got this, this problem going on. Then you’ve got the world moving very, very fast so and you’ve got the internet and social media where people on the bottom can see the difference between the haves and the have nots. The difference between the haves and have nots has gotten wider and wider and people can organize because of social media. They can organize around a person or a thought or a cause and that’s why you’ve see what you see in Hong Kong.

 

David McCourt: (22:29)

That’s what you, that’s what you have, what you’ve been seeing in France. That’s why you have what you’ve seen in Beirut recently. That’s what you, that’s what you’ve got, what you saw in the Arab spring. You’ve got people organizing around a thought or a cause or a person and saying, time out, I’ve had enough. You guys at the top have not done a good job. We want change and you’re going to see it pop up all over the world until finally the bottom gets organized. Cause right now they’re a little disorganized. When they get organized, they’ll force change from the bottom up, which will be much more effective than the top down because what the top is doing,

 

Speaker 4: (23:09)

okay?

 

David McCourt: (23:11)

The politicians are just saying things that sound right. Like it’s the one percenters problem. They’re there. They’re calling, you know, rich people, the one percenters in the saying it’s their fault. Well, it’s everybody’s fault. And by blaming one group and saying, we’re going to take away what you have to solve, the problem that doesn’t solve the problem, what we want to do is give to the bottom what they’re asking for, which is the basic things that make you feel dignified to not keep on falling farther and farther out of reach, like able to own a house, being able to have proper health care, being able to educate your kids. My grandfather, you mentioned him earlier, um, when he came over at 16 years old, now my grandfather and grandmother came from two villages that were very close to each other, but they didn’t meet till they were in America.

 

David McCourt: (24:00)

They met in Boston, but my grandfather was a janitor. So a janitor is a man that cleans toilets and floors for a living. But he owned his own house and his dog, he educated his daughter who turned out to be my mother and he could pay his doctor bills and he could pay it. And he knew if he ever lost his job, you wouldn’t lose this house cause he owned his own house. Today in America, a janitor can’t afford to own a house. So what does that mean? That we’re going to take a whole piece of American society and say, you don’t get to own the American dream, but yet I still want a clean bathroom. That doesn’t work either. Either. We decide that we all get a piece of the American dream. You talked about what America is. To me, America is the country of hopes and dreams. As soon as we lose that, we’re screwed. In my book, what I try to do in my book is say, let’s all rethink everything. Politics, education, healthcare, uh, uh, uh, how we elect people, uh, campaign reform, educational reform. Let’s rethink them all.

 

Jim Rembach: (25:01)

Well, and so you kind of alluded to there in a book, you, you, you talk about, you know, creating a revolution, but you talk about create, being able to have creative revolutionaries because this isn’t about fighting. I mean, that’s still that same polarization thing that we’re talking about that we don’t need for that. So how do we incubate either in ourselves and in others, you know, this creative, revolutionary type of person?

 

David McCourt: (25:29)

Well, the first thing we need to do, and not all you know, revolutionaries, we’re, we’re, we’re fighting. You know, Gandhi wasn’t a big fighter, right? Mother Teresa wasn’t a, wasn’t a big fighter. So not everybody was, was trying to fight. But the first thing you do is you try to let people know that they can make a difference. You try to give people confidence. You try to instill confidence in people that didn’t have the same opportunities that maybe you and I had, but are very, very creative. They just don’t have the confidence. So try to give them the confidence, then try to give them a playing field in which they can, they can be compared to mainstream and let them add it. Let them at these problems. Let people who can’t afford to go to university still have the same access that you and I have to the world. And you know, step one is giving people confidence. Step two is giving them a platform.

 

Jim Rembach: (26:24)

Well with me as you’re talking, even going through this book, the fact is, is we don’t have to be an independent, you know, uh, employed person and an entrepreneur to really take advantage of all the things that are, you know, learning lessons, uh, and, and really life things that you’ve gone through in this book. I mean, really is starting today with where you are, you know, and doing that leap forward. You know, you may find that you’re, you know, you are where you want to be. Um, and it’s just widening things. You know, may, it may give you the opportunity to see that you need to be somewhere else, but I don’t think people go through that exercise and activity enough. How often should somebody actually do that leaping forward? And then looking back

 

David McCourt: (27:06)

every time they’re confronted with a problem that they feel is insurmountable, every single time someone is faced with a problem that they feel is overwhelming them because it’s too big. If you got to close your eyes for a minute, put themselves in the situation where that problem is solved. Paint a picture in their mind of what that looks like, solved. And then say, okay, what was the last thing that happened? What was the second to last thing? The third to last, the fourth to last, the fifth to last and work their way backwards. And they’ll see that it’s not that unsolvable that it needs to look for once they get back to the present. They need to look forward and take one step at a time.

 

Jim Rembach: (27:48)

Okay. So what’s you’re talking about there is something that I’ve studied called retrospective engineering. I’m also, they say that’s the same methodology that chess grandmasters use in order to win at the game of chess

 

David McCourt: (28:00)

retrospective engineer. And that’s a fancy word for what I was talking about.

 

Jim Rembach: (28:04)

I thought I’d share that with you.

 

David McCourt: (28:06)

Thank you.

 

Jim Rembach: (28:08)

All of what we’re talking about and what we’ve talked about requires a whole lot of inspiration. And one of the things that we look at on the show in order to get that are quotes because they help us hopefully get some white points. Um, is there a quote or two that you liked that you can share?

 

David McCourt: (28:23)

Yeah, ma ma, like my book, my book, I tried to take my book, Jim and I tried to put a quote at the beginning and at the end of every chapter, because it’s funny you should say that because I think quotes really help people. Uh, and I tried to put a quote at the beginning and then, or two, and then I’d write my story to try to get my point across from my own perspective to try to humanize it. And then I’d end with a quote unquote my fate. My best quote in the book is the very last one. I’ll read you the last one. No matter what happens in your life, remember, someone has it worse. Triers how does, it seems to always accept what has happened, but one foot in front of the other and move forward. Always forward. Catherine McCourt. That’s my mother.

 

David McCourt: (29:09)

And um, that’s the best. That’s the, that’s the best quote in the book. But there is, there are a lot of them. Um, eh, here’s one on page two 57. Art, freedom and creativity will change society faster than politics. Viktor Pinchuk. I mean, there’s a, there’s a lot, you know, I got some, um, uh, comments on, on social media. Uh, my book became a, um, a bestseller and some, some people were saying, you know, how can you, how can you, uh, quote shake of R and B, a, B, a wall street journal bestseller, you know, he was a revolutionary, you know, he was a murderer or whatever. Look, I’m not saying that everybody in this book is, um, you know, I quote Tom Brady in this book. If you’re a jets fan or a giants fan or a Dallas cowboy fan, you’re not going to like Tom Brady. That doesn’t mean as quotes not good. Tom, Tom Brady has a great one here. He says, too often in life something happens and we blame other people for us not being happy or satisfied or fulfilled. So the point is, we will have choices and we make the choices to accept people or situations or not to accept situations. I mean, whether you’re a new England Patriots fan or not, that’s still a good quote.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:21)

Oh, a lot of places that we absolutely have to find inspiration. And your book also too is loaded with some thing that we focused in on, on the show. And that is getting over the hump because we can learn and a lot of people will learn from the lessons that you’ve learned from, you know, everything from, you know, needing to go to the back of the bathroom at the white house and, and seeing a friend of a, uh, a good friend.

 

David McCourt: (30:44)

You did, you did read the book. Thank you. Thank you.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:48)

Yeah, you’re welcome sir. Um, but we talk about getting over the hump. So now you have a lot of stories in the book. Yes. But what one story that you would, that you could share on the show really stands out for you that people can learn from?

 

David McCourt: (31:00)

Probably. Um, a story I tell early in the book, um, about how I started as a contractor and I wasn’t being paid and I was in a bar with a couple of friends of mine. Um, a top tip O’Neill son, Tommy, was one of them. Jim Finnigan was another one. Um, and you know, as three Irishmen, that’s where we were in a bar. Right. That’s, that’s, that sounds like the beginning of a joke. Right. And I, you know, I said that I was whining that I hadn’t got paid, and one of the guys said, look, you got to stop whining. No one gives a shit. No one wants to hear what y’all whiny, just do something. So I went out and I called the owner of the cable system, hadn’t paid me. And I said, look, if you’re not going to pay me, I’m going to take my work back.

 

David McCourt: (31:43)

And I started digging up with a backhoe. I started digging up the cable I’d put in for them, would shut the system down, which created this huge turmoil, which brought them to the table. Um, and that was like on a Tuesday, and by Thursday I had been paid and I probably still would’ve been paid had I not done that. And the point is not that people should go around, you know, dig enough cable with the backhoe. That might’ve been a little bit aggressive. Um, you know, but I was in my twenties at that time. But the point is that you, you, you can’t spend time whining. You’ve got to face the situation. You’re in face the reality you’re in. Don’t try to pretend that’s not the reality. Don’t try to brush it under the rug, face it, deal with it. Make decisions, move forward.

 

Jim Rembach: (32:33)

Ah, that is so true. Now talking about that, moving forward, I mean do you have a lot of things going on? Everything from you know, television and producing to investments and, and all these things that you know, you currently have in front of you, the book and promoting the book. So I dare to say that you probably have several goals that you have in store and in mind for you and several of those leaps and look backs that you want to do. What’s one of those that you can share?

 

David McCourt: (32:57)

One of the things I want to be better at in this coming year is saying no. The difference between successful people and really successful people is really successful. People have learned how to say no to things that aren’t part of their base mission cause you, cause life is not long enough to accomplish everything you want to accomplish. So you’ve got to be able to keep on bringing your focus back to what the one thing is. There was a, I pick up a book called the one thing, not that I’m trying to plug someone else’s book. I’d rather all your listeners read my book first, but I picked that book up called the one thing in the airport not long ago and I read it on a flight. It was actually right. You know, the premise of the book is that every day, every minute or every hour, every day, every week, every year, there’s always one thing that’s more important than everything else and focus on that one thing and get that done. Um, so if we talk next year, this time I’ll let you know how I’m doing, but that, that’s my goal for this year and to get people to read the book, not because I want, you know, to be continue to be a bestseller, not because I, you know, um, you know, want to get, uh, you know, a small royalty off the book. I want to use the book to help people to have confidence, to rethink their life, to rethink their station in life so they can be everything they, they were born to be

 

Jim Rembach: (34:31)

and the fast leader. Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (34:37)

And even better place to work is an easy solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award, winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com board slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay David, the hump they hold on to the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m asking you several questions and your job is to give us robust, yet rapid responses are going to help onward and upward faster. David McCourt, are you ready to hold down? I am. So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? What is the best leadership advice you’ve ever received

 

David McCourt: (35:28)

from Jack Welsh, which is one, once you decide what’s what your mission is for your company, repeat it over and over and over and over and over again. Even if you have to say the same thing 10,000 times. Just keep on repeating it.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:43)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

David McCourt: (35:47)

Being born to the right family. Having, having the mother I had and the father I had that that gave me confidence. Luck. [inaudible].

 

Jim Rembach: (35:55)

And what is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

David McCourt: (35:59)

Persistence. I’m a persistent guy.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:03)

And what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? You mentioned something about the one thing with that understood notes page. What other book would you recommend?

 

David McCourt: (36:11)

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s been around for a long time, but Isaacson’s um, uh, well any of Isaacson’s books, but his book, uh, about Steve jobs is very inspiring, very, very inspiring for me. It was. Anyway.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:25)

Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/david McCourt. We’ll also put a link to total rethink on your show notes page as well. Okay. David, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to that age of 25 and you have all the knowledge and skills that you have now and you can take them back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill or knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

David McCourt: (36:54)

That is a good question. Um, passion would be the one that I would, if I had to give up all the others, if I could, if I could hold on to passion, that’d be the one I’d hold on to. Because with passion gym, even if you don’t accomplish everything you, you want to, you know, you feel, you feel like you died trying. So the one thing I would not want to give up and the one thing I take with me, if I went back with only one, one quality, it would be passion.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:24)

David, I had a fun time with you today. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you?

 

David McCourt: (37:29)

You can use either um, at DC McCourt for Instagram at DC McCoy for Twitter, uh, or LinkedIn, any of the Instagram. I’d love to have your, your followers follow me on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn. Let me know what they think of the book. I’d love them after they read the book to go on Amazon, let Amazon know what they think of the book and I’ll stay. I’ll stay in touch with you and I’ll stay in touch with, with all your followers.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:53)

David McCourt. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 258: David McCourt: Blow up the model and start over appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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David McCourt Show Notes Page David McCourt was with two other Irishmen in a bar. But there was no joking around when he began whining about not getting paid for some contracting work his company did. His friends told him to stop whining and to go do s... David McCourt was with two other Irishmen in a bar. But there was no joking around when he began whining about not getting paid for some contracting work his company did. His friends told him to stop whining and to go do something. David has spent the rest of his life doing a lot and is now pushing people to blow up their model and do a total rethink.
David was born and raised in Watertown, a suburb of Boston. Growing up, he was the youngest of seven siblings. He describes his first challenge as working out how to get into the one bathroom shared by nine family members.
David’s grandparents left Bally Winna and Bally Ward, Co Galway, in Ireland at the tender age of 16 and sailed from Cork for a better life in America. He still has the box that contained all their possessions they travelled with in his house in Co Clare, Ireland, saying it acts as a great reminder for how fortunate we are, and how little you really need in life.
At the age of sixteen, young David wanted to become a cop. The decision was then taken away from him when the job offer was withdrawn because they said they had minority set-asides.  Instead, he got a spot at Georgetown University, where alongside his studies, David started working for Tip O’Neill, the legendary politician who would go on to be one of the longest-ever-serving speakers of the House of Representatives.
David’s entrepreneurial path really got started at the age of 23 with McCourt Cable Systems, when he invented the industry standard of making a conduit with the cable already inside to make it easier to lay cable quicker with little disruption.
At 24, David moved out of the construction business after realizing that he needed to be in a business with recurring revenue. From there, he built Corporation Communications Network, the first competitive phone company in America, which used fibre.
He merged with MFS to create MFS McCourt and within several years, MFS sold for $14.3bn.  David went on to repeat this model in Europe and in Mexico.
In media, he has founded a television network produces award-winning TV shows and documentaries. His personal Emmy came for producing the long-running PBS Kids series ‘Reading Rainbow’ and he has produced documentaries with stars including Angelina Jolie, Michael Douglas, Meg Ryan and Sônia Braga, and worked alongside Spike Lee, LeVar Burton and Bill Duke.
Today, David channels his interests through his investment company, Granahan McCourt Capital, as founder and CEO. He has become one of the most prominent investors in the technology, media and telecommunications (TMT) industries.
David’s book ‘Total Rethink: Why Entrepreneurs Should Act Like Revolutionaries’ is a best-seller with the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Amazon, striking a chord with young entrepreneurs looking to disrupt the status quo.
The White House presented McCourt with its first-ever award recognizing extraordinary accomplishments by private sector businesses. He has been named “Entrepreneur of the Year” by Ernst & Young LLP, Harvard Business School and Georgetown University. The American-Irish Historical Society presented him with its gold medal, an award previously bestowed on Ronald Reagan, Mary Higgins Clark and Bono, and he was awarded the Science Foundation Ireland medal for outstanding contribution to technology and innovation.
David currently splits his time between Miami and London.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @DCMcCourt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowhttps://www.fastleader.net/?p=16185 https://www.fastleader.net/colindellis/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/colindellis/feed/ 0 <p>Colin D Ellis Show Notes Page Colin D Ellis gambled everything to launch a new business. As he struggled with clients not signing up, he lost his confidence and started to lose belief in his vision. Deciding to never give up he found a way to motivate himself and now helps others to invigorate their [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/colindellis/">257: Colin D Ellis: You need great subcultures</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Colin D Ellis Show Notes Page

Colin D Ellis gambled everything to launch a new business. As he struggled with clients not signing up, he lost his confidence and started to lose belief in his vision. Deciding to never give up he found a way to motivate himself and now helps others to invigorate their teams and transform their organizations.

Colin was born and raised in Liverpool, UK. He’s the eldest of three boys. His Dad went out to work every day, while Mum managed the household.

Growing up, he wasn’t academically gifted but flourished in a team environment. So, having flunked his high school education, he got a job as soon as he could. He loved working. He loved interacting with people but lacked having the discipline to get things done and to gain a financial reward from that.

He started his working career working as a teller for a bank. He learned how to excel at customer service and to be a good teammate. He also learned how to balance a till, which wasn’t easy for an extrovert. From there, he moved into Liverpool city to sell advertising space for a newspaper. He did this for three years before being recognized as someone who could build teams to deliver projects to address the organization’s vulnerability for the Year 2000 computer bug.

This changed everything for Colin. He loved project management and loved to build teams that people wanted to be part of. In a little over five years, he climbed the ranks to set up the first project department for the newspaper. Shortly after, he left to head up a project department for a retail company who was transforming their culture.

His family then emigrated to New Zealand where he spent six years changing project delivery cultures in government departments before moving to Australia. In 2015, he decided to quit his job and self-published his first book and has written three more since. In his latest book, Culture Fix: How to Create A Great Place to Work, Colin unravels the complexity of undertaking organizational culture change.

The legacy he’s most proud to leave behind are two emotionally intelligent children who know how to treat people with kindness and possess commonsense approaches to doing things well. And to make people laugh.

Colin currently lives in Melbourne, Australia with his wife and two children although he spends most of his time in the air or hotels!

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @colindellis to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“Culture is the sum of everyone’s attitudes, beliefs, behaviors, traditions, and skills.” – Click to Tweet

“Cultures are made up of everybody.” – Click to Tweet

“Great workplace cultures are made up of our little vulnerabilities.” – Click to Tweet

“At the heart of every great culture is an aspirational statement of the future and a set of core values.” – Click to Tweet

“Core values provide the emotional compass for people.” – Click to Tweet

“We need to understand societal contexts before we start to create this thing called culture.” – Click to Tweet

“To get great organizational culture what you need is great subcultures.” – Click to Tweet

“Silos can be really good things provided everyone’s doing something in a similar way.” – Click to Tweet

“Spend time building relationships and getting to know people, that’s foundation number one.” – Click to Tweet

“Getting to know each other, having a core vision statement, and a set of core values provides the foundation for everything else.” – Click to Tweet

“What most organizations fear is the concept of taking people out.” – Click to Tweet

“Behavior is the one thing that holds cultures back.” – Click to Tweet

“You’re only as good as the behavior that you walk past.” – Click to Tweet

“If culture is truly the most important thing it requires that you start to performance manage individuals.” – Click to Tweet

“Leadership is really managers who make the choice to become a positive difference in people’s lives.” – Click to Tweet

“If you’re not aware of your own strengths or opportunities for improvement, then you’re only going to achieve what you are half capable of.” – Click to Tweet

“Too many people are constrained by their own mindsets rather than grabbing this thing called ambition by the scruff of the neck.” – Click to Tweet

“Great cultures have two things, they have highly emotionally intelligent people who care about each other and what the organization is trying to achieve.” – Click to Tweet

“Once you’ve created a vibrant culture, staying there is the next biggest challenge.” – Click to Tweet

“What we need is good followership, so anybody can lead at any time.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Colin D Ellis gambled everything to launch a new business. As he struggled with clients not signing up, he lost his confidence and started to lose belief in his vision. Deciding to never give up he found a way to motivate himself and now helps others to invigorate their teams and transform their organizations.

Advice for others

Learn to communicate a message to different personalities.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Not admitting to myself that I need to shut up every now and then and listen more.

Best Leadership Advice

You’re not the smartest person in the room and you should take on other people’s ideas and learn from them.

Secret to Success

My never-ending energy.

Best tools in business or life

Self-awareness.

Recommended Reading

Culture Fix: How to Create a Great Place to Work

On the Road

Contacting Colin D Ellis

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colindellis/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/colindellis

Website: https://www.colindellis.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

Jim Rembach: (00:00)
Okay, fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who was going to give us the opportunity to get a little bit greater clarity around what is

Jim Rembach: (00:10)
company culture and how it impacts both the internal human experience and the external human experience. Colin D Ellis was born and raised in Liverpool, UK. He’s the eldest of three boys. His dad went out to work every day while mom managed the household growing up. He wasn’t academically gifted but flourished in 18 environment, so having flunked his high school education, he got a job as soon as he could. He loved working. He loved interacting with people, but lacked having the discipline to get the things done and gain a financial reward. From that, he started his working career working as a teller for a bank and he learned how to Excel at customer service and to be a good teammate. He also learned how to balance a till, which wasn’t easy for an extrovert. From there, he moved into Liverpool city and to sell advertising space for a newspaper.

Jim Rembach: (01:04)
He did this for three years before being recognized as someone who could build teams to deliver projects to address the organization’s vulnerability ability for the year 2000 computer bug. This changed everything for column. He loved project management and love to build teams that people wanted to be part of. In a little over five years. He climbed the ranks to set up his first project department for the newspaper. Shortly after he left to head up a project department for a retail company who was transforming their culture. His family then emigrated to New Zealand where he spent six years changing project delivery cultures in government departments before moving to Australia. In 2015 he decided to quit his job and self published his first book and has written three more cents in his latest book culture fix. How to create a great place to work. Collin unravels the complexity of undertaking organizational culture change. The legacy he’s most proud to leave behind are two emotionally intelligent children who know how to treat people with kindness and possess common sense approaches to doing things well and to make people laugh. Collin currently lives in Melbourne, Australia with his wife, Julia and two children, Ted and Tesla. Sicily, although he spends most of his time in the air or hotels. Colin Ellis, are you ready to help us get over them?

Colin D Ellis: (02:27)
I totally, I’m David. That was the world’s longest bio. Uh, so that was, it was up there. That’s all 30 minutes done. Right. I’ll tell you.

Jim Rembach: (02:37)
Well, but you know, here’s the thing Collin, uh, and we’ll talk about this in a moment, um, is I, I uniquely do a longer bio that’s little bit more personal so we can create the human connections that are so important because if people really don’t know where you’re coming from, it’s really hard in order for us to be able to, you know, really see things in our self that we need to change and adjust and, uh, really affects the whole culture. So, I mean, if we’re reserving and holding those things back, how, how can we really connect? And so when we start talking about culture fix, I think it’s most important for us to really to ask the question, how do you define culture?

Colin D Ellis: (03:12)
Yeah. For me, culture is the sum of everyone’s attitudes, beliefs, behaviors, traditions, and skills. Jim, you know, and I think we’ve, we forget that cultures are made up of everybody. And you know, one of the things that I loved about the bio is, is that it kind of taught to my, some of my vulnerabilities, you know, the fact that, yeah, I wasn’t very good at balancing the tail and the bank, but I love talking to people and, and I think often, you know, great workplace cultures are made up of those little vulnerabilities, those little doorways that we, that we give in to open ourselves up a little bit. Also great workplace cultures or when we’re able to acknowledge that we’re not the smartest person in the room. Um, but they really are the sum of every single person within a team, uh, and, and how they work together.

Jim Rembach: (03:58)
Most definitely. And, and for you, you put together a really nice framework and you talk about input models, uh, and you then you talk about the output models. Uh, and so that those input models are those important pillars, uh, on being able to create a court, you know, a culture that every single organization, um, you know, really has the opportunity to impact an effective, uh, and measure, um, but oftentimes fail to do so. So if you could walk through those, those input, um, models, that input model of those six pillars.

Colin D Ellis: (04:33)
Yeah, sure. And I think Jim, you know, organizations are good. They’re either talking about the inputs or the outputs. I’ll talk about the inputs shortly. The good at talking about one or the two. But they very rarely connect the two together and say, Oh, well if we do all of this stuff really well, then we get that. Usually say they say, we’ve got this or we need to do that. And so, you know, you know, for culture fits the book. And as you mentioned, I was a permanent employee of other people’s coaches for 30 years. So I’ve got a fair bit of skin in the game. Um, is, you know, the things that I saw and when I researched the kind of great cultures around the world is that they were fundamentally six pillars, uh, in terms of input into culture. And so the first pillar is the personality and communication of its people.

Colin D Ellis: (05:18)
Because um, you know, if you don’t take the time to get to know each other, then you know, you’re never going to be able to create anything worthwhile. Then at the heart of every great culture is a vision and aspirational statement of the future and a set of core values and these provide the emotional compass for people. And then there’s agreement on the final three of pillars are around behavior, how we’re going to behave as human beings towards each other, collaboration, how we’re going to work together to achieve whatever it is we’ve set out to, um, and innovation, how we’re going to make time for new thinking. And all of those inputs apply to any kind of team in any country. Wherever you are in the world, it doesn’t matter whether you’re the Cleveland Indians, it doesn’t matter whether you’re working in a hospital, it doesn’t matter whether you kind of in government and in UK, um, yeah they apply everywhere.

Jim Rembach: (06:09)
When you start talking about those six though, I started thinking there is some potential cultural variances. Um, so when you start even thinking about emotional intelligence, you know, my myself from searching certified by MHS and emotional intelligence and one of the things that they found in their analysis of emotional intelligence is that while across the globe, there are some similarities. There are a few slight cultural differences. You know, when we start talking about loyalties and hierarchies and things like that, it can affect some of this. So when you start looking at these six inputs, what do you see does get potentially affected? You know, when you start looking culturally.

Colin D Ellis: (06:49)
Yeah. And, and, and that’s true of course is that, you know, um, Aaron May have found in a book the culture map, you kind of got an egalitarian approach and a hierarchal approach to coat check. And really that’s part of that personality and communication is really fundamentally understanding where everybody’s from, what kind of personality they have, but also the societal, you know, co cultural context as well. You know, being, you know, I’m originally from, from the UK, we’re very detailed in our thinking. You know, we don’t really talk about emotion much. If we want to talk about emotion, we generally talk about the weather, you know, Oh, it’s a nice day outside that Colin’s in a good mood. Um, whereas here in Australia it’s much more social, you know, kind of everything’s done over a barbecue. So it, you know, those are those societal context that we need to make sure that we fundamentally understand before we start to create this thing called culture. Because what you want to do is to create something that’s inclusive of everybody and it doesn’t hold certain cultures, um, on the exterior.

Jim Rembach: (07:48)
Okay. And as you’re saying that, I start thinking about, and because this is one of the things that has come, you know, quite open, uh, and I and a lot of different contexts, is that if we’re talking about a multinational organization, while they could, they could essentially set a particular tone, you know, and have a mission and vision. Ultimately culture is local and it has to be continually nurtured and focused in on locally for it to impact the global organization. Is that correct?

Colin D Ellis: (08:15)
Absolutely. Right. And we forget this Jim, you know, and, and I saw this at some of the organizations that I used to work at. The senior management team would go on an offsite somewhere. Really the swanky, they decide what the culture was. They would come back and they would tell you top down, this is what the culture is. And actually for me and my team, we were sat there going, yeah, nah, that’s not really our culture at all. We would do that hi EEQ thing. You’ve taken what they come back with and say, okay, how do we apply that? But to get great organizational culture, what you need is great subcultures. You know, so one of the case studies I used in the book, you know, I looked at an NFL team and if you’ve got a, you know, great attacking unit, you’ve got a great defensive unit, you’ve got a great kick in unit, quarterbacks are doing their things, all of those need to be really effective and efficient subcultures within your team.

Colin D Ellis: (09:01)
They all need to know their job, but they all need to create great culture themselves so that you get this overall great team culture that just knows how to work too often. What I used to see, Jim, you know, particularly in government is one area would be one thing. Another area would do another thing and another area do something different. So you get these communication mishaps, um, and, and you know, we call these silos and silos can be really good things provide and everyone’s doing something in a similar way where you’re absolutely right to say that, you know, you can’t upgrade organization culture without oven breaks of coaches.

Jim Rembach: (09:34)
Well, even when you’re starting to talk about that, and I draw myself back into the input models, right? And I started looking at personality and communication, vision, values, behavior, you know, collaboration and innovation. Uh, and, and if I start thinking about the transformation process, there are certain things that we can actually, um, use as ways to help carry us forward. So in other words, if I have this one, you know, and I’m doing pretty well at it and I strengthened that one, it’s easier for some of these other pillars to fall in place. Um, can, is there a reserve, you know, one of these or two of these that kind of stand out to say, Hey, okay, you know, this is, this is your core foundation, hip these and then work on the others.

Colin D Ellis: (10:17)
Yeah, it completely Jim. And, and again, a lot of this was based on my own experience. You know, I found the F on the first week of my new job. I spent time building relationships and getting to know people. That was foundation number one. Then as a team, we needed an aspirational vision statement. You know, something that would really excite us. Not some long winded statement that really meant nothing. And then I’ve been a set of core values, things that we all held to be true. When you’ve got those three things, what you’ve created is a solid foundation to agree how your behave, work to gather and introduce new ideas or innovate without those three. What you end up doing is being kind of listless as a culture. You can alert from one state to another and this is where from an output perspective you’d go through kind of all of the quadrants, which we’ll talk about in a second very, very quickly because you just don’t have a stable base to work from. Um, so I think, you know, getting to know each other, having a strong vision statement and a set of core values really provides the foundation for everything else really.

Jim Rembach: (11:23)
Okay. All right. So that’s very helpful. And then also when I look at the model and you start talking about those first three, which is what you were talking about, being some of the, those, those core foundational pillars and then transitioning into the behavior collaboration and innovation is that this is one of the areas that is of most, um, constraint for organizations is that they may be able to do a lot of this, you know, high level thinking stuff and put together, you know, a nice mission statement and all that stuff. But when you flip into execution and start hitting the whole behavior component, that’s where they oftentimes fall flat on our face. So how can they, how can they create, uh, a much better bridge to transition?

Jim Rembach: (12:03)
Yeah, it’s a advice I was given to an organization in the UK recently who said that they’d got a lot of the stuff I want. I’d read the book, they’ve got a lot of this stuff in place, you know, how do we start holding people to account, you know, and I said, you literally have to do a reset. I think most what most organizations fear is this concept of taking people out. They talk about cultivating the most important thing, but what they don’t want to do is take people out of work and prove that it’s the most important thing. I think once you agree, a set of core behaviors, what you’ve got is something to hold people to. If you don’t have that, then what people do is end up making excuses for behavior. And we’ve seen it for decades now. A gym, you know, particularly with behavior.

Jim Rembach: (12:43)
It’s the one thing that holds cultures back is, is either we don’t challenge poor behavior. We, we excuse it. You know, and I often say that you’re only as good as the behavior that you’ve walked past. Um, but you know, it really demands if, if culture truly is the most important thing, it really demands that you stopped performance manage individuals, which will mean doing the thing that we often fear most, which is going through a process of kind of performance management would hate John. Often they don’t want to go through either because that then sends the message that actually we’re deadly serious about this coat’s thing and we’re not going to allow anybody to behave in a way that gets in the way of what we’re trying to achieve.

Jim Rembach: (13:23)
Well, and you mentioned that in a book and you mentioned a couple things that are really key points in that, and that was one of them is that managers, you know, do not, you know, eh, actually set the expectation for one, um, and then therefore measure to that expectation, which could potentially include coaching up or coaching out. Right?

Jim Rembach: (13:43)
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, I, I talked about this in the book and you know, I talk about it a lot as often I feel for managers because, you know, for the last kind of, I don’t know, millennia, I suppose we’ve been pro promoting people based on length of tenure. Um, rather than that, our ability to really inspire and motivate people, which is what management and leadership is all about. Leadership really is it managers who make the choice to become a positive difference in people’s lives. You know, they choose to put themselves in service of others. Um, but a big part of that is learning how to set expectation and then how to hold people to that. And often we don’t, we don’t teach people how to do that. You know, we, we kind of learn from the people around us.

Jim Rembach: (14:25)
And certainly I learned from the people around us. I was very fortunate, um, probably in my 30 years of career to have maybe six people. And you know, you might think, Oh, that’s not very many one every five years. But those six people had such an impact in my life, you know, but they taught me kind of from a distance and coached me how to, how, how to set expectation, but also then how to have those courageous conversations that I didn’t necessarily want to have in a highly emotionally intelligent way. So without emotion and you know, keeping people honest to, to the promises that they’ve made and to make sure that they contributed to the organization’s success.

Jim Rembach: (15:01)
So when you start looking at, you know, these six, um, you know, the pillars in the an input model, um, obviously there’s some things that are outside of that, like this leadership strength component and element, uh, that are required in order for us to make impact in these particular areas. So that’s a key one. What are one of the other keys, uh, that thing that we need to pay attention to?

Jim Rembach: (15:26)
Well, I think self-awareness is, is, is critically important, Jim, you, you have to fundamentally understand yourself. What’s your own motivation? What are you trying to achieve? I think often people, when they do this kind of exercise, they focus on me and mine. What do I want to achieve for me without considering all of the people around them? And essentially if you, you know, kind of put the emphasis on helping olders and elevating others. So really developing those parts of yourself, then, you know, as a manager you get the payback from that because as a team you evolve and grow. But if you’re not aware of your own strengths, you’re not aware of your own opportunities for improvement, then really you’re always, that you’re only ever going to achieve half of what you’re capable of because you’re not really pushing yourself to that next level. Um, you know, and, and looking at the things that you, you know, and, and often, and you know, before we came on, we were having a quick chat. It’s one of those sacrifices that you’re going to make in order to, you know, become the person that you want to be. I think too many people are constrained by their own mindsets. Uh, rather than grabbing this thing called ambition by the Scruff of the neck, uh, developing their own purpose and, and throwing everything behind it.

Jim Rembach: (16:36)
Most definitely. I mean, I think to me that’s been a constant struggle all my life. And I don’t know if it’s ever going to change because I was even having this discussion earlier, I said, you know, I would rather take one step forward and two steps back cause at least I’m moving, you know, it’s, when I’m standing still, that’s a problem. Uh, and even when I started looking at people that I like to collaborate with, I don’t like people who just stand, I mean it’s like, Hey, let’s, if we, if we fail, we fail. I mean, at least that’s a, that’s a learning opportunity. But when I started looking at these input models and talking about these factors in these key points, ultimately we have to get to those output models. And I think I’m, this is probably a good time for us to talk about those.

Jim Rembach: (17:16)
Yeah. The output models, you know, they’re the really two thing. When you look at great organization of cultures, they have two things. They are highly emotionally intelligent people. Um, and who care, who care about each other, who cared about the team that they work at and who care about what the organization is trying to achieve. We call that engagement these days so that the high end emotional intelligence, they have high engagement. Um, when, when you have low engagement and low emotionally intelligent staff, you have a stagnant culture. You know, and in these cultures it’s quiet. There’s no consequence. No one’s holding you to anything. No ones that sat in any expectation, nobody really cares. People do nine to five. There’s lots of change aversion. You know, people actively avoid things that make them feel uncomfortable. And so nothing really happens in those kinds of stagnant cultures and just as Bateau Jim are pleasant cultures where even though we’re highly emotionally intelligent, engagement is still no so, so there’s a human factor to that.

Jim Rembach: (18:10)
So that’s a good thing. But there’s just no challenge. You know, we, we routinely missed deadlines. Everything is overly consultative. Um, everybody goes to every meeting. There’s document after document and process after process to try and make things happen. But really people don’t have the discipline. Then when you get to that high engagement, but low emotional intelligence, you get what we call combat and cultures. Everything here is a fight. Everything here is a battle. Lots of anxiety, lots of stress, lots and lots of poor behavior. So we generally call these coaches toxic. And so, you know, I talked about at the start, you know, we’ll, we’ll talk about the output models. So you’ll see this in the news all the time when things are broken. And there’s a pull in behavior in the workplace. But where you obviously want to be as a culture is we’re highly engaged employees who are high in emotional intelligence. These coaches have fiber. You know, you have an agreed vision, agreed behaviors, everybody’s pushed, everyone’s trying to be 5% better. Um, you know, there’s, there’s celebration, there’s laughter, you know, there’s a real desire to do things and succeed, but in the right way you carry no passengers. And, and this is where you get the results in these vibrant cultures.

Speaker 4: (19:23)
Okay.

Jim Rembach: (19:24)
And so, but when I look at this, talking about these input models and to get to the output models, uh, I often, you and I even talked, we were talking about this, talking about that off mic discussion. We started talking about timelines. This stuff does not happen quickly. I mean, what, you know, when we start talking about transformation timelines, what often do often do you see?

Jim Rembach: (19:48)
Yeah, it doesn’t happen quickly. That’s why most organizations don’t have the stomach for a gym. They want, what they want to do is quick fix approaches. You know, they want to go open plan. I mentioned they want to go on a field trip and copy what everybody else does. They want to bring in consultants to tell them what they already know. They want to do a rebrand exercise, they want to implement the latest system. Agile is the latest silver bullet that we’re implemented. Really, you know, only with deliberate effort can you ever change the culture and it takes between nine to 18 months and in that time what you’ve got to do is stay true to what you’ve all agreed. So I, you know, I talk about the fact that senior managers have to role model what they’re looking for and everybody else has to take responsibility for it.

Jim Rembach: (20:29)
And you get this meeting in the middle of like, you know, kind of likeminded souls who want to see the organization achieve. You also have to challenge those people who don’t want to be a part of it. And some of them don’t want to be a part of it cause it’s not what they want to do. That’s cool. You can go and get all the jobs or the people have to be performance managed out the business. And again, not sends the message sets the tone and you have to do something different every month, every month. So you know, for some organizations I do year long programs that I help them with. So it’s me coming back every month. For other organizations, I’ll just do a quick two day definition, but then help them map out what that might look like so that you’re getting new thinking new ideas every single month and you’re holding each other accountable.

Jim Rembach: (21:11)
Because once you’ve created this thing called the vibe and culture. So once you get all those inputs right and the output is a vibrant culture, stay in there is the biggest challenge, which is why you don’t get any sports teams that dominate for 15 2025 years. And in the UK and soccer there, they had Manchester United who really dominated for 20 years because culturally they got it absolutely right. You know, and they, they managed out certain players who were past their prime and they brought some new ones in and they brought younger players in. You know, there’s lots of sports metaphors, outlet book. You look at the big organizations that achieve year after year after year, it’s because they protect pay particular attention to their culture and they never stop growing and learning.

Jim Rembach: (21:55)
Well, I think that’s it. I mean it’s, it’s the, uh, you know, maintenance mode, that’s the continuous mode, right? Uh, okay. So we knew, and I had talked about this and you even mentioned it a moment ago, but all of this requires us to, you know, definitely, you know, have the energy and the inspiration and the sticktuitiveness and all that. And one of the things that we look at on the show or quotes to kind of help us do that. Is there a quote or two that you liked that you can share?

Colin D Ellis: (22:20)
Uh, it’s, it’s funny to have, you know, we were talking before, like the kind of world of inspirational quotes has really taken off. You know, and often I’m inspired by real life auctioneer. There’s a Winston Churchill quote that, that I love, which is never a, which I do love that one. That provides me with a little bit of daily motivation. Uh, you know, when I come across those little things that we all get stuck on. So I love that concept of never given up. Yeah.

Jim Rembach: (22:46)
No, matter of fact, I actually just quoted that one to my father earlier today who’s dealing with something that he has to change because of, uh, you know, uh, changes in his eyesight. I said, never give up that he goes, I said, I said, be a role model for your grandkids. He goes, Oh, okay, okay. So, but you know, Hey, there are times when we fall, you know, you had that transition. You talk about flunking out in your high school education. All those things are learning opportunities and we talk about getting over the hump on the show. Um, and I know that you have some good insights that you can actually share for us by sharing your story. Can you tell us about a time when you got over the hump?

Colin D Ellis: (23:25)
Yeah. Not too long ago, actually, Jim, you know, I quit my job in, in 2014 I was determined. I never wanted to work for myself. I thought I kinda, you know, had something that people would want to buy. I didn’t really know. I didn’t really know anything about starting a business. Um, and I, you know, saved up money for us to kind of live comfortably in a house for three months and I ain’t got nothing. I got nothing. Um, and so we, we came very close. You know, I was 40, uh, so 2015, early 2015, I was 45. We had two young kids. We came very close to it and to move back to the UK to live with offer and uh, you know, we really gambled everything. Uh, my mom had just been diagnosed with a brain tumor as well. Uh, Jim. So we had all of the stress, I lost confidence in myself.

Colin D Ellis: (24:16)
I didn’t really have much belief in what I was trying to do, but you know, never ever get booked by, you know, I found a way to really kind of motivate myself. You know, I, I thought that I had a good idea, you know, and I’m not the finished article. I’m only really kind of three, four years into what I’m trying to achieve here. And it’s been, it’s been pretty successful so far. Um, but that was really tough. Um, and because I had a, you know, the emotion to deal with and the kind of fact that we just asked no money. Uh, but we go through it.

Jim Rembach: (24:46)
Well, I mean, I would dare to say, um, and that listening to you talk about that, um, you know, there was some collaborative aspects and, and, and, uh, all of that, you know, between you and your wife. So when you start, you know, looking at an organization and when you started looking at that example and that situation, how important is team member support in your success?

Colin D Ellis: (25:12)
Oh, it’s, it’s crucial. And what you need, you know, we talk about leadership a lot, a Jim, we don’t really talk about followership. Um, and I think what we, what we need is good followership. And that means that anyone can lead at any time. And that we as a team all agree that whatever the leader thinks is the right thing to do, then we’ll follow and we’ll support. It’s something that I used to instill in, in, in my teams. And we didn’t used to call it followership. We used to call it being a good teammates. You know, we had this concept of being a good teammate. So every, you know, kind of big department. I lead, you know, we, we talked about what it meant to be a good teammate. You know, I often say with the work that I do and I do fly around the world, the law, which is just great and I love traveling to different parts of the world, but I couldn’t do what I do if I didn’t have the support back home to be able to do that.

Colin D Ellis: (25:59)
James. So, you know, we, we, we talk a lot. Uh, we make sure that we’re well-planned. You know, much like any great culture. There’s a lot of good planning goes into that. Uh, we make sure the different members of the team understand what’s happening and when we set expectation really when, you know, we, we kind of make sure that our behaviors are in check. So kind of a lot of the family stuff that we do here is, is learned from some of the great teams that I’ve been part of. And me and my wife, you know, strive to create the kind of environment where everyone can succeed regardless of what we’re doing.

Jim Rembach: (26:29)
Well, and I, and I appreciate you sharing that because for me, I was even having this discussion with somebody earlier today, you know, we oftentimes don’t have that conversation. You, we hit, we hit this a moment ago, don’t have that conversation with those people who are trying to drag else down and say, Hey, you know, that’s not okay. Um, oftentimes we concede, you know, to those people, you know, and then we bring those that have the joy, you know, and we pull it out of him in order to make this big middle. Um, and that’s not, you know, an inclusion thing that unfortunately is going to have some longterm success with it. So when I started looking at all that you’ve done made the transition, you know, writing the books, doing the speaking, doing the, the, the culture change work and all of that. When I start, you know, thinking about goals, can you share one of your goals with me?

Colin D Ellis: (27:20)
Uh, yeah. One of my goals is, is to be seen as someone who brought, provided a positive contribution to the world, Jim. That’s, uh, and it feels so glib say in that, cause I never thought I’d be that guy. But you know, when I decided to start my business and it was off the back of, you know, I went to a conference that I’d paid for, as, you know, as a permanent employee that really didn’t give me anything. And I felt like it was just a bunch of people trying to sell me something. And I, you know, what I wanted to do was almost to be the antithesis of that. You know, I remember speaking to one early in my career and they were like, Oh, if you’re going to write a book, don’t write how to do anything in there. You know, that’s what you want people to buy.

Colin D Ellis: (27:56)
I’m like, no, I’m not going to do that. I want to, you know, I want to create something. I want to be the kind of individual that, sure I’ve got a business to grow and water, but I want to be kind. I want to be empathetic. I want to give away knowledge. I want to give things back to a community that I would have been gladly part of. So, you know, one of my goals, you know, I, I ask myself every time we post something on LinkedIn, every time we do something like this, record videos, um, you know, I’m conscious of kind of the old man and you know, with the old me say, is this, provide an a positive contribution to the world? Uh, because yeah, that’s what I want to be known as

Jim Rembach: (28:32)
on the fast leader. Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

Jim Rembach: (28:38)
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Jim Rembach: (28:57)
four slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the, Oh, okay. Call him the hump day. Hoedown is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses. They’re going to help us move onward and upward faster. Colin Ellis, Allen D Ellis, are you ready to down? I’m ready now. All right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? What’s holding me back is not admitting to myself that I need to shut up every now and again. In the listener, what is the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?

Colin D Ellis: (29:39)
Uh, that you’re not the smartest person in the, and you should take on board other people’s ideas and learn from them.

Jim Rembach: (29:46)
What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Colin D Ellis: (29:50)
Uh, my never-ending energy. I look after my mind. I look after my body. I get to bed early so that I can do the best that I can throughout the day.

Jim Rembach: (29:59)
And what is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or lie?

Colin D Ellis: (30:04)
Uh, self-awareness. Uh, so that ability to be able to look at myself and say, here’s something that I’m good at. I should coach people. Here’s one thing that I need to learn.

Jim Rembach: (30:14)
And what would be one book that you’d rent to recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to culture fix on your show notes page as well,

Colin D Ellis: (30:23)
uh, on the road by Jack Kerouac. Cause it really opens up your mind to what’s possible in your life.

Jim Rembach: (30:29)
Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to a fast leader.net/colin D Ellis. Okay, Colin, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity, go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Colin D Ellis: (30:54)
A piece of knowledge that I would take back is how to communicate a message to different personalities. J I’m not something that I was at taught, but something that I learned how to do, which has held me in great stead for the last 20 years.

Jim Rembach: (31:10)
Collin, I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the fast leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Colin D Ellis: (31:14)
LinkedIn is the best place you can search for me. Colin D Ellis on LinkedIn. You can find out more about the work that I do at www dot culture fix X, Y, Z. And you can also find me on Facebook. Colin DLS, Instagram, Colin D Ellis as well.

Jim Rembach: (31:29)
Colin D Ellis. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 257: Colin D Ellis: You need great subcultures appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Colin D Ellis Show Notes Page Colin D Ellis gambled everything to launch a new business. As he struggled with clients not signing up, he lost his confidence and started to lose belief in his vision. Deciding to never give up he found a way to motivate ... Colin D Ellis gambled everything to launch a new business. As he struggled with clients not signing up, he lost his confidence and started to lose belief in his vision. Deciding to never give up he found a way to motivate himself and now helps others to invigorate their teams and transform their organizations.
Colin was born and raised in Liverpool, UK. He’s the eldest of three boys. His Dad went out to work every day, while Mum managed the household.
Growing up, he wasn’t academically gifted but flourished in a team environment. So, having flunked his high school education, he got a job as soon as he could. He loved working. He loved interacting with people but lacked having the discipline to get things done and to gain a financial reward from that.
He started his working career working as a teller for a bank. He learned how to excel at customer service and to be a good teammate. He also learned how to balance a till, which wasn’t easy for an extrovert. From there, he moved into Liverpool city to sell advertising space for a newspaper. He did this for three years before being recognized as someone who could build teams to deliver projects to address the organization’s vulnerability for the Year 2000 computer bug.
This changed everything for Colin. He loved project management and loved to build teams that people wanted to be part of. In a little over five years, he climbed the ranks to set up the first project department for the newspaper. Shortly after, he left to head up a project department for a retail company who was transforming their culture.
His family then emigrated to New Zealand where he spent six years changing project delivery cultures in government departments before moving to Australia. In 2015, he decided to quit his job and self-published his first book and has written three more since. In his latest book, Culture Fix: How to Create A Great Place to Work, Colin unravels the complexity of undertaking organizational culture change.
The legacy he’s most proud to leave behind are two emotionally intelligent children who know how to treat people with kindness and possess commonsense approaches to doing things well. And to make people laugh.
Colin currently lives in Melbourne, Australia with his wife and two children although he spends most of his time in the air or hotels!
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @colindellis to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“Culture is the sum of everyone’s attitudes, beliefs, behaviors, traditions, and skills.” – Click to Tweet
“Cultures are made up of everybody.” – Click to Tweet
“Great workplace cultures are made up of our little vulnerabilities.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=16146 https://www.fastleader.net/glebtsipursky/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/glebtsipursky/feed/ 0 <p>Gleb Tsipursky Show Notes Page Gleb Tsipursky and his wife set out to start a non-profit. But quickly they began to experience a lot of conflict trying to move things forward. Determined to successfully collaborate, they work to finally realize they had very different viewpoints and prospective on how to solve their problems. And they [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/glebtsipursky/">256: Gleb Tsipursky: Never go with your gut</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Gleb Tsipursky Show Notes Page

Gleb Tsipursky and his wife set out to start a non-profit. But quickly they began to experience a lot of conflict trying to move things forward. Determined to successfully collaborate, they work to finally realize they had very different viewpoints and prospective on how to solve their problems. And they also came to realize they both had issues with judgement errors. Now they help others to avoid their own decision-making disasters.

Gleb was born in Chisinau, Moldova, a small country in Eastern Europe, in 1981. It’s famous for being one of the least happy countries in the world. Fortunately for him, when he was 10, his parents took him and his little brother, who was born in 1986, to New York City. That’s where he was raised.

As a kid, his dad told him with utmost conviction and absolutely no reservation to “go with your gut.” He ended up making some really bad decisions. For instance, wasting several years pursuing a medical career. Gleb also watched his dad make some terrible choices that gravely harmed his family as his dad followed his gut, such as hiding some of his salary from his mom for several years. After she discovered this and several other financial secrets he kept, her trust in him was broken, which was one of the major factors leading to their later prolonged separation. Fortunately, they eventually reconciled, but the lack of trust was never fully repaired.

From that experience, Gleb started learning about the dangers of people following their gut reactions. His conviction that the omnipresent advice to “follow your gut” was hollow grew only stronger as he came of age during the dotcom boom and the fraudulent accounting scandals of top executives of Enron, Tyco, and WorldCom leading to ruined reputations and long jail sentences. The best explanation for their seemingly irrational behavior comes from their willingness to follow their guts.

As someone with an ethical code of utilitarianism – desiring the most good for the most number – Gleb felt a calling to reduce suffering and improve well-being through addressing these problems. Therefore, he devoted himself to the mission of protecting people from dangerous judgment errors known as cognitive biases, which devastate bottom lines and bring down high-flying careers. He focused on developing the most effective and profitable decision-making strategies, based on pragmatic business experience and cutting-edge behavioral economics and cognitive neuroscience, to empower leaders to avoid business disasters and maximize their bottom lines.

Studying the topic formally, doing research in cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics with over 15 years in academia, including 7 as a professor in Ohio State University’s Decision Sciences Collaborative, he shifted away from academia to devote his full-time efforts to business as the CEO of the boutique consulting, coaching, and training firm Disaster Avoidance Experts.

Dr. Tsipursky’s cutting-edge thought leadership has been featured in popular venues that include Fast Company, CBS News, Time, Scientific American, Psychology Today, The Conversation, Business Insider, Government Executive, The Chronicle of Philanthropy, and Inc. Magazine.

Gleb has conveyed all his experience to date in his book, Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters. The legacy he hopes to leave is to empower leaders to notice and address the kind of dangerous judgment errors that decimate so many careers and businesses.

He lives in and travels from Columbus, OH. In his free time, he enjoys tennis, hiking, and playing with his two cats, and most importantly, he makes sure to spend abundant quality time with his wife to avoid disasters in his personal life.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @Gleb_Tsipursky to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“I’ve seen so many leaders make terrible choices and then their followers suffer so much.” – Click to Tweet

“What we typically don’t consider is information that goes against what’s comfortable for us.” – Click to Tweet

“Our gut leads us to making some really bad choices.” – Click to Tweet

“You want to look at information that you didn’t consider that goes against your intuitions.” – Click to Tweet

“Think about all the ways that your plan can fail.” – Click to Tweet

“We all have some intuitive decision-making model in our head, but the vast majority of us don’t have a formal process.” – Click to Tweet

“There are many reasons why a pro-con list doesn’t work.” – Click to Tweet

“We tend to go way too long, not making a decision when we really should.” – Click to Tweet

“Are there opportunities you may be missing because you’re not making decisions?” – Click to Tweet

“Gather relevant information from a variety of perspectives; variety is critical.” – Click to Tweet

“Paint a clear vision of the outcome.” – Click to Tweet

“We don’t generate nearly enough options for important decision.” – Click to Tweet

“Weigh the criteria to the options that you have available.” – Click to Tweet

“Measure how well your decision is doing so that you’re able to revise it as needed.” – Click to Tweet

“We tend to assume everything will go according to plan.” – Click to Tweet

“Plans never survive contact with the enemy.” – Click to Tweet

“Failing to plan for problems is planning to fail.” – Click to Tweet

“The illusion of transparency, is the illusion that we are communicating much more effectively than we actually are.” – Click to Tweet

“Which of the 30 most dangerous judgement errors are you most prone to?” – Click to Tweet

“Your will-power is what you need to use to resist your gut intuitions and make wiser decisions.” – Click to Tweet

“We tend to be very black and white thinkers.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Gleb Tsipursky and his wife set out to start a non-profit. But quickly they began to experience a lot of conflict trying to move things forward. Determined to successfully collaborate, they work to finally realize they had very different viewpoints and prospective on how to solve their problems. And they also came to realize they both had issues with judgement errors. Now they help others to avoid their own decision-making disasters.

Advice for others

Become more emotionally aware and get in touch with your emotions.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

I’m a little too much of a perfectionist.

Best Leadership Advice

The feeling of comfort is not necessarily the feeling that is right.

Secret to Success

My ability to effectively collaborate with others.

Best tools in business or life

My ability to take effective breaks from work.

Recommended Reading

Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters (Avoid Terrible Advice, Cognitive Biases, and Poor Decisions)

Thinking, Fast and Slow

Contacting Gleb Tsipursky

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-gleb-tsipursky/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Gleb_Tsipursky

Website: https://disasteravoidanceexperts.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to give us some insights into how we can actually make some better decisions not falling back on our guts.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:11)

Gleb Tsipursky was born in Chisinau Moldova, a small country in Eastern Europe in 1981 it’s famous for being one of the least happy countries in the world. Fortunately for him, he was 10 his parents took him and his little brother who was born in 86 to New York city and that’s where they were raised as a kid. His dad told them with utmost conviction and absolutely no reservation to go with your gut. He ended up making some really bad decisions. For instance, wasting several years pursuing a medical career live. Also watched his dad make some terrible choices that gravely harmed his family as his dad followed his gut, such as hiding some of his salary from his mom for several years and after she discovered this and several other financial secrets he kept, her trust in him was broken, which was one of the major factors leading to their long separation.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:03)

Fortunately, they eventually reconciled, but the lack of trust was never fully repaired. From that experience, Gleb started learning about the dangers of people following their gut reactions, his conviction that the omnipresent advice to follow your gut was hollow, grew only stronger as he came of age during the.com bomb and the fraudulent accounting scandals of top executives of Enron Tyco, WorldCom, which led to ruin reputations and long jail sentences. The best explanation for their seemingly irrational behavior comes from their willingness to follow their gut. As someone with an ethical code of utilitarianism desiring the most good for the most number, glove felt a calling to reduce suffering and to improve wellbeing through addressing these problems. Therefore, he devoted himself to the mission of protecting people from the dangerous judgment errors known as cognitive biases, which devastate bottom lines and bring down high flying careers. He focused on developing the most effective and profitable decision making strategies based on pragmatic business experience and cutting edge behavioral economics and causing cognitive neuroscience to empower leaders to avoid businesses asters and maximize their bottom lines.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:20)

Studying the topic, formerly doing research in cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics with over 15 years in academia, including a seven years as a professor in Ohio state university’s decision sciences collaborative. He shifted away from academia to devote his fulltime efforts to business as the CEO of the boutique consulting, coaching, and training from disaster avoidance experts, dr supersedes cutting edge. Thought leadership has been featured in popular venues that include fast company, CBS news time, scientific America, psychology. Today, the conversation business insider, government executive, and the Chronicle of philanthropy and inc magazine glib has conveyed all his experience to date in his book. Never go with your gut. How pioneering leaders make the best decisions and avoid business disasters. The legacy he hopes to leave is to empower leaders to notice and address the kind of dangerous judgment errors that this decimate so many careers and businesses he lives in and travels from Columbus, Ohio. In his free time. He enjoys tennis, hiking and playing with his two cats. And, and most importantly, he makes sure to spend abundant quality time with his wife to avoid disasters in his personal life who have Zipursky. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (03:37)

Absolutely. Very happy to do session.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:40)

Well, I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (03:47)

Sure. So right now I’m really passionate about the topics. We’ve talked about how to help leaders avoid decision disasters. And the reason I’m passionate about this showed a little bit of this earlier, Jim, thank you for sharing that is because of my background, I’ve seen so many leaders make terrible, terrible choices and then their followers suffered so much, lost, so much money, lost so much morale. And it’s just devastating for me. I mean, I care a lot about people. My value such as utilitarian, so desiring the most good for the most number and when I see people make unnecessary bad choices is just, you know, heartbreaking for me. So that’s why I’m passionate about doing what I do. Helping leaders make much better decisions and avoid disasters.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:32)

Well, and I’m sure too, and I’m glad that you all even shared the experience as far as your family was concerned because you know, I always used to tell my mom that, you know, she’s a great role model and a lot of times it’s for things that I should not do.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (04:49)

Yeah. That’s my dad’s like that for me. Yup, exactly.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:52)

It’s just the way that it is. We are a role model for our children. It’s just the way that it goes. So, but when you, when you start talking about, you know, some of the common, I mean, they seem irrational, but yet they’re common mistakes that people make you, you know, in the book you start talking about different frameworks and decision making models and questionnaires and we’re going to hit on some of these things. But the first thing you talk about is five questions that, um, we need to ask in order to be able to avoid these decision disasters. Let’s walk through those five questions real quick.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (05:26)

Sure. And just to so folks know about the frameworks, my passion is solving problems. There are a lot of people who talk about, Hey, here’s how you’re screwed up, and the point is don’t Pat that right. Here’s how our brain is screwed up. There’s a lot of work out there for that. My book and my work is the, this book is the first one that actually focuses on business leadership and helps leaders actually solve these problems. And the five questions that Jim mentioned is a solution, one of the primary solutions to these problems. It’s something that you take just less than five to ask yourself before any decision that you don’t want to screw up. I need daily decision. We have more major decisions. There’s a more intense thing, but this is for daily decisions, writing emails, having meetings and are making decisions on investments that don’t matter as super much.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (06:12)

But it’s those. It’s the only ones. So first question, what important information did I not yet fully considered again? What important information did they not get fully considered? Now you want to look at imperfection. That’s only important. So decide what’s important. You don’t want to get stuck in Alice paralysis looking at all the fun stuff. Now you also want to look at information that you didn’t consider. That’s the other component of this question. And what we typically don’t consider is information that goes against what’s comfortable for us and information that goes against our gut reactions. Now, as you can tell from the title, never go with your gut. I talk a lot about how we should not go. Simply go with our gut. We should check with our head. And that’s because our gut leads us to making some really bad choices because we mistake the feeling of comfort when we’re comfortable with for the feeling of what’s true and what’s right for us at our careers in our businesses.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (07:09)

So you want to look at information that you’d been considered that goes against your intuition. So that’s the first question. Second, what dangerous judgment errors have we not considered? And these are cognitive biases and cognitive biases are the typical mistakes we as human beings make because of how the brain is wired, which we’ll talk about later in the show. And they talk about the 30 most common dangerous judgment errors in the book. Never go with your gut. How pioneering leaders make the best decisions and avoid business disasters. Third, what would a trusted and objective advisor tell you to do? So imagine a little gym on your shoulder. What would he tell you to do as you’re making your decisions? Think about that image or other trusts and objective advice. Now those first few questions are about actually making the decision. The last two questions are about implementing the decision.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (07:57)

So the first of those, or the fourth question on the questionnaire is how could I considered all the ways this could fail? Now, one of the typical cognitive biases we run into is called the planning fallacy. Where we make plans that are based on the assumptions that everything will go fine. That’s our intuitions. We are very comfortable with that assumption, but everything will go well. But how often have your plants survive contact with the enemy? The way to address that in advance is to think about all the ways that your plan can fail. Address all the problems that you can in advance by preventing them, addressing them, and also building in more resources for things you can’t visit. So that’s the forefront. And finally what would cause me to revisit what new information caused me to revisit this decision. You want to really think about this in advance before you’re actually in the heat of the moment and implementing the decision.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (08:51)

Because when you’re implementing the decision, you are committed to the decision, you’re, you’re much more likely to follow through with whatever plan you made even when you shouldn’t. Even when you should. We’ll talk later about some judgment errors as we make when we should not follow through with a decision. So you want to decide in advance what could cause you to revisit the decision, especially if it’s part of a team decision making process. Because there are always going to be some people who may not agree with a decision and then you don’t want to run into the situation where they’ll say, Oh I told you so. You know this is what’s a change of minds. You will not agree as a group what would cause you to revisit that decision and then revisit it only if that situation arises. So those are the five simple, clear questions you can ask. Take less than five minutes do so. And if one the answers doesn’t make you happy and it takes more than five minutes, believe me, it’ll be very much worth it to explore it in more depth from the perspective of not losing time and money down the road.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:46)

You know, and as you’re talking glove, I start thinking about, you know, say an, you know, an artisan or a mechanic. It’s, you know, using the right tool, you know, for the problem that’s in front of them. And the fact is that we’re using tools all day long. Um, it’s whether or not we’re using, you know, the using the right tool and then using that tool correctly. And so your book, you know, gives us a lot of these frameworks including the questionnaire to talk about that we’re going to go over, you know, in order to help people to make sure that they are pulling the right thing at the right time and using it in the right way. And one of the things that you have is the eight step decision making model a. And cause you even mentioned it’s you’re like, okay, well everybody has some model they use. It’s whether or not you have one that works well, you know and that you know how to use it. So they go through the eight step decision making model so that we can hopefully make better decisions.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (10:35)

Sure. So this is a model unlike the questionnaire which you should ask forever for daily decision making for all the little things that you don’t want to screw up when your daily life. This eight step decision making model is for more significant decisions and Jim, right? We all have some kind of intuitive decision making model in their head, but the vast majority of us haven’t threatened it out. We don’t have a formal process. I mean the best we do is a pro con list and there’s many reasons for why pro con list doesn’t work, which we can talk about, you know, if that comes up. But there’s a lot of things that don’t work. And only recently have we been discovered in Houston, cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics, what is called evidence-based business. Now, evidence based medicine has actually arisen up in the last couple of decades. We’ve really been making a lot of mistakes medicine because we haven’t been testing it.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (11:27)

We haven’t been testing what’s actually working and what’s not. Now with testing what’s working business and what’s not, and this is a decision making model that has been shown to work effectively as opposed to the large majority of models. Intuitive models that don’t. So the first step, you identify the need for decisions to be made. Now that seems simple. You know, what’s the needs, right? Well, unfortunately we as human beings tend to go a long way too often not making a decision. When would it really should make a decision? It feels often uncomfortable to make a decision. We much prefer to leave it in the hands of other people, you know, Oh, let somebody else make the decision, not not me. I shouldn’t be the responsible one. Let somebody else do go ahead and take the responsibility. Well, I mean if you don’t take responsibility, who will?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (12:16)

Right though this responsibility may never be taken and then you’ll, the whole situation will be quite problematic. If you don’t identify the need for decisions to be made. So the first step is scan your environment, but it constantly for the need for decision to be made. That is your environment. Shifting is S is a situation becoming more problematic in some way? And then what kind of decisions did you want to make? So that’s the risk. Also opportunity. Are there opportunities that you may be missing because you’re not making decisions? So scan your environment for opportunities as well. That’s first. Then gather relevant information from a variety of perspectives. A variety is critical here. We tend to, when we gather information, ask only the people who agree with us already and we go to them because we both feel good about them. Our gut intuitions, our gut, we’ll feel good about the responses.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (13:08)

You know it’s the yes men and women. You don’t want to only hear these people. You want to go to people who you know, whole perspectives, contrary to what to your decision to your perspective and get their ideas. You don’t need to follow them, but you need to share them out. So that’s really important. Then you want to decide on the goals. It’s the third step. Paint a clear vision of the outcome. So often we go ahead with a decision not knowing what the actual goal should be. We don’t have a clear vision of what we want to reach. We just think, Oh, we should make a decision. Like let’s say you know, we should make a new model car model and we don’t think about what is the goal, what does the outcome of a car model of want to make or do, we should launch a new product and we don’t think about the goal, the outcome of this new product.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (13:53)

So these are serious problems that people tend to find and then develop a clear decision making criteria to evaluate the options with the options of the decisions that you’re choosing. And that’s a big problem. People often look at the options, you know, I have these five options. What does really, what you should start with is develop the criteria before you look at the options before. Because if you look at the options in advance, you will have prejudice yourself and you will intuitively tend to prefer one of the options and you won’t think about the right criteria. So if you’re hiring somebody, decide is the salary that they are requesting the most important thing or is there a fit for the job, the most important thing? Or are there technical skills? The most important thing and how would you weigh these? So it’s not that example.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (14:39)

Then generate viable options to achieve your goals. So that’s the options that we’re talking about. So look at all the options. Now, a mistake that extensive research has shown is that we don’t generate nearly enough options for important decisions. We tend to lead those, tend to make fast decisions. And that’s a big problem. You know, we’re in the fast leader podcast. The leaders tend to make decisions way too quickly because they settle on the first option that comes along that seems good enough and they don’t maximize, you know, they can take 15 more minutes, half an hour and get a decision that will be 50% more good. That’s, that’s so often the case and they make the mistake of not taking the time to make a wise decision.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:21)

Great segue. Hold on. I’ve got to stop right there. Go ahead. Because that’s exactly why we call it the fast leader show so that we can learn these systems and frameworks because that ultimately in the wrong long run from the longterm view we do, we do actually just, I mean from a velocity perspective we go significantly faster because if we don’t do these things correctly, as I’m sure you deal with every single day, I mean people just tell they’re doing the same thing over and over. It’s just insane decision making process. And do you think you’re moving faster? You know, fast leader, I mean you’re a boat anchor and you’re weighing everyone down. So I you setting me up for that. Sure.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (15:57)

Happy to do so. Jim, I was wondering if you’d comment on that. I was a little bit provocative, right? But in my experience, it’s not that people tend to go faster when they make these decisions. It’s that they tend to not go into the ditch because you know that’s when you really are going to be in trouble and really not going anywhere fast. So that’s the fifth one. Next, weigh the options. So again, I told you earlier about thinking about which of these credit decision making criteria is more important. The salary demand of someone they’re fit for, the job, their technical skills, whatever way their criteria according to the options that you have available next, implement the option that you chose. So and finally evaluate the implementation process. You don’t want to just say, okay I’m implementing, that’s great. We’re finished. You want to measure, you want to measure how well the decision is doing so that you’re able to devout to revise it as nude in the process. So that’s a really important last step. But people often tend to miss and they should not miss. So that’s the eight step process for significant major decisions.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:05)

Yeah. And the reason we have to have that and then you’ve kind of hit it on it here and there. As you tired of talking about biases and things associated with that. I mean you’re studying through behavioral economics and neuroscience and all of these other things, uh, you know, brain, all the brain activity and thing that we’ve learned about just within the past couple of years, you know, and why all this occurs. So if you can just kinda hit on some of those core major biases that oftentimes are, are being used, uh, on us and upon us and we’re being victimized too, that we’re just not aware of.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (17:38)

Sure. So we have a lot of cognitive biases that, so several of them will, or you talked about in the program, one is the planning fallacy that they might mention that we tend to assume everything will go according to plan. Now the planning fallacy comes up most often when people think, Oh, you know, planning to fail, a failing to plan is planning to fail. So people think that I need to make a plan because otherwise I’m going to fail. Unfortunately, that’s often a bad idea. And here’s why. We tend to make plans as STO, they will come true. We tend to plan for the best case outcomes and that is going to be a problem when we invest our resources and make a commitment based on these plans. In reality, we don’t tend to plan for all the problems that will come along. There’ll be many problems with calm that will screw up your plans.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (18:27)

You know, plans never survive contact with the enemy, but we tend to make plans as still they do so much better. Strategy is thinking to yourself. Failing to plan for problems is planning to fail. So again, failing to plan for problems is planning to fail. That’s a much better way of thinking about this planning fallacy or another one that I like to talk to folks about is the illusion of transparency and this is especially relevant since we’re talking here in a podcast and you’re listening to me. The illusion of transparency is the solution that we are communicating much more effectively than we actually are communicating. We tend to think that whatever we say, whatever we convey, the other person understands a hundred percent accurately and 100% effectively and we don’t tend to check for their understandings. Now, if I’m, when I’m doing a presentation, I do a lot of training as consulting and coaching.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (19:19)

What I do is I make sure to check the audience sexually understanding what I’m saying. Are they actually getting the information? I’m not just lecturing at them. I’m having a two way communication can do it on the podcast, unfortunately, but that’s something that you need to think about when you’re communicating with others. Are you falling for the illusion of transparency when you’re thinking that whatever you’re saying is a hub being a hundred percent understood by the other party. Another one that plugs into the illusion of transparency, the planning policy and so many others. It’s called the overconfidence bias. Now, that’s what it sounds like. We as human beings tend to be much more confident that we are accurate and we’re correct than we actually are. It’s especially a big problem for leaders. Leaders tend to be more overconfident than most people. And so I’ll give you an interesting example when studies have shown that when people say that 100% confident about something, you know that they’d bet the house on it that are actually right about 80% of the time.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (20:19)

Now think about this. If you have to make a bet, the company move, you’re very confident that this is going to be right. If you’re making a bet that Cuttery or move bet your career move, you’re only likely to be a right 80% of the time, 80% of the time. No wonder that so many companies go bankrupt in a surprising manner. So many people that are covering years are brought down in a surprising manner because of these sorts of problems. So those are just free out of the 30 dangerous judgment editors that I talk about in my book and I can talk about more, but I’ll stop there and let Jim have a chance. Well that’s, well, that’s why we have to get the book right. I mean 30 but what you do is you talk about 12 techniques that you can actually use in order to be able to address these dangerous judgment errors.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (21:05)

So if we could, maybe we should just run through those. Sure. Happy to talk about them. And like I said, a lot of folks talk about what are the dangerous judgment centers. My focus isn’t on how you actually can address them, can fix them. And so the techniques I’ll go through and follow as opposed to the 30th most dangerous judgment enters, which are can check out my book. So the first one you want just to make, be very clear about these are these are mental habits that you can develop. Unlike the questionnaire or the eight step decision making model. The questionnaire for casual everyday decisions. The question, the eight step model for major significant ones, these are mental habits that you develop and integrate into yourself. It takes a while to learn to develop these mental habits. It takes a long time to develop new mental habits.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (21:49)

I mean, remember when you learn to drive a car, it took a while to do that. Now you can do it on autopilot. That’s automatic. It’s comfortable for you. But it took a while to learn how to do that. And the same thing applies to the mental habits itself. Talk about right now, first you want to identify and make a plan to address dangerous judgment debtors. So that involves identifying which dangerous judgment earners you as an individual are most prone to. I’ll give a example about myself. I tend to be prone to the optimism bias. So the optimism bias is kind of what it sounds like. It’s the tendency to be too optimistic. You know, I tend to think that the grass is green on the other side of the Hill and the glass is half full. My wife on the other hand is much more pessimistic.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (22:32)

She suffers from a pessimism bias, unrealistically negative evaluation of the future. She thinks the glass half empty and the grass is yellow and the other side of the Hill. So we can sometimes have tensions, but we can, we can correct for each other’s deficiencies. So you want to know which of the 30 most dangerous judgment errors you’re most prone to and make a plan to adjust. Second delay your decision making before making any decision. You want to delay it to check whether to check with your head about your intuitive gut decision making. We tend to approach any decisions with our gut. Now, research has shown that about that in our decision making, about 80 to 90% of our decision making is driven by the gut intuitions. So you want to step back from your gut intuition and check whether it’s counting to 10 for very small casual decisions, asking the five questions for any decision they lead decision you don’t want to get it wrong or using the eight core steps for major decision making.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (23:30)

Then mindfulness meditation. Now you might be surprised by this and I’m talking to you’re very clearly very specifically about not about Hulu stuff, but about meditation, sitting down and doing breathing exercises like talk about that in the book and meditation techniques that have been shown by research to be effective. Why is that important? Because it builds up your focus and your focus is what you need to do. Your willpower is what you need to use to resist your gut intuition and make wiser decisions. Then make predictions about the future. Why is that important? Because we tend to be much more optimistic and confident about the quality of our decision making than we are than we actually are. And you probably see other folks who around you who think that they’re much better decision makers than they actually are. So how you can square the circle is when you look at your own decision making, make predictions about how well your decisions all turn out and have other people with whom you collaborate.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (24:28)

Make predictions about how well their decisions will turn out. And that’s way you can calibrate yourself and you can adjust yourself for more accurate decision making and help other people do so. Next, consider that an alternative explanations and options. So consider alternative explanations and options for various decisions that you want to go into. Now you want to be careful not you. Again you we w we tend to be very inclined to go with our intuitive comfortable decision making and we don’t consider other ways we can go other options for making choices and other explanations for phenomena around us. You know, if somebody, let’s say makes a remark that we see as offensive to us or is short tempered with us, we tend to attribute hostile intent to this person, whereas really it’s most likely someone who was being careless or unthoughtful and you want to consider all of these alternative explanations for the, for the free market.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (25:28)

Another one is probabilistic thinking ties into making predictions about the future. Probabilistic thinking is estimating the likelihoods of certain situations happening now. How many percent is that like we know this is very intuitive to us. We tend to be very black and white thinkers. We tend to think something either will happen or will not happen or the other option that some people will say is me now that’s a very fuzzy option. Those are very fuzzy options. Sense. What about saying, you know, this is 10% likely to happen. This is 30% likely to happen. This a 70% likely to happen. You want to be able to train yourself to make these evaluations because then you can make much better decisions. If you have those estimates in your head, then could send the past experiences. This is a very good fix for the planning fallacy. You know, I’ve worked with clients who tell me that, you know, Oh, this project has taken every time we have a situation where we make a bid on a project, we say it’s 2 million and then it takes us 3 million to do this.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (26:26)

Have manufacturing companies in Pittsburgh for example. That’s what client I worked with and they asked them, well, if he know that in the past that has always taken you a million more, 50% more, why don’t you bid more? Why don’t you actually invest that amount of money, make a plan for that amount of money. And the guy who was saying not sure why, and that’s the, that’s one very effective way of addressing the planning fallacy and number of other problems. Look what happened in the past and use that to inform the future and then consider the longterm future repeating scenarios. We tend to be very short term oriented as human beings and that’s a phenomenon related to a cognitive bias called loss aversion. We want to not lose things, we want to go and we tend to think about losing things as a really bad thing.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (27:18)

What is in the theology making short term losses for much bigger longterm gains is a very effective strategy for the future and we tend to fall for the danger of reaping short term profits at the expense of much bigger longterm gains. Then consider other people’s perspectives. We are very, so when you look at a people and you say for a team member, when I work with teams and I ask them, how much have you contributed to so leadership team, the C suite of a corporation, how much have you contributed to the overall success of the leadership team? How many percent would you say is your contribution? I don’t remember the last time when the total sum, when everyone has added up, their contribution has been lower than 150% so we have that really serious problem where people tend to overestimate their contributions. They tend to overestimate.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (28:13)

It’s very intuitive. It’s very natural for us to be inwardly oriented. But with then, if we don’t think about other people’s perspectives, we get into serious trouble down the road when we get into clashes and conflicts. Next set up policy to set up policy or use an outside view to get an external perspective. So I mentioned about that. That’s number question three. What would a trusted and objective advisor suggest you do you know? What would Jim suggest you do? Somebody who you trust, somebody who has an objective advice. Then question a point 11 mental habits. 11 set up policy to graduate future self and your organization. This is going to be especially important once you have understood that our gut intuitions tend to cause us to make bad decisions. So something that I work with a lot of clients. I have the mics short to commit to using the five questions before making any medium term and you everyday decision and the eight questions.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (29:09)

So eight step model for major decisions. So they set a policy for themselves and for their organizations and that helps them really address a lot of problems down the road when they make a commitment in the moment to making much better choices, protests, choices down the road, finally make a pretty commitment. That refers to making a public commitment that other people know about quota relevant to certain policies and certain decisions. That’s especially helpful. I’ll give you the one example where that’s helpful. That’s really helpful when you want to change your internal culture of an organization to make it acceptable to criticize the leadership or pass negative information up the ranks, you know, otherwise you get into the problem of whistle blowers who don’t want to share their information. I mean, you know, that’s, that’s a really big problem. It’s a really big issue when negative information is not passed up the ranks and then suddenly the company’s in big, big trouble.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (30:05)

Everybody knew that was about it except the leadership team. So you make a precommitment by saying, Hey, we’ll give praise, will give raises, we’ll give promotions, whatever to people who pass negative information up the ranks. And that’s a one way of making you pick another one can be, you know, make a Facebook post telling all your friends, I will lose 20 pounds in the next three months or I will make a donation to this charity that I really hate. That’s another way of making a public commitment in your personal life. So those are 12 mental habits that you can develop that would make it much easier for you to untrust the dangerous judgment editors that causes so much trouble.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:45)

Hi, I think they are. Last suggestion is a really good one. I want to do this, otherwise I’m going to donate to something I hate. Now that’s a good preventative maintenance tool. Okay. So I think what you went through right there, people could actually sit there and say, Oh my gosh, this is daunting. The fact is is that it’s more daunting to make bad decisions and have to do things all over again. And it also, you know, tarnish any type of, you know, trust or credibility or you know, anything that’s associated with that. And in all due respect, like you said, which is so important is people need to know that, okay, this is what I do. Or simple, shorter, you know, types of decisions, midterm, you know, types of decisions and all of that. But I think it’s really important for everybody to know at all different levels of an organization that we need to have structure to our ability to decide better. Because if we do fall back on our intuition, and one thing I say is, you only know what’s been put in. And in today’s world of rapid, you know, change and extensive, you know, diversity and complexity, it’s impossible. And you said it, you said it yourself, you look, you can’t know it all.

 

Speaker 4: (32:02)

[inaudible]

 

Jim Rembach: (32:03)

even if you gathered all the perspectives of all the people who work in your organization, regardless of the size of it, you still aren’t going to know it all. Yeah. So if I start thinking about, you know, weirdly where to start in all of this, um, I need a starting point because if, like I said, if not, I look at all this, I’ll be like, this is just way too daunting, right? So where do I start, cliff?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (32:27)

Well, I like to remind people that of something that a lot of their members, mothers probably said, you know, when you’re angry, count to 10 and that’s the essence of number two, delaying decision. You know, do you, when you’re angry, count to 10 or do you just kind of mild fall off and shut off that rapid email? Now just hopefully you do count the 10 like your mom said. Now just apply that to all of your decisions first. Start by delaying decision-making, count to 10 and then use the five questions. That’s a very, very easy start. It’s a very easy way to get into it. So Delaney decision making by 10 seconds and that should give you time to check with your head as opposed to going with your gut and for any decision that you don’t want to screw up in your daily life.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (33:12)

You know there’s some decisions that don’t matter right now. Where do you go to get your sushi? Probably not that bad unless you know there’s a, you know there’s a disreputable place and you have sickness, then you don’t want to do that. But in your reputable place you should be okay. But if you want to make a more serious decision, you know, how do you write a complex email to your supervisor about a problem that’s happening? That’s definitely where you want to use the five questions. So what I have is I have all my clients have the five questions setting in front of them on this handout or the decision aid handout. And that’s very easy. They have it them, they have it all the time in front of them. So that’s a very, very easy to wait to get into the process. Just use those five questions to make any daily decision. And after that, if you find them useful, which I can pretty much guarantee you will, you can start doing the more complex things like the eight steps or the 12 mental habits. So that’s what I advise people to do.

 

Jim Rembach: (34:12)

Well that’s very helpful. Okay, so, and it’s funny that you said that. I mean I think just about growing, growing up almost every day, my mother’s response to anything I brought to her was, okay, count to 10 Sharon. Okay. So knowing that when I start thinking about all those, so you know, we need tools, we need frameworks, we need inspiration. And one of the things that we look for on the show are quotes to help inspire us. Is there a quote or two that you liked that you can share?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (34:41)

So something that I mentioned, I like to challenge quotes, but the quote that I really like that is from Ben Franklin is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So that’s probably the most powerful quote that I like. The ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It’s something that we don’t think about nearly enough, but announced that preventing disaster is worth a pound of cure. So that’s one quote I love. I like to tell people you should go with it. The quest, the quotes that I challenge is go with your gut, which you shouldn’t do. That’s a powerful quote. Many people say you shouldn’t do it. Another one that I challenged and that you already know about this failing, failing to plan is planning to fail. I challenged that. Failing to plan for problems is planning to fail. So those are things that people should think about. Those are chow, those are quotes that challenged. But the first quote, I fully support. Yeah.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:33)

Thank you for sharing all of those. Okay. So there are times, however, where we haven’t done a good job following these frameworks and not all that, you know, and we’ve made mistakes and we learn them hopefully. And then next time when we approach them, you know, we don’t get fall into some of those biases. Right? Uh, so, uh, we talk about getting over the hump on the show because there’s a lot of, you know, lessons that can be learned from that so that hopefully we make the corrections, uh, going forward. But we need people to share those stories. Is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (36:04)

So one of the biggest challenges I’ve had was a situation about five months ago, I’m sorry, five years ago when in 2014 and I’ve been married to my wife since 2003 by that time. But that, but that 11 years after our marriage was probably the most challenging period in our met in our marriage. Yet we had many more conflicts, many more stresses than we ever had before. And that was because I was doing my separate consulting. She was doing her separate consulting. At that point we decided to create a nonprofit organization devoted to popularizing the research on cognitive neuroscience and being able to economics and decision making called intentional insights. And what we learned and what we were doing. We were creating this organization, planning it out and you know, and that was coming up with all of these ideas about, Hey, this is great, this is going to be great.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (36:53)

And she was like, no, that’s not going to work. What are you talking about now that’s a bad idea. And so we had a lot of conflicts, a lot of tensions, a lot of stresses and we talk things out. We kind of eventually went on a higher level of like how do we collaborate together? Why, why, why is this happening? That’s when I discovered that I’m an optimist. I tend to see the grace, the grass is greener on the other side of the Hill and she’s a pessimist. She tends to see the grass as yellow on the other side of the Hill. So that was a big problem and a big revelation. We haven’t really thought about that before because we never collaborated with any serious matter before. I had my own worksheets for homework. Right? So what we figured out that really helped me with teams, team leadership later on the board.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (37:34)

And team coaching later onward was that there is a much more effective way for optimists like myself to collaborate with pessimist like her. I take the step of creating communities. So here are 20 ideas that I generate, LA, LA, LA, LA LA, and she sees them and I pass them on to her as half-baked ideas. And then she chooses, you know, a couple of those ideas and says, okay, you know, all of the rest of the ideas, let’s, let’s put them aside these two ideas, you know, there may be worth finishing baking. And then she improves them and goes on to kind of perfecting them. And that’s her strength. She, she’s very bad at generating ideas. She’s much better than me at perfecting them, getting them into good shape. And so that’s when we really got over the hump once we learned this method of collaborating together and we were able to really flow at that point because I was generating ideas, she wasn’t proving, generating, improving generation per week. And so that’s really helped us work together going forward. And that’s how about, so two years ago when we created a disaster avoidance experts were combined her consulting business nonprofits and my consulting business and businesses to enter together to work on a joint. The consultant coach can training firm is what I’ve never been possible if we hadn’t discovered that about ourselves and learned how to collaborate better going forward.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:51)

Well thanks for sharing that. I mean cause even that you started talking about, you know, the different viewpoints and different perspectives, but still moving beyond that and doing the collaboration component because I think so many times people just stop there. It’s like, Hey, there’s too much work that needs to be done, but, but the reality is if you can actually get through that work, the outcome is significantly greater because the synergies, it’s the typical one plus one actually equaling equaling three totally is when I start thinking though. I mean yeah, you and I had the discussion prior to even recording when I looked at this book and I’m like, Oh my gosh, there’s just, there’s so much information and insight and in depth all of these things. I said glove. I said, well, the way I look at this, you actually have created a the foundation for your next six volumes. I mean, cause you can easily split all this out and go into greater depth. But you know, so when I started looking at that and you know, talking about, you know, you were in academia and you’re working now on the private, you know, private sector having your own business and doing consulting. I started thinking about some of the goals that you have. So with all this that you’re doing, what’s one of your goals?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (39:52)

Well, my personal passion is to really seriously change the way that people think about decision making for leaders everywhere to be aware that they are decision making, intuitive decision making process is far from perfect, let’s say to euphemistically and then use effective strategic techniques to address their decision making problems. So my goal is to, for my work to make a really large contribution to this year. And you’re right, you know, this is a first book. It’s a framework book and I hope to write many more books. This book really talks about the problems and solving them in an overarching 30,000 foot perspective. My next books plan to dive deep into various specific aspects of decision making and how we can improve them. So I hope to have a career writing about this, talking about this consulting and coaching about this when I can really make a significant difference to reducing suffering in the world for improving leadership decision making

 

Jim Rembach: (40:49)

and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Speaker 5: (40:55)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com board slash

 

Jim Rembach: (41:15)

better. Alright, here we go. Fast leader Legion.

 

Speaker 5: (41:17)

I’m from the home. Oh bow. Okay, glad the hump. Hold on. As a part of our show where you get us good insights fast, ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are helping us move onward and upward. But

 

Jim Rembach: (41:34)

it’s the Persky. Are you ready to hoedown?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (41:36)

I’ll do my best. All right.

 

Jim Rembach: (41:38)

What is holding you back from being an even better?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (41:42)

I think what’s holding me back is my desire to do things a little bit better than they should be done. I’m a little bit too much. I’m a perfectionist and I’m trying to work in that, but that’s difficult for me.

 

Jim Rembach: (41:54)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (41:57)

Well, the best leadership advice actually was when I was learning about the decision making and for me to the advice to not trust my gut feelings. That’s the feeling of comfort is not necessarily at all the feeling that is right of right. What is true, what is right, what is best. That was incredibly helpful advice that I got from my mentor at graduate school when I was learning about the kind of screwed a brain that we have.

 

Jim Rembach: (42:21)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (42:25)

I think one of my biggest secrets is my ability to effectively collaborate with others. Now the way I do that, my secret to doing that is to always think about myself as the adult in the room. So think of myself as the adult in the room. That means that if the other person is behaving in a problematic way, I should not stoop to their level. I’m always going to be kind of much emotionally mature and see what’s driving them to engage in this problematic behavior and try to accommodate them in a way that still enables me to achieve my goals.

 

Jim Rembach: (42:58)

And what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (43:02)

I think my, one of my best tools is my ability to take effective breaks from work occasionally. I used to be a person who worked very long stretches of time, period of self time, and they eventually had burned out at a certain point. I had to really take a lot of time back. Now I learned how to have much better work life balance and taking appropriate periods of breaks after, during long periods of work that has really helped me succeed going forward.

 

Jim Rembach: (43:29)

And what is one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any genre, of course, we’re going to put a link to never go with your gut on your show notes page as well.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (43:39)

The one of the really good books in the topics that I talk about is thinking fast and slow by Daniel condom on. So here’s one of the four runners actually discovered all the ways that our brain is screwed up. And he wrote a really interesting complex book about these topics and that goes in depth into each of these cognitive biases. So for people who want to learn more about the topics that I talk about and specifically about all the ways that our Britain’s crewed up. Great.

 

Jim Rembach: (44:06)

Okay. Fast leader Legion, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net forward slash club super ski. Okay. And so Persky is actually uh, spelled T. S. P. U. R. S. K. Y. Okay. Glove. This is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (44:32)

or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? Hm. The most, the thing that I would take back is emotional awareness. I’m much more emotionally aware, much more in touch with my emotions. And this might sound weird, but it’s really not because emotions as I mentioned before, drive 90% of our 80 to 90% of our decision making. And there were a lot of dumb decisions I made when I was 25 and older. That came from me not being aware of how my emotions were driving me to make poor decisions. So being much more emotionally aware of my emotions and what’s causing me to make decisions would have been so helpful when I was 25 glad I’ve had fun with you today. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you? They can check out my book. Never go with your gut. How pioneering leaders make the best decisions and avoid business disasters and Amazon, Barnes, noble, any bookstore around you, so props to your bookstore especially. They can check out my website, disaster avoidance experts.com again, that’s disaster avoidance, expensive. Come and sign up for my wise decision maker guide list of resources there is disaster appointments, express.com/w DMG and they can always email me if they want to answer any questions about when you think they heard about in the podcast. That’s globe G L E B at disaster avoidance expert stuff. Calm, happy to answer your questions.

 

Jim Rembach: (45:54)

That’s a pesky. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 256: Gleb Tsipursky: Never go with your gut appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Gleb Tsipursky Show Notes Page Gleb Tsipursky and his wife set out to start a non-profit. But quickly they began to experience a lot of conflict trying to move things forward. Determined to successfully collaborate, Gleb Tsipursky and his wife set out to start a non-profit. But quickly they began to experience a lot of conflict trying to move things forward. Determined to successfully collaborate, they work to finally realize they had very different viewpoints and prospective on how to solve their problems. And they also came to realize they both had issues with judgement errors. Now they help others to avoid their own decision-making disasters.
Gleb was born in Chisinau, Moldova, a small country in Eastern Europe, in 1981. It’s famous for being one of the least happy countries in the world. Fortunately for him, when he was 10, his parents took him and his little brother, who was born in 1986, to New York City. That’s where he was raised.
As a kid, his dad told him with utmost conviction and absolutely no reservation to “go with your gut.” He ended up making some really bad decisions. For instance, wasting several years pursuing a medical career. Gleb also watched his dad make some terrible choices that gravely harmed his family as his dad followed his gut, such as hiding some of his salary from his mom for several years. After she discovered this and several other financial secrets he kept, her trust in him was broken, which was one of the major factors leading to their later prolonged separation. Fortunately, they eventually reconciled, but the lack of trust was never fully repaired.
From that experience, Gleb started learning about the dangers of people following their gut reactions. His conviction that the omnipresent advice to “follow your gut” was hollow grew only stronger as he came of age during the dotcom boom and the fraudulent accounting scandals of top executives of Enron, Tyco, and WorldCom leading to ruined reputations and long jail sentences. The best explanation for their seemingly irrational behavior comes from their willingness to follow their guts.
As someone with an ethical code of utilitarianism – desiring the most good for the most number – Gleb felt a calling to reduce suffering and improve well-being through addressing these problems. Therefore, he devoted himself to the mission of protecting people from dangerous judgment errors known as cognitive biases, which devastate bottom lines and bring down high-flying careers. He focused on developing the most effective and profitable decision-making strategies, based on pragmatic business experience and cutting-edge behavioral economics and cognitive neuroscience, to empower leaders to avoid business disasters and maximize their bottom lines.
Studying the topic formally, doing research in cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics with over 15 years in academia, including 7 as a professor in Ohio State University’s Decision Sciences Collaborative, he shifted away from academia to devote his full-time efforts to business as the CEO of the boutique consulting, coaching, and training firm Disaster Avoidance Experts.
Dr. Tsipursky’s cutting-edge thought leadership has been featured in popular venues that include Fast Company, CBS News, Time, Scientific American, Psychology Today, The Conversation, Business Insider, Government Executive, The Chronicle of Philanthropy, and Inc. Magazine.
Gleb has conveyed all his experience to date in his book, Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters. The legacy he hopes to leave is to empower leaders to notice and address the kind of dangerous judgment errors that decimate so many careers and businesses.
He lives in and travels from Columbus, OH. In his free time, he enjoys tennis, hiking, and playing with his two cats, and most importantly, he makes sure to spend abundant quality time with his wife to avoid disasters in his personal life.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
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Fast Leader Show Podcast 47:02
255: John DiJulius: Relationship is the differentiator today https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/ Wed, 11 Dec 2019 13:29:47 +0000 https://www.fastleader.net/?p=16119 https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/feed/ 0 <p>John DiJulius Show Notes Page John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place. John was born and raised on the East [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/johndijulius/">255: John DiJulius: Relationship is the differentiator today</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> John DiJulius Show Notes Page

John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.

John was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, OH. He is the youngest of 6 kids. His father left his mother when he was only 6 years old. They never saw him again. They were a middle-class family that went to being on welfare overnight.

In school, John was labeled as ADD and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades 1-8, although he never did. He graduated High School dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called; teachers, principals, or the Police).

Eventually, John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after 7 long years. Then he drove a truck for UPS, made decent money, met his wife and they opened a small hair salon in 1993, 4 chairs 900 square feet.

Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept the salon grew extremely rapidly, expanding and opening multiple locations throughout northeast Ohio (suburbs of Cleveland). As a result of the growth and world-class customer service reputation, organizations started asking John to speak.

His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book Secret Service in 2003, which completely took him out of the salon business and full-time with The DiJulius Group. Today he still owns the salons but is not in the day-to-day operations. He also owns Believe in Dreams, a non-profit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children

John R DiJulius, III is the authority on World-Class customer experience. He is an international consultant, keynote speaker, and best-selling author of five customer service books. His newest book, The Relationship Economy – Building Stronger Customer Connections in The Digital Age (Greenleaf Books October 2019) could not be timelier in the world we are living in. John has worked with companies such as The Ritz-Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestlé, Marriott Hotels, PwC, Celebrity Cruises, Anytime Fitness, Progressive Insurance, Harley-Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more.

John currently resides in Aurora, OH. He is a widower with 3 amazing boys. Johnni (27), Cal (22) and Bo (17).

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @JohnDiJulius to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“Today’s illiterate are those who have an inability to make a meaningful connection with others.” – Click to Tweet

“We’re all living in the touch screen age, and it has reduced all of our people skills.” – Click to Tweet

“Technology has brought us incredible advances at a significant cost; human relationships.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s ironic that good old-fashioned relationship is the differentiator today.” – Click to Tweet

“Technology is not the devil. Using it to eliminate the human experience is.” – Click to Tweet

“Customer-facing employees didn’t grow up staying in 5-star resorts yet they’re expected to give that type of service.” – Click to Tweet

“We always have to make sure we are looking at it from the customer’s vantage point.” – Click to Tweet

“So many employees are conditioned that they have to stick to policy.” – Click to Tweet

“Don’t punish 98% of your customers for the 2% that are trying to take advantage of you.” – Click to Tweet

“You tell one hundred people to go above and beyond, and that’s processed one hundred different ways.” – Click to Tweet

“We are all genetically coded to be preoccupied about ourselves.” – Click to Tweet

“Everyone’s your customer, not just the person on the other end of the phone.” – Click to Tweet

“One of the benefits of social media is you can’t hide if you suck.” – Click to Tweet

“Act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others.” – Click to Tweet

“How many people have had a better day as a result of coming into contact with you?” – Click to Tweet

“Live an extraordinary life, so countless others do.” – Click to Tweet

“The seeds of potential we don’t fulfill; we just cheated so many people.” – Click to Tweet

“We’re the Walt Disney of our household or our business.” – Click to Tweet

“You’re not able to get to your fullest potential if I’m cheating you.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.

Advice for others

Give the gift of attention to others.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Myself. Believing in the people around me and helping them to elevate their games.

Best Leadership Advice

Believe in others.

Secret to Success

Bringing the energy.

Best tools in business or life

The ability to delegate and my to do list.

Recommended Reading

The Relationship Economy: Building Stronger Customer Connections in the Digital Age

From the Ground Up: A Journey to Reimagine the Promise of America

Worth Doing Wrong: The Quest to Build a Culture That Rocks

Contacting John DiJulius

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dijulius/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JohnDiJulius

Website: https://thedijuliusgroup.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

How to Skip the Small Talk and Connect with Anyone

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

255 John DiJulius

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast Lear Legion. I’m excited because I have Sony on the show today who has so much depth and understanding into the customer experience that I think the challenge for me is

 

Jim Rembach: (00:09)

keeping it all sorted out so that you can actually have a great experience as well. John did. Julius was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, Ohio. He’s the youngest of six kids. His father left his mother when he was only six years old. They never saw them again. They were a middle class family that went to being on welfare overnight in school. John was labeled as add and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades one through eight although he never did. He graduated high school dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his of his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called teachers, principals, or the police. Eventually John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after seven long years. Then he drove a truck for ups, made decent money, met his wife, and they opened a small hair salon in 1993 four chairs and 900 square feet.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:12)

Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept, the salon grew extremely rapidly expanding and opening multiple locations throughout Northeast Ohio suburbs of Cleveland. As a result of the growth and world class customer service reputation organizations started asking John to come speak. His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book secret service in 2003 which completely took him out of the salon business and full time with the de Julius group. Today, he owns the salon, but it’s not. He’s not part of the day to day operations. He also owns believe in dreams, a nonprofit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children. John R did Julius. The third is the authority on world-class customer experience. He’s an international consultant, keynote speaker, and bestselling author of five customer service books. His newest book, the relationship economy, building stronger customer connections in the digital age. Could not be more timelier for the then no. For the world that we’re living in today. John has worked with companies such as the Ritz Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestle, Marriott hotels, PWC, celebrity cruises, anytime, fitness, progressive insurance, Harley Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more. John currently resides in Aurora, Ohio. He is a widower with three amazing boys. Johnny cowl and Bo, John Julius. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

John DiJulius: (02:40)

I am. Let’s do this.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:41)

John, I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

John DiJulius: (02:50)

Uh, you know, it’s raising my three boys. Uh, you know, making them sure they become a good, good a man and, and good human and a customer service. I love customer service, customer experience. Uh, I’m annoying to people. That’s all I want to talk about. That’s all I want to think about. That’s, that’s, you know, I just, I’m very narrow and deep.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:12)

Well, you know, narrow. Hmm, I guess you’d say your narrow perception, um, has become significantly wide. And what I mean by that is the customer experience is really a major focus for most organizations today. Even when we start talking about political relationships and races, it’s about constituent experience. So customer experience, I mean it’s all around us. I mean it is what you’re saying. It’s all about the relationships and what we’re doing today. But we have some issues, we have some issues in a lot of different ways, but one of the things you talk about immediately is the touch screen age and its impact. What do you mean by that?

 

John DiJulius: (03:54)

Well, you know, today’s illiterate or those who have, uh, inability to make a meaningful connection with others. And we’re all living in the touchscreen age and that’s not generational specific, right? We have grandparents on, uh, on Facebook and social media and we have five-year-olds that we’re handing an iPad to and, and you know, that’s their babysitter today and it has reduced all of our people skills. Um, and you know, technology has brought us incredible advances and benefits and conveniences, but it’s coming a significant cost. And that cost is human relationships. It’s, it’s that, you know, uh, drive customer loyalty, employee satisfaction, and just human happiness.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:37)

Well, unless you’re saying that there are a lot of industry analysts, um, you know, prognosticators forecasters, a lot of people talking about, you know, the machine interaction, the business automation, artificial intelligence and how many of the simple and mundane things are going to be handled by automations. So talking about the touchscreen age, that’s just going to continue to grow. However, the differentiating factor is all that this relationship compete, this piece. So what’s going to be left John?

 

John DiJulius: (05:09)

Well, it’s ironic that good old fashioned relationship is, is now the differentiator today. I mean, you know, it’s back to the 1960s and you know, that pendulum has swung so far over to high tech, low touch or no touch, um, that, um, we’re, we’re starving to be a name to someone, you know, uh, uh, someone, you know, with, with needs and pain points and desires and all those things. And, you know, technology is not the enemy. Um, it’s not the devil. Um, using it to eliminate the human experience is,

 

Jim Rembach: (05:44)

I think that’s a really interesting point that you bring up. So then you start talking about what part of the ability to create a relationship is left. And you talk about seven traits for us to really focus in on, in order us to have

 

John DiJulius: (05:58)

affective interactions with customers. So if you could, let’s walk through those a little bit so people get a better understanding of what we need to not just preserve but also enhance and really use it as a differentiating point. Yeah. And then the whole thing with, with, uh, you know, customer face and employees is they didn’t grow up. I’m staying at, you know, five star resorts, um, all of us, most of us. Um, we didn’t, you know, drive a Mercedes Benz when we turned 16. We didn’t fly first class yet. All of us, when we got our, our, our jobs, first jobs, any job we are expected to give that type of an experience to, to guests, customers, patients consists, ruins, you name it. And it’s unfair. So, you know, there, there, there has to be the part that, that the company understands what they have. They have to dictate what service aptitude, uh, is.

 

John DiJulius: (06:53)

And, and so those seven traits, compassion and empathy, um, not everyone’s going to come with these things, but most of them can be taught. So, you know, you gotta train for compassion and empathy and, you know, we’re apathetic today because, you know, we’re, we’re rushed. We only have three minutes to, you know, conduct this call. You know, the, the, the, the crazy metrics. Um, you know, and you know, we look at people as next and you know, w you know, hospitals look at people as you know, two Oh one bed B and, and you know, five-thirty haircut and all these things. And we have to make sure that we always are looking at it from the customer’s vantage point, what’s going on, um, engagement and, and warmth. Um, those are things you can absolutely spot an interview with w w with questions. And it’s also stuff that, that, that can, um, be taught.

 

John DiJulius: (07:43)

And it’s so much of this is taught in, in a great, um, orientation, soft skill training, uh, a drive to serve ownership. And now the ownership one is hard because so many employees are, are conditioned that they, they have to stick to policy. Right. You know, I’m sorry. [inaudible] we had 30 days to bring this back in. Today’s the 31st day, or I’m sorry, I can’t deliver it. Uh, because you’re outside of our one mile radius. Yeah. I know. It’s only, you know, one point, you know, one miles, but you know, our policy says, and then, you know, they get in trouble if they go against policy and that’s hard. And you know, it’s hard for great companies when you hire employees and you’re like, listen, you know, Jim, no, no policy here. You do whatever you think is eh, but they’re still scared because they’ve had their hand slapped by someone in the past that they’re, they’re, they’re so scared.

 

John DiJulius: (08:36)

Um, charitable assumption. Um, what that means is don’t punish 98% of your customers for what, 2%. You’re afraid to, you know, they’re trying to get taken advantage of you, um, presence that you gotta be present. You gotta be present to win. That. I’m so engaged, I’m with my eyes that, you know, someone could blow a firecracker off and I probably wouldn’t notice because, you know, [inaudible] nothing’s more important than the person I’m taking care of. And you know, the desire to exceed expectations that a lot of that comes from the company to inspire, to celebrate. Let me tell you what Jim did for our client yesterday. He overheard her. He did this, he went out and brushed off the snow of her car and drove it around and walked her out with an umbrella, whatever that may look like. But when you’re constantly celebrating those stories, now I’m, I’m jealous. I’m envious. I have peer pressure to raise my game.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:28)

Well, as you’re talking through running through those, John, I started thinking about all these competing forces. Uh, and while we talk about the whole touchscreen society and all of those forces, um, I also start thinking about the, the competing forces that an organization, uh, just has to contend with when you start talking about the interactions, you know, speed, you know, customer’s expectation of speed, our ability to deliver, you know, on speed. Um, you know, and like you hit on one of the components is, you know, risk, whether it’s legal risk, whether it’s, you know, inconsistency, risk, you know, these are now exceptions, you know, to our system and there are therefore, you know, we now need more people and I don’t need, I don’t want more people because it’s over. I mean all of these competing forces, the KPIs and the metrics that we look at on a daily basis. You mentioned that as well on a, on a, on an annual basis, the ones we have to report to shareholders. If we’re publicly traded, I start thinking about all these competing forces and then we’re laying the burden on that customer relationship, in the interaction on those people who are, you know, innocently, unknowing and unskilled. I mean, to me that’s a recipe for disaster. How do we prevent those things from occurring? So that on the outcome, you know, we’re delivering those relationship building customer experiences.

 

John DiJulius: (10:47)

Well the best, uh, companies, uh, customer service are short term focused, right? And they understand that it has to be a long, long term play. And you know, from, from training employees on the soft skill, I love to ask companies this, I’ll say, you know, if you were to hire my son tomorrow to work on or any customer facing position, um, how much training will you give him, uh, before he can start interacting with your customer, your public? And you know, some people say two days, some people will say two weeks, some people will say two months. That’s not the answer I’m looking for. The answer I’m looking for now is okay, of those 48 hours, 400 hours, 4,000 hours, how much of it is operational technical processes and how much is his soft skill, uh, showing empathy and compassion, the traits we just listed, making a brilliant comeback when we dropped the ball.

 

John DiJulius: (11:40)

Um, you know, those who are building a rapport and in most cases it’s 98% operational processes and way less than 2%. And at 2% sometimes is see that sign in the back. Um, you know, we’re customer first. Yeah, go do that. And you know, you know, you tell 20 people, you tell a hundred people to go above and beyond. That’s, that’s processed a hundred different ways. And so you got to make it black and white, right? And so, you know, if I tell you or anyone they go deliver genuine hospitality, I go and do that ready to go and we all break. Can we all go start content? You know, customer support, customer calls, um, you know, what does genuine hospitality really mean? So, you know, we like to make it specific, right? It’s the fi, it’s the five E’s, it’s, it’s, uh, and it take less than five seconds and, and the first three, take one second.

 

John DiJulius: (12:34)

You know, it’s enthusiastic. Greet ear to your smile, eye contact, engage them and educate them. Now I can watch you, I can listen to you read an email and say, you know, Jim, you didn’t deliver genuine hospitality. You know, your tone was like they were in an eruption in your day. You weren’t smiling. I couldn’t hear a smile in your voice. You weren’t enthusiastic, you didn’t educate them. I, they did not hang up thinking, man, Jim’s the smartest person I’ve ever met at his job. So, you know, that’s black and white. Well, and in order to be able to deepen that and enrich in that relationship, you even have another, you know, talk about the five E’s, but you also have Ford. Um, and so explain what Ford is. Yeah, I really like $4 clients have really implemented it. Um, I love to ask people, audiences, uh, companies, uh, staff, you know, who here is good at building an instant rapport with a stranger and acquaintance and everyone raises their hand.

 

John DiJulius: (13:32)

And I say, I don’t believe you. Uh, and I said, you know, you, you might, uh, you know, met someone yesterday at Starbucks or a business meeting at lunch, whatever it may be, and you might have spoke to him for 20 minutes, 30 minutes. But that doesn’t mean you built a rapport. You could have been speaking about yourself for that length of time. And we are all genetically coded to be preoccupied about ourselves. It’s not a slam, but it’s my flight that was delayed. It’s my client that’s threatening to, to, you know, get out of his contract. It’s my son that got in trouble at school today. Right? So in order to fight that, that urge, um, you know, I always say, if you want to prove to me, you know, that you built a relationship with someone would be a three minute conversation, 30 minute conversation.

 

John DiJulius: (14:16)

You have to be able to tell me two or more things of their Ford. And if you could tell me two or more things in there, Ford, you, you not only built a relationship, you own the relationship because to each and every one of us, our own Ford is our hot buttons. It’s what gets us talking fast. It’s what gets, you know, there’s some things you don’t want to ask me about my Ford unless you have two hours to, you know, listen, because I’m going to, I’m going to go on. And customer service is one of them. So for the F stands for family, right? Are they married? Do they have kids? How old are their kids? Oh, occupation. What’s he do? How long has he been doing it? What’s his title? Um, our recreation. Um, you know, what does she like to do with her or their free time or off time. She might be a yoga instructor. She, she might, you know, run marathons. Um, he might be a little league coach and then D D stands for dream. You know, what’s on their bucket list? What’s their dream vacation, what’s his Encore, you know, career that he’s shooting for.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:11)

Now, as you’re talking about that, John, I started thinking about how some people would take that purely mechanically and would say, Oh, this is my progression that I need to take. However, I would dare to say, you know, while Ford is a framework, you don’t necessarily do it in that order.

 

John DiJulius: (15:24)

No, God, no, no. I mean, you know, just like how our conversation started, you know, wherever you’re from and, and you know, and a lot of times people will offer Ford, you know, without you even asking. The problem is if you’re not paying attention to it, it’ll go right over your head. Right. And I’m guilty of this, so, so, so, uh, one of our must is in my company and a lot of our clients have adopted this is we cannot have a conference call with our clients or employees that are virtual that it has to be a zoom. It has to be a video call, right? For exactly list. I see Jimmy is a nice guy and I’m also, you are exposing so much forward to me as I am even, you know, on our walls. And you pick up on that and I’ll be honest, I’ve been guilty.

 

John DiJulius: (16:11)

Here’s the real reason why I do it is if I’m not on video, I’m not on stage. And what happens is my phone starts blowing up as we’re talking and I look and my son’s asking me if he can do something. I’ve already said no 16 times. So I’m responding and you just told me how you have to go back, you know, to, to uh, you know, your home, your home town because your grandmother passed away. And I’m like, Oh, that’s good, Jim. Chip, good, good, good. And you know, totally not listening, right? So, you know, these are techniques that make sure that we’re building that relationships. And man, this guy is a really nice, and you’re laughing at what I’m saying. So that makes me feel good and vice versa.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:50)

Well, and for me it’s cause it’s like, Oh gosh. Yeah. I mean I think of those times where I’ve actually done those things and you know, it’s like, okay, I’m sorry, can you say that again? Right. And you, I this, what you just said is exactly one of the things that I’ve instituted and I’ve pretty much every single meeting I have, I’m putting in a zoom link and I want to see people’s face. I want to make that connection. I want to be able to build that rapport. I want to, I mean, because even if it’s just a five minute, you know, you know, connection with the face and all of that, it’s significantly, you know, it’s a value point and it’s a value.

 

John DiJulius: (17:24)

You got this great smile, Jim, you really do from, from the moment we got on. But if I’m not seeing it and you might not be doing it if it’s over the phone and you know, that smile really resonates and makes me think, man, this guy is really, this is someone who I want to do business with.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:40)

Well, and I think when we incorporate all of these different things that are associated with, you know, making this, you know, relationship type of connection, these building blocks, uh, and we start doing, um, in a lot of different parts of the organization, that’s our striving the culture. And so you talk about a culture that rocks and you refer to, uh, a RNA wall, a mall, hymns book about a culture that rocks. But there was some particular elements in that that stood out for you. Can you please share those?

 

John DiJulius: (18:07)

Yeah. Irony. Maul ham is a, he’s built and sold several companies and now he’s a, a bestselling author and he, uh, his book is called the worth doing wrong. And, uh, it, the quest to build a culture that rocks. And, um, he hired us in when we’d come in. I w he hired us. His stuff on his employee experience is just amazing. So, you know, there’s a lot of things, you know, that he’s created. Um, you know, you know, in, in, in, they does it such low hanging fruit. It doesn’t cost a whole lot, but you know, he’s done things like, you know, unrestricted paid time off, um, surprise beer carts, uh, that just shows up at work. He has a better book club where he actually pays his employees to read, um, you know, free postage, uh, that he, he has a dream manager, a program that helps employees accomplish their personal dreams.

 

John DiJulius: (19:05)

And sometimes, you know, they are, that they don’t want to be here in a year from now. That’s okay. You know, uh, you know, that, you know, we know that we can’t be for everyone forever. And to some people that’s going to be a, a, a, we’re going to be a temporary transitional job, but I want that two years that you give us the best two years, um, confidential cash advances. And, and you know, irony is just, uh, he’s just brilliant the way he builds a cut culture on purpose. And, um, his employees will go through a fires for him because he does for them.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:40)

Well, and when you started talking about all of that, man, you talked to him about that, that foundational component, um, you also added something towards the back of the book, talking about how your customer experience is always on stage. Uh, and there’s five things that you talk about and associated that. So how is our CX always on stage?

 

John DiJulius: (20:01)

Well, you know, that’s the, the one thing that, that a lot of people don’t, um, you know, remember is the a M when they’re on stage. So, like, you know, in my first business, the salon business, you know, people, uh, forget that just because you know, you’re, you’re not working and you’re not in front of someone. So, so an example is let’s say a hairdresser, and this can happen in the doctor’s office. This can happen in a, you know, uh, a context center. But, uh, you know, a hairdresser walks up to the front desk and, uh, you know, you’re, you’re my friend working at the front desk and I’m waiting, you know, for you to get off or I’m waiting for you to stop serving this, this guest. So you can tell me, um, you know, we’re, we’re going to go out tonight, we’re going to go out for beers, whatever it is.

 

John DiJulius: (20:49)

Well, so I’m sitting there on my phone texting because, you know, I don’t want to interrupt, I’m going to be polite. You have some guests that you got to take care of. Well me, ma, there’s four or five guests in a line waiting to be checked in, checked out. And what they see is two employees, one taken care of, you know, the, the customer. And the other one texting, there’s not a sign above my head that says, Oh, I don’t work up here. You know, I’m off. So you know, we’re on stage there. Or you can come in on your off day and do your mom’s hair and you’re dressed like it’s an off day. Right. Um, and you know, again, the customers think, man, did they have some unprofessionally looking, you know, employees working here cause you’ve got a wife beater shirt on or a tube top or whatever it may be. Um, so, so, you know, always remember that you’re still on stage leaving at a D at the door, right? Uh, one of my best experiences I studied at, at um, uh, the, um, the Disney Institute and I got to go, this is back in the 90s, and I got to go underground and, and magic King has a whole underground and, and I hope you don’t have any listeners like under eight. Do you? I don’t want to ruin it for them.

 

John DiJulius: (22:01)

Parents cover your, your, your children’s ears. So, so, uh, I’m sure in magic kingdom ground where Casper is punching punch up and take breaks and, uh, uh, I see snow white on break smoking a cigarette, complainant about some guy and I’m like, Oh my God. You know, and then she goes back in and she freshers herself up, she punches back in, she goes up these stairs through these bushes and she reappears on magic kinda ground and 15 little five, six and seven year olds come charging at her. And she turns back in this beautiful angelic princess signing their pad, you know, posing for pictures and with Disney did was they taught her right? That, that, um, you know, people, you know, spend a lot of money, travel a long way, um, maybe, you know, save up for three years and that she’s, she’s snow white and she can’t pick and choose when she could be snow white.

 

John DiJulius: (22:50)

And so it’s every business, right? You’ve gotta leave it at the door or leave yourself at the door, um, must be present to win. Um, meaning, you know, you’re so focused on the person that, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re engaging with. And not looking over your shoulder. I’m not texting, I’m not having a conversation with my coworker. Um, you know, we, we have a video for call centers that, you know, someone’s, you know, taking a call and, you know, the, the person next to him says, I’m going to Starbucks. Um, what do you want? Oh, and you know, she’s, you know, back to, I’m not really listening. You know, everyone’s your customer, everyone’s your customer, not just the person on the other end of the phone or, or on the other end of the counter. Um, your coworkers, right? You’ve got to treat them with the same utmost respect that the ups man that’s coming in.

 

John DiJulius: (23:36)

Th this stranger in the elevator. And then, and then lastly, everyone’s in the media and, you know, listen, you know, for w w w everyone has a, a, a, a, uh, a camera, a video camera. Um, and just everything goes viral today. And, you know, I love that about social media. One of the benefits of social media is it has shine a spotlight, um, on it. You can’t hide if you suck. Um, and you know, years ago, if it would’ve happened 25 years ago, the United incidents where they drag the doctor off the airplane, that would is a, he said she said thing, but because you know, there’s proof United had to own up to it. And those things are great because that, that, you know, makes us train our employees better. Hopefully be choosy of our employees and be conscious that, you know, yeah. Well I’d love to, you know, really tell this guy what a, a diva he’s, he’s being, um, you know, I, I don’t want that on, on the six o’clock news.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:35)

Well and as you were talking, I mean to John, I started you talking about the whole development thing and you know, being able to help people to be more successful. Cause a lot of times what organizations will do from a customer experience contact center perspective is that they’ll have quality control standards and all of that in place. And they’re dinging people for their lack of performance, but they’re not developing them. So, I mean that, I mean, you talking about burnout, I’ll burn out fast if you just keep beating me and not developing me. Uh, but when we’d start talking about it at the front line level and you had talked about how, how much of that development are you going to give those frontline people, right? Saying to me, maybe it’s 2%. Well, we do the same thing for those frontline leaders and we, Hey, you know what?

 

Jim Rembach: (25:14)

You’re good at being this person. So now I want you to supervise. And people doing that same thing, right? So it, it, you know, it continues to actually build upon itself. Um, but I, I think for me, when we start talking about this relationship component and the differentiating factor, and I think Jack mob, you know, the founder of Alibaba, you know, I’ve mentioned it several times where he’s come out and said, stop teaching your kids about things that they could just look up on Google. You need to teach them how to be better people. You need to teach them about art, you know, and, and, and music and all of those things that are helping them to be better people. That’s going to be the differentiating factor of the future because all the other stuff’s gonna be automated out. It’s going to be easily accessed, it’s going to be business ruled, it’s going to be, you know, very simple. Um, and it’s the human commotion and connection that’s different. So your book, you know, really is the foundational component for all of us to be able to build that. But when we start talking about making connection, and I love this part that you mentioned, the book, um, and for me, I think it’s critically important when we start talking about conducting ourselves. You talk about screw in the small talk, you know, let’s get to the big talk. Well, what do you mean by big talk?

 

John DiJulius: (26:24)

I love that. And I was inspired by a Ted talk. Um, her name is Kaleena got, and I think if you just Google, um, screw the small talk, uh, go for the big talk. That was her theme. And she was a college student that was just struggling and lonely and just not making connections and having all these surface and, you know, then she went on vacation or, or I’m sorry, you know, went on a college trip to, you know, I think, you know, uh, you know, maybe a mission or something. And just when people are away on vacation, they’re there. There’s, they, they let their guard down, they make, you know, and we make these packs that we’re going to, you know, visit and write and do all these things, but, you know, and she’s like, well, why can’t this, the, these, uh, you know, conversations, the depth of conversations that we seem to have on vacation, but total strangers be the same with, with my friends and, and people I meet.

 

John DiJulius: (27:15)

So she, uh, you know, that was her, her topic. Uh, screw the small talk. Quit asking about, um, you know, Hey, what’s going on, how’s your day, blah, blah, blah. And you know, when you have quality time, really go and ask questions. Hey, you know, you know, we’re out to dinner and we’re having beers or you know, the four of us a significant others are out and we do this. I have it in my phone, big talk questions and I love it. And it’s from her and it’s just from questions, you know, Jim, if you’re today was your last day, what would be your biggest regret? Or you know, who’s someone that, you know, uh, uh, a celebrity that you love to have lunch with, you know, and, and you know, things like that. What’s the one thing you hope you’re, you, you know, what you know, here’s a good one.

 

John DiJulius: (27:57)

That it was really surprising. What’s the first thing you think of that pops in your head when you get up in the morning? And a really good friend of ours said, Oh my God, I have to go to work. I hate my job. And I just felt like, you know, and maybe that’s a normal one, but I just was like, Oh God. Like I felt, so I wanted to help her get a new job because I like you, I’m sure I wake up and I can’t believe I get to do this and I know I might be in the minority, but what a horrible thought for you know, just to think that, you know, in, in, in 27 years or in 13 years, I could retire and hoping that you get old fast. Right? So, but, but you wouldn’t have those without, you know, having those stimulating questions that take it to a much deeper place. And it really exposes a lot about the person in a nonjudgmental way. But you know, where, where they’ve come up with that thought pattern, something from their childhood, whatever it may be.

 

Jim Rembach: (28:54)

And what we don’t realize is that helps us to make significantly deeper connections than we could otherwise. And incorporating those into our business are important. I mean, and so maybe our big questions that we’re asking people, you know, aren’t things that would be inappropriate to ask, but yet still allow us to make connection. Now. This is all inspiring and we need to do it in order to be able to refocus and make these changes and to make these connections. And you have a lot of quotes that you have in the book, but is there one or two that stand out for you that you’d like to share?

 

John DiJulius: (29:23)

Yeah, yeah. So, so, uh, I have a quote that pops up on my phone at 6:00 AM in the morning, um, every morning. And then when it pops up, uh, at 10:00 PM and then at 6:00 AM is act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others. Um, and that’s important to me and, and I try to do it, act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others. And then, you know, the one at the end of the day is, you know, how many people had a better day as a result of coming in contact with you. And I really try to think about that and kind of, you know, and, and some days I’m not happy with the answer, you know, as a bad mood. I, I rushed, I, I snapped at my kid, you know, cause we were on, you know, taking them to school and they said, Oh wait dad, I left my homework at, at home and you know, I do, you know how that’s gonna screw up. I gotta be at Erie, you know, you know, that’s the way I, I let him go off to school, you know. So it’s those two things at this. If today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others and how many people had a better day as a result of coming in contact with me.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:23)

I love that. Now, John, also for you and I, um, you know, we went through an activity of, of building your bio for the fast leader show because a lot of my guests, they don’t come with a bio that I asked for me. Cause of a lot of the things that you’re talking about in this book, how do people connect with John that they’ve never been able to connect with before? Um, they know who John is, not just what John has done. Um, and, and, and I, I get a lot of feedback for that. Sometimes I get feedback saying, well, I don’t like to do this, you know, and, and as you know, guests and I’m like, well, then you’re just not a fit for the show. No big deal. Um, because relationships are critically important. Um, and so one of the ways that we also learn is by people sharing their stories of what, when they got over the hump and that has two effects. Um, one is, you know, we get to learn about the person even more, and then also hopefully we can take those learnings for ourselves. Yeah. So is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

John DiJulius: (31:14)

Yeah, I hit it too many. And I think sometimes when we learn from our worst practices or other people’s worst practices, but, uh, you know, um, growing too fast, I think that’s a struggle. Um, you know, [inaudible] it’s intoxicating. Uh, but then you wake up and you realize that you’ve added some people that I don’t know why, uh, you know, I would never would have hired this person or kept this person or compromise, but you convince yourself, you know, not only do I need to keep Jim, I need, you know, 10 more. So, you know, but, you know, now we’re losing clients, losing employees because we kept a bad attitude or things like that. And, and, and, you know, maybe taking jobs or clients that weren’t in our wheel house. Um, so, you know, I, I look back on everything. I’ve made a mistake in that I regret or, you know, embarrassed to, eh, I actually found a pattern and in my whole life from little league to, you know, college to, you know, everything is, I’ve always been the underdog, right?

 

John DiJulius: (32:19)

I’ve always been too short to, to play, you know, at the level I wanted to. And, but yet I, I walked down, I made, you know, college baseball, right? Um, you know, you know, was not a smart person. It, you know, and, you know, academic, you know, ways. And I really grew up thinking that I had, you know, a mental issue cause that’s what the teachers are telling. So, you know, I’ve always had a chip on my shoulder, but it’s when I, I take that chip on my shoulder off and think I’ve made it right and think I deserve. And you know, and I, I think that, you know, the, the last standing ovation I had, you know, is, is, you know, I believe it or you know, something that, you know, and that’s where I, I find that I end up in a, in a, in a bad place where, you know, when I’m not the underdog, um, you know, I, I have to keep that chip on my shoulder because that’s always correlation to, you know, where I start believe in my bio. You know, I like the bio you had, cause the bio, you read the bio, you researched, um, talk more about my failures. Uh, but if I read that, you know, he’s a bestselling author and you know, this, that whatever, and I start to believe that I started having, you know, some, some cleaning up to do, I can understand what you say. Your humility is where your gold is, right? Yeah, exactly.

 

Jim Rembach: (33:35)

Well, John, I, you know, you’ve written several books. You have the digital ileus group, you’re doing a lot of things. Um, and I know you have several goals. You know, the boys you said you want them to be able to impact humanity, uh, even more so than you have already. Um, I think that’s all of our goals as parents who want to achieve, right? We want our kids to outdo us. Um, but when I start thinking about one of those goals,

 

John DiJulius: (33:58)

what would it be? You know, I have my favorite mantra and it’s up, uh, you know, in my mirror and my office is, you know, to live an extraordinary life so countless others do. And, and that, that really is important to me. And it’s just not a mantra I look at. I write a plan for it. And what I mean is, you know, I don’t want to live an extraordinary life, so I have more houses, more cars, more vacations, more money in the bank account. Um, if I live an extraordinary life, the chances that my kids, my clients, my employees will, and I feel that that’s not an opportunity. It’s, it’s our obligation to, so we all have seeds of potential and, um, the, the, the seeds of potential we don’t fulfill. We just cheated so many people. Right. Um, you know, think of if Martin Luther King, well, Disney, you know, the, you know, Nelson Mandela, you know, all that.

 

John DiJulius: (34:51)

But what if they just said ass, screw it. I’m going to be ordinary, right? How different our lives should be today. And you know, we’re the Walt Disney, uh, of our household or of our business or whatever. And you know, if I choose to, to eat donuts at lunch, um, go have beers with, uh, my buddies from college who are not, you know, the best influence on me. Um, and, and you’re a good friend, you’re a family member, you’re a a partner. And, and you know, you come to me and say, John, I don’t think you’re making the right choices. Some people would say, Hey, that’s none of your business. I call bull. You know, because if I make those bad choices, it does impact you. I’m not as good of a partner. I’m not as good of a parent. I’m not as good as a significant other.

 

John DiJulius: (35:38)

I’m not as good about a boss and I’m not going to be able to help you get to your fullest potential if I’m cheating you. And you know, and you know, it’s the old thing, you know, you, you, you, you eat like crap and you don’t exercise and you’d come home and you’d just collapse on the couch, have a beer and your watch ESPN and your kid wants you to play catch. I got on that right now, right? I mean, you know, what is that? So, so that is a burden that, that really guides me to make better decisions because it’s not for me. It’s not for my benefit. It’s for all the people, the ripple effect that are dependent on me to make good decisions.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:12)

And the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:19)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities. They want to improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com for slash

 

Jim Rembach: (36:38)

better.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:39)

All right, here we go. Fast to the Allegion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay John, the hump day hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust get rapid response to sort of help us with onward and upward faster. John did Julius, are you ready to hoedown?

 

John DiJulius: (37:00)

Hi.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:01)

Yep. Alright. So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

John DiJulius: (37:08)

I’m just, you know, I can’t make excuses and, and just have to believe in the people around me and help elevate their games.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:17)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

John DiJulius: (37:20)

Uh, I believe in others. Um, you know, believe in others and even when it’s not easy to believe in them, that’s the time to believe in them.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:28)

What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

John DiJulius: (37:33)

Uh, I, you know, I, uh, energy, I love words and, and, and energy. You bring it, you bring it and, and, and the room picks up. Um, I, I see you walking by on Jim Jibo, you know, how you do and, and you know, he has a, uh, uh, uh, a bounce in his step.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:50)

What is one of your tools that you help, believes, drives you and helps you in business or life?

 

John DiJulius: (37:57)

I, you know, I, I think, uh, just the ability to delegate and, and, and, and also my a to do list. I, I’m, I’m a freak about my to do list and limiting the things I have to, to get done today. Instead of having 20, I have three, I have to get those done and everything else is a bonus.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:15)

And what would be one book you’d recommend to our Legion and it can be from any genre. Of course we’re going to put a link to the relationship economy on your show notes page as well as well as your other books.

 

John DiJulius: (38:25)

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I just read, uh, from the ground up by Howard Schultz. Um, the uh, us Starbucks, a CEO and kind of founder of Starbucks. Um, and it’s really uh, inspiring the, the uh, the person he is, uh, uh, the social conscious he has for people and communities outside of being a very successful

 

Jim Rembach: (38:47)

business owner. Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/john D Julius. Okay. John, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and,

 

John DiJulius: (39:09)

well, um, I don’t know if I can, uh, the word be an empathy being present. Um, I, you know, I, I was, I just, I just think it was something that I, I had a, uh, a reputation for you got to say a quick five words or less and I’m embarrassed of that today and to give people my presence and my attention. I think the greatest gift we can give anyone is the gift of our attention and having that skill set, I learned it, but man, I, I’d be so much further, um, just in an emotional capital if I had to learn that a younger age.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:46)

John, I had fun with you. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you?

 

John DiJulius: (39:50)

Uh, the de Julius group.com, uh, the de Julius group.com. Uh, email me John at the D, Julie’s group.com.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:57)

John did Julius, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 255: John DiJulius: Relationship is the differentiator today appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

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John DiJulius Show Notes Page John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a b... John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.
John was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, OH. He is the youngest of 6 kids. His father left his mother when he was only 6 years old. They never saw him again. They were a middle-class family that went to being on welfare overnight.
In school, John was labeled as ADD and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades 1-8, although he never did. He graduated High School dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called; teachers, principals, or the Police).
Eventually, John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after 7 long years. Then he drove a truck for UPS, made decent money, met his wife and they opened a small hair salon in 1993, 4 chairs 900 square feet.
Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept the salon grew extremely rapidly, expanding and opening multiple locations throughout northeast Ohio (suburbs of Cleveland). As a result of the growth and world-class customer service reputation, organizations started asking John to speak.
His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book Secret Service in 2003, which completely took him out of the salon business and full-time with The DiJulius Group. Today he still owns the salons but is not in the day-to-day operations. He also owns Believe in Dreams, a non-profit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children
John R DiJulius, III is the authority on World-Class customer experience. He is an international consultant, keynote speaker, and best-selling author of five customer service books. His newest book, The Relationship Economy – Building Stronger Customer Connections in The Digital Age (Greenleaf Books October 2019) could not be timelier in the world we are living in. John has worked with companies such as The Ritz-Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestlé, Marriott Hotels, PwC, Celebrity Cruises, Anytime Fitness, Progressive Insurance, Harley-Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more.
John currently resides in Aurora, OH. He is a widower with 3 amazing boys. Johnni (27), Cal (22) and Bo (17).
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @JohnDiJulius to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“Today’s illiterate are those who have an inability to make a meaningful connection with others.” – Click to Tweet
“We’re all living in the touch screen age, and it has reduced all of our people skills.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15936 https://www.fastleader.net/darrengold/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/darrengold/feed/ 0 <p>Darren Gold Show Notes Page Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code. Darren was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/darrengold/">254: Darren Gold: Master your code</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Darren Gold Show Notes Page

Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code.

Darren was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, a suburb of Los Angeles, at the age of 8. His parents divorced shortly after moving to the US, and Darren grew up with his father in a one-bedroom apartment.

Darren was raised on the edge of poverty, surrounded by crime and addiction. Both his father and mother spent intermittent times in jail. Darren was determined at an early age to break out of this cycle, and was the first in his family to attend college. He went to UCLA where he supported himself and his father by working full time while attending school. Working as a copy boy in a law firm blocks from the UCLA campus convinced Darren to attend law school.

He graduated from The University of Michigan Law School and began his career as an attorney. He soon realized that he loved law school but didn’t feel the same way about the practice of law. He left legal practice after a year and a half and joined the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. He then went on to serve as a Partner at two San Francisco private equity firms where he sat on the boards of dozens of companies and was responsible for investing and managing hundreds of millions of dollars of capital. About a decade into this part of his career, Darren became the CEO of one of the companies for which he was serving as a board director.

After serving as CEO of two companies, Darren joined the Trium Group, an elite management consulting firm focused on the intersection of strategy execution and human performance. As a Managing Partner of Trium, Darren is an executive coach, advisor, and consultant to the CEOs and leadership teams of many of the world’s best-known organizations, including Roche, Dropbox, Lululemon, Sephora, Cisco, eBay, Activision, and Warner Bros.

His clients describe him as a visionary, transformational change agent. Darren is the author of Master Your Code: The Art, Wisdom, and Science of Leading an Extraordinary Life. A groundbreaking guide for rewriting your program and mastering every aspect of your life.

Darren currently lives in the Bay Area with his wife of 24 years and his youngest son. His two oldest children are currently in college studying business at SMU in Dallas, Texas and musical theater at Montclair State University in New Jersey.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @darrenjgold to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“Everybody has the opportunity to live an extraordinary life.” – Click to Tweet

“We have far more potential than we may otherwise believe.” – Click to Tweet

“The default way of being human is to hold a certain set of beliefs that were designed to keep us safe, not to thrive.” – Click to Tweet

“The human superpower is the ability to choose the meaning we give to our circumstances.” – Click to Tweet

“Life shows up as a set of choices that we make about the meaning that we give our circumstances.” – Click to Tweet

“There’s a part of language which is generative where we declare something into existence.” – Click to Tweet

“The more that we can declare the more we create a reality.” – Click to Tweet

“We create our reality often times through our language.” – Click to Tweet

“If you want to achieve extraordinary results in life part of it is declaring those results.” – Click to Tweet

“We construct a set of beliefs, values, and rules subconsciously that limits the results we get.” – Click to Tweet

“Most of our listening is about us.” – Click to Tweet

“We neglect the power of complete and true listening.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s an exquisite art and practice to really listen to somebody.” – Click to Tweet

“The fundamental default of human beings is to externalize.” – Click to Tweet

“Most of our issues in any part of our lives aren’t problems to be solved. What they are instead is natural and healthy tensions.” – Click to Tweet

“The very way we talk about change induces the very resistance to change they we’re trying to avoid.” – Click to Tweet

“If we want to achieve whatever it is that we want in life, we have to master ourselves.” – Click to Tweet

“Leaders underestimate is their ability through the use of language to create futures.” – Click to Tweet

“Great leaders are ones that have a vision and then generate possibility for people by declaring what that future is.” – Click to Tweet

“Reconstruct your identity, the actions you take will be a manifestation of the beliefs you hold about yourself.” – Click to Tweet

“Build a responsible mindset. You’re 100% responsible for your life.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code.

Advice for others

Build a responsible mindset. You’re 100% responsible for your life.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Challenge myself and not get complacent.

Best Leadership Advice

The power of creating a future for people to live into.

Secret to Success

Daily rituals.

Best tools in business or life

My identity.

Recommended Reading

Master Your Code: The Art, Wisdom, and Science of Leading an Extraordinary Life

A Failure of Nerve, Revised Edition: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix

Contacting Darren Gold

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrengold-unlockingpotential/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Darrenjgold

Website: https://www.darrenjgold.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

254: Darren Gold: Master your code

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m thrilled because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to help you decipher some of him. Very important components and element. It’s

 

Jim Rembach: (00:09)

about how you’re programmed and wired. Darren gold was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, a suburb of Los Angeles at the age of eight. His parents divorced shortly after moving to the U S and Darren grew up with his father in a one bedroom apartment. Darren was raised on the edge of poverty surrounded by crime and addiction. Both his father and mother spent intermittent times in jail. Darren was determined at an early age to break out of the cycle and was the first in his family to attend college. He went to UCLA where he supported himself and his father by working full time while attending school, working as a copyboy in a law firm, blocks from the UCLA campus, convinced Darren to attend law school. He graduated from the university of Michigan law school and began his career as an attorney. He soon realized that he loved law school, but didn’t feel the same way about the practice of law.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:05)

He left that legal practice after a year and a half and join the consulting firm, McKinsey and company. He then went on to serve as a partner at two San Francisco private equity firms where he sat on the boards of dozens of companies and was responsible for investing and managing hundreds of millions of dollars of capital. After a decade into this part of his career, Darren became the CEO of one of the companies for which he was serving as a board director. After serving as CEO of two companies, Jair Darren joined the trim group and elite management consulting firm focused on the intersection of strategy, execution, and human performance. As a managing partner of trim, Darren is an executive coach, advisor, and consultant to the CEOs and leadership teams of many of the world’s best known organizations, including Roche, Dropbox, Lulu, lemon, Sephora, Cisco, eBay, Activision, and Warner brothers. His clients described him as a visionary, transformational change agent.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:59)

Darren is the author of master your code, the art, wisdom and science of leading an extraordinary life, a groundbreaking guide for rewriting your program and mastering every aspect of your life. Darren currently lives in the Bay area with his wife of 24 years, and his youngest son, his two oldest children are currently in college studying business at SMU in Dallas, Texas and musical theater and Montclair st university in New Jersey. Darren gold. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? I’m ready. Excited to be here. Thanks for having me. And I’m excited that you’re here because getting the opportunity to go through your book, I mean, it was intriguing at first. Um, and then I just got pulled into it. Uh, and a lot of it because of what we talked about off mic, you know, some of these personal things that we’ll get into is so that others can benefit from. But I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? Yeah. Um, it’s great to be on. And, uh, my passion is, and part of the reason,

 

Darren Gold: (03:00)

main reason why I wrote the book is a fundamental belief that everybody has the opportunity to live an extraordinary life. And I work with people in the context of leadership, but we’re all leaders. We’re leaders of our businesses were leaders of our families, were leadership leaders of our relationships. Um, and the wisdom that I’ve been able to get over the years and I’m still getting, getting, uh, is a realization that we have far more potential than we may, uh, otherwise I believe. And so my mission is to bring that wisdom to bear in the form of the book that I’ve written and the work that I do with senior leaders to enable people to, um, really tap into their potential and, and lead an extraordinary life.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:42)

Well, and as you know, as you’re talking, you know, for me, you know, it often may give people the opportunity to think wrong-headed, um, in a lot of ways. And wrongheaded meaning that, well, this just is the way that I am, you know, and there’s not a darn thing I can do about it and I’m not going to change it. No one else is going to change it. And that’s part of what you talk about. Um, meaning that this is how average people think and this is how extraordinary people think. And, and I, I don’t, I want to say that that’s not necessarily a judgment thing, meaning that Hey, you’re average and it’s bad, but it’s an opportunity if you choose to see it that way.

 

Darren Gold: (04:18)

Yeah, I would almost say it, and I do say it as average and extraordinary to be a little provocative, but it’s the default way of being human. The default way of being human, which is a function of our culture. And the way, uh, we’re raised in our environment is to hold a certain set of beliefs. And those beliefs are ones that were constructed usually very early on in childhood. And they’re designed to keep us safe, not necessarily to thrive. And so when I use the word average human being, I’m referring to all of us, right? We are born into a culture that has us believing, uh, a certain set of beliefs, a program that’s running us. And it’s really the realization of that that creates the opportunity to have real breakthrough and extraordinary performance in your life.

 

Jim Rembach: (05:06)

And so why, I mean this is important in a lot of ways when you target a life. But if we start talking about in the context of many of the listeners of the fast leader show is that we’re all dealing with change. We’re all needing to transform. We’re all needing to be, you know, proactive in the ongoing innovative aspects of our businesses. Boom, a as well as our lives. Cause we know those lines are getting blended together. Uh, and so when you start talking about the average and we’re gonna share, what that means in a minute is that they’re preventing you from all of that transformation. They’re preventing your organization from being more customer centric. They’re preventing your organization from being more collaborative and creative in their thinking. It’s all of these things that undermine what we’re wanting to do.

 

Darren Gold: (05:51)

Yeah, that’s right. You know, I like to say that the, the, the, the, the human superpower is the ability to choose the meaning that we give to our circumstances. So as you said, we’re all living in a world with massive complexity and massive change. And uh, the superpower that we all possess is the ability to give meaning to those circumstances. And you can have two, uh, people that confront the same set of circumstances that will give entirely different meaning to the circumstances and as a result, take an entirely different set of actions and get an entirely different set of results. I say in my book, this story that you remember may remember reading Jim, which is a two shoe salesman, you know, dispatched in 1900 from London, uh, to uh, to an emerging country to see if there’s a market for shoes. And they take the boat there.

 

Darren Gold: (06:39)

It’s a four day long journey and they get to, they get to their destination, they get off the ship and all they can see as far as the eye can, can see is thousands of villagers, all of whom are not wearing shoes. They rushed back to the Telegraph office. The first shoe salesman says, total disaster, no one here wear shoes. I’ll be on the next boat home. The other says, glorious opportunity. No one here wear shoes yet. Please send more inventory fast. And so life shows up as a set of choices that we make about the meaning that we give to our circumstances. And we’re either giving them one meaning, right? Which is something that’s limiting our effectiveness, limiting the actions we can take, limiting the results we can yet, or we’re giving it the totally different meaning. The key is we have a choice and we totally construct it. And so if you think about life that way, you start to begin to imagine how much power and how much potential you have as a human being, as a leader, right? To see your circumstances in a whole variety of different ways. Some of which can be empowering, some of which art.

 

Jim Rembach: (07:42)

Well, and also as you’re saying that I start thinking about someone who could be, you know, responsible for those two shoe salesman and knowing how they actually think, you know, and how they’re coded to be able to coach and guide them, you know, appropriately. So the guy that comes back and says, Hey, don’t do anything. It’s okay. Well let’s look at this a little bit differently. Right? Yeah, that’s exactly right. Okay. So I think that’s also a perfectly good setup. Um, when you give instructions in the book are for us to share the, how you do that. Um, and you say how to read this book and then mastering your code and it’s how it’s divided into 10 chapters. And so I’m going to run through these real quick cause I think it’s critically important so that people can see this transition in the difference between, um, and you also talk about polarity and we’ll, we’ll share that in a second, um, in a moment as well.

 

Jim Rembach: (08:27)

But you say the average person who’s run by program, by a program believes certain things. And then extraordinary person who, who masters his or her code declares these things. All right? So this is how the chapters go. It’s, I am who I am, or I am the author of my life. I am hardwired to react or I act. I don’t react. I avoid risk and do whatever it takes to stay. Or I played a win. I avoid responsibility whenever I can, or I’m 100% responsible for my life. I hold onto grudges or I forgive unconditionally. I need to be right, or I seek to understand. I don’t challenge the status quo or I own my identity. I have limited potential or I never stop learning and growing. I don’t keep my commitments or I am my word. I don’t control my destiny or I live on purpose. Now you told me you told call these declarations. What do you mean by that?

 

Darren Gold: (09:39)

Um, declarations are, um, really what I’m alluding to is the power of language. So oftentimes people think languages are medium for describing things, right? Which it is, and it does it, it serves a very important purpose. But there’s a part of language what is, which is generative, right? Where we declare something into existence. And so I use the word declarations intentionally. And the story I love to tell, which is a somewhat overused story, but I’ll tell it anyway and I think is one of the most important responsibilities of leaders is using language, particularly the declarative aspect of language very intentionally. And that that story is JFK. You know, when he declared we’re going to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade, he didn’t describe something, he declared something, he put something into existence. He declared a new future for people to live into such that the actions of an entire nation shifted.

 

Darren Gold: (10:32)

So declaration to me has a, there’s an important connotation to it. And the more that we can declare, the more we create a reality. And I, you know, like to say like, you know, we create our reality oftentimes through our language, whether it’s something spoken out loud or something that you’re saying to yourself in your head, right? So if you want to achieve extraordinary results in life, part of it is declaring those results with real congruence in the way you hold your body, uh, what you’re thinking. Um, and with massive certainty. And so that’s, that’s the, the reason why I use the word declaration.

 

Jim Rembach: (11:08)

And so if I am a particular type of person as we’re going through that, you know, differences in between the, the average and the extraordinary and I find myself declaring things from an average side, what do I need to do?

 

Darren Gold: (11:24)

Well, I think the first step is, um, is awareness and it’s really the, the first chapter is on awareness, right? I think this fundamental notion that, um, we construct a set of beliefs, values of rules subconsciously that are safety based, uh, what I call a program. And that that program automatically drives our behaviors and limits the results we get. Right? The awareness that, that, that, that is where oftentimes we’re operating from. And we never really knew. It is a profound realization, right? So the first step is just understanding, look, a lot of my life, I say in the book, I was a 40 year old man. I woke up one day realizing that I was being run by a program written by a seven year old boy. And that to me was a profound realization. Now I’d had cheated a lot of success and happiness and joy in my life, but I didn’t realize how much I was being run by a set of subconscious beliefs. And so step number one is just that realization. And then step number two is to say, okay, if I constructed these beliefs, this program, I can reconstruct it. Anything that’s constructed can be reconstructed. And the opportunity is I have an opportunity to be not run by a program, but to author, powerfully, author and intentionally author a code. Um, and the assertion I make in the book is that there really these 10 lines of code that matter most. And that’s the basis for each of the chapters.

 

Jim Rembach: (12:50)

Well, and also when you start talking about code coding, coding of man, coding of humanity, really this has been happening for thousands and thousands of years. I mean, this isn’t new. I mean for you, you’ve modernized it. And with the ability to, for us to connect with what may be going on inside of our heads from our thinking perspective. And one of the things I tell my kids all the time is that, you know, you can think whatever you want in your head. I said, but when it comes out of your mouth, you know, talking about that declaration, you may galvanize it. And so you have to be really aware, you know, of what you’re allowing to come through. But if we start talking about this overall coding component and coding element, and in in chapter six you had talk about and explain the Chinese symbol for listening. Uh, and, and I’ve never seen that happen, but for me it’s when you, it’s sorry, I started seeing the connection and the closing of the loop of this whole coding thing. It’s been going on forever. Just whether or not we’re being listening, somebody’s blind to Chinese symbol of listening.

 

Darren Gold: (13:50)

Yeah, sure. And you know, the one thing I’ll reference is the subtitle of my book, the art, wisdom and science of leading an extraordinary life. There is, um, you know, most of all, everything, it Canadian, my book has been around for thousands of years, right? Ancient wisdom. Uh, and oftentimes it’s Eastern wisdom, um, that is neglected by the West, um, in particularly in our businesses and our, and, and in leadership. And so part of the, part of the promise of the book is to integrate a lot of that is Eastern wisdom with our kind of Western scientific mind. Um, and one of the aspects in the book, this Chinese symbol of listening speaks to the power of listening. And I deconstruct, uh, in, in that chapter, in chapter six in the chapter, I seek to understand, um, how do we actually listen? Are we good listeners? And the reality is that most of our listening is about us, right?

 

Darren Gold: (14:44)

Uh, listening to make sure I’m right listening to make sure that I get my point across right. And we neglect, uh, the power of complete and true listening, which is to really let in with all of our faculties. Um, what the person speaking to us is sharing. And the Chinese recognize that, you know, thousands of years ago, imbedded in the symbol to listen is not just the ears, it’s the eyes, right? It’s the heart, right? And so in, in the very symbol for listen and in Chinese is this idea of totality, of listening, like really letting it in without regard to personal agenda with a complete surrender to the ego into the self. And, um, I invite the, the readers of the book to experiment with that. Um, and if you’ve ever been listened to in that way can be a transformative experience for you. And as we’re leading others, um, the opportunity is to, is to listen differently. And that’s, there’s a very powerful shift for people.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:45)

Well, for me, I mean, just looking at the symbol in the way that you’ve broken it down. I mean, I, I am, I think like most of us, uh, we try to seek connection through visualizations. I mean, you know, people say I’m a visual learner or the fact is we all are. If we can see, and even if you can’t and if you, I mean you still are, there’s something like that is happening still currently and in the brain to connect with other senses. So you have the ear, you eyes undivided attention and heart and those are all the components in this Chinese symbol for listen. Uh, and, and I think for all of us when we even start talking about the reactionary nature of our mind, um, you know, we can, our subconscious mind has already answered before it comes out period. Sometimes we’ve already formulated the response, you know, prior to the, the conclusion of the question maybe even before the question is asked.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:33)

Yeah. Uh, and I think if we stop and really pay attention and think about all those particular elements, I think our listening is going to have a significantly different outcome than it ever has before. And here’s the thing about it. I don’t think this is just the one on one thing. I think this is also an organization that wants to be more customer focused, uh, that wants to do a better job of understanding, you know, where to develop their next products, um, and where the marketplace is going. I think there’s so many different components into this that I think we can all break down and leverage from.

 

Darren Gold: (17:06)

Yeah, I totally agree. And you know, I was very conscious of my listening, right? Even as you were talking to me there. Um, it’s an, it’s, it’s an exquisite art and practice to really listen to somebody to really understand what are they trying to communicate to me without regard to my personal agenda and what I heard in your sharing was that, um, being able to do that one on one is one thing. Being able to do that outside, you know, with our customers, with our communities, um, as a whole has a whole other game. So there’s a huge amount of unlock that occurs when we change our relationship to listening and we become more conscious, right? We’re not driven right by, um, a way listening, but we cultivate and construct a different way of listening.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:53)

Well, and even as you were saying that, I started thinking about what we were talking about off Mike. When I start looking at, you know, your background and what you currently do right now and who you’re working with. I’m like, why this book? And I’m like, Oh,

 

Speaker 4: (18:06)

[inaudible]

 

Jim Rembach: (18:07)

to me, you probably are spending a significant portion of your activities and effort on these elements. Not, Hey, let’s make sure your strategy is right because these are the underlying and foundational components of whether or not it is

 

Darren Gold: (18:22)

that that’s absolutely true, right? This, this proceeds. And now we, I work with leaders, um, on strategy and culture of course, but, um, the most important part of a senior leader and senior leadership team is, are they going to be the leaders that are capable of executing that strategy effectively, right? And, uh, influencing an organization, um, inspiring a community of users. And it has to start with self-mastery, right? So the fundamental default of human beings is to externalize, right? Is to blame, is to want others to do things. And you know, Gandhi said, and he didn’t say it quite this way, but the shortened version is be the change you want to see in the world. And so the fundamental premise when I’m working with leaders is if you want to master others, if you want to influence others, if you want to get results from others, you have to start with yourself. And so the exploration starts inward. And at that point you’re now a completely different, um, leader in terms of how you think about your strategy and your ability to execute it.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:29)

Well. And another thing for me as I see, cause I, uh, have a, a um, a leadership Academy for frontline leaders and contact center operations, you know, and is that what you’re talking about right there? And that skill development is something that is needed also at the front line because it’s gotten to be a situation to where more responsibility and the importance of the decisions that are made as well as the, you know, the whole culture, uh, execution component. If that head is not connected with those people down at the front line, uh, you’re going to have a bunch of turmoil and your company’s overall at risk. So we talk about alignment, um, and knowledge who are listening to the show. You’ve heard me say we the head and the feet have to move together and I mean senior level leaders and the frontline leaders. And when that fall, when that filtering happens, if we’re only doing that investment and only doing that activity at the very top level, you can’t expect the organization to move. It ain’t gonna happen.

 

Darren Gold: (20:27)

No, that’s right. And I would say the starting point has to start with the top right. If you’ve got a leadership team and then an extended leadership team that’s embodying consistently and congruent Lee, a set of values, a set of beliefs, a set of behaviors that it wants to see throughout the organization, you’re going to create a massive amount of momentum. The mistakes I often see in organizations is, um, senior leadership team set out strategies and they develop cultures and they want their organization to be customer focused. They want their organization to take responsibility and accountability. They want all these things for others and yet the very things they want and others, they’re not practicing, uh, themselves. They want people to make commitments and to honor those commitments. And yet there’s a breakdown, uh, within the leadership team. So it’s impossible to expect a, an organization, particularly at scale, um, to model behaviors and get, take actions and get results that you want.

 

Darren Gold: (21:25)

If the senior leaders that are stewards of that organization aren’t completely embodying them in every single thing they do. And that’s really the premise of this book because whether it’s your leader or your business or your leader, your family, you want your children. I talk about this in chapter four. You may remember we both have three children. I want my children to be polite. I don’t tell them to be polite, right? I show up to a restaurant and I am, I am polite to the server. I opened the door for somebody that’s going into the restaurant before my family. Uh, I say thank you. Uh, at the end of the meal, the whoever was gracious enough to serve our meal and I give up the hope of trying to tell my T my, my, my, my children, anything I role model the behaviors I’d like to see in them. And that’s what we do when we’re leading, leading anything.

 

Jim Rembach: (22:15)

It’s so true. Yeah. One of the things that you also revealed in that same chapter, chapter six, where you break down the Chinese symbol for listening, is you introduce a, your leveraging of a PLO, that polarity map. If you could kind of explain what that is and why you use it.

 

Darren Gold: (22:31)

Yeah. So, um, we’re trained from a very early age to see the w the world shows up as problems to be solved. And even as you know, we were, you know, in, in our very earliest educational years, right? It’s a, B, C or D or all of the above, right? We’re in an either or world and our, our mind is trained that way and there are a lot of things that lend themselves truly to be problems to be solved. You know, do I hire Canada day or do I hire candidate B? Do I let my son go, uh, to the dance or do I not? Whatever. The, so there are plenty of situations that require a yes or no an either or decision. The reality is most of our issues in any part of our lives aren’t problems to be solved. Although we apply problems to be solved thinking either or thinking to them what they are.

 

Darren Gold: (23:22)

Uh, instead is, is natural and healthy tensions. Uh, we’ll just go back to our parenting example. Um, you know, you might have one parent if your, your co-parenting that says I that’s really strict. Uh, and once a whole children to, you know, a certain set of, of, of rules and another that’s, you know, really flexible and wants to create space for the children. If you’re in an either or mindset, forget it. And so the assertion in the second half of that chapter is something we’ll call polarity thinking. And again, this is ancient wisdom. The yen and the young was the essential embodiment of paradox or polarity. And in business you’re going to confront natural and healthy tensions all the time. Am I direct right and risk the relationship or am I kind and dilute? You know, the, the communication is a false dichotomy. Jim Collins talks about this a lot.

 

Darren Gold: (24:14)

Best businesses are ones that begin to see problems to be solved as natural and healthy tensions to be leveraged. And what I do in my work with a lot of leaders is I begin to expose or at least have them see and expose what are the tensions that are present in your organization? One company I’m working with right now has a cultural, um, issue where they have a strong preference for being deliberate. They have, quality is such an important value of theirs, but they over-focus on that to the neglect of being decisive and taking action. And they’re in, they’re stuck in an either or mindset. Either we take action quick and we, you know, we quality suffers or we focus intently on quality and we have to move slow. And the basic premise of polarity thinking is don’t, you didn’t, don’t need to hold it that way. Hold it as a natural, healthy tension that can be leveraged. What if it were possible to get all the benefits of quality focused on quality and all the benefits of being decisive and moving fast and rather than choosing one or the other UV and to integrate the polarity. And so there’s this notion of mapping a polarity and there’s a tool that I use in the book that’s, that allows people to map individual polarities direct versus kind is a, is a very common one. Um, and organizational players.

 

Jim Rembach: (25:35)

Well, even as you were describing that particular situation, I started thinking about it from if we take coding, it’s like computer programming and, and I have a, uh, you know, the system has worked a certain way. If I have and understand all of those things, I can just rewrite the code just a little bit to make an adjustment. So oftentimes we talk about the process. I mean, if you have a particular situation that is occurring, uh, in a, in a fashion by which it’s not acceptable to you, most oftentimes it’s the system. It’s not the people involved in the system. So while the, the, the people may prevent, you know, the change from occurring. But we, we, you know, that’s where the really the issue is we need to do something different. We can’t keep doing what we’ve always been doing and then therefore you could probably start experiencing, uh, some of those successes from both of those, but it’s not under the same system.

 

Darren Gold: (26:26)

Yeah. A lot of resistance to change comes from a preference for one poll versus another. And one of the things that you know, for people that are listening to this, that are interested in or responsible for organizational change, I will often say that the very way we talk about change induces the very resistance to change that we’re trying to avoid, right? So oftentimes we talk about from two shifts, we’ve got to move from this to this and that language, right? While very well intentioned and maybe even accurate, right? Sets yourself up for failure because what you’re doing is you’re saying that something is wrong and something’s right. This is a problem to be solved when in reality, organizational dynamics are far more complex, right? And the reality is if you look at it closely enough through a different lens with a different distinction, what you’ll see is wait a second.

 

Darren Gold: (27:19)

The from and the two are actually two really good things, right? The centralized and centralized, that’s the classic Elio that organizations go through. All right, and they hire consultants. They spend millions of dollars, they, they’re centralized for three years and then they’re decentralized. Well, what if you started to see it differently? Said, wow, there’s a lot of benefits from decentralized. We get to focus on, you know, the particular customer at the point of sale, we let our best people make decisions at the front lines, right? And there’s a lot of wisdom and value and benefit from being centralized. We have consistency, we have uniformity. We can hold ourselves to common standards. What if instead of moving back and forth or deciding between the two, we said, is there a way to integrate? And that is the breakthrough. And now you don’t induce resistance. You don’t say, Hey, we got to move from decentralized to centralized. The best companies in the world, the best families in the world, the best leaders in the world begin to see what used to be problems to be solved, right. To choose one or the other. And they begin to see the value of both and they begin to integrate them. And that is a, that’s a game changer.

 

Jim Rembach: (28:21)

Well, that’s a very, that’s very helpful. Um, and talking about the ancient wisdom, talking about, you know, the guidance, talking about being able to understand all the emotional aspects of it. One of the things that we look to on the show or quotes to help point us in the right direction. And you have several quotes in the book that you share, but is there one or two that kind of stand out for you that you can share with us?

 

Darren Gold: (28:41)

Sure. Uh, you know, I love the first quote of the book, uh, and it’s a quote from Epictetus who was a stoic philosopher. If any of your listeners are interested, that’s a stoicism is a misunderstood and incredibly valuable philosophy. And he says, no one is free, who is not master of his own mind. Um, and it points to this fundamental notion that if we want to achieve whatever it is that we want in life, in whatever part of life it is, we have to master ourselves. And we have to avoid the seductive temptation to look outwards, to fix others, right? To make others do things that we aren’t, you know, that they’re not doing. So this, that, that quote to me sort of, you know, just encapsulates the importance of self mastery. And I really, that’s what I’d probably know. Point to the other one, just if you’re asking for a second one is Victor Frankel’s quote.

 

Darren Gold: (29:35)

And if your listeners aren’t familiar with Victor Frankel, he wrote an incredible book called man’s search for meaning. He was a of a Holocaust, uh, um, concentration camp. And he, and he, um, he says the, you know, the last of the human freedoms is the ability to choose, uh, the, our attitude regardless of our circumstances. Um, and that sort of goes back to what I said about the human superpower. Here’s a man who is in the most unimaginable conditions. Um, and knew in that moment that he had a choice about the meaning he gave his circumstances. He could have been an absolute despair and given up or he could have seen the beauty even in those horrific circumstances. And he chose the latter and he not only survived, but he’s been, you know, his, his work has been been a gift to the world. And so that for me is the another really key point of how much choice we have in terms of the way we, uh, we view our circumstances.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:32)

Well, I’m talking about that, uh, choice, decision making, all of that. Um, we talk about getting over the hump on the show and, you know, just even reading your bio, you’ve had tons in your life if you hadn’t had to have gotten over in order to be where you are today. Um, but errors, is there one that you know, that you’re open to sharing that could really make a difference for everybody?

 

Darren Gold: (30:53)

Yeah. Um, you know, one of the one decision I made was, um, and I talk about this in chapter five. It’s one of the more personal and intimate and vulnerable, uh, chapters, uh, for me was the decision to forgive my mother and I, you know, use air quotes around forgive because even the word having to forgive somebody implies that they did something wrong. And I’ve gotten to a pretty profound place in my life where I’m no longer capable of holding grudges against people, even when you could argue objectively that they’ve done some wrong. And I, I can see that I said there were some things my mother did in her life, um, that were regrettable and certainly, um, I’m sure if you were alive today would, would agree. Um, but that has nothing to do with, um, my ability to forgive completely, unconditionally forgiven a way that actually implies nothing was done wrong in the first place.

 

Darren Gold: (31:47)

Right? And so, you know, I had a story for 40 years of my life that I was abandoned by my mother, and it was a narrative that I held, uh, with some pride. Like, look what I’ve accomplished. I didn’t have a mother. I got abandoned, right? She did all these horrible things. And, uh, when I got in touch with that, um, and it got in touch with it in a really remarkable place, which was inside Folsom prison, uh, in the maximum security section of Folsom prison where I was working with men inside, which is another remarkable experience and story. Um, I was able to see how, um, how disempowering that was, how unfair and unjust it was and how it wasn’t serving me and the letting go of that story for me, the absolute, uh, unconditional forgiveness, um, and in its place, all I had was love for my mother. She had passed by that, um, was a remarkable act of grace and humility and maturity, um, and effectiveness for me. So that would be one that I, that I chair

 

Jim Rembach: (32:52)

well and, and that kinda hits me. I lost my mother not too long ago. And um, you know, on the, and there’s some things where, you know, you’d, like you were saying, I wish certain things that could have been a little bit different certain ways. And, and I have a choice to make, right? Um, and finding peace with all that is a path, uh, that I also, you know, kind of forced myself to go down because I could have, like in the book, I could have been that average person that says, well, you know, this, that, and the other and it is what it is and you know, or I could actually move to a different place. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, my pleasure. Now when I think about the work that you’re doing, when I think about this book, and as I said, I was like, Oh, this is something quite different. But yet it isn’t. It’s that underlying foundational component. But I have to imagine that you have certain aspirations and goals associated with this piece of work. And then also for me, it’s like you mentioned 10, you know, is there an 11th code shadowing of that? But if you were to say you had one particular goal with this work and where you’re headed, what would it be?

 

Darren Gold: (33:57)

Uh, books have changed my life. I’m an avid reader. You know, I probably read 30 or 40 books a year, uh, and through through my life, um, they’ve shaped who I am. They shaped how I’ve seen myself, others in the world. And, um, I always had this subconscious desire, uh, to give back in the form of a book. Uh, and I talk a little bit about this. You remember my chapter on identity, right? My, the most powerful driver of human behavior is the desire to be consistent with one’s identity. And I was holding an identity that I’m not an author. Uh, and it was changing that identity that allowed me to read this book. It’s a write this book. And the, the goal and I get really clear about it was I wanted to give the gift, um, the gift that I had, uh, to share this body of wisdom, um, to others and have as many people read it as possible and have them have the reaction, um, that I’m humbled to hear you say you had, which you know, ranges from, Oh my God, I never knew this too.

 

Darren Gold: (34:58)

This was life changing. Or I want to give this to people that I love and that kind of feedback, which, you know, the book’s now been published for a little over three weeks has been coming in pretty consistently and it just fills my heart and speaks to my mission of, you know, wanting to, um, give back, uh, to have an impact in the world. And, and, you know, boy do we need it. Um, you know, given the world we’re living in today. So if it can have some small measure of impact, uh, I would be, I would be delighted and I’m going to do everything I can to create awareness of it so that people have an opportunity to read it.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:34)

And the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:40)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award, winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships. With our colleagues and your customers to learn more about an even better place to work. Visit [inaudible] dot com board slash better. All right, here we go. Fastly Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh, okay. Darren. The hump they hold on as a part of our show where you give us good insights. Facts. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Darren gold, are you ready to hold down? I’m ready to down. All right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? Oh, that is a great question. Part of it is

 

Darren Gold: (36:30)

got it all figured out. Uh, and I’ll say that, you know, vulnerably, right? So I would say that for me is my work challenge myself. Uh, cause I certainly don’t. And when I love that belief, um, to sit there subconsciously, I’ll get complacent.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:47)

What is the best leadership advice you ever received?

 

Darren Gold: (36:51)

Uh, best leadership advice. I sort of alluded to the power of creating a future for people to live into. The one thing I think leaders underestimate is their ability through the use of language to create futures. People are living into a future all the time, but they’re doing it from a default place and it’s usually past arrived great leaders. The most powerful, the most effective leaders are ones that have a vision and then generate possibility for people by declaring what that future is. If you can do that consistently on message, um, that’s the, the one piece of advice I got and give to leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:23)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Darren Gold: (37:29)

Uh, one of my secrets, um, I, uh, I believe in daily rituals and, uh, I often say that, um, the act of doing something every day without exception is the act of an extraordinary person. So I have a 10 minute ritual. I do every single morning. I set my alarm clock 10 minutes before I’m otherwise supposed to get up. And I do it unfailingly. I never miss a day.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:53)

And what is one of your tools that you help believes lead you in business

 

Darren Gold: (37:57)

for life? Uh, my tools, my identity. So, um, we, we talked a little bit about this. Everybody’s got an identity. Most of us have a subconscious identity. We haven’t really examined. One of the tools, uh, that I offer is, um, reconstruct your identity, cause your, the actions you take will be a manifestation of the beliefs you hold about yourself. So I have an identity statement and I say that identity statement every single day, multiple times a day with a lot of emotional and physical, uh, intensity. And for me that, that primes me for the day. Um, but it helps me deliver the kind of results that I want.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:33)

Talking about that coding and programming, you’re doing it all the time, right? Yeah, exactly. Okay. So what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to master your code on your show notes page as well.

 

Darren Gold: (38:46)

Yeah. Uh, probably a book, not many people have heard about a failure of nerve by Edwin Friedman. It’s the number one leadership book other than humbly my book, uh, that I would recommend, uh, recommend to people. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s awesome.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/darren gold. Okay, Darren, this is my last hump. Hold on. Question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you could take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Darren Gold: (39:23)

Um, the one of the most profound, uh, breakthroughs for me was this notion of a responsible mindset. And, uh, I make the distinction between a victim mindset, which is the world happens to me. Circumstances shaped me. There’s very little I can do to affect my situation. Responsible mindset is the opposite. There’s always something I can do to affect every situation. And I go even further to say, you’re 100% responsible for your life. And, um, I think I had a little bit of that when I was 25, but boy would I have loved to have under really embodied and understood that distinction.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:57)

Darren, I had fun with you today. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you?

 

Darren Gold: (40:01)

I’ve got a website, uh, www dot Darren J gold, D a R R E N J G O L d.com and then my from the trim group trim group.com is a great resource as well.

 

Jim Rembach: (40:14)

Jared gold, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 254: Darren Gold: Master your code appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Darren Gold Show Notes Page Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code. Darren Gold decided to forgive his mother, but she did nothing wrong. Thankfully, he realized how unfair and unjust he had been and how holding a grudge was disserving. He was learning how to master his code.
Darren was born in London, England and moved to the San Fernando Valley, a suburb of Los Angeles, at the age of 8. His parents divorced shortly after moving to the US, and Darren grew up with his father in a one-bedroom apartment.
Darren was raised on the edge of poverty, surrounded by crime and addiction. Both his father and mother spent intermittent times in jail. Darren was determined at an early age to break out of this cycle, and was the first in his family to attend college. He went to UCLA where he supported himself and his father by working full time while attending school. Working as a copy boy in a law firm blocks from the UCLA campus convinced Darren to attend law school.
He graduated from The University of Michigan Law School and began his career as an attorney. He soon realized that he loved law school but didn’t feel the same way about the practice of law. He left legal practice after a year and a half and joined the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. He then went on to serve as a Partner at two San Francisco private equity firms where he sat on the boards of dozens of companies and was responsible for investing and managing hundreds of millions of dollars of capital. About a decade into this part of his career, Darren became the CEO of one of the companies for which he was serving as a board director.
After serving as CEO of two companies, Darren joined the Trium Group, an elite management consulting firm focused on the intersection of strategy execution and human performance. As a Managing Partner of Trium, Darren is an executive coach, advisor, and consultant to the CEOs and leadership teams of many of the world’s best-known organizations, including Roche, Dropbox, Lululemon, Sephora, Cisco, eBay, Activision, and Warner Bros.
His clients describe him as a visionary, transformational change agent. Darren is the author of Master Your Code: The Art, Wisdom, and Science of Leading an Extraordinary Life. A groundbreaking guide for rewriting your program and mastering every aspect of your life.
Darren currently lives in the Bay Area with his wife of 24 years and his youngest son. His two oldest children are currently in college studying business at SMU in Dallas, Texas and musical theater at Montclair State University in New Jersey.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @darrenjgold to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet
“Everybody has the opportunity to live an extraordinary life.” – Click to Tweet
“We have far more potential than we may otherwise believe.” – Click to Tweet
“The default way of being human is to hold a certain set of beliefs that were designed to keep us safe, not to thrive.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15777 https://www.fastleader.net/marylippitt/#comments https://www.fastleader.net/marylippitt/feed/ 4 <p>Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking. Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/marylippitt/">253: Mary Lippitt: Target what matters when it matters</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early years were spent in New Haven, CT; Lincoln, NE; Schenectady NY; Arlington VA; Paris, France; and Bethesda MD.  As the daughter of a minister, she moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed.

As an adult, Mary has lived in Buffalo, NY, Bartlesville, OK, Miami Fl, Bethesda MD (again), and now in Tampa Bay, Fl. And over the years, she worked for county government, an international electronics firm, and as director of a university’s master of human resources program.

These divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way we develop our leaders. We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual; their personal style, traits, and competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked.  Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues.  In Mary’s book, Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When It Matters, she offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration, that produce results.

Mary founded Enterprise Management Limited in 1984 and has served public, private, and non-profit clients interested in boosting critical thinking, the bottom line, and engagement. In the US, she has partnered with Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, SAIC, the US Department of Energy, and the US Marine Corps.  She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France, and Kuwait.

The role Mary enjoys the most is being a grandmother to her two grandsons, and she apologies to her daughter for making this statement. But grandparenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent.

Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her many travel adventures.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @marylippitt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet 

“You could deliver results and still care about people.” Click to Tweet 

“Kindness and results are not exclusive to each other; you could do both.” Click to Tweet  

“The success rate of change is dismal because the change agents don’t listen.” Click to Tweet  

“A mindset is a temporary point of view; it is not genetic or a personal style.” Click to Tweet  

“When I focus, I can achieve something.” Click to Tweet  

“If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions.” Click to Tweet  

“Change is probable, pervasive, problematic, and promising.” Click to Tweet  

“Change is where we’re going to have new opportunities, but we may not like the process of having to go through that change.” Click to Tweet  

“By the time I’m being forced I have fewer options. As long as I’m proactive I have more to choose from.” Click to Tweet  

“Leadership today is about asking the right questions, it’s not about having all the right answers.” Click to Tweet  

“No one has all the right answers, the world is too complex.” Click to Tweet  

“The focal point is important because that creates the common ground.” Click to Tweet  

“I realized, when you think differently from me you help me.” Click to Tweet  

“Instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, what can I learn.” Click to Tweet  

“I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realize no one does.” Click to Tweet  

“Our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow.” Click to Tweet  

Hump to Get Over

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Advice for others

Learn to be able to say you do not know.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

I like to follow new ideas that sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goals.

Best Leadership Advice

Listen, persevere, and respect others.

Secret to Success

I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions.

Best tools in business or life

I use a situational mindset checklist.

Recommended Reading

Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When it Matters

Thinking, Fast and Slow

The Art Of War

Contacting Mary Lippitt

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marylippitt/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/marylippitt

Website: https://enterprisemgt.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

253 Mary Lippitt episode

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have somebody on the show who is really going to give us some greater understandings and frameworks on how to be significantly more effective. Dr Mary lipids early years were spent in new Haven, Connecticut, Lincoln, Nebraska, Schenectady, New York, Arlington, Virginia, Paris, France in Bethesda, Maryland as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

nd as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:07)

We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual, their personal style or their traits and their competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked. Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues in Mary’s book, situational mindsets targeting what matters when it matters. She offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration that produces results. Mary founded enterprise management limited in 1984 and has served public, private and nonprofit clients interested in boosting critical thinking and bottom line and engagement in the U S she has partnered with bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, S a I see the us department of energy and the U S Marine Corps. She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France and Kuwait. The role Mary enjoys the most is bringing a grandmother to her grandsons and she apologizes to her daughter for making the statement, but grand Parenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent. Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her travel excursions, Mary lipid. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? Thank you. I’m really glad you’re here and I’m really excited to talk about this particular topic. But I think before we get into that, I think it’s extremely important for you to explain who is Kate Hollander?

 

Mary Lippitt: (02:33)

Kate Hollander is the new head of sales at a printing company in Denver. And she walks into a situation where her staff really would prefer that she would not be there because they would wanted her job. The sales are declining rapidly. There are silos between the organizations in the, uh, between, uh, sales production and she, the owner is a micromanager. So she has a lot or plate from the get go. And the story talks about how she’s resolves this by delivering results, but also at the same time by making sure that people are engaged and respect it. What I’m trying to show in this story of Kate is that you could deliver results and still care about people. You know, kindness and results are not exclusive to each other. You can do both. And that this is what Kate shows people how to deliver results, but to work well together

 

Jim Rembach: (03:38)

well, and to give this even more justice. What you did is really set a very important setting and how Kate actually goes about her work when you talk about her being a medic. So if you could explain that a little bit, I think that’s a really good foundational elements to kind of help give people some understanding and context when we get into this discussion about these situational mindsets.

 

Mary Lippitt: (04:02)

Okay. Kate had been in sales before for a medical device manufacturer, but after nine 11, she chose to serve in the military and serve as a medic. So she’s coming off of tours in the middle East and she’s accepted a job in an industry that she is not familiar with. And so she knows about sales, but her recent experience is really in middle East and being a medic rather than a sales person. So there’s a lot of discounting her, uh, stereotypes about, you know, what can she do for us and you know, she’s younger than we are and all sorts of other aspects. Cloud, uh, the initial impression of her, uh, what really happens is that there is actually the restaurant next to her, the printing business, there’s an explosion. And then they see her in action and they realize a couple of things. Not only is she very decisive, but she also, no one knows when to step back.

 

Mary Lippitt: (05:08)

She handles the triage effectively. She directs people clearly and with respect, no panic. But when the emergency medical people arrive, she knows to step back. So this is not someone who is really out to, to, to, to look like on the hero. Uh, she works well with others and people realize, well she goes have some skills, maybe she doesn’t know a lot about printing yet. And the, she has to balance a reality that the owner of the business is pushing her go, go, go, go. And she recognizes that the sales have been going down for a while. So it isn’t just a motivational thing. There really are some other aspects. So she uses her honeymoon period just to sit back and do some analysis of what it is that’s really happening. And in that process she recognizes that, that her staff is using a transactional approach, just get the sale and move on.

 

Mary Lippitt: (06:11)

And she knows that customer service, uh, as you would know, well, requires a lot more than that. And she talks to the team and helps them come up with a ability to tailor their interactions with their potential clients to make sure that they have a solid sale and one that survives the actual first, um, order to deliver additional orders. And, and this is really resisted at first because after all, she doesn’t know the printing business and, you know, why should we change? We would be doing it this way for so long. And so she actually takes a step back and instead of trying to, um, demand, um, compliance, she actually works with her staff. She goes on sales calls with them, she doesn’t try to upstage them and she shows very early, they sh that she is trying to help them because she’s identified what their major problems are within the organization and she tackles those right away to gain some early wins to build the confidence that she really is going to be someone that helps them.

 

Mary Lippitt: (07:21)

So there’s a lot going on that she’s trying to juggle. And I should mention that she got this job because the vice-president charge of operations for title’s vice president of sales was someone she worked with in the military. So he was her advocate and the owner was a little reluctant to hire. She didn’t have the Printy experience. And again, he was hit the deck running nose down to the grindstone kind of guy. And, and so this, um, strong recommendation is, is the reason that she got the job, but the welcome was a little bit lukewarm.

 

Jim Rembach: (07:56)

Well, but you also talk about that and everything that you described there and the competing forces associated with this. So there’s, you know, the situations of threat from outside, um, you know, all the marketplace, you know, pressures, you talk about the internal culture, uh, you talk about, you know, uh, people trying to silo, you know, uh, protect, I mean, all of these different factors that I think everybody can relate to in so many different ways. And, and so then you start explaining this whole really how you navigate all of this and how Kate navigates all this. And that is in the situational mindset model. So if you could talk about the, the six components or elements of the situational mindset model because of if you just take them by word, um, you could potentially be misled and I think you need to explain them a little bit.

 

Mary Lippitt: (08:43)

Okay. There, there are six mindsets. Let me just preface my comments by people say, Oh, there’s gotta be more than that. I will remind people that there are three primary colors and we get lots cubes. There are seven musical notes, so we get lots of melodies. So having six is not as outrageous as it may seem. So let me identify the six. The first is I call inventing. It is a focus on what are the new products we should consider, uh, what are the new technologies that we can apply? What are the synergies that we can create internally or externally? So this is a focus on making sure that you are offering the products that are state of the art. And we do know that, you know, certain companies really go out of their way to make sure that they are state of the art, you know, whether it’s an Apple or or whatever organization it is.

 

Mary Lippitt: (09:38)

Having that reputation really is a discriminating factor for many customers. So that’s the first one. The second one is very customer oriented, calling it the catalyzing mindset. And in this mindset we’re looking at who our key customers, how can we increase our customer base, how can retain our customers, how can we provide them with customer service? What are the emerging customer needs? So both the first two are very external to the organization. They’re looking at technology and new ideas. They’re looking at the customer, which is obviously external. And those are really what I would call the entrepreneurial stages, the small business getting started. And then there’s a shift from the external point of view to looking at the organization. And I know you’re very familiar with the fact that organizations can grow rapidly, but sometimes there’s a lot of chaos in that growth. And so the third mindset is called the developing mindset.

 

Mary Lippitt: (10:41)

And it takes a look at how should we be organized? Should we be functional matrix, geographic product, whatever. But it’s also establishing, you know, what are our policies? What’s our pay policy, what’s our, uh, our policy on promotions. It’s taking a look at what are the systems that we need? How is information going to flow? What are the decision making practices we have? So it’s what I’ll call a macro orientation to how we function. And this is the orientation that says let’s take a look at our goals and make sure that we’re doing the right thing rather than just doing things right. So that’s the third one. The fourth one is also internal look, but it’s more of a micro look. Then the infrastructure develop a mindset. We call that the performing mindset. And in this mindset, what we take a look at are things like process improvement, a quality improvement, workflow analysis, facility layout improvement, um, return on investment, meeting the budget, uh, vendor management, supply chain management, all of the, the, the adjustments, the tweaking, the polishing of a work flow.

 

Mary Lippitt: (11:57)

And of course, you know, that is where we get the efficiency. So this is a very efficiency but quality oriented mindset. So the, the fifth mindset is still internal, but it’s taking look at the people is taking a look. What is a talent we have? Do they have the right competencies? How do we retain them? Do we have good collaboration? Do we have engagement? Do we have a succession plan? Do we have an agile culture? Are we change ready? Uh, are we proud of ourselves or do we set, have a sense of commitment and loyalty. All of the without broadly call the people and culture aspects. And, and again, some people tend to discount this area and I would just like to remind people that Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So this although may not have the pazazz of a customer sale, uh, if you don’t keep your sales people, if you don’t have the right compensation system for them, if they’re not proud of your product, they will stay with you.

 

Mary Lippitt: (13:03)

And you call that the protecting mindset. Why protecting? Because it’s protecting what we’ve achieved in terms of our product, our customers, our infrastructure and our processes. So it’s protecting all that we’ve built so far. And this is a very proud, you know, stage. And in that every one of these stages has many advantages, but many also disadvantages. And what can happen with protecting is that I’m so proud of what I’ve got. I won’t change. You know, we’ve, we’ve perfected everything, don’t mess with success. And the sixth and final mindset is taking a look at the trends that we need to adjust to. It’s called the challenging mindset because it’s challenging what we’ve already established. And this is taking a look at new initiatives, new business opportunities that we may have. It takes a look at maybe new business models. And again, just talking about the printing industry for a second.

 

Mary Lippitt: (14:04)

You know, there was a time when people would say, no one, no one will ever buy a book without being able to go to a store, open the book and look at, you know, but nobody will buy the book. Um, and I will say that Amazon has such, uh, show them how false that assumption was. So the challenging mindset looks at business models changing the strategy, adapting the strategy. It also takes a look at what of some potential new partnerships that we should go after. What are the kinds of alliances we should make? You know, it’s taking a look at positioning the organization for the future. There’s a lovely quote from Mark Twain that, you know, if you’re on the right track, that’s great, but you just stay there, you’re going to get run over. And the challenging mindset is going to tell you this is, you know, an opportunity to continue to grow.

 

Mary Lippitt: (14:56)

We don’t have to throw the baby out with the bath water. What we really can do is take what we’ve done well expanded, prepare us. We have to be an organization that sustains itself. So those are the six. And again, three of them are internally focused. The developing, the performing and the protecting. And three of them are really externally focused. The challenging, which is looking at the trends, you know, what does the demographic difference mean for us? Uh, what does it mean? You know, that the interest rates are lower than we had anticipated. All those things have to be considered. So the challenging, the inventing and the catalyzing mindset look more externally. And what’s really interesting is most change agents are looking at challenging, inventing and catalyzing. And we know that the success rate of change is dismal. And that’s because the change agents get so excited about their idea that they don’t listen to the other mindsets that people have. And again, a mindset is a temporary point of view. It is not genetic, it is not a personal style. It say I’m going to do what I think is most important. And um, historically we had something called faster, cheaper and better and we would say, you know, do it faster and then it will obviously be cheaper. No, not necessarily. So this framework in the largest, that faster, cheaper, better into a more comprehensive analysis.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:25)

No, but I think you bring up a really interesting point, right? So it’s, I have these six elements and as you were explaining them, I started thinking about all these different subsets. So I’m like, okay, I’m an organization and it was all as you, if you, if you still even thinking about that from a champion perspective, they can’t focus on everything. It’s just not possible. The whole, you know, multitasking myth is, is quite true. While we have to do a lot of things, uh, it doesn’t mean that we can focus on a lot of things. So when you start talking about choosing and choosing, which mindset, how do you go about doing that?

 

Mary Lippitt: (16:57)

Well, the first thing is you have to do a comprehensive analysis of your situation. And the term, the title of the book is talking about mindset, which is a present orientation. What’s, what am I facing now? But instead of having it be your mindset about myself and my own capabilities, it’s doing an awareness of the actual situation that I’m confronting. And so I would love to do six things simultaneously, but, but I know that I can’t text and drive, so I have to become aware of my limitations. And that’s not a bad thing because when I focus, I can achieve something. If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions. I haven’t really analyzed everything and I’ll come across as someone who is a chameleon. First she wants this, then she wants that kind of thing. So we have to make choices.

 

Mary Lippitt: (17:50)

But those choices are not permanent. I think people resisted a choice because they thought, okay, this is gonna be a five year plan or a 10 year plan and what we have now is the speed of change is coming so fast that we could do one priority to time complete it and move on to another. There was a lovely story about the fact that if you’re driving a car, you adjust your position, your hands, your eyes, every nine seconds and you know, this is the rate of change and change is probable, pervasive, problematic and promising. So you know, the change is where we’re going to have new opportunities that we may not like the process of having to go through that change, but we’re going to have to to be successful.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:40)

Well, and I think as you said that there’s one thing for me that I think is kind of stands out as that I would rather be proactive and rather it be voluntary than be forced.

 

Mary Lippitt: (18:49)

Yes. Because by the time I’m being forced, I have fewer options as long as I’m proactive, I have more to choose from.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:57)

Yeah. That’s funny that you say that. My daughter right now is a, uh, in high school and she’s a junior and I’m like, you need to start looking at schools. I said, because if you don’t do that, because she’s also an athlete, I said, you know, you have to start creating relationships that you surely should have already been building. If you want a roster spot, you know that it’s all about relationships these days. I mean, they, yes, they look at the athleticism and you know, athletic abilities, but they also want to make sure they’re finding the right cultural fit. It’s become so darn important. You’re, you’re going to be left with whatever the scraps are if you don’t get moving.

 

Mary Lippitt: (19:31)

And one of the things she should be considering is getting tapes of her in action. I mean, there are things that she could do now to help her, you know, identify the coaches that she might want to send information to, you know, and maybe even look at those where she can get on the roster and maybe also look at those where she could get a scholarship. So, I mean it looks like it’s far off to just somebody, but, but there are things we can do now to position ourselves well for the future.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:58)

That’s right. And that’s just exactly what we’re talking about as far as, you know, really being able to, okay, now I understand this framework, uh, and then I need to go about the choosing process, but I need to master this. I mean, because I need to be proactive with it. I cannot be reactive. I’m going to lose choices and options. I’m going to be the one being disrupted instead of being the disruptor. And so I have to master it. So now it’s a master. You talk about really two key key elements. There’s probably more if they are, please explain them. But you talk about focal points and guiding questions. Explain them.

 

Mary Lippitt: (20:30)

Well, I think I w w I would say is the guided questions are helping us identify all the information first. Because what happens is the, sometimes we have an idea but we don’t really test it out. Is this really the best option I have? So the questions become a checklist to make sure I’ve collected the data from everyone. And again, one of my assumptions is that leadership today is about asking the right questions. It’s not about having all the right answers cause no one has all the right answers. The world is too complex. So getting the questions surfaces the data so then I can evaluate it and set my priority or the focal point. But then I can also communicate that focal point by explaining exactly why this is the most important thing to tackle at this point in time.

 

Jim Rembach: (21:21)

Well I think the importance here too is that, okay, so I need to learn this framework. I need to have stir start working on mastering this framework because I do have to decide faster and I can’t just decide based off of what I’ve known or even what others are doing. Because if I look at these situations, um, there, there’s that unique DNA that starts actually revealing itself and that’s what I have to work with.

 

Mary Lippitt: (21:45)

Correct. I think the only thing I would say is that the, I have to keep reminding people that a mindset is a very temporary thing. So just to say it, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s fun following what the current priority or issue is, but it isn’t a permanent label of what I will always choose. Uh, you mentioned that I lived in Buffalo, New York and it’s in a, in a hurricane over in Florida or blizzard in Buffalo, New York. You don’t care what the background, whether somebody graduated from, uh, you know, in engineering or someone graduated in art. If they can help you get out of the storm, you say, thank you. So the focal point is important because that creates the common ground that creates the teamwork that makes things happen. And it could be a very temporary thing. I mean I can, if I’m in a blizzard and I, I can’t even open my car door cause it’s frozen and somebody tells me how to do it, you know, I’m thankful but I’ve learned it, I’ll move on. So I’m talking about a mindset is a very, very temporary assessment of what is most important to do. But that temporary assessment is going to help me set the priority, which means I can focus and achieve the results.

 

Jim Rembach: (23:05)

Yeah. We have to have that built in agility. Right. Okay. So you all off, you know, through our, our discussion here, um, used many different co quotes and those are absolutely focal points. You know, they point us in the right direction and we really, you know, look at those on the fast leader show and share them a lot. So is there one or two they’re all riddled throughout your book? You’ve mentioned a few, but it’s are kind of one or two that stand out for you as focal points.

 

Mary Lippitt: (23:31)

Well, I think there’s one from Ben Franklin. I like that. Just something like, Oh, if you stop, if you don’t think creatively you, it’s like giving up your, your, your future, your life. I it thinking is critical to our life and it gets a bad name, particularly the term critical thinking. Cause it sounds like I have to be a cynic or I have to be, you know, poking somebody in, putting up shortfalls. But really critical thinking, you know, it could be as subtle as, would you want me to investigate this aspect of this? You know, and people say yes. So you can be very comprehensive in your analysis without being, you know, a naysayer or a problem child kind of thing.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:19)

Now it’s interesting that you say that. I mean a lot of people may say, well it’s just semantics but it’s semantics are critically important. I’m sorry. I think give us context and they give us understanding. It’s like we’ve built a fide so many different words in our society that, you know, if we would have used them just a hundred years ago would have had a totally different, you know, context. I mean, I often refer to the one of ignorant and if you look it up, it just says innocent, unknowing. But yet if anything is labeled as ignorant, it is vilified. And that’s just, that’s just unfortunate. Now when we start talking about these, these transformations, these transitions, these learnings and all that stuff, I mean we talk about getting over the hump on the show. Um, and those personal stories of when we had those experiences can be so helpful for others. I just was telling my daughter the other day, I said, even though you may not want to hear my stories, you know, if you actually work to listen, seeing that we’re very similar in the way that we go about thinking, maybe you’ll gain some insight for yourself, you know, choose a better path. Of course she doesn’t want to hear that from dad. But, um, is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

Mary Lippitt: (25:26)

Yes. Um, early in my career I thought rational analysis would always win the day. And I was trying to influence up, uh, the chain of command and I got rejected and I couldn’t believe it. I was dumbfounded. And it wasn’t until I got a task I was, we had a, this was a large organization, we had about 30,000 employees and I got tasked with writing the head executives monthly column to the employees. So I got to sit down and talk with him. And we saw things very differently as what was a priority and how we analyzed it was very different. Now if you’re writing the top executive, you got to adjust your thinking to his point of view. Obviously extra. I write something, he’s going to review it, he’s going to edit it. He would rather not have to edit it heavily. So I hadn’t, I had to start opening my own mind.

 

Mary Lippitt: (26:32)

I have to tell you, I was convinced sometimes that I had more answers than I really had and I thought I saw things more clearly than I really did. Um, there’s, there’s a comment, you know, what you see is not all there is. And I, that was my opening to begin to recognize I didn’t see everything and all the facts that I thought I had had many gaps but I’d never had collected them. So that exercise of writing for him really showed me how differently people fought. And again, we tend in our society to say, if you think differently from me, you’re wrong. And, um, what I realized was when you think differently from me, you helped me. You helped me, I benefit from these differences. And so instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, you know, what can I learn? How do they see reality?

 

Mary Lippitt: (27:31)

What am I missing? And you know, there’s lots of stories about, you know, witnesses to car accidents and you know, everybody saw the same accident but they recall different things. That’s what we have to recognize in our organizations. People are going to focus on different things. Some will get the right, so we’ll get the wrong, but we’ve got at least collect them before we can evaluate them. And that was how I started to realize there really was, um, great wisdom that I was missing. And so I really learned the importance of asking more questions rather than asking just a couple of, you know, jumping into my conclusions, which I was fairly sure I was right. Um, I mean this is basically the confirmation bias. I collected the information that supported my point of view. And sometimes I remind people that at one point in time bankers said you could give a 95% mortgage because home prices never go down more than 5%. That was a false assumption. And so I’m beginning to become maybe is more humble because I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realized that no one does. And so this is why we need to work together. And so I think we could work together to produce results. But we also, when we work together, we show respect for another person. We showed that we value them and we therefore engage them and we get the kind of collaboration and teamwork that makes our jobs very satisfying.

 

Jim Rembach: (29:03)

Well, the only way that it does that though, Mary, is because if we have, you know, very useful frameworks because otherwise all of that diversity and different perspectives are going to not enable us to move forward. And that’s why I’m really glad that you’ve actually shared these situational mindset models and everything else that goes with it. So when I start looking at that and looking at the, you know, where you’ve been in the work that you’ve done in the work that you’re still yet to do, when I start thinking about some of the goals you have, um, I’d like to hear one, what is one goal that you have?

 

Mary Lippitt: (29:37)

I would like to expand our definition of leadership to include making sure that we balance the short and the longterm and the ability to gain active support from others. I think that our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow and I value everything we’ve done in the past. Um, just it, my uncle Ronald lipid with Kurt Loland did the very first leadership study in 1938 it was called the Lou and liquid white study and they came up with laissez Faire leadership and all that. And I really think everything that we’ve done in leadership has been fantastic, uh, whether it’s group dynamics, whether it’s emotional intelligence, whether it’s style, whatever else. But I think we’ve left out our situational ability to, to deliver, uh, the best for the organization. So I really would like to expand how we look at leadership

 

Jim Rembach: (30:43)

and this world of customer centric transformation. And you know, I’m a digital transformation and all of that. This type of leadership is really bottled to not just the success of an organization, but the existence of an organization and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com for slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay Mary, the hump day. Hold on as a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to be as give us robust yet rapid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Mary rib lipid. Are you ready to hoedown all right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Mary Lippitt: (31:55)

I like to so much to look at new ideas, but sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goal so I can become distracted and I need to re remember it again. What is my priority today?

 

Jim Rembach: (32:14)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:18)

Listen, persevere and respect others.

 

Jim Rembach: (32:24)

What do you believe is one of your secrets that helps you contribute to your success?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:29)

I think I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions.

 

Jim Rembach: (32:33)

And what is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Mary Lippitt: (32:38)

I a situational mindset checklist. It’s a basically reminding me what questions I need to ask and those questions can be tailored to the level of the organization or the type of industry. So that really helps me. And I know that some people discount the, the, the importance of a checklist, but I’ll say lawyers, doctors, pilots and Santa Claus. You checklist

 

Jim Rembach: (33:04)

and what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to situational mindsets on your show notes page as well.

 

Mary Lippitt: (33:14)

Well, I think the Daniel Kahneman’s thinking fast and slow is absolutely fantastic book. And I also will give a shout out to the art of war, my son zoo many, many years ago, which again talked about the importance of learning the lay of the ground. And that’s what I’m talking about with situationals concepts.

 

Jim Rembach: (33:34)

Okay. Fast, literally. And you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/mary lipid. Okay, Mary, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have no back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Mary Lippitt: (33:57)

I would take back the ability to say I do not know. And the that leads to my willingness, um, to ask the questions and again, engage people and make a better decision. I really, I think for a while thought I do not know, was demeaning of me when I now realize it is showing the fact that I understand the complexity of this world.

 

Jim Rembach: (34:24)

Mary, I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the fast leader Legion how they can connect with you?

 

Mary Lippitt: (34:30)

Uh, they can connect with me at Mary, at situational mindsets.com or www, situational mindsets.com

 

Jim Rembach: (34:39)

Mary lipid, thank you for sharing and knowledge and wisdom. Fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

The post 253: Mary Lippitt: Target what matters when it matters appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and sh... Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.
Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early years were spent in New Haven, CT; Lincoln, NE; Schenectady NY; Arlington VA; Paris, France; and Bethesda MD.  As the daughter of a minister, she moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed.
As an adult, Mary has lived in Buffalo, NY, Bartlesville, OK, Miami Fl, Bethesda MD (again), and now in Tampa Bay, Fl. And over the years, she worked for county government, an international electronics firm, and as director of a university’s master of human resources program.
These divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way we develop our leaders. We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual; their personal style, traits, and competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked.  Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues.  In Mary’s book, Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When It Matters, she offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration, that produce results.
Mary founded Enterprise Management Limited in 1984 and has served public, private, and non-profit clients interested in boosting critical thinking, the bottom line, and engagement. In the US, she has partnered with Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, SAIC, the US Department of Energy, and the US Marine Corps.  She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France, and Kuwait.
The role Mary enjoys the most is being a grandmother to her two grandsons, and she apologies to her daughter for making this statement. But grandparenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent.
Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her many travel adventures.
Tweetable Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @marylippitt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet 
“You could deliver results and still care about people.” – Click to Tweet 
“Kindness and results are not exclusive to each other; you could do both.” – Click to Tweet  
“The success rate of change is dismal because the change agents don’t listen.” – https://www.fastleader.net/?p=15754 https://www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski/#respond https://www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski/feed/ 0 <p>Jack Modzelewski Show Notes Page Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things. Jack [...]</p> <p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski/">252: Jack Modzelewski: Talk is Chief</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.fastleader.net">Fast Leader Show Podcast</a>.</p> Jack Modzelewski Show Notes Page

Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things.

Jack grew up in a Chicago suburb with his working-class parents and two older brothers. His father worked for in security for General Electric. His mother, a Polish immigrant, came to the U.S. before WW II. His parents wanted him to be a teacher. But Jack had larger ambitions when he graduated from the University of Illinois with a bachelor’s degree in communications.

Jack’s early job experience started at age 11, first delivering newspapers and caddying and then clerking in a wholesale goods business. As a teenager, he wanted to be a journalist, like one of his older brothers. He worked as a reporter on his high school and his university newspapers, and also college summers for a local newspaper.

After college his first job was an account executive for a prestigious New York ad agency founded by men who went on to serve as a governor and a U.S. senator, respectively. But Jack found the Mad Men world of advertising limiting, so he pursued his first love – journalism. He earned a Master’s degree in Journalism at Northwestern University. He then worked as an award-winning reporter covering government and politics in Illinois.   During that time, he also hosted a public affairs radio show on a Chicago hard rock station.

He made the transition to public relations when he accepted a job thinking he would “try PR” for a year. That was the first of his 33 years working for international public relations firms and advising dozens of clients. Jack spent the last 26 years of his agency career with Fleishman Hillard, a leading global communications firm.

Most recently he was president of the Americas with responsibility for FH’s largest group of regions and its 1,800 people. Earlier in his FleishmanHillard career he spent years as president overseeing its offices in Europe. At FH his teams won many prestigious awards, including a Gold Lion with client General Motors at the Cannes Festival for Creativity, and Global Agency of the Year from PRWeek. Jack has attended five World Economic Forums in Davos, Switzerland, and has spoken at WEF conferences on four continents.

Jack is now chief executive of JackKnifePR, which provides communication advisory services to corporations, start-ups, and non-profit organizations. In his book Talk is Chief – Leadership, Communications and Credibility in a High-Stakes World, Jack shares with current and future leaders his life-long experiences advising organizational chiefs on messaging, media, marketing, crisis management, and stakeholder relationships.

Jack also serves his community as the board chairman of the Better Government Association and is a co-chair for Northwestern University’s capital campaign. In 2015, he was inducted into the Medill Hall of Achievement at Northwestern.

Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @JackKnifePR1 to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet 

“I don’t think leaders really think in those terms that 90% of their day is spent talking and communicating.” – Click to Tweet 

“In a major leadership position, people pay attention to what you say every day.” – Click to Tweet  

“Leadership communication is so important, especially in this day and age because it is so transparent.” – Click to Tweet  

“If people listen to someone talk for 20 minutes and they tune out, then the communicator failed.” – Click to Tweet  

“People have to take a look at their own communication style and methods and practices and be judged by others that they’re trying to communicate with.” – Click to Tweet 

“In these times, people expect information very fresh right after things happen.” – Click to Tweet 

“Leaders and their organizations can prepare by making sure that a lot of people are vigilant about things that could happen.” – Click to Tweet 

“Often a crisis starts out as a smaller issue that’s been ignored or neglected.” – Click to Tweet 

“You have to keep calm and make decisions and make them as quickly as you can with the best information you can and just keep going.” – Click to Tweet  

“Communication on a daily basis is important. It’s a management function. It’s a strategic function of organizations.” – Click to Tweet 

“When someone says, well, you know, you’ve got to communicate better, they kind of take that for granted.” – Click to Tweet 

“These days there are high expectations on organizations from their constituents on what is their purpose and are they really delivering on it?” – Click to Tweet  

“What’s in our DNA that makes us a little different from that company, is something that a lot of organizations struggle with.” – Click to Tweet 

Hump to Get Over

Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things.

Advice for others

Stay calm in times of crisis.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Time. We’re all constrained by time and I’m the type of person who likes to stay on top of so many things and it seems like there’s not enough time in a day to do that.

Best Leadership Advice

No matter what happens, especially in bad times, maintain your confidence, keep smiling to your people around you, keep challenging them and make sure that, they never look at you and say, wow, you know, this is the end.

Secret to Success

I’ve always been fairly direct with people.

Best tools in business or life

The opinions of others. Having those relationships where you can bounce your ideas, your feelings about things off of other people.

Recommended Reading

Talk Is Chief: Leadership, Communication, and Credibility in a High-Stakes World

Worthy Fights: A Memoir of Leadership in War and Peace

Two Paths: America Divided or United

Contacting Jack Modzelewski

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-modzelewski-03b02922/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JackKnifePR1

Website: https://www.jackknifepr.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

252: Jack Modzelewski: Talk is Chief

 

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have somebody on the show today who is going to help us with something that is at the core of what we do in leading right ourselves and others.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:11)

Jack Modzelewski grew up in a Chicago suburb with his working class parents and two older brothers. His father worked in security for general electric. His mother was a Polish immigrant and came to the U S before world war II. His parents wanted him to be a teacher, but Jack had larger ambitions when he graduated from the university of Illinois with a bachelor’s degree in communications. Jackson early job experience started at age 11 first delivering newspapers and caddying and then clerking in a wholesale goods business as a teenager. He wanted to be a journalist, like one of his older brothers. He worked as a reporter on his high school and his university newspapers and also college summers for a local newspaper after college. His first job was an account executive for prestigious New York ad agency founded by men who went on to serve as a governor and a us Senator respectively.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:01)

But Jack found the mad men world of advertising limiting, so he pursued his first love, which was journalism. He earned a master’s degree in journalism at Northwestern university and he then worked as an award winning reporter covering government and politics in Illinois. During that time, he also hosted a public radio affairs show on a Chicago hard rock station. He made the transition to public relations when he accepted a job thinking he would try PR for a year. That was the first of his 33 years working for international public relations firms and dozens of advertising clients. Jack spent the last 26 years of his agency career with FleishmanHillard, a leading global communications firm. Most recently he was president of the Americas with responsibility for FH, his largest group of regions, and it’s 1800 people. Earlier in his Fleishman Hillard career, he spent years as president overseeing its offices in Europe.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:56)

At FH, his team’s won many prestigious awards including a gold lion with client general motors at the con film festival for creativity and global agency of the year from PR week. Jack has attended five world economic forums in Davos, Switzerland and has spoken at WEF conferences on four continents. Jack is now chief executive of JackKnifePR, which provides communication advisory services to corporations, startups, and nonprofit organizations. In his book talk is cheap leadership, communications and credibility in a high stakes world. Jack shares with current and future leaders, his lifelong experiences advising organizational chiefs on messaging, media marketing, crisis management, and stakeholder relations. Jack also serves this community as the board chairman of the better government association and as a co-chair for Northwestern university’s capital campaign in 2015 he was inducted into the med Hill hall of achievement at Northwestern. Jack currently this in Chicago with Susan, his wife of 41 wonderful years. Jack Modzelewski are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Jack: (03:05)

I sure am. Jim.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:06)

I’m glad you’re here and I’m really excited about what we’re going to share, but before we do that, I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, so can you share with us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? Well, my current passion remains being involved in society. Uh, you mentioned that I’m chairman of the better government association. I’ve always had an interest in, uh, not just politics, but government issues, problems all around us that government is trying to solve. And that’s why I’ve been involved in this organization for almost nine years. Uh, we just had a very big event where we had the mayor of Chicago and some other major speakers there. But in addition to that, I still love, uh, counseling clients of all kinds, especially a start up in emerging organizations where communication and marketing is just so vital to their future.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:05)

Well, and talking about vital in the book, you know, you mentioned something that to me, I had to stop and really ponder that for quite awhile. And you were mentioning how communication takes up as much as 90% of a leader’s day. And even when you started talking about politics and the societal issues that we have to deal with, these are big problems and communication and effective communication is at the core of all of them. But 90% Jack?

 

Jack: (04:29)

Well, think about it. So, uh, the average leader gets up in the morning, probably is tweeting, looking at emails on the phone with colleagues, uh, customers, uh, key stakeholders throughout the day. They’re in meetings where they’re constantly communicating or they’re on the phone or they have speaking engagements or they’re on television or they’re talking to people on wall street. So I don’t think leaders really think in those terms that 90% of their day is spent talking and communicating.

 

Jim Rembach: (05:07)

And so when you think of it that way, you would probably say to be most effective to optimize that time every day. I should probably try to think about this a little bit more, be as prepared as I can have the best people around me helping me with it. And I will probably at the end of the day or at the end of the year, be a more effective communicator driving performance in my organization.

 

Jim Rembach: (05:31)

Well, you know, even as you’re saying that, I’m starting to think about, well that that’s really at all levels of an organization, you know, and even if correct line dealing with customers, I mean that that communication component for some could even be higher than the 90%.

 

Jack: (05:46)

Oh, certainly. Certainly. And I’m sure there are people who spend 100% of their time communicating. But at the leadership level, I mean, if you’re at the top of the organization, it doesn’t have to be just a chief executive.

 

Jack: (05:58)

It can be anyone in a major leadership position. It’s even more important because people pay attention to what you say every day and whether there is any change in direction or whether they’re picking up on trendlines or nuances that might change how they do their jobs or the direction in which the organization is going. So that’s why, um, leadership communication is so important, especially in this day and age because it is so transparent. Uh, there was a time, and I worked during that time back in another century, in the 20th century where, uh, leaders may occasionally give a speech. They might occasionally send a message or an email around to the organization. And that didn’t happen very often and leaders weren’t very visible. Today they’re constantly visible.

 

Jim Rembach: (06:52)

Well, and even as you’re talking about that, I mean there’s a couple of things that stand out for me and one being is that even when you start looking at people’s resumes, for example though, everybody will, you know, say and self-disclose, you know, that they’re great communicators, both written and verbal communications. However, that just can’t be true. We know it’s not true. So what are they missing in their own self assessment?

 

Jim Rembach: (07:15)

Well, it’s always on the receiving end. So, uh, I think it’s incumbent on people. I had to do this in my own career and I still do to ask the people that I’m communicating to, did I make my point? Did you understand what I was trying to communicate to you? What did you take away from it? You know, whether we’re watching the news or watching a movie or engaged in a conversation with friends or colleagues, we always walk away saying, what did we take away from that experience? And I think that’s the key part of communication. Uh, if people listen to someone talk for 20 minutes and they tune out, then the communicator failed. Um, but if people come away with, gees, that person said two or three very compelling things that I can use in my own life that I can use in my own job, that I can invest in, whatever it might be, then they’ve communicated effectively. I’m a self assessment standpoint, people have to take a look at their own communication style and methods and practices and be judged by others that they’re trying to communicate with.

 

Jim Rembach: (08:30)

Well, even as you’re saying that, I start thinking about, well, there’s a whole neuroscience behind this, then.

 

Jack: (08:36)

There is, and certainly I would never pretend to be a neuro scientist, but I have read some books on it. I have paid attention to, you know, the cognitive abilities of human beings. And what makes this more, most important today is that there are so many distractions around us. As you know, uh, people sit at their desks and they have all these options. They can do work, they can communicate with friends and colleagues. Taken shop, if they’re a company, policies, allow them to shop online during the day. Tremendous distractions all the time. People are constantly on their phones, uh, tweeting, doing Instagram and so forth. So this is what people are competing with when they’re trying to reach people. Um, and you know, that’s why, uh, leaders have been trained and the ones who are really best know how to be very concise in making their points and trying to get it down to a soundbite of, you know, 10 or 15 or 20 words that people were actually going to remember.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:47)

Well, as you were saying that too, there’s something you mentioned before that I think is kind of a, a risk. And you talk about, you know, risk in a lot of different ways in the book, but we talk about transparency, the need for transparency. However, transparency can often be a very, very slippery slope. So where are mostly are falling when it comes to transparency?

 

Jack: (10:09)

I believe they, uh, they have a problem with transparency, not because they’re trying to mislead people or not give them the complete information, but sometimes there’s a big disparity between what people on the outside of an organization think and know about that organization or even inside the organization. And sometimes the leader is ahead or sometimes the leader is aware of turbulence on the way or problems that only a small group of people know about. And um, obviously maybe they’re trying to solve these problems before they come public, but that’s usually where they have transparency issues where someone says, well, wait a second, how long did you know that we were going to have a major sales decline in the third quarter? Or how long have you known about this problem in one of our production plants? Um, where, you know, we’re going to have to shut down the plant and fix it or make changes or those types of things or that, you know, we are about to lose a major contract with one of our customers. So I think, um, in these times, people expect information very fresh right after things happen. And when there’s a time gap, I think that’s when people perceive and accused leaders of saying, well geez, you weren’t transparent enough with us. So it, it, it’s a big responsibility on leader.

 

Jim Rembach: (11:39)

Well, you know, okay. So I think there’s also yet another issue because we’ve gotten into this whole attack first world. Uh, and when we have all these social connections, it’s, it’s so easy to do that and the whole fake news thing and all of those components. So, so, I mean, how can a leader actually be more mindful and cognizant, you know, of these types of things and prepare for them because crisis is going to happen. However, I think it seems that most people don’t prepare for the crisis to happen. Uh, they just kind of let it happen and then they try to react. And by that time, like you were mentioning, it’s just too late. So how can people prepare better so that they don’t have that gap and they don’t stumble when it comes to a responding?

 

Jack: (12:31)

Well, two things I’ll talk about real quickly. One is that in any organization and smaller organizations, I think struggle with this. But the larger organizations who can afford to have people listening to whatever social media is occurring around an organization, that whole ecosystem, um, those people have the responsibility to tell their leadership, you know what, we’re hearing about something out there and it’s not good and people have the wrong perceptions about what we’re doing or a new product that we introduced or something, you know, that we didn’t do in, in their minds. So that’s good information for the leader to say, okay, if that’s the perception of us right now, I’m outside in the external world. It’s probably also the perception inside the company. So we have to do something about that. We have to change that, that we have to address, that communication can be part of addressing, but action is also part of it.

 

Jack: (13:30)

You know, do we have to change our strategy? Do we have to shift something internally? Um, in terms of preparing for something that can really be a bad event, maybe even a catastrophic event for a company normally call the crisis. The other way in which leaders and their organizations can prepare is to make sure that a lot of people are vigilant about things that could happen, that have a high probability of happening. They can look at other organizations around them in their own industry or other industries and say or ask, can that happen to us? Do we have that same problem? Because often a crisis starts out as a smaller issue that’s been ignored, neglected. You know, human beings have a tendency to say, well geez, maybe this will go away or maybe I can fix this before my boss and his boss knows about it. And so you want to have the kind of open environment where people are willing to tell leaders, you know, I see a problem here, I see a potential crisis for us. Let’s get out in front of this. And then it’s the leader’s job to organize people to try to resolve that before it turns into a really serious problem. And that’s often the things that we, in the media that turn into big blow ups, many of them could have been prevented.

 

Jim Rembach: (14:58)

Well, and in the book, I mean, you talk about the 10 commandments of crisis management. And if you can, I’d like to run through those real quick please. So you have the truth always surfaces and you alluded to that a second ago. Own the crisis and demonstrate progress. Um, you know, you can never gain friends and how wise and have a kid during a crisis only before. So you always have to be doing that preparatory work, control the communications agenda as much as possible. Uh, and then you talk about never make predictions or raise false expectations about anything out of your control. Speed matters. You talk about that too. Reputation is a corporate asset and employees can be in the best position to spot those trends. You mentioned that as well and it says avoid finger-pointing. Uh, and then cover ups kill companies. And we’ve seen all of these things play out just within the past probably 12 months. Uh, in a book you just have a slew of both positives and negatives of people who’ve actually managed these 10 commandments. But when you start talking about, you know, communications, you mentioned that it could be a weapon. What do you mean by that?

 

Jack: (16:15)

Well, communications is very powerful and in this day and age with all the platforms and all of the technology that organizations have at their, at their availability, and the most sophisticated organizations today are very active in social media, both listening and talking to their many stake holders. They’re very active, uh, in television, in podcasts. Um, they’re just out there all the time. Um, so many organizations have millions and millions of people paying attention to them. They may not just be employees and customers, they might be investors, they might just be interested parties out there, government officials and so forth. So talking to them on a daily basis or on a regular basis in good times and bad times, I think becomes a very powerful asset for an organization because organizations are often criticized for not communicating enough or not communicating the right things or not opening up lines of communications as they say.

 

Jack: (17:30)

And going back to one of my 10 commandments, it’s absolutely true that, um, if you think you can just sail along in life as a person or as an organization and think that once you get into your own crisis, you can suddenly rally around you to your support. When you haven’t been doing that for years and years, you’ve got a big problem. You know, you don’t have those relationships in place. And that’s why I think that, uh, the really sophisticated organizations out there, they could be global, they could be national, but they’re constantly paying attention to communities. Okay, who do we need to have relationships with? How do we do that? Who meets with them? Who talks to them? What kind of communications channels do we have? What kind of content are we sharing with them? And I think they’re the ones who stand to have a better experience if they actually get into a crisis situation where more, more people give them the benefit of the doubt, they’ll trust them. Trust can go away really quickly though, if you’re doing the wrong things in a situation.

 

Jim Rembach: (18:41)

Well, and I’ll ask it as I was going through this book, it stood out to me for several hours, you know, in several different instances. And you were talking about the whole employee engagement thing. Um, you know, the, the customer, you know, engagement elements, um, you know, several different factors associated with growth, disruption. I mean, there’s all of these things are we see displayed out, you know, in, in, in our economy. Uh, and, and you then you go back to this whole communication is that the root of all of this, you can’t have a good culture. You can’t have good employee engagement. You can’t have good customer engagement. You can’t have a good reputation without the communication element.

 

Jack: (19:17)

Right? And I believe that, uh, today’s modern leaders of many of them do understand that, but I think that, uh, they underperform a bit in that obligation. Some are better than others. And one story I like to tell that’s in the book is, uh, I was speaking a few years ago to a business class in New York city at New York university. And at one point I asked the class, you know, how many of you want to be entrepreneurs? And a lot of hands went up, how many want to work in financial services and so forth. And then I asked how many of you want to work in communications? And one lady kind of shyly put her hand up. And my answer was you’re all going to be in communications. You may not know that now, but no matter what you do, um, in your career, in your profession, you’re going to be communicating every day and you better do it. Well now business schools don’t necessarily emphasize that some do more than others but most haven’t as part of their curricula. So I think it’s very important for people to understand that it relates to everything. You know, as you mentioned, reputation, culture, trying to be a high performance organization, trying to be believable and trusted by consumer basis, all of that.

 

Jim Rembach: (20:35)

But in addition to what you were just saying right there, um, when I start thinking about the full communication element, uh, is that you, you are, there is a very important element that we often see happens and that is, and I’ve been talking about this a lot lady is a disconnection between the head and the feet. So in other words, you know, the very, very top of the organization, uh, and by the time all of this stuff gets filtered down to the front line, it’s very different, very different intent, very different interpretation, you know, and it’s that old drill and things start getting disconnected. So how, how can we ensure that the alignment takes place and gets filtered from the top all the way to the front line?

 

Jack: (21:19)

Well I think that’s where modern communications tools come in. But then there’s some old old fashioned methods as well. I mean there was a time where they used to talk about cascading a communications where I would start at the top with the leadership and then it would go down level by level, supervisor to employee and so forth. And you know, there was a lot of theory that uh, people trust their supervisors with information a lot more than they trust the CEO or the top of the company, uh, because those are the people who, uh, hire them, pay them, supervise the amount of daily basis. But the best way to do this and a lot of CEOs I think have perfected this is really in two ways. One is the less personal way of talking to an organization at the same time video streaming. So you have 40 locations all around the world.

 

Jack: (22:14)

You try to deliver the same message repeated over and over and make sure that the people on that particular, um, streaming or you know, town hall meeting or wherever are hearing it directly from you and then they’re hearing it directly from their supervisors. They’re getting the same message, the same direction, the same information. Obviously people add things to it, they nuance at, they’ll say, well, the CEO might’ve said this, but you know, our job is really to do that. That’s always going to happen. But I think that is one way of doing it. The other way of doing it frankly is, and this relates really to culture, our leaders who do it by walking around their organizations and doing it in person. And that’s really a time consuming job obviously, because that means that if you have many stores, many locations, uh, you, you have a big corporate headquarters, you could be spending all your time doing that. But spending some of your time doing that is very useful and productive because not only are you having a chance to meet with your people, but they’re telling you things that, and they’re offering insights to you that are very important to the organization because they’re hearing it from the front lines and you might not be.

 

Jim Rembach: (23:32)

Yeah, I think that for me, you talk a lot about, um, you know, really the emotional intelligence aspects of all of this. And you talk about empathizing with the customer, empathizing with the employee, empathizing with your audience. I mean all of that about really heightening, you know, your whole emotional intelligence and all of this. And so when you start going back to the whole neuroscience and all of that, while you claim, you know, that you’re not a neuroscientist, I see all of these elements coming into play. And so when you start looking at the pillars of communication, what would you say they are?

 

Jack: (24:03)

Well, I would say number one, um, you have to have a mission and a purpose. So any new CEO I think has to revisit that. Uh, even in very successful companies, you know, is our mission very clear? Is our purpose really clear? And these days there are high expectations on organizations, whether it’s government, whether corporations not for profits, uh, from their constituents on what, what is their purpose and are they really delivering on it? And is that the right purpose? So I think that’s one being very clear in defining what’s the mission? Why does this organization exist in the first place? Even though maybe it’s been around for a hundred years or even longer. And then it’s, um, what do we want our people to really do for the people that we’re trying to serve out and making sure that we can equip them not only with the right communications, but the right tools and the right actions and the right products and so forth to really do their jobs to the best of their ability and serve the communities that they’re trying to serve.

 

Jack: (25:15)

So I think that’s another pillar of the communications platform. And then there’s certainly, you know, what differentiates us from others, and that’s a big thing today because so many organizations can look alike sound the light in how they present themselves to the world. But how do you really differentiate yourself? And I think that comes down to what really does make us different. What’s in our DNA that makes us a little different from that company, these other guys over here. And that’s something that I think a lot of organizations struggle with. Really trying to find those key points of differentiation.

 

Jim Rembach: (25:55)

You know that reminds me of a conversation I had with somebody at a trade show. I walked up to their booth. They were a business process outsourcer. I saw all these statistics in their GE, in their global footprint of all their locations and things like that. And I said, okay, so I, you know, I can go and there’s 10 other companies like you just hear, I said, what, what, what makes you different? And so then he starts rolling into these statistics and these, and I said, well, wait a minute. Then he started telling me this story about a wa then down in South America, they actually have a milk subsidy program for their employees because milk’s like $5 a gallon. They play their employees three 50 an hour and they even give these coupons. So family members and so their people can buy milk. And it’s a huge, uh, employee engagement opportunity for them. Um, because it really also, they, they piggy back that, you know, with our overall focus on employee. And, and I told him, I said, you know, if it was me and somebody came up to me and they said, what do you guys do? I said, the first thing out of my mouth would be we subsidized. No, he goes, what? I said, that’s your differentiator. I said, otherwise you’re just like the other 10 that are sitting up here. And he goes, well, I thought about that and my boss told me, I shouldn’t say that. Squash an opportunity.

 

Jack: (27:09)

Right. Well, and the other part of that is sometimes you have to dig deep in the organization to keep finding data points that bolster your story of why you’re different. Um, but again, it’s in the eyes of the customer or it’s the eyes of the stake holder, uh, who will actually say, you know what, based on what you’ve told me and the picture that you’ve given me of your organization, you are a little different and I’m willing to buy more of your product or I’m willing to be more passionate about being one of your loyal customers. So it’s a constant struggle. It depends heavily on research. It depends a lot on a term that you used about emotional intelligence, compassion, not only from the leader but from the organization. And the leader can set the tone. But if the leader says, look, it’s our job to find out not to just sell products to people, invent them and innovate them and improve them, what do they really need? What do we really need? And that requires a lot of research. And I think some of the best companies out there, especially conclusive consumer companies have said, we literally almost have to live in their homes and see how they use our products or what they need or what’s frustrating them. And then we can finally understand and be empathetic about how can we serve them better?

 

Jim Rembach: (28:31)

Well, definitely that whole ethnographic study area is booming, uh, when you start talking about customer experience. But, uh, that’s a whole nother episode. But I mean, when you start looking at the things associated with this communication at the core, uh, man, we need a whole lot of focus and inspiration. And one of the things that we look at on the show or quotes and your book is just full of them from global leaders, both in the public and private sector. But when you start talking about a quote that inspires you, do you have one or two that you can share?

 

Jack: (29:00)

Uh, gosh, there’s so many, but um, I’ve been a big fan of Winston Churchill. So many of the things that we’ve sent Churchill has said about leadership and about, um, trying to use communication to get people to do something, whether it’s fight a war or change the economy in, you know, 20th century Britain was really important. Um, another quote in the book that really stood out for me was Jack Welsh, who is a very respected, uh, business leader and has been a business coach ever since he gave up being a CEO of general electric. Um, he said you can’t things enough in your organizations for them to stick. Uh, I think he might’ve said you have to repeat things a thousand times and repetition does matter a lot in communication. That’s probably why during election time, you know, you see the same commercial 17 times in an hour for those who can afford to put those commercials on air because, uh, there is a, a cognitive theory that people have to see a message, you know, seven, 10 times before it really starts to stick in their brains. So, um, I think that was a very good quote. And, and the truth is, um, I lead many of my chapters with quotes from people that I thought were compelling to those specific, uh, topics, whether it was culture, whether it was being part of, uh, the narrativity of a company, whether it was, you know, how to offset risks and deal with crisis and so forth.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:37)

I’ll end with that inspiration. Sometimes we have to find it ourselves, you know, we, and we on the show, we talk about, you know, times when we’ve gotten over the hump, you know, when we’ve had that lesson and that learning and it’s hopefully put us in a better direction. Is there a time that you’ve done over the hump that you can share?

 

Jack: (30:53)

Yes. Um, there was certainly a time where, um, I was in a, a situation with a client who was in a crisis and um, obviously they were in some state of denial cause they didn’t really believe that what had cross caused the crisis came from one of their plants, one of their factories from their products and had to sit in a room with, you know, the senior leadership who cared a lot about their consumers and about delivering the best quality products, but were not prepared to take the real actions in the speed that they needed to, to reassure the public and to reassure their customers and others that they were going to do the right things. And it turned pretty combative and argumentative, uh, especially with the CEO. And I had to be both the, the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also kind of the peacekeeper in the room to make sure that we weren’t going to lose control of the situation, that people weren’t going to start blaming each other and walking out of the room and so forth.

 

Jack: (32:00)

Um, that’s happened more than once. But I remember in this particular instance, it was a very, very tense time and everyone’s blood pressure was up and everyone’s pulse rate was up. And the main thing in a situation like that, as a person, several people have to keep calm. You have to keep calm and make decisions and make them as quickly as you can with the best information you can and just keep going. You know, I think there was a quote that when you feel like you’re in hell, you have to just keep going, keep walking through it.

 

Speaker 2: (32:35)

So the whole persistence and resilience piece, I mean, I think it’s key in all of us, but however, there’s many times where, you know, a person’s career has come to an end, you know, because of this failure of communication. And even you cited a statistic talking about, uh, from I think 2017 saying something like 900 plus CEOs are either terminated, uh, had to be, you know, um, or had to resign. Um, and I know, so when you start talking about all of this issue as far as communication, do we see a time by which that number is going to decline or are we going to continue to see that rise? Uh, and until, you know, a whole generation essentially decides to retire, right?

 

Jack: (33:24)

Well, of those 9oo in 2017 or of some in the past year who have had to give up their jobs as leaders, some of them did stem from communication mistakes or things that they did that they tried to cover up with the wrong communication. Instead of trying to own the problem, live up to it and say, yes, I’m going to have to move on. I made a mistake here. There’s been a few examples of that recently. The CEO who just left McDonald’s who said acknowledged that he had violated company policy. He made a mistake. He apologized for it, and he’s out of a job. Others are out of jobs strictly for performance or because their shareholders or the, or other investors don’t think that they’re doing a good job and their boards of directors, uh, show them the door and bring in someone else as a leader. So I don’t think it’s gonna stop happening. I don’t think it’s going to decline because the expectations on organizations these days, especially those that are publicly traded and, uh, have so many people dependent on them. Um, the expectations are extremely high and they’re almost daily expectations.

 

Speaker 2: (34:41)

Well, in the book you talk about communication being a lubricant of your leadership and I liked the way that that was actually put together, but when we start talking about, you know, the book we’re gonna start talking about your life’s work, what you’re doing now at jackknife PR, I have to imagine that you have, you know, several goals, but if you, if you can really focus in on one, what would be one of your top goals?

 

Jack: (35:01)

I think my top goal with this book and what I might do with whatever runway I have left in my consulting career is to keep impressing, especially on a new generation of leaders who are much younger than me. This is important. Communication on a daily basis is important. And as I said in the title, I think it is a management function. It’s a strategic function of organizations. It underscores the credibility of not only you, the person, but also of the organization itself. And if you do it right, it can enhance performance. So I keep talking about it and offering my advice on how to do it and how to do it right because leaders today are so busy, um, you know, their hair’s on fire all the time. They’re dealing with 18 things every hour. And um, when someone says, well, you know, you’ve got to communicate better, they kind of take that for granted. But it’s the how and the how is often accomplished by the people around them who are helping them with that.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:06)

And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:13)

An Even Better Place to Work is an easy solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award, winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com board slash better.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:33)

Okay Fast leader Legion it’s time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, Jack. The Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m gonna ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust and rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Jack Modzelewski are you ready to hoedown?

 

Jack: (36:54)

Yes, I am.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:55)

All right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

Jack: (37:00)

Uh, time. I think, uh, we’re all constrained by time and uh, I’m just the type of person who likes to stay on top of so many things. And it seems like there’s not enough time in a day to do that.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:13)

What is the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?

 

Jack: (37:16)

It was no matter what happens, especially in bad times, maintain your confidence, uh, keeps smiling to your people around you, keep challenging them and make sure that, uh, they never look at you and say, wow, I’m, you know, this is the end. Um, it should really be the leader who keeps people going in any situation and gets them through it and inspires them to the next level.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:43)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Jack: (37:47)

That, um, I’ve always been fairly direct with people. Um, when a client asks me to give advice on a problem once I analyzed it, once I talked to people, I’d say, this is what I think you’re going through. I think this is the issue. I think this is how people see it from the outside and this is what you should do. So I’ve always been very direct in the advice that I’ve given.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:10)

And what is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Jack: (38:13)

The opinions of others. I don’t know if that’s a tool, but having those relationships where you can bounce your ideas, your, your, uh, your feelings about things off of other people, your intuition and say, what do you think, uh, would you do it this way? When you get advice from other smart people, um, it really makes a big difference. You can never come up with all the right solutions on your own.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:41)

And what is one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course. We’re going to put a link to Talk is Chief on your show notes page as well.

 

Jack: (38:50)

Um, I’ve read, read so many great books in the last few years. I really like two books by politicians or government leaders from different parties. One was Worthy Fights by Leon Panetta who was a hero of mine and one was by John Casick, a Republican and a longtime governor. And Congressman has booked Two Paths because they weren’t just about government and politics, they were about leadership and a lot about communication and motivating people.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:20)

Okay Fast Leader Legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to www.fastleader.net/jackmodzelewski. Okay, Jack, this is my last Humpday Hoedown question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have the knowledge and skills that you have now and you can take them back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

 

Jim Rembach: (39:43)

Uh, if I went back to being 25, the one scale I would take is to talk to people who are much older and wiser than me and take their advice very seriously and compile that and use that as part of my own world vision and my compass.

 

Jim Rembach: (40:01)

Jack I had fun with you today. How do people get in touch with you?

 

Jack: (40:04)

Uh, they can do it by going to jack@jackknifepr.com or just go to my website www.jackknifepr.com

 

Jim Rembach: (40:14)

Jack Modzelewski thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and the Fast Leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

 

The post 252: Jack Modzelewski: Talk is Chief appeared first on Fast Leader Show Podcast.

]]> Jack Modzelewski Show Notes Page Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and ... Jack Modzelewski had to be the advocate for what had to be done and the counselor, but also a peacekeeper in the room when the CEO turned combative and argumentative. It was time for speed and reassuring the public and customers they were going to do the right things.
Jack grew up in a Chicago suburb with his working-class parents and two older brothers. His father worked for in security for General Electric. His mother, a Polish immigrant, came to the U.S. before WW II. His parents wanted him to be a teacher. But Jack had larger ambitions when he graduated from the University of Illinois with a bachelor’s degree in communications.
Jack’s early job experience started at age 11, first delivering newspapers and caddying and then clerking in a wholesale goods business. As a teenager, he wanted to be a journalist, like one of his older brothers. He worked as a reporter on his high school and his university newspapers, and also college summers for a local newspaper.
After college his first job was an account executive for a prestigious New York ad agency founded by men who went on to serve as a governor and a U.S. senator, respectively. But Jack found the Mad Men world of advertising limiting, so he pursued his first love – journalism. He earned a Master’s degree in Journalism at Northwestern University. He then worked as an award-winning reporter covering government and politics in Illinois.   During that time, he also hosted a public affairs radio show on a Chicago hard rock station.
He made the transition to public relations when he accepted a job thinking he would “try PR” for a year. That was the first of his 33 years working for international public relations firms and advising dozens of clients. Jack spent the last 26 years of his agency career with Fleishman Hillard, a leading global communications firm.
Most recently he was president of the Americas with responsibility for FH’s largest group of regions and its 1,800 people. Earlier in his FleishmanHillard career he spent years as president overseeing its offices in Europe. At FH his teams won many prestigious awards, including a Gold Lion with client General Motors at the Cannes Festival for Creativity, and Global Agency of the Year from PRWeek. Jack has attended five World Economic Forums in Davos, Switzerland, and has spoken at WEF conferences on four continents.
Jack is now chief executive of JackKnifePR, which provides communication advisory services to corporations, start-ups, and non-profit organizations. In his book Talk is Chief – Leadership, Communications and Credibility in a High-Stakes World, Jack shares with current and future leaders his life-long experiences advising organizational chiefs on messaging, media, marketing, crisis management, and stakeholder relationships.
Jack also serves his community as the board chairman of the Better Government Association and is a co-chair for Northwestern University’s capital campaign. In 2015, he was inducted into the Medill Hall of Achievement at Northwestern.
Quotes and Mentions
Listen to @JackKnifePR1 to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet 
“I don’t think leaders really think in those terms that 90% of their day is spent talking and communicating.” –